Dallas March 18th, 3:30 PM
TV - ABC

Dallas visits the Palace in this nationally televised game where the best in the west meets the best in the east. This is the first stop of a six game east coast trip for the Mav`s. The Pistons won the first matchup 92-82. These teams will not play again unless it`s in the Finals.

Working like a hollywood movie here. Pistons face the best 2 teams from the West in consecutive games. Pistons actually have a better road record than home and Dallas is no sloach on the road at 23-7.

Going to be a tough one if Billups is out. We will see. Been an amazing stretch so I would no be surprised if the Pistons pull this one out. Pistons had blown the Mavs out twice in the games last season.

The great game but ....Chaunchey? News?

My UK Wildcats foiled my usual Pistons-watching plans by actually advancing in the NCAAs, so I won't be around for the game this afternoon. Y'all have fun while I'm away, but don't go doing anything I wouldn't do!

The great game but ....Chaunchey? News?
The chris McCosky weblog on the detroit news website said no billups today flip murray is going to start im new to the forum and I don't know how trust worthy McCosky is as a source but thats what i read

Pistons ..Murray Rip Tay Sheed and Webber

Mavs Harris Terry Howard Nowitzki Dampier

Chat is open for bidness:

quicklinks: flash chat.

im new to the forum and I don't know how trust worthy McCosky is as a source but thats what i read
Thanks!

DANG------8 missed freethrows came back to bite us in the ...

Did Ri p take some diet pills too.
????

A lot of missed easy shots and inconsistent defense lead to losses against playoff-caliber teams - even when those teams don't have integral parts of their rotation in uniform.

flip murray sucks for that last play.

flip saunders sucks for not calling timeout before the last play.

A lot of missed easy shots and inconsistent defense lead to losses against playoff-caliber teams - even when those teams don't have integral parts of their rotation in uniform.


Buckner and George are their equivelants of Hunter and Delfino....and the two of them combined don't equal Chauncey Billups, so I wouldn't go as far as to paint Dallas as a team that was short handed and Detroit should have beaten.

Bottom line is the Pistons were missing a starting point guard and his backup, they were missing complimentary pieces, and the Pistons still would have won this game if Richard Hamilton doesn't shoot free throws like he's 5 years old.

Dallas played a solid game and the Pistons faltered down the stretch, especially Rip with his FT's. Not happy with the results but am not disappointed. Missing our starting PG and coming within a hair's breadth of a W is OK against a very good Dallas team. Pistons can beat these guys. Flip Sr. could have adjusted quicker against the smaller line-up AJ was using.

DANG------8 missed freethrows came back to bite us in the ...


That was the difference OZ. Including six misses in crunch time, 3 by Rip and 1 by Cwebb. Rip missed 5 today himself. If he hits all of them, the Pistons probably win or are in OT now....Where is our home cookin? The mavs made more FT's (24) than the Pistons took (21)

Flip had 18 pts 6 assists and 4 steals. Hopefully he continues to get some PT when Hunter comes back. He probably should have taken some more shots in that 4th instead deferring to the guys standing out on the 3 pts line. It appeared that our guys were intimidated by Dampier with all of the outside shots. I have not seen the NBA stats page, but I am willing to bet that the Mavs outpointed us in the paint too, and that is where we were beating teams during the west coast streak.

And how does a guy like Devin Harris who averages 9.7 pts a game get 22pts?? He went to the FTline 10 times.

No need to fret though, we were close even without CB. Rest him one more game and get him ready for the trip back to Texas for the end of the week. We got nine more road games so at least we get at least nine more W's there:)

Great attitude Dre.

Another ho-hum loss. The only Piston that stood out was Dice, and like I've said before, when Dice plays big in a big game, we usually lose.

Don't ask me why.

At the end of the day, Dallas exploited our mismatches instead of the other way around.

Howard controlled Tay, Webber cannot guard Dirk and Terry is too quick for Murray.

Our lack of a P&R game with Murray was glaring.

Overall Sheed played Dirk pretty good... that last three by Dirk was just laziness on Sheeds part not rotating fast enough... this was after a timeout.... who do you think was gonna have his number called for a big play down the stretch?

Dallas should get some credit for their defense... Cwebb had a tough time getting position down low.
I think we should have gone thru Tay more... that was our mismatch.
Did Flip Jr. just play better defense on Terry than Chauncey?
This would be a fun finals series.

We are right there at a championship level. I wouldn't worry. Flip Murray can not run the offense as the MAIN point guard. We didn't have a rythym most of the game.

On defense, we were a bit spent against the Suns.

What is important is that we found a BACK-UP GUARD who can run the offense well enough for a spurt and can score. Yes, Flip Murray. Actually, the only way we could have won this game is if Flip went one on one more late--either make or break it as Dallas got into our sets (doubt that will happen with Chauncey) and you could see we were in trouble.

This team is ready for the big dance with a bench. With Murray as the back up. With Webber in the offense.

Flip has obviously learned from Chauncey. Now, Chauncey needs to learn from Flip. We need Billips to be more consistently offensively oriented against the good teams. Flip can't spread the offense like Chauncey because they don't worry about his three ball. But Flip can take it to the rack and Flip is not afraid to be offensive minded.

