Toronto Feb 10 7:30PM

tv: WDIV

Raptors are gutting out some tough wins lately. They're 25 and 23. Doesn't look like Knicks and Nets can hang with them.
Ps 100
Rs 85
A serious dose of "you got a long way to go baby".

Both teams come into the game with 5 game winning streaks with their 5th win vs the falling Lakers. The Raptors will be in a back-to-back situation and didn't handle the Lakers with ease as the Pistons did. However this is the first meeting this season for the two team, so we are not sure how teams will matchup other than the Pistons have the veterans and the Raptors have the up and coming international cast. Don't think it will be as easy as some think, but the Pistons who are on a roll & have finally turned it on at the Palace, should get the homecookin and the win. :cheers:

The zone defense has recieved props for stopping Lebron and Kobe, let`s see how successful it is against Bosh and the young athletic Raptors.

Toronto appears to be putting in some work. i am looking forward to Detroit killing these cats and pooping on their self esteem.

Here is your pre-game primer....

So last night I am channel surfing and Raptors TV (our northern version of NBATV) has their two resident player experts on a court breaking down Rip Hamilton's game. It was about 15 minutes long and super interesting. They showed how much of Rip's running of screens is choreography and how much it is freestyle. How he stops on a dime, lets his man run into him and then takes off in another direction as screen are set. It's all a setup for the defender, and as they put it, "Hamilton scores through execution and exhaustion". We get tons of good programming like that as they try to sell the game up here. Obviously they try to sell the Raptors, but do an excellent job of selling the game of basketball to new fans as well.

Enough gushing about that though. I did manage to catch 10 minutes of the first and 5 minutes of the second half of the Raptors against the Lakers.

Admittedly I have not watched a whole lot of Raptors basketball this year, but enough to provide a little player information.

First off, the Raptors like to run. Last night, TJ Ford returned to the starting lineup after coming off the bench for several games. He was injured and the Raptors played very well with Jose Calderon as the starting PG. Although the Lakers tried to keep the game at a deliberate tempo, they had no answer for the Raptors swarming team attack.

On defense, the Raptors play a zone/man mix similar to the Pistons. They have hustle players who play under control, forcing 3 more turnovers than they give up over their last 10 games. A lot of their defense is predicated on solid offensive execution similar to the philosophy the Pistons employ.

Right now, the Pistons and Raptors are the two hottest teams in the East, both bringing 8-2 records (last 10) into tonight's matchup.

PGs - Ford and Calderon are both small guards with quickness. Neither is much of a threat to score with long jumpers, but both can penetrate and get to the rim. Ford likes to probe and attack, he's so damn quick he can beat almost any defender, and occasionally the second level defender as well for easy layups. Calderon is the setup man, he's a super skilled passer that has developed a lot of patience in his second year. When he looks to score, Jose is deadly, shooting 57+% during those last 10 games, and 90% from the free throw line.

SGs - Anthony Parker is the starting SG, with Morris Peterson backing up SG and SF. Parker is a Euroleague legend, his last stint in the NBA was with Philly I believe. Parker is a scorer and a veteran defender. He doesn't possess a lot of athleticism, but he can get above the rim and make tough shots in traffic. He's also the team's most prolific 3 point shooter, recently hitting 45% of his long ball attempts. He's not a threat to pass, when he makes his move, he's trying to finish. Imagine a smart Flip Murray with range. Mo Pete has been coming off of the Raptors bench, he brings a similar game to Parker, although he is absolutely no threat to share the ball.

SFs - Jorge Garbajosa is the starting SF. He's a 29 year old rookie from Spain. The Raptor's glue guy, not much of a shooter, but a frantic defender and rebounder. Amazingly, he does not pick up many fouls considering he is a rookie and plays quite physically. Look for him to negate Tayshaun through hustle. Mo Pete also backs up this position at times.

PFs - Chris Bosh. Not much left to say about this guy. He has range, he's a savvy scorer and has learned how to use his wiry frame to his advantage. He's done a great job racking up free throw attempts on his defenders, to the tune of 11 per game during the recent stretch. Bosh is shooting 57% from the field, and will step out for a 3 pointer now and again. He's fast, he's a tremendous finisher and he's almost impossible to rattle. At 40 MPG, he's a 30 point scorer. Beating the Raptors means beating Bosh. Andreas Bargnani also plays in the front court rotation. He was the #1 pick in the last draft, a Dirk Nowitski type player without the veteran savvy. Bargnani likes to shoot and frequently finds himself open on the baseline for jumpers. Andreas is strictly a perimeter player, unlikely to crash the boards or go strong to the hoop. If you leave him open, he will heave up shots at a poor percentage (but he can get hot).

Cs - Rasho Nesterovic is the only true center on this team. He's a slower, robotic player with the ability to clean up easy boards and block some shots. Right now, the Raptors are only playing Rasho 24 minutes per game, and rarely late in close matches.

Overview

The Raptors are a bonafide scoring machine. They have almost 6 rotation players shooting 50% or better and 5 players shooting 3s at 40+%. They get beat on the boards but take care of the ball, producing only 11 turnovers vs. 14 by their opponents. They also pass well (24 assists per game , last 10) and shoot early in the shot clock.

The Pistons will have to control tempo and go directly at Bosh on offense. Racking up fouls on Nesterovic is pointless, as it will encourage the Raptors to go to their running game that much faster, with small ball lineups consisting of;

Ford - Calderon - Parker - Peterson - Bargnani - Bosh - Garbajosa

A big test for Chris Webber as he's prone to fouls and doesn't have the range to defend Bargnani or Bosh in the high post.

