A clash of 3 and 3 division leading titans! The media made me say that.
Almost identical teams. good Dee. Weak Off.
The last time the Lions went to Chitown they where cocky, fresh off a victory over the fumbling Pack. The Bears made it very clear they are much more disciplined team and sent the Lions back to Detroit with an embarrassing 38 to 6 setting down of the laws.
...This one will be different. This one is for Rosa Parks. Bear fan it's gonna be ulgy. Lions 17, Bears still need a QB.:nod:

Bear fan it's gonna be ulgy. Lions 17, Bears still need a QB.:nod:

The Lions do too. And you are right . It's gonna be ugly...but for both teams. :ohwell:

Usually it seems these two teams split their games. But K.J. is going nowhere against them & our receivers & QB are weak.

UGLY score:

Bears 13

Lions 6

I'm thinking the Lions will lose because they never seem to get above 50%. I hope I'm wrong though this game is huge for both teams.

Gotta like Garcia's toughness and the way the D has played. But Bly isn't playing so that's huge. And Rogers is questionable. But I think Garcia finds a way: Detroit 21, Chicago 17.

We are deep at tackle. It's the secondary that's the weakess. The LBs can help by taking a deeper drop. Damn Orton beat us for aTD with the same route last game.

This team gets harder and harder to watch on a weekly/yearly basis. :doh: Glad the Pistons start up Wednesday. And we still got the Wings. The Lie-downs always let us down.

Sorry to start my first post that way but...........
:frusty:
I am so tired of watching this staff force feed the WCO into a group of players totally unsuited for it!

IMHO the good coaches fit the system to the talent - not the other way around.

I personally think that Millen better step up and have a little "talk" with Mooch. I still am of the opinion that most of the draft choices for the past few years have more talent than the system takes advantage of. I suspect that some of the views expressed of players "doggin'" it in practice or running routes could be put down at least partially to frustration.

So - that is my three cents worth for now - sorry to be so verbose.

On the other hand - thank you for the welcome into your forum. I have been watching the forum at the news but posting rarely because of the general lack of decorum and the fact that if you post any kind of an opinion the name callers come out of the woodwork.

Yes, there is a lot of truth to what you say about matching the talent to the system. That's why Mooch's name will never be mentioned in the same breath as Parcells, Belicheck, Landry, Shula ... and the list goes on, but Mooch ain't on it. This is a moribound offense with a crappy O-line. And you can't win if you can't rush the ball. Another sub-100-yard rushing effort from the Lions today.

I have really had it with the Lions.I hope they lose the rest of thier games this year fire Millen and Mooch and the NFL strips the Ford's of the right to own the team.

From top down this team reaks.Really sad, injuries aside they are really sad.

Another sad display. It is almost comical how they fiind ways to lose.:frusty:

This defeat makes it clear that none of this mess is solely the fault of either quarterback. Neither one has had enough time to even counter the blitz, let alone look downfield to see who might be open. The offensive and defense schemes both suck. How can a passing game suceed when they only pass to receivers who are standing in one spot. Why not try a slant once in a while? Or a 3 step drop with a lob downfield for our 6 foot four receivers to try to out leap their 5 foot ten secondary?

Why run up the middle when there are 8 men in the box? Poor Jones is losing the will to run this all the time.

Why can't our 7 pass blockers keep out their 4 rushers? Is there a hole in the center of the protection that causes it to breakdown everytime? Maybe Raola? What quarterback would willing take that amount of punishment each week and still have the confidence needed to make good judgements and accurate throws? Forget it.

You all are right. We have 2 schemes that don't fit the personnel and we have an ultra conservative set of coaches who can't recognize that fact or who are unable to make the necessary adjustment.

I know I will get crucified for this post but...

This is more bad medicine.

One more loss in the next 2 games and we are out of the playoff race for sure. The backend of the sched. is too tough.

I felt sorry for Jeff today, I swear he looked concussed after that helmet on helmet hit. They showed a quick shot of his face and his eyes looked glassy.

