This isn't Piston-related, but San Francisco and Indiana just made a major trade of complementary pieces:

The Golden State Warriors have agreed to trade Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McLeod to the Indiana Pacers for Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Sarunas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell, NBA front-office sources tell ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

Indiana just got much, much better.

HOLY COW

Whoa! Where did THAT deal come from? They swapped half their teams with each other!

Oh my gawd, Don Nelson must be ecstatic to get rid of his blonde bimbos - Dunleavy and Murphy and getting back some really good players (though Stephen Jackson is of questionable character). Indiana has to be one of the most stagnant teams out there playing boring basketball but I liked Al Harrington but Jermaine O'Neal was pretty much sick of his teammates so they got him some new ones. Makes you wonder what other trigger happy GMs are up to? Surely someone has a back-up PG they want to ditch (Phoenix, Seattle, Dallas) for a really hard-working center that until recently was a starter.

This isn't Piston-related, but San Francisco and Indiana just made a major trade of complementary pieces:



Indiana just got much, much better.

I definitely thing Ike Diogu and Murphy are pretty solid bigs for a team already stacked up with their fair share of decent bigs. I definitely can understand them ridding themselves of s. jackson, but I actually thought Harrington was having a NICE season for those guys... I mean he is shooting lights out from behind the arc and has hurt the Pistons both times we met them this year... I guess they finally decided it was time to break that team up... Oh well, sucks for indy, LOL!

They are calling it a blockbuster trade but I think I'd drift off in the last 20 minutes.

I mean, big enough kind of names, but nobody that is really good. So what will the starting lineups be?
Hard to tell for Indy. I can't see them bringing in Murphy just to play him off the bench, so I'd guess a starting centre gig. Al leaving opens up the starting spot for Granger. Foster should go back to the bench. Dunleavy at SG?

Indiana
C- T.Murphy
PF- J.O'Neal
SF- D.Granger
SG- M.Dunleavy
PG- J.Tinsley

GSW
C- A.Biedrins
PF- A.Harrington
SF- S.Jackson
SG- J.Richardson
PG- B.Davis

Kinda small ballish for the Warriors. Actually, kinda very. Thats gonna be quite a load on Biedrins shoulders. Their next best legit big men - Adonal Foyle? Patrick O'Bryant? They will be hoping Andris stays healthy.
And what happens to breakout guys who have been playing well, like Monta Ellis, Mickael Pietrus and Matt Barnes? There must be another trade going down for GS. Nobody to back up Biedrins, and nobody to back up Harrington. That depth chart is going to look mighty lopsided.

I really don't see how this trade has helped either teams cause that much. Except Larry got a couple more white guys on his team.

Nobody can be happy about going to Oakland to play basketball for the Warriors.

They are calling it a blockbuster trade but I think I'd drift off in the last 20 minutes.

I mean, big enough kind of names, but nobody that is really good. So what will the starting lineups be?
Hard to tell for Indy. I can't see them bringing in Murphy just to play him off the bench, so I'd guess a starting centre gig. Al leaving opens up the starting spot for Granger. Foster should go back to the bench. Dunleavy at SG?

Indiana
C- T.Murphy
PF- J.O'Neal
SF- D.Granger
SG- M.Dunleavy
PG- J.Tinsley

GSW
C- A.Biedrins
PF- A.Harrington
SF- S.Jackson
SG- J.Richardson
PG- B.Davis

Kinda small ballish for the Warriors. Actually, kinda very. Thats gonna be quite a load on Biedrins shoulders. Their next best legit big men - Adonal Foyle? Patrick O'Bryant? They will be hoping Andris stays healthy.
And what happens to breakout guys who have been playing well, like Monta Ellis, Mickael Pietrus and Matt Barnes? There must be another trade going down for GS. Nobody to back up Biedrins, and nobody to back up Harrington. That depth chart is going to look mighty lopsided.

I really don't see how this trade has helped either teams cause that much. Except Larry got a couple more white guys on his team.


