At Cleveland December, 21st

TV - TNT 8:00PM


The Pistons take their new found bench strength to Cleveland in search of their first division win of the season. Detroit at the moment are percentage points ahead of the Cav`s for 1st place in the Central Division.

Drew Gooden and Varejao seemed to grab every rebound during the battles last year. This year should be different as DD and The Brahma meet Drew and Anderson.

Hopefully the Pistons will keep their composure as Lebron is given some freedom to do whatever he wants, however, he will need help to lead his team to victory, which he will not get on this night......

SHEED MUST BLEED Episode 10

Let's go as far as we can with out Sheed. Maybe he will come back with something to prove.
Free the Brahma.

Just heard on the radio that Sheed is cleared to play this game after practicing ok today. Flip says he should be good for up to 27 minutes.

Just heard on the radio that Sheed is cleared to play this game after practicing ok today. Flip says he should be good for up to 27 minutes.

I heard his WDFN interview today and they asked him about that. Flip said he meant somewhere in the later 20's mins wise, 27, 28 ,29 something like that. He also said that he leaves all decisions to Arnie Kander. Kander cleared Sheed so he will play.

Yeah Sheed decided he better get healthy quick before he gets the gored.

Pistons are still winless in single games this year (now 0 - 7). Will they break through in Cleveland? They had better get it together on singles as they only have 22 back to backs this year. LOL

:hoops:

Good thing Cleveland was on a back to back today. They lost to NJ.

I think we beat them by ten pt.

Local chnnel is going to have live game to-morrow morning and, as usual, recap at late night will be my only choce. :mad:

Come by the chat brofmfa!

I hope we come out focused. We need to be able to use that time off to our advantage...not count against us.

Chat is open....

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

1. On the road
2. Beat one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference
3. Excellent defensive effort
4. Another nice game by JMax
5. Dyess is warming up with his first double double? this year.
6. Nazr didn't get in foul trouble
7. Well balanced attack (7 guys with 9 or more points)
8. Excellent job on the boards
9. Great to have Sheed back
10. Playing the right way!!!

:hoops::hoops:

Pistons finally get their first non-back-to-back win of the season! Hmm...

Ugly game a lot of the way through, Pistons were up 57-55 after 3 quarters. The 3rd was only 15-14 in favor of the Pistons. The Cavs continued to stink it up in the 4th, but the Pistons finally came alive, going on a big run sparked by Chauncey finally hitting some shots. Dice actually came alive in the 4th quarter, finishing with 11 points and 11 boards. JMax had a HUGE 2nd quarter, including one mind-boggling dunk where he got clubbed by Gooden, faded away, and still dunked on him!

I'm really amazed by how bad Cleveland's offense was. Ilgauskas had a decent game, and Lebron got a few of his usual highlights, but everyone else for them was horrible. Hughes, Gooden, Sideshow Bob, and Damon were a combined 9-38 from the floor. Pistons shot 44% from the floor, Tay leading the way at 8 of 11, but Cleveland only shot 34%.

Sheed only played 25 minutes; as was reported before the game, he was probably going to get around 25-27. But Rip only played 29.

Slippy-Cap

An impressive win with shades of the Going to Work Pistons - Detroit did a decent job of keeping lebron from getting into the lane and limiting fast breaks. The highlight of the game was the Brahma in the 1st half. A couple of sweet jumpers and thunderous slams was punctuated with a throwdown on Gooden who got whistled for a flagrant. Sweet. However it was Rip who provided the majority of the pistons horsepower by rebounding, pushing the ball up and feeding tay for all manners of highlight reel goodness.

Blalock got a nice look at the point. I like the way he pushes the tempo and the ball moves more when he's in but still needs to make better decisions...and learn to shoot.

Delfino got some good minutes and rebounded well and played some nice D and got a stuff of lebron that was whistled according to the NBA's superstar rule. But he needs to learn to shoot.

Flip M. did he play?
Rip was the heart of the pistons. He is really aggressive and it pays off in multiple ways. He is a bona fide triple threat now.

Naz i don't remember much of him late in the game but early on he was pretty active. He needs to learn how to hold on to the ball. Had one nice post move. I think he's a great cleanup guy but the pistons don't post/ drive the lane enough to allow him to do those little things he excels at.

Sheed rebounding and interior D was good. 3 point shooting. When he hits its great. I still think he shoots too many no matter if its in the flow of the offense.

I liked Tay at the head of the zone. I think he had a great deal to do with lebron not being able to create havoc in our paint. had some sweet looking blocks.

Chauncey broke the game open in the 4th. The whole team heated up after him and just broke the game out.

We had a dupree sighting. He got a good o-board (was it his own miss?) and a short jumper. But he too needs to learn how to shoot.

