At NewYork April 9 7:30PM

tv: FSN

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BONUS PIC, RENALDO!

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Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

This could be the Eastern Conference #1 seed clinching game!

GO PISTONS!

GRRRRRRRR

Very good games from Chauncey and Flip Murray. Decent game from McDyess. Everyone else mediocre to awful.

No Hunter.

Playoff style coaching from Flip (i.e., two substitutions in the second half and one fourth quarter defensive changeup).

Observations.

Mardy Collins > Will Blalock.

Steve Francis is a tool.

Patrick Ewing looks older than John Thompson.

ahb keeps leaving chat at halftime, just as Flip Murray starts heating up.

The Knicks had no chance to beat the Pistons without Renaldo.

Prince and Delfino had some sweet dunk finishes.

BillLaimbeer seems pretty adamant about never doing a game recap for the forum.

Chris Webber has already started putting in a punk effort in Detroit. It's been going on for weeks now, and no one wants to call a spade a spade. Well, I will.

Observations.

Mardy Collins > Will Blalock.

Steve Francis is a tool.

Patrick Ewing looks older than John Thompson.

ahb keeps leaving chat at halftime, just as Flip Murray starts heating up.

The Knicks had no chance to beat the Pistons without Renaldo.

Prince and Delfino had some sweet dunk finishes.

BillLaimbeer seems pretty adamant about never doing a game recap for the forum.

Chris Webber has already started putting in a punk effort in Detroit. It's been going on for weeks now, and no one wants to call a spade a spade. Well, I will.

Webber is coming off an extended bout with the flu. He has got double doubles the last two games. Tonight he did a little bit of damage inside for us in the first quarter, and made a nice pass or two. He also got a few shots at guarding Curry. Curry is a load. You got to give anyone who spent time defending him, while Curry was not scoring, some credit.

A well coached game. Three bench players were in the whole 2nd, and most of the 4th quarters. Rip maybe could have come out a bit earlier there, but hey he came out soon enough, and came back fresh enough to bury two clutch shots in the last minute, including a triple. Sheed had the clutch slam back, great timing on that. Billups started it all with his clutch midranger, abusing the short Nate Robinson. Not to mention he hit three triples to help get it tied up after we were down ten late 3rd. His second one beat the 3rd quarter buzzer.

Tay was tired too, and probably could have used some rest himself. He was missing his short jumpers and even missed both free throws late. But the Pistons were playing some great D out there with that unit. Another bench player, Dyess, finished this one up. A better defensive player vs. Webber, and the right guy for the job at the moment.

Dale Davis played quite a bit, and did a fine job guarding Curry, and getting several rebounds in his spare time.

Delfino had a pretty good 2nd quarter. Seven points, all inside, including posterizing Curry. But he missed a few outside shots.

Murray took a few ill advised shots here and there, but for the most part he made good decisions. He used some screens to make a couple of jumpers, got inside for the and one. As a team, the Pistons did very, very well with him in the game. He was in there as the 10 point deficit was erased, as well as being part of a 15-2 run mid 2nd quarter.

No Hunter, and so no pairing of Murray and Hunter. No Jason, but hey, Dale Davis was the right guy for the job tonight, and he got the job done.

Billups had an outstanding game, except for being a little lax on D at times on the quicker Nate R. As a team, we shot 1 for 10 on threes in the 1st half, with CB making the only one. Sheed continues to look for that elusive 100th triple.

Rip made some shots early, but NY did a very good job on focusing on him, limiting good shots for him. Then he came up big at the end.

We contained Curry quite well in the first half. We started out aggressively double teaming him, and then concentrated on just keeping the ball away from him completely. Third quarter though saw Curry get more aggressive, and that is a big reason we fell behind in that quarter. Somebody named Dale came along though and repaired that leak.

Webber is coming off an extended bout with the flu. He has got double doubles the last two games. Tonight he did a little bit of damage inside for us in the first quarter, and made a nice pass or two. He also got a few shots at guarding Curry. Curry is a load. You got to give anyone who spent time defending him, while Curry was not scoring, some credit. (Talking about the first qaurter only.)

Sheed did not do much really on O, but he was the primary defender on Curry, so he was still a good part of this win.

