Pistons At Bucks ~ October 19th, 2005

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Pistons At Bucks
October 19, 2005 ~ 8:00pm
Resch Center, Green Bay, WI
TV: WB20
Radio WDFN

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Detroit Pistons 94 ~ Milwaukee Bucks 104

Game Photos from ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/photos?gameId=251019015)

Cruddy Game Log (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=detnews&page=nba/scores/final/P151876.htm)
Micro: This game had the worst coverage ever.

Box Score (http://www.nba.com/games/20051019/DETMIL/boxscore.html)

Scoring by Quarters
Detroit --- 27 20 17 30 94
Milwaukee 33 20 23 28 104

Ford Fires Up Bucks

GREEN BAY, Wis., Oct. 19 (Ticker) -- If T.J. Ford is going to score like this, the Milwaukee Bucks may be going places this season.

Ford scored 19 points and handed out nine assists to lead the Bucks to a 104-94 preseason victory over the Detroit Pistons at the Resch Center.

Recap from NBA.com (complete version) (http://www.nba.com/games/20051019/DETMIL/recap.html)

WOW!

TJ Ford is back. Man, I forgot the wheels he has.

there are no live stats other than the team scores on the web for this game, so any comments, player stats, etc, will be much appreciated.

webz,

Just my impressions, so no one jump on me please.

The Pistons look a lot slower than the Bucks in the first quarter.

J-Max and Darko saw some time with the starters, J-Max looking lost, and Darko looking like he hasn't warmed up yet.

Rip pushing the ball like mad, Chauncey taking some jumpers and the Pistons (as well as the Bucks) with several 3 pointers.

Play of the quarter was a look away scoop alley-oop pass on the break from TJ Ford to Desmond Mason.

One time down the floor, Bogut just grabbed Darko and spun him away from rebounding position. Bogut looks a little ungainly, but he is hustling and competing.

Pistons give up 33 points in the quarter, 33-27 Milwaukee.

Second Q just started, Bucks on a run, 39-27 Milwaukee.

Micro, Thanks for the update. Come on Pistons, wake up!!!

Ironic. I'm blacked out over here.

yeah thanks for that. i agree, i don't think bogut will win any awards for pretty basketball.

who's done the scoring so far?

darko is playing like crapola. :frusty:

Nice sequence with the bench, maxiell offensive rebound, passout to Acker, drive and dish to Evans in the corner for a triple.

Complete second unit on the floor around the 9:00 minute mark.
Acker, Dupree, Evans, Darko and Maxiell.

Maxiell grabbing boards, finding his way to the ball and using those long arms to corral it. Evans has looked good on his opportuities to hit jumpers, and Acker decent finding Dupree on a fast break finishing with a dunk. You can see that Acker doesn't have a lot of chemistry with the other players on the "Kid Line".

The Pistons were climbing back into the game but sloppy play and an offensive foul by Acker quickly let the lead slide back to 7.

Evans and Dupree are the only reason the Pistons are still in the game.
This doesn't look like a game the Pistons are taking too seriously, and could probably best be titled, "The battle for the 15th roster spot".

To be honest, it looks more like a scrimmage for the Pistons and a semi-serious tune-up for the Bucks. Milwaukee's second unit is much better than our 10~16 guys but it's mostly ugly ball through the second.

[Edited] Halftime score is 53-47 Bucks. Both teams scored 20 points in Q2.

If anyone is wondering, Darko has been really quiet coming up way short on a jumper and consistently being a little out of position (or mis-timing his jumps) on rebound opportunities.

Oh yeah, and Dan Gadzuric looks like Andre the Giant but smaller and with buggier eyes. Poor man's Ben Wallace though. All hustle.

Note: please don't expect a lot of clarity or proper grammar. I don't have time to watch, type and eat so I am compromising on the typing. :ohwell: Sorry. Update halftime score 53-47? Dang, I must have lost track. Updating 2nd quarter cap.

My quarter-caps are mostly written as stuff happens so that would explain why the beginning may not satisfy the end. I'm not looking at the big picture. I have blinders on.

Who scored? In the second it was mostly Evans/Dupree/Acker. In fact, I'm not sure that Darko or J-max scored at all. Evans & Acker each have a 3. I think CB has two 3s and Tay has at least 1. Bucks are PWNING us in the paint though.

My first impression of this offense (with the starters) is BLECH. Not worse or equal to last year, but certainly not worth a rave review (yet). Too many jumpers. Waaaaaaaay too many.

3rd has the starters back in. About 4 minutes left.

Sheed had a tip to myself rebound off of a Tayshaun missed 3, and just flushed it with a one handed and flat footed power jam from under the basket.

Ben also hit a near three pointer earlier in the quarter, but just turned over the ball on a shotclock violation as he is getting too cute with the ball on the offensive end.

TJ Ford still looks awesome splitting a Chauncey(?) and Sheed trap on the baseline to complete a reverse layup.

Michael Redd is a chucker to the nth degree. If his shot was on tonight, the Bucks would be up by more than 10. Much more maybe.

Bogut checking in again this time for Ervin Johnson. 3:20 to go.

Milwaukee 76-64 mostly starters on starters.

Crap for Pistons totals, but TJ Ford has 17, Maurice Wiliams has 16 with 4 assists in 17 minutes.

Exciting play at the end of the third, Evans hits a three after a Maurice Williams trey. The Bucks advance the ball quickly as time is running down, TJ Ford penetrates to the top of the key and shoots a leaner, which rolls off the rim to a streaking Dan Gadzuric who two hand dunks it all in one motion. Too bad he was 2 tenths of a second late on the clock.

It sounds like I am a Buck fan. I am not. It's just that the Pistons are not making any hustle plays and Milwaukee is playing for pride (and hence, is a lot more fun to watch with the ball).

Hunh. Postgame Bill and George on the court, looks like they had to write a new script, because the game sucked.

