SanAntonio Feb 14 7:30PM

tv: tv20

1st meeting of the year. Pistons won both games last season by wide margins.
Also, last game before the All-Star break.

This is the one I've been waiting for...
A perfect matchup before the allstar break... giving Joe all the data he needs prior to the deadline...
Can we beat the elite West teams with the new look.
Can we defend the Spurs slashers and T.D.'s inside out game.

This is gonna be very entertaining.

Gotta enjoy this one. It's our last game for nearly a week!

It looks like the Pistons have reloaded with Webber, and the Spurs are still searching for defensive consistency and a set rotation. What a difference two seasons makes.

I have a feeling this will be a payback game for Tayshaun. Webber frees him up on the baseline from double teams, and neither Manu or Finley will be able to contain him.

I hope Delfino has a huge game against his pals Oberto and Ginobili. It would be fun to see JMax eat up Horry, Bowen and Duncan.

SPURS: Spurs Acquire Melvin Ely (http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/melvin_ely_070213.html)

SAN ANTONIO -- The San Antonio Spurs announced today that they have acquired Melvin Ely from the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for Eric Williams and a second round pick in 2009.

"It would be fun to see JMax eat up Horry, Bowen and Duncan."
Get real or Dream on.
Parker can't seem to please Pop. He's either to fast for his teammates or out of sync in some way.
Let's do these cats.
Ps 95
BSAs 89

I give the edge to the Pistons here. Hard to say how SAN will respond after their big win over the Nets and I am not sure how they are on back-backs. They have incentive to get this win so they can come home salvaging a 3-2 record on this East coast swing.

SAN has had a problem winning at the Palace lately. Their last win here was back in the 05 Finals when Horry hit the game winning 3.

Pistons have been trouncing everyone lately so hopefully that will continue going into the break. For the sake of the Forum I sure hope the Pistons win or its going to be a very long weekend around here.

I caught a couple of minutes of the talking heads on ESPN last night diagnosing the woes of the Spurs. Bottom line - the Spurs miss the defensive dominance they had with Mohammed and Nesterovic. Oberto and Elson just don't supply the same toughness inside.

Or not.

Far be it for me to question Pop, but I think he made a BIG mistake letting Rasho go for Eric Williams and Matt Bonner. Timmy needs a slow moving stiff next to him to provide some backup around the rim.

Despite the failings of Nesterovic and Mohammed, Elson is not as good as either of them, and Oberto doesn't have a lot of chemistry with Duncan.

The Spurs are getting old fast. The Pistons face similar prospects next year if Dice and Hunter return.

Seems to me Oberto needs the ball to be all that effective and there is a long list of guys in front of him assuming some of them can break the 40% shooting mark.

Elson has the potential to anchor that defense and actually move around the court some (e.g., the anti-Rasho). Unfortunately he has been hurt and even worse, it's not potential the Spurs need right now.

Manu comes off the bench. I want to see him and Delfino matched up. Hopefully both C-Webb and Sheed have their game on and get TD in foul trouble. Chauncey should dominate Parker, but Pistons have to stop dribble penetration or SA wins.

I think the Pistons will win this one. San Antonio is struggling this season and I hope the Pistons go into all-star weekend with a 8 game winning streak and not a loss.

I hope the pistons get up and play hard knowing they can rest easy right after.

I'm hoping for a tooth and nails battle with no injuries to either side.

This is one of our few decent rivalries. Let's see a rivalry game!

I will say this again, the zone has been working at times, let`s see what it can do against the lightning quick Tony Parker and the slashing Ginobili.

I will say this again, the zone has been working at times, let`s see what it can do against the lightning quick Tony Parker and the slashing Ginobili.
I was going to say this too.... this is the ultimate test for our perimeter and help D... it could get ugly at times.

Chat is open.

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Kudos to Tayshaun Prince for finding a way to hide in front of 22,000 people. He has 1 rebound to show for 15 minutes of court time.

Wow, what an whooping the Pistons endured that first 24 minutes. If they shoot like this the rest of the game, they'll be lucky to score 60 points. Thank goodness Rip and Lindsey (of all people) hit some shots, or this would be a complete debacle.

Hopefully the Spurs cool off in the 3rd quarter and the Pistons can cut the lead to below 10 (if they can hit some shots).

An entertaining first half. Nobody except Lindsey Hunter has done anything for Detroit, but you have to give the Spurs credit for just being a better team.

Edit: "anything" probably goes too far. Rip's shot well and Tayshaun is making a difference on defense for once and working hard on the offensive glass.

Both Tay and Delfino will need to get out of the 0-fer category in the second half for the Pistons to have any chance. I also would've liked to see Sheed get some free throw attempts to go with his 9 first half shot attempts.

Spurs are going to be in a battle to be in the top 4 out West. I'd like to see the Pistons compete in the second half just for the sake of it.

Wow, Elson really outshining any Piston front court player...12 pts and 15 boards by the end of the 3rd. Think Nazr would've posted those numbers by this point in a Spurs uni?

I'm hoping for a tooth and nails battle with no injuries to either side.

This is one of our few decent rivalries. Let's see a rivalry game!

well, at least you got nails...


...in our coffins

Disappointing loss tonight. Starters got down by a bit in the first quarter, the bench made things a lot worse, and then the starters came back in and made it even worse still, as the Spurs went up 16 at the half. Third quarter was a wash, and then a couple of late runs by the Pistons made it a little better cosmetically, but they were never really in the game. They got torched by Elson and even by Jacques Vaughan, who tore the Pistons apart at the end of the first quarter and on into the second.

We are not there--YET. Spurs are a hardened team having played the Suns and Dallas a bunch. We did not come out at that level. We cannot win without playing swarming-type defense the whole game--that is why I do not like a lot of zoning for this team.

The biggest problem is still the offense. The Spurs know how to play us--get up on Billips and close out the shooters. It is not that our shots weren't falling early more than we weren't open a lot. Our shots weren't falling in last years playoffs either. Is there a pattern? The Spurs have big trouble with speed and we don't have that to hurt them. Still, we did not attack enough.