The announcers said that the game had no personality and I agree. Both team did "just enough" to stay tight until the pistons were able to open it up. I had the feeling that the Cavs were reacting to us. A good game for pistons fans. And Maxiel needs to learn to shoot (freethrows that is)

Good recap slip, though I'd throw in some dap for Dice as well. He rebounded well for most of the game, though he was bad in every other facet until the 4th quarter, when he got it all together and helped spark the big Pistons run that put the Cavs away.

One of the most entertaining parts about this game (besides the win) was the commentary.

After Varejo (sp?) flopped as Chauncey was coming around the screen. They didn't call it, but when they were heading back he was like "nice flop" or "you like flopping" something to that extent.

And then after a bulls%it foul call, Sheed and Dyess were having a conversation at the FT line. Sheed was like it must be nice to be Lebron, getting all these calls, and Dyess was like i know right

Sheed pretty much sucked tonight, but i swear ball dont lie never gets old

LOL

1. On the road
2. Beat one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference
3. Excellent defensive effort
4. Another nice game by JMax
5. Dyess is warming up with his first double double? this year.
6. Nazr didn't get in foul trouble
7. Well balanced attack (7 guys with 9 or more points)
8. Excellent job on the boards
9. Great to have Sheed back
10. Playing the right way!!!

:hoops::hoops:

Amen Buddah.

Maxiell had the 2nd most FG's on the team and he only played 17 minutes. It is time to play him until he gets in foul trouble every night. Let's get some use out of a young guy before his contract is up.

Murray was really chuckin the ball early. Did Delfino even take a shot?

No matter how everyone does, I like these games where we just throw bodies at em. It keeps the energy level up and has got to be good for the confidence of the bench.

My random thoughts:

A GREAT game from the bench both in terms of minutes and production. And it wasn't even a back to back! We need more of these.

Only 2 starters with more than 30 minutes tonight.

J-Max has officially arrived. He truely is a beast. He has forced Flip to play him.

Varejao is a flopper. The league needs a diving rule like the NHL. All potential "flops" should be reviewed. A fine each time and a 1 game suspension for repeat offenders should do the trick. Crap like that is embarrassing for the league and the game. I only caught parts of the game but I saw a minimum of 2 blatant flops in the short time he was on the court.

The Flopping got me thinking about another problem that I see with basketball... the obvious drawing of fouls by the offensive player. What if there was a rule that any time the offensive player invites contact, it is not a foul? Why should it be a foul if they were seeking it out?

You could still pump fake and draw the foul going straight into your shooting motion. But these guards that jump into the defender should not get the calls.

Varejao really got embarrassed on that 2nd flop attempt though. ha.

Not sure what to make out of that game, if it was Clev not hitting any shots or the D or whatever. I will take it.

NBA.com: Pistons at Cavaliers Boxscore (http://www.nba.com/games/20061221/DETCLE/boxscore.html)

You just knew someone was going to take over the game in the 4th. Tonight it was the Pistons.

What is up with the bench? Or Flip playing them? What this team needed, just almost shocked that Flip is playing them. Really amazing to see Blaylock out there before Flip Murry. Maxiel continues to play great and Dyess even had a good game.

The Flopping got me thinking about another problem that I see with basketball... the obvious drawing of fouls by the offensive player. What if there was a rule that any time the offensive player invites contact, it is not a foul? Why should it be a foul if they were seeking it out?

You could still pump fake and draw the foul going straight into your shooting motion. But these guards that jump into the defender should not get the calls.

Great point. I totally agree. D-Wade is really bad for that.

What is up with the bench? Or Flip playing them? What this team needed, just almost shocked that Flip is playing them. Really amazing to see Blaylock out there before Flip Murry.

:pound: I couldn't believe it either. I turned on the t.v. when Blalock was in and was like "Who the heck is that?" I thought it was Acker at first and I was watching a repeat from an old game or something. :pound:

Then I saw J-Max & Delfino in as well and figured that Flip must have either been ejected or out sick.

I have a feeling that Joe had a little tete-a-twitch and gave Flip a little free advice.

"Flip, I advise you to start playing the bench if you want to remain employeed."

The Maxiel effect. Maxiel gets in the game and suddenly we become a fast, aggressive team. He energizes everyone. Even Dice woke up and played like Maxiel. If this guy is for real we could be in for a long ride this year.

Maxiell played a heck of a game (As usual). Once he starts hitting FTs (he was much better in college), he'll be unstoppable. If Dice gets his form back we'll have quite bench. He needs to be the 1st man off the bench simply to bring the energy he does early on.

Murray Sucks. Not much else to note. He's worse than Mo Evans. I get the feeling that Flip sees it too though.

Delfino can't score, but at this point I don't mind. He still has a big impact on the court with his rebounding and defense. Good to see that Flip seems to be seeing some of the other things he can do on the court now. Next step: Get him slashing.

Blalock was decent. Biggest thing is he defends and he keeps the ball moving. That's all I ask from him. I fear that when Hunter comes back he'll bring the bench back down with him.

Dice was Dice. FINALLY. Keep playing like that and we can get a core big-man rotation going of Sheed, Max, and Dice. With Nazr and Dale splitting the extras.

