Cleveland March 7 7:30 PM

tv: tv20

Lebran James comes to town with the rest of the Cavs.

Down with the King! Down with Lebron!

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Why does this team insist upon crushing my soul?

Oh why, oh why does Flip play his starters to the bone (Tay playing major minutes)? Does he not think that anyone else on the team can contain Lebron? I'm pretty pissed that Delfino didn't even get in the 2nd half and Flip Friggin' Murray played twice as many minutes. The Pistons lost on the boards and took over 40 free throws so why isn't this a win again?

Bad, bad loss. No defense at all in the first quarter, but after it got better for most of the rest of the game, the D vanished again in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. And then when it returned in the last couple of minutes of OT, the offense suddenly vanished, with bad shot selection and choking on the ones that were makeable. The Pistons are struggling pretty badly now, and the schedule's not going to make it easy to right the ship.

Flip Murray outplayed Billups on defense. How sad is that?

Tayshaun played matador defense on Lebron all game.

Why we cannot defend the P&R and why our man goes over the top instead of under every time is a coaching problem.

Frustrating game. Sheed needs to keep sitting until he is right. He's playing on bad wheels.

Good games
Rip Hamilton: in 47 minutes, put up 29 points and played good defense
Carlos Delfino: in 6 minutes, played phen-omenal defense on LeBron and didn't see the second half

Decent games
Flip Murray: got to the line 6 times and actually got a stop on one of his defensive possessions
Chris Webber: in 41 minutes, lousy defense and missed a ton of shots, but rebounded well
Jason Maxiell: pretty good defense, but missed every shot he took
Antonio McDyess: 7&6 in only 11 minutes. That his defense was bad goes without saying, though

Bad games
Tayshaun Prince: in 46 minutes, got smacked around by James for at least 30 points. Pretty efficient offense, though
Chauncey Billups: in 45 minutes, nearly recorded a triple double, but missed 80% of his field goal attempts and a game-tieing uncontested layup in the clutch
Rasheed Wallace: not terrible defensively or on the boards, but missed almost all of his spot-up threes
Flip Saunders: Flip coached this like a playoff game.

A complete lack of offensive execution down the long stretch. Very poor execution for a contending team. This coach has had a long time to get the offense to a contending level. Do any of the other contenders in the NBA have this problem?

We need points from Billips to go where we want to go--assists are not enough. His shots have no consistency to them. We need to get him some good looks (even though he is the point). Sheed did not look ready and that hurt. So why was he shooting threes?

The defense was inconsistent. We have to hold teams to 90 in the regular season and around 80-85 in the playoffs.

Not afraid of Cleveland but am wondering if our offense can take us to the big dance.

Well, Webber got his first 20-10 game as a Piston. Quite impressive on the offensive end of the floor. Not bad at times on D, but lacking very much in covering the lane to the basket. Meanwhile, Sheed could not move well at all to start the game, and Cleveland took advantage, owning the inside. They got a pretty hefty lead on us.

The bench came in, Delfino, Murray, Maxiell, Dyess. And we pretty much tied the game back up. So why bring in the starters to end the 2nd quarter? Of course, to ensure we don't have anything at the end of the game. Sure we did ok there for those few minutes, but be assured, that coaching move lost us the game.

Billups had a good game, and yet a horrible game. Great when he was deciding to drive in, draw fouls, and get to the line. Horrible when he decided it was yet another opportunity to clank a missed three off the rim. You take away all those very ill timed treys both he and Sheed took, and we win this game easily enough. Of course, a decent coach would be needed to control his team. Joe Dumars should fire Saunders tonight, take over the team. It would be hard work sure, but we could win it all this year. Its worth it.

Rip had a fine scoring game and he spent quite a bit of time guarding Bron. He did not do so great at that, but for sure Rip put a lot of energy into the game. Bad shots? Not by Rip. He has a pretty darn good nose for when to take a shot.

Webber scored pretty much all his inside. A steal by him where he took it all the way down and dunked was the highlight of his game. Basically, Webber just knows how to score.

Dyess did a couple of good things, but his outside shooting, when not falling, hurts us. From what I can see, Dyess has enough of an inside game these days he should go back to that. Inside scoring is always more reliable, and we needed it mightily tonight.

Flip did good. Basically controlled his urge to shoot the ball every time he touches it. If he could do that consistently, and actually put effort into defense consistently, he would be a regular in the rotation.

Note, good D by Maxiell and Delfino got us back into the game in the first half. So Delfino is left out of the rotation in the 2nd half. Imagine that, no Hunter, and Delfino plays less. Its amazing how Flip can make a negative out of an opportunity.

Tay did some scoring for us. Good stuff. Yet against Cleveland, he should have been driving inside all night, not just on occasion. And in key situations, where we had to have a stop on Bron, Delfino should have been in the game, not Prince.

