I posted this in another forum but couldn't raise a ghost. Tell me what you think.

I personally think the whole dress code issue is a whole lotta something over nothing. I don't see any race issue involved and this my reasoning.

When the kids are coming out'a school and headed for the draft party, when they're looking for their initial payday, number call and team pick-up, they don't dress like AI.

When their names get called by Stern and they head up to the podium to get their first teams cap, they don't dress like AI.

They get that it's a business and they there's a protocol involved. Their families get it. Their friends get it. I don't think there's anyone out in "TV land" saying, they've sold themselves out when they see them in those new suits getting ready to collect that first set of checks.


So if the players understand that presentation counts when they're waiting to be counted, how does it become racism after they're signed and are having the checks electronically dropped in their bank accounts? What changed to make a race issue?

If the same cats aren't dressing like AI on draft day, if they aren't dressing like AI when they're making the rounds in pre-draft workouts, isn't it just a standard "dress to look my best and make a good impression" issue?

It's the same BS argument that wearing chains and whatnot is a sign of "making it" or "status". If you are in the NBA, you have made it. You don't need to dress a particular way to garner respect at the "street" level. If one is worried about "cred", their priorities are seriously jacked up.

It's juvenile to call this rascist, and even more so to persist in fighting a code of dress, conduct, what have you. These guys have jobs, there are standards. If they don't like it, they can always go play And1.

It's the same BS argument that wearing chains and whatnot is a sign of "making it" or "status". If you are in the NBA, you have made it. You don't need to dress a particular way to garner respect at the "street" level. If one is worried about "cred", their priorities are seriously jacked up.

It's juvenile to call this rascist, and even more so to persist in fighting a code of dress, conduct, what have you. These guys have jobs, there are standards. If they don't like it, they can always go play And1.

I agree 100% Micro.

I can't stand racism of any kind, but I also can't stand the "racism" card being played all the time either.

Having a dress code is not racist. Not allowing High Schoolers into the NBA is not racist. These are business decisions. Racism is wrong, but so is calling everything you don't agree with Racism.

Too many lives have been altered or worse, ended, because of racism. That word should be used very carefully and sparingly. It should not be thrown around lightly. It should not be used when you boss tells you that you have to wear dress pants to work.

:amen:

I rest my case.

...although, personally, I will miss the post game pimp parade. Hopefully some of these guys realize that they have enough money to make a huge fashion statement without having to wear a $100,000 chain. (they can wear a $100,000 watch, for example)

...although, personally, I will miss the post game pimp parade. Hopefully some of these guys realize that they have enough money to make a huge fashion statement without having to wear a $100,000 chain. (they can wear a $100,000 watch, for example)

The dress code doesn't bother me either way, just as the players' clothes didn't bother me either way. I don't remember who posted it, but I remember seeing a picture of Rip and Chauncey arriving to a game walking side by side. Chauncey had a nice looking suit on and Rip was wearing won of his Rip City jerseys with a bandana. Both looked "fashionable" to me, just sporting 2 different looks.

I don't have a problem with Sten imposing a dress code and I don't have a problem with the way players curently dress. I do have a problem with the dress code being called racist.

I can empathize with both points of view. Stern wants to cleam up the NBA's image, especially after what happened at the palace last year. The players don't want to all of a sudden be told what to wear as grown men.

In my opinion, a good compromise would be to institute the dress code at formal post game interviews (the ones at the podium, not the ones where the hordes of reporters are talking to the players while their half naked at their lockers), and let the players wear whatever they want rest of the time. On the planes, in the hotels, coming and going from either to the arenas.

Sounds good to me. I think the whole thing is really a non-issue. I agree with the whole racism thing being overblown as well. The other day Drew Sharpe wrote some article about the dress code, and standing up for your beliefs, and Rosa Parks. Unbelievable.

You can't be serious. Have people losted touch with history so much that Rosa Parks is being brought up in a dres code discusion. They players need to get back to the real world if its possible. If I show up to work in a Jersey my boss would send me home because the clients would just laugh at me. As long as I am on the company dime, I do as I am told. Last time I checked, in the NBA it is COMPANY time when the TV is rolling--so theres really nothing the players can do but put on a suit, smile, and cash the check. One of the biggest players I am upset about is Sheed. I know he has always been an individual, so having someone tell him what to do maybe "annoying" (thats about as strong of a word a forced dress code should get), but he is also the guy who said he would "do anything" as long as they CTC. Where CTC = cut the check. So basically, he better learn to tie. Its just hypocritical to have no opinion or pride about some stuff, then get indignant for the same type of thing.