The Maxiel effect. Maxiel gets in the game and suddenly we become a fast, aggressive team. He energizes everyone. Even Dice woke up and played like Maxiel. If this guy is for real we could be in for a long ride this year.

If we are this excited to see some new guys bringing some energy can you imagine the impact it has on the other players? Guy like Maxiel comes in and totally changes the way the Pistons were playing inside. Even inspired Dyess to pick it up.

The Blaylock come in and does a solid job holding down the fort and sticking with the way Billups was managing the pace. That had to inspire Billups to turn his offensive game around in the 4th quarter.

jammer Then I saw J-Max & Delfino in as well and figured that Flip must have either been ejected or out sick.


Glad its happening and hope it continues. Perhaps with Hunter out Flip finally figured out that playing Murry 30 mins is not going to get it done.

Nice, plain and simply put NICE!!!!!.
After watching Colriss play in the second game it is COMPLETELY obvious that Max brings to the table everything Corliss took when we shipped him to Philly for DC, man we were missing IT for 2 full seasons, a tough-strong-contact LOVING presence inside. Man it's good to see a big that loves to battle and can actually intimidate in the paint. For crying out loud the sonics thought he was 6'11":pound:

A good tough win where we won the board war and the points in the paint and held their scoring down.......for a minute I thought I was watching the Blue Collar boys "Goin' to Work" again.

Max,

The other night, Davis was blocking shots with Maxiel. Maxiel is there waiting to block shots and the other guys--tonight it was Dice--feed off of that and have someone to work off of. It is a beautiful transformation to watch. I just hope it is real. It sure looks real.

Our pace is slow--that is the way we play and we play to win. No complaints. Larry always wanted someone off the bench to change the pace. Now, I see why. Maxiel comes in and the other team is totally not prepared for what he brings. It gives us another dimension.

Nice, plain and simply put NICE!!!!!.
After watching Colriss play in the second game it is COMPLETELY obvious that Max brings to the table everything Corliss took when we shipped him to Philly for DC, man we were missing IT for 2 full seasons, a tough-strong-contact LOVING presence inside. Man it's good to see a big that loves to battle and can actually intimidate in the paint. For crying out loud the sonics thought he was 6'11":pound:

A good tough win where we won the board war and the points in the paint and held their scoring down.......for a minute I thought I was watching the Blue Collar boys "Goin' to Work" again.

I couldn't watch this game, but from your description, this is everything I love about basketball. Hopefully, the Brahma is for real, and I get to watch him for many years to come.

Show some love.

We all know that we still have arguably the top starters, but the bench is starting to like like an elite one as well. Once Blalock gets more experience this bench will be really good. Dice starts slow, I'm being patient with him. If Delfino gets hot in his jumper that's only a plus. He does everything else and it makes a huge impact. Our rotation now looks like it may be solid 10 man rotation. Once Lindsey gets back it will be 11. Dupree could do things for this team too, he played yesterday and did well.

Good recap Mr. Slip.

Good game. Best part was that I'm starting to feel good about this team going into the playoffs.

Best starting 4 in the NBA. Blaylock can run the point. Murray getting his minutes cut. Delfino looking comfortable on the court, and JMax being JMax.

JMax and Delfino could be a great bench, as they can shift from the 2 to the 5, giving everyone a break but CB. Throw in DD and Blaylock/LH, and we're solid.

People criticise Delfino's shot, but he's not reallly in the offense, when he gets a shot, it's usually a bad look with the shot clock running down. What he does well doesnt show up in the stats. He moves, unlike Evans, forcing his man to move, and not be able to double. He doesn't force shots. He passes well. He can run the break. And his D is good. Great stuff on Lebron, but like Slip noted, Lebron got the superstar call.

And JMax finally made a true believer out of me when I saw him cover Z, and force Z to make a bad shot over JMax's long arms. I'm calling him Inspector gadget now, instead of Brahma. Those arms are freaky.

I was going to jokingly add that Maxiell needs to learn to do the "intangibles" better but really, the guy needs to learn how to pass the ball. IMO he tarnished a golden performance with some crappy FT shooting and by not being able to pass the ball in a meaningful way.

I was hoping for dupree to come in earlier. The team was up by 17 with 5 minutes to go. I think he would have done well as the Cav's looked slow.

Delf NEEDS to hit that shot. everyone gives him an open look cuz they don't think he can hit that. He needs to be a threat so defenders don't sag. He's much more valuable with the drive but he won't get much opportunities with that errant jumper.

Pistons 87, Cavaliers 71 (F) (http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/recaps/recap_377_detcle.asx)

Video Highlights (mostly LeBron)

The Flopping got me thinking about another problem that I see with basketball... the obvious drawing of fouls by the offensive player. What if there was a rule that any time the offensive player invites contact, it is not a foul? Why should it be a foul if they were seeking it out?