We have taken away too much of Billips firepower. We need to bring some of it back.

We have what amounts to as 2 point guards on the floor when Flip and CWebb both there. Flip brings the ball up and CWebb runs the offense like Sabonis used to do. Want to see more of that.

Flip has obviously learned from Chauncey. Now, Chauncey needs to learn from Flip. We need Billips to be more consistently offensively oriented against the good teams. Flip can't spread the offense like Chauncey because they don't worry about his three ball. But Flip can take it to the rack and Flip is not afraid to be offensive minded.

We have taken away too much of Billips firepower. We need to bring some of it back.

Good points. I feel that Chauncey sometimes tries to get everyone involved in big games like today's, to the detriment of his shooting touch. He should try to shoot some more early in the game, just to make sure his shot is falling down, and that then we can get everyone else going offensively.

Overall Sheed played Dirk pretty good... that last three by Dirk was just laziness on Sheeds part not rotating fast enough... this was after a timeout.... who do you think was gonna have his number called for a big play down the stretch?

Dallas should get some credit for their defense... Cwebb had a tough time getting position down low.
I think we should have gone thru Tay more... that was our mismatch.
Did Flip Jr. just play better defense on Terry than Chauncey?
This would be a fun finals series.

I agree w/ the offense going through Tay more. I'm encouraged by the fact that we kept it close w/o Chauncey. Discouraged w/how IMO FlipSr was outcoached yet again.Starters played big min.Max didn't really see time when he should've. And Sheed did seem to react slowly on that Dirk shot. Fatigue or laziness? You're probably right about it being laziness.Rip killed us down the stretch w/ his inability to make FT's. I don't know if the 2nd half was a product of Dallas' D, Avery's adjustments, or us just going away w/ what got us the lead in the 1st place ? I'd put my money on Avery though.

Tayshaun Prince only had (the stronger but much smaller) Stackhouse on him for a couple of possessions in the 4th quarter; the rest of the time he was being guarded by Josh Howard, which (to say the least) is not a matchup that favors Tay.

Why they went away from running the offense through whoever was being guarded by Dirk (mostly Sheed, Fino on four or five possessions, CWebb occasionally) is beyond me.

Tayshaun Prince only had (the stronger but much smaller) Stackhouse on him for a couple of possessions in the 4th quarter; the rest of the time he was being guarded by Josh Howard, which (to say the least) is not a matchup that favors Tay.

Why they went away from running the offense through whoever was being guarded by Dirk (mostly Sheed, Fino on four or five possessions, CWebb occasionally) is beyond me.

I don't know. I saw Prince score on Howard a few times. I agree w/ the 2nd point though. irk is a liability on defense. In the 2nd half, it seems like we just started running random plays, trying to involve diff ppl. It's like they got bored. Problem is what we were running previously was working.

Tayshaun Prince only had (the stronger but much smaller) Stackhouse on him for a couple of possessions in the 4th quarter; the rest of the time he was being guarded by Josh Howard, which (to say the least) is not a matchup that favors Tay.

Why they went away from running the offense through whoever was being guarded by Dirk (mostly Sheed, Fino on four or five possessions, CWebb occasionally) is beyond me.


Agreed. What I saw of the second half, Tay was working on building wells for Africa with all of those bricks, including one play that stuck out to me where Webber had awesome position on his man, was backing him practically all the way out to the three-point line, and does Tay toss it in for an easy bucket/foul/and one? No, he keeps the ball and tries to run in and shoot over two defenders, including Chris' defender, and horribly bricks the shot. I don't want to make accusations, since I rarely see a game, but where is the Tayshaun Prince that Joe Dumars called "our most valuable player" or something to that effect a season or so ago?

Free throws killed this team. The Pistons missed so many bunnies in the 4th quarter. This should of been a big win without Chauncey.

The chris McCosky weblog on the detroit news website said no billups today flip murray is going to start im new to the forum and I don't know how trust worthy McCosky is as a source but thats what i readim sorry..but thanks

I thought the Pistons got stiffed on a few calls which could have made the difference. Did not notice any real bad calls on Dallas like the Pistons got. Not sure why but the Pistons seem to get better whistles on the road.

Great effort anyway without Billups. Pistons still played good enough to win.

I thought the Pistons got stiffed on a few calls which could have made the difference. Did not notice any real bad calls on Dallas like the Pistons got. Not sure why but the Pistons seem to get better whistles on the road.

Great effort anyway without Billups. Pistons still played good enough to win.