This is a race move plain and simple. You guys don't see it, because you're asking the wrong question. We already understand it's about race, because what they wear doesn't offend African Americans and most young kids. Who does it offend? I rest my case.

The real question is not if it has anything to do with race, because it does. The real question is does it make sense, and the answer to that is of course it does.

Look, I do strange stuff for customers all the time. Some have horrid taste, annoy the hell out of you on a regular basis, and blame you for stuff they do wrong. But the day you tell them to kiss off, is the day you draw your last check.

Their sponsors are almost all mainstream, and the majority of their fans are the same. It's a very small price to pay to collect those massive checks.

But if you missed the racial component of this one, I hope you can catch the next solar eclipse.

Still not buying it.

Your argument is that it's about race because the majority of players in the NBA are black. Because this new rule affects more blacks than whites due to that mix. You're assuming all the white guys are dressing up already? You're assuming all the black guys dress like AI? No blacks are dressing in business casual already?

That's racist thinking in and of itself.

Based on that logic every rule made anywhere has to also be about and directed at whatever the largest class of audience is made up of - rather than the portion of the audience simply deferring to the rule.

The point I made was that if everyone dresses up on the day they're drafted, regardless of their skin color, they are already acknowleding that it matters. That presentation counts and that it's a business. It's a business decision they make when tying that tie before heading up to the podium.

So what changes after that? Crying that the sky is falling and actualy having it fall on your head are two completely different things.

If its your agrument that Stern wants to change the image to sell more tickets is valid, which it is. Then you must feel insulted that he is saying we are all "alchoholics" when he remands that all arenas serve cheap watered down 3.2 beer. He did that to lessen drunken foolishness, creating a less hostile atmosphere for familys so that he could sell more tickets too.

Man I hate that watered down swill.

It's easy to pick on whatever it is that flips your switch and claim you're being discriminated against. But it doesn't mean you are.

I could buy your other argument about who the dressing up or down bothers most if I saw the survey on it. I go to games and the actual majority of fans with butt on pine are of the lighter skin persuasion. They're white. A whole lotta them in the corporate suites. They aren't bothered either way cause the only "suit" they actually witness is shorts, jerseys and ball shoes. I don't see a lessening or changing in the percentage of folk actually paying for the tickets and attending the games.

Everyday when I'm out doing anything work related, I wear work related attire.

Sometimes good business is just good business and bad business is just bad business. It's about the business.

I already posted this in another thread.

When AI said something like the NBA should re-emburse him for clothing expenses they lost me.

I never saw the lack of attendence due to what the players were wearing... it has everything to do with winning basketball games...
Those same corporate stiffs are sitting in their court side seats high fiving every improperly dressed cat that is willing to pay attention to them.

Just win baby... the seats will fill and the sponsors will get their share.

You mean there's different colored players?... damn... I'll have to start paying more attention next time.

NBA players being forced to conform to a dress code is a non issue? How do you think Afghan women feel about having to wear Burkas to cover themselves up? And isn't it the same for NBA players to have to cover up their true identities with suits and ties?

Once you head down this slippery slope, it's just a matter of time before Burkas become standard apparel in America and we are under the rule of zealots! Take a stand now before we head down that slippery slope.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38351000/jpg/_38351747_veil_150.jpg

Sam just likes to stir the pot. He needs to work harder at it because these attempts are weak.

The race issue is definetily there if you buy into the belief that Blacks like to wear jerseys and white people think jerseys have connotations of drugs and "ghetto" behavior. Is this true? maybe to a point. On the other hand, I believe the issue boils down to personal definition of what is acceptable levels of formality in dress and what situations these formalities need to be met. I think that it is generally accepted, no, I know it is accepted that ALL races know that a suit and tie represents the highest form of formal wear and a jersey somewhere in the wide realm of casual attire. Look at the draft, hall of fame presentations, weddings, etc. Did Sheed/AI get married in a Rip City Jersey? No, because their mothers would have strangled them. They knew as BLACK men that a wedding is a situation that demands formal attire. Therefore, the question becomes is NBA postgame activities a situation that needs formal attire? This is the only area of question. My personal opinion is that it sholdn't matter, and can be left to open determination, but I am not CTC. I think your problem is that Stern is making the Black men wear suits to appeal to White America who is watching the games. Obviously, nothing I say will make it a clear cut yes or no, but I think Stern is just trying to make the NBA appear more respectable--like a billion dollar CORPORATION should be. All he is trying to do is bridge the gap between normal corporation--the World he has to deal with as "CEO"--and street pick-up game with a 80 million dollar hustle--the World AI has to deal with. With all the money involved, I think the NBA-players included--need to start treating their "game" more as a profession than a pasttime.