The offense has no fall back scoring when we get into trouble. We have no default mode on offense. So you saw the same quick shots, off-kilter drives, etc. that we saw in the playoffs. I do blame the coach for not installing an NBA offense prior to Webber.

I do not blame the coach for the second team. Everyone has a favorite but the fact is that the second unit gets consistently outscored. It does not even play good defense. If our first unit falters early, we are in trouble.

We needed this to know where we need to go. Joe will make a move.

I see from people's comments here that a whole lot of people missed the game, even if they were watching it. Of course, with the announcers going on about a great performance Hunter had, I guess they can use that as an excuse.

Hunter did hit some shots, great. But some people miss the fact that he is our backup point guard. A backup point guard who played so poorly, as a point guard, that SA got way up on us while he was in. I will repeat: When did SA get the big lead? The moment Hunter came in the game, things fell apart. We need a backup point something fierce. Or a coach who is not blind. I will give Flip this; he only made us suffer for about a minute or so in the 2nd half with Hunter playing make believe that he is a point guard.

Rip remains rock solid as a scorer for us. Tay had a bad night with his outside shooting, and despite trying to go inside several times could not score against some pretty good D by SA. CB managed some scoring, but it was not what we wanted for the most part; he was forced to use a perimeter game because the inside game was not working.

Sheed hit a three or two, and like Tay, did try scoring in the post several times, but with at least some success. On D, Duncan scored plenty on Sheed, and Webber could not stop him either without a lot of doubling up.

Dyess was useless in this one. JMAX gave us a chance to come back at least with solid D in the 4th quarter. Why didn't JMAX get to play in the first half, again? Who knows. Far as I can tell, Saunders wants to ice Maxiell's shooting, so won't play him enough to get his offense going. Sound crazy-its not. Coaches do this. Flip has pretty much announced he wants to "start playing harder" after the all-star break. His way of saying he wants to shorten the rotation. Can't have JMAX doing too good.

Delfino played excellent in this game. Not much scoring, but great on D. When they let him bring the ball up, the ball got into the post in a few seconds, not with half the clock gone, or never, if Hunter brought the ball up. This is non-sense that Hunter ever brings the ball up at all.

No Dale Davis, but we sure could have used his D in this one. Webber could do nothing against SA's running game. He did help us with some scoring from the post, just not enough tonight to make up for being too slow. Not a good fit against this team. Even at his age, Dale Davis gets down as well as any big on transition D, and he should have been playing, even starting, this game. Still, even though it ended, good win streak. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Well so much for going into the break on winning note. This was supposed to be the NBA TV game of the night ..and it was for the Spurs.... It was only one loss, but one to an elite team that was struggling. Hopefully this tells Joe that in order to compete with those teams out west, we need to drop the verified dead weight in Nazr and Flip jr and replace them with one or two bodies who can fill in when one of our staters decides to turn in a deadweight performance. :) Yeah I am takling about you Tay. 1-8 shooting and 4 rebounds. Dice didn' t score but at least he had 2 steals and 2 blocks...

This game was lost in the first qtr when the Jacque Vaughn took the ball with 5 seconds left and dribbled coast to coast untouched by any Piston and handed off to Oberto for an and one situation that he cashed in on. That set the tone for the rest of the half and into the 3rd.

The Pistons opened the second defenseless and offenseless as the Spurs bench lead by Genobli effectively ended the game before the quarter was over. You knew the Pistons were in trouble when Hunter had 5 of your first seven points of the quarter at the six minute mark. How many of you really thought we would erase a 17 point halftime to lead to the Spurs. Is the bench of Genobli, Horry, Finly and Vaughn better than Hunter, Dice, Delfino and JMAX? Well tonight they were as all of the Spurs were focused for the whole game and ther Pistons were dreaming about vegas and vacation in the first 3 quarters.

The Pistons shot less than 34% for the first half while the Spurs were at 56%. I think they showed a graphic at half time where they were up 24-8 for points in the paint. The Pistons reversed that in the second half beating them 20-12, but it was just to much to over come.

They finally woke up and hit some shots in the 4th but to many perimeter shots in the first 3 quarters and all of the eazy shots refuse to fall where it seems that all of the Spurs shots fell. If we had a penetrator like Parker or had scorer off the bench like Genobli we be the favorite to win it all, not just win the east.
Winning the east is not enough Joe, :second: :(

I see from people's comments here that a whole lot of people missed the game, even if they were watching it. Of course, with the announcers going on about a great performance Hunter had, I guess they can use that as an excuse.
I hope you are copyng that from another board because it sounds really condescending.

The second unit gets consistently outscored. I wouldn't just put the onus on one player. But obviously we need help. That unit does not play good defense (even with Delfino and Hunter) and that too is a problem. They do not stop people either.

But our First Unit was outplayed but a toughened SA team. It was the same old (playoff) story--jam up Billips and take away the shooters. Now the shots are somewhat contested and we miss.

The adjustment? There is no immediate adjustment. A different guy takes the contested jumper. We finally started to will our way out of it as we attacked what is basically a slow SA unit. But then too, some wild drives and quick shots took away our momemtum.

I am not worried. We needed to have a thumping to know where we have to go. With Chris, the offense can improve.

Sprocket says…

The Pistons seven game winning streak ends tonight at the hands of the Spurs. For the past several games superior Piston execution on both the offensive and defensive end of the floor made them look as if they were playing at a different speed than the opposition. Tonight the Spurs took advantage of cold Pistons shooting and out-executed them when it mattered to gain the nine point win that was only close in the first and last five minutes of the game.

The Pistons start the first quarter cold missing two close in shots in the first two minutes. A couple of Pistons turnovers on top of five missed shots by Rasheed, including two threes, puts the Spurs up by six. The Spurs have already subbed for Barry and Duncan by the time the first Pistons reserves enter the game. With Duncan on the bench from around the three minute mark of the first until he returns at about the eight minutes mark of the second the Spurs continue the pace, outscoring the Pistons by six more to make a twelve point lead. The Pistons get scrappy near the end of the first, but still lose another five points to the Spurs and the half ends with San Antonio up seventeen. Duncan in, Duncan out, makes no difference to the pace of the Spurs scoring.