Must be the first game they don't mention Darko. he did have one really nice play though, blocking the Turkish kid that Tony Ronzone and Chad Ford went Mosque hopping this summer to see. Ilyasova (sp?)

I'm out like a team that is not very good and barely makes the playoffs only to be defeated by a better team. This will all occur in the first round.

Lindsey Hunter's presence is clearly missed playing against these small PGs. Chauncey just coasts the pre-season, and no one behind him can defend. Acker is decent, but makes tons of rookie mistakes.

Transition D sucked, and there were to many turnovers = not a good combo.

that T.J played well today. I've been pullin' for that

..too bad it was at the expense of our team. :(

Sounds like we didn't really get up for this game.

I gotta agree with that. Both teams worked on different things.

Milwaukee worked on winning (no joke) and Detroit looked like it was just playing an exhibition and testing roster spots.

I thought Glyniadakis was not as slow as advertised, but as the new Human Victory Cigar is not getting anywhere near enough time to make a case for himself and mostly runs around like a chicken with his head cut off (seen that for real once, it's crazy!).

Acker was steady, there were lots of turnovers caused by poor execution and lack of movement. It seemed like most of the second string were sleep walking at times and didn't have the benefit of first unit chemistry to make up for that (first unit was just funnin' around for the most part).

J-Max was impressive late, bulling his way to the basket and absolutely terrorizing the rim. I am so anxious to see how he develops over the next 2 years. That kid is a keeper. Joe wasn't kidding when he said that Maxiell has Pistons DNA. He's just a baby Piston at this point.

Evans was quite good. He could have really benefitted from having Arroyo or Delfino on the court with him (DNP along with Dice and Davis). I think his jump shooting was solid enough to create some space for Dupree to work closer to the basket.

Since no one else has a comment, and LanierFan will not be recapping the game as he apparently didn't get it, that's all from me. I'm providing my take more out of obligation than inspiration. It was slightly more exciting to watch than a scrimmage.

Before I go for good tonight, you have to give the Bucks props. TJ Ford was deadly on his jumpshots and his speed to the rim adds a dimension the Bucks missed last year. Bobby Simmons looks serviceable and Gadzuric is the kind of player who quietly puts up double doubles every second game.

Maurice Williams was very good as well, with Blaha and Laimbeer commenting that he could fill the combo guard (Vinnie Johnson) role as a 6th man.

Bogut looks like he is still trying to find himself and is nowhere near as polished as I was led to believe (don't drink the draft koolaid!). Nonetheless, he played hard and tried to get to the ball/rim when the opportunity presented itself.

I'm excited to see how Desmond Mason benefits from the return of TJ Ford. Des still doesn't have a jumper, but with Ford setting him up for finishes, this could be a career year for him.

Wow. A whole lot of great stuff from our bench. Evans can flat out shoot. But he is a zero on ball handling. Dupree did some good stuff. Some. And is a zero on ball handling. The two together are bad news for an offense. Anyone notice the couple times Amir Johnson handled the ball? This guy showed me more there on ball handling than Mo Evans for the whole game, and equaled Dupree for a whole game.

Back to Mo. Only missed one shot all night on the way to 20 points, and showed us all kinds of rebounding and defense. An absolute must for a rotation, and a guy who can come off the bench and score. Only if he could handle the ball just a bit.

Nobody is going to mention cutting Acker at this point. No way, no how. He showed us his scoring touch. A triple. A midranger. Went inside once. A floater. Considering he was virtually out there by himself, he did ok on ball handling too. His defense looks pretty good too, including rebounding. And 5 assists in the 2nd quarter. He is easily leading the team in assists per minute so far in his limited minutes this preseason. And this is without the benefit of getting much playing time at all before tonight.

I get the impression if you left Maxiell out there for a few games, he would start outdoing everybody. Those dunks were powerful. His midranger looks good. His rebounding is dynamite. What the heck more could you want? Well, I'd say he was at least a better ball handler vs. Evans. Evans has that range though.

Darko hit another outside shot, and one or two just rang out. Yep, after two years, you got to give that shot some time. Looks very promising. Made both free throws too, something I would like to see young Mr. Maxiell do just once. Something mental there. He can do better at the line.

Tay hit another outside shot. Otherwise, can't say much about the starters. CB played into the 4th just a bit. Still don't know what's up with that seeing CB with the 2nd and 3rd units. Some plays Flip is trying to teach the rookies and other young folk I guess.

It was one very exciting game with us getting a chance to watch the rookies play. After tonight, the only question is whether they want Hunter on the team or Dupree. Dupree can add depth for you at small forward. A guy who just might in some situations be the right guy for you. Hunter can give you some solid D. If played just as a defensive specialist, he could be quite valuable. My vote is for Hunter at this point. That improved shot, and the improved ball handling simply have not materialized as of yet from Dupree. Just really can't see him getting any minutes from Evans, and if he did get any minutes at all, it would be at the expense of Amir Johnson, who needs all the NBA experience he can get. Experience that will allow Amir Johnson to help the Pistons.

Finally, extensive burn for Maxiell and Acker. First impressions, no way Acker will not make the squad,and no way Maxiell will not make the regular rotation. Now, the unit out there for much of the 2nd quarter was Acker, Dupree, Evans, Maxiell, and Darko. Acker brought the ball up well enough, but there was no other ball handler out there besides Darko to help him out. Indeed, the best I saw the ball brought up was actually the one time by Darko, who still looks like a guard handling that ball on the open floor. Acker had a triple and an impressive block. Besides that, the obvious that nobody shot over him. Good solid D. Still not enough data about how well he can stop penetration as there have not been really much in attempts by an opposing guard to isolate and drive him.

Maxiell can flat out rebound. He boxes out well and uses those long arms, 7-4 wingspan, to practically suck that ball in flat footed sometimes. And he can go up for them too. Excellent impression of Ben in this regard. Absolutely you can see the possibility that Maxiell could get lots of burn at power forward (limiting Darko's and Dyess' minutes, and even cutting down on Sheed's and Ben's minutes.) But I still want to see him at small forward. I don't see any lack of speed with this guy despite all the size. I believe he hit one jumper of several taken.