You could still pump fake and draw the foul going straight into your shooting motion. But these guards that jump into the defender should not get the calls.

Steve Kerr made that exact point when Rip pulled that maneuver to get to the line at the beginning of the game. I said "Steve Kerr is right" just as a certain forum leader who shall remain nameless popped open a can of hateration on Kerr. :stirthepot:

I was going to jokingly add that Maxiell needs to learn to do the "intangibles" better but really, the guy needs to learn how to pass the ball. IMO he tarnished a golden performance with some crappy FT shooting and by not being able to pass the ball in a meaningful way.

He does need to improve in those categories, but he brings so much energy and toughness to the table that I don't mind cutting him slack for now in other areas.

Linwood, believe it, man. This guy is the truth!

Linwood, believe it, man. This guy is the truth!

That's good news, since I am the Vice Admiral of his fan club. :captain:

I've been waiting patiently for the former Bearcat to break out, so now I will sit back and enjoy. :pop2:

(I won't parade around here trying to rub in my superior scouting on anyone! :))

Flip Murray is quite simply playing for his next pay day. I think Dupree in what little we saw of him was trying to force his shot, and get his own. Performances like that are not going to earn more playing time.

I think all of the "Flip is a bad coach" club (including myself) need to recognize that he has really made massive and impressive changes with the rotation.

I remember the night we drafted Maxiell and Acker. I was at the Yahoo draft site, and they had 3 minute videos of their college highlights. There is no way you can watch Max in that video and think he wouldn't be a player in this league.

Amazingly, he's bringing so much more POWER to the table. I think he was lighter and player a little more on the perimeter in college. In the NBA, he's been the answer to all of our "points in the paint" issues.

Blalock could be a gem. It's unlikely he'll be a superstar, but we have him playing at the cheapest possible value and he's contributing solid minutes. 60th pick, last man in the draft. Joe is going to need low priced talent like this to continue building the team.

Nazr is a strange player. For 5 minutes, he can have you WHOOPing and pumping your fist in the air. Then you spend the next time he's on the court clawing your eyes out and moaning like a wounded animal.

Delfino has really impressed me of late. What better kind of guy to replace Tayshaun on the floor at times? Glue for glue. Plenty of intangibles. My only concern is that he still isn't contributing regularly as a scorer and at one point, that will catch up to him.

Nice to see Dice finally get some rhythm on offense in the 4th. He was at the top of my trade list coming into this game.

Always good to beat up the Cavs. I dislike Lebron. He's lacking any charisma, competitive fire or character. Gooden is a beggar's Carlos Boozer, Ilgauskas is soft as all get out and Varejao should put on a pink tutu before he enters the game so everyone knows he is a princess.

The only Cavs I like are Larry Hughes and Eric Snow.

The question of scouting does come into the picture, though. If JMax continues to get a good number of minutes, how are the other teams going to adjust to him? And how will he handle that? I guess this is something we won't be able to answer fully until it happens in the playoffs, where matchups and adjustments play a bigger role than they do in the hectic travel-filled regular season.

Steve Kerr made that exact point when Rip pulled that maneuver to get to the line at the beginning of the game. I said "Steve Kerr is right" just as a certain forum leader who shall remain nameless popped open a can of hateration on Kerr. :stirthepot:
Lol. GUILTY! :yellowprison:

I just think a lot of what Kerr says is terribly hypocritical. He didn't have the talent of any of the top 8 Detroit players and yet he always seems to have some comment, including the inital mocking of Maxiell/Barkley comparisons.

I think a good point was made on the radio by a caller the other day, as well as the comparisons with Sir Charles last night on TNT.

Maxiell doesn't have much of a finesse game outside a soft shot. If he can develop some post moves, up and unders to go with the THROUGH and OVERS, maybe a pump fake or spin fake, he could be devastating. That would compensate for the poor FT shooting if he can increase his efficiency and take more single FT attempts.

I don't think much of the JMax/Barkley comparisons either. That's a Top 50 dude we're talking about. As KGreg said earlier, and as I've been saying for a while, the best we should hope for from JMax is that he becomes another Corliss. TNT should have been rolling some footage of Big Nasty in his Detroit days for comparison purposes.

Flip Murray is quite simply playing for his next pay day. I think Dupree in what little we saw of him was trying to force his shot, and get his own. Performances like that are not going to earn more playing time.

Classic garbage time performance from Super Dupes, chucking it up every single time he got the ball! LOL. I get a kick out of watching scrubs do that.

Delfino has really impressed me of late. What better kind of guy to replace Tayshaun on the floor at times? Glue for glue. Plenty of intangibles. My only concern is that he still isn't contributing regularly as a scorer and at one point, that will catch up to him.

Yeah, the lack of shooting touch is still an issue, but he does bring the glue consistently. That alone makes him a pretty valuable sub.