Should be a great game. Detroit toughness against Toronto speed.

Sheed wil have his hand full again, back to back left handers. Did a great job on Odom on Thursday, hopefully he can match it with Bosh this time.

GO PISTONS!!!

Nice Scoe'! :)

I'd also like to add that Billups can post up both Calderon and Ford. He will have to do something to negate their speed attack and getting them into foul trouble may be it.

Of course, these guys are going to run Billups ragged, the Pistons will have to be crisp with their rotations. The Raptors are fairly complete in their attack, so the zone may work against the Pistons unless the Raps go cold from the outside.

We will have to keep up on offense and play smart.

I thought we should have got calderon and to a lesser extent sergio rodriguez. I think at the time we had arroyo who is in a similar mode as calderon but probably more experienced. Calderon is maturing nicely though. And instead of either, we have lindsey hunter still.

Both teams have 5 game winning streaks. Whose winning streak will be snapped? Hopefully the Raptors. They arent doing that well on the road 9-16 if i remember correctly. Detroit needs to pick up their playing at home and beat the Raptors. I think the Pistons will win this one in a tight game though.

ALL I KNOW IS:

1. Chris Bosh was the number 4 pick in the draft. 1)Lebron 3) Anthony and 5)Wade and who did the Pistons take number 2 again? How's that Darko guy working out for us? And who did we get back in trade? This will go down as the worst draft in our Michigan sports history.

2) Anthony parker's sister is Candace, the dunking wunderkind at Tennessee. A healthy Cheryl and Reggie Miller would still crush them though.

3)Is Sergio Mendes the official organ player at Raptor home cames. I bet he could play a funky "O Canada".

....thats all i know.:sssh:

chauncey will post up, we'll control the tempo, and show these raptors who's the real beast in the east.

ALL I KNOW IS:

1. Chris Bosh was the number 4 pick in the draft. 1)Lebron 3) Anthony and 5)Wade and who did the Pistons take number 2 again? How's that Darko guy working out for us? And who did we get back in trade? This will go down as the worst draft in our Michigan sports history.

2) Anthony parker's sister is Candace, the dunking wunderkind at Tennessee. A healthy Cheryl and Reggie Miller would still crush them though.

3)Is Sergio Mendes the official organ player at Raptor home cames. I bet he could play a funky "O Canada".

....thats all i know.:sssh:

If Toronto had Darko on their team, they would have some interior defense and a good chance to beat us. As it is, they have no interior D and this game will be a cakewalk for the Pistons.

We are only talking about 10 games from a team that just learning to play right, as oppose to one thats been playing right for years. People love to jump on the "run-and-gun" band wagon.

The primer is not about Raptor-love. It's about knowing our opponent tonight for folks who may be unfamiliar with them. Toronto is coming in playing quality basketball right now, and now is what matters. What teams did last year, or in November will have no impact on tonight's match. :)

Thanks for the info Ros.

This could turn out to be one of those statement games.

If Toronto had Darko on their team, they would have some interior defense and a good chance to beat us. As it is, they have no interior D and this game will be a cakewalk for the Pistons.so ur saying Darko is better than Bosh, my brutha???????

Its looks like 10 out of the Raps last 12 games have been in Toronto. Thats a pretty big homestand, no wonder why they have been winning.

Part of being a good team is taking them out of a familiar environment and seeing if they can win on the road. They are 18-7 at home and 9-16 on the road.

"Admittedly I have not watched a whole lot of Raptors basketball this year, but enough to provide a little player information."
Strong preview.
Something tells me you've been sneaking many furtive peeks at this Raptors squad.

Raptors NBA TV my friend. I'm online all day, but the TV is usually on in the background. They do "game in an hour" cuts so sometimes I watch that off and on. No timeouts or free throws.

Been looking forward to this one. The more media hype we get up here, the better our coverage is. As a fan, I can't ask for more.

Plus, I really, really love watching Bosh play.

so ur saying Darko is better than Bosh, my brutha???????

Darko is a whole lot better than Bosh in one key area, defending against power forwards and centers. There is no comparison at all. Ask about this after the game if you still don't agree.

Excellent preview Roscoe.

If the Pistons play like they have the past 4-5 games, we will win this one handedly.

If we go in with the same attitude as we did with the Wizards, it will be a long night. We tried to outrun and outgun them, ain't happening. We must play Pistons ball for 48 minutes.

The bench scares me, I am very uncomfortable with our current bench players.

Can't wait to see how Webber will react to a young athletic team, especially now since he is thoroughly entrenched in the Flip Saunders playbook.

If Toronto had Darko on their team, they would have some interior defense and a good chance to beat us. As it is, they have no interior D and this game will be a cakewalk for the Pistons.
And if Boston had Darko on their team, they would be on a 17 game winning streak.

lee, I think you need to check out Garbajosa. He plays SF, PF and C. He's a pretty good defender for an old spanish dude.

Also, Rasho is a lot like Darko. Tall and stuff. I think Rasho is a Darko-esque defender.

We'll see tonight!! Only an hour to go!

Chat is open!!!!

See you soon!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Have fun, make friends, play defense!