Darko had an offensive rebound tip in, and otherwise is just simple a good defensive center. Just tough to shoot over. Not a lot otherwise. He attempted an outside shot and missed badly. On another, he was sure it was going in but it just did not quite. Hey, at least he is getting the reps in a game. Give that shot some time.

I have yet to see Maxiell really use that step back jumper I saw in preseason. Just lacking confidence I suppose. First time out really. Can't expect it all, but I like what I have seen just with the defense and rebounding.

Mo Evans is hitting his shots, going up for bounds, and blocking shots. Still no ball handling seen from him but man does he have some skills. Dupree is doing fine out there too, but again, no ball handling although he did manage to get one good pass in there for Evans. Between Evans and Dupree, Evans is impressing quite a bit more, but just maybe there is room for both. Hunter could still retire.

Prince hit some triples tonight, nice to see. Rip is hitting his midrangers and CB is hitting some shots. Nothing all that new with the starters. No Arroyo, Delfino, Dyess, Davis, Glyniadakis or Amir Johnson so far. Game back on.--PS Microwave, I really appreciate you doing a game report. Thanks. Keep it up.</B></B></B>

I get the impression if you left Maxiell out there for a few games, he would start outdoing everybody. Those dunks were powerful. His midranger looks good. His rebounding is dynamite. What the heck more could you want?

About 6 more inches would be perfect!!

Man, he would be unstoppable.

Here's hoping he has a late growth spurt.

Instead of the "Mini Ben Wallace" he'd be the "Massive Ben Wallace"

Before I do my recap (I taped it, took some notes), there's a couple comments I have to make in response to Lee...

Wow. A whole lot of great stuff from our bench. Evans can flat out shoot. But he is a zero on ball handling. Dupree ... is a zero on ball handling. The two together are bad news for an offense. Anyone notice the couple times Amir Johnson handled the ball? This guy showed me more there on ball handling than Mo Evans for the whole game, and equaled Dupree for a whole game.

no offense, but johnson touched the ball twice. there was no way to tell his ball handling skills...and evans/dupree seem perfectly fine to me with ball handling. they're not going to drive through the lane and 4 defenders, but they do what's necessary in the offense.

Indeed, the best I saw the ball brought up was actually the one time by Darko, who still looks like a guard handling that ball on the open floor.

again...Darko does NOT look like a guard handling the ball heh.

Okay my reply is going to sound skewed because I basically only wrote down the highlights and none of the bad things. Essentially I'm going to sound like Blaha doing a broadcast. :eyebrows: I only wrote stuff down about the 2nd and 4th quarters since there's really no need to discuss the starters. I even timestamped everything lol.

i'll start with a sweet 1-minute sequence (7:00-6:00) in the 2nd quarter. btw the 2nd quarter was basically the Ackers/Evans show.

6:55 - dupree sweet block on mo williams
6:51 - bell is holding onto the ball and evans just finds a way to grab it, and rips it away from him for the steal
6:25 - acker dishes a nice pass to a wide open evans for 2 points - while the ball is in the air, maxiel is out of position but shoves his butt into bell and knocks him backwards, and then gives him a little extra shove after the basket. he didn't have box-out position on the rebound...but he certainly created his own!!
6:11 - bucks mishandle the ball, acker completes an excellent no-look pass from halfcourt to dupree under the basket for a dunk - bucks call timeout

4:16 - bogut has an open lane to the basket running the ball upcourt, instead goes to pass back to guard, acker anticipates for the steal
3:22 - acker gets beat to the basket but blocks the shot
1:30 - evans has a suffocating 2-handed block (looked like volleyball)
1:08 - acker with another steal
0:40 - dupree jumps over bogut to snag a rebound
0:24 - acker drains a 3-pointer 2 feet from behind the line

2nd quarter - maxiel 6 rebounds, acker 5 points/5 assists

Again not commenting about the starters, except someone was mic'ed close to Sheed and we get to hear some gems...'god d*** rip!!' and 'ahhh sh*t!!', he also had a shaq-like dunk in traffic, and we found out ben is shooting 22% from the free throw line in the preseason.

4th quarter:

9:53 - mcdyess has a very ugly facial expression on the bench
8:06/8:00 - dupree and darko get a couple nice blocks

*sidenote* - evans commits 2 charging fouls and a couple bad passes in the 4th ... 5/6 shooting at this point but is trying to do too much

6:13 - acker good spin move and knocks down a 2 pointer

*sidnote* amir johnson kinda looks a bit like tracy morgan from SNL

4:16 - acker hits another tough shot - a floater from the free throw line
2:35 - maxiel sweet dunk in traffic
2:13 - maxiel block
1:50 - glynny takes a VERY ill-advised drive to the basket, throws up a random shot that misses
1:26 - maxiel another nice shot from the FT area

1:05 - this play warrants special mention. evans gets himself a nice block...in the meantime glynny LANDS on top of one of the bucks' players, elbow on his shoulder. after the elbow, he proceeds to FACEWASH the guy like tayshaun did to the one fan after his block on reggie in the '04 playoffs. THEN, he takes the guy down from behind and the guy falls on glynny. comedic genius that bill laimbeer certainly appreciated.

1:03 - maxiel yet again, goes under the basket and turns around midair to slam home a dunk, he's had a good final 3 minutes, he just abuses people and loves to go after rebounds

0:21 - evans knocks down the last of his four 3-pointers.

summary: evans 6/7 shooting (4/4 from 3, 4/4 from FT), 20 points total
acker: 4/6 shooting for 13 points and 9 assists
maxiel: 9 rebounds and 10 points

Okay since I only posted the good, here's the bad. The bucks KILLED us in points-in-the-paint, I think at half it was like 35-13? Whatever it was, it was bad. Acker played well but he still had quite a few rookie mistakes...telegraphed some passes that got stolen, sometimes lost his man on defense. Definitely some rookie mistakes made, but Acker and Evans looked great overall, and if Maxiel looked pretty good as well.