Four bench players got significant minutes in this game. And the starters are all healthy. And Hunter and Maxiell were available. Some pretty good depth going into the playoffs. The biggest problem I see is lack of a backup point guard.

With Orlando winning tonight, I think that about squashed NY's hopes for this season. Oh, and congrats to the Pistons on their 6th straight 50 win season. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Webber isn't even trying on defense lee. His rebounding has been half it was when he joined this team. He isn't making any plays.

The flu excuse is over. Rip had a concussion and he's made more progress coming back.

Two games in a row where Billups plays the entire second half and comes up big down the stretch. This was a back to back...Flip is treading dangerous waters here as I can see Cb getting hurt with the over extention of play here.

Just a few other points> Magic # down 1 for clinching HCA, although with a 26-13 road record, does it really matter? Pistons road record last year was 27-14.

Pistons surpass both Rockets and Jazz in getting to 50 first (but can we beat them in the post season if either somehow lucks their way into the finals. :MusicBigGrin:

Knicks outshoot Pistons in Fg%, Ft % and 3 ball. Pistons took to many uneccessary three balls (5-22). However the ones that Billups took in the 4th wer very timely. Rip looked tired out there to start the fourth and threw up an assortment of airballs and bricks before Flip pulled him for that needed rest. he came back in to hit a 3 and short jumper and canned 2 FT's down the stretch to help secure the victory.

Tay had a key slam over Curry in the late fourth. Flip jr helped to lead the charge while Rip was resting and Dice was his usual self>grabbing a double-double with 11 pts & 13 boards. Stat of the night=leadfoot Webber had no boards in 22 minutes?? Delfino came in real early in the 1st but had a poor shooting night (3-8) and 7 pts.

Knicks Nate Robinsons' 14 pts in the third quarter almost eclipse Pistons total third quarter output of 18 pts. He and Curry are the only knicks to show-up with 24 points a piece. Stevie Franchise may have turned the momentum in Pistons favor as he argued a no call when two pistons double teamed him into the corner and was tossed for saying something about Steve Javie's mother. Post game comments : Zeke said that the Pistons were VERY GOOD. Too bad he is now 3-11 since his contract extension and all but eliminated from the playoffs ...if they had just gone .500 over that period they would be sitting with 6th seed right now. :cold:

Webber isn't even trying on defense lee. His rebounding has been half it was when he joined this team. He isn't making any plays.

The flu excuse is over. Rip had a concussion and he's made more progress coming back.

He really hasn't been doing much of anything lately. He hasn't been finishing games. Dyess has been playing in crunch time now. Hope he's not sulking . . .

Tay needs a break. 39 min after playing 40+ last night. He looks awful.

Chauncey as mentioned the whole 2nd half again :frusty:

We need direction in our offense.

Tay needs a break. 39 min after playing 40+ last night. He looks awful.



He did have one of the Pistons' dunks of the year tonight though.

Good to see Billips show some offense lately. We will need him to do even more and return to pre-last year's playoffs form to go far. Tay looked awful out there tonight (except for that dunk) and they should give him some rest. He is a way better shooter than that.

Don't know about Webber. Have they scouted him out or is he just waiting for the playoffs? We need some steady offense from him.

Dyss has been like money in the bank lately.

Murray ran a good point with good passes and then getting offensive to keep the defense honest. A few bad shots as Lee pointed out but still a good stint. Why he doesn't do this more often is a mystery?

My concern is still with the offense. Again that drought hit us. When we go cold it seems to just get worse as if we were in quicksand. It wasn't great Knick defense. We need to have plays that can get us some easy reliable points since we don't have that great penetrator to bail us out. That has been my beef with this coach--that we don't run as smoothly as some of the other elite teams on offense. If we did, we would clearly be the most dominant team.

The other remedy (for the offensive droughts) is to play Detroit defense for 48 minutes. This team still needs to rely on defense if it is going to go far in the playoffs. Tough defense eliminates offensive droughts as it gets us some easy points.

My concern is still with the offense. Again that drought hit us. When we go cold it seems to just get worse as if we were in quicksand. It wasn't great Knick defense. We need to have plays that can get us some easy reliable points since we don't have that great penetrator to bail us out. That has been my beef with this coach--that we don't run as smoothly as some of the other elite teams on offense. If we did, we would clearly be the most dominant team.