First half player notes:

Billups: didn't do much at all... was impatient on offense when he didn't defer... his defense was extremely bad against both Ford and Calderon... he did a good job of team defense when matched up with Parker, though
Hamilton: a pretty good game... shot and passed very well... his defense wasn't great early but was solid in the second quarter
Prince: a usual Prince type of night... invisible on offense, late on defense, and not much on the boards
Wallace: a monster... did an excellent job in the post and shot well from the perimeter... defense good to excellent
Webber: maybe played slightly better than Rasho... didn't score from the block... completed extremely difficult passes to Rasheed on more than one occasion... some turnovers to go with them, though
Hunter: shot the ball extremely well... dribbled a lot but set up Rip very well... struggled on defense early but had a spectacular stretch in the second quarter... left TJ Ford open for a corner 3, though
McDyess: showed some nice fakes in the post... didn't score, but drew a foul... drew a charge... didn't score or board much and had a bad turnover... slow on help defense
Delfino: got dunked on by Joey Graham and left MoPete open for consecutive corner 3s... other than that, defense was solid to spectacular... he and Lindsey shut down the Raptors' screen-roll offense in the early second... got some difficult rebounds in traffic... got some layups and missed an open 3

Second half player notes:

Billups: missed some more ill-advised shots... successfully got into the defense off the dribble... drew multiple fouls... posted once and made a good pass to the cutter... got abused by TJ Ford most of the night, but stripped him once on an isolation... hit the game-sealing pull-up jumper in the lane... hit his free throws
Hamilton: scored in a variety of ways... passed well, too... good defense... when the bench came in, he forced shots and turned the ball over while overdribbling
Prince: three offensive rebounds... hit some pull-up jumpers... an incredibly weak touch foul to give up an and-1... didn't do anything on the possessions he ran the offense... passive defensive effort
Wallace: dominated Bosh and Bargnani on both ends... a phenomenal post-up display... hit outside jumpers... passed from the block... excellent defense... caused about five turnovers in the third quarter as well as making his man miss... a magnificent game
Webber: good rebounding... good movement without the ball... two dunks (!)... his extremely slow pick-and-roll defense in the late 4th led to his being yanked by Flip for Delfino
Hunter: played excellent defense against Ford... hit another 3... at point guard, he looked to set up Rip every time down the floor, to mixed results
McDyess: drew a foul... committed a stupid foul... played excellent defense on a drive by Bargnani, blocking the shot... made a shot
Delfino: didn't do much his first stint... good passing and defense... only two more rebounds... turned the ball over once... drove for a layup on a kickout from Rasheed
Maxiell: did just about nothing... decent defense on the perimeter... set a good pick for Rip for once... the spacing got completely screwed up as soon as he got on the floor... committed a turnover

Flip Saunders: I still don't understand why he refuses to use the end-of-quarter break to give extra rest to his starters... subbed in Hunter-Delfino-Maxiell at 11 minute mark

The vast majority of the Pistons' scoring, as usual, came from the Billups-Hamilton-Wallace three man game. The Pistons offense ground to a halt every single time that Tayshaun Prince is on the strong side of the floor (for instance the shot clock violation with less than 3 minutes left in the game).

48-9


thats our record when Sheed scores 20 points or more, including playoffs since he joined the team in 2004.

Flip Saunders on... Chris Bosh's defense:
And he's becoming a good defender, not only off the ball as far as blocking shots, but even a better on-the-ball defender.

Six in a row baby! Detroit had their hands full with a talented squad of mostly foreign players (that can all ball). Toronto is a fun team to watch and they just are just a couple of pieces away from being a serious playoff contending team. I like when Sheed plays on fire he seems very engaged in basketball right now so I attribute that to Chris Webber being on the team. The tech Sheed got was ridiculous and I hope they appeal that because no other player would have been called for that. Maxiell is in a sophmore funk right now but he's just not playing enough minutes to get on any kind of a roll so I just want him to keep getting some burn. Delfino is so energetic and fun to watch and he finally finished some plays close to the hoop tonight. His D was decent except for letting Mo Pete burn him several times on 3s. Need to be in that guys jock because Peterson is an incredible shooter. Bring on the Paperclips I say!

48-9


thats our record when Sheed scores 20 points or more, including playoffs since he joined the team in 2004.


Thanks Web...Although 9 of his game high 28 pts came from beyond the arc, that record alone is why he should be fed the rock more often in the post.

Now Ms Sheed and Dr Phil will need to sit down and talk to him about anger management, because the next tech I believe will start to hurt us.

Well, if you watched the game, you saw what I have been preaching. The Raptors are a bonafide up and comer.

Poor play - Billups, Prince, Maxiell, McDyess

Good play - Delfino, Hunter, Webber, Billups

Great play - Rip and Sheed

Sheed was a workhorse tonight. He fought Bosh every inch of the way, and showed the young fella how to play at another level. Maybe his best regular season performance in a Pistons uniform to date. Classic.

Toronto Coach Sam Mitchell said in the postgame that this was a night that Chris Bosh and some of the other young Raptors grew up. That Chris now understands that players are going to come after him.

On the downside, Sheed did pick up his 15th tech from one of the worst refs. Courtney Kirkland.

Hamilton had a very efficient game and played solid defense on Parker.
Unfortunately Rip was also the beneficiary of a spotty call. He was tagged with a flagrant foul for what looked like a graze on Anthony Parker's face that may or may not have been embellished with a flop.

I really thought the Pistons played decent and the Raptors played almost as well as they can. That's a good sign because if the Pistons play great, they should be able to keep getting teams down by big #s.

As an aside, does anyone believe we are playing Flip's playbook anymore? Sure looks like a bunch of talented players just balling with a lot of improvisation and plays off of instinct. They look like they are having fun and with the exception of Tayshaun (and at times to the detriment of Billups) not thinking too much.

We're officially hot right now. Let's burn up the Clippers. :flame: :flame: :flame:

Roscoe how could Chauncey to both poor and good?

There was absolutely no reason for this game to ever be close. Toronto has zero interior D, especially from this so called all-star of theirs. Yep, the fans got that one very wrong. Defense is part of the game and Bosh is way too short a player to affect the shot of NBA power forwards and centers, as well as too weak to compensate for it.