:cheerlie-GOAL:

Completely agree with this post. Don't know how either team got better with this deal. The white guy thing is pretty funny...but probably accurate. Sad.

They are calling it a blockbuster trade but I think I'd drift off in the last 20 minutes.

I mean, big enough kind of names, but nobody that is really good. So what will the starting lineups be?
Hard to tell for Indy. I can't see them bringing in Murphy just to play him off the bench, so I'd guess a starting centre gig. Al leaving opens up the starting spot for Granger. Foster should go back to the bench. Dunleavy at SG?

Indiana
C- T.Murphy
PF- J.O'Neal
SF- D.Granger
SG- M.Dunleavy
PG- J.Tinsley

GSW
C- A.Biedrins
PF- A.Harrington
SF- S.Jackson
SG- J.Richardson
PG- B.Davis

Kinda small ballish for the Warriors. Actually, kinda very.


Keep in mind that Golden State's coach is the father of small ball. I wouldn't necessarily expect another trade by the Warriors is eminent.

What I find the most surprising is it appears now even the Pacers have decided to chuck some defense out the window. Harrington and Jackson were two of their most versatile defenders and they traded that away for two softies.

Oh well. I'm not mad.

Jackson and Harrington aren't any better defensively than Dunleavy and Murphy, which is to say that none of the four have ever played any defense worth noting (except Jackson for a year and a half in San Antonio when Pop wouldn't play him if he didn't and Mike Brown was his personal nursemaid/therapist/punching bag). Harrington can't guard either 3s or 4s, Dunleavy's average at the 3 on his good days, and Murphy is an adequate if slow-footed post defender who can't block shots (he's a white Nazr with a jumpshot). Unlike all the rest of them, Ike Diogu can at least play decent help defense, but he's foul prone.

(he's a white Nazr with a jumpshot). .

That's a funny comparison.

This looks like a pretty balanced trade to me - other than Indy gets rid of Jackson which automatically makes them better in my book. (Baron Davis and Jackson are not going to get along. I see punches thrown in practice by the end of February.)

Indy gives up 1,596 Sprocket Points in the deal and gets back 1,662 from Golden State. The Golden State outgoing players are a little more productive on a per game or per minute basis mostly because Diogu has appeared in more than twice as many games as Powell.

Maybe Bird sees something in Dunleavy he likes.

Pacers, Warriors swing 8-player trade - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=At50629E3IrMciw09NPWEd68vLYF?slug=ap-pacers-warriorstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Pacers, Warriors swing 8-player trade By GREG BEACHAM, AP Sports Writer
January 17, 2007
OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) -- The Indiana Pacers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind/) traded Al Harrington (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3268/) and Stephen Jackson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3210/) to the Golden State Warriors (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw/) on Wednesday for forwards Troy Murphy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3524/) and Mike Dunleavy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3601/) as part of an eight-player deal designed to shake up two struggling teams.
The Pacers also sent guard Sarunas Jasikevicius (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3996/) and forward Josh Powell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3774/) to the Warriors, who gave up forward Ike Diogu (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3935/) and guard Keith McLeod (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3810/).

What ya think? Will Dunleavy pan out or stay on the bench? More PT for Granger? Will Harrington score 20ppg? Starting job for Stephen Jackson due to Richardson's injury?

Jackson and Harrington aren't any better defensively than Dunleavy and Murphy, which is to say that none of the four have ever played any defense worth noting (except Jackson for a year and a half in San Antonio when Pop wouldn't play him if he didn't and Mike Brown was his personal nursemaid/therapist/punching bag).

Why do I think Rip and Tayshaun would disagree with you on that?

As far as Harrington is concerned, during his first run in Indiana, Rick was using him primarily for his versatility on defense moreso than as the multidimensional scorer he is today.


But who knows, perhaps Dunleavy will excell at chasing Rip off screens?

It's either that, or he guards Tayshaun on the perimeter (too slow) or in the post (too weak).