From ESPN's Daily Dime:

Thursday's Worst

Cavs forward Anderson Varejao: Sideshow Bob must still be preoccupied with trying to kill Bart Simpson rather than hoopin'. He was shut down, missing all six shots from the floor while making 1-for-4 free throws. Oooohhhhh.
And they don't even mention the flops, one of which ended up in a Pistons layup. I wonder if Cleveland fans also call him Sideshow Bob? :laugh:

One of the most entertaining parts about this game (besides the win) was the commentary.

After Varejo (sp?) flopped as Chauncey was coming around the screen. They didn't call it, but when they were heading back he was like "nice flop" or "you like flopping" something to that extent.

And then after a bulls%it foul call, Sheed and Dyess were having a conversation at the FT line. Sheed was like it must be nice to be Lebron, getting all these calls, and Dyess was like i know right

Sheed pretty much sucked tonight, but i swear ball dont lie never gets old

LOLI played that clip on DVR three times ...Heres Sheed:
"That was definetly a LEBron call. I better not get too close. They would have called a flagrant."

And whatever happenned to the "and 1" tech that they gave twice to sheed this year. LeBron did it THREE times last night. The league needs to rescind at lweast 3 of Sheed's techs. And when Gooden came out of a timeout after flagrant on Max , he didnt know they called a flagrant and looked right at the ref on the camera and said "Bull%^%$!"

The Flopping got me thinking about another problem that I see with basketball... the obvious drawing of fouls by the offensive player. What if there was a rule that any time the offensive player invites contact, it is not a foul? Why should it be a foul if they were seeking it out?

You could still pump fake and draw the foul going straight into your shooting motion. But these guards that jump into the defender should not get the calls.

Varejao really got embarrassed on that 2nd flop attempt though. ha.
like OUR Chauncey and Rip?

Not sure what to make out of that game, if it was Clev not hitting any shots or the D or whatever. I will take it.

NBA.com: Pistons at Cavaliers Boxscore (http://www.nba.com/games/20061221/DETCLE/boxscore.html)

You just knew someone was going to take over the game in the 4th. Tonight it was the Pistons.

What is up with the bench? Or Flip playing them? What this team needed, just almost shocked that Flip is playing them. Really amazing to see Blaylock out there before Flip Murry. Maxiel continues to play great and Dyess even had a good game.
Murray or Lindsay? I say trade FlipII 'round the allstar break.....

Nice, plain and simply put NICE!!!!!.
After watching Colriss play in the second game it is COMPLETELY obvious that Max brings to the table everything Corliss took when we shipped him to Philly for DC, man we were missing IT for 2 full seasons, a tough-strong-contact LOVING presence inside. Man it's good to see a big that loves to battle and can actually intimidate in the paint. For crying out loud the sonics thought he was 6'11":pound:

A good tough win where we won the board war and the points in the paint and held their scoring down.......for a minute I thought I was watching the Blue Collar boys "Goin' to Work" again.THE CONFLICT IN ME HAS ARISEN ONCE AGAIN!......rats.....

Interesting evening. I found myself impatiently waiting to see the bench enter the game. I wasn't disappointed either. They performed admirably against an opponent that mattered.

The JMax comparison to Barkley seems more on point to me than with Corliss, only cause of similar power around the basket. Corliss initiated plenty of bump & grind but finished with finess. Give the kid a little while to improve his handles and learn his opponents, then look out.

Billups was masterful in directing the second half flow. He made the team run through its options, instead of the first half fire-and-fall-back approach.

I thought NazMo played a very solid game on both ends.

It sure seemed like the rule changes regarding jump steps and such are effecting LeBron's ability to dominate with drives into the lane. Or maybe it was fatigue from B2B games.

FlipM, zero second half PT. Dude seems kind of stubborn in his me-shoot-first approach.

The single dimensional aspects of the Cavs supporting cast showed up like game 1&2 of last years playoffs. They gotta be having major doubts this morning.

The single dimensional aspects of the Cavs supporting cast showed up like game 1&2 of last years playoffs. They gotta be having major doubts this morning.

Yeah, though it's actually a little more like Game 7 of the Pistons-Cavs series: the final score of that one was 79-61. What's worse about last night's game for the Cavs is that it was in their house.

Yes, great win. Good to see Dyess grab 11 boards.

Interesting evening. I found myself impatiently waiting to see the bench enter the game. I wasn't disappointed either. They performed admirably against an opponent that mattered.

The JMax comparison to Barkley seems more on point to me than with Corliss, only cause of similar power around the basket. Corliss initiated plenty of bump & grind but finished with finess. Give the kid a little while to improve his handles and learn his opponents, then look out.

Billups was masterful in directing the second half flow. He made the team run through its options, instead of the first half fire-and-fall-back approach.

I thought NazMo played a very solid game on both ends.

It sure seemed like the rule changes regarding jump steps and such are effecting LeBron's ability to dominate with drives into the lane. Or maybe it was fatigue from B2B games.

FlipM, zero second half PT. Dude seems kind of stubborn in his me-shoot-first approach.