San Antonio looks too quick for the Pistons in the first half, outscoring them on the break eleven to two in the first quarter. In a blow for South American basketball fans everywhere, the first quarter ends with three Argentines in the game. All told the Spurs shoot 56% in the first half to the Pistons 32%.

The third quarter begins in a seesaw fashion with the Spurs adding one point to the lead by the seven minute mark. The Pistons try to zone (first time in the game?) on consecutive possessions leading to two stops. At a timeout around the three minute mark Pop jumps all over Tony Parker despite Parker’s line of six for ten from the field with seven assists and two steals. It works though as the Spurs suddenly solve the Piston’s zone with quick cuts to the middle. Elson for San Antonio has 12 points and 15 boards by the end of the third, including two layups against the zone.

The Pistons finally begin to play with a bit of desperation in the fourth led by Carlos Delfino with a block, a steal, a couple of rebounds, and a coast to coast drive for two. The lead is cut to twelve at the six minute mark when Delfino goes to the bench for good. Lindsey Hunter, perhaps having followed the PF thread about how poorly he is shooting, goes three for three from three, including one in the run. But, the Pistons miss two more close in shots, and Duncan makes an all-star move against Sheed for a basket while Parker drives for a very tough layup. The Pistons continue to push but can get no closer than seven as the Spurs shoot eleven for twelve (13-14?) from the stripe in the fourth.

Detroit pulls its final shooting percentage up to 41% for the game, but the Spurs shoot well enough in the second half to end at 50%. The Pistons are outrebounded by 10 and end up four down in the assist column. Prince and Dice have particularly unmemorable games shooting one for eleven combined with only five rebounds. Delfino and Wallace also shoot poorly, 1-5 and 5-15 respectively. Without these four the remaining Pistons shoot 25 for 47, better than the Spurs.

We can toss around much blame for why this game was lost; one reason really stands out to me - rebounds!

Did anyone notice CB was our leading rebounder along with Sheed with seven!! In 15 minutes Delfino had six......WTF is that??

You would think somebody would put a body on Elson or whatever his name is.........he looked like Dennis Rodman or somebody...

Let`s hope the Pistons were just looking ahead to the break.........

microcap.

I last got up for the Raptors game. That was a good one. Tonight, I was plagued by the all to familiar distant relative call late in the second half that takes away from watching the game all the way out.

Of course, suficient liquid refreshment will help numb watching your team absolutely come out flat and get dominated by a rival.

I hate to sound like a party pooper but there were really no silver linings on this cloud for me. It was mostly hail, thunderbolts and monsoon showers.

Early on I knew we were in trouble unless we could settle down and establish a serious push. Delfino was posting up, Billups was trying to drive and make plays deep in the paint and we were not going to Webber to set up our offense.m We played totally out of character, either by design, laziness or the Spurs imposing their will.

The Spurs were simply faster rotating and seemed to force us into jumpers or baseline post ups where they could double and retreat.

Conversely, we tried to play zone, which the well coached Spurs picked apart, and our man defense looked like man/zone with too many players floating without taking individual responsibility for their guy.

I credit Flip Saunders for pulling out Tayshaun quite a bit in the first half. He was so ineffective this game, you have to wonder if he will ever develop a killer instinct, particularly when guarded by Brent Barry.

To my dismay, Flip neither flipped out on Leon Wood (the former Spur, now referee) nor did he try to establish a grind it out lineup with rarely used Dale Davis. It was "our offense" or bust, and despite Flip's post game moaning about All-Star focus, you don't beat the Spurs in a running game when you aren't a running team. Good defense will always nullify good offense.

The Spurs rotated players early and often, it's one of my favorite Popovich traits. This allowed role players like Elson to dominate the paint and Jacque Vaughan to look like Vinnie Johnson.

Billups - did a lot but not enough and almost everything he did was out of character. With a size advantage against Vaughan and Parker, you would think that he would work his brilliant post up scoring to his advantage. He did not. On defense, he's a lazy help defender, and tonight the passsing attack of the Spurs exposed him out of place and caught in no mans land.

Rip - Had a fine scoring game, but did not make it to the line enough to pressure Popovich into making substitutions based on need.

Tayshaun - Disappointing effort. Shameful. 2 points in 31 minutes without an assist and Mr. Softy didn't make it to the line once.

CWebb - A good game, but was not given the opportunity to play out of double teams and create offense. Parker exposed his lack of athleticism and speed defending the paint. It was a clinic on how to score on him.

Rasheed had the task of guarding Duncan, which I thought he did ok at. His offense however was missing, and it all started with a soft post up against Elson. Seemed a step slow throughout the game and at times, too flabbergasted or uninterested to even get his arms up for rebounds.

Lindsey Hunter had the kind of game he needs to have against a team like this. 3 triples kept the fans in their seats when the team was having trouble generating any momentum.

Delfino and McDyess were both disappointing. Dice played nice defense but was unable to pressure anyone with his scoring. 6 boards show some work in the paint, but not enough against the longer Elson and Duncan. Delfino played some good hustle basketball, but the lack of a jumpshot continues to plague him, as well as the ability to play the P&R. Not that this was exclusive to Delfino, as the Pistons were taken apart by the pick all night.

Maxiell, please people.

I don't know what the coaches are coaching, but there was no changeup in how we defended the P&R all night. It was tough to watch.

The Spurs are a veteran team, finishing up an EIGHT game road trip. We had them at home on a day's rest and didn't approach this game with any seriousness.

It's only one game, but certainly disheartening from a team that seems more interested in taking their midseason vacations or rubbing elbows with William Wesley at the All-Star game than sending a message to the West that the Pistons are not to be trifled with.

Some folks will call for a trade, but when you're flat, one guy off the bench won't make a difference. This was a mail in, and had I known that before hand, I probably would have written "Return to Sender" on the envelope.

Despite the failings of Nesterovic and Mohammed, Elson is not as good as either of them,



Well wasn't that a jinx waiting to happen. :)

I pray for the day that the Pistons don't make opposing mediocre bigs look like all-stars on a regular basis.

In my defense, that was a career game for him. He hasn't had a double digit rebounding game all season.