Dallas did get a lot of questionable calls, but the Pistons missed many bunnies as well.

my thoughts;
Nowitzki is a problem for this team. Sheed closed him down in the first half and than Flip started to let Mc Dyess defend him. When Sheed got to defend him again, he was hot and it was too late to stop him.
On offense, our team is simply weak. No one you can give the ball and who is going to be able to handle the responsibility. That Flip got the ball in crunch time showed how poor this team is in crunch time if CB's not playing. Tay had one lousy game- he's playing pretty weak since CWebb's arrival. He certainly needs to add some moves to his repertoire, he can't surprise anyone with his left hook any more.
As for Sheed, he makes me wonder. His inconsistency is driving me crazy. A 6'11 PF shooting 41% is a shame. Today you could see how weak his post game looks at times- no wonder since he hardly works there.
McDyess had a decent game, knocking down those jumpers and working the boards. Fino did ok most times- that one time Nowitzki drove past him should be ok since he is much smaller and had to stand close to him since we all know Dirk can shoot.
Flip Murray- I can't stand him. Ok, he makes these shots, but he's simply too selfish. I can't help but he isn't enough of a team player to like him. Too many actions in which he tries to drive from the moment he gets the ball although he should run the point.
RIP had an off- night too. Everyone is allowed to have one.
No bench tonight. Flip Sr. is afraid to give them minutes since we all know he doesn't trust these guys. He prefers to hand 40+ minutes to Tay or Sheed who keep struggeling badly.

Dallas did get a lot of questionable calls, but the Pistons missed many bunnies as well.

Everyone misses bunnies. Just a couple of bad calls can be a 5-8 point difference. If Stack did not get those 3 free throws or those 2 bad calls on Dyess and Webber, Sheed gets hacked and a Dallas player gets the same call on the next possetion.

I just got thru watching the DVR of the game and I dont really do a lot of recaps but I feel i must, so here's the must:

1. We played without Chauncey


...nuff said!

Fatigue was the overriding factor in this game. Our two leading scorers, Murray and Dyess, have one thing in common. Flip Suanders has not ridden them into the ground yet. Rip Hamilton does not have a game like that, where he can't even hit free throws, clutch or otherwise. We played a 7 man rotation. What's worse, in neither half did Flip Saunders bring any sub in the game for the 1st or 3rd quarters except Dyess. Just run them into the ground, and of course, turn around and complain about lack of effort.

How does Flip Murray, a guy who is not known for playing defense, a guy out of the rotation for a long stretch of the season, end up with clutch minutes over Delfino at the end of the game. Murray got burnt twice by Terry there to give Dallas control of the game. Murray did not have a bad game, but he certainly did get overplayed. Its great that he scored 18, but defense is part of the game. Another 4 steals from him was great, but not good enough to compensate for his otherwise poor D.

Due to foul trouble, we used Prince at power forward some, even though Maxiell did not get to play except for 30 or so seconds. Two straight games cutting Maxiell out of the rotation. Davis has not played lately; looks like a repeat of last season on that score.

Yes, there were some bad calls against us. It happens. But the game should not have been that close. We are better than Dallas, if only given a chance to play our guys rested. Billups is already out for injury. At this rate, none of our starters are apt to go into the playoffs rested or healthy. We need both, we will get neither. Just because Orlando slaughtered Miami today does not mean we can beat Miami. We don't have any true centers. Only by using a bench can we beat Miami. The media would have you believe our bench is getting more play this year. Who?

Though tired and playing ragged, our starters did give whatever they had. Can't fault effort.

Dyess scored equally inside and out in this one. One player I say is being played perfectly.

Flip Murray was out of control just a bit here and there but made good decisions most of the time. A turnover or two, but he played over 40 minutes so thats to be expected. Good shooting night for him.

A near complete lack of offensive boards thru at least the first 3 quarters by the Pistons. Thats an effort stat. But like I am trying to say, effort, with nothing in the tank to give, falls short.

Webber continues to amaze with his passing, and his team has caught on to the fact they better be ready to receive the ball, cause it coming. Still, Webber even looked tired. He has played some darn heavy minutes. A lot of 20-10 or near 20-10 games for us sure, but a whole lot of minutes for someone coming off a long layoff.

I hope two things. One, the media takes off its blinders and really starts looking at the fact our bench is not developing. Our youth, except for Delfino, is not getting regular minutes. And two, I hope somebody in the Pistons management starts telling Flip no, its not time to step it up, its time to prepare. Prepare for the playoffs. Tonights game did nothing for that. Playing everyone too much who does not need the minutes, and the young guys that do need the minutes, they are sitting on the bench being wasted.

I like the idea of playing the Mavs at their place in the Finals. If we can split the first 2 (this is assuming of course we make it to the Finals with the Mavs), this is a series we could win.

They did not get our best effort tonight.

Nice job on the leecap.

I like the idea of playing the Mavs at their place in the Finals. If we can split the first 2 (this is assuming of course we make it to the Finals with the Mavs), this is a series we could win.


I like the idea of playing the Mavs too because the Pistons are better inside at all 5 positions.

Just kidn....
aside from that:

1. SHEED...Played the usual game he plays against superstars: LIKE A PUNK. Terrible 3's in the 4th and the ususal MAGGLIO ORDONEZ performance come crunch time..
2. RIP ...was high. 5 Missed free throws? What do these guys do when they come home. He needs to stop DLin with Ameche after those long trips...
3. THE ONE I HATE...no problem with his game today. None. Very proud of him.
4. TAY...a 30 pt effort turned into a 14 pt performance, as usual. Should have dominated this game.
5. WEBBER..looked very tired in agame wwhere a 20-10 game should have been easy for him or Sheed...lost his edge in the 2nd half
6. MCDYESS....excellent ..but should hve scored 25..easy!
7. DELFINO..worse D game I ever seen him play. rotation off the pick and roll was awful.