NBA players being forced to conform to a dress code is a non issue? How do you think Afghan women feel about having to wear Burkas to cover themselves up? And isn't it the same for NBA players to have to cover up their true identities with suits and ties?

Once you head down this slippery slope, it's just a matter of time before Burkas become standard apparel in America and we are under the rule of zealots! Take a stand now before we head down that slippery slope.


Yeah, that's exactly the same thing.

While we're at it, we should boycott McDonalds, Burger King, UPS, all banks, lawyer, all sports teams (uniforms are a dress code after all), the police, EMS, the fire department, judges, doctors, Walmart (I think Saddam himself designed those blue vests), grocery stores, etc. etc. etc.

Your "point" is rediculous and insensative.

Funny, last year on TNT I watched Kenny and Charles argue about the way players dress after John T interviewed AI.
Charles absolutely did not like the way players dress preferences had a negative effect on the kids watching.
Kenny argued some BS about it being a new day in the hip hop era and that you can make it in this world wearing Phat Farm and Roc-A-Wear exclusively, " I Mean look at Russell Simmons and Dame Dash"
Man I hit the roof, thinking Kenny has said one of the dumbest things I ever heard.
In the world of movers and shakers you need to dress the part and look the part, the only exception is Sports and Entertainment, but only a few in a million beat those odds. As a black man who runs hoop clinics in neighborhoods all summer you try to stress to these kids that while they may love sports, GET AN EDUCATION, while they like rap music GET AN EDUCATION. For those of us that actually make it in this world by going and getting 100+ credit hours, interviewing, networking etc, we had to DRESS the part. In the real world you need to DRESS in business attire and the NBA was indeed doing it's part in trying to sway a mass of impressionable people from thinking in realistic terms. I swear I can't stand when you have relative die or get married and you have those cousins that spend a ton on jewelry, sneakers and throw back jersey's but don't own a decent suit to wear when they lay their grandmother to rest.

I personally would love to see this whole country back to wearing a more polished line of dress attire, heck man I'm sick of seeing wrinkled khakis and too tight polo shirts in the office.

Funny, last year on TNT I watched Kenny and Charles argue about the way players dress after John T interviewed AI.
Charles absolutely did not like the way players dress preferences had a negative effect on the kids watching.
Kenny argued some BS about it being a new day in the hip hop era and that you can make it in this world wearing Phat Farm and Roc-A-Wear exclusively, " I Mean look at Russell Simmons and Dame Dash"
Man I hit the roof, thinking Kenny has said one of the dumbest things I ever heard.
In the world of movers and shakers you need to dress the part and look the part, the only exception is Sports and Entertainment, but only a few in a million beat those odds. As a black man who runs hoop clinics in neighborhoods all summer you try to stress to these kids that while they may love sports, GET AN EDUCATION, while they like rap music GET AN EDUCATION. For those of us that actually make it in this world by going and getting 100+ credit hours, interviewing, networking etc, we had to DRESS the part. In the real world you need to DRESS in business attire and the NBA was indeed doing it's part in trying to sway a mass of impressionable people from thinking in realistic terms. I swear I can't stand when you have relative die or get married and you have those cousins that spend a ton on jewelry, sneakers and throw back jersey's but don't own a decent suit to wear when they lay their grandmother to rest.

I personally would love to see this whole country back to wearing a more polished line of dress attire, heck man I'm sick of seeing wrinkled khakis and too tight polo shirts in the office.

Excellent post. Couldn't agree with you more.

Jammer,

basketbills is the resident satirist. He could be in the Air Farce Troupe.

Take 80% of what he says with a dose of irony.

Ok Micro that was a bit over the top?

Here is what I wrote in the other forum. I understand KGreg's point...he likes to see folks dress nicely. Well that's fine but I don't want to dress to have to impress anyone if I don't have to and NBA players don't have to...

.... just because you are an easily replaced corporate Dweeb doesn't mean you should assume NBA players are the same. These players are the best in the world at what they do and if they made a stand David Stern would do away with the dress code. The players have the power not David Stern. So why don't a few of them stand up against this stupid dress code??

Stand up for your own identity. If you are forced to act a certain way and conform to the Dilbert restrictions your company sets forth...you can't react because you'd lose your job. NBA players aren't low life losers who cotton to the whims of others like you are apparently. Stupid rule.

And this was in response to a guy at the other forum who was making some racially insensitive remarks, so take it with a grain of salt.

Bills I hear ya, wear what you wanna wear, cool. I don't like corporate conforming, brown nose, arse kissers that tyr and dress their way to the top with a fake smile or in the case of the ladies...sexy legs and short skirts. By no means do I feel like corporate norms should be allowed to dictate anyway of life. My point is to illustrate that this era is on some new stuff if ever. There's nothing wrong with being comfortable, but it's leaving a whole group of people in a world where they don't even know how to tie a TIE.

The NBA is basically full of 20 sumthin year old brotha's that impact the trends in mainstream culture, why not use that power effectively. This is a chance for them to step up and look professional, presentable and respectable and show others that are their age and from their old neighborhoods a new way to move and groove in life, just like Jay-Z did by getting a whole mass of folk in the hood to throw out the throw backs and sport a button up french cuff shirt (even though very few of them actually button up the shirts).

Being young and black you have a mountain of stereotypes thrown upon you and ALWAYS looking like you just stepped off of a rap video shoot NEVER helps your case.

This whole issue is much a-do about nothing!:mad:

I say let the players wear whatever they want. Last time I checked the mandatory dress code was gym shoes, socks, shorts and a jersey with a number on it. That's what they wear when "on the job." Let GM's insitute an "inactive dress code" for their individual club if they feel their team's image needs a boost. But most of them know that dressed up inactive players contribute ziltch to a team's image.

And what the hell is "proper attire" while watching a basketball game anyway? How many fans (if they ain't runnin late) go to the game dressed "business casual?" Much less in a suite and tie! What about cameramen? Each player has their own standards of dress whether someone else likes it or not. So what! If that player's momma don't mind seein him dressed "hip-hop" so what? It's all about home training.

This sounds like either Stern is on a power trip or he ain't got enough to keep busy. How about beefin up security against a possible terrorist attack, bomb threats and such? How about disciplinary action against refs who can't see straight? How about enforcing standard rules against the Shaqs of the league? How about lowerin prices at the concession stand or coming up with a way to ease traffic congestion? Somebody needs to tell this cat that there are bigger fish to fry.

I agree with AI. Dam what a player's salary is.....pay for what you mandate! Otherwise put that language in the player's contract.

And this ain't about race either. The only reason that subject came up is because some dumb-azz, pissed off player shot his mouth off cause he could think of nothing else to say. Then the hyper-sensitive media ran with it. It ain't about race! It's about power projection of the misguided idle.

I hope the players defy this mandate just for GP. Fight a possible fine with a class action suit. I could care less about what an inactive player is wearin as long as he ain't buck naked. He can hardly be distinguished from Joe Blow sittin courside anyway. I care more about what's happenin on the floor!

What next....no braids? No tattos? Give me a break!

When it is all said and done, I think this will go away quite quickly.

First, most players wear a suit anyways so no change. For the others, in all honestly do they really care? they already made it so are too busy spending the money.

GMan, you missed my argument totally, his is basic logic, just follow the deduction to a conclusion.

1. They only want a change to what? African garb, Indian Garb? No, to White American Garb, something blessed by one group in this country.

2. If the NBA was mostly white, there wouldn't be a dress code. Proof? Ever visit Bill Gates(well, he does wear suits more often these days), or Michael Dell, or just about any corporation these days, and you'll see a lot of jeans. Special occasions dress, going to work... please.

3. Finally, did they take a poll of any other business owners, or just the major corporate sponsors? What color were they?

You're right, it is all about business, but not for the reasons you speculate. The demand to wear certain closes is about race, the reason to follow it is about business.

Micro: I'm not trying to stir things up, it's called having another opinion, and what's weak is responding with one liners that don't address any of the comments.

That's the best argument I've seen against the dress code and in my opinion 100 per cent dead accurate. I think the issue is a lot more significant than people are making it out to be.

The thing that irks me is that the players are going to swallow it and not make a stand against it. These aren't a lot of powerless Dilberts like most of us. Someone make a stand and be willing to take the flak.

GMan, you missed my argument totally, his is basic logic, just follow the deduction to a conclusion.

1. They only want a change to what? African garb, Indian Garb? No, to White American Garb, something blessed by one group in this country.

2. If the NBA was mostly white, there wouldn't be a dress code. Proof? Ever visit Bill Gates(well, he does wear suits more often these days), or Michael Dell, or just about any corporation these days, and you'll see a lot of jeans. Special occasions dress, going to work... please.

3. Finally, did they take a poll of any other business owners, or just the major corporate sponsors? What color were they?

You're right, it is all about business, but not for the reasons you speculate. The demand to wear certain closes is about race, the reason to follow it is about business.

Micro: I'm not trying to stir things up, it's called having another opinion, and what's weak is responding with one liners that don't address any of the comments.

I would have to agree.

The look the NBA is trying to get away from is one that is associated with African Americans. The issue is that the "casual" way that these athletes dress is being associated with criminal behavior. I doubt seriously that this rule was created with the Steve Nashs and Tim Duncans of the world who dress less polished and more relaxed. You can see it in the details, "no headphones, jewlery, etc...") Who makes a dress code where you cannot wear jewlery. lol! The question that needs to be asked is just who is finding this look to be offensive. I would suggest that the ones who are threatened by this look are the same ones who feel uncomfortable and frantically search to insure that their possessions are secure when an African American male enters into an elevator with them at night. They are also the ones that get a pit in their stomach when a group of young African American males passes them by on the street. Financial rational? I don't see it. The NBA makes alot of money off its look. Throwback jerseys are a tremendous source of revenue and alot of this can be attributed to the African American athlete.

"The demand to wear certain closes is about race, the reason to follow it is about business."

You could not have stated that any better. Except I think ultimately it will be bad business. African Americans spend more discretionary income than any cultural group in the United States. The auto industry has caught on to this statistic. Have you watched any car ads lately?

So yes, the NBA has the right to make their employees wear whatever they feel appropriate. And they should comply, or leave. Their choice. Make no mistake about it though, this rule is driven by a perception that has roots to ignorance.

From SA Express News during Q&A with Sterns:

Q. Tim Duncan embodies all that is good about the NBA — work ethic, honesty, sportsmanship, citizenship, team play. How much did it hurt acceptance of your new dress code when he called it, quote-unquote, a load of crap?

A. "I would say everyone is entitled to their reaction. Hopefully, on more considered thought they would understand that as we try to grow our business to even higher places than it is now, a collared shirt, a pair of jeans and a pair of shoes is not setting the bar impossibly high. But we're the NBA, so everyone has an opinion and entitled to express it, and because we're the NBA, opinions resonate more in society because we deal in issues that are bigger than we are.
"It's clear this whole subject matter has struck a chord that is so much bigger than the NBA. It is more profound than I thought it was. When you toss in race, where commentators want to make it a racial issue, it shows the NBA is the medium through which all kinds of conversations get launched and occur, which is great.
"And maybe Tim is right. I'm closer to agreeing with him in terms of the necessity for it; in terms of my having to spend time on it. But we're stuck with it and he's stuck with me, but it doesn't mean he isn't still the best player on the planet, because I think he still is."

Tim did wear a sports jacket during post game, but took it off and put in locker when interviews over (think he will just keep it in locker for season):nod:

GMan, you missed my argument totally, his is basic logic, just follow the deduction to a conclusion.

1. They only want a change to what? African garb, Indian Garb? No, to White American Garb, something blessed by one group in this country.

2. If the NBA was mostly white, there wouldn't be a dress code. Proof? Ever visit Bill Gates(well, he does wear suits more often these days), or Michael Dell, or just about any corporation these days, and you'll see a lot of jeans. Special occasions dress, going to work... please.

3. Finally, did they take a poll of any other business owners, or just the major corporate sponsors? What color were they?

You're right, it is all about business, but not for the reasons you speculate. The demand to wear certain closes is about race, the reason to follow it is about business.

Micro: I'm not trying to stir things up, it's called having another opinion, and what's weak is responding with one liners that don't address any of the comments.
Here is your address.

Why does colour matter? By taking the stance you have, you are making a broad sweeping generalization that all people of a certain colour dress the same way. That in itself is discriminatory.

Could you define white american garb? Do you really feel educated enough on how athletes in Africa and India dress to make statements like that? I know for fact that rugby and cricket teams from the african continent wear suit and tie to and from each game. Even in the poorest of countries. The same in India. It's some form of reverse discrimation for you to imply that they jump into some antiquated traditional garb for the cab ride home.

If the NBA were white.... Well the NHL is predominantly white and they wear suit and tie to and from games. The NFL and MLB have an informal dress code that players adhere to. Both sports are very diverse with regards to the racial and cultural makeup of their players.

What the heck is a special occassion? Wouldn't game night be a special occassion? Basketball is entertainment. It's also a business. When you have to make a presentation or represent your business to the customer, isn't that the time to get "gussied up"? No one is mandating how they dress to and from practice, but public appearances representing not only themselves, but their owners, their league etc should have a higher standard. I want to introduce you to a new word. CONTEXT. Look it up.

Lastly, why should the NBA poll business owners or sponsors? When was the last time anyone had to gain concensus to implement strategy? David Stern sells talent and entertainment. He decides where they play, when they play and how they play. That's his right as the commissioner of the league (aka the representative of the owners).

It's also his right to demand certain standards from his employees. Particularly when the NBA more so than any other sport has had a negative impression built up over the last several years with the Sprewell choking on up to the Palace Brawl. He's protecting his immediate business interests and fulfilling his mandate.

You know who makes this a colour issue? The people who have flaunted professionalism, made the news by tossing their girlfriends out of the house in the middle of the night, attacked fans, attacked fellow players etc.

It's a small group of players who took a lack of standards to the limit and now are flopping and whining like 3 year olds at Toys R Us.

It's been said before, and I like it. You got a problem with the dress code? Pay the fines. Sit out. Make a statement. Prove that you stand behind your convictions. Be like other great civil rights leaders. Give up your paycheck and stand up for your "race". Refuse to work for a discriminatory league.

Any player who claims rascism and then still collects his check is a hypocrite and diminshes the struggles of people who have fought real and costly personal battles for basic human rights. Someone said it best. These players will wear a suit and tie when they are drafted and approach the podium to shake the commisioners hand. It wasn't rascist to wear a suit then, and it isn't rascist to wear a suit or sport jacket now.

The argument that throwback jerseys, hats, and chains are somehow exclusive to african americans doesn't hold much water for me. If you have a few spare minutes, jump in you car, and drive up Van Dyke ave from Jefferson. Down by the river and the west/indian village, you are very likely to see many african americans dressed either in suits, or in buisness casual. Keep going north. As you pass Kettering high school, the predominant attire is throwback jerseys, hats, and knockoff bling. Keep driving. Cross into Warren. Factory workers are wearing blue jeans, dickies, and blue work shirts. White kids are wearing throwback jerseys, Hats turned sideways, and knockoff bling.

If millionaire african american athletes want to dress like children, thats cool with me. If the boss wants them to dress like adults, thats cool with me too.

I am just not buying the race argument. Sorry. How many middle age african americans in this forum wear throwback jerseys and sideways hats? how many white teenagers in this forum sag their pants?

It's been said before, and I like it. You got a problem with the dress code? Pay the fines. Sit out. Make a statement. Prove that you stand behind your convictions. Be like other great civil rights leaders. Give up your paycheck and stand up for your "race". Refuse to work for a discriminatory league.

Any player who claims rascism and then still collects his check is a hypocrite and diminshes the struggles of people who have fought real and costly personal battles for basic human rights. Someone said it best. These players will wear a suit and tie when they are drafted and approach the podium to shake the commisioners hand. It wasn't rascist to wear a suit then, and it isn't rascist to wear a suit or sport jacket now.

Great points, Micro. I can definitely agree with your opinion...especially as it pertains to "put up or shut up". But....it is painfully obvious in my opinion that some of the details surrounding this dress code directly target the African American athlete. I think the league overshot a bit with its detailed list of do's and don'ts and as a result what is driving this dress code has caused suspicion.

I think Hip Hop and NBA Basketball have been comingled for the past 10 years and what we are seeing is an obvious attempt to weaken that connection. I would argue that the Street ball influenced, strong hip hop beats playing in the background, high flying moves basketball image that has evolved is one that has made the NBA alot of money. It has also broaden the NBAs appeal accross the world. Basketball is by far considered the most "Hip" sport on the map. Elite basketball players as compared to any other professional athletes have become established celebs and pop icons. And to be quite frank...I like what basketball has evolved into. It's entertaining.

I think that rather than Stern attacking an image that has helped the league boost to new levels in popularity he should be embracing it. Basketball has always had a strong link to American culture. Picture Bill Walton with his Greatful Dead T-Shirts. Dr. J. with his afro. Thank God he wasn't forced to shave that off because it was deemed intimidating or offensive.

I agree with the NBAs right to implement any type of mandate for a uniform they deem neccessary. It is about making money after all, but I think the NBA...

is making a decision that could have negative financial implications in the future
insulting a culture by attacking a "look" that has made them alot of money
oblivious to the unique product they have created by allowing creative expression
relunctant to accept that this negative impression they have of this "targeted look" is one based on racial ignorance

The argument that throwback jerseys, hats, and chains are somehow exclusive to african americans doesn't hold much water for me.

It really isn't exclusive to African Americans, but its very obvious where it comes from and what race most people identify with the look. Yep, Hip Hop culture has invaded the entire world. It is not abnormal to see the youth in Japan dressed like todays rappers and professional basketball players. Its a huge money making business.

Oh, and to answer your question. I actually know alot of middleaged African American men who wear throwback Jerseys with sideways caps. :) The baggy pants thing though...nope. :)

But....it is painfully obvious in my opinion that some of the details surrounding this dress code directly target the African American athlete. I think the league overshot a bit with its detailed list of do's and don'ts and as a result what is driving this dress code has caused suspicion.
Why can’t you see
What you’re doing to me
When you don’t believe a word I say?
We can’t go on together
With suspicious minds
And we can’t build our dreams
On suspicious minds

I think Hip Hop and NBA Basketball have been comingled for the past 10 years and what we are seeing is an obvious attempt to weaken that connection. I would argue that the Street ball influenced, strong hip hop beats playing in the background, high flying moves basketball image that has evolved is one that has made the NBA alot of money. It has also broaden the NBAs appeal accross the world. Basketball is by far considered the most "Hip" sport on the map. Elite basketball players as compared to any other professional athletes have become established celebs and pop icons. And to be quite frank...I like what basketball has evolved into. It's entertaining.
Do you really believe that fans will stop watching Dwyane Wade or Yao Ming because they have to wear sport coats on the sidelines or entering the arena? Will that alienate you as a fan? I watch basketball for what they do on the court first and foremost. I don't think sports coats will make the NBA Finals any less entertaining.

I think that rather than Stern attacking an image that has helped the league boost to new levels in popularity he should be embracing it. Basketball has always had a strong link to American culture. Picture Bill Walton with his Greatful Dead T-Shirts. Dr. J. with his afro. Thank God he wasn't forced to shave that off because it was deemed intimidating or offensive.
I don't think Stern is attacking anything. I think that he is making a smart business move on many levels. The players want to contest the dress code in the next CBA? They'll have to give something back. Advantage Stern. He wants to make the league a little more professional in appearance and require the players to treat it like a job? I don't see a problem with that, it is a job. What happened in the past was a different time. And many of those ols school stars wore suits and ties, dressed up without having to be told that looking good is classy.

I agree with the NBAs right to implement any type of mandate for a uniform they deem neccessary. It is about making money after all, but I think the NBA

*is making a decision that could have negative financial implications in the future
*insulting a culture by attacking a "look" that has made them alot of money
*oblivious to the unique product they have created by allowing creative expression
*relunctant to accept that this negative impression they have of this "targeted look" is one based on racial ignorance
The problem is that Stern had to react to the impression that the NBA has unchecked creativity. Creativity ON THE COURT sells tickets and promotes the game. Creative lifestyles and fashion are sidebars. Honestly, how many people are checking out who is wearing what shoes when Ben blocks a shot into the crowd? Or when AI breaks his man down and scores helter skelter on a layup?

No culture is being attacked, and certainly no race. Something most people do not know is that each team could already set it's own guidelines for dress. All Stern did was create a league wide standard. Atlanta already had plans to implement a stricter dress code than the league mandated. And that was driven by their BLACK coach Mike Woodson.

I've been on the receiving end of a fair share of rascism in my life. It had to do with people being ignorant of my culture and heritage, not the way I dressed. I'm secure enough in who I am not to worry about dressing like a white man, or listening to music made by black men. I don't need to dress a certain way to have cultural identity. I don't need to speak or act a certain way to have cultural credibility. Who I am is what my culture is.

Chauncey Billups is one of the slickest and snazziest dressers in the NBA. Does that mean he is rejecting his culture? No. He's just got an acute sense of fashion and a desire to put out a positive and successful self image. Chauncey isn't worried that wearing a suit will make him less black. Why should anyone else?

You know what I think is ignorant? That you have to dress a certain way to have racial identity. A black man in a pink tutu is still a black man. Maybe a little fruity, but he's still a brother. And no matter what music or clothes I buy I will never be able to change my race.

Do you really believe that fans will stop watching Dwyane Wade or Yao Ming because they have to wear sport coats on the sidelines or entering the arena? Will that alienate you as a fan? I watch basketball for what they do on the court first and foremost. I don't think sports coats will make the NBA Finals any less entertaining.

Nah, I think the game is strong enough to survive on its own merits. I just believe that merchandising might be adversly affected.


I don't think Stern is attacking anything. I think that he is making a smart business move on many levels. The players want to contest the dress code in the next CBA? They'll have to give something back. Advantage Stern. He wants to make the league a little more professional in appearance and require the players to treat it like a job? I don't see a problem with that, it is a job. What happened in the past was a different time. And many of those ols school stars wore suits and ties, dressed up without having to be told that looking good is classy.

The CBA point is a valid one and makes alot of since. This is a different time, but there is no doubt in my mind that the "look" which Stern's dress code details is one that is associated with the average Hip Hop star. And that look has been perceived as menacing or threatning. Again, if everyone in the league dressed modestly like Steve Nash or Tim Duncan would we be talking about a dress code?


The problem is that Stern had to react to the impression that the NBA has unchecked creativity. Creativity ON THE COURT sells tickets and promotes the game. Creative lifestyles and fashion are sidebars. Honestly, how many people are checking out who is wearing what shoes when Ben blocks a shot into the crowd? Or when AI breaks his man down and scores helter skelter on a layup?

Personally, I don't but if noone checked out what AI was wearing would he have an exculusive contract with Reebok? Obviously some people care. Besides, I don't think the Hip Hop element really plays a part until the fans see footage of the players entering the building or post game interviews....except as it pertains to basketball shorts. Thank the Fab 5 for that. We could still be in a league where everyone looks like John Stockton. :) All that being said, I still have not seen a case where monitering "unchecked creativity" in the NBA is warranted. What about these athletes is offensive as it pertains to dress? How is AI's clothing hurting anyone or the game? In the business sector that I work at in Florida which is a contrast to the companies in Michigan (as I remember), the standard dress code is business casual. The arguement for what is considered "business like" is an ongoing discussion in itself. NBA players use music to calm themselves and get mentally prepared for the game. Should this be sacrificed (usage of headphones) because someone likes ties? I just don't see the logical arguement here.


No culture is being attacked, and certainly no race. Something most people do not know is that each team could already set it's own guidelines for dress. All Stern did was create a league wide standard. Atlanta already had plans to implement a stricter dress code than the league mandated. And that was driven by their BLACK coach Mike Woodson.

Obviously African Americans come in all shades, colors and opinions. That isn't the point. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you though. I think a specific culture is being attacked. It's in the details. Exceptions: "Chains, pendants, or medallions worn over the player's clothes", "Sunglasses while indoors", "Headphones"... If I didn't know any better I'd think I was reading a Saturday Night Live skit. :)


I've been on the receiving end of a fair share of rascism in my life. It had to do with people being ignorant of my culture and heritage, not the way I dressed. I'm secure enough in who I am not to worry about dressing like a white man, or listening to music made by black men. I don't need to dress a certain way to have cultural identity. I don't need to speak or act a certain way to have cultural credibility. Who I am is what my culture is.

Chauncey Billups is one of the slickest and snazziest dressers in the NBA. Does that mean he is rejecting his culture? No. He's just got an acute sense of fashion and a desire to put out a positive and successful self image. Chauncey isn't worried that wearing a suit will make him less black. Why should anyone else?

You know what I think is ignorant? That you have to dress a certain way to have racial identity. A black man in a pink tutu is still a black man. Maybe a little fruity, but he's still a brother. And no matter what music or clothes I buy I will never be able to change my race.

We are defintely in agreement here. If you couldn't tell...I'm black. lol! And I am far from the stereotypical one depicted by the mainstream. I have encountered many different types of racism myself stemmed by ignorance in my life and I have never been one to try to pigeon hole someone or a race in a short description. Diversity is a beautiful thing and exists within our culture as well as with every other person on this planet. I am simply stating that the young african american male has a popular face. That face has ties into hiphop and is obviously pronounced enough where Stern felt it garnered some attention. He wants to eliminate that face in professional basketball, but how does he feel that helps his product?