Let's just put me down as a poor fortune teller. :(

Micro,

Excellent recap. Agree. Everything we did was out of kilter. But now they know the offense needs to go Chris-side out (ball to Chris and work off that) a lot more of the time.

This team can't win against the good teams without a defense first approach with steals and blocks and close outs.

lapiston, some might think I am a bonehead for liking the Spurs, but their style of fundamental, "smart" basketball is enjoying to me.

They outsmarted us. We didn't adjust defensively to what they were doing, and we did not even try our new offense, and then late tried to catch up by hoisting treys.

We could have played Davis on Duncan, allowing Sheed and Webber to spread the floor, but didn't. Timmy ate us up inside, Manu killed us off the pick and roll and someone needs to sit Tony Parker down on his keister really hard and remind him why the big guys play in the paint.

We do not have a shotblocker on this team. No paint intimidator. Teams are going to come after us. We have to execute on offense and make smart defensive adjustments.

Micro,

Excellent recap.

I'll ditto that.

The lack of team speed was front and center this game... They have been relying on the opponent to just make one or two passes... but the Spurs will make you work for 24 seconds.... It coulda been a lot worse... the Spurs missed numerous uncontested shots in the 1st qtr.
Their help and recovery was much better than ours.

Why we didn't iso Tay on Barry more is a mystery (or bad coaching/player decisions)...
1-4-3 was back at it again ZZZzzzzz.
Chauncey did a poor job of recognizing the double team... getting stripped numerous times.

Webb had his cement shoes on display tonight.
This game may have been the best thing that happened to the team all year... a reality check for the coach, players & GM.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seemed to me like we finally got a glimpse of playoff basketball. The easy points in the lane dried up. Our jumpers were contested. The calls were frustrating. And the importance of coaching was magnified.

It could be coincidental, but this is why I still think we are a piece or two short. Also, in this type of game, I think Webber gets somewhat neutralized and Dale Davis would make an impact.

Tayshawn,

Agree, that was a glimpse of playoff basketball and we aren't quite there yet. SA knows how to get into our offensive game by getting up on Billips and closing out well on the shooters. We have to make Chris more the focal point. Make them stop that first.

And coaching then comes into the equation and adjustments. I too agree with others that Davis would help against this team.

Agree about lacking the team speed but we can still attack this team and get into their game. Notice that they did have trouble with Rip.

Well, our guys know now that they are going to have to go out there and take it and step up another level.

I wonder what Joe is thinking?

I think that part of the problem was that we didn't show a sense of urgency until the game had slipped away from us. The past few wins came so easy, that we probably thought we could relax until the 2nd half. Delfino gave his trademark hustle and Lindsey was actually making shots tonight, which as least made this game respectable.

I'm really glad that Sheed didn't get T'd up, because he was obviously frustrated. It was either a nice job by him or by the refs to show restraint.

Because I was caught up in the game and not really analyzing it, I didn't even notice why Tay got shut down so badly. Who was Bowen guarding?

I think that part of the problem was that we didn't show a sense of urgency until the game had slipped away from us. The past few wins came so easy, that we probably thought we could relax until the 2nd half. Delfino gave his trademark hustle and Lindsey was actually making shots tonight, which as least made this game respectable.

I'm really glad that Sheed didn't get T'd up, because he was obviously frustrated. It was either a nice job by him or by the refs to show restraint.

Because I was caught up in the game and not really analyzing it, I didn't even notice why Tay got shut down so badly. Who was Bowen guarding?
Good points Tashawn...

as far as your boy, Tay, I don't recall who was checking him. He was 1-8 shooting, and I remember at least 5 outside jumpers including at least 2 from beyond the arc. He was blocked once under the basket.

Good opportunity to use this loss as good practice in not making any generalizations about our team over the long break. It was only one loss and the Pistons have managed to gain the only respectable record in the East at 32-19. If you want hoplessness then try visiting the Celtics board.

I think the appropriate word is San was struggling. They blew the doors off NJ the night before and I don't why this is but teams sometimes carry that momentum over into the next game of a back-back. I think San shot near 60% in the 1st half seemingly making almost everything at times.

It would have been nice if the Pistons had matched some of that, for some reason most of the team was already in vacation mode. At least the Pistons came back and made the game respectable. I felt as though we would have won if there was a 5th quarter. But there isn't and the Pistons could not get it done last night. No big deal, we will get another shot at the Spurs later in the season.

After the break we have Milw and a home-home against the Magic. Should be pretty good wins.

The day after...

Man, what a lousy way to send us off to All-Star weekend.

i'm glad we lost this game, but i'm not glad i had to waste my time and money at the palace heh. too bad no one is buying tickets this year. i'm glad we lost because now we won't go into the all-star break getting accolades by the media and everyone else. we need reality checks from time to time, which we never got last year during the regular season.

i take nothing from this game, good or bad. simply put, this one was mailed in after 3 minutes. we got good looks early, tay just messed up and couldn't finish, and overall led to a terrible game. i'm glad flip kept delfino in so long, and i wish he woulda kept him in there the remainder of the 4th quarter. lindsey and delfino were by far our two best players on the court.

the most accurate way to describe this game was that SA treated it like a playoff game, and Detroit treated it like a preseason game. or, when you have a practiced team playing against a pick-up team. even the atmosphere was like a preseason game.

there was horrible traffic and everyone showed up late. tons of guys brought their gf's and were more worried about getting them drinks than cheering (actually the women were louder than the men by far). i could have had a conversation with someone across the arena, and i could hear the hecklers courtside and actually make out what they were saying. there were 2 marriage proposals, the halftime entertainment consisted of 15 guys shooting a halfcourt shot, and mason wasn't even there to announce. at the start of the 4th quarter, there was one lower bowl section that had 30 out of 126 seats filled.

both the fans and players couldn't have cared less. even worse, the only women left at the end of the game were not attractive (all the good-looking ones had left with their dates by this point), and my buddy refused to go to captain's quarters to hang out with automotion (booo).

and there were definitely a few insanely hot ladies there who must've been paid pretty well to attend, if you know what i mean. :)

Bowen was checking Rip the whole game leaving Barry on Tay.