Okay my reply is going to sound skewed because I basically only wrote down the highlights and none of the bad things. Essentially I'm going to sound like Blaha doing a broadcast.


Again not commenting about the starters, except someone was mic'ed close to Sheed and we get to hear some gems...'god d*** rip!!' and 'ahhh sh*t!!', he also had a shaq-like dunk in traffic, and we found out ben is shooting 22% from the free throw line in the preseason.

9:53 - mcdyess has a very ugly facial expression on the bench



lol, Thanks for the nice recap Pumba. Only thing is...I don't remember Blaha ever saying this kind of stuff. :D

man i need a TV tuner and video editing software, i would so capture that facial expression. tayshaun accompanied it with a beautiful open mouth 'durrrr' stare

Both teams were working on different things. Even though the starters were off you know with our regular rotation that would have been a Piston win.

If its that important to them to get a pre-season win then well so be it. I am sure the Pistons will return the favor when the games count. Bucks almost lost a player with a knee collision.

I am glad Flip stuck with the script. This is a key point in a lot of players careers - Acker, Dupree, Maxiel, Evans. We need to keep seeing what they have.

Very encouraging stuff out there by Acker and Evans. I like Dupree, Dumars likes him. If Dumars likes him then why did he sign Evans? They duplicate each other as far as what the team needs out of them.

I posted in a different thread that Acker brings a new dimension as a combo guard who can play both guard positions as well as shoot 3's. So its good that he got some time out there.

What to do with Maxiel? He looks like he belongs on the team but where in the heck can he play at? Some of those dunks had such strength to them. Already I can at least say that Maxiel is an upgrade over Ham.

Thanks for the updates, everyone.

Keep it up, love the detail.

If any of you guys didn't hear it flip said he wanted to fix many things because he didn't like what he saw. GOOD NEWS, many people thought this guy was going to be soft on the players looks like he's going to be strict (in a good way).

We lost the game because of 22 turnovers. If the Piston players would not make so many lazy passes we'd probably have only around 10 or 12 TO's which would make the bucks do a lot worse on offense.

This is the first game i watched all the way, and from what I saw Alex Acker looks very good, i don't know why a lot of people think he will be the guy that gets cut. He had a very good game with 13 points, 5 boards, and 9 assists on 4-6 shooting. Maurice Evans did very well too with 20 points, and 4 boards off of 6-7 shooting and 4-4 from beyond the arc. This is the first game Darko struggled hope to see him shine against miami this saturday.

^^ yeah, i liked how Flip was pretty disappointed with the game last night. it wasn't the depressing/i'm-going-to-slit-my-wrists-now speech that LB used to give. Flip was a little more thoughtful in his responses regarding the team's shortcomings, and i appreciate listening to those details as a basketball fan.

i taped the game, so i'll watch it today. i'm excited to see Acker's PG play, since we keep hearing that JoeD is high on him.

It is hard not to like Max's aggressiveness and strength, but he has a way to go mentally to be a Piston I don't believe that there was one time that he got the ball and did not put it up regardless of where he was on the court.

I don't know about the Bucks but we were on the second half of a back to back which could explain the sluggishness of the whole team.

I am so happy they are back.

Go Pistons!!!!

It is hard not to like Max's aggressiveness and strength, but he has a way to go mentally to be a Piston I don't believe that there was one time that he got the ball and did not put it up regardless of where he was on the court.
He had to. He was the 3rd leading scorer (10), and leading rebounder (9) for the Pistons. Near double-double.

It may be Corliss syndrome but I for one loved his tenacity and reckless abandon pursuing the hoop everytime he got the ball. His game is not passing the ball around. It's attack, attack, attack. Punish the rim and defender. Force the issue with power. Without J-Max, we had no paint game whatsoever.

Did anyone see those slams? Brutality. I'm drooling at the prospect of seeing J-Max go at his fellow UC alum K-Mart. I wonder if this kid practices the way he plays. We might have to suit up Dice and Ben in those inflatable Sumo suits (http://www.bajainflatables.com/sumo/ssui3.jpg) or the IR could grow fast!

Pistons looked lazy last night, and TJFord looked like he was drinking 32oz espressos during commercial breaks, great to see TJ back, he can really legitimize the Bucks and with us , Indy, Chi & Clev, the central once again may be the best division in basketball top to bottom.

This indeed was a game where the organization needed to get some looks at players. Acker had a GREAT stat line running the point, has a smooth shooting touch. The issue I had with Ack at the point is that he solely runs it from the top and NEVER tries to make a play, this can indeed stagnate an offense. Ack often picks his dribble up too early too much, DAMN there has to be a happy medium between him and Arroyo. Acker might not ready for the NBA just yet, I honestly believe that if he went overseas for just one season that he would come back and easily compete for a 2nd string PG on at least a dozen NBA teams, much like Charlie Bell. All that said I feel as if Acker can really develop into a solid NBA player. CUT HIM!!!!! sounds harsh, but Ack is better than a IR PG listed as 4th on the depth chart behind CB, CA, & LH. The Det News is reporting that Joe knows if he cuts Ack about 4 teams will be there ready to pick hm up, and truthfully he deserves that opportunity, if Ack was 19, keep him, but he deserves a better opportunity than what the Pistons can give him right now (actually so does Dupree). Worse case scenario we cut him, another team signs him, and he's a FA next summer (because you know he's only going to get a 1 year deal) and we bring him in with a guaranteed contract, like we did Dupree last season. So long as Joe gives him the WE WANT YOU BACK HERE NEXT YEAR!!!! speech.