BASICALLY..8 missed KEY free throws, Sheed not manning up on Mr Diggler, and Avery outcoaching Flip. But I aint impressed by this loss cuz CB and Hunter trumps George and Buckner ANY DAY>>>

Speaking of Dirk Diggler , Boogie Nights is on IFC tonite.......3rd greatest movie of all time:

1. THE GODFATHER
2. APOCALYPSE NOW.............

I'm kinda surprised everyone is on Sheed, when it was Webber who kept getting caught on Nowiztki and couldn't stop him from either driving or pulling up.

Dirk got hot in Chris and then kept it going against Sheed.

Still, I like our team against theirs. We blew them out in their building, and just lost in the last 2 minutes in ours.

San Antonio is a much tougher opponent IMO.

lookin at the boxscore, we lost cuz their bigs Dirk and Harris outplayed our bigs Sheed and Rip..except Hrris aint no big............

it seemed to me that after the half, Dallas picked up their D intensity just a little bit. That threw us off. We were still executing but we were reacting to them...not making them react to us.

I'm kinda surprised everyone is on Sheed, when it was Webber who kept getting caught on Nowiztki and couldn't stop him from either driving or pulling up.

Dirk got hot in Chris and then kept it going against Sheed.

Still, I like our team against theirs. We blew them out in their building, and just lost in the last 2 minutes in ours.

San Antonio is a much tougher opponent IMO.
Don't hang on the board as much as I used to because it seems as if the hoop IQ on this board is at an all time low.

If any of you really watched and understood the game you would have noticed that Sheed really locked into DIrk big time and The big German couldn't do much of anything. Avery then began to run a pick and roll that caused a Sheeb/Webb switch where Dirk took it to webb repeatedly. For crying out loud we lost a game to the best team in the NBA without our starting PG, and our leading scorer shooting as if his lasik surgery was coming back to haunt him, and we still only lost because in the end of close games you need to make shots, they hit 'em, we didn't- end of story. We played solid D, got great production from guys that needed to step up, but we lost cause we missed some shots due to lack of execution down the stretch, which w/out your starting all-star pg is to be expected.

I pretty much encouraged by this week.
1-We can just flat out BEAT phx
2-We beat DALLAS once in Dallas, and they barely beat us with an off shooting Rip, and no Chauncey.
3-We know we can go toe2toe w/SA
I don't know about you guys but I feel we are ready to seriously compete for that 2nd title. This team now knows exactly what type of game they want to play to win, we finally have an identity.

Nice job on the leecap.

Agreed, very nice job Lee.

I agree with your take 100%.

Kgreg,

I am seeing the same things that you pointed out. The Piston machine is ready to roll.

Kgreg I haven't seen a board that has a collective superior bball IQ... quite honestly bball intellegence isn't a prerequisite for posting ones opinions... the ignore list can be an effective tool.

I agree that Sheed did a fine job on Dirk (other than that last minute 3)... and I'm glad you brought up all of the P&Rs that caused the switches with CWebb (Roscoe also mentioned this).... BUT, they've been effectively beating us on the games oldest play for a few years now... they're as good as San Antone at finishing on that play.... we'll have to figure a way to jam down and recover better... we can't afford those switches.

Kgreg I haven't seen a board that has a collective superior bball IQ... quite honestly bball intellegence isn't a prerequisite for posting ones opinions... the ignore list can be an effective tool.

I agree that Sheed did a fine job on Dirk (other than that last minute 3)... and I'm glad you brought up all of the P&Rs that caused the switches with CWebb (Roscoe also mentioned this).... BUT, they've been effectively beating us on the games oldest play for a few years now... they're as good as San Antone at finishing on that play.... we'll have to figure a way to jam down and recover better... we can't afford those switches.
Yeah, I'm sounding a little pretentious....sorry 'bout that. But dang sometimes I wonder what game/team are some cats watchin'.

Nobody has solved the enigma known as the Pick and Roll, all you can do is give a superior effort and hope. Last season it was Ben switching out on the P&R, now it's Webb, not exactly a good thing. While I love what Webb is bringing, there is no doubt at all that he's a liability in a P&R. Realistically there's no way I expect Webb to Hedge and Recover 20 ft from the basket on a P&R. Maybe we go match-up zone a few poss's and take away rhythm, but Dirk's unorthodox game causes nightmares, at the end of the day there's really no answer for a sweet shooting 7'er who can put the ball on the floor. What we did today was about a good of a job as one should reasonably expect.