It's not like Prince has a blinding first step or the ability to score on the block against anyone who isn't much smaller than him. Prince is the better player, but that hasn't been a matchup advantage the Pistons have been consistently able to exploit (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/golden-state-warriors/players/mike-dunleavy/comparison/07/9/125/118). Obviously Dunleavy isn't Ron Artest at the defensive end, but he isn't LeBron James either.

Rip has had some struggles against the Pacers (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/detroit-pistons/players/richard-hamilton/comparison/07/8/111/158) (along with some good performances), but I'd attribute that more to Rick Carlisle's strong team defensive concept than his being guarded by Jackson (who wasn't on him all the time). I stand by my statement that he hasn't been a good defensive player since leaving the Spurs, and I don't think Pacers players, fans, or coaching staff would disagree with me on that.

I'd guess that Marquis Daniels will be their starting 2-guard, and he's definitely been a better defensive player than Jackson over the past few years.

This discussion has already hijacked the Pistons trade thread. Some thoughts going on over there.

Rip has had some struggles against the Pacers (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/detroit-pistons/players/richard-hamilton/comparison/07/8/111/158) (along with some good performances), but I'd attribute that more to Rick Carlisle's strong team defensive concept than his being guarded by Jackson (who wasn't on him all the time). I stand by my statement that he hasn't been a good defensive player since leaving the Spurs, and I don't think Pacers players, fans, or coaching staff would disagree with me on that.

I'd guess that Marquis Daniels will be their starting 2-guard, and he's definitely been a better defensive player than Jackson over the past few years.


PACERS: Pacers-Pistons Preview 061213 (http://aol.nba.com/pacers/news/preview_061213.html)

and I'll quote Rick Carlisle:

"We need him to play (Richard) Hamilton, which is tough," Carlisle said. "Jack's a really fine player. In my opinion, in terms of his abilities, he's a top 10 or 15 guy at his position in the league. We need him to play at a high level every night and to be one of our leaders."

Looks like the Head Coach disagrees with you for one.

It's not like Prince has a blinding first step or the ability to score on the block against anyone who isn't much smaller than him. Prince is the better player, but that hasn't been a matchup advantage the Pistons have been consistently able to exploit (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/golden-state-warriors/players/mike-dunleavy/comparison/07/9/125/118). Obviously Dunleavy isn't Ron Artest at the defensive end, but he isn't LeBron James either.




Individual "stat" comparison head to head might be useful if they were the only two players on the floor. Those number are going to be skewed immediately once you consider that Tayshaun is often the 4th option offensively, whereas Dunleavy has enjoyed a touch more prominence, even though he couldn't do anything with it.

And whats with LeBron being the defensive antithesis of Ronnie Artest?

I'm sure he falls backwards into 7 boards (6 defensive) a block and 1.5 steals per...

Darn straight Dunleavy isn't LeBron on defense.

Harrington was beginning to cry that he wasn't getting the ball. Jack is jack, his days were numbered. Sarunas will never play D, that will always be a DISAPPOINTMENT.
I believe I was correct about Al Harrington, it should be fun watching him, Jack and Baron Davis split their shots!
Recall harrington's playoff stats in that one game he started against the Pistons? Undersized me guy, that's about it.

"We need him to play (Richard) Hamilton, which is tough," Carlisle said. "Jack's a really fine player. In my opinion, in terms of his abilities, he's a top 10 or 15 guy at his position in the league. We need him to play at a high level every night and to be one of our leaders."

Looks like the Head Coach disagrees with you for one.
First, I meant now that the player is now employed by a different team and the coach no longer feels a need to stroke his ego.

Second, I'm not sure how that quote would be useful in making a case that Jackson is considered a good defender, even ignoring the ludicrous "top 10" fluff.

Third, LeBron James is among the very worst defensive players in the NBA. Rebounding is not a part of defense; it is a separate aspect of the game. Steals are not an indicator of anything in particular; a lot of good defensive players make steals, but so do gamblers like Allen Iverson and Gerald Wallace. Even slow, unathletic players like Mike Dunleavy and Tayshaun Prince can make a positive impact on position defense when they make an effort, which they occasionally do; I have not once seen James make such an effort in his NBA career, and he seems to lack a basic understanding of defensive fundamentals in addition to his lack of commitment.