Man I want this kid to get some significant clock this season. There are going to be some games this year where I truely feel he could be effective. Dyess' post game is stricly fade away jumpers these days, he no longer gets the ball in the post and attacks the basket. I could see nights where we go with Maxiel instead of Dyess or Darko and he will give a teams backup PF nightmares all night long. On nights where we play soft teams that don't really want to bang, he can just bruise people. Now his height sometimes is an issue, but as long as he's not battling a 1st unit 6'10"+ froncourt player, he can hold his own and then some. I don't think that there is another player in the league coming off the bench under 6'10" that will be able to check this kids post game. Man if we can keep him and Darko together, and convince Maxiel to accept a Corliss type role on this team, WATCH OUT!!!!

Thanks for the scoop guys (missed the game)...
Just one question.... did our bench outscore their bench?

I'm interested in the bottom line net results.

Thanks for the scoop guys (missed the game)...
Just one question.... did our bench outscore their bench?

I'm interested in the bottom line net results.

Nope!!

Just noticed that there is a whole week before the next preseason game and it's against Dallas. This is an opp for Flip to show his stuff.

1) We just had an awful pre-season showing with bad shot selection, poor execution, poor energy, poor defensive rebounding and too many to's, way too much dribble penetration by the oponent.

2) He has a whole week to fix the problems above, how effective will he be.

3) We get to play a team we just lost to after the week is up. This is the most ideal time to display the corrections that should have been made over the cousre of a week.

Nope!!
Yep. 55-52. ;)

Just noticed that there is a whole week before the next preseason game and it's against Dallas. This is an opp for Flip to show his stuff.

1) We just had an awful pre-season showing with bad shot selection, poor execution, poor energy, poor defensive rebounding and too many to's, way too much dribble penetration by the oponent.

2) He has a whole week to fix the problems above, how effective will he be.

3) We get to play a team we just lost to after the week is up. This is the most ideal time to display the corrections that should have been made over the cousre of a week.

We do have a game against the Heat on Saturday... but your points are well taken (especially the dribble penetration)...
In a week we should have the final roster set... this gives em a week to play regular rotations and get the roles assigned.
Looking forward to the Heat game... sounds like Fatoine is coming off the bench... I'd love to see Sup-a-Dup tomahawk on his skull!
Wonder if Flip sticks with his youngsters.

I'm getting a bit tired of these and, judging by last night's performance, so are they players. Let's get the season started.

I would like to see true, regular-season game rotations for our next two games. Starters playing more minutes and reserves playing the minutes they will be getting. Then for the final one we can go back to playing the reserves heavier minutes as it falls on the second day of back-to-backs (I believe).

This is a helluva decision between Dupree and Acker. Not many teams have more than 15 NBA-caliber players on their squads, so I guess it's a good problem to have. ASB seems to believe Dupree has had the better showing but the P's may think it more important to have depth at the 1. I wonder, if Hunter were healthy, if Dupree would have a better shot. Right now, if either CB or CA go down, we're really in a bind.

I've been pretty impressed with the play of our bench overall. This team legitimately goes 12 deep with players that are ready to contribute this year, which is remarkable (CA, CD, Evans, Dyess, Darko, Davis, and Hunter off the bench).

However, I'm getting a strange sense that the team isn't quite ready to go, either offensively or defensively. That concerns me a bit because we have a tough early-season schedule, and we'll need to be ready. I don't want to dig ourselves another hole the way we did early in the season last year.

Just noticed that there is a whole week before the next preseason game and it's against Dallas. This is an opp for Flip to show his stuff.

1) We just had an awful pre-season showing with bad shot selection, poor execution, poor energy, poor defensive rebounding and too many to's, way too much dribble penetration by the oponent.

2) He has a whole week to fix the problems above, how effective will he be.

3) We get to play a team we just lost to after the week is up. This is the most ideal time to display the corrections that should have been made over the cousre of a week.

Actually the next preseason game is day after tommorow (Saturday) against Miami.:nod:

Evans was signed, I believe, with Wade in mind and to help our perimeter defense. The problem with Dupree is that it is hard to conceive of a solid role for him in the rotation. Many of our bench guys are showing they can play, but plugging them into productive (for wins and losses) roles may not be easy. Take Delfino. He should be handling the ball but that is what Arroyo is suppose to do. Delfino's shot is still iffy. I think Evans role should be as a defensive specialist and whatever offense we get is gravy. Take Darko. His offense is still not polished (probably because of lack of playing time). Early on, he too should come into the game as a shot blocker. Many other questions abound with the bench.

Someone disagreed with me last night on ballhandling of these two. Said it was good enough. But these two played 42 minutes combined, and got zero assists. Not good enough. These two were sharing guard and small forward duties, and did not manage a single assist between them in nearly a games worth of player minutes.

Another poster kind of said he just wanted the bottom line on whether our bench or their bench did better. But its not quite so simple. We had several bench players do very well, but the unit did not work well together. At least, not as well as it could have played. Acker was the only guard played with the subs who had any ball handling skills. Just not enough. I surely would have liked to see this same unit with Delfino in there instead of Dupree. I bet Flip would like to see it too.

I dearly love the fact that here we were in the 5th game of the preseason and the coach is playing two rookies extensively. Another poster seems to think we should start using the regular rotation players who will be seen in the regular season. But wait one moment. Who will those players be? Seems the better route is to keep auditioning people for roles. Getting the right people playing is far more important than establishing a rotation. Acker and Maxiell could end up being a large part of our rotation. If anything, maybe cut Dupree. Or at least realize no way he will earn regular rotation minutes at this point and just sit him on the bench; asking him to do just one thing the rest of the season: work on defense and be ready to play when and if needed. As far as his offense, pretty much limit to fast break dunks, his specialty.

Other than that, the guys who played the bulk of the minutes last night, plus Dyess, Arroyo, and Delfino, are the guys we will be seeing in the regular season, in my opinion. The only question I see is who plays in what units, and what roles will each player have. There is still a lot to learn there, and I do hope Flip starts working on this.