'Sheed chafes, Pistons fade

AUBURN HILLS -- Turns out, a statement did come out of the Mavericks' 92-88 victory over the Pistons on Sunday.
It's not that the Mavericks proved they could win a grind-it-out defensive, Eastern Conference-type game.
It's not that they exposed any weakness or established any kind of dominance on the Pistons.
Look, both of these teams know they can beat anybody, anytime, anywhere. A win or a loss in the middle of March wasn't going to change that one way or another.
No. What this game showed is something the Pistons should have learned by now -- their margin of error against elite teams is small. Every player has to be on the same page, especially at crunch time, or things can go very wrong.
That's what happened here Sunday.
Chauncey Billups sat out with a strained left groin muscle. Flip Murray again filled in nobly with 18 points, six assists, four steals and two turnovers. Billups' absence didn't swing the balance in this game.
Richard Hamilton, who took three stitches over his left eye after running into Chris Webber's elbow late in the game, managed just 13 points. Shockingly, he missed five of seven free throws in the fourth quarter, two that would have tied the score with 2:45 left.
"It was like someone popped a balloon on us," coach Flip Saunders said of the missed free throws.
That was the obvious difference in the outcome, and Hamilton was more than willing to accept the blame.
"If I step up and make those free throws, then it's a whole different story," Hamilton said. "After I missed, they were able to come down with some confidence. I make them and it's a whole different situation."
But there was something more covert, and possibly something more serious, that ultimately sunk the Pistons on Sunday. Rasheed Wallace jumped off the page in the fourth quarter. He became upset at the strategy Saunders deployed against the Mavericks' small lineup in the fourth quarter.
When asked where the game got away from them, Wallace said: "Honestly, I choose to keep that to myself. We didn't get a couple of stops, they hit a couple of shots. Give them credit."
The Mavericks went small two minutes into the fourth quarter -- three guards and Josh Howard at power forward, with Dirk Nowitzki -- and quickly erased the Pistons' four-point lead. Saunders chose to stay with a big lineup (keeping Antonio McDyess and Webber on the floor) for five possessions. The Mavericks ran off an 11-2 run and took control of the game.
Offensively, the Pistons missed some easy opportunities, including two free throws by Hamilton. After Wallace scored, Saunders decided to downsize his lineup to match the Mavericks.
The Pistons scored five quick points to pull within one, but, even though downsizing got the Pistons untracked, Wallace was out of sorts.
"I think we should have stayed big," he said. "Let them change to us. We shouldn't change to them."
The Mavericks went back to their big lineup right after the Pistons' run. But Wallace -- who had played an inspired game to that point with 13 points, six rebounds, three blocks -- never regrouped.
The pivotal play came with 4:08 left. After a steal by Murray, Hamilton was fouled hard by Erick Dampier. It was ruled a flagrant 1 foul, giving the Pistons two free throws and possession. They were down one and had a chance to score four points. They scored one. Hamilton missed one free throw and Wallace, breaking off the play, fired up an errant, heavily contested 3-pointer.
"A lot of teams try to go small on us and it usually doesn't bother us too much," said Webber. "I just think we got away from going inside and trying to force Dirk to play defense on the block."
Wallace missed his last four shots, two of them wild perimeter shots after he broke the play. He also was caught out of position defensively several times down the stretch, allowing Nowitzki (28 points, 21 in the second half) to score two back-breaking buckets.
The Mavericks ran side pick-and-roll with Jason Terry and Nowitzki the last eight possessions of the game -- and they scored on six of them. Clearly, whether it was caused by Wallace or something else, the Pistons were uncharacteristically distracted on the defensive end at winning time.
And that is the lesson that came out of this game. The difference between winning and losing, especially against elite teams, can be as small as one player stepping outside the team concept for just a short couple of minutes.

----------------

I knew he looked a little off at the end of the game esp on defense on that last Nowitzki shot. It a catch 22 than he always plays w/ his emotions on his sleeve . . .

At least Webber got it right about us not going inside against Dirk enough.

Can't give much comments cuz I did not watch the game. However, from the boxscore and thru some comments by my fellow forumites at the chat, I think we lost the game because of fatigue. Starters played way too much as we are shorthanded in this game. 7 man rotation against a deep and healthy Mavs is just too much to ask from our players. We did a good job matching them for 45 minutes of the game. We were up 10 at one point.

I bet Rip would not have miss so many FTs towards the end if he is limited to 35 minutes. Yes, one can argue that he should be able to play 40 min for his age but bear in mind that Rip has been averaging 38 min for the past 4 yrs, All Star games the past 2 yrs and the Playoffs for the past 5 yrs. Way too many minutes for Tay as well.

Flip did good the past 2 games and we can only hope he will be consistent come playoff time with the limited minutes once CB and Lindsey comes back from the injury and suspension respectively.

Yall can say we can beat the Suns, Mavs or even the Spurs in the Finals. I personally think that the Heat that we should be concern before thinking about the Finals. If we limit ourselves to 18 games or less en route becoming the Eastern Conference Champions, then we should have an advantage to becoming NBA Champions once again.

I only watched this one once so I am trying to recall specifics of the game that led to the loss.

In a close game like this you can pinpoint a few incidents that ultimately affected outcome of the game.

First the bad foul at the end of the first quarter, I think by Dice on Stackhouse and he sinks 3 FT's

Then after Delfino hits the 3 ball to go up 10 pts in the second, the Mavs call a time out and the Pistons allow them to close out the quarter on a 14-8 run, with some questionable shot selections. It was time to bury them then and we failed to.

Then there was the Dampier flagrant foul where Rip missed both FT's. He later missed again on both ends of another FT opportunity. (Pistons missed a total of 8)

The most blatant ref mistake was when Sheed got fouled on a missed put back in crunch time and instead of shooting FT's, the ball was taken out from the side and Pistons of course falied to score on that possession.