...and dont forget about JRichardson!!hahaha...Im a big Troy Murphy fan. He's a more mobile Bill Laimbeer and I would pray for a deal to get him here. I miss not having a tough SOB of irish decent on this team..GO GET MURPHY!

...and dont forget about JRichardson!!hahaha...Im a big Troy Murphy fan. He's a more mobile Bill Laimbeer and I would pray for a deal to get him here. I miss not having a tough SOB of irish decent on this team..GO GET MURPHY!

Accept he can't nail free throws like Big Bill.

Accept he can't nail free throws like Big Bill.
this to ..is true...

Laimbeer never looked goofier than his free throw form, knees locked.

The Pacers keep getting softer and softer... I love those matchups for the Pistons... Sheed eats Murphy and Tay owns Dunleavy.
Pacers are goin' down

First, I meant now that the player is now employed by a different team and the coach no longer feels a need to stroke his ego.

Second, I'm not sure how that quote would be useful in making a case that Jackson is considered a good defender, even ignoring the ludicrous "top 10" fluff.

Third, LeBron James is among the very worst defensive players in the NBA. Rebounding is not a part of defense; it is a separate aspect of the game. Steals are not an indicator of anything in particular; a lot of good defensive players make steals, but so do gamblers like Allen Iverson and Gerald Wallace. Even slow, unathletic players like Mike Dunleavy and Tayshaun Prince can make a positive impact on position defense when they make an effort, which they occasionally do; I have not once seen James make such an effort in his NBA career, and he seems to lack a basic understanding of defensive fundamentals in addition to his lack of commitment.

"We need him to play Richard Hamilton" - Rick Carlisle

"We NEED him to play Richard Hamilton"- Rick Carlisle

See what I'm saying? Coach wasn't talking about Jackson throwing on Rip's face mask and trying out for Phantom of the Opera, when you play someone in basketball it's on the defensive end of the floor; furthermore, his use of the word need in this scenario has nothing to do with ego-stroking. Rick Carlisle doesn't stroke anyones ego when he's watching them on the defensive end of the floor, and he sure as heck wouldn't mince words if Jackson were as horrible as you'd like everyone else to believe. If he were, Stephen wouldn't have lasted this long without soon being introduced to the far end of the bench.

Third, LeBron James is among the very worst defensive players in the NBA. Rebounding is not a part of defense; it is a separate aspect of the game. Steals are not an indicator of anything in particular; a lot of good defensive players make steals, but so do gamblers like Allen Iverson and Gerald Wallace. Even slow, unathletic players like Mike Dunleavy and Tayshaun Prince can make a positive impact on position defense when they make an effort, which they occasionally do; I have not once seen James make such an effort in his NBA career, and he seems to lack a basic understanding of defensive fundamentals in addition to his lack of commitment.

Rebounding isn't any part of defense?


I'm talking to a Piston fan right?


Any defensive minded fan, player or coach would be remiss if they failed to point out that your job isn't finished on the defensive end..............






Until you rebound the ball.

The sub-par teams tend to lapse in this fundamental aspect in virtually every level of the game from junior high to pro.

The Pacers keep getting softer and softer... I love those matchups for the Pistons... Sheed eats Murphy and Tay owns Dunleavy.
Pacers are goin' downUh...What's the score so far? There's always hope, I guess...:hoops:

Rebounding isn't any part of defense?
Any defensive minded fan, player or coach would be remiss if they failed to point out that your job isn't finished on the defensive end..............

Until you rebound the ball.


Agreed - or have position via steal. I never seen this coming, I would've thought JermO would've been traded before any of those guys would. I wonder when Bird's gonna realize that you can't win a championship with that guy, he's damn good but he'll never be a champion.

Which NBA player is least interested in playing defense? The Cavaliers' LeBron James received the most votes among players in his own Central Division (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/players/02/13/poll.0213/)

Given the margin of error around a 271 respondent poll, it seems pretty safe to say there is absolutely no concensus about who plays the least defense.