This should be a great series.

I think it would be safe to say the winner of this series and the winner of the Pistons/Bulls series should meet in the Finals.

If that`s the case I would say a Spurs/Pistons Finals.

In game 1 at the half the Suns are up by two...........

The Suns trainer sucks. He can't stop Nash's nose from bleeding and it might cost the Suns the game.

They just need to shut Nash down and fire the trainer. His face looks worse and worse the more they work on him. What a joke.

The Suns trainer sucks. He can't stop Nash's nose from bleeding and it might cost the Suns the game.

Arnie would have slapped some mango extract or something on that thing and the blood would have stopped immediately.....

Parker has a hard head, he was dazed momentarily though. Perhaps, look for a Rip Hamilton mask for Nash now, I wouldn`t be surprised if his nose is broken.

This is one intense game! Seesaw battle for the whole 4th quarter.

Could even Arnie Kander stop that bleeding? It almost looks like those blood geysers gushing in samurai movies when someone gets his limb hacked off.

Parker kind of flopped there to draw the off-the-ball foul. Big call. Barbosa's kind of an idiot, though, for that previous foul on Manu, although it didn't hurt them too badly because he bricked one of them.

Wow...Manu missed another one, but Amare blew a 2-footer!

Bob Delaney is a bonafide crook. His ability to no call Phoenix is becoming the stuff of legend.

You thought Amare got hacked there? Didn't look like it to me.

Wow.

What a game. How ironic it might be that Parkers head to the nose of Nash might determine the winner of this series!

You thought Amare got hacked there? Didn't look like it to me.

They would never call that.....

What a finish! Nash couldn't stop bleeding for a little while. And the Spurs take game 1.

D`Antoni is HOT!!!!!!!!1:pout: :flame: :yell: :mad2: :yuck: :censored:

How about Mr. Eva, 14-22 from the floor. Pretty clutch.

I watched Delaney screw the Suns all game.

For all the talk about how good Nash's teammates are, it seems from the box score that Amare was the only one who really contributed anything above normal production with his 18 boards. Every other Suns player played at or below expectations, and consequently the Suns forfeited the home court advantage right off the bat.

And on the other side of the ball Finley and Big Shot Brob step up big in support of Duncan and Parker.

I'll be waiting to see replays on nba.com of the bloddy nose...

I can't stand PHX, I hate everything about the way they play. I hate their offense, I hate their lack of defense, I hate how the league is trying to push this "new NBA" style down our throats.

Give me a good old fashioned 64-62 Pistons-Pacers playoff game anytime of the week. A game where possessions mean something and only the toughest survive.

PHX for all the love they get, just had SA (a supposedly boring team) walk into their HOMECOURT and beat them at their own game. SA did it to them in 2005 and will do it again this year. PHX is getting outplayed at their own game in their own gym and I couldn't love it more.

D'Antoni is one of the biggest crybaby whiners I've ever seen, if He were Sheed he would have racked up suspensions by the 2nd week of the regular season. The guy is a freaking lunatic.

Great game by the SPURS, way to show their CHAMPIONSHIP EXPERIENCE, something the "gimmick" SUNS will NEVER HAVE.

GO SPURS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed Jack. Suns are smoke & mirrors with Stern's reflection. I'm rooting SA all the way to the finals.

Maybe a bit premature, but I'm hoping for a Pistons-Spurs rematch.

Agreed Jack. Suns are smoke & mirrors with Stern's reflection. I'm rooting SA all the way to the finals.

Maybe a bit premature, but I'm hoping for a Pistons-Spurs rematch.

That year, those were my two favorite teams and I'm a HUGE TD fan. I just don't get the whole "boring" superstar stuff. He plays in whatever manner will help his team win, why is that boring? If he gets doubled and triple teammed he is UNSELFISH enough to pass out of it. (so many others aren't nowadays)

I just love the way that Duncan plays and other than Bowen there isn't anyone on that team that I just despise.

With the trade of Darko to Orlando, My favorite teams are now PISTONS, MAGIC and then SPURS.

Darko and Duncan are definately my favorites outside of Detroit.

Tim sucks. He's great, but boring as all get out.

I don't want to see the Spurs in the Finals because Pop is a better coach than Flip (experience) and my heart can no longer handle 80 to 78 games over the course of an entire 7 game series.

Tim sucks. He's great, but boring as all get out.

I don't want to see the Spurs in the Finals because Pop is a better coach than Flip (experience) and my heart can no longer handle 80 to 78 games over the course of an entire 7 game series.

Could you please explain that Roscoe?

I hear it all the time, I see that the Spurs or Pistons are just boring from most casual NBA fans. Why does everyone think that way?

Spurs play great D. Tim Duncan is a FANTASTIC LOWPOST/HIGHPOST player. He can run, he can defend, he can score, he can pass, he blocks shots, he is solid in most every aspect of the game. He's a bit weak at the FT line, but what player has ZERO weaknesses? I love how he is willing to be the man when his team needs it or when he can step back and let Parker or Manu or Finley be that guy if a matchup dictates it. He seems to step aside with NO EGO, why is there such a disdain for the best PF of all time? The guy is the ultimate pro and a clear HOFer. He isn't obnoxious and plays hard and hurt through almost everything. I just don't see a reason to call him boring. HELP ME UNDERSTAND !!!!

I'm also surprised that Roscoe appears to be on the "Duncan is boring" bandwagon. I thought we appreciated guys who "play the right way" around here. If Duncan is boring, then what's exciting? Watching Lebron get away with pushing off and travelling?

Whoa! Slow down on "the best PF of all time". I think James Worthy and Kevin McHale are due some respect there.

Not to mention Tom Heinshon and Moses Malone (amongst others).

I can explain my disdain for Tim quite easily. He's a center in length, but has been able to play forward for most of his career, because of the dearth of quality 5s in this league. His height and length make him a mismatch for 80% of the PFs in the league.

And the notion that he is a money player is much overblown. Yes, the Spurs will go to him when they need a basket, but with shooters like Ginobili, Horry and Kerr, Tim rarely makes the shot that breaks another team's back.

Put it this way. Roscoe sounds like a bad boy. Mr. Big Shot implies danger. Big Shot Rob is the guy who is getting the ball. His Airness defies gravity.

The Big Fundamental implies a guy who has mastered the layup drill.

I'll be honest. I'm no casual fan, but I enjoy watching a game, not a battle of submission holds. The Spurs are very efficient, but so is wearing a clean pair of shorts. Sometimes, when I am indulging in sports fantasy, I want to go commando.

That is why I enjoyed the Warriors series so much. You didn't want to miss any of it, because every moment was filled with surprise. With the Spurs, you can skip a quarter and it will be the same thing you have seen 500 times before.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm also surprised that Roscoe appears to be on the "Duncan is boring" bandwagon. I thought we appreciated guys who "play the right way" around here. If Duncan is boring, then what's exciting? Watching Lebron get away with pushing off and travelling?
In game drama. A player who smiles AND frowns. Not just a guy who is monotone in his appearance and delivery.

I respect what Tim can do on the court, but given the choice of watching almost anyone else play, I would rather not watch the Spurs. There is no excitement or thrill to their games for me.

It doesn't have to be as extreme as having a sneaker fetish and man-crush on LBJ.

Tim is substance. LBJ is style. I prefer both attributes. Iverson thrills me in ways that neither of those guys can. The same with Ben Wallace, Steve Nash, and Kobe.

This is sports entertainment. If I want to get hung up on the purity of the game, I would follow NCAA hoops.

Whoa! Slow down on "the best PF of all time". I think James Worthy and Kevin McHale are due some respect there.

Not to mention Tom Heinshon and Moses Malone (amongst others).

I can explain my disdain for Tim quite easily. He's a center in length, but has been able to play forward for most of his career, because of the dearth of quality 5s in this league. His height and length make him a mismatch for 80% of the PFs in the league.

And the notion that he is a money player is much overblown. Yes, the Spurs will go to him when they need a basket, but with shooters like Ginobili, Horry and Kerr, Tim rarely makes the shot that breaks another team's back.

Put it this way. Roscoe sounds like a bad boy. Mr. Big Shot implies danger. Big Shot Rob is the guy who is getting the ball. His Airness defies gravity.

The Big Fundamental implies a guy who has mastered the layup drill.

I'll be honest. I'm no casual fan, but I enjoy watching a game, not a battle of submission holds. The Spurs are very efficient, but so is wearing a clean pair of shorts. Sometimes, when I am indulging in sports fantasy, I want to go commando.

That is why I enjoyed the Warriors series so much. You didn't want to miss any of it, because every moment was filled with surprise. With the Spurs, you can skip a quarter and it will be the same thing you have seen 500 times before.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom Heinshon???.........:confused:

Btw, all due respect to BSA who I like very much.

I'm just tired of liking the Spurs because it is the right thing to do, not what I want to do.

Besides, if we play these guys, I'm seriously going to be hoping they get a team epidemic of digestive problems from bad tamales. :D

Btw, all due respect to BSA who I like very much.

I'm just tired of liking the Spurs because it is the right thing to do, not what I want to do.