Evans has offensive game too he is very good at tipping in missed shots. He is very good at taking people to the hole, and he can step out and hit the jumper.

Someone disagreed with me last night on ballhandling of these two. Said it was good enough. But these two played 42 minutes combined, and got zero assists. Not good enough. These two were sharing guard and small forward duties, and did not manage a single assist between them in nearly a games worth of player minutes.

Another poster kind of said he just wanted the bottom line on whether our bench or their bench did better. But its not quite so simple. We had several bench players do very well, but the unit did not work well together. At least, not as well as it could have played. Acker was the only guard played with the subs who had any ball handling skills. Just not enough. I surely would have liked to see this same unit with Delfino in there instead of Dupree. I bet Flip would like to see it too.

I dearly love the fact that here we were in the 5th game of the preseason and the coach is playing two rookies extensively. Another poster seems to think we should start using the regular rotation players who will be seen in the regular season. But wait one moment. Who will those players be? Seems the better route is to keep auditioning people for roles. Getting the right people playing is far more important than establishing a rotation. Acker and Maxiell could end up being a large part of our rotation. If anything, maybe cut Dupree. Or at least realize no way he will earn regular rotation minutes at this point and just sit him on the bench; asking him to do just one thing the rest of the season: work on defense and be ready to play when and if needed. As far as his offense, pretty much limit to fast break dunks, his specialty.

Other than that, the guys who played the bulk of the minutes last night, plus Dyess, Arroyo, and Delfino, are the guys we will be seeing in the regular season, in my opinion. The only question I see is who plays in what units, and what roles will each player have. There is still a lot to learn there, and I do hope Flip starts working on this.

I have to respectfully disagree in a couple of areas.

Your definition of ball-handling seems to be a bit broad. You make a one to one comparison with assists and how one handles the ball which I think isn't accurate. Sabonis was not a great ball-handler, but he was a helluva assist man. I would think that ballhandling would be measured more by turnovers and the ability to get the ball up the court with plenty of shot clock. Having not watched a game yet, I can't tell you at this time what I think of Evans and Dupree's ball handling skills except I don't think they should be doing much ball handling in the first place.

On the topic of continuing to use the final games for auditioning talent, I don't think that is a wise strategy. Especially if you want to start the season on all cylnders. Unless your plan is to concede the first couple of games until the set rotation is defined, I can't see the logic in this approach. I think it is important for Flip to set the tone early with this season to gain the confidence of the fans, the management, and the players in his system. Otherwise it will be the beginning of a long line of excuses as to why we are having issues which I'm sure no one wants to hear at this point in time.

Thanks fellas I absolutely looked right past saturday's game against Miami, how I don't know.

As far as bench scoring, I didn't add up our bench players totals compared to their bench. I looked at the times of the game where bot coaches were playing bench vs bench (the 2nd and 4th qtrs) and the outscored us. If you just add up player pts we win, but both teams were mixing and matching starters and bench for alot of the game. So I'm wrong, but kinda right...if that's possible....ah what the......I WAS WRONG :P

:P
You were just using a different methodology. ;)

Actually, Maxiell and Darko didn't do much when they were in during the first Q. I thought that Milwaukee played the game to win (that's probably the thing they need to work on most, winning) and mixed up their lineup much more than the Pistons.

I have no doubt that if we played Dice, Arroyo, Davis and Delfino we would have won that game.

Still a little nervous that the effort seems to come and go at the halfway point of the preseason. I don't expect Tayshaun to leap into the stands or for Rip to take a shot in the face, but you gotta have pride and stop TJ Ford from running all over the place. He flat out embarassed some players last night.

On the topic of continuing to use the final games for auditioning talent, I don't think that is a wise strategy. Especially if you want to start the season on all cylnders. Unless your plan is to concede the first couple of games until the set rotation is defined, I can't see the logic in this approach. I think it is important for Flip to set the tone early with this season to gain the confidence of the fans, the management, and the players in his system. Otherwise it will be the beginning of a long line of excuses as to why we are having issues which I'm sure no one wants to hear at this point in time.

Yep!!! It's absotively posilutely time to get ready for the real thing. This is a new system and they need to know what works and what doesn't with the guys you will most likely be out there with. Plus it wouldn't be good to start the regular season coming off a string of losses if that can be avoided.

Plus I can't argue with Motown because he is a big time "STARTER" now with all of those posts!! Darth----> :P :first:<------Motown

I'll be curious to see how the bench is utilized this year. Most of what we've seen in preseason has involved subbing as a group-very little mixing and matching with the starters (a bit like the way Carlisle subbed).

Mixing subs with starters hasn't worked too well because they haven't played much together (really only Dyess played substantial minutes with the starters last year). Let's see if Flip tries to work a couple of bench players in with the starters in the next couple games. That should tip us off as to what he'll start out the season trying.

Yep. 55-52. ;)

Was the bench minutes similar for both sides?

very close detroit used their bench for 126, milwaukee 125. But thats with us not playing Dice, Arroyo, and Delfino. what i do know is that our other loss against dallas they played there starters a lot more than us.

Personally i think thats stupid you should try to get your bench players better, and see which players will make the team, and rotation.

MoTown Pride, by no means do I equate assists numbers directly with ball handling. I look at who handles the ball in a way that helps get the team a good scoring op. This could be feeding the post, getting the ball to a guy who forces the defense to collapse, freeing up yet another guy outside. The guy who can start a fast break. The guy who can pass the ball to someone who then has an advantage to drive inside. A whole lot of scoring takes place as a result of a timely pass that is not an assist. And of course, there are assists too, also part of ball handling.

However, if a guy is getting no assists, all preseason, this is just a hint that he can't handle the ball. In Evans and Dupree's case, just trust me, its not just the assist stats. Nothing they do leads to a teammate scoring. Instead, if they handle the ball at all, they either go for a shot or just bog down the offense. Or turn the ball over.