Don't mind running the offense thru Tay, but he's got to pass off to an open man instead of trying to back down to defenders at once. Webber had 3 assists in the first quarter and none after that??

Finally this was not a playoff game, so Flip tightening the roster down to literaly 7 players (Max played 38 seconds) may have been a bad idea as all starters with the exception of Webber played 40+ minutes Ok you will say that Avery J did the same, but his players seem to be in better condition as they shoot better from both FT line and the floor in crunch time..........

This was only a 4 pt win, but a loss to the Pistons by the Mavs and this would have been psychologically damaging to them if they had got swept by the Pistons...especially with Billups in a suit and tie.

We are OK though and with Hunter and Cb down, we are learning that junior can contribute come post season...if Senior lets him play:sssh:

If any of you really watched and understood the game you would have noticed that Sheed really locked into DIrk big time and The big German couldn't do much of anything. Avery then began to run a pick and roll that caused a Sheeb/Webb switch where Dirk took it to webb repeatedly. For crying out loud we lost a game to the best team in the NBA without our starting PG, and our leading scorer shooting as if his lasik surgery was coming back to haunt him, and we still only lost because in the end of close games you need to make shots, they hit 'em, we didn't- end of story. We played solid D, got great production from guys that needed to step up, but we lost cause we missed some shots due to lack of execution down the stretch, which w/out your starting all-star pg is to be expected.
I've really come to realize that this year. The margin between victory and defeat for two good teams is tiny.

Yeah, I'm sounding a little pretentious....sorry 'bout that. But dang sometimes I wonder what game/team are some cats watchin'.
A lot of these felonious cats don't have tv!

Nobody has solved the enigma known as the Pick and Roll, all you can do is give a superior effort and hope. Last season it was Ben switching out on the P&R, now it's Webb, not exactly a good thing. While I love what Webb is bringing, there is no doubt at all that he's a liability in a P&R. Realistically there's no way I expect Webb to Hedge and Recover 20 ft from the basket on a P&R. Maybe we go match-up zone a few poss's and take away rhythm, but Dirk's unorthodox game causes nightmares, at the end of the day there's really no answer for a sweet shooting 7'er who can put the ball on the floor. What we did today was about a good of a job as one should reasonably expect.
I gotta disagree there. I think we can do better.

Dirk is a choker. He's bothered by length and physicality. He's slowly learning to overcome his fear of being hammered on the way to the hoop, but you have to lay the wood on him nonetheless.

And yeah, he's tall which is why you don't get sucked into small ball against the Mavs. I've seen them 4 or 5 times this year, and I know that when they go small with Dirk at center, they are very tough to stop offensively.

Dallas version of the game:

Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | SportsDay: Basketball: Mavericks (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/031907dnspomavslede.2492eb7.html)

In a close game like this you can pinpoint a few incidents that ultimately affected outcome of the game.

First the bad foul at the end of the first quarter, I think by Dice on Stackhouse and he sinks 3 FT's

I did see that part of the game, though none of the second half. That foul on the three attempt by Stack was on CWebb.

i'm encouraged by this game. there were some bad, bad calls...the stackhouse 3 was a joke. rip got hacked in the post and you could hear the slap - nothing called. one time josh howard is running around, gets fouled and they say it was in the act of shooting, yet another time sheed is going for a putback, gets fouled, and the ball has to go out on the sideline. ridiculous.

in either case, the espn daily dime showed that rip plays awful against dallas - 40% shooting instead of 49%, fewer points per game, and 60% free throw shooting versus his usualy 87%. really strange...and hopefully it won't carry over if both teams make it to the finals.

we mostly lost in the 2nd half because we stopped playing inside-out and were employing the one-pass-then-shoot strategy...but since it's a regular season game i'm fine with that.

In the playoffs, every team tries to take away Rip. Since he doesn't play the screen game as much anymore, it's not that hard to stick your best defender on him and limit his open looks and touches.

That is why it is so important to have outside shooting and post ups from Sheed and Chauncey. They help space the floor and limit double teams.

Basketball is a game of momentum and runs. Getting an opponent flustered (out of their game) is key.

yeah you have a point there. rip's been much less of a factor since c-webb came here, but i'm fine with that because it means he doesn't have to have a fantastic game for us to win (although if both he and chauncey are struggling, that really hurts us).

In the playoffs, every team tries to take away Rip. Since he doesn't play the screen game as much anymore, it's not that hard to stick your best defender on him and limit his open looks and touches.



Good observation Roscoe.

Devin Harris frustrated Rip a little yesterday, his speed allowed him to stay right with Rip, even if he came over the top of some screens.

When Rip gets frustrated, he sometimes tries to create his own shot, which is not his game, it usually results in bad shots or turns.