The Pistons started off mostly jump shooting, again thru about the first 6 mintues. We got behind some. Then Flip reminded his players about the game plan. Thats twice we went 6 minutes to start a game with everyone on the wrong page. Then we started going inside. A bit of Webber, a lot of Sheed, and of course Toronto had no answer.

We got the game tied back up pretty much, and then in came Hunter to put us behind. He scored 4 points himself but other than that we had no bench scoring thru most of the 2nd quarter. However Hunter continued to hit his shots, other people compensated by helping out with the ball handling, and we got back on track with Hunter still in the game. The announcers were calling this great game by Hunter already in the first half. Nope, you give up a huge lead because you are too stuborn to let someone else handle the ball, then help tie it up later-thats not a very good first half. In the 2nd half, Hunter did better.

Delfino gave us some scoring, and some excellent defensive rotation. I see someone on one of the boards blamed Delfino for two of those 3's by MoPete. Nope, Delfino, on the first shot, was the only player on that side of the floor. He can't cover everyone-it was poor rotation by other players. On the 2nd one though Delfino did play off MoPete too much. Other than that, Delfino's D and rebounding was a huge part of this win.

Rip had lots of points, and lots of assists. With Billups running things, Rip's offense just kind of is there. His scoring in no way bogs down the rest of our offense. On the other hand, with Hunter running the point, or I should say trying to run the point, yeah, things really slow down. It irks me no end when Delfino is bringing the ball up, and instead of going to spot up, Hunter pouts for the ball.

Maxiell only got in for 5 minutes in the 4th quarter. Still some good solid NBA experience in crunch time for the big guy. He did ok defensively, and thats it. His only scoring attempt ended in a very obvious offensive foul.

Sheed was totally awesome, nailing triple tries but more importantly using his mismatch in height and strength to utterly dominate inside. And on D, he chased Bosh around very well, making Bosh just a rather ineffective jump shooter.

Webber settled too often for the long outside shots. He did pull some rebounds and got some dunks. Not much of a game from him compared of late, and with Toronto being such a perimeter oriented team, Webber was a poor fit for our defense. Fortunately, we had Delfino, who is perfect for such, come in the last 4 minutes to help win this one. We had just given up a big run to Toronto just prior with Webber out there.

No Dale Davis. Again. Dyess hit a shot from the outside, played some decent D. He has taped up ribs so I don't know how much good he really did tonight for us by playing. Did I mention we had Dale Davis available?

CB scored little, was surely to blame for not runnign offense thru the post to start the game, and at one point where we had them at our mercy decided to shoot another 3 early in the clock. Fortunately, it was just that one shot and we returned to the normal program. Overall, CB did great in keeping our offense on track and had 7 assists to no turns. Very little scoring from him.

Prince was out there. Hit a shot or two. Considering who we were playing, there is no excuse at all for Prince not to have driven in a lot more.

Even though not as good as we could have done, still a very good win vs. one of the hottest teams in the league. (Althoug Toronto is coming off a stretch of mostly home games, so are they hot or just comfortable?) GO PISTONS!!!!!

Lee Billups had 9 assists and 0 turnovers not 7 assists.

Lee Billups had 9 assists and 0 turnovers not 7 assists.

Thanks, but get use to this. I do not look at the boxscore before I post. I try to post from my memory, as fast as I can, while my memories are still fresh. Rather late in the game, they announced Billups had 7 assists to no turns, and that is what I remembered. Still, again, thanks for the info.

Well, if you watched the game, you saw what I have been preaching. The Raptors are a bonafide up and comer.

Poor play - Billups, Prince, Maxiell, McDyess

Good play - Delfino, Hunter, Webber, Billups

Great play - Rip and Sheed

Sheed was a workhorse tonight. He fought Bosh every inch of the way, and showed the young fella how to play at another level. Maybe his best regular season performance in a Pistons uniform to date. Classic.

Toronto Coach Sam Mitchell said in the postgame that this was a night that Chris Bosh and some of the other young Raptors grew up. That Chris now understands that players are going to come after him.

On the downside, Sheed did pick up his 15th tech from one of the worst refs. Courtney Kirkland.

Hamilton had a very efficient game and played solid defense on Parker.
Unfortunately Rip was also the beneficiary of a spotty call. He was tagged with a flagrant foul for what looked like a graze on Anthony Parker's face that may or may not have been embellished with a flop.

I really thought the Pistons played decent and the Raptors played almost as well as they can. That's a good sign because if the Pistons play great, they should be able to keep getting teams down by big #s.

As an aside, does anyone believe we are playing Flip's playbook anymore? Sure looks like a bunch of talented players just balling with a lot of improvisation and plays off of instinct. They look like they are having fun and with the exception of Tayshaun (and at times to the detriment of Billups) not thinking too much.

We're officially hot right now. Let's burn up the Clippers. :flame: :flame: :flame:

Good recap. The playbook? I think its a myth. Just a convenient excuse for not playing guys. Or not playing Delfino at point. Or never giving Amir even a little taste of playing time. Basketball is not that complicated much of the time. Flip should be trying to get this team ready for the playoffs. We need more bench play, throw that playbook away anyway as its the most well known book on the planet as far as I can tell.

There was absolutely no reason for this game to ever be close. Toronto has zero interior D, especially from this so called all-star of theirs.

The Pistons started off mostly jump shooting, again thru about the first 6 mintues. We got behind some. Then Flip reminded his players about the game plan.

Bosh got schooled by the veteran Sheed, but his team is the 4th best in the east and playing well ,so might as well send their best player to the allstud game.

