View Full Version : Is it Dumb to Take a Player Out With Two Fouls?
roscoe36
04-07-2007, 10:35 AM
Link courtesy of ESPN-Truehoop.
BasketBloom: Arbitrary Boundaries. (http://basketbloom.blogspot.com/2007/04/arbitrary-boundaries.html)
There is some merit to all this, but NBA basketball games are won by those teams that play the best over forty-eight minutes (college, forty). There is something fallacious about thinking that the last basket counts more than the first -- they both are worth two -- well, or three. The causal arrow from the last basket to the final score is shorter, but they both count. The "game-winning" shot is the last one that puts the winning team ahead, but the previous shots got them there.
Darth Tater
04-07-2007, 11:12 AM
Personally, I always thought it was absolutely illogical to take a player out of a game if the ONLY reason was because of his foul situation. I figured you may as well use him till you lose him. It makes absolutely no sense to me to take a guy out of the game anticipating that he will foul out later. He may not. Then what have you gained?
roscoe36
04-07-2007, 11:17 AM
I feel the same way Tater. Remember in the old days, when guys would actually foul out? Coaches are terrified of using up fouls these days.
detteam
04-07-2007, 12:16 PM
Good question. There are logical arguments for either answer.
Yes: The 2-foul player general gets pulled from the starting unit before they have actually needed a rest...statistically reducing the effectiveness of the unit that ends up on the floor. Pulling a starter early can drag down the rest of the starters and throw the team off it's game, killing much of the psychological edge they may have begun the game with...we've seen this a number of times with Shaq as an example.
No: The 2-foul player has started the game on an off note and should sit to allow them to regroup for a while. Assuming the bench is strong enough to keep the game competitive, the starter is being saved for crunch time when the game may be on the line.
Obviously, there are in-game variables to consider in making the decision...some of which:
1) general flow of the game
2) does it appear a ref came into the game with a tude
3) matchup problems/opportunities on both ends of the floor
4) did the starter begin the game pretty well, except for the fouls
The Low
04-07-2007, 12:19 PM
Also include the fact that you can use that fear against your opponent, by attacking the basket and/or drawing fouls (even with poor FT shooters) in order to force the opposing coach to pull his players for that fear of having them foul out.
Slippy
04-07-2007, 12:20 PM
I think it makes sense to take a guy out early. The thing that separates the average from the great is the ability to perform under pressure. Sure those 10 points are important but if it ever came down to 1 basket would you REALLY want delfino in instead of Tay or Rip?
detteam
04-07-2007, 12:48 PM
Also include the fact that you can use that fear against your opponent, by attacking the basket and/or drawing fouls (even with poor FT shooters) in order to force the opposing coach to pull his players for that fear of having them foul out.Agreed...the 2-foul player becomes a big target
Pistons lost the 1995 Finals because of that 2-foul rule. Have to be more flexible than that.
lemonpen
04-07-2007, 03:19 PM
Pistons lost the 1995 Finals because of that 2-foul rule. Have to be more flexible than that.
95 ?????
It's dumb to take out a reserve with four.
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