Not that bad a game overall after the first quarter. If Flip would have pulled Sheed out early in that first quarter, recognizing that Sheed was killing us by not being able to move, we would have never got so far in the hole. One loss. Oh well. At least JMAX played, and did quite well. GO PISTONS!!!!!

I know we went in to OT, but 40+mins for the CB, Rip, Tay & Cwebb is just plain dumb FLIP. Those guys played the last six minutes of regulation and all of OT which means they may have been "tired". Rip scores 10 pts in a row at one time in crunch time and OT, but no one else can hit a shot. Once again we waisted opportunities in the end by tossing up threes. (CB 0-6 from beyond the three and 2-10 overall). The eastern conference player of the month in February is 1-16 from beyond the arc in March. :brick:

We got back in this game in the second by going to the paint and getting fouled. Then of course the starters come back in and everything is jump shot or bad pass. They still haven't capitalized or mastered all of the sweet passes that Cwebb delivers yet. Two late ones blown when LBJ blocked Rip who was right under the basket and then in the closing minute of OT CB tries a reverse layup off of a nice Cwebb pass that barely gets over the rim.

This goes back to FLip again with those funky plays out of time out that didn't work , and his failure to convince Sheed to play down low. Once Z fouled out, both he and CWebb and should have been down low in those last 2 mins of OT to attack the rim!!! We may have beat them at the FT line 44 to 24, but they beat us in the pain 56 to 30.:frusty:

Not sure how we can miss Sheed for three games and Hunter for one and lose three of those and just barely beat the Grizzlies, but the Heat can miss Wade and Kopono and still blow out the Bulls??? Those 10 games that Hunter will be out will hurt more than we think. In the March poll someone thought that the Pistons would finish 15-2. Right now they would be lucky if the finish 6-11:yellowprison:

Not sure how we can miss Sheed for three games and Hunter for one and lose three of those and just barely beat the Grizzlies, but the Heat can miss Wade and Kopono and still blow out the Bulls??? Those 10 games that Hunter will be out will hurt more than we think. In the March poll someone thought that the Pistons would finish 15-2. Right now they would be lucky if the finish 6-11:yellowprison:e

B/C the Heat are sound defensively, and have a fantastic coach. We are sleeping defensively, and our coach is an idiot.

I was thinking back to the MIA game where those 2 drives happened at the end of the game (1 by Posey, the other i forget by who). At least 1 of those, if not both would've been a block/miss w/ our old defense.

We still try to grind out games, but we don't seem to be good enough to play that style anymore.

Hopefully this is just a case of Sheed being injured. After all, he IS our interior defense since DD is glued to the bench.

I'm still trying to figure out why we were jacking up 3's, and why Saunders calls time-outs to set up a play in the 1st place. It's not like they work . . .

e
I'm still trying to figure out why we were jacking up 3's, and why Saunders calls time-outs to set up a play in the 1st place. It's not like they work . . .

It's like he has this kneejerk reaction to call a timeout to quiet the crowd when his team is playing badly, and then remembers, oh yeah, we're at home.
:nopompom: :lame: :doh:

When we were pushing the 10 point lead in the 4th, I had a feeling the invisible hand would put them back in the game. And then it happened, the worst non-charge call of the season. Lebron coming around a screen like a freight train looking behind him for the ball. Maxiell standing like the English Royal Guard for approximately 23 seconds before he was leveled. Blocking foul??? wait... that one was too obvious, how do we get out of this... double foul, jump ball. WTF? Is that a possible call in that circumstance? I want to see that on the Ronnie Nunn segment.

Tayshaun's travel? That wasn't a travel, he kept his right as the pivot and then jumped off of both feet.

Billups drives baseline, gets massacred by LeBron. He rotates 90 degrees in the air from the contact. No call.

LeBron drives to the hoop. Phantom call when Tay leaves a good 2 feet between them. I watched in super slow mo on the DVR, the only contact between those 2 bodies was Lebron's off arm fending away Tay's arm, which was straight up.


I'm telling you, the NBA did not want us to meet them in the ECF after sweeping them in the regular season. That would not be good for the old ratings.


Yeah, we could have done a lot of things better, but we still had the second best team in the East beat.

you are reaching. that was a clear travel (foot shuffle) and the CB botched layup was due to tight D. besides, if the whistle was blown everytime there was tight D, we'd go back to %%%%%ing about the refs.

we blew this one.

It's either a block or a charge. A double foul implies that it was a block and a charge, which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.