Bowen was checking Rip the whole game leaving Barry on Tay.

Ouch. 2 points with Barry guarding him?

Not a good statement to make the game before the all-star break from a guy who many thought was on the verge of becoming an all-star.

I guess Duncan must have scared him out of the paint. Tay is usually good for a couple tip-ins/ dunks per game.

Warthog - Hey it was still a sellout. Sellout of what I don't know but thats what they are claiming and claim every game.

That's really curious because they must be taking a beating on concession sales with the lower attendance. I wonder how much of a bump their advertising rates receive when they claim they are in a sellout streak.

I'm just blown away by the fact that Hunter was one of the only guys who actually played well and yet Lee still found a way to blame this loss on Lindsey.

That was easily Hunter's best game of the year. But the reason that I say that is probably because he happened to hit his shots. If he missed them, nobody would have been too impressed. His defensive effort is always there though. He becomes really effective when others ratchet up the defensive intesity as well. Last night, the other 4 guys were also doing some major harrassing during the comeback.

If Lindsey is the only one playing hard, the other team can easily just avoid him.

Tay got called out in the ESPN Daily Dime (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime) this morning. Oops.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2600/worstre1.png

Yeah, it was a good ole fashioned beat down. I guess T Parker is out of Pops doghouse.
Maybe we learned something about how not to play Spurs.
Save it for the playoffs.

I'm just blown away by the fact that Hunter was one of the only guys who actually played well and yet Lee still found a way to blame this loss on Lindsey.
Lee's the kind of guy that would blame the country's growing obesity problem on little 7 year old girls selling girl scout cookies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:stirthepot:

i'm glad we lost this game, but i'm not glad i had to waste my time and money at the palace heh. too bad no one is buying tickets this year. i'm glad we lost because now we won't go into the all-star break getting accolades by the media and everyone else. we need reality checks from time to time, which we never got last year during the regular season.

i take nothing from this game, good or bad. simply put, this one was mailed in after 3 minutes. we got good looks early, tay just messed up and couldn't finish, and overall led to a terrible game. i'm glad flip kept delfino in so long, and i wish he woulda kept him in there the remainder of the 4th quarter. lindsey and delfino were by far our two best players on the court.

the most accurate way to describe this game was that SA treated it like a playoff game, and Detroit treated it like a preseason game. or, when you have a practiced team playing against a pick-up team. even the atmosphere was like a preseason game.

there was horrible traffic and everyone showed up late. tons of guys brought their gf's and were more worried about getting them drinks than cheering (actually the women were louder than the men by far). i could have had a conversation with someone across the arena, and i could hear the hecklers courtside and actually make out what they were saying. there were 2 marriage proposals, the halftime entertainment consisted of 15 guys shooting a halfcourt shot, and mason wasn't even there to announce. at the start of the 4th quarter, there was one lower bowl section that had 30 out of 126 seats filled.

both the fans and players couldn't have cared less. even worse, the only women left at the end of the game were not attractive (all the good-looking ones had left with their dates by this point), and my buddy refused to go to captain's quarters to hang out with automotion (booo).

and there were definitely a few insanely hot ladies there who must've been paid pretty well to attend, if you know what i mean. :)
They showed a guy proposing to a girl on the jumbotron, but I swear it didnt look like she accepted. She never took the ring and she looked shocked. Eventually, the guy just left the ring on her lap before the camera cut away. Did u see that?:pound:

That was easily Hunter's best game of the year. But the reason that I say that is probably because he happened to hit his shots. If he missed them, nobody would have been too impressed. His defensive effort is always there though. He becomes really effective when others ratchet up the defensive intesity as well. Last night, the other 4 guys were also doing some major harrassing during the comeback.

If Lindsey is the only one playing hard, the other team can easily just avoid him.
IF HE MISSED THEM,NO one would be impressed? Duhh? I saw Micheal Jordan score 55 pts in mSG in his 4th game back from retirement. If he missed all his shots, I wouldnt have been impressed either......sheeeesh!

Yeah, it was a good ole fashioned beat down. I guess T Parker is out of Pops doghouse.
Maybe we learned something about how not to play Spurs.
Save it for the playoffs.
Pops vs Dolphin? N-C!!!...,,,,NOOO CHANCE....hmm, I wonder what CB and Sheed was saying to POPS after the game?...:sssh:

They showed a guy proposing to a girl on the jumbotron, but I swear it didnt look like she accepted. She never took the ring and she looked shocked. Eventually, the guy just left the ring on her lap before the camera cut away. Did u see that?:pound:

haha actually neither girl looked like she necessarily said yes. one mouthed it but it didn't look sincere, the other one had her head in her hands for a really long time. they both let the guys put on rings, but i bet at least 1 of those couples isn't lasting the weekend haha.

I'm just blown away by the fact that Hunter was one of the only guys who actually played well and yet Lee still found a way to blame this loss on Lindsey.

Well, he DID have the worst +/- on the team for the game at -11. He hit his shots that he usually misses, but still couldn't get the offense going. What's a PG for if he can't make his teammates better? He's not going to shut a team down on his own, and an offense is too reliant on a PG to have one that rarely makes plays offensively. Not that you can blame this particular game on him, but it's obvious he still needs to be replaced. I could deal with the horrid shooting percentage. I could deal with his awful fast-break. But I can't deal with a PG that can't initiate a halfcourt offense. The negatives just outweigh the positives way too much.

haha actually neither girl looked like she necessarily said yes. one mouthed it but it didn't look sincere, the other one had her head in her hands for a really long time. they both let the guys put on rings, but i bet at least 1 of those couples isn't lasting the weekend haha.

I think its one of those things where to the guy proposing at the Palace in front of thousands of fans seems like a great idea but not to the girl.

You can see her point.

Well, he DID have the worst +/- on the team for the game at -11. He hit his shots that he usually misses, but still couldn't get the offense going. What's a PG for if he can't make his teammates better? He's not going to shut a team down on his own, and an offense is too reliant on a PG to have one that rarely makes plays offensively. Not that you can blame this particular game on him, but it's obvious he still needs to be replaced. I could deal with the horrid shooting percentage. I could deal with his awful fast-break. But I can't deal with a PG that can't initiate a halfcourt offense. The negatives just outweigh the positives way too much.