I don't know what good can come out of this, but it should be painfully obvious to all that the Lions are very far from being a team that could compete for the playoffs let alone win a game in said event.

Thankfully the Pistons season starts this week and I can go back to ignoring the Lions. My heart doesn't even ache (like it used to) when they lose. I expect it. In fact, the way this team is run and how far away they seem from being legitimately competitive, I almost found myself pulling for Chicago to win it so we could be guaranteed some offseason changes.

I am really tired of being a Lions fan. 20+ years and I have nothing to show for it but some great memories of Barry. If I was an old time fan, I would be certifiably insane.

I know I will get crucified for this post but...

This is more bad medicine.

One more loss in the next 2 games and we are out of the playoff race for sure. The backend of the sched. is too tough.

I felt sorry for Jeff today, I swear he looked concussed after that helmet on helmet hit. They showed a quick shot of his face and his eyes looked glassy.

I don't know what good can come out of this, but it should be painfully obvious to all that the Lions are very far from being a team that could compete for the playoffs let alone win a game in said event.

Thankfully the Pistons season starts this week and I can go back to ignoring the Lions. My heart doesn't even ache (like it used to) when they lose. I expect it. In fact, the way this team is run and how far away they seem from being legitimately competitive, I almost found myself pulling for Chicago to win it so we could be guaranteed some offseason changes.

I am really tired of being a Lions fan. 20+ years and I have nothing to show for it but some great memories of Barry. If I was an old time fan, I would be certifiably insane.

I'm not sure why you believe someone would want to crucify you for your comments. The truth is fairly obvious to most. I strongly agree with you and I said they were done after the 2nd game of the season. I still like to hear they won, but haven't wasted my time on them since the loss to the Bears in game 2. The team is a mess from top to bottom. Darn Shame, ain't it? :mad:

This game made it more obvious to me that Garcia doesn't give us any better of a chance to win than Harrington. Sorry, but I think you dance with the girl you brought.

In my opinion, Garcia is done. He looks like he is trying to do things that he used to be able to do, but his body doesn't want to do it anymore.

He also is making the same stupid plays that Harrington has been criticized for: passing to a running back on the slant when it's 3rd and long... passing to guys who are 5 yards short of the 1st down marker... and on top of that, Garcia seems a little reckless out there. Those shovel passes are ridiculous.

The best pass he threw all day was the last one he threw in OT, right on the numbers!

I know I will get crucified for this post but...

This is more bad medicine.

One more loss in the next 2 games and we are out of the playoff race for sure. The backend of the sched. is too tough.

I felt sorry for Jeff today, I swear he looked concussed after that helmet on helmet hit. They showed a quick shot of his face and his eyes looked glassy.

I don't know what good can come out of this, but it should be painfully obvious to all that the Lions are very far from being a team that could compete for the playoffs let alone win a game in said event.

Thankfully the Pistons season starts this week and I can go back to ignoring the Lions. My heart doesn't even ache (like it used to) when they lose. I expect it. In fact, the way this team is run and how far away they seem from being legitimately competitive, I almost found myself pulling for Chicago to win it so we could be guaranteed some offseason changes.

I am really tired of being a Lions fan. 20+ years and I have nothing to show for it but some great memories of Barry. If I was an old time fan, I would be certifiably insane.

Man, that hit was scarry. I couldn't believe he got up so quickly after that. They showed it about 10 times and it looked worse each time I saw it.

This game made it more obvious to me that Garcia doesn't give us any better of a chance to win than Harrington. Sorry, but I think you dance with the girl you brought.

In my opinion, Garcia is done. He looks like he is trying to do things that he used to be able to do, but his body doesn't want to do it anymore.

He also is making the same stupid plays that Harrington has been criticized for: passing to a running back on the slant when it's 3rd and long... passing to guys who are 5 yards short of the 1st down marker... and on top of that, Garcia seems a little reckless out there. Those shovel passes are ridiculous.