Besides, if we play these guys, I'm seriously going to be hoping they get a team epidemic of digestive problems from bad tamales. :D

Personally, from an entertainment standpoint, I would like to see the Pistons vs. The Jazz in the finals.

Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant are the only players in today's NBA I could watch all day and night.

Some players have greater physical gifts, but none of them has the command of the game those two have, the technical mastery, the ability to find the proper angles on both ends of the floor, solve any defense, break apart an offense's continuity. Yes, Tim can't shoot free throws and Kobe's limited by his arrogance, but those flaws are a lot less unwatchable than a Shaq or LeBron's sheer laziness.

I can see how his lack of charisma can be less than exhilarating, but no emotional outburst from a player is as satisfying as the frustrated misery of an opponent who has not just been beaten but completely confused and humiliated.

Come on, 'scoe; somebody with the anecdote you have in your signature should be able to understand the value of playing smart. Cheap thrills are well and good, but sadism is pleasurable on a completely different level.

Come on, 'scoe; somebody with the anecdote you have in your signature should be able to understand the value of playing smart. Cheap thrills are well and good, but sadism is pleasurable on a completely different level.
I knew you would be along to put me in my place! :)

When it comes to competitive endeavours, I absolutely love sadism. How many people do you know who keep a copy of Sun Tzu's Art of War in their bathroom library?

But seriously, there is no fun for me in watching the Spurs. They are simply too good, too organized, too disciplined and too commanding in their execution to derive any pleasure from.

The Pistons on the other hand are a collection of wildcards. Will Tayshaun emerge? Will Billups jack up a lot of bad shots? Will Rasheed get ejected?

Now that is something I do not want to miss on TV. :thumb:

Whoa! Slow down on "the best PF of all time". I think James Worthy and Kevin McHale are due some respect there.

Not to mention Tom Heinshon, Gar Heard and Moses Malone (amongst others).





I have to agree that Duncan is a player I just don't enjoy watching. And best PF of all time is a stretch.

Btw, all due respect to BSA who I like very much.

I'm just tired of liking the Spurs because it is the right thing to do, not what I want to do.

Besides, if we play these guys, I'm seriously going to be hoping they get a team epidemic of digestive problems from bad tamales. :D

Hey Roscoe, I don't take personally what is said about the Spurs:sssh: After all, I am on a Pistons Forum board, and have learned more about basketball, Pistons, and all other league teams, also about you guys and have totally enjoyed it. You cant imagine how bad I might feel, and come on the board and you guys really cheer me up, make me laugh.

I know Aurora said something about how boring Spurs are, like watching paint dry and the games should be entertaining, not just about WINNING! What??! It's ALL about winning. I have to admit unless you know the Spurs as a hometown team, they may seem very plain. After all, we have no rapist, 911 calls, family disturbance calls, and gun possession calls to draw attaction to "the un-exciting Spurs." But, that is what we are, we play to win. GSW had a great win, but I think that is as far as they will go in playoffs. This was a Nellie Avenging Angel to Mark Cuban win for GSW. Nellie doesnt have the hate in his heart to beat someone else, IMO.:stirthepot:

Spurs are going to have a tough series with the Suns. Every game will be just like today, and it's anyone's guess who will win. I want the Spurs to win so we can get on to play the Pistons. But, if the Suns win, I won't feel badly, because they will deserve it. I think Pistons will have a better chance with the Spurs than the Suns, because Pistons and Spurs play the same.

So Roscoe, I know all of you are great guys, so sock it to me with any Spur haters. I can handle it:)

Hey Roscoe, I don't take personally what is said about the Spurs:sssh: After all, I am on a Pistons Forum board, and have learned more about basketball, Pistons, and all other league teams, also about you guys and have totally enjoyed it. You cant imagine how bad I might feel, and come on the board and you guys really cheer me up, make me laugh.

I know Aurora said something about how boring Spurs are, like watching paint dry and the games should be entertaining, not just about WINNING! What??! It's ALL about winning. I have to admit unless you know the Spurs as a hometown team, they may seem very plain. After all, we have no rapist, 911 calls, family disturbance calls, and gun possession calls to draw attaction to "the un-exciting Spurs." But, that is what we are, we play to win. GSW had a great win, but I think that is as far as they will go in playoffs. This was a Nellie Avenging Angel to Mark Cuban win for GSW. Nellie doesnt have the hate in his heart to beat someone else, IMO.:stirthepot:

Spurs are going to have a tough series with the Suns. Every game will be just like today, and it's anyone's guess who will win. I want the Spurs to win so we can get on to play the Pistons. But, if the Suns win, I won't feel badly, because they will deserve it. I think Pistons will have a better chance with the Spurs than the Suns, because Pistons and Spurs play the same.

So Roscoe, I know all of you are great guys, so sock it to me with any Spur haters. I can handle it:)

As I said earlier, I love the Spurs team (other than Bowen), it's hard not to like them. They pretty much play like how you would want them to.

I was watching SA-DEN (hate Denver too thx SA for knocking them off) game 5 and was so impressed with how "instinctive" the Spurs are with what they do. I saw Horry make quick hard give and go cuts to the rim for dunks. I saw Manu slicing through the lane. I watched the Spurs take care of every defense that was thrown at them.

All of us fans watch the games and find something to whine about or complain about, when you watch the Spurs, there just seems to be alot less to be unhappy with. They don't have too many knuckleheads to get down on. They are just a SMART AND EFFICIENT TEAM.

I would welcome a re-match with SA, if that isn't to be, I would pull very hard to see UTAH in the FINALS.

The Suns' only option was hoping that their frantic attempts on the bench to bandage him up would stem the blood flow and enable their leader to pass the NBA's infectious-control standards. Nash was initially cleared by the referees to play for nearly two minutes

While he continued to bleed profusely all over the court.

ESPN.com - NBA - Suns' woes include Nash gash (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-070507)

:hoops:

All, I know is, it's one more blow against run and gun teams with DAL already going home and PHX surrendering home court no sooner than the start of the series.

All, I know is, it's one more blow against run and gun teams with DAL already going home and PHX surrendering home court no sooner than the start of the series.

I'd agree with you except for those pesky Warriors.

Barbosa played like a moron at the end. They looked like they probably would have pulled it out with Nash.

Dallas isn't a run and gun team. GSW are.

Dallas is one of the better defensive teams in the league.

Just like the Pistons. Ask Benjamin Gordon.

The Spurs are a team that gets more interesting as the stakes get higher and higher.

Coudlnt figure out why Steve Nash felt he had to get back into the game after his injury, why he couldnt let his team mates take care of business the last few seconds. Seems that he felt his team had lost their intensity. "I'm at a loss to explain why we think we can go out there and not outhustle them and outwork them and win games"

Yahoo Sports:NBA - San Antonio Spurs/Phoenix Suns Preview Tuesday May 8, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/preview?gid=2007050821&prov=ap)

Nash is definitely MVP.

Coudlnt figure out why Steve Nash felt he had to get back into the game after his injury, why he couldnt let his team mates take care of business the last few seconds. Seems that he felt his team had lost their intensity. "I'm at a loss to explain why we think we can go out there and not outhustle them and outwork them and win games"

Nice article Barb, thanks. I'm surprised you wondered at Steve Nash' sense of urgency. They took the first three quarters of the game off. In the period of time he was trying to stop bleeding, there were some horrible possessions by Phoenix. Now granted Amare and Barbosa and Bell all were dealing with great interior defense, but talk about blown opportunities for layups and tip ins! I think Steve is right. I don't think Phoenix started playing this game until the fourth quarter.

I thought Phoenix's chances were very good coming into this series, but having seen that Game 1....I dunno. They made a lot of mistakes, missed alot of easyshots and their spacing seemed all messed up to me. I think alot of the credit goes to the suffocating defense the Spurs play, but based on their 4th quarter play overall I think it might be the "leading contender during the regular season" syndrome as well. I think that is what Steve was talking about in the article.

Your Spurs look like they're playing great. Pop is very smart in that article trying to act like it was just a few plays in the 4th. Yes and no. More no. San Antonio really executed well in their inimitable way and and I expect more of the same. The particular genius of Steve Nash to motivate his team will be the x factor. I bet he was really disappointed in them after this game but he keeps his hand right on the pulse of his teammates and he will do the adjusting to their mental states I think. I love to watch him play. He goes around to all his peeps on the court every chance he gets and encourages them, keeps their spirits up. I think he'll make a fine coach in the future.

No matter what, we're in for some great games.

Spurs defense is effectively kryptonite against the Suns offense. Suns shooting 26% to start Game 2, and after racing to an early 8 point lead, they are now down 5 at the end of the first quarter. Either way the Suns try to play, the Spurs seem to beat them. Duncan particularly seems to enjoy playing the Suns.

This may be the shortest of the semi-final series...I could see the Spurs sweeping this thing if they win Game 2. I'm not trying to sell the Pistons short --- I just presume the Bulls will play much better at home, and the Suns could potentially go down 0-2 after their two home games.