The single dimensional aspects of the Cavs supporting cast showed up like game 1&2 of last years playoffs. They gotta be having major doubts this morning.THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO BARKLEY!!! he was one in a million. If there was one guy that is imcomparable i the history of this league , it was the 6'4" 250lb round mound of rebound! Although :pound: If i see , Brahma go behind his back on a dribble ONE Time, I'll fall off my chair!!

BARKLEY>>>>>>there is no subsitute,,,

ALLNBA ORIGINAL TEAM:

BARKLEY
MAGIC
SHAQ
COUSY
SKYWALKER THOMPSON

No one did what they did WHEN they were doin it!!

Yeah, though it's actually a little more like Game 7 of the Pistons-Cavs series: the final score of that one was 79-61. What's worse about last night's game for the Cavs is that it was in their house.
I thought the magnitude of game 7 did more to stop the Cavs than did the Stones, but the Cavs knew what to do. The Cavs had no clue how to attack us in games 1&2. Last night it looked again like they were lost.

Murray Sucks. Not much else to note. He's worse than Mo Evans.

Evans can have his moments on offense. When he gets it going on offense he can run the point total per minute played pretty good. He seems to have, at least for now, found a nice niche with the Fakers. Farmer's Market takes good care of him, AB and Vladi.

:hoops:

I think Dupree in what little we saw of him was trying to force his shot, and get his own. Performances like that are not going to earn more playing time.

.
I liked Dupree. What you call forcing a shot, I consider being aggressive. Nothing worse than watching a guy pass the ball and set screens in GT. He made a good play with a lot of hustle and fired and open J (with incredibly ugly form...shades of gerald wallace?). He didn't shoot anything that made me groan.

I think all of the "Flip is a bad coach" club (including myself) need to recognize that he has really made massive and impressive changes with the rotation.

We see the bench come in early and late. We also see that they are able to contribute a lot. It may not always be impressive as Maxiell's dunks but we get decent plays out of them as a whole (including flip) and it keeps our guys a little fresher. I think it helps them not pace themselves so much. We seem to have a problem jumping on teams early but with our whole team playing, I think its easier for the A team to open up a lead in the 3rd or 4th Q's

THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO BARKLEY!!! he was one in a million. If there was one guy that is imcomparable i the history of this league , it was the 6'4" 250lb round mound of rebound! Although :pound: If i see , Brahma go behind his back on a dribble ONE Time, I'll fall off my chair!!

BARKLEY>>>>>>there is no subsitute,,,

ALLNBA ORIGINAL TEAM:

BARKLEY
MAGIC
SHAQ
COUSY
SKYWALKER THOMPSON

No one did what they did WHEN they were doin it!!
Can't argue your point that CB was incredibly talented. Just sayin, IMO JMax is closer to Chas than The Big Nasty, and given time will develop simular finess of a smaller player.

I don't think much of the JMax/Barkley comparisons either. That's a Top 50 dude we're talking about. As KGreg said earlier, and as I've been saying for a while, the best we should hope for from JMax is that he becomes another Corliss. TNT should have been rolling some footage of Big Nasty in his Detroit days for comparison purposes.

As I recall, Corliss played a lot with his back to the basket; i.e. he posted up a lot and developed some pretty good moves to go with his jumper

:gun1:

As I recall, Corliss played a lot with his back to the basket; i.e. he posted up a lot and developed some pretty good moves to go with his jumper

Yeah, my roommate in grad school referred to Corliss as the "six foot four thug in the post."

He also referred to Kurt Thomas as "a shi!#y Terry Cummings." :pound:

I thought the magnitude of game 7 did more to stop the Cavs than did the Stones, but the Cavs knew what to do. The Cavs had no clue how to attack us in games 1&2. Last night it looked again like they were lost.
If I recall, we mixed up our defensive looks in Games 6 and 7, which had Lebron leaning heavily on his teammates to hit open looks, which they didn't.

Last night was more of the same. The Low was pissed during chat that we were running 3 men at LBJ, but you cannot allow him to dribble penetrate or it's death by dunkfest. You have to play the slow patient game of making him pass and his teammates shoot themselves out of it.

Until they develop a consistent second option to break up the double teams on LBJ, they will not go far.

The Low was pissed during chat...

This of course is true during every single game. :skull: :stooges:

"They're still a powerhouse,'' James said. "They're still No. 1 in the Eastern Conference.''
- Lebron James

NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/games/20061221/DETCLE/recap.html)

I think all of the "Flip is a bad coach" club (including myself) need to recognize that he has really made massive and impressive changes with the rotation.

Now what am I going to complain about? Flip is playing great rotations, Murray is getting benched, Delfino is playing well, Jmax is playing well and Darko is sucking it up, Blaylock is getting pt.

I need conflict, I need conspiracies, I need to rant, where's Larry when you need him.:stirthepot:

lol 16 mile. i always wondered what'd happen if we had games where the pistons played exactly like the forumers wanted. where's the controversy!