The best pass he threw all day was the last one he threw in OT, right on the numbers!

I disagree. I think Garcia does give us a better chance of winning this season. But he is definately (and obviously) not the long term answer.

Garcia does make some of the same mistakes that Harrington did, but he does it less often and also makes positive plays that Joey just isn't capable of (or at least hasn't shown us yet). Scrambling and improvising.

I actually like Joey and think that he can be a decent starting QB in this league, just not in Detroit. He's already been made the scapegoat for an organization full of underachievers and poor decision makers.

The QB, wether its Joey, Jeff, Dan, Charlie Batch, Mike McMahon, Scott Mitchell, Erik Kramer, Rodney Peete, Andre Ware, Gus Ferrotte, Ty Detmer, Dave Krieg, etc. etc. is far from the biggest problem with this team.

I hate to use the injury excuse, but I think that might have been the difference today. Shaun Rogers and Dre Bly out on D and their top 3 receivers on O were out. All of the Bears' good runs were up the middle, where Big Baby would have been. Bly would have been matched up on Mohammed and taken him away for the most part, and maybe had a pick or 2. Having NFL caliber receivers to throw to would have been nice as well. Vines did pretty well, but he shouldn't be your starter. Martinez is not an NFL WR.

Oh well, no matter what the reasons the outcome is always the same.

Same old Lions.

I disagree. I think Garcia does give us a better chance of winning this season. But he is definately (and obviously) not the long term answer.

It's time to think about some long-term answers for this team. I wonder if Orlovsky should see some time. I always laugh at the one or two posters over at detnews that call for this guy to come in, but when we get the receivers back, it might be time to let this guy air it out. He has a stronger arm than both Harrington and Garcia. I think the defense is pretty solid, but the offense is like watching UM this season. No imagination, trying to force the run with a bad offensive line. It's sad. But it's like a car wreck for me. I haven't been able to look away. Yet.

There are positives to be taken from this game. And some hard realities to face. Good- the Dee was a lucky bounce or two away from scoring. The bad- in 2 years the Bears with Lovie Smith have passed the Lions. And it aint over until its over. 9 more games to duke out. We played smart but got no help from the running game. We couldn't go deep to make space to run. The special teams, KO and RET. were ineffective. Eddie D. better get his act together.
Oh, and Garcia has a life expectancy of 3 games if he gets knocked around like this some more!
We played a smart close to the vest game. Fine. But why didn't Garcia get a couple of first downs with his feet. I kept waiting for him to sweep behind Sledge and Jones.

It's time to think about some long-term answers for this team. I wonder if Orlovsky should see some time. I always laugh at the one or two posters over at detnews that call for this guy to come in, but when we get the receivers back, it might be time to let this guy air it out. He has a stronger arm than both Harrington and Garcia. I think the defense is pretty solid, but the offense is like watching UM this season. No imagination, trying to force the run with a bad offensive line. It's sad. But it's like a car wreck for me. I haven't been able to look away. Yet.

Call me crazy, but I actually think Orlovsky is the best guy we have. Why put him in, though? Yeah, he will get battle tested, but he'll probably get seriously injured plus his confidence will be ruined like Harringtons. Sigh.

I really believe they will win maybe 2...possibly 3 more no matter what. 5- 11 or 6-10. That's pretty horrible in the weak Central division.

With MSU going down the toilet this year and the Lions keeping them company, I sure appreciate the Red Wings and Pistons.

Mike O'Hara lays the smackdown on the Wet Toast offense.

Q: What is the biggest evidence that the offense is out of touch?
A: Start with the Lions' first possession in overtime.
• First down at their 22-yard line -- a pass to Kevin Jones, the tailback, for no gain.
• Second down, a pass to Jones -- for a 1-yard loss.
• Third down -- a dump to Mike Williams for 7 yards, 4 yards short of a first down.
That's three passes, three completions -- for 6 yards. How can anyone call that trying to win a game?