Nash and Amare are 2 - 12 after the 1st quarter of Game 2. That's not going to get it done.

Well here we are at the end of the first quarter Game 2. Phoenix just looks off, which may mean, like the announcers keep saying, that the Spurs have their number. Spurs look in control and the Suns look off. The Spurs are only ahead by 6 points, but to me it looks like Phoenix has a big mountain to climb and they know it. I must be in some kind of alternate universe where the Spurs are faster and less clumsy than the Suns?

Considering this is a must win for them, I hope they can turn around whatever it is they need to turnaround. The more I watch this Spurs team, the less I want us to play them. Although it would be a heavyweight rematch, which would be a very entertaining storyline for the fans of both teams, I swear I couldn't handle it. I'm older than I was two years ago!!!

Suns with a good stretch of play in the last half of the 2nd quarter gives them a 7 point lead at halftime (and a 30-point quarter).

Spurs defense is effectively kryptonite against the Suns offense. Suns shooting 26% to start Game 2, and after racing to an early 8 point lead, they are now down 5 at the end of the first quarter. Either way the Suns try to play, the Spurs seem to beat them. Duncan particularly seems to enjoy playing the Suns.

Hey cwebb! Glad there is someone out there watching this Game 2 and checking in. Listen, I didn't watch much Spurs this year because...well I just don't like them although I respect their game if that makes any sense. But can you or anyone who knows explain why "Spurs defense is effectively kryptonite against the Suns offense." I mean why can't Amare and Marion get going against this team? Both are strong and fast aren't they? The Spurs aren't stronger and faster athletically speaking are they? Is it really true that whoever is guarding Amare and Marion is better at locking them up than they are at getting free to make a good shot? I watched Phoenix all year and half their team in invisible out there right now. Sigh. It's the Stevie and Kurt Thomas show out there. AARGH.

Hey cwebb! Glad there is someone out there watching this Game 2 and checking in. Listen, I didn't watch much Spurs this year because...well I just don't like them although I respect their game if that makes any sense. But can you or anyone who knows explain why "Spurs defense is effectively kryptonite against the Suns offense." I mean why can't Amare and Marion get going against this team? Both are strong and fast aren't they? The Spurs aren't stronger and faster athletically speaking are they? Is it really true that whoever is guarding Amare and Marion is better at locking them up than they are at getting free to make a good shot? I watched Phoenix all year and half their team in invisible out there right now. Sigh. It's the Stevie and Kurt Thomas show out there. AARGH.

Not stronger or faster, but taller, longer, and more experienced. The Spurs are probably the best defensive TEAM in the NBA. They play amazing man to man D, rotate quickly to help, gobble up rebounds, and keep their turnovers very low.

Not stronger or faster, but taller, longer, and more experienced. The Spurs are probably the best defensive TEAM in the NBA. They play amazing man to man D, rotate quickly to help, gobble up rebounds, and keep their turnovers very low.

Agreed. I think the Spurs are also very good at selecting which players they are willing to let beat them. I recall in the series two years ago Amare averaged about 37 ppg, but his team still lost the series in either 5 or 6 games. The Spurs were willing to let him have his way one-on-one inside in exchange for not giving up open three point looks off of Nash's penetration, and it worked.

I actually haven't been able to watch either of the first two games of this series (I was listening to the radio broadcast of Game 2). It just seems like the Spurs know how to play Nash physically without getting called for too many fouls. And they also have the Big Fundamental to challenge PHX's post players on both sides of the ball.

Suns with a good win tonight, though. Pressure is still on them to steal a game back in San Antonio, but I'm sure they are happy to at least get a win under their belts at this point.

Nash was really picking them apart. Looking like an MVP... even showing some defense by taking charges to get Duncan in foul trouble.

In the last 8 minutes of the first half, he had 7 points, 6 assists, and took 2 charges.

This looks like it may be a great series!

Nice blog post on playing Kurt Thomas over Boris Diaw @ truehoop

Link: ESPN.com: TrueHoop (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-39/Everyone--this-is-Kurt.html)

Stoudemire calls Bowen, Ginobili `dirty' players
By BOB BAUM, AP Sports Writer
May 10, 2007

PHOENIX (AP) -- Phoenix All-Star Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/;_ylt=Ausj_Pya2Xrg_VTVtYU46HWLvLYF) says the San Antonio Spurs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/sas/;_ylt=AvMsFsbNDdpGL8rNLPst.a.LvLYF) are a "dirty team" and that Bruce Bowen (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3167/;_ylt=Alrt88AO6iSlLKzewFuByyaLvLYF) tried to hurt him, nasty accusations sure to intensify the playoff series between two of the best teams in the NBA.

"He kicked me purposely in the back of my Achilles'. I almost came down wrong and he almost caused an injury," Stoudemire said after Thursday's practice. "He's known for doing that. I just hope the NBA and the commissioner take a look at that because it's definitely a dirty play."

The Suns' center, selected to the all-NBA first team Thursday, didn't stop there.
"I think the Spurs are a dirty team," he said. "I mean, (Manu) Ginobili during the regular season kneed me in the crotch on purpose. I just hope the league takes a look at it and cleans the game up a little bit."

Stoudemire calls Bowen, Ginobili `dirty' players - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoxobXtexGY9GLn8qyn2sH28vLYF?slug=ap-stoudemire-dirtyspurs&prov=ap&type=lgns)


:hoops:
(http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoxobXtexGY9GLn8qyn2sH28vLYF?slug=ap-stoudemire-dirtyspurs&prov=ap&type=lgns)

You be the judge...

YouTube - Bruce Bowen Kicks Amare Stoudamire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU)

I wouldn't want my daughter to go dancing with Bowen.

:hoops:

I'm watching Game 3 right now and I am finding myself cheering for the Suns. I think the Pistons can beat PHX in a 7-gamer. Not sure about the Spurs. I'd be very surprised if PHX wins this series.

If Lincoln was the Great Emancipator, Tony Parker is the Great Penetrator.

No sexual innuendo comments please. :pound:

gazoo, if that's true, then what does that make Eva Lo...whoops, sorry. :sssh:

Mike D'Antoni just lost it on the podium. Crumpled up his stats sheet and stormed away from the presser.

He was hinting at it, but finally a reporter asked if he thought it was a physical series, and he replied, "Yeah, half. Their half. Now we have to take care of business."

What is it with D`Antoni and Skiles?

They are two sorry losers aren`t they??

Looks like in a few days they both can just take their ball and go home!!!


:pound: :pound: :pound:

gazoo, if that's true, then what does that make Eva Lo...whoops, sorry. :sssh:

Not a desperate housewife. That's for sure.

Nash was really depressing on the podium. Even took a veiled cheapshot @ Amare.

This Suns team is unravelling.

I didn't see it--what did Nash say about Amare?

I can't remember it verbatim. You'll have to check the papers tomorrow.

I didn't see it--what did Nash say about Amare?

Basically he said, Just play the game and stop whining like a little B.....

Seriously

I didn't watch the post-game presser, but from what i saw in the game Nash really isn't one to talk b/c he didn't play well at all.

I'm probably in the minority, but i was just amazed at what Tim Duncan gets away it. Once he got that 3rd (or 4th?), it would have taken him physically breaking someone's leg to pick up another one; yet Amare picks his 4th up on an Oberto (bad call) flop.

That being said Amare is a whiner, but Duncan is just as whiny. I don't know if officiating is just bad or what b/c it seemed like every call went SA's way.

It seems like the refs really are easily swayed by the fans, or just really stupid.

You always hear in a basketball game that one team must take the other team away from their strengths and make them play their opponents style of basketball.

Advantage San Antonio.

D`Antoni said in the post game interview last night, "since everyone wants it to to be tough, then that`s what everybody is going to get" Huh??

I would like the definition of tough from him. Does he mean jacking up 3`s tough?? Having a scowl on your face as his team runs an awesome fast break tough?

Maybe having another player or two that starts bleeding so bad that the blood can`t be stopped tough?

Lets face it, tough is not a term that applies to this Suns team in the way that D`Antoni is implying. The Suns play decent defense, at times, however if they go into game 4 trying to give everyone what they want and play tough, this series will last 5 games.

I wish this was Detroit doing to Phoenix what SA is doing. I knew someone would apply that defensive pressure on that high powered offense to make them say uncle.

Hope they killed each other but somehow still manage to win the WCF. :stirthepot:

Nash was really depressing on the podium. Even took a veiled cheapshot @ Amare.

This Suns team is unravelling.

NBA.com lists this as what Nash said about Amare after the game--is this what you guys were talking about?

“It’s tough. He’s still trying to figure it out. He’s a young player. He missed last season. He got caught a couple of times in some tough situations and (ended up) on the bench. It’s tough. He’ll have to try to not let it happen again. But there are no guarantees.”

Yeah. The "but there are no guarantees", you had to see him say it, heck how he answered the entire question.

It was like he was caught between running away or exploding. For a normally smooth interviewee, he was totally disjointed.

NBA.com lists this as what Nash said about Amare after the game--is this what you guys were talking about?

No.

If I recall correctly, he was talking about how the playoffs are physical and you have to man up and just play.