Glad I didn't watch. Or I would've sweated for the first 90 minutes.
Still the Pistons were getting 3, cashed a small ticket.
Next up Atlanta, @ the P@AH, didn't they beat us once already? They're in trouble.
Pistons seem to need a little hate going to bring their A game.
It seemed everyone like the minutes rotation:
------- pos.-min-fgm-a3pm-aftm-aoffdeftotastpfsttobs-pts
C.Billups (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chauncey_billups/index.html)G-37:104-132-47-7033101000-17
R.Hamilton (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/richard_hamilton/index.html)G-29:254-100-03-315621130-11
R.Wallace (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rasheed_wallace/index.html)F-25:534-120-31-206601120-9
T.Prince (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tayshaun_prince/index.html)F-38:388-110-10-017830001-16
N.Mohammed (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nazr_mohammed/index.html)C-22:59-4-90-02-242603130-10
A.McDyess (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antonio_mcdyess/index.html)23:38-5-80-01-1381104201-11
J.Maxiell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_maxiell/index.html)16:59-5-70-01-512302011-11
C.Delfino (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carlos_delfino/index.html)16:26-0-20-00-01341200-10
W.Blalock (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/will_blalock/index.html)10:50-0-10-00-00001001-00
R.Murray (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ronald_murray/index.html)09:36-0-30-00-00001100-10
D.Davis (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dale_davis/index.html)06:18-0-00-00-00110100-00
R.Dupree (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ronald_dupree/index.html)02:07-1-40-00-020200000-2
43% FG and 75% FT
I guess it's hard for Brahma to go from power to touch evidenced by his FT%:cheerleader:

Next up Atlanta, @ the P@AH, didn't they beat us once already?

No, the Pistons beat the Hawks at the Palace last month.

Good let's give them another spankage.

Just got to TN after 8:45 in the car driving down, so my first chance to comment on last night.

Just got to say, I loved that basketball game. It was ugly at times, but I really like the way the team played from the JMax dunk over Gooden to the Prince one on the assist from Rip where most of his head and shoulders seemed to be above the rim. Sheed took some early threes figured out they weren't falling, and then glory of glories, stopped.

I don't see much from Blalock yet, but I don't notice much of a step down from Flip either. JMax forgot to rebound some of the time, but nice offensive touches. Good coaching job I thought and the kids really seem to have gotten the defensive switches down.

I could do with another couple dozen of these.

lol 16 mile. i always wondered what'd happen if we had games where the pistons played exactly like the forumers wanted. where's the controversy!

Until Amir gets a shot at playing time, until JMAX, the much better player, or Dale Davis, has taken all of Mohammed's minutes (along with Amir) I will complain. As good as I know Amir is, thats plenty of controversy.

And this non-sense about giving Flip Murray playing time to work out of his "slump" (which is really just how he naturally plays) is another contentious item. Carlos Delfino should be our backup shooting guard, adding ball handling skill to our backcourt. Flip Murray should not be playing.

And finally, Billups is still playing too much. Blalock needs to get up to around 16 minutes per game. Blalock only getting 5 minutes in the first half, instead of getting more like 10, is something that needs to change soon, before Billups gets another injury from overplaying.

Finally, absolutely, we need to go to a big lineup where either Amir Johnson or Jason Maxiell plays some small forward. After seeing JMAX play D the last few games, there is no longer any doubt in my mind that JMAX can do what Corliss did at small forward for us, but even better. JMAX can do as good on O, and provide far better D than Corliss did at the small forward position. Amir is even quicker, so can do even better there. I can't until the day I see a front line of Amir, JMAX, and Dale Davis in for us. (Or Dyess instead of Dale)

The common theme to all this: The Pistons need to be maximizing their chances of winning it all this season. Anything less is unacceptable.

lol 16 mile. i always wondered what'd happen if we had games where the pistons played exactly like the forumers wanted. where's the controversy!


Until Amir gets a shot at playing time...
Anything less is unacceptable.

Ahhh, from 3:37 to 7:53.... one brief shining moment.

Really, if you were here, I'm singing songs from Camelot.

I could-of swore I saw Delfino "duck" rather than taking a charge from LBJ last night. I do recall the play-by-play guys commentin on it. Was that a "flash" of something? Surely it wouldn't escape notice in these parts.

Maybe I'm the only one who seen it.

Are you saying Fino played smart? MH Good position is good position.

Lee we both like Amir but as long as Nazz and Davis are getting the job done his must wait his turn.
There's only so much bench FlipS can handle. He's in way over his head now, what with rotating 9 guys. You gotta be happy.

Did anyone tape the game on dec 21 vs. the cavs in Cleveland or know someone who did? Or happen to have been at the game and took a photo of Kid Rock courtside? If you do and contact me...I can give you a couple free t-shirts on retroragscollection.com ...Kid Rock wore one of my t-shirts and I didn't catch it on tv. Black tee, Grande Ballroom with the old english D on it in the shape of a guitar.
email detroitretrorags@hotmail.com

Are you saying Fino played smart? MH Good position is good position.