I put about as much stock in +/- as I do in the "per 48 min" stat. It's great to try to make a point, but is ultimately useless in determining actual real life game-time wins and losses.


You know...I fail to see the urgency and all out tragedy in a guy who's job it is to bring the ball across half-court, hit the first guy running off a screen on either side, then run himself off the available screen on the opposite side. I've seen very few possessions this season, or any season, where Lindsey Hunter the "All Offense Killing Cancer" has failed to do this on numerous occasions.

If there is one thing Hunter does too often, it's pass the ball to the wingman a dribble to late on the break. However, he's done that his whole career and I see no reason to expect different since no coach has bothered to try and correct it.

You guys just hate Hunter for the sake of hating Hunter. This guy hasn't cost us any games. He hasn't been the sole reason that any team has laid the hammer to us and if left up to some of you, Hunter could cure AIDS tomorrow and have an entire thread torching him because he didn't cure cancer.

The guy does his job and his "ruining" an offense is just as overstated as Carlos Arroyo being the answer to our so-called "PG" woes.

I put about as much stock in +/- as I do in the "per 48 min" stat. It's great to try to make a point, but is ultimately useless in determining actual real life game-time wins and losses.


You know...I fail to see the urgency and all out tragedy in a guy who's job it is to bring the ball across half-court, hit the first guy running off a screen on either side, then run himself off the available screen on the opposite side. I've seen very few possessions this season, or any season, where Lindsey Hunter the "All Offense Killing Cancer" has failed to do this on numerous occasions.

If there is one thing Hunter does too often, it's pass the ball to the wingman a dribble to late on the break. However, he's done that his whole career and I see no reason to expect different since no coach has bothered to try and correct it.

You guys just hate Hunter for the sake of hating Hunter. This guy hasn't cost us any games. He hasn't been the sole reason that any team has laid the hammer to us and if left up to some of you, Hunter could cure AIDS tomorrow and have an entire thread torching him because he didn't cure cancer.

The guy does his job and his "ruining" an offense is just as overstated as Carlos Arroyo being the answer to our so-called "PG" woes.

Low, Hunter just lost this game for us. But besides that, are you saying you like Hunter as the backup point? If so, why didn't Flip go back to Hunter in the 2nd half for another 8 minutes of Hunter running the point? Or maybe he wanted to finally try and win the game? Anyway, you lambast us for pointing out what happened in this game, where SA went form 3 up to 15 up with Hunter at point guard. Rather than lambast us, please, by all means, defend Hunter. Tell us what he did during those 8 minutes that was so helpful, as a point guard, as the team fell way behind. Maybe it was someone else out there messing everything up. Again, seriously, we would love to hear your opinion about how those 8 minutes went.

hunter was one of our best players in the SA game along with delfino. you're statement that he lost the game for us is the most blatantly incorrect statement i've heard in a long time besides all of your terrible ones about darko.

Hello to all ....I have seen the game on NBA TV and the Palace was with many free places and little warm.....of usual for the teams hosts it is a...hell

Sorry for my english

Hello to all ....I have seen the game on NBA TV and the Palace was with many free places and little warm.....of usual for the teams hosts it is a...hell

Sorry for my english

Yes, except for weekends it has been a lot less crowded this season. It kind of surprised me with SanAntonio being in town.

Low, Hunter just lost this game for us. But besides that, are you saying you like Hunter as the backup point? If so, why didn't Flip go back to Hunter in the 2nd half for another 8 minutes of Hunter running the point? Or maybe he wanted to finally try and win the game? Anyway, you lambast us for pointing out what happened in this game, where SA went form 3 up to 15 up with Hunter at point guard. Rather than lambast us, please, by all means, defend Hunter. Tell us what he did during those 8 minutes that was so helpful, as a point guard, as the team fell way behind. Maybe it was someone else out there messing everything up. Again, seriously, we would love to hear your opinion about how those 8 minutes went.

I really didn't want to justify this with a response, however, this is just plain silly.

Yes, Hunter was responsible for guarding Duncan, Ginobili, Finley, Oberto, Barry, Bowen, and EVERYONE else on the Spurs roster along with Parker.

Yes, it was Hunter's defensive schemes that keep us playing a lame zone and when we were not in a zone, that kept us chasing the ball instead of staying at home with their defensive assignments.

Yes, it was Hunter that, without the ball mind you, forced the other Piston players to continue shooting jumpers instead of driving the ball to the basket.

Yes, I have again, seen the light. Sans Hunter....We are CHAM-PEENS OF THE WERLD!

I guess Lindsey's shooting in this game shouldn't count (one of the best on the team)... or that he did a much better job of containing Parker than Chauncey... the blinders are definitely on.

I guess Lindsey's shooting in this game shouldn't count (one of the best on the team)... or that he did a much better job of containing Parker than Chauncey... the blinders are definitely on.

Hunter, as our backup point, hurt us. He did ok paired with CB in the backcourt. Please try to separate the two things. Hunter the player, ok. Hunter the point guard, lousy. And his inability to run the point is mightily interfering with the develpopment of a bench. (Or you could say, Flip's refusal to use a point guard to backup Billups is hurting the team's chances at having a decent bench come playoff time. We have two guys on the team, Blalock and Delfino, who can do the job.

I really didn't want to justify this with a response, however, this is just plain silly.

Yes, Hunter was responsible for guarding Duncan, Ginobili, Finley, Oberto, Barry, Bowen, and EVERYONE else on the Spurs roster along with Parker.

Yes, it was Hunter's defensive schemes that keep us playing a lame zone and when we were not in a zone, that kept us chasing the ball instead of staying at home with their defensive assignments.

Yes, it was Hunter that, without the ball mind you, forced the other Piston players to continue shooting jumpers instead of driving the ball to the basket.

Yes, I have again, seen the light. Sans Hunter....We are CHAM-PEENS OF THE WERLD!