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Lapiston, the issue is that no matter how much we criticize Billups, when he goes out to sit in the second quarter, the offense stalls then. Usually the culprit or force emitting this negative vibe is Hunter. We all know that he and Flip jr can't be on the floor at the same time as their no direction and over dribbling lead to too many perimter or forced shots with the clock running out. Hunter didn't play tonight, but he must have rubbed some of those vibes off Dale Davis, as the Pistons didn't regain control of the second qtr until DD sat down. Yepadoodle, Davis was out there with Junior..

In the second half there a couple of times where Davis was right by the hoop and still passed out to someone else to shoot.???? Has anybody noticed that Junior plays better in the second half than the first??

Lets hope Joe's reluctance to trade for another consistent backup PG doesn't comeback to haunts us the post season. Can't have to many scoring droughts in the playoffs and then over play your starters to stay in the game and get into the later rounds.....

C-Webb got his first tech as a Piston!

Dale Davis looks like a caveman!

Tayshaun deserves rest after playing 43:06 in the Cavs game and then playing 39 minutes tonight. That being said, beautiful in-yo-face dunk against Curry!

Nate Robinson is so widdle.... AWW! I felt bad for him, out there working his ass off and hustling like no other. And I thorougly enjoyed his near-save that led to a little dunkage from 'Fino. And I loved 'Fino's reaction after he slammed the ball home. He's one sexy Argentinian! Why didn't he play in the 2nd half?

Oh, Billups. What can I say? I love you!

Very nice follow up dunk from the 'Sheed. I enjoyed watching the bench's reaction to that. The judging on his vertical ranged from like 3 feet to to 9 inches... I love how everyone on the team seems to have fun even when the game is so close and the tension in the arena is suffocatingly thick.

No Hunter....?

McDyess is my hero. Thank goodness someone could rebound the ball! I can't believe C-Webb had 0 boards. I thought he was going to have a great game as soon as he scored that slow motion layup on Detroit's first posession. Oh, well...

...here's to going 4-0 against Orlando (and Darko!) on Wednesday! Cheers!

a haiku for the game:

did what we had to.
knicks had no chance to win it.
why was it so dark?

Yeah the Zekes brought some tenacity early in the season with their 5 OT wins. Zekes in the Lotto, do they have a pick? Sounds like they were all we could handle.

Dre,

I am not sure if it is so simple as the back up point (the droughts) but they do bother me because as you say, we can't afford too many of them in the playoffs. Certainly the back up point has been key in our problems on and off with that second unit. Murray has the talent to do what is necessary but he doesn't always show up.

Yes, usually the drought is with Billips out but sometimes we start the game slow too with our starters. We can't afford that either.

I think the problem (with the first unit early) lies somewhere in our APPROACH to the offense. It is too loose--a sort of create as you go. We have so much talent that our guys can do a lot of things. I would like to see our guys do less things but do them very well (Sheed on the block, Rip mid-range, Tay with a catch and shoot, etc.).

I won't worry about the droughts if we play Detroit defense including bringing in energy with the second line players and play tough defense from the first quarter.

Against Miami, it will mean giving some real playing time to Davis and let Nazi come in for a few minutes to serve up some fouls on Shaq also.

Yeah the Zekes brought some tenacity early in the season with their 5 OT wins. Zekes in the Lotto, do they have a pick? Sounds like they were all we could handle.

CHI has their pick AGAIN :doh:

NNNnNooooo.

.

I think the problem (with the first unit early) lies somewhere in our APPROACH to the offense. It is too loose--a sort of create as you go. We have so much talent that our guys can do a lot of things. I would like to see our guys do less things but do them very well (Sheed on the block, Rip mid-range, Tay with a catch and shoot, etc.).

I posted something similar to this on the Spurs/Pistons board. Basically what is our offense? Do we even have an offense? They were playing inside out for awhile which was successful, but they've abandoned that. Our offense doesn't go through C-Webb at all. We just don't seem to know what we want to do. Sheed's posting up while Rip's taking his man of the dribble. They're practically running into eachother. Too much one-on-one. The offense is either completely unstructered or way too complex.