I`m assuming Nash was refering to Amare`s comments about Bowen and Ginobili being dirty players.

I am paraphrasing of course. Is that what you remember Roscoe?

My mind is tainted now because the guys on ABC just showed me the Bruce Bowen knee on knee hit on Nash, and they are talking about Bowen being on watch, and possible league punishment.

I dunno. Nash was a mess last night after the coach lost it.

I'm all for physical basketball, but Bowen is flat out dangerous.

I'm all for physical basketball, but Bowen is flat out dangerous.

Too bad it isn't hockey where somebody could just retaliate and beat the living s*** outta him. :granade:

Didn't look intentional to me.

The Suns are letting the Spurs get in their kitchen, which is what SA was looking to do. This is why the Spurs are not the team that we want to face.

If you're a fan of this series, there is an excellent blog post up on Truehoop today.

Feeling Violated by Playoff Basketball (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-62/Feeling-Violated-by-Playoff-Basketball.html)

I only saw the last 2 or 3 minutes of this game, and I don't think I saw San Antonio score a single point! Quite a comeback by the Suns, and a pretty bad choke by the Spurs. The Horry flagrant on Nash was some nasty thuggery, he might get suspended for that...it was a flagrant 2, so maybe the suspension is automatic.

Amare might get suspended for Game 5 as well. He was pretty much on the court from off the bench during that brouhaha, before Iavaroni managed to push him back.

I've watched the Spurs alot this year, and i've seen them choke/almost choke alot of games away (including those 2 against us). I assumed they were over it when they started playing better. I don't if this can be classified as a choke, or the Suns deciding to small and that being the difference. Great game nonetheless.

I hope Amare isn't suspended. It will completely f'up the series. I like our chances if we get to the finals against the Suns better.

I keep hearing, oh Amare shouldn`t be suspended, it wouldn`t be fair, it would give SA the series. You know what, a rule is a rule!


Kenny Smith made a good point on TNT last night. He siad if you don`t enforce the rule in this situation, how can you enforce it on someone else?

Sorta like, how can you let Lebron take 5 steps going to the hoop but call traveling on someone who takes 4 steps.

Oops, bad example.......Lol

I keep hearing, oh Amare shouldn`t be suspended, it wouldn`t be fair, it would give SA the series. You know what, a rule is a rule!


Kenny Smith made a good point on TNT last night. He siad if you don`t enforce the rule in this situation, how can you enforce it on someone else?


The league created last night because they didn't make a statement sooner, why start now?
Heres the way I look at it:

1) If they don't suspend Robert Horry...the Spurs got away with yet another cheap shot. One more cheap shot will probably result in "the brawl" pt deux.

2) If they suspend Amare, then the Spurs pretty much got away with a cheap shot and game 5. You can bet that another cheap shot during the probable blowout will result in "the brawl" part deux.

IMO, the league needs to put things into the context of the series as a whole, and realize that the only just thing to do is to suspend "cheap shot" Bob.

What is the rule exactly?

Players get off the bench all the time and even step onto the court when there is a great play.

Is it that they can't get up when there is a fight? What is the definition of a fight?

What happens if they get off the bench for a great play (like Flip Murray's dunk on Hinrich) and then it evolves into a fight?

Edit:
So, here is the rule-
"c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game. A team must have a minimum of eight players dressed and ready to play in every game. If five or more players leave the bench, the players will serve their suspensions alphabetically, according to the first letters of their last name. If seven bench players are suspended (assuming no participants are included), four of them would be suspended for the first game following the altercation. The remaining three would be suspended for the second game following the altercation."

So I guess the question is, how do they define "altercation."

I'm all for physical basketball, but Bowen is flat out dangerous.

I like a JMax vs. Bowen matchup.

Amare & Diaw are out for 1 game...Horry got 2. Hurt the Suns worse than the Spurs??? :bs:

Here's a short AP article (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2871615) on ESPN.

The league is going to have to fix their suspension policies, because they've really painted themselves into a corner. In this case, they have to automatically suspend Stoudemire and Diaw, even though Horry was the instigator. So what do they do? They suspend Horry for two games for a relatively mild cheap shot that would not be deserving of a two-game suspension in any other situation. It's pretty weak as a make-up though: the Spurs could lose Horry for the rest of the playoffs and it still wouldn't be as big a blow as the Suns missing Amare for even one game.

Phoenix center Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/;_ylt=Arf1LornP0GFJ1xkN0ze4L6LvLYF) and teammate Boris Diaw (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3724/;_ylt=ArRiO6eX92ckwAjm8.T.yvWLvLYF) were suspended Tuesday for one game for leaving the bench after Robert Horry (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/830/;_ylt=ApjzAwzo4VsbMOj1YMDR9qCLvLYF)'s flagrant foul of Steve Nash (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3103/;_ylt=AtA2otYRxx3HVyDUI.QxK9aLvLYF) in Game 4 of the Suns' Western Conference semifinal against San Antonio.

The NBA also announced Horry was suspended for two games for knocking Nash into the scorer's table with 18 seconds remaining in the Suns' 104-98 victory at San Antonio on Monday night. Phoenix's victory evened the series at 2-2.


Stoudemire, Diaw suspended for 1 game; Horry for 2 - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AibrXwwPpaPc9Qo7HlEFfYM5nYcB?slug=ap-suns-spurssuspensions&prov=ap&type=lgns)

This is the NBA at its finest. I bet Stern is biting his nails now hoping that Suns can pull off a miracle.

This is the NBA at its finest. I bet Stern is biting his nails now hoping that Suns can pull off a miracle.

Speaking of our boy Stern, this is my favourite part of the article on espn.com

Sarver also said that NBA commissioner David Stern has canceled a schedule appearance in Phoenix for Wednesday night's Game 5.

:pound::pound::pound: What's the matter Sterny, afraid of the fan reaction?

ESPN.com - NBA/PLAYOFFS2007 - Amare, Diaw suspended one game; Horry gets 2 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2871615)

Amare & Diaw are out for 1 game...Horry got 2. Hurt the Suns worse than the Spurs??? :bs:

Yeah, Amare and Boris' stupidity hurts the Suns worse. Could cost 'em the series. It will take Herculean efforts from the real MVP (Nash) and Weird Shot Marion to pull this off. The Spurs can compensate for the loss of Horry.

An interesting look at it all from mysanantonio.com:
MySA.com: Buck Harvey (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA051607.01C.COL.BKNspurs.harvey.36b6051.html)


The Spurs are no longer the team that America hates to watch. Now they are the team America just hates.

They are the team that bloodied little Steve Nash, kneed little Steve Nash and eventually slammed little Steve Nash to the floor. Somehow, they've hoodwinked the league at the same time and have benefited by their dastardly deeds.

Their black road uniforms finally fit their persona. And if the Spurs beat the Suns tonight, most will stick an asterisk on Game 5 bigger than 1999.

I'm posting this for AURORA but everyone can enjoy. Except AHB and BSA. :)

whackahorry (http://www.azcentral.com/flash/0516_whackahorry/whackahorry.html)

.

I'm posting this for AURORA but everyone can enjoy. Except AHB and BSA. :)

whackahorry (http://www.azcentral.com/flash/0516_whackahorry/whackahorry.html)

.That's a tough game to play with a touch pad :pound:

That coward David Stern cancelled his appearance at tonight's Suns game to go to Cleveland instead.

It's too bad he's so gutless that he won't face his customers after depriving their team of not only 2 of their best players, but perhaps an opportunity to win this series.

Shame on him.

Stern showed his true colors on the Dan Patrick show this morning on ESPN. They have aired it couple of times on ESPN news. He and Dan should meet at Madison Square garden with gloves.

Dan tried to tell him that this supensions could affect the outcome of the series, but of course Stern yelled back defending his offices' actions.

Sorry I don't have the audio link.

Apparently it is available to ESPN Insiders.

This is very discouraging to us, fans. This is just saying that they don't care about the main customer. And this is coming down to the NBA conspiracy theories that this system is rigged.

Anybody out there watching this game? I can't even watch it. I think I'm getting to be far too emotional about basketball after 3 years of being a fan. There are just some games I can't watch because it upsets me too much. This is one of them. Talk about neurotic. I have this Game 5 Suns/Spurs on three tvs in the house where I am dogsitting. I am hiding from the game on Pf.com.

Yeah yeah I know the Suns are ahead by alot. But I ask myself how long can that last without Stoudemire and Diaw. I mean Diaw is the Stoudemire backup for crying out loud. I hear all the loud booring and cheering from where I sit right now, and I go sneak a peak at the score once in a while. I watched the whole Pistons/Spurs Finals series this way two years ago. I recorded all the games and watched them after the game was over. Couldn't handle the real time intensity of it all. LOL.

Anyway I just want to say, and this is HIGHLY partisan, that if the League does impact the refs for these games in the Playoffs, that this is an instance where the very second Stern suspended Stoudemire and Diaw, he should have picked up the phone to that ref guy and let him know which way the officiating should lean in this Game 5. Rules were made to be broken, or at least twisted.