No, it was Hunter's complete ineptness as a point guard that left our offense in complete disorder, meaning SA got easy bucket after easy bucket off our poor shot selection. When an offense struggles like that, the other team does not have to spend much energy defending. Instead, they got their eyes set on easy scores the other way when we cough up the ball, or shoot with no defenders back, or give up long rebounds to trigger fast breaks for them. By the way, you can leave out the "silly" stuff. Please stick with basketball related arguments if you don't mind.

hunter was one of our best players in the SA game along with delfino. you're statement that he lost the game for us is the most blatantly incorrect statement i've heard in a long time besides all of your terrible ones about darko.

This ain't a Darko thread, so I won't go there. Other than saying I am wrong, can tell me whose fault it was we fell so far behind so quickly while Hunter ran the point at the end of the 1st quarter and start of the 2nd?

I feel this is a loss that can help the team in the long-term (can I call it a "good loss"?), because it reminds everyone, Joe D, Flip+staff, players, that the team cannot get complacent and cocky (like what happened last year) after 8 straight wins. There's still so much work to be done: defense, rebounding, game-time adjustments etc.

We are rolling but.... Miami is getting healthy. The Lebrons might get Bibby, the Bulls Gasol. The elite Western teams are just too strong right now.

This ain't a Darko thread, so I won't go there. Other than saying I am wrong, can tell me whose fault it was we fell so far behind so quickly while Hunter ran the point at the end of the 1st quarter and start of the 2nd?

if you were at the game you'd know that it was the starters' fault we never were in this game.

if you were at the game you'd know that it was the starters' fault we never were in this game.

The starters were plus for the game. The starters got off to a slow start, but they fought their way back to just 3 down in the 1st quarter. We had the momentum going our way up until the moment Hunter stepped onto the court.

No one was plus for the Pistons in this game.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - San Antonio @ Detroit (http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20070214&game=SASDET)

Tayshaun barely played with Hunter in this game and was -8, even with a +5 at the end with the starters.

If you ask me, Tayshaun did not do his part. His role and minutes are much larger than Lindsey's and Tay did nothing well in this one.

No one was plus for the Pistons in this game.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - San Antonio @ Detroit (http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20070214&game=SASDET)

Tayshaun barely played with Hunter in this game and was -8, even with a +5 at the end with the starters.

If you ask me, Tayshaun did not do his part. His role and minutes are much larger than Lindsey's and Tay did nothing well in this one.

Good try Micro, looking at popcorns you could be fooled. But the reality is that "barely" translates into 3 minutes, during which, you guessed it, we were negative 4. So Tay, minus his minutes with Hunter, was minus 4 for the game. Hardly worth mentioning. But hey, I think the discussion is really about Hunter at point. As a point guard, its not just this game, Hunter is heavily, I mean really, really, heavily minus, for the whole season. One game you can call a fluke, not a season. He does not help our D, and kills our O.

lee, you have posted that Hunter has played good D this season.

I agree about his effect on the offense.

Btw, -4 for tay against a shorter, less athletic player is nothing to excuse.

lee, you have posted that Hunter has played good D this season.

I agree about his effect on the offense.

Btw, -4 for tay against a shorter, less athletic player is nothing to excuse.

I said he does not help on D, compared to with him not in the game. The Pistons, being a good defensive team, set a high standard. Hunter is a good defender, just not someone we actually need to be a good defensive team. Flip Murray is not the only choice we have to play backup point besides Hunter. Both Delfino and Blalock will deliver plenty of D, and actually run the plays.

As for minus 4 in one game, you know as well as I that such a small statistical sampling, with a player being that close to break even, means nothing. Tay certainly did not have a good game, but it was not that bad to where it prevents us from winning this game.

I'm speaking specifically of this game. Tay let us down. In this game.

No, it was Hunter's complete ineptness as a point guard that left our offense in complete disorder, meaning SA got easy bucket after easy bucket off our poor shot selection. When an offense struggles like that, the other team does not have to spend much energy defending. Instead, they got their eyes set on easy scores the other way when we cough up the ball, or shoot with no defenders back, or give up long rebounds to trigger fast breaks for them. By the way, you can leave out the "silly" stuff. Please stick with basketball related arguments if you don't mind.

First, save the reprimands for your kids. Second, I believe the "silly stuff" was an item of your own manufacturing. Stop posting "silly stuff" and I'll stop calling you out for it. Now try sticking to reality related arguments if YOU don't mind.

"..how YOU doin?"

It's nice to see that Hunter is solely responsible for the TEAM'S shot selection. I'll keep that in mind when Chauncey is launching at will. I should not be upset with Billups or Prince or Hamilton for their choice of shot. I should remember that Lindsey Hunter has Jedi Mind Tricked them all into shooting poorly.

Oh, and Lee, these are not the droids you are looking for...

Boy, ain't it great that we have such a fine forum full of posters who can disagree without bloodshed? :D

Boy, ain't it great that we have such a fine forum full of posters who can disagree without bloodshed? :D

Yes indeed.

We can always race though!!!!!!!!:MusicBigGrin:

Yes indeed.

We can always race though!!!!!!!!:MusicBigGrin:
I dunno buddy, I got really fancy spokes on my BMX!

:gun1:

I forgot we are going to footrace! My bad Dlev.

You name the distance, I will pick the terrain.

I forgot we are going to footrace! My bad Dlev.

You name the distance, I will pick the terrain.

Depends on the amount of anger involved.

We can start at 5 miles - with a 10 mile max.................

Depends on the amount of anger involved.

We can start at 5 miles - with a 10 mile max.................

Roscoe is Canadian. He's much better at running kilometers. Excellent strategy selecting miles.

So where are the droids I'm looking for?

So where are the droids I'm looking for?

Hunter's hiding them in an escape goat pod

Hunter is like Dale he should be given a full starters minutes to get into full game mode, say once every 12 games? Other wise it's helter skelter, chicken with his head cut off type game. But he can't stay healthy either.

Hunter is like Dale he should be given a full starters minutes to get into full game mode, say once every 12 games? Other wise it's helter skelter, chicken with his head cut off type game. But he can't stay healthy either.

NOTE: All "you" references in the following post are used in the general sense and not in the specific sense (i.e. directed at Thee).