I am not sure about "Flips game plan", but you are right they did curtail the ouside J's and concentrate on penetrating and using Sheed in the post.

Didn't see the game tonight, since I was watching my Kentucky Wildcats with some friends as they got beat by the Gators. Nice to see that Sheed had a huge game against Bosh. And it's always a good sign to see that your starting guards combined for 17 assists to only two turnovers!

i'll try to throw some things out there that others haven't touched on:

there were a TON of raptors fans in the crowd. i'm guessing this is similar to last year when toronto offered ticket deals for Pistons to sit behind their basket. same thing here - my friend and i pulled in to see a LOT of charter buses, and most of the raptors' crowd was behind the basket near their bench. the loud cheer after toronto's first bucket was surprising, and it definitely got their players fired up in the 1st quarter.

this was the 1st real sellout i've seen this year, and they actually announced it over the PA this time. there was also a fun skit on the jumbotron of the raptors' mascot. he came to detroit and stole a lollipop from a little girl, pushed a lady out of the way for a cab, something else i forgot, and then wrote bad stuff about Hooper on his parking space. then Hooper backed into him with his car and all was well. pretty funny skit actually.

there were 2 raps fans sitting near us, and being extremely judgmental about all canadians based on these two, they like to look like euros and be annoying :P they were very supportive of their team and cheering louder than most pistons fans for the first few quarters. actually, the palace is one of the best places to go if you're a fan of the visiting team - most pistons fans are too apathetic and disinterested in heckling...unless it's the playoffs (or palacevision when you've got 10,000-20,000 young people in the stands).

as for the game, bosh was getting pissed that sheed was doing so well, and tried to force his game on the offensive end to no avail. sheed wore him out and this was the best game i've seen him play all year.

tj ford is super quick, but still prone to turnovers. he can get in the lane but often has no idea what to do after that. bargnani got our bigs to bite on his pump-fake at the 3-point line about 4 times in a row. kid has some skills and he should turn into a pretty decent player.

the main thing that toronto gives us trouble with reminded me of our Finals series against the spurs. toronto has several players capable of hitting the three, and use their guards to penetrate very deep in the lane and then throw a very long kickout pass for the open 3. san antonio loved doing this to us since we collapsed whenever a player got that deep in the lane. toronto is uniquely setup to take advantage of this - although i imagine that the Pistons are not the only team to get burned by this.

not sure what the replays showed, but it looked like calderon totally flopped on rip. from the stands it didn't even look like rip's elbow touched him. but we got some bad calls early, and favorable calls late.

there were an extraordinary amount of good looking women in their 30s and 40s here, which was a bonus.

about 700 fans got to shoot a free throw on the court after the game, and usually it's ugly, but there were a lot of nice swishes from the crowd.

you probably didn't need to know some of that, but yeah. this was a great game, was actually fun to attend, and it was a good crowd. can't wait until the playoffs...

oh, and jose calderon = the geek fraternity president from van wilder...

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3989.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/K/c/jasonwinerint.jpg

Good match unbeliveble Sheed but....
Why Flip uses the park bench thus little? Dice ..Carlos Hunter and Maxiell hour they are much reliable

NO ONE has a better recap than when Warthog is at the game giving us the info from in-side. Id pay 1/ of your season tickets if I knew u would d o a column after every game. i still think for three qtrs are fans are among the worst in the league. McDyess made a great defensive play on Bosh and Bargghetti, and as far as TV goes , I heard nothing.
Im trying to get a nickname for your columns and all i can come up with...its funny and its with all respect...is THE HOGWASH!
i know it sounds negative, but its a great title for those who "get it."

Also, great call by Coach dolphin going with the Stretch Team late in the 4th. No team can match up with Delf, Rip, Cb and Hunter with Sheed as the 5 , defensively. Got to give it to him...

haha thanks man. i'll definitely try to do them for the important games and playoffs. i was impressed at flip's rotations in the 4th too, instead of just sticking with the 'starting 5', he brought in max for some defense, and then brought in delfino later. i like that lineup a lot too, getting the excellent defense from hunter, rip, delfino, and sheed, while getting the offense of chauncey, rip, and sheed.

oh and another thing i forgot to mention - rip is bad at giving entry passes on the block. twice the raptors knocked his attempts away when he tried to get the ball to sheed. chauncey had no problems with this. it appears our other guards (and many around the league) struggle with passing down on the block, even though it sounds easy.

On the downside, Sheed did pick up his 15th tech from one of the worst refs. Courtney Kirkland.


I'm wondering which refs are good for us and which are bad. It would be interesting to see the splits.

I used to think refs that let the teams play would be better for us, but I'm not sure if that is true anymore. We shoot good free throws, and are typically not strong in the paint.

The playbook pulled a rug over my eyes and probably others. I used the "Webber playbook" notion in a way to show that the Pre-Webber offense was not much of an offense at all. Right, Lee and Micro, Webber comes in and suddenly the ball moves and we look like the team most of us thought we had. That sounds like a good playbook to me.

In this game we got away from Webber some but Sheed can go off like he did because we have Webber drawing a lot of attention. As good as Sheed is and can be, leaving Webber will hurt a team faster than playing off Sheed. Can the NBA adjust to this new tandem? That will be an ongoing question. What is remarkable is that we don't need Chauncey's points every night with Webber there.

Phil Jackson thinks that the key to the Pistons will be if they can keep up the defensive intensity. We do seem to have trouble with quick, 3 ball shooting teams. Anyone with ideas why? 92 points by Toronto is a bit much (we need to hold teams to under 90 in the regular season to win in bunches). But you can't play up every game. We would have lost this game a month or so ago.