Now, Evans I like a whole lot. He just can't do the job in the ball handling department. As someone mentioned to me the other day though, if Evans could also handle the ball, he probably would be making more money than we could afford. So its a good thing in a way he is not perfect. We can, for cheap, use him for an excellent defender, and a shooter. Just can't expect him to drive that ball to the hoop and kick off for a neat assist. So far, just seems not to be his game.

Dupree shows a lot of promise as a defender. He is good at the end of a fast break. But in no area can he outdo Evans. This unfortunately includes ball handling. Dupree, for many teams, coud help. Just not ours. We can't put Evans and Dupree in the game at the same time cause that gives us too little ball handling. But does this mean Dupree is the one getting cut? Maybe, maybe not. There is still the possibility Hunter retires. Evans could get injured at some time during the season, and an athletic small forward like Dupree might come in useful, while Evans has been brought in to do what Hunter did best, guard guys like Wade.

i'm watching the game taped right now........no one mentioned that Darko tripped over his feet again. i swear, he got to lead the league in tripping over his own feet. i think he's gotten a lot more confident, but still thinks to much out there. he's still not 100% comfortable/natural out there.

MoTown Pride, different post on your other comment. Unless you know for sure what your rotation is going to be, no, its not time to start playing a set rotation. Yes, we know who the starters are going to be, and the starters do need to start to play more to get comfortable to Flip's system. But the bench? You can't tell me Arroyo has already solidified his spot over Acker, and no way you can dismiss the possibility of Maxiell breaking into the rotation.

Finally, I don't know what you thought about Larry Brown, but he got one thing right. When he comes in and installs his new system, he does not focus that much on wins at first. Getting the team playing right is given more emphasis early. With Flip, he has a new team for him, and he has a lot of players who might be able to help. Getting it right, playing the right guys in the right roles, is going to have a greater impact on our record at the end of the season vs. a few wins we might get from getting the wrong rotation sharp.

For one, having the wrong rotation will lose games vs. the right one. Worse, as the season goes on, and you see you blew it on the first try, you are going to have to shake things up. And lose games while you do maybe. Far better to get it right early.

As for respect? Dumars will appreciate a coach going about in a methodical manner doing things right. Flip has 9 years already in the league. Not a rookie coach that has to prove anything.

ok, i know LB isn't here anymore, but Darko needs to stop the catch and shoot at the college three point line like he's Michael Redd.

i'm watching the game taped right now........no one mentioned that Darko tripped over his feet again. i swear, he got to lead the league in tripping over his own feet.

LOL forgot about that...pretty hilarious.

on a sidenote, at the Pistons' Kickoff Party today, i got Team Rookie's signatures...glynny, johnson, acker, and maxiel on my Pistons hat. threw in arroyo on their for good measure. i'll sell it to Lee for $500, i mean that's a steal for those 4 rooke future hall-of-famers :eyebrows: :P

i'm watching the game taped right now........no one mentioned that Darko tripped over his feet again. i swear, he got to lead the league in tripping over his own feet. i think he's gotten a lot more confident, but still thinks to much out there. he's still not 100% comfortable/natural out there.

Flip said he was absolutely dead tired out there because of all the minutes/practice, and the fact that it was the 2nd of a back to back. He said Darko was giving him the "take me out" look a couple of times during the game, but he kept him out there as a sort of "gut check". And if you think about it he hasn't had much of any time off since the summer league began, so his legs are probably pretty worn out. Hopefully the day off today gets him ready for Saturday against Miami. I wanna see him throw down on Zo :nod:

After tonight, the only question is whether they want Hunter on the team or Dupree. Dupree can add depth for you at small forward. A guy who just might in some situations be the right guy for you. Hunter can give you some solid D. If played just as a defensive specialist, he could be quite valuable. My vote is for Hunter at this point.

Have we entered the twilight zone???!!! I thought I just read Lee saying that we should keep Hunter over another player!! Lee, have you really come over to become a Hunter fan like most Pistons fans have been for years, or was that just a mental lapse?

All in good fun Lee, just a little brain fart after reading countless posts of you classifying Hunter as a worthless scrub. In case you haven't noticed, Hunter is THE MAN in Detroit, and he will be on the squad as long as he wants to, from what I can see. The man is a defensive monster, and as epitomized in his quote from last year's Finals ("I ain't no punk"), the hardest-working guy on the Pistons besides maybe Ben Wallace. Ben and Lindsay are my favorite players exactly for that reason.

MoTown Pride, by no means do I equate assists numbers directly with ball handling. I look at who handles the ball in a way that helps get the team a good scoring op. This could be feeding the post, getting the ball to a guy who forces the defense to collapse, freeing up yet another guy outside. The guy who can start a fast break. The guy who can pass the ball to someone who then has an advantage to drive inside. A whole lot of scoring takes place as a result of a timely pass that is not an assist. And of course, there are assists too, also part of ball handling.

However, if a guy is getting no assists, all preseason, this is just a hint that he can't handle the ball. In Evans and Dupree's case, just trust me, its not just the assist stats. Nothing they do leads to a teammate scoring. Instead, if they handle the ball at all, they either go for a shot or just bog down the offense. Or turn the ball over.

Funny I always associated ballhandling with dribbling. When I say, "that fella got handles", I'm never referring to his passing ability. Based on your definition of ballhandling also being associated with passing ability and court awareness, I can see where you would say that the aforementioned players are not adequate. I guess I will just have to wait and see to explore how much they "bog down" the offense.

MoTown Pride, different post on your other comment. Unless you know for sure what your rotation is going to be, no, its not time to start playing a set rotation. Yes, we know who the starters are going to be, and the starters do need to start to play more to get comfortable to Flip's system. But the bench? You can't tell me Arroyo has already solidified his spot over Acker, and no way you can dismiss the possibility of Maxiell breaking into the rotation.

Sure, I grant you that. Starters play, those bench players that have not solidified themselves for the team need to continue to battle for minutes, those who obviously have no place on the team (Glynny) should be let go. No more expirementing of bizaree lineups.