A lot of the refereeing was bad, with that block/charge fiasco being the most obviously ridiculous thing, but we can't pin this one on the refs. The Pistons shot 29 FTs in the first half, for crying out loud! And I remember at least one of those calls in the first half--someone was called for a phantom foul on Tay as he drove to the hoop--being outrageously bad. Mike Brown went ballistic and got T'd up on that one, but it was tough to blame him. So to some extent, the calls that the Cavs were getting in the second half was just the refs evening things out a bit.

I'm telling you, the NBA did not want us to meet them in the ECF after sweeping them in the regular season. That would not be good for the old ratings.

Seems like any conference finals that has LeBron in it would garner good ratings, especially one that has a good chance of going the full 7 games. I'm sure they would prefer a Shaq/Wade vs. LeBron but I feel the Pistons have a lot of "star" power, too, with Webber, Rip, C-Note and the ever-bad Sheed.

I don't think the refereeing is to blame. The Pistons can't keep coming out without energy.

Sheed is not mobile at all.

Billups cannot hit the broadside of a barn from 3.

Except for Tayshaun calling his own number on the inbounds pass play, we're going to struggle if we continue to flounder on execution out of timeouts.

It's only one game, but we are now 1-3 in the critical March run. If the Pistons don't pull up their bootstraps and get to work, this could be an ugly month to watch.

This SUCKS! How does this team just implode so horribly? Its just one loss...3 out of 4 times.

Dyess' charge? Just out of curiosity, did anyone here think that was an offensive foul when it happened?

Billups' turnover under the basket. Did you watch the baseline camera angle? Did you see any contact between LeBron and the ball? Hand may be part of the ball, but elbows aren't.

LBJ drives against Sheed, who appeared to be avoiding contact...foul.

LBJ drives against Tay without contact... foul.

Tay's dropstep lay-in to take the lead... travel (we can agree to disagree on this one. I watched it in super slow mo and his right foot did not slide at all).

These all happened in crunch time and you were all wittnesses.

Some of those calls were questionable, though I definitely don't agree on the Chauncey turnover. That looked like a clean strip to me.

In any event, the refs didn't force the Pistons to give up 34 points in the first quarter, or to give up far too many offensive rebounds throughout the entire game, or to forget how to play simple pick and roll defense in the final seconds of regulation without giving up a clear path to the hoop for an uncontested LeBron dunk. The refs also played more than a small role in getting the Pistons to the line 29 times in the first half, which was a key factor in their getting back in the game after going down by 13 early in the second quarter because of all the free chili they were handing out.

I was too emotionally charged watching that last night.

Calmer now, I feel confident saying that was one of the worst displays of pick and roll defense I have ever seen in a professional game.

And I would like to re-iterate, why it is ok to double Lebron on the perimeter with a big, and it's not ok to double Shaq down low with a small.

It's totally inconsistent and makes no sense whatsoever.

a charge is damien wilkins running into Maxiell

a block is lebron james running into Maxiell

clear? good.

http://www.nba.com/media/DrewGoodrecapdet300.jpg

Foul Delfino.

Looks like a Kobe foul to me. Delfino is a euro player.

this game was nauseating to watch because of all the foul calls. i can't complain about the officiating because we got a TON of calls our way. but it wasn't even fun to watch and i'm glad i wasn't at the game.

Why does this team insist upon crushing my soul?I sense fear in you....anger...a 'conflict'....you all tried to banish the Sith. but you fail to realize that as long as Dolphins are allowed to patrol our sidelines, The Sith will always be present.....may the darkness prevail on your discouraged soul........................:deathstar1: :starwars: there is still a place in the galaxy for you, RC....

this game was nauseating to watch because of all the foul calls. i can't complain about the officiating because we got a TON of calls our way. but it wasn't even fun to watch and i'm glad i wasn't at the game.
NO HOGG!...What was nauseating was taht I watched the game on NBATV and got the Cleveland feed and FRED MCLEOD! If you thought he was annoying in Motown(and u all know I couldnt stand HIM) You should have heard him last night. Obviously, Lebron is his new meal ticket. Some Fred quips:

!. The Maxiel block and subsequeint double foul. Claims Max wasnt set.
2. Rick Mahorn. Brought up his foul on Mark Price in 89 as the reason Cavs didnt go to Finals.
3. Rip's and one vs Vareajo. His game partner , whats his name, Scott Williams,implied Varjeo wasnt set, without actually saying it. Stated the man who leads the league in offensive charges taken(Flop Boy) should have gotten the call.
4. James block on Rip. That Bron's defense in the 4th quarter(including 'causing' Tay's travel) changed the game.
5. On Brons game ending 3" game over!!Good night, Detroit. Nice to know ya."before hiding under a rock when replay reversed call.

Two teams I just cant to listen to:Boston, and now Cleveland!!!!

Skool,

I'm glad you brought that up, because that might be why I got so worked up at the refs. Listening to McCloud was unbearable.