Maxiel's play has been a disappointment to me lately. He looks raw like a rookie. I am waiting for Joe to make a move for that second unit.

ALL I KNOW IS:

1. Chris Bosh was the number 4 pick in the draft. 1)Lebron 3) Anthony and 5)Wade and who did the Pistons take number 2 again? How's that Darko guy working out for us? And who did we get back in trade? This will go down as the worst draft in our Michigan sports history.

....thats all i know.:sssh:

And they are all going to the All Star Game except the No. 2 pick.

If Toronto had Darko on their team, they would have some interior defense and a good chance to beat us. As it is, they have no interior D and this game will be a cakewalk for the Pistons.

If Toronto has Darko on their team, we would have Bosh on our team. And we still gonna kick their %%%%%.

And if Boston had Darko on their team, they would be on a 17 game winning streak.

And maybe owned the best record in the league...:pound:

Maxiel's play has been a disappointment to me lately. He looks raw like a rookie. I am waiting for Joe to make a move for that second unit.

Only 4 games this year > 5 rebounds and a total of 10 assists on the season. That's 1 assist for every 50 minutes of court time. You would think that if you're a threat in the post, you would get easy assists just by kicking it out once in a while.

He tore it up in the pre-season. I don't know if it is a confidence problem or what. That goon squad breakout game really pumped me up, and then not much since.

Second half player notes:

Wallace: dominated Bosh and Bargnani on both ends... a phenomenal post-up display... hit outside jumpers... passed from the block... excellent defense... caused about five turnovers in the third quarter as well as making his man miss... a magnificent game


It's always great to have Sheed play like this. It seems to me he's been playing with more energy and enthusiasm since Webber got here. Maybe he really needs a star playing beside him to be effective (Sabonis, Ben, Webber). Go Pistons!


48-9


thats our record when Sheed scores 20 points or more, including playoffs since he joined the team in 2004.


Does Flip know this stat? Maybe he can DEMAND more post plays for Sheed. I believe only a handful of PFs in the league can stop him down low.

I believe only a handful of PFs in the league can stop him down low.

Who are those PF?

Roscoe how could Chauncey to both poor and good?
When you write a recap as you are passing out, that's what happens.

Good match unbeliveble Sheed but....
Why Flip uses the park bench thus little? Dice ..Carlos Hunter and Maxiell hour they are much reliable
They are too inconsistent.

Only 4 games this year > 5 rebounds and a total of 10 assists on the season. That's 1 assist for every 50 minutes of court time. You would think that if you're a threat in the post, you would get easy assists just by kicking it out once in a while.

He tore it up in the pre-season. I don't know if it is a confidence problem or what. That goon squad breakout game really pumped me up, and then not much since.
Max won't get assists because that aspect of his game doesn't exist right now. He's had his moments but since Webber came on, he's really struggled with his energy and ferocity.

Good blog entry at the Toronto Star

TheStar.com - Sports - This was one nigh (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/180540)

Last night, no one's struggles were more evident than Bosh's. The all-star was removed from his comfort zone by a tower of nasty experience named Rasheed Wallace. Wallace, at one point, posted up Bosh and scored with enough ease to remind you that fans don't vote players on to all-star teams – as they did Bosh – for playing defence.
This is pretty funny....
One Pistons loyalist brought a sign that screamed: "Reptile Dysfunction."

there were 2 raps fans sitting near us, and being extremely judgmental about all canadians based on these two, they like to look like euros and be annoying :P
Yo Loudmouth what do Euros look like? :MusicBigGrin:
GFreat game by Sheed- that's the way fans want him to play. Ok, he still jacked up some 3's, but I'm fine with that as long as he goes to the zone as he did yesterday.
Unfortunately, not much bench play. I won't ever get it why DD is getting no stint since he showed that he's still decent. At least Tay played less than 40.

Roscoe, I went to that Toronto Star link. Here was the first paragraph:

While acknowledging the loudening buzz emanating from his club the other day, Sam Mitchell, the Raptors coach, pointed out his roster's relative anonymity. Said Mitchell: "The names on the back of the jerseys don't scare you."

Is this some sort of Canadian word, or is Dave Feschuk just an idiot?

I am unfamiliar with his work.

Postgame Coaches comments...

Flip Saunders and Sam Mitchell

Besides not being able to cover strong low post centers, CWebb just isn't going to get it done defensively against a small ball jump shooting lineup. No surprise, and nothing that says he isn't going to contribute a lot, but CWebb at -11 and Delfino at +15 for the game last night tells you a lot. I like that Flip is willing to sit him down when it's not working (like in the fourth last night), but ride him when it is (like last game).

Might be time to shut Dice down for a week or so. This rib thing on top of whatever was wrong with him before isn't going to get better without some rest. He looked like he had gained 20 pounds last night from all the padding wrapped around his middle. Could also have been the first charge Dice has taken all year (and perhaps on a bad call) - probably not the best thing given his condition. He's playing with heart though.

Got my Sheed bobblehead right here on my desk.

Only 4 games this year > 5 rebounds and a total of 10 assists on the season. That's 1 assist for every 50 minutes of court time. You would think that if you're a threat in the post, you would get easy assists just by kicking it out once in a while.

He tore it up in the pre-season. I don't know if it is a confidence problem or what. That goon squad breakout game really pumped me up, and then not much since.

sitting on the bench affects your game. when jmax came into the league he had a deadly 15 footer. he drove to the hole with force. his offensive game has taken a hit from the rust of inconsistent minutes.