Lee we both like Amir but as long as Nazz and Davis are getting the job done his must wait his turn.
There's only so much bench FlipS can handle. He's in way over his head now, what with rotating 9 guys. You gotta be happy.

Nazz is not getting the job done. Despite 4 all star type players in our starting unit, we are just barely over 50% so far in win / loss for that unit. In other words, this unit is just mediocre. Last year, our starting unit rocked, outscoring the opponent well over 2/3 the time.

The main thing lacking with our starting unit is help out D when someone drives the lane on us. Its just not there. JMAX or Dale Davis should start to make this problem go away. And no, our second unit does not need the problem either. Mohammed should not be in the rotation. He was not good enough to stick in the rotation for SA, and he is not good enough for Detroit.

Delfino= overated on most boards... maybe he'll actually make a real difference in a game (both sides of the ball)... it's time to quit finding minor bright points... if he's truly good then he'll show more than the other teams reserves.
The PT excuse is long gone.

Delfino= overated on most boards... maybe he'll actually make a real difference in a game (both sides of the ball)... it's time to quit finding minor bright points... if he's truly good then he'll show more than the other teams reserves.
The PT excuse is long gone.

I agree Merc, and maybe I`m a fool, but I believe he will make a difference on both sides of the ball.

Also, I believe Joe D (not Flip) has given Delfino this season to put up or shut up. If he doesn`t put up, after this year he may be shipped off!

The question of scouting does come into the picture, though. If JMax continues to get a good number of minutes, how are the other teams going to adjust to him? And how will he handle that?

its something that kevin martin is now figuring out, reference his little slump a couple of weeks ago when he was being double teamed. if it comes to the point of j-max being double teamed that can only be a good thing for us.

I could-of swore I saw Delfino "duck" rather than taking a charge from LBJ last night. I do recall the play-by-play guys commentin on it. Was that a "flash" of something? Surely it wouldn't escape notice in these parts.

Maybe I'm the only one who seen it.

well he was trying not to foul the guy, i think it might have been hughes, can't remember but it did look pretty funny. he wasn't in position to try and draw the charge.


pretty good game by the pistons. sheed got booed quite a lot, and didnt really have a good game. the thing i noticed about this game is that it got quite physical and the refs let a lot of stuff go. it was like a time warp to 2004. good to see. the more they let that stuff go the more it helps us.
brahma was nasty. got kerr backtracking on his barkley comparison a little. (kerr = loser)
delfino is playing ok, but nothing stands out about the guy. at least it looks like he's trying to fit in and play within the flow and help out on the little things, unlike mr. murray who totally disrupts any offensive set with his 1 track mind (shoot first). i can see his minutes spiralling if he keeps up that kind of thinking. he just doesnt look like a piston out there, like joe smith when he was here. someone you know will be gone in a year, not showing any heart or desire to 'become' a true piston.
glad to see dice have a nice game, he was really going for those boards, one-handed even. he even passed up a jumper to pump fake Z and go to the basket. i like that. he needs to mix it up more often. (note to sheed)

its something that kevin martin is now figuring out, reference his little slump a couple of weeks ago when he was being double teamed. if it comes to the point of j-max being double teamed that can only be a good thing for us.


That would be great if we actually had a frontcourt bench player drawing double teams. Open things up for everyone else.

Nazz is not getting the job done.

I agree. Wish he was never signed here. Now that he is, can you just bench him given that huge contract? Maybe they are playing him to keep his trade value up.

Amir not playing would also be one of my main gripes at this time. Just had essentially 3 new players integrated since Davis and Maxiel did not play last season so perhaps a 4th like Johnson would be too much all at once. Hopefully Amir will start getting some PT around mid-Jan or so, we will see.

The question of scouting does come into the picture, though. If JMax continues to get a good number of minutes, how are the other teams going to adjust to him? And how will he handle that? I guess this is something we won't be able to answer fully until it happens in the playoffs, where matchups and adjustments play a bigger role than they do in the hectic travel-filled regular season.

That situation is already addressed on page 3,586 of FlipS's playbook. Just ask him. :stirthepot:

I'm on board with Blalock getting the majority of Flip's PT at PG... he can't be any less productive at running a team.
I dunno about implementing all of our youth at the same time though... that could put the team over the tipping point... I think the better way is to rotate their minutes... something like decent PT for Amir for 5 games (effecting Dice instead Maxiell)... then Blalock for 5 games (at Murray's expense)...
I just don't want to see too much inexperience all at the same time.... despite last years playoff failure, home court still can make a big difference.

I think you guys are seeing the glass as half empty.
What if JD got us a BBeen replacement that was starter quality and took starter minutes. The bench wouldn't play and no one would be developing. With Nazz we get bench rotation cause he can handle only 20 minutes.

360* ...just got it.