Burning Questions - Burning Answers - The fall of Rome (http://www.detnews.com/2005/lions/0510/31/D10-366472.htm)
-

Hopefully, Mooch reads O'Hara's column. Glad to see the media lowering the boom on this wimp offense.

yep. The Lions need new blood. New ownership, new management, new coach..to put the life back into this franchise. I think our players are alot better than what we are seeing. We need a high profile coach here BADLY!

yep. The Lions need new blood. New ownership, new management, new coach..to put the life back into this franchise. I think our players are alot better than what we are seeing. We need a high profile coach here BADLY!
Seriously, I don't think it would be a knee-jerk reaction for Ford to fire them all today. This is pitiful stuff. Laughable, if you aren't a Lions fan.
I can't ever remember feeling quite this way about them even during the 2-14 years.

Of course, he will do nothing but sit there and watch his bank account grow. He'll fire Mooch after the season so he can sucker the fans into buying season tickets next year. After that 5 year extension to Millen, he will keep him. He is loyal to his G.M.s...remember Russ Thomas?

I don't see this changing for several years...if ever. Ford is a horrible owner. I really need to start rooting for Seattle or Denver like the other people around me. I hate Denver from the Elway years...I like Seattle though. It's tough to just switch allegiences though...ya know? :frusty::violin:

Tater, I'm in this for the long haul, man.

The Lions are like that smelly drunk uncle that noone wants to sit next to..but you love em' all the same. Football just ain't football without my Lions. Hey, the Bucs used to feel the same way about their franchise..but change eventually happened. There is still hope. Just not this year. :)

Tater, I'm in this for the long haul, man.

The Lions are like that smelly drunk uncle that noone wants to sit next to..but you love em' all the same. Football just ain't football without my Lions. Hey, the Bucs used to feel the same way about their franchise..but change eventually happened. There is still hope. Just not this year. :)

Really, I think the chances of a turnaround are minimal with Ford at the helm. The talent is ok. It's the owner. He will keep hiring lousy G.M.s who will keep hiring lousy coaches who will keep the mediocre players ineffective.

Everyone at the top has to go, but unfortunately Mr. Ford is not going to sell the team. But he needs to buy out Millen's contract and fire all the coaches who have ruined Joey H and will probably do the same with KJ and the Williams boys. Rogers is another story along with that pathetic offensive line. The offensive calls are to conservative as the coaches have no imagination.

This was then perfect year for the Lions to make the playoffs with the pack and vikings stinking up the divison and all they will to show for it is a possible second place finish with a record of 5-11 if the defense can squeeze out two more victories:frusty:

O'Hara, Mooch likes to go sideways. "Get it, down field"

O'Hara, Mooch likes to go sideways. "Get it, down field"

They did that in overtime. OOPS! :rolleyes:

Mooch needs to go bye-bye I really didn't have to much faith in him coming in and with his co-ordinators now I have none.I just don't know what else to say except the same thing every year.

Besides the interception Garcia didn't look that good either.Well with my leg I wasn't as mobile blah,blah WHAT??wasn't this the guy last week who said he wouldn't have come in unless he could compete like he wanted to and Mooch let him!

New record I look forward to sweeping firings and the draft after just 6 games cuz I knew they would lose.Pistons take me away.

Oh, ye of little faith. One thing that might be of concern, is, was Garcia in complete use of is facilities when he went back in late in the game? People were saying he looked stunned. I think he took to many shots. Joel could have come in fresh.

Oh, ye of little faith. One thing that might be of concern, is, was Garcia in complete use of is facilities when he went back in late in the game? People were saying he looked stunned. I think he took to many shots. Joel could have come in fresh.

Little faith? I think Lions fans have more faith than anyone on the planet.

After DECADES of losing and incompetence the Lions STILL sell out every single home game. Lions message boards are STILL flooded 12 months a year with die hard fans holding on to any glimmer of hope tighter than Mike Williams does a pass (HOLD ON TO THE FREAKING BALL MIKE!!).