Roscoe! I love the Horry game. But I'm horrible at it. Hand/eye coordination is not my strength. It is very funny though. Thanks for thinking me. It made me laugh very hard. I haven't forgotten how Horry's Big 3 made Sheed an escape goat a while back either. LOL.

My nickname (more because they ruined our back to back 2 years ago) for the Spurs is Those Dastardly Spurs (usually spoken with a grudging respect). My sister called me yesterday. "Hon, I just saw ESPN news. They really ARE the Dastardly Spurs! ) LOL.

Oh my God. It's only 13 points ahead, 4 minutes left in first half. That's hardly a convincing lead when it comes to The Dastardly but Extremely Competent Spurs. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGHHHHHHHHHh. I'm a mess.

Oh, you just knew the Spurs were gonna win this thing. Not enough offense from the Suns down the stretch, ultimately. San Antonio is just the toughest team, mentally, in the Association. Much tougher than our Pistons, too. Obviously, no Amare or Diaw was a huge factor. Kudos to Kurt Thomas for a well-played game and valiant effort.

Stern probably never steps foot in PHX again.

Anybody out there watching this game? ... It's only 13 points ahead, 4 minutes left in first half. That's hardly a convincing lead when it comes to The Dastardly but Extremely Competent Spurs. AAAAAAAAAAAAARGGHHHHHHHHHh. I'm a mess.

How depressing. 88-85 Spurs. Not surprising I guess with the Stoudemire/Diaw suspensions. All the games have ended pretty closely except the second one. The Suns did great with the short lineup they had to work with and they got my hopes up by being 3-10 points up most of the game. Ran out of gas at about the same time that San Antonio discovered their outside shot again.

I really wanted Steve Nash to make it to the Finals this year. I'm depressed. Close games are so excruciating. Three points! And unless they can win two games in a row, Phoenix once again won't be going to the Finals. Boo.

Just got to hand it to the Spurs for winning a very tough game even with the Suns short handed. The Spurs have a worse back-up guard situation than we do. Jacque Vaughn would have a hard time being a star in the NBDL and Beno is deeper in the doghouse than Scoopy Doo. I'm mystified why Jalen Rose never gets a chance to play much in the playoffs? Surely his leadership and smarts count for something? Was the only reason Phoenix picked him up was to keep him away from other Western conference teams?

This series is not over by a long shot and the Suns are resilent but the Spurs know how to close out a series so I hope the Pistons are paying attention.

Jazz were the only team to win game 5 at home, as Suns, Cavs and Pistons all lose game 5 at home and are forced to play a game six on the road.

Cavs and Pistons can close out on the road, but the Suns have to stay alive to get back home to try to salvage a game 7 victory.

With all the criticizing of Stern, he was probably hoping the Suns would win tonights game, but now they are down 3-2 due to the Suns failure to have a "cut" man to stop Nash 's bloody nose in game 1 and then having two key players sitting out game 5 due to the controversial suspensions.

Spurs are getting breaks winning these close ones..

watched the 4th quarter on and I think the officiating was very fair.. for once..lol gj nba got one right..

Spurs are getting breaks winning these close ones..

San Antonio is the Notre Dame of the NBA this series. :pound:

The thing that gets me about this whole series is it looks like the Spurs are getting this label as "cheaters/dirty", why? Because they have ONE PLAYER that is truly dirty? We all know that Bowen is a low-life scum. But the way that PXH and their coach and players are whining and crying about it is twice as sickening. D'Antoni has NEVER COACHED DEFENSE. "7 Seconds or less", does that sound like a great way to play offense in a manner that will allow your defense to setup and prepare for each possession? PHX and their staff are trying to use this "dirty" angle take focus away from the fact that they can't compete DEFENSIVELY with the Spurs. They are looking for an angle and crying for any advantage they can get to take away from their teams' shortcomings.

Amare is crying over his suspension by saying it's the Spurs fault. Hey dumbarse, why not STAY ON THE BENCH???? Amare is coming off as an IMMATURE WHINER. Did he deserve to be suspended? He11 yes he did. He left the vicinity of the bench during an altercation, the words are in BLACK AND WHITE. It's ABSOLUTE. HE BROKE THE RULES ALONG WITH DIAW. Why all the crying over it?

What Horry did was a hard foul, a foul out of frustration and worth a 1 game suspension (not sure about 2 games, but the league wanted to somewhat appease the overall whininess of the PHX area).

I think PHX has gotten "top-billing" from the LEAGUE and their offices in trying to "lure" fans into thinking that the PHX style is "how to play the right way". They are always calling PHX "exciting, high-flying action, entertaining", they want to tell us what to think about PHX instead of letting the fans decide for themselves. I know there are quite a few fans of PHX and their style (I'm not one of them). I believe there are many more "casual fans" of this style than HARD-CORE FANS. I think this style is all part of Stern's "new NBA" where no one can touch anyone and the license to play Defense has been revoked. Do I want that? Do Pistons' fans want that? I hope not.

Anyways, watching PHX go down in flames and watching their FRAUDULENT STYLE GO DOWN IN FLAMES will be among one of the most satisfying moments in these playoffs for me if SA can hold on and take down the FRAUDS FROM PHOENIX.

Tough game to watch last night. I caught most of the second half.

Now that I am looking for it, the Spurs are heinously dirty and the announcers completely overlook it.

I'm only apalled because I don't think my team could get away with that, but honestly, it's probably still very tame compared to what the Bad Boys did.

Of course back then you could get revenge.

Phoenix ALMOST Did It (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-78/Phoenix-ALMOST-Did-It.html)

Did you notice a really cool move by Barbosa? He held the ball out top, preparing for the drive, but he paused, while dribbling, to lick the fingertips of each hand. He should make that his trademark move.
Too bad Leandro had such a lousy game. He really needs to develop his bball IQ, because all of the physical tools are there.

Tough game to watch last night. I caught most of the second half.

Now that I am looking for it, the Spurs are heinously dirty and the announcers completely overlook it.

I'm only apalled because I don't think my team could get away with that, but honestly, it's probably still very tame compared to what the Bad Boys did.

Of course back then you could get revenge.

That's how I feel about PHX, just how many flops is too much. The SUNS flop so much that other announcers and fans actually believe it's a legit form of defense. Their fans have been convinced as well.

BTW: We've never seen PHX do anything like the Spurs have we? Never seen Raja Bell make a "dirty" play.???? Not even once ????

To me "flopping" is just as bad or worse than hard fouls because it's killing the integrity of the game. You aren't good enough to compete so you FLOP. What a lame tactic. Spurs have Manu flop, but nobody beat PHX or CLEVELAND at it.

Dude, I saw Steve Nash drive baseline at the end of the game, and Bruce Bowen threw a punch at his ribs, but crossed up his arm and the ref totally missed it. Of course, Bruce threw it with Nash's body shielding the ref's vision.

There is a certain amount of ticky-tackness in the playoffs, compounded by the no fighting rules (no one would screw with Nash if Pat Burke could retaliate), but throwing elbows, and constant tripping, sneaky punches, and constantly grabbing just ruins the fan experience.

The Suns have nothing on the Spurs for being dirty, floppers or whiners.

Dude, I saw Steve Nash drive baseline at the end of the game, and Bruce Bowen threw a punch at his ribs, but crossed up his arm and the ref totally missed it. Of course, Bruce threw it with Nash's body shielding the ref's vision.

There is a certain amount of ticky-tackness in the playoffs, compounded by the no fighting rules (no one would screw with Nash if Pat Burke could retaliate), but throwing elbows, and constant tripping, sneaky punches, and constantly grabbing just ruins the fan experience.

The Suns have nothing on the Spurs for being dirty, floppers or whiners.

I bet you also believe and call that a "kick" over the now infamous "amare dunk" too don't you?

PHX fans are trying so hard to find something to blame for their losses and shortcoming that they will try anything or any reason. Grasping at straws.

PHX is not as good as SA. PERIOD.

PHX doesn't attempt to play defense. PERIOD.

PHX doesn't have the DISCIPLINE to play efficiently in the halfcourt. PERIOD.

PHX can't beat SA if they allow all the players to play BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD.

PHX is losing because of all of the reasons above. PERIOD.

I bet you also believe and call that a "kick" over the now infamous "amare dunk" too don't you?

PHX fans are trying so hard to find something to blame for their losses and shortcoming that they will try anything or any reason. Grasping at straws.

PHX is not as good as SA. PERIOD.

PHX doesn't attempt to play defense. PERIOD.

PHX doesn't have the DISCIPLINE to play efficiently in the halfcourt. PERIOD.

PHX can't beat SA if they allow all the players to play BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD.

PHX is losing because of all of the reasons above. PERIOD.

Why do you end every sentence with 2 or 3 periods?

I bet you also believe and call that a "kick" over the now infamous "amare dunk" too don't you?
Bill Simmons thinks so. He's a Celtics fan.

PHX fans are trying so hard to find something to blame for their losses and shortcoming that they will try anything or any reason. Grasping at straws.
If they didn't get screwed on the suspensions, they would probably be up 3-2 in this series.