Just kidn....
aside from that:

1. SHEED...Played the usual game he plays against superstars: LIKE A PUNK. Terrible 3's in the 4th and the ususal MAGGLIO ORDONEZ performance come crunch time..
2. RIP ...was high. 5 Missed free throws? What do these guys do when they come home. He needs to stop DLin with Ameche after those long trips...
3. THE ONE I HATE...no problem with his game today. None. Very proud of him.
4. TAY...a 30 pt effort turned into a 14 pt performance, as usual. Should have dominated this game.
5. WEBBER..looked very tired in agame wwhere a 20-10 game should have been easy for him or Sheed...lost his edge in the 2nd half
6. MCDYESS....excellent ..but should hve scored 25..easy!
7. DELFINO..worse D game I ever seen him play. rotation off the pick and roll was awful.

BASICALLY..8 missed KEY free throws, Sheed not manning up on Mr Diggler, and Avery outcoaching Flip. But I aint impressed by this loss cuz CB and Hunter trumps George and Buckner ANY DAY>>>

Speaking of Dirk Diggler , Boogie Nights is on IFC tonite.......3rd greatest movie of all time:

1. THE GODFATHER
2. APOCALYPSE NOW.............
Had to repost my take because in my lilmited english, I think we all agreed on everything.
1. CB didnt play
2. We finally had a bad FT game
3. Sheed start losing his mind. If he'd post up(did u see how sweet his Elvin Hayes like fade was) we'd be unstoppable.(i love when my girl says stuff like "Why cant he just stay down there all the time!:pound: )

All in all, it was a good game for ABC. Nice to see a tough game played without the overblown hyperbole of Kobe, Dwade, and LeBron.

TOP NBA TEAMS as of today:
1. DALLAS
2. DETROIT
3. SAN ANTONIO
4. CLEVELAND
5. MIAMI
6. PHOENIX
7. HOUSTON
8. TORONTO
9. GOLDEN ST
10. CHICAGO
HEAD TO HEAD...the east is better than the west...WE HAVE THE RINGS TO PROVE IT(outside Lakers and Spurs, name last West NBA champ..quik-quik0

HEAD TO HEAD...the east is better than the west...WE HAVE THE RINGS TO PROVE IT(outside Lakers and Spurs, name last West NBA champ..quik-quik0

Houston. Of course, by saying "outside Lakers and Spurs," you're writing off six 'ships right there!

Houston. Of course, by saying "outside Lakers and Spurs," you're writing off six 'ships right there!yesssurr!!...like Sheed said:" let them adjust to us!"

All in all, it was a good game for ABC. Nice to see a tough game played without the overblown hyperbole of Kobe, Dwade, and LeBron.

TOP NBA TEAMS as of today:
1. DALLAS
2. DETROIT
3. SAN ANTONIO
4. CLEVELAND
5. MIAMI
6. PHOENIX
7. HOUSTON
8. TORONTO
9. GOLDEN ST
10. CHICAGO
HEAD TO HEAD...the east is better than the west...WE HAVE THE RINGS TO PROVE IT(outside Lakers and Spurs, name last West NBA champ..quik-quik0

Old HQ, I agree with your top 10 for the time being as these have been the hottest teams since the break.

You can go back 25 years and find that only eight teams have won the title, 5 from the east and 3 from the west. (East leads 14-12). This is an exlcusive club and we should have never of allowed some expansion team like the Heat to get in.....:^

East
Bulls 6
Pistons 3
Celtics 3
Sixers 1
Heat 1

West
Lakers 7
Spurs 3
Rockets 2

Anything new to this newest tidbit about tension between Rasheed and Flip?...McCoskey suggesting that Rasheed was none to happy with Flip's managment of the game late...Saying that playing Dallas' game by going small was not the right way to go...Can't say I disagree with him on that.

FCBarca,

I think this will come to a head this offseason if the Pistons do not have a successful playoff run.

Flip looked very frustrated with Sheed too at the end of the 4th when Sheed jacked up the ill advised brick of a three. I've never seen Flip throw up his hands in exasperation like that...yeah, the tension is there.

So, I guess Sheed is the new malcontent???:stirthepot:

:censored: :tape2:

:pirates::smoke06:

The most blatant ref mistake was when Sheed got fouled on a missed put back in crunch time and instead of shooting FT's, the ball was taken out from the side and Pistons of course falied to score on that possession.

Don't mind running the offense thru Tay, but he's got to pass off to an open man instead of trying to back down to defenders at once.
I only saw part of the game.

You're right about that play with Sheed...he was definitely in the act of shooting...even the ABC broadcast 'brain-trust' knew it and were scratching their heads verbally.

You're right about Tay backing down too. The one play I saw had him backing down right of the paint, receiving the DT as he got close to rim, missed his patented little lefty-hook, but got the put-back. I really like to see Tay posting most defenders because he CAN take most of them, one-on-one. But there are two problems I have with Tay's post play:

1) It's always from right of the paint, protecting his dribble and his shot. You rarely see him dribbling left of the paint and rarely see him shoot from the left side unless he's outside the arc. I wish he'd work on developing his right side this off season to make himself less predictable to the opponent. I think back to the work Rip did on his 3's before last season...he came into last season and surprised the hell out of opponents and most of us by being able to do what we never expected him to be able to do. With the big money should come a desire to make your game even better, in any way possible, all the time.

2) Tay is slowww in backing down defenders. He spends so much time doing it that his defender will many times get help when he closes on the paint. Which kinda leads to your point about him knowing when he should kick it out.