We're just gluttons for punishment. We have too much faith. What we need is a miracle.

Oh, ye of little faith. One thing that might be of concern, is, was Garcia in complete use of is facilities when he went back in late in the game? People were saying he looked stunned. I think he took to many shots. Joel could have come in fresh.

"Little faith"? I think expecting a miracle is a lot to ask for.

What positive signs do you see with this team?

We have a good running back who gets no blocking. We have skilled receivers who get a couple of short screen passes every game (when they aren't injured or doing drugs). We have a coach and GM who do not get along. We have 45 years of futility with the same owner (futility = one playoff victory in that time). We have coaches who make ridiculous calls. The quarterbacks...I don't even need to go there.

Only thing I see this year is a good defense and a field goal kicker. That won't do it. Hanson gets few opportunities because the offense can't even get close. That leaves the defense.

If the offense were just average there would be hope. It isn't. It is horrible.

Why have faith? They aren't even fun to watch.

Faith = false hope = another wasted Sunday afternoon.

Most of you guys and gals have been around 20 years so you know the routine. You start the season all hopeful then reality sets in with each Lion loss. It's your own fault, you knew Joel was the starter, I.E. inadequate. So for you to expect a 9 and 7 team or better was dreaming on your part.
The Fords can't stop the run! I say the Fords are only 5% to blame. That's for hiring Millen. I say Millen is 15% to blame for wrecking the team and starting over. Not smart, but sometimes that's what you got to do.
Now people are realizing Fontes and Ford Jr. were at least competitive. And they had Barry.
Our Dee is improved. Not yet suffocating but better. When in all of Fontes regime did we have Dee this good? Maybe '91 the 12 and 4 team. I saw better play in the Bears game than the week before. That's improvement.

Most of you guys and gals have been around 20 years so you know the routine. You start the season all hopeful then reality sets in with each Lion loss. It's your own fault, you knew Joel was the starter, I.E. inadequate. So for you to expect a 9 and 7 team or better was dreaming on your part.
The Fords can't stop the run! I say the Fords are only 5% to blame. That's for hiring Millen. I say Millen is 15% to blame for wrecking the team and starting over. Not smart, but sometimes that's what you got to do.
Now people are realizing Fontes and Ford Jr. were at least competitive. And they had Barry.
Our Dee is improved. Not yet suffocating but better. When in all of Fontes regime did we have Dee this good? Maybe '91 the 12 and 4 team. I saw better play in the Bears game than the week before. That's improvement.

So you're saying that if Joey were on the Steelers, Patriots, Colts or Eagles those teams would have a losing record?

Joey isn't blameless, but he is far from the only problem in this organization. A team that loses year in and year out for decades doesn't have one problem.

Good Q. I don't think they would be going to the playoffs. Or winning playoff games. Bloody Dilfer has a ring. I don't even know if Joel can go downfield, he hasn't done it enough. He's not stupid he's just isn't corizmatic[sp] enough.

Most of you guys and gals have been around 20 years so you know the routine. You start the season all hopeful then reality sets in with each Lion loss. It's your own fault, you knew Joel was the starter, I.E. inadequate. So for you to expect a 9 and 7 team or better was dreaming on your part.
The Fords can't stop the run! I say the Fords are only 5% to blame. That's for hiring Millen. I say Millen is 15% to blame for wrecking the team and starting over. Not smart, but sometimes that's what you got to do.
Now people are realizing Fontes and Ford Jr. were at least competitive. And they had Barry.
Our Dee is improved. Not yet suffocating but better. When in all of Fontes regime did we have Dee this good? Maybe '91 the 12 and 4 team. I saw better play in the Bears game than the week before. That's improvement.

I don't see anyone crying, unless you call shooting down your opinions "crying." I call it being "realistic".

You haven't disputed anything we've said. You merely called us names. Hardly makes for an intelligent or interesting discussion.