His hunger and approach have tailed off since CWebb arrived. Simple as that. He spent all of last year on the bench and had no trouble shaking that "rust" off.

sitting on the bench affects your game. .... his offensive game has taken a hit from the rust of inconsistent minutes.

No doubt true. But also true that other teams know who he is now and what he can do, and are prepared to stop that. It's easy (relatively speaking of course) for a skilled unknown player to come into games and make a difference. The key for Max is to be able to add something else to his game to continue to force the opposition to adjust. Right now, if he isn't getting dunks on broken plays, he just isn't very effective.

That little cross the lane jumper was a nice wrinkle, but I can't tell if he isn't getting that because defenses have adjusted or because CB/LH isn't calling that play.

His hunger and approach have tailed off since CWebb arrived. Simple as that. He spent all of last year on the bench and had no trouble shaking that "rust" off.

No, his minutes have been reduced, plain and simple. You can't show a thing if you are not out there playing. Shaking off rust? Maxiell always seems to need about five minutes to get going in a game, which lately is all Saunders gives him. Saunders does not want Maxiell to succeed is the only conclusion I can draw.

How many minutes exactly does it take to box out? After a 4 year collegiate career, in his second year as a Pro, when does he exactly start boxing out his man and cleaning the glass?

How many minutes exactly does it take to box out? After a 4 year collegiate career, in his second year as a Pro, when does he exactly start boxing out his man and cleaning the glass?

i agree he hasn't been rebounding that great. he wasn't rebounding before webber got here. i will give you that though. but i think he was an offensive force before. i just can't believe he lost that because webber came. i think he was missing a few shots that were money in the preseason but now that flip has made his minutes inconsistent he is becoming inconsistent.

No, his minutes have been reduced, plain and simple. You can't show a thing if you are not out there playing. Shaking off rust? Maxiell always seems to need about five minutes to get going in a game, which lately is all Saunders gives him. Saunders does not want Maxiell to succeed is the only conclusion I can draw.
i don't know lee. i've seen him come in and score about 10 in 2 minutes. his minutes have been reduced but i think it may be his skills are rusty from not using them as much.

My theory is that CWebb came and changed the dynamic of the team. It impacted Jmax's position quite a bit and the guy hasn't been given time to adjust. He's been learning how to play in the pre-Webber Pistons now he needs to switch gears with very little time.

My theory is that CWebb came and changed the dynamic of the team. It impacted Jmax's position quite a bit and the guy hasn't been given time to adjust. He's been learning how to play in the pre-Webber Pistons now he needs to switch gears with very little time.

There is a fundamental change from Webber coming to the team. All the sudden, JMAX is getting easy looks from pretty close in, perhaps a range he is not use to. They say those 4 to 8 footers can be tough. JMAX just needs a lot of practice making the easier shots. (Which would mean actual playing time, which only the coach can give him. Making the shots in practice does help, but without validation from a real game, practice can't do that much.)

Who are those PF?

Er... good question. Come to think of it, when Sheed is playing to his potential, nobody can really STOP him. I was thinking maybe JO, Duncan or Zo can SLOW him down somewhat in the paint, but when his inside-outside game is on, that's another story.

Yo Loudmouth what do Euros look like? :MusicBigGrin:
GFreat game by Sheed- that's the way fans want him to play. Ok, he still jacked up some 3's, but I'm fine with that as long as he goes to the zone as he did yesterday.
Unfortunately, not much bench play. I won't ever get it why DD is getting no stint since he showed that he's still decent. At least Tay played less than 40.i still think the thing thats gonna get us is Saunders' terrible knack of playing to the other team instead of letting us just bully them to victory...

Yo Loudmouth what do Euros look like? :MusicBigGrin:

ya know, hair spiked/raised in the middle of their head (faux-hawk), very skinny, wear pants that are too tight and shirts/jackets that are too tight and don't go past their waste. haha

and yeah roscoe, the 'reptile dysfunction' sign was showed on palacevision, pretty funny.

from that toronto star article, it reminded me of something else i forgot to mention - mason's attempts at pronouncing the raptors' player names was hilarious. garbajosa ranged anywhere from 'garba-hose-a' to 'garba-jarba', and bargnani ranged anywhere from 'bargie-narnie' to 'bargia-narnia', or the last time (like the article said), mason said 'barn...' and left it at that haha.

Er... good question. Come to think of it, when Sheed is playing to his potential, nobody can really STOP him. I was thinking maybe JO, Duncan or Zo can SLOW him down somewhat in the paint, but when his inside-outside game is on, that's another story.


I concur.

Besides not being able to cover strong low post centers
Like who? I thought those were the only players he could cover defensively.

If you're talking about Andrew Bogut, Bogut isn't really a post-up scorer - he gets the majority of his points facing and driving (which Webber obviously doesn't have the footspeed to defend against). But I'd say that he's done a fine job against mostly post-up scorers like Boozer and pure shooters like Garnett.

Who are those PF?
Jason Collins and Jeff Foster. Occasionally KG and Udonis Haslem. And Darko, of course.

Jermaine O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning are good help defenders but not the greatest post defenders out there, and while Timmy is a phenomenal all-around defensive player, Rasheed is familiar enough with his game (and has a big enough advantage athletically) that he can score consistently against him.

His hunger and approach have tailed off since CWebb arrived. Simple as that. He spent all of last year on the bench and had no trouble shaking that "rust" off.

Really? You take out the last few "Garbage time" games last season and he shot sub-40% from the field. The difference is, last year, he was the focus in garbage time. He could just chuck up shots at will. Plus, guys are more sloppy in garbage time, so he's getting easy putbucks and transition points.