OK, judging from the fact that Thee is not the only person to ever suggest this, there must be some group of people that come up with these things. Where do you guys get these wild ideas?

There is NO coach in the history of the game of basketball that has ever dolled out starter minutes to one guy once every twelve games. Why? Because it's totally insane. Who would do this? Besides the fact that it would be totally useless in maintaining anything of value from a player that was played with that kind of minute scheduling. Nevermind the fact that playing someone like that is basically "injury insurance" (read: insurance that whatever player was used like this would almost be guaranteed to be injured).

I am totally at a loss why anyone would suggest such a nonsensical minute pattern for ANY player (not just Hunter). Along with who's responsible for reminding the coach when said player is due for his "starter minutes," I just can't understand why people continue to suggest this as a way to utilize ANY player. Additionally, the fact that NO ONE has EVER been used like this should be all the convincing a person should ever need that it doesn't make any sense.

If you think a guy shouldn't be played or kept on the roster, fine. Suggest his being waived, cut, bought out, benched, or traded. But, for the love of God, please stop with the cycling of minutes based on the rotation of the moon, playoff seedings in the NHL, and the occurance of leap year, along with the price of tea in China.

I get it that everyone but me and Hunter's mom want him banished from the NBA. However, suggesting that he get 35-40 min. once every 12 games, or 20 secs at the end of each qtr, or one possession per playoff series is just silly, in no "real world" situation would this ever happen to a guy and I will never understand the utter creativity with which people invent ways to limit minutes for the guy they don't like.

Don't want Hunter banished. Just don't want him to be the first PG off the bench. We need someone who can shoot and pass. Neither is his strength.

He's a good 4th or 5th guard. After 13 seasons, it is unreasonable to expect him to be playing heavy minutes, or hurting Billups by being unable to play heavy minutes.

I would love to go to dinner with Lindsey and talk basketball. I would love to see him brought in for key defensive possessions. But he's becoming like Ben, a player you have to consider pulling out if offense is needed.

Ronald Dupree gets that kind of treatment.

I guess it depends on whether or not you think Lindsey Hunter contributes more than Ronald Dupree.

However, Hunter does a decent job with the minutes he gets.

For my money, if I have to chose between Hunter, Blalock, and Murray.

Hunter wins every time.

Hunter will have some good games sometimes. In most games the other team goes on a run when he comes in. Not sure exactly why as it should not happen to that extent but it does.

Overall he has never been the ideal candidate. Every year Dumars has had to go out and find someone else before the end of the season.

I'm speaking specifically of this game. Tay let us down. In this game.

The Spurs have been in Tayshaun's head since the Finals when he was a complete no-show for 7 games. He never figured out how to pass out of the quick double team that consistently wasted 8-10 seconds of shotclock. I wouldn't expect much from him against them anytime soon.

Hunter will have some good games sometimes. In most games the other team goes on a run when he comes in. Not sure exactly why as it should not happen to that extent but it does.

Overall he has never been the ideal candidate. Every year Dumars has had to go out and find someone else before the end of the season.

This weekend, I reviewed every minute Hunter played, twice, for the month of February. He had one NBA acceptable game, against Toronto.

His shooting guard play for the month so far was ok, nothing great, but ok. His point guard play was absolutely atrocious, except for that one game. And even then, it was his good shooting that made him have a good outing, not really his getting other's easy baskets.

Bottom line, as a backup for CB, there is no way Hunter should be out there. As a backup for Rip, at least he is better than Flip Murray since he plays D. Sorry, but thats not saying much though.

Despite my great bias toward not seeing Hunter out there nearly so much, at least there is a trend for the month of CB playing less minutes. Slightly less, but less. In a few games, Hunter kept Billups off his feet for most of the 2nd quarter.

My biggest pet peave or whatever you want to call it? Hunter is usually the point guard when Maxiell is out there. This kills any chance for JMAX to be seen in a good light. JMAX is still doing some pretty good defensive rotating, but we do not get the benefit of his offense, nor the benefit of JMAX getting a comfort level on O that would move him up a level, making him even more valuable to us.

Delfino does continue to play quite a bit. And I like that. And when he acts as the point guard, the ball gets into the post almost before you think about it. In my opinion, Delfino should be getting all those backup guard minutes, not Hunter. Or even Blalock. Just in case anyone asks what my alternative is.

How many times do I have to tell you all that Hunter plays his best when he is the 2 guard playing with Billups at the 1. Then he is a surprise scorer with the rock given to him instead of him dribbling out the clock and he is forced to shoot or passes to someone else who only has a few seconds to shoot. The O is just out of synch when he runs it. Our misses, normally turn into ezy fast breaks on the other end.
:focus:

I thought this was the Pistons-Spurs game thread?

Bottom line, as a backup for CB, there is no way Hunter should be out there. As a backup for Rip, at least he is better than Flip Murray since he plays D. Sorry, but thats not saying much though.


I wouldn't worry about. Hunter was not in the plans to play such a role this season. Dumars guy for the backup 1/2 ( Murry ) failed at it and I am sure he is still in the process of finding someone else to play that spot. Then Hunter can be the low minute situational player that he was supposed to be this season.

Hunter is 6'2" 215 lbs. He's not a football DB. He should be about 195 lbs. I figure the extra weight [fat] would keep the muscle tears down but that's not happening.
I don't like having guys out of sorts [game ready] when you need them. You can hear their joints cracking when they stand up.
Lenz and Dale are vets that know how to play but you lose it fast if you don't get game experience.
How about starter minutes every 6 games?
I wouldn't be surprized if JD buys out Lenz before the year is out.

...How about starter minutes every 6 games?...

Hunter gets approximately 1 qtr of total play per game. At 13.6 mpg, that's completely acceptable and necessary for any player you feel you will need to play at any point.

The only players getting fewer minutes than Hunter are: Dale Davis, Will Blalock, Amir Johnson, and Ronald Dupree. I think that's pretty accurate as none of those guys should be getting more minutes than Hunter based on the contribution that Lindsey provides versus that of, say, Blalock or Dupree.

Lindsey gets probably exactly what he should be getting.