Did you come up with the5% and "15% to blame" part through some mathematical formula I'm unaware of? Interesting that everyone the Ford's have hired over the last 45 years shoulder the remaining 95 percent of the blame.

You just keep on buying tickets to the games. The Fords love people like you.

I guess Dumars is only 15% responsible for the Pistons success, eh? And Davidson's 5% input that lead to a championship for the Tampa Bay Lightning, Detroit Shock, and Detroit Pistons all in one year was luck, right? Had nothing to do with the way he built the organizations. Well...maybe 5% of it did, right?

Some teams are just lucky, I guess. Others like the Lions and Clippers just can't catch a break. Yeah, as soon as Joey is gone they will be awesome. Look how well Garcia is doing.

******Note to Micro...Remember my pm to you last week...does this answer your question???? ******* lmaoooooo.

You know who you are. The repetative whining about the same thing. And if calling you cry babies and of little faith is that hurtful just say it. Your opinions are correct we see the same things game in and game out. I say look for the positive. For now, before I go ballistic.
....Yes that is my math formula for responsibility, the Fords are 5% to blame. And unlucky. They've put out the doe. What more do you want them to do? Run the team? I thought we don't want them to meddle.
Millen gets 15% thats 20% management. Pretty healthy if you ask me. And how can you say I don't answer you or whomever. Now, do you still need to go behind my back.:ohwell:

You know who you are. The repetative whining about the same thing. And if calling you cry babies and of little faith is that hurtful just say it. Your opinions are correct we see the same things game in and game out. I say look for the positive. For now, before I go ballistic.
....Yes that is my math formula for responsibility, the Fords are 5% to blame. And unlucky. They've put out the doe. What more do you want them to do? Run the team? I thought we don't want them to meddle.
Millen gets 15% thats 20% management. Pretty healthy if you ask me. And how can you say I don't answer you or whomever. Now, do you still need to go behind my back.:ohwell:

(1)Stating that something is bad or lousy is not whining.

(2)Expecting the Ford's or any other owner to make a few sound hiring decisions over half a decade is not asking too much.

(3)You still haven't addressed the issues relating to the state of the team. You keep going on about loving the kool aid and chastising others for not dining with you.

(4) Anything further I state is only going to bring Roscoe in here. Consider this my parting comment to you.

Tater,
[1] The statements maybe true and to constantly harp about failure by everyone including me is whinning.
[2] I agree, but they haven't made many successful moves in 35 yrs. That isn't something we can control. Is it?
[3] That's just wrong. Look at ALL my posts. I've dealt with almost all the team issues. Even the ones I was wrong about [CRog].
[4] Until you're man enough to PM me with what's really on your mind, maybe you should chill. Cause I got a PM for you.
[5] Moderators, this game and thread has run its course. You can lock it up.

Being a fan of any sport is about sticking with your team through thick and thin.

Its about talking about the positives and the negatives. Do you think that PistonForum.com only has positive threads about the Pistons and its players? Do you think any forum only has positive talk? Think again. That's the beauty of free speach.

Are we supposed to just blindly follow our teams without saying anything negative? That's what makes a true fan, the passion.

The Lions have more passionate fans than any team I've ever known. After decades of losing, we're still here. We still chear for the team. We still boo when we aren't happy. We still talk about the positives, get excited and hopefull to start every season, and lament the negatives when things go wrong.

Its the same with every team in every sport around the world. That is the beauty of sports.

I do agree with you on one point though. This discussion is over.

...especially since the game ended a week ago.:deadhorse

What, and let you get the last word! Jtime I've been a Lion fan going on 35 years. If I put any effort into it I could be "the" expert. I drew a play in one of the threads and nobody responded. Maybe noone here can really talk football.

I drew a play in one of the threads and nobody responded. Maybe noone here can really talk football.
Maybe not. Looks like that Football Genius Club I had planned is a dead idea...

Maybe you should go hassle 6 some more.
[muttering] you can't have it. don't steal it from me. my precious lions forum.