PHX is not as good as SA. PERIOD.
That's your opinion. When healthy, I think PHX is much more talented.

PHX doesn't attempt to play defense. PERIOD.
The stats do not bear this out. They were 14th in pace defense (middle of the road) during the season.

PHX doesn't have the DISCIPLINE to play efficiently in the halfcourt. PERIOD.
Did you watch Nash last night? The guy is a wizard running the P&R.

PHX can't beat SA if they allow all the players to play BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD.
I don't get this.

PHX is losing because of all of the reasons above. PERIOD.
PHX is losing because San Antonio takes advantage of the rules, and they lost both of their rotation PF/C's to suspension in the last game.

Didn't you hate Ginobili's flopping and Bowen's dirty tactics?

Change of religion?

I think the whole cheap shot Bob incident, COMMA was handled poorly. If this was hockey nobody would think a thing of it, COMMA in fact it was much less serious than some of the other things going on in the NBA; SEMICOLON taking someone's legs out when they are going to the basket is a career thretening move. That deserves a suspension. You get Amare suspended for taking a couple of steps on the court...that's absurd.

Apparently it is available to ESPN Insiders.

Stinkin Insiders...it's not worth my money to subscribe whereas this is the only time there's every been anything there that I felt NEEDED to be seen/heard.

Bill Simmons thinks so. He's a Celtics fan.


If they didn't get screwed on the suspensions, they would probably be up 3-2 in this series.


That's your opinion. When healthy, I think PHX is much more talented.


The stats do not bear this out. They were 14th in pace defense (middle of the road) during the season.


Did you watch Nash last night? The guy is a wizard running the P&R.


I don't get this.


PHX is losing because San Antonio takes advantage of the rules, and they lost both of their rotation PF/C's to suspension in the last game.

Didn't you hate Ginobili's flopping and Bowen's dirty tactics?

Change of religion?


Of course I hate that kind of crap. Bruce Bowen is one of my top 5 most hated in the NBA. I don't like the dirty antics, but for as much as I hate that, I also hate FLOPPING. Manu flops as well, but can't do justice to the PHX team. They teach flopping and try to pawn it off as defense. When you watch PHX, how many times do you see Nash trying to slide in to take charges or "flop" to draw offensive fouls?

Do you know how many times Nash slides in UNDER a player on a pick and roll and gets those calls despite NOT BEING SET? Sliding under a player before he can CATCH AND TURN to make a move is just as dangerous as getting a forearm shiver (which you see coming). A player catching the ball on the pick and roll and then NOT GETTING SPACE TO TURN AND LAND is dangerous as hell. Do you see Nash getting a dirty lablel? I've seen him do it alot.

Nash isn't good enough defensively so he has to "cheat" by using flopping and his status (MVP winner) to get calls that most others wouldn't get. If Nash does have the courage to step in front of an offensive player, then it seems like he gets the benefit of the doubt from nearly every official. RARELY, do I ever see NASH in foul trouble or FOULED OUT. Is that because he doesn't reach in? He doesn't fight through screens? He doesn't do anything that would get his hand caught in the cookie jar?

Don't get me started on Raja Bell. He's right up there with Bowen in dirty antics. Amare and Marion REPEATEDLY go over the back on rebounds. They go THROUGH guys to get to the ball. It rarely gets called. There is a double standard. PHX is used to getting away with alot of the EXTRAS during the season, not that it's the playoffs and they aren't getting those calls, I've never heard such whining.

The one time I will EVER agree with Jack. The Suns players brought this on themselves. If Jalen Rose had ran his arse on the court and gotten suspended, no one would have cared. But, now Amare does it, and we need to have leniency? How so?

The league has been consistent on this from day one of the rule being instated. My biggest gripe with Bilbo Stern and his officials is that they don't call the game consistently. In this instance they have been consistent and I would be hypocritical to suggest they should not follow the rule this time. The "Duncan issue" is not valid because it was not an "altercation" AND Duncan did not leave the "immediate vicinity of the bench."

The rule doesn't say you can't step onto the court. It says you can't leave the immediate vicinity of the bench and that is exactly what Amare and Boris did. Duncan did not run a 1/4 of the distance Amare did (with the intent to jump in, mind you). Those two were not running over there to be peacemakers, they were running in to take up for Nash which exactly fits the intention of the rule.

I hate Bowen, I dislike (but respect) the Spurs. However, if Amare had remembered to keep his dumb ass on the bench, Horry would have still gotten bounced for two games and the Spurs would have had to play with out one of their vets and a very dangerous shooter. This is why I can't stand teams like PHX. They want the rules to apply until it bites them, then they want to come up with exceptions.

This rule has been in place for A DECADE. It has been followed consistently since its inception. For this team (owner included) to act like this was just sprung on them or cry like babies once their player breaks it is disingenuous and unfair to the rest of the teams who have paid the price for breaking this rule.

The one time I will EVER agree with Jack. The Suns players brought this on themselves. If Jalen Rose had ran his arse on the court and gotten suspended, no one would have cared. But, now Amare does it, and we need to have leniency? How so?

The league has been consistent on this from day one of the rule being instated. My biggest gripe with Bilbo Stern and his officials is that they don't call the game consistently. In this instance they have been consistent and I would be hypocritical to suggest they should not follow the rule this time. The "Duncan issue" is not valid because it was not an "altercation" AND Duncan did not leave the "immediate vicinity of the bench."

The rule doesn't say you can't step onto the court. It says you can't leave the immediate vicinity of the bench and that is exactly what Amare and Boris did. Duncan did not run a 1/4 of the distance Amare did (with the intent to jump in, mind you). Those two were not running over there to be peacemakers, they were running in to take up for Nash which exactly fits the intention of the rule.

I hate Bowen, I dislike (but respect) the Spurs. However, if Amare had remembered to keep his dumb ass on the bench, Horry would have still gotten bounced for two games and the Spurs would have had to play with out one of their vets and a very dangerous shooter. This is why I can't stand teams like PHX. They want the rules to apply until it bites them, then they want to come up with exceptions.

This rule has been in place for A DECADE. It has been followed consistently since its inception. For this team (owner included) to act like this was just sprung on them or cry like babies once their player breaks it is disingenuous and unfair to the rest of the teams who have paid the price for breaking this rule.

It was all a big mistake. Low. Amare was just going over to check into the game. He didn't want to get in on the fight.

Since all circumstances are not equal, letter of the law interpretation is the refuge of cowards.

It takes wisdom to make a determination, an accounting for time, circumstance, results and the effect of consequences.

If a Piston ran on the court to see Billups after a hard foul by Nocioni, he would be a good teammate. Maybe he would breaking the rules, but I grew up believing that you have your boy's back. That's called team.

Amare and Boris did lose their heads, but not to go after Horry. To get to Nash who was laying on the sideline.

I'm sorry, but the NBA hid behind the rules that in many other instances, they are more than willing to interpret with a free hand (see Carmelo's 15 game suspension for what was a slap).

It was all a big mistake. Low. Amare was just going over to check into the game. He didn't want to get in on the fight.

:pound:

Since all circumstances are not equal, letter of the law interpretation is the refuge of cowards.

It takes wisdom to make a determination, an accounting for time, circumstance, results and the effect of consequences.

If a Piston ran on the court to see Billups after a hard foul by Nocioni, he would be a good teammate. Maybe he would breaking the rules, but I grew up believing that you have your boy's back. That's called team.

Amare and Boris did lose their heads, but not to go after Horry. To get to Nash who was laying on the sideline.

I'm sorry, but the NBA hid behind the rules that in many other instances, they are more than willing to interpret with a free hand (see Carmelo's 15 game suspension for what was a slap).

I'm sorry..I got into a huge argument with a co-worker yesterday. On this particular rule, there has been NO deviation from day 1. Including the laughable time they showed on TNT when Barkley meandered on to the court. Even if you include the brawl in DET when I believe some pistons got a game for leaving the bench. If anything, I'm annoyed with any player who left the bench and didn't get involved, that way, he just earned himself a 1 game suspension knowingly for no reason at all.

If this was such huge issue with interpretation, then I think the players union and/or the league owners would have brought this up on more than one occasion when they do the rules review in the offseason. They made a big stink about the "no tolerance" tech rule, but in 10 years, nothing about this rule. They can't %%%%% about it when it suits them. They've had a full decade to see this rule in practice and no one has complained until everyone's "fun to watch" team gets bitten by it.

My fun to watch team was the G-State Warriors.

I just cannot stand the Spurs at all these days. I'd love to see the knocked out. If PHX can't do it, I'm hoping for Utah. There is less night life in SLC than anywhere else, so the Pistons should be able to stay in at night if they make the Finals. ;)

If this was such huge issue with interpretation, then I think the players union and/or the league owners would have brought this up on more than one occasion when they do the rules review in the offseason.

I think there is a decent chance this rule will get reviewed. On the one hand, I agree that it should be applied uniformly, but I hate to see it affect the outcome of a playoff series, especially since Horry started it. For all we know, the guy started isht on purpose. Trying to look at both sides of the argument and I think the rule should be reviewed. They'll probably come up with something totall cryptic like, "Player must move at least five feet from where he is sitting on the bench and have hands above the waist."