I really like Tay. I just hope his new contract doesn't make him lackadaisical in bettering his game.

I only saw part of the game.

You're right about that play with Sheed...he was definitely in the act of shooting...even the ABC broadcast 'brain-trust' knew it and were scratching their heads verbally.

You're right about Tay backing down too. The one play I saw had him backing down right of the paint, receiving the DT as he got close to rim, missed his patented little lefty-hook, but got the put-back. I really like to see Tay posting most defenders because he CAN take most of them. But there are two problems I have with Tay's post play:

1) It's always from right of the paint, protecting his dribble and his shot. You rarely see him dribbling left of the paint and rarely see him shoot from the left side unless he's outside the arc. I wish he'd work on developing his right side this off season to make himself less predictable to the opponent.

2) Tay is slowww in backing down defenders. He spends so much time doing it that his defender will always get help when he closes on the paint. Which kinda leads to your point about him knowing when he should kick it out.
.

It's a play that he will try at least 3-4 times a game and the rest of the team stands around watching. This team is good, but they would be better if they wouldn't go into sleep mode when somebody trying a one on five maneuver.

It's a play that he will try at least 3-4 times a game and the rest of the team stands around watching. This team is good, but they would be better if they wouldn't go into sleep mode when somebody trying a one on five maneuver.Yeah...I've seen it over-and-over. Hey Flipper...here's a thot...how about having a player step in behind Tay's slow back down to pick Rip's defender so he can receive the pass?

It's a play that he will try at least 3-4 times a game and the rest of the team stands around watching. This team is good, but they would be better if they wouldn't go into sleep mode when somebody trying a one on five maneuver.

Agree with that. There were a couple times during the Portland and Sonics game when either Sheed or Tay were working the post, and the rest of the team was just watching. I was yelling "little help!", but the Pistons weren't listening.

Agree with that. There were a couple times during the Portland and Sonics game when either Sheed or Tay were working the post, and the rest of the team was just watching. I was yelling "little help!", but the Pistons weren't listening.

Lin, I am sure your voice is louder than Flips, but remember they don't listen to him either. :)

No doubt, Dre. I'm not sure they need it as much since the arrival of CWebb, but I really miss Rip's midrange game. Watching him work the screens is a thing of beauty, and it seems that they have gone away from that strategy lately. If one of the bigs could hit Hamilton in motion...

I don't think we lost because of any given play or call. Our offense started to stall after that run in the 2nd quarter. Murray did a fine, fine job but he cannot run the offense for 35 minutes against an elite team with the same efficiency as Billips. Our sets were not crisp.

Chris looked a bit tired from his big game against the Suns, so he couldn't bail us out on offense. Sheed wasn't as lively on offense either despite taking quite a few shots. By the 4th, we had no movement in the offense and so they squeezed out a win.

Our defense was a bit lax as we were understandably tired/spent. That happens in the regular season with scheduling.

Dallas did not do anything to scare us.

I
2) Tay is slowww in backing down defenders. He spends so much time doing it that his defender will many times get help when he closes on the paint. Which kinda leads to your point about him knowing when he should kick it out.
Gotta agree with this... it's almost like he's saying here let me slow it down so you can help on me... just get it done.... Sheeds the same way (think I'll lick my fingers first).

The way I was taught to post up was to make your self wide bump the body then call or the ball (first get in the paint area)... get the ball and first look for a double team... pass to the open man or make a quick move... my coach would get all over me if I took too long.

No doubt, Dre. I'm not sure they need it as much since the arrival of CWebb, but I really miss Rip's midrange game. Watching him work the screens is a thing of beauty, and it seems that they have gone away from that strategy lately. If one of the bigs could hit Hamilton in motion...HEY! That's in the part of Flip's 'play book' that we haven't seen yet. :sssh: It's a secret...:sssh:

Subliminal Flip in his office tonight: :reading: Dammit! Fino told me these guys were on to something. What was the name of that Pistons website? S^%&!!! I knew I shoulda asked Fino for his cell number! :gaah: I gotta talk to this AnDREa... :burp: :sleep:

:gaah: <------the OFFICIAL smilie of Jason Maxiell

While I'm thinking about it there was one thing that absolutely killed us in the phx game. I can't believe i'M ABOUT TO TYPE THIS BUT......We got off our game everytime Flip Jr came out the game and off the point. Tay did ok but with Tay, Rip and Fino on the court at the same time I swear there were possessions where all five players were on the same side of the court. This was a line-up where they were not sure as to who was suppossed to be where. They were all standing in the same wing for crying out loud while DYess and Webb/Sheed were playing a high/low post game. It wasn't anybody's fault really, but it shows what happens when we have both rotational PG's out of the fold, the unfamiliarity becomes a beach.

Anything new to this newest tidbit about tension between Rasheed and Flip?...McCoskey suggesting that Rasheed was none to happy with Flip's managment of the game late...Saying that playing Dallas' game by going small was not the right way to go...Can't say I disagree with him on that.

agreed as well--but hell, sheed isn't the coach and shouldn't be jacking up retarded azz three's because he doesn't like something the coach does--dude needs to grow up. That's something I expect out of players in the PSL--not the League.