Finally, I don't know what you thought about Larry Brown, but he got one thing right. When he comes in and installs his new system, he does not focus that much on wins at first. Getting the team playing right is given more emphasis early. With Flip, he has a new team for him, and he has a lot of players who might be able to help. Getting it right, playing the right guys in the right roles, is going to have a greater impact on our record at the end of the season vs. a few wins we might get from getting the wrong rotation sharp.

Actually I am a fan of Brown, although I have my criticisms of him just like anyone else. I loved Brown as a coach, but he is not the best person to use as an example...he has more excuses when things don't go right than Dennis the Menace. I think the goal of any team is to be ready before the regular season starts and the games "count". I'm not in favor of risking any victories when the battle for homecourt advantage could be the difference of a game or two. We need to start off immediately with some "W"s.

As for respect? Dumars will appreciate a coach going about in a methodical manner doing things right. Flip has 9 years already in the league. Not a rookie coach that has to prove anything.

Flip has SO much to prove dude. He has been unsuccessful in the playoffs for most of his career and he is replacing a Hall of Fame coach on a championship team. He's already instituted a zone defense on a team that has been commited to a successful defensive scheme the last 3-4 years. Losing several years in the playoffs with argueably the leagues best player on a team that your friend runs for the past 9 years is not a formula for an induction into the basketball hall of fame. This is Flip's chance to show that given a great team he can win the big one. This is his golden opportunity.

I will tell you this. If the Pistons start off dry and out of sync and sport an unimpressive opening record say.....3-7. Every ESPN basketball reporter, local Detroit columnist, the fan in the last row at the Palace, and big Bill Davidson will booooooooo his butt out the building. lol!

All that being said, I think Flip will rise to the occasion.

Sure, I grant you that. Starters play, those bench players that have not solidified themselves for the team need to continue to battle for minutes, those who obviously have no place on the team (Glynny) should be let go. No more expirementing of bizaree lineups.



Actually I am a fan of Brown, although I have my criticisms of him just like anyone else. I loved Brown as a coach, but he is not the best person to use as an example...he has more excuses when things don't go right than Dennis the Menace. I think the goal of any team is to be ready before the regular season starts and the games "count". I'm not in favor of risking any victories when the battle for homecourt advantage could be the difference of a game or two. We need to start off immediately with some "W"s.



Flip has SO much to prove dude. He has been unsuccessful in the playoffs for most of his career and he is replacing a Hall of Fame coach on a championship team. He's already instituted a zone defense on a team that has been commited to a successful defensive scheme the last 3-4 years. Losing several years in the playoffs with argueably the leagues best player on a team that your friend runs for the past 9 years is not a formula for an induction into the basketball hall of fame. This is Flip's chance to show that given a great team he can win the big one. This is his golden opportunity.

I will tell you this. If the Pistons start off dry and out of sync and sport an unimpressive opening record say.....3-7. Every ESPN basketball reporter, local Detroit columnist, the fan in the last row at the Palace, and big Bill Davidson will booooooooo his butt out the building. lol!

All that being said, I think Flip will rise to the occasion.

Motown, I agree with you 100%.

Flip has a lot to prove, but he definately isn't shying away from it. Taking over a team from a Hall of Famer that has been to 2 straight finals, in a city that LOVES its team isn't exactly flying under the radar.

I give him a lot of credit for not taking the easier job with a team with low expectations. This is a great opportunity for Flip to shed his "can't get it done in the playoffs" label.

I too think that he will rise to the occasion.

13 points ( 4-6 shooting ) and 9 assists in only 22 mins. Why is it that I am the only one impressed by that? Even the Detnews article today there was only a mention of him getting burned for 19 points and 9 assists by Ford but Billups was also on him.

Its only one game but to me rasises a lot of questions on who should be part of the rotation. I am starting to lose patience with Arroyo. Acker could be that elusive 3rd guard that Dumars has been searching for.

Yes I believe Acker did great, he at many times knew when to shoot and when not to. Acker did very well against one of their smaller point guards and scored whenever he wanted to.

MoTown Pride, hey, I am not going to write a book everytime I write a post. You sound like a lawyer. Of course, to make a good pass, first you got to dribble the ball, while under control and ready to make that pass, to the right place from which the pass must be made, all while protecting the ball. You have to know how to arrive at the right place at the right time to make the pass to the right person, just as that person gets to the right position.

Arroyo is a very good passer along with being a decent dribbler. Delfino is a dynamite dribbler with ok passing. Both end up making good passes.

Yes I believe Acker did great, he at many times knew when to shoot and when not to. Acker did very well against one of their smaller point guards and scored whenever he wanted to.

Especially considering it was his 1st NBA appearance in extended mins. Not a bad showing.

MoTown Pride, hey, I am not going to write a book everytime I write a post. You sound like a lawyer. Of course, to make a good pass, first you got to dribble the ball, while under control and ready to make that pass, to the right place from which the pass must be made, all while protecting the ball. You have to know how to arrive at the right place at the right time to make the pass to the right person, just as that person gets to the right position.

Arroyo is a very good passer along with being a decent dribbler. Delfino is a dynamite dribbler with ok passing. Both end up making good passes.

you don't have to dribble the ball to pass.

not a lawyer but thanks for the compliment. :)

Arroyo is one guy with a lucky year. One lucky year in Utah when all the stars alligned for him or whatever. Anyway I have not seen any of the hype realized for this guy.

Would not be so bad if he was making less but 4mil/season? Him and Hunter combining for around 7mil/season? For what?

The future is Alex Acker. Going on a line here but I can see Acker picking up most of the backup mins at the 2 guard positions by sometime mid-season.

Max,

Did you bump your head or something? Just a week or so ago, you thought we should cut Acker and keep Dupree. Now, after 1 preseason game with extended minutes, you want to move him up in the rotation ahead of Hunter AND Arroyo?

What next? Amir Johnson able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!!?! :P