My fun to watch team was the G-State Warriors.

I just cannot stand the Spurs at all these days. I'd love to see the knocked out. If PHX can't do it, I'm hoping for Utah. There is less night life in SLC than anywhere else, so the Pistons should be able to stay in at night if they make the Finals. ;)

Well, personally, we've looked like crap against Utah this season...I'd be a tad bit concerned. But, I don't see any way Utah makes it past SA.

I think there is a decent chance this rule will get reviewed. On the one hand, I agree that it should be applied uniformly, but I hate to see it affect the outcome of a playoff series, especially since Horry started it. For all we know, the guy started isht on purpose. Trying to look at both sides of the argument and I think the rule should be reviewed. They'll probably come up with something totall cryptic like, "Player must move at least five feet from where he is sitting on the bench and have hands above the waist."

Well if PHX had guys that obeyed the rule, then it would NOT be affecting this series.

A rule is a rule, PHX needs to deal with it. Instead of dealing they have tried to find a sympathetic ear with which to cry to. Their coach, their players and most of all their fans are all WHINING over an ABSOLUTE rule. It's cut and dry, hard and fast, and applies to everyone.

I think there is a decent chance this rule will get reviewed. On the one hand, I agree that it should be applied uniformly, but I hate to see it affect the outcome of a playoff series, especially since Horry started it. For all we know, the guy started isht on purpose. Trying to look at both sides of the argument and I think the rule should be reviewed. They'll probably come up with something totall cryptic like, "Player must move at least five feet from where he is sitting on the bench and have hands above the waist."

That's why I maintain the view that had PHX not tried to run out and retaliate, the Spurs would have been the only team hurt as Horry would be out for 2 games.

That's why I maintain the view that had PHX not tried to run out and retaliate, the Spurs would have been the only team hurt as Horry would be out for 2 games.

Well Low that's true. So what? If you call what Diaw and Stoudemire did "retaliation" I don't know what to say. It's exactly why the rule must be reviewed and clarified carefully. The wrong team got penalized more harshly. When the letter of the law results in injustice and can be manipulated so easily, it's time to give it another look. Yes, Diaw and Stoudemire left the bench and ran up the sideline onto the court. But did they run with "intent to fight or harm"? We don't know. The coaches stopped them. But do we know for sure that they would have started a fist fight or can we say that they might have practiced some self-containment and nothing further would have happened? We don't know.

"It's a bad rule and I hope they change it." Charles Barkley

Well Low that's true. So what? If you call what Diaw and Stoudemire did "retaliation" I don't know what to say. It's exactly why the rule must be reviewed and clarified carefully. The wrong team got penalized more harshly. When the letter of the law results in injustice and can be manipulated so easily, it's time to give it another look. Yes, Diaw and Stoudemire left the bench and ran up the sideline onto the court. But did they run with "intent to fight or harm"? We don't know. The coaches stopped them. But do we know for sure that they would have started a fist fight or can we say that they might have practiced some self-containment and nothing further would have happened? We don't know.

"It's a bad rule and I hope they change it." Charles Barkley


IRREGARDLESS of what the rule is supposed to prevent. The rule is written to keep additional "POTENTIAL instigators" off the court. Whether or not Stoudamire and Diaw where pulled away before they could get involved is immaterial. They ran out there with the intent of joining the fracas. Which is precisely why the rule was crafted so that you would have to stay your ass in the immediate vicinity of the bench. You are allowed to stand up, yell, curse, even take a step forward. But when you break out into a sprint to get involved (deterred or not) you have broken the rule and they were correctly penalized.

Eveyone involved KNEW going into this that you have to stay near the bench. Stay near the bench. STAY NEAR THE BENCH. If you can't maintain your thoughts beyond reacting like wild animal and going all Incredible Hulk on the opponent after a hard foul, you should be suspended...you deserve it.

That's why I maintain the view that had PHX not tried to run out and retaliate, the Spurs would have been the only team hurt as Horry would be out for 2 games.There was no retaliation. I think Horry got 2 games ONLY because Stern wanted to handicap the Suns for 1. If the league didn't suspend Stoudemire & Diaw for a game, Horry would have only been out last night and not tomorrow night too.

Mind you, I WANNA see a Pistons/Spurs rematch but the league call was crap. The rule needs review.

In a freakin decade, PHX is the only team crying like babies over this. I'm sure the Knicks and Heat of '97 have much more of an axe to grind over this kind of thing, but nevertheless, no one bothered to take issue with this over the last 10 years until PHX figures they're players shouldn't be held to the same standard as everyone else.

Why? Are they mentally challenged? Deficient? Feral?

Dozens of teams, since this rule has been instated, have suffered lost players for not staying on the bench. They've all served their suspensions without becoming crybabies. But, now PHX thinks they should get a pass because Horry struck first. What's next, should they be allowed to get in one punch before they start disciplining PHX as well? An altercation starts because one guy does something 1st. That's why it elevates to an altercation. That doesn't mean you get a free pass to make the situation worse because, "well, what was I supposed to do?" For all the times people want to point at how much these guys get paid, this is one of them. They are not boxers, they are basketball players and they get paid to ball, not fight.

As much as I love to see hard fouls, there still is no excuse for turning the game into an all out brawl or giving guys free passes to make a bad situation worse by allowing for "alleged" retaliation. Just ask Rudy T. You can't wait until a guy has his face broken to start counting who gets suspended.

There was no retaliation. I think Horry got 2 games ONLY because Stern wanted to handicap the Suns for 1. If the league didn't suspend Stoudemire & Diaw for a game, Horry would have only been out last night and not tomorrow night too.

Mind you, I WANNA see a Pistons/Spurs rematch but the league call was crap. The rule needs review.

Untrue, the league stated that Horry got two games. One for hitting Nash and one for hitting Bell above the neck with an elbow.

Horry would have only gotten one game because it was no worse than Posey's hit on Hinrich last year, for which he was only given one game. The 2nd came from hitting Bell.

So, if Amare and Diaw stay near the bench, No Suns get punished and Horry is out a game. Plain and simple.

There was no retaliation. I think Horry got 2 games ONLY because Stern wanted to handicap the Suns for 1. If the league didn't suspend Stoudemire & Diaw for a game, Horry would have only been out last night and not tomorrow night too.

Mind you, I WANNA see a Pistons/Spurs rematch but the league call was crap. The rule needs review.


...and note I said, "tried to run out and retaliate"

...not actually retaliate. The rule doesn't say you have to successfully reach the altercation and sock someone in the jaw. It says "immediate vicinity of the bench."

There is no room for debate on this, the league in this particular instance has been consistent for over 10 years. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you guys still feel the need to complain.

In a freakin decade, PHX is the only team crying like babies over this. I'm sure the Knicks and Heat of '97 have much more of an axe to grind over this kind of thing, but nevertheless, no one bothered to take issue with this over the last 10 years until PHX figures they're players shouldn't be held to the same standard as everyone else.

Why? Are they mentally challenged? Deficient? Feral?

Dozens of teams, since this rule has been instated, have suffered lost players for not staying on the bench. They've all served their suspensions without becoming crybabies. But, now PHX thinks they should get a pass because Horry struck first. What's next, should they be allowed to get in one punch before they start disciplining PHX as well? An altercation starts because one guy does something 1st. That's why it elevates to an altercation. That doesn't mean you get a free pass to make the situation worse because, "well, what was I supposed to do?" For all the times people want to point at how much these guys get paid, this is one of them. They are not boxers, they are basketball players and they get paid to ball, not fight.

As much as I love to see hard fouls, there still is no excuse for turning the game into an all out brawl or giving guys free passes to make a bad situation worse by allowing for "alleged" retaliation. Just ask Rudy T. You can't wait until a guy has his face broken to start counting who gets suspended.


Wow, this is eery, I've never agreed with Low this much before. It's almost like he is making my posts for me now.

... STAY NEAR THE BENCH. If you can't maintain your thoughts beyond reacting like wild animal and going all Incredible Hulk on the opponent after a hard foul, you should be suspended...you deserve it.

And if you ARE going to get suspended, try to make it count. :)

Hate to say that I agree with Jack (sorry buddy), but I think he's right. If you are going to complain about dirty play and rule violations, you have to accept the penalties when you violate the rules. (just make it count next time!)


Maybe the Suns will learn from this experience and pick up an enforcer during the offseason. Those guys could really use six hard fouls.

Maybe they could grab this guy from the D League:

http://media.scout.com/Media/College_Mens_Basketball/17682_Beasley.JPG

The rule needs review. Not everyone in the NBA is Carmelo or RonRon or Jackson. The tape should be reviewed to determine 'intent' before blindly giving a team an edge in the playoffs. The situation reminds me of divorce court. :yellowprison:

The rule needs review. Not everyone in the NBA is Carmelo or RonRon or Jackson. The tape should be reviewed to determine 'intent' before blindly giving a team an edge in the playoffs. The situation reminds me of divorce court. :yellowprison:

Ouch. Sounds personal.