I agree w/ you. People complain about Lb's offense being too simplistic, but at least it stuck to what each player does well. I cringe when i see Rip trying to take his man off the dribble, and i don't remember the last time i've seen him come off a curl and catch and shoot.

Just move the ball and stick to what your good at it.

We looked amazing against PHO when we were forced to stick to some sort of offensive game-plan. Flip has got them thinking they're so talented, they can just free-lance.

Maybe things will tighten up in the play-offs . . .

Our offense is guard driven. That's why they say we have the best backcourt in NBA. When CB and Rip got it going on everthing else falls into place.

Lpgrl,

I totally second what you wrote. Absolutely. You have summed it up so well. I too cringe when Rip goes one on one, etc. and ask why do we have to resort to that? Rip is not Kobe nor is he Wade.

It is amazing that we are as good as we are playing almost with a handicap. With Larry, there was a system, like it or not.

I still think we can take it all but the offense is a cause for pause...

TheTDF,

Yes, we are guard-driven and the problem is that the elite teams have shown that they can jam up Billips and Rip. They couldn't do this if we had all five guys involved, if we had motion and if we played the mid-range game.

They will go out on Billips and put there best one on one guy on Rip. They pack in the lane waiting for either to drive into the teeth of the defense and we obliged them. Or we shoot over a hand in the face anyway and the result is low percentage.

Going so far in the playoffs every year allows everyone to scout you. We just have to play smarter and counter.

Don't know about Webber. Have they scouted him out or is he just waiting for the playoffs? We need some steady offense from him.

I suspect this could be a lot of the reason Webber isn't racking up quite as many assists. Teams figure stuff out and the Pistons need to adjust. That will be Flip's test heading into the playoffs - can he get Webber more productive. And we probably won't see those adjustments before the playoffs.

But Lee has good points too, that the pneumonia - yes, that's actually what he had - took something out of Webber and that all in all he has played pretty well the past couple of games.

Still, a lot of those cuts off the Webber high post won't be available come playoff time and the team will need some new wrinkles. And Webber will never be able to guard big mobile centers.



why was it so dark?

I've noticed several games lately that arenas are turning down the lights during play. I wonder if it is because of HD TVs. I've noticed that in HD with all the lights up, it is really tough to watch a game - there is just too much detail in the crowd and it distracts from watching the players.

Lots of detail also means more bandwidth. I am sure that there are sound technological reasons for turning down the detail.

Who posterized Curry the best? Delfino or Tay?
My money would be on Delfino's dunk. Three steps, throws it down, and 1, and then the look at Curry.

Both were great...but the Delfino dunk was the best. Hanging on the rim at the end gave him 150 style points.

Lots of detail also means more bandwidth. I am sure that there are sound technological reasons for turning down the detail.

but it was interesting because i saw highlights, and the NY broadcast of the game was bright...it wasn't the arena like the Staples center does. hrmm. oh well no biggie heh.

Both were great...but the Delfino dunk was the best. Hanging on the rim at the end gave him 150 style points.

Probably could have been a tech, but the one handed spin was definitely stylish.

About the scoring droughts...

Saw only bits of the game, but witnessed the third quarter drought. Part of the problem during that stretch was offensive rebounding. Sheed, Weber, and Tay got us no second shots.

Fourth quarter when we had Davis and Dyess in the game we were getting more multiple opportunities.

When Sheed and CW are in a "I'm not fighting for offensive rebounds" mode, we're more prone to scoring droughts. Flip has got to see this and insert some energy into the lineup.

TheTDF,

Yes, we are guard-driven and the problem is that the elite teams have shown that they can jam up Billips and Rip. They couldn't do this if we had all five guys involved, if we had motion and if we played the mid-range game.

They will go out on Billips and put there best one on one guy on Rip. They pack in the lane waiting for either to drive into the teeth of the defense and we obliged them. Or we shoot over a hand in the face anyway and the result is low percentage.

Going so far in the playoffs every year allows everyone to scout you. We just have to play smarter and counter.
That's when CB starts to slice and dice their D like no other guard in the league. #1 in T/Os not.