The main reason it is so irritating is because I know that he doesn't even believe what he is saying. He is pandering big time.

He'll say something about a call, and then when the replay shows the complete opposite, he'll just reconfirm his point.

On the play where Lebron fouled Chauncey on the baseline, he watched the close-up replay and said "Lebron did a nice job of getting both hands on top of the ball." The replay showed one of Lebron's hands pulling CB's off-arm from the ball and the other hand grabbing the CB's right elbow. There was about about 1.5 feet between that and the "top of the ball."

At least he was one guy that deserved to leave after the Ship.

Yeah, Mcleod is really embarrassing himself these days. I even heard him say "ball don't lie!" earlier this season when the Cavs were playing the Spurs.

5. On Brons game ending 3" game over!!Good night, Detroit. Nice to know ya."before hiding under a rock when replay reversed call.

Even more ridiculous than that was Mike Brown running off the court and trying to get the rest of the team to follow him. OK, in the past, you could maybe, possibly, theoretically sway the refs a bit in that situation by getting into the locker room before they could change their minds. But as we discussed in chat, now that THEY HAVE INSTANT REPLAY TO CHECK IF THE SHOT WAS OFF IN TIME OR NOT, you just look like a complete tool when you run away while the refs simply look at the monitor to decide the call!

this game was nauseating to watch because of all the foul calls. i can't complain about the officiating because we got a TON of calls our way. but it wasn't even fun to watch and i'm glad i wasn't at the game.
It was tourcherous as times to be there. Such of a choppy game. 4 sec - whistle, 5 - whistle, repeat.. even the boards were going out of bounds.

Time after time the Pistons get into a deep hole in the first 7 minutes. Everybody is testing their jump shots to see if they are "on" that game. These lead to offensive rebounds that lead to fast breaks that lead to a 10 point deficit. Then our guys (Rip and Chauncey) get a bad mind-set and believe they are not "on" that game and they will have to just shoot their way out of it. They usually find their game in the second half but by then we are down by 17, have to fight our way back and lose energy at the end for the loss.

Why can't they ease into the game by making some easy shots first to build up their confidence and then move to the jumpers. We are way too much a jump shot team and there is not need for that. When we are off on the jump shots we lose.

While I'm in a critical mood...why is it we suddenly can't defend the pick and roll and why do we just open up a lane to the basket without any effort to defend it? Mahorn was spot on last night. He said early in the game he would hard foul anybody driving to the hoop and that would slow them down for the rest of the game.

Why did Flip pull Delfino after he alone was doing a good job defending James? We didn't see him again. :angrysoapbox:

notice how difficult it is for us to win when we get off to slow starts. when webber joined the team, we finally got away from spotting teams 10-15 point leads and that's a big part of why we were winning.

we've reverted back for a stretch here and have lost 3 of 4. ugh. can the playoffs (and warm weather) get here already?

on a side note, my nephew already fits into his pistons outfit!! i tried to time the clothes to be just big enough when he reached 5-6 months, and that kid fits into them after 2 months!!!! i might have to buy him something else for the playoffs now ... maybe a 'jason maxiell eats babies' shirt haha.

Why did Flip pull Delfino after he alone was doing a good job defending James? We didn't see him again. :angrysoapbox:
Secret weapon, saving for the playoffs

Skool,

I'm glad you brought that up, because that might be why I got so worked up at the refs. Listening to McCloud was unbearable.

The main reason it is so irritating is because I know that he doesn't even believe what he is saying. He is pandering big time.

He'll say something about a call, and then when the replay shows the complete opposite, he'll just reconfirm his point.

On the play where Lebron fouled Chauncey on the baseline, he watched the close-up replay and said "Lebron did a nice job of getting both hands on top of the ball." The replay showed one of Lebron's hands pulling CB's off-arm from the ball and the other hand grabbing the CB's right elbow. There was about about 1.5 feet between that and the "top of the ball."

At least he was one guy that deserved to leave after the Ship.
You are so right. Maybe that's why I was so mad because when I come home at 10:30PM and say "Im gonna stay up and watch my team play" and they give me bS like last night.

ALSO ...ALERT!!!!WXYT.COM is talking about Mcleod's mouth at 3:00PM. Hope Roscoe can download some of it!:stirthepot:

Anyone notice how much we missed Lindsey?

Yea, Lindsey is essential when playing the Cavs. Although Delfino was guarding James one-on-one just as good (if not better), so of course he's benched for the rest of the game.

Delfino needs to learn to stop playing defense . . .

ALSO ...ALERT!!!!WXYT.COM is talking about Mcleod's mouth at 3:00PM. Hope Roscoe can download some of it!:stirthepot:

I never like the guy either. I used to be dissapointed whenever FSN had the games because of him, glad he is gone. I was so happy when I heard that news.