To me, I think he needs to be more involved when he gets in the game. And not just post-ups. Get him on some pick and rolls with Chauncey or Delfino to get him some open shots.

First though, he needs to figure out how to rebound. He needs to take lessons from Delfino, who attacks the ball off the glass as hard as he does any aspect of his game.

I forgot Kwame Brown.

Jason Collins and Jeff Foster. Occasionally KG and Udonis Haslem. And Darko, of course.

Jermaine O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning are good help defenders but not the greatest post defenders out there, and while Timmy is a phenomenal all-around defensive player, Rasheed is familiar enough with his game (and has a big enough advantage athletically) that he can score consistently against him.

You are kidding right?

No. That's not really a slight, since I consider Collins, Foster, and Brown three of the best four post defenders in the NBA (along with Rasheed himself).

No. That's not really a slight, since I consider Collins, Foster, and Brown three of the best four post defenders in the NBA (along with Rasheed himself).

When has any of them defended Sheed well? Not saying they haven`t, I would like to know when, if you know.

Rasheed Wallace NBA Comparison 2007 - Ra (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/detroit-pistons/players/rasheed-wallace/comparison/07/8/119/257)

Rasheed Wallace NBA Comparison 2007 - Ra (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/detroit-pistons/players/rasheed-wallace/comparison/07/8/119/179)

Rasheed Wallace NBA Comparison 2007 - Ra (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/detroit-pistons/players/rasheed-wallace/comparison/07/8/119/153)

Obviously that's imprecise. I remember last year's game in L.A. being an excellent defensive performance from Brown; Collins shuts down Rasheed almost every time they play; and Foster doesn't match up as well on the perimeter but really bothers him on the block (Garnett and Haslem have the opposite problem).

That is a very cool stat site... :drool:

How many minutes exactly does it take to box out? After a 4 year collegiate career, in his second year as a Pro, when does he exactly start boxing out his man and cleaning the glass?

This is the NBA. What works in college does not translate into the NBA game all that well. When do you boxout? If we ever have to suffer Mohammed playing again, you will see he boxes out while the offensive player is drivng for a dunk. Completely out of place. There is a precise moment when you go from defending to blocking out. Part of the rythm of the game. The NBA and college are both basketball, but they have different rythms.

I think DBA touched on this fairly well... Teams are adapting to Maxiell...
When he receives the ball down low how often will it be kicked back out?... I would guesstimate about 1 out of 10 times... so what does the defensive team do?... of course, pack it in or double him... he needs to share the ball to ease the inside pressure.
Dice is similarly selfish but he compensates with pump fakes (to draw fouls) and fade aways to to convert his attempts.

As for Sheeds dominance last night... well it's about damn time! lol
Seriously it's gr8 to see him working harder to draw the inlet pass... I'll have to start calling him 1-4-3 now instead of 1-4-10 (good games to sleepers)... when he puts together 2 or 3 of these kind of efforts then I'll get excited... go ahead... I enjoy the taste of leather.

I think DBA touched on this fairly well... Teams are adapting to Maxiell...
When he receives the ball down low how often will it be kicked back out?... I would guesstimate about 1 out of 10 times... so what does the defensive team do?... of course, pack it in or double him... he needs to share the ball to ease the inside pressure.
Dice is similarly selfish but he compensates with pump fakes (to draw fouls) and fade aways to to convert his attempts.

As for Sheeds dominance last night... well it's about damn time! lol
Seriously it's gr8 to see him working harder to draw the inlet pass... I'll have to start calling him 1-4-3 now instead of 1-4-10 (good games to sleepers)... when he puts together 2 or 3 of these kind of efforts then I'll get excited... go ahead... I enjoy the taste of leather.

Just where in a five minute stint is JMAX going to establish anything. Last time he got good minutes in a game, he produced very well-and that got his minutes cut. Very predictably so. Flip has an agenda that apparently does not include JMAX from being much a part of things in the playoffs.

Just where in a five minute stint is JMAX going to establish anything. Last time he got good minutes in a game, he produced very well-and that got his minutes cut. Very predictably so. Flip has an agenda that apparently does not include JMAX from being much a part of things in the playoffs.
Of course he would improve by playing more than 5 minutes per... but our bigs are not logging major minutes and they are a better option for those minutes right now (unless Sheed goes on another two week funk).
You don't have to repeat your desires for Jmax to play SF... I would think that Joe (he said he's only a PF) and Flip know a little more about his mobilty for covering smalls... Corliss didn't have to be concerned about the no touch rules.... There may be matchups @ SF that would work though... with bulky players like Artest & Patterson we could use a more physical presence.

Jason Collins and Jeff Foster. Occasionally KG and Udonis Haslem. And Darko, of course.

Jermaine O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning are good help defenders but not the greatest post defenders out there, and while Timmy is a phenomenal all-around defensive player, Rasheed is familiar enough with his game (and has a big enough advantage athletically) that he can score consistently against him.

Admittedly I have not seen much of the games, but I always feel that IF Sheed's head is in the game, his postup, turnaround, fadeaway with arms stretched move is almost impossible to defend, much like KG's. And with CB & CWebbs's passing skills, Sheed and the rest of the pistons will be much harder to defend.

Correct me if I'm wrong, during the regular season Sheed tends to bring his A game only when up against premier PFs (or when he gets T'eed up). Maybe he get bored when he sees Collins and Foster's faces haha.... no motivation to dominate....

Unless we meet the pacers and nets in the playoffs, I won't be able to watch these match ups again this season. But I'm sure I'll get the info I need from this great forum. Thanks :)

How bout Joey Graham's sweet dunk on Delfino?! That was sick, wicked and nasty!