Ouch. Sounds personal.yep :pound:

The rule needs review. Not everyone in the NBA is Carmelo or RonRon or Jackson. The tape should be reviewed to determine 'intent' before blindly giving a team an edge in the playoffs. The situation reminds me of divorce court. :yellowprison:

At who's discretion?

You want to give the COMMISH or league more power to play favorites?

What is wrong with ADULT MEN UNDERSTANDING AND PLAYING BY THE RULES?

I don't think anyone can determine what goes on in ANYONE'S HEAD, let alone say they know the "intent" of said individual.

It's a black and white rule. It's absolute. The only problem with it is that some of the league's players must not understand how to read and obey it.

I'm totally with Low and Jack here. If the rule had been bent in this case, wouldn't everyone be yelling about how Phoenix was being favored, the fix was in to get the sexy team into the finals, the game is rigged to favor the stars, etc.? If Jalen or some other scrub had been the one coming off the bench, obviously no one would be complaining about the rule being enforced in the same way it's been enforced for the past decade. OK, so maybe the rule itself should be changed in some way, that's a legitimate argument. But the Suns have no leg to stand on at all here.

I'm totally with Low and Jack here.Wow...the thought of Low & Jack in the same room kinda freaks me out

LOL...I just wish I had made game chat tonight....

Lightning has struck with Jack and I agreeing....don't expect it to strike twice :MusicBigGrin:

If you can't maintain your thoughts beyond reacting like wild animal and going all Incredible Hulk on the opponent after a hard foul, you should be suspended...you deserve it.

Low this is just a point of fact. I'm no longer interesting in arguing about the rule. But if you can find Stoudemire or Diaw "going all Incredible Hulk on the opponent" in your game tape, your powers of imagination are indeed...powerful.

As far as the rule goes, upon further review of my own, the consensus seems to be that the rule is just fine and it's black-and-white quality is actually what makes it easy for the players to understand and also easy to enforce. I figure the guys actually playing are the ones most impacted and they seem to be okay with it.

I hope Phoenix doesn't get eliminated tomorrow. I hope they get a Game 7 to battle it out.

LOL...I just wish I had made game chat tonight....

Lightning has struck with Jack and I agreeing....don't expect it to strike twice :MusicBigGrin:


You got that right.

Darko rules !!!!

Down with Larry Brown !!!!

Woo hoo !!!!:stirthepot:

Why do you end every sentence with 2 or 3 periods?

You know what? I think it's the time of the month for him...:pound::pound::pound:

Low this is just a point of fact. I'm no longer interesting in arguing about the rule. But if you can find Stoudemire or Diaw "going all Incredible Hulk on the opponent" in your game tape, your powers of imagination are indeed...powerful.

As far as the rule goes, upon further review of my own, the consensus seems to be that the rule is just fine and it's black-and-white quality is actually what makes it easy for the players to understand and also easy to enforce. I figure the guys actually playing are the ones most impacted and they seem to be okay with it.

I hope Phoenix doesn't get eliminated tomorrow. I hope they get a Game 7 to battle it out.

The point I was making was not that Stoudamire specifically went ballistic, but if a rule is black and white, then there is no need to all of a sudden decide we need to make exceptions for players to get to initially react (i.e. run to the altercation) and then "reconsider" and go back. The intention is to stop you from running out there in the first place and not just "hoping" that guys come to their senses before they get involved.

You took my metaphor too literally.

You got that right.

Darko rules !!!!

Down with Larry Brown !!!!

Woo hoo !!!!:stirthepot:


Yup, down with Larry Brown, the last guy to lead Detroit to a 'ship.

Yup, down with Larry Brown, the last guy to lead Detroit to a 'ship.

He may have lead Detroit to a 'ship, but he is not a good person.

:sssh:

He may have lead Detroit to a 'ship, but he is not a good person.

:sssh:

I'd have to agree....I'd happily trade the title for a consistent era of good people.

He may have lead Detroit to a 'ship, but he is not a good person.

:sssh:

I'm not denying that. Davidson said so. LOL.

I still don't believe that Larry Brown led us to ANYTHING.

We were struggling along at .500 WITH LARRY before we traded for Rasheed Wallace. It wasn't until after we acquired Rasheed Wallace that we went 20-6 and made our way through the playoffs. That Pistons team was HUNGRY and RIGHT THERE before LB got here. I don't even thing LB did a great job coaching during that playoff run. He allowed an INFERIOR NJ team to take us to 7 games just because his stubborness and EGO refused to play Okur over Williamson against a WEAK NJ FRONTCOURT.

IMO: We won DESPITE HAVE LB as our coach. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you don't have to agree. Your certainly entitled you whatever you choose to believe. This just happens to be my belief.

I still don't believe that Larry Brown led us to ANYTHING.

We were struggling along at .500 WITH LARRY before we traded for Rasheed Wallace. It wasn't until after we acquired Rasheed Wallace that we went 20-6 and made our way through the playoffs. That Pistons team was HUNGRY and RIGHT THERE before LB got here. I don't even thing LB did a great job coaching during that playoff run. He allowed an INFERIOR NJ team to take us to 7 games just because his stubborness and EGO refused to play Okur over Williamson against a WEAK NJ FRONTCOURT.

IMO: We won DESPITE HAVE LB as our coach. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you don't have to agree. Your certainly entitled you whatever you choose to believe. This just happens to be my belief.

Is there any way to vote a coach out of the Hall of Fame? Larry seems to be getting worse.

Uh, guys, this is the Suns/Spurs thread. Aside from debating LB's contributions to the Spurs back in the Rod Strickland era, I think we should leave Larry out of it.

Uh, guys, this is the Suns/Spurs thread. Aside from debating LB's contributions to the Spurs back in the Rod Strickland era, I think we should leave Larry out of it.

I actually used to really like Rod Strickland. He was a good PG and was pretty adept at breaking down a defense and getting in the lane. Was Vinnie Del Negro there with him as well or was he a few years away?

I still don't believe that Larry Brown led us to ANYTHING.

We were struggling along at .500 WITH LARRY before we traded for Rasheed Wallace. It wasn't until after we acquired Rasheed Wallace that we went 20-6 and made our way through the playoffs. That Pistons team was HUNGRY and RIGHT THERE before LB got here. I don't even thing LB did a great job coaching during that playoff run. He allowed an INFERIOR NJ team to take us to 7 games just because his stubborness and EGO refused to play Okur over Williamson against a WEAK NJ FRONTCOURT.

IMO: We won DESPITE HAVE LB as our coach. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you don't have to agree. Your certainly entitled you whatever you choose to believe. This just happens to be my belief.

Don't forget, he didn't play Darko.

:)

Don't forget, he didn't play Darko.

:)

How could I ever forget that?

It just occurred to me that this series is Bad Boys vs. Showtime. Kinda.

Nash just made a SICK pass to Amare. I'm totally into this game.

Bavetta blows another call.

What a joke.

It's like he's guessing instead of observing. Maybe he needs an eye exam.

Right now, Barbosa couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

End of the third, SA up 14. Series over IMO.

Spurs up 14 after the 3rd. He did blow that one call, but I don't think the officiating's been much of a factor overall here.

It's all so utterly depressing.

but

GO PHOENIX SUNS 2008!!!

I'm pretty pissed off by articles like this one (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2875736), about how this series has an asterisk, it's tainted, etc. It's been a big theme on PTI as well this week. Where the heck were these guys last year when the refs handed Game 5 of the Finals to Miami on a platter? That was SO MUCH WORSE in every way than this, which amounts to people wanting a clear-cut rule changed on the fly by the commissioner's fiat.

I'm pretty pissed off by articles like this one (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2875736), about how this series has an asterisk, it's tainted, etc. It's been a big theme on PTI as well this week. Where the heck were these guys last year when the refs handed Game 5 of the Finals to Miami on a platter? That was SO MUCH WORSE in every way than this, which amounts to people wanting a clear-cut rule changed on the fly by the commissioner's fiat.

Roscoe said earlier that this is Showtime vs. The Bad Boys, and I totally agree. Outside of Detroit, people really loathed the Pistons and their dirty tactics. Personally, I loved it.

Just like the Bad Boys, this style of ball wins games, and during the playoffs, tough teams impose their will on smaller "finesse" teams. I may be one of the few people on this board, but I'm glad the Spurs are kicking a** in the West. If the Pistons and Spurs make it to the finals, it should be a great series. The Pistons are going to have to find their fight without Ben Wallace. Maybe some extended minutes for The Goon Squad?

Not clear why D'Antoni left Nash on the bench so long around the third / fourth quarter break. The comeback only started once he came back in. Surely he could have played more than 38 in the Suns season ending game. Bad mistake.

Maybe some extended minutes for The Goon Squad?

I couldn`t agree more.

What a perfect time for DD and Maxiel to find that midseason form against a team like the Spurs.

One thing is certain, they will not back down. The Spurs would go toe to toe with the Pistons..........

That would be goooooooood!!!!:MusicBigGrin: