ECF Game 3 At Cleveland May 27th, 8:30 PM

TV - TNT


The scene changes to Cleveland as it could very well be the Cavs up 2-0, however, the Pistons are up after two hard fought games at the Palace. Let`s see if some home cooking helps loosen up the Cavs a bit.

Going back to last years playoffs the Pistons have beat the Cavs 7 of the last 8 games.

We are road warriors so I expect the Pistons will grind out at least one game in Cleveland, either game 4 or 6, but I think game 3 goes to the Cavs.

Our halftime speeches have been a godsend these playoffs, but we need to be ahead at the half instead of fighting back in the third.

Before this series started, the benchmarcks were that the Cavs had to score 90 to guarantee a win vs. the Pistons and the Pistons had to hold the Cavs under 90 to guarantee a win. Well the Pistons have done their part with defense and as long as scores like that hold up, the Pistons should prevail.

If you recall, the Pistons beat the Bulls when they held them under 90, but lost the two where they scored over 90.

Wouldn't be surprized if the Pistons played all of these games close. Our shooting seems to have gone south for several players. Our defense shows up when needed. Game 3 goes to the Pistons 88-84.......

Cleveland is going to get a lot of calls. Just wait. Cavs 27-19 after 1....Hopefully the Pistons can grind out the win after that.

LBJ and the Cavs are saying they have the Pistons right where they want them...being down 0-2........................:lie:



NBA.com Long Shots? Cavs Like Chances in Game 3 (http://www.nba.com/nba_news/cavschances_070526.html)

LBJ and the Cavs are saying they have the Pistons right where they want them...being down 0-2........................:lie:



NBA.com Long Shots? Cavs Like Chances in Game 3 (http://www.nba.com/nba_news/cavschances_070526.html)

Yeah, that's where'd I want to be. Down 0-2 to a team that has been in the ECF 5 straight times, the Finals twice and won it all in 2004. Dumbasses....

Anyway, here's to Chauncey taking some shots, Tayshaun and C-Webb finding their shots, and 'Sheed...just playing like 'Sheed! CHEERS! :cheers:

I believe that Detroit is more prepared for game 3 than the cav's. The games were way too close for detroit to take anything for granted. i think they will come out more focused. I think that the Cav's will jump out in the beginning, only to lose cofidence by 2nd quarter's end. The pistons will look for lebron to be more aggressive, but he will be in foul trouble and will have to sit out he 3rd quarter. tay will have his showing in the second quarter and will be the assist leader. Webber will elbow Z in the eye and get fined behind closed doors without a suspension, about 3 dollars and a high 5. Detroit will play more man to man. What else?? Detroit will when by 14pts.

If you recall, the Pistons beat the Bulls when they held them under 90, but lost the two where they scored over 90.


Yes, but the Pistons should not have problems scoring in triple digits. Flip Sr. was brought in to shore up the offense.

I believe that Detroit is more prepared for game 3 than the cav's. The games were way too close for detroit to take anything for granted. i think they will come out more focused. I think that the Cav's will jump out in the beginning, only to lose cofidence by 2nd quarter's end. The pistons will look for lebron to be more aggressive, but he will be in foul trouble and will have to sit out he 3rd quarter. tay will have his showing in the second quarter and will be the assist leader. Webber will elbow Z in the eye and get fined behind closed doors without a suspension, about 3 dollars and a high 5. Detroit will play more man to man. What else?? Detroit will when by 14pts.

I'd love to think this was true and maybe it will be. Unfortunately, to me it has seemed that the only thing that the Pistons take from these unnecessarily close games is something along the lines of: "We won. We love that kind of game. That's where we're comfortable. That's EC playoff basketball. That's our way." (As opposed to something like: "these games were way too close. we are taking them for granted. we need to come out more focused in game 3.")

But i really hope i'm wrong here.

I have a feeling that if the pistons are within 8 points with 1 quater to go they will win this. Look for prince to score 10-15 points and the pistons to score in the 90's. A lil bit more jmax wouldnt hurt :)

Kepping in mind the Cavs avg twice as many O boards @ home than on the road (in the playoffs). As long as we rebound the D glass well this contest should be no more worrisome than the last two. Holding them below 80 will be fine with me.

I dunno. I admit to being confused by the last two games. Alot of times I thought we were playing okay, and the score was close. Then we were playing really well for a spell and the score was still close. Then we played really badly, and the score was even closer and we won by 3.

Also I'm not sure this is the usual Pistons malaise. I'm beginning to wonder whether our team, as a team, not individually is flattening out some. I see the desire for the win, and I see the effort for the win, but what I don't see is the shots falling and the propensity for dominance on the offensive end.

There is a certain staleness setting in, but maybe it just seems that way because I really hate this "grind-it-out-who-can-play-uglier-and-not-lose" style.

This worries me. I sure would like to see a solid performance of our offense before we go into the Finals. If we play 4-7 grind it out games against this team and then try to kick it up another level for the Finals, I don't know. It just worries me.

Where is our team from Games 1 and 2 in the Bulls series? We haven 't seen them for a while, as a team. Yeah Sheed, Rip, JMaz playing well...but as a team. We need our whole team playing at a high level real real sooon.

The Spurs may have gotten creamed last night, but they look better than we do right now and they've had to play better opponents, which makes you sharp. Tired yeah but also sharp. They aren't playing down to anyone, they are playing their game. Let's play our game Detroit!

C'mon Pistons! Show us what you got!!! Show us who's ready to roll right through the Cavs and pick up speed and power as we approach the Finals! Let's go to Work!

We Need Shot Selection and Made Shots! DO IT!!! Go Pistons!

Hopefully, the talented Pistons running on all cylinders show up tonight. All the pressure is on Cleveland. They're in the 2-0 hole, not us. I expect King James to get about 35 tonight but I think he'll take a lot of shots to do it. As my buddy Jim Calhoun will tell ya, rebounding and defense wins games. If they outrebound us by a lot, we lose.

I don`t think the Pistons can afford to get too far behind in this game, then pull out a win.

The enrgy from the crowd will inspire the Cavs, resulting in the refs becoming dazed and confused by the noise.

Creating an atmosphere of total chaos.........hopefully the Pistons will "RISE UP" (borrowing the Cav`s motto for a second) and still get the win!

Webber will elbow Z in the eye and get fined behind closed doors without a suspension, about 3 dollars and a high 5.

hee hee

I hate to say it but I think we are going to get pasted tonight. Cleveland didn't even have a winning road record this year yet they were 30-11 at home. They play a zillion times better at home. Plus they must win game three. Going down 0-3 would be lights out. Their backs are to the wall. It is also time for Cleveland to get some home cooking with the whistles. Detroit had the benefit of the whistles in my opinion and now Cleveland probably will. I don't like that but that seems to be life in the NBA as we see it. Mount Sheed should be erupting tonight. Add to all of that, our Pistons don't like doing thing the easy way, I'm seeing a demolition tonight. Hope I am wrong.

Wow, as I reread this post, is sure sounds depressing. My smiley face was supposed to be down here instead of at the top but I am too stupid to figure out how to put it down here. Smiley face.

With this being a holiday weekend, loaded with our favorite refreshments, AND with The Tigers being on ESPN, and after watching KIll Bill over Two charcoal grilled burgers and 6 glasses of HEFEwiessen, I PREDICT this will be the greatest chat ever and Pistons AND Tigers will win by 5!!!! :pound: LETS GO BABAY!!

I have a feeling that this game will be very different. Someone is going to break out of the scoring funk and since the Pistons have many more options and James is not playoff tested I say its going to be the Pistons walking off with this one.

Pistons play better on the road which I believe negates any advantages the Cavs have at home. Except for a few more calls going James way but that will only further inspire the Pistons.

This game is the coffin game for the Cavs. We win and good night King.

This should be a pretty easy game for us to win...considering they've stolen every gimmick from the Palace. This'll be like a home game.

As long as we rebound the D glass well this contest should be no more worrisome than the last two.

I don't know about you, but game 1 one and 2 were plenty worrisome for me. Both of those games came down to Cavs misses or we lose. We could easily be 1-1 or 0-2 in this series.

Of course a sweep would be awesome, and preferred, but I'd also be happy with a split in Cleveland and a chance to close out the series at home in game 5.

I don't know about you, but game 1 one and 2 were plenty worrisome for me. Both of those games came down to Cavs misses or we lose. We could easily be 1-1 or 0-2 in this series.

Of course a sweep would be awesome, and preferred, but I'd also be happy with a split in Cleveland and a chance to close out the series at home in game 5.

I like US in a close game.

The push-offs LeBron makes going for rebounds are ridiculous.

Detroit hung close but I never got the feeling ever that they'd win this one. Cleveland was due after those first two heartbreakers. Too many turnovers, too many wasted possessions. Rip was horrible. Pretty much took the game off, IMO. It helps to have a superstar and LeBron played well in crucial moments. Not much you can do, I guess. I didn't expect a sweep. Hope the Pistons can avoid losing three in a row like last season. Cleveland has the momentum, but I'm heartened by how well the Pistons competed tonight.

Rip has to become a weapon again. This series can get away from us real fast. Little Daniel Gibson made our guards look like they had cement covering their feet.

I like US in a close game.

So do I, but games 1 and 2 weren't exactly walks in the park.

Cleveland was going to win one game in this series, so this is the one. Really what is the matter with with Chauncey and Rip? They both are off their game and it can't all be defense by Cleveland, they aren't that good. Again Flipper just doesn't play his bench correctly. Flip Murray was a nice move since he at least was active and making shots. Why not more Maxiell and Delfino? They are both high energy and Tay is playing 44 minutes and he's not making many shots in the second half because he has no legs left. So frustrating to watch the Pistons not live up to their potential. This game could have been a blowout and maybe that would have been even better to get the Pistons motivated.

What is it with the Cavs that the Pistons can't seem to figure out? CB flat out is stinking it up in this series. A few 4th qtr heroics aside, his game has been TO prone and shooting is non-existent. The backcourt is just not providing any spark. Not impressed with the Pistons the first 3 games. Can Sheed stop leaving his man open and the defense stop collapsing over every fake?

Just finished watching. It hurts to see Prince, Hamilton and Billups play this weak. Hamilton is simply unable to create his own shot (as we all know), Billups is fairly ineffective except for some 4th quarter heroics and Prince has only one move. ONE FREAKIN' MOVE, THAT'S IT!
Besides, this team is slow. Extremely slow. They're so much fun to watch if they hit their shots and it sucks so extremely if the simply ain't hitting anything, like tonight.
I'm going to bed with some anger

CB and Rip were the escape goats in this one. I would liked to have seen more JMax too, but Dice was finally productive, CWebb was pretty good, and Sheed was still producing, so I don't think it would have made much difference to get JMax in there. Flip Jr was great in the second quarter, and Tay finally got off the schneid a bit, but was still outscored by LeBron by 19. Turnovers and stupid forced shots were a big problem in the second half, as was the undisciplined cheating off the perimeter shooters. On a positive note, the rebounding was good, even for the game. But if the two All-Star guards don't SHOW THE $#^% UP in Game 4, it'll be going back to the Palace 2-2 and with all the pressure on the Pistons.

Billups and Rip looked like they played an OT game last night. Prince misses a wide-open 3 in the Pistons final possetion that counted.

Where was Maxiel? Delfino hits a tough shot in the 2nd quarter and never sees the floor again. Almost like how LB used to bench Okur for taking a long shot. Know that was not case here but Flip should have tried better to find some production off the bench since our all-star backcourt was not getting it done.

Well, knew this one would not be a sweep. Have to get game #4 so this thing does not get ugly.

Another slight positive was that the refs called it pretty even. Aside from a few dicey calls, the Cavs pretty much had to earn it from the floor.

The game was close, but in the end it was La Bron stepping it up and hitting that game winner with about 21 seconds. The Pistons D held him in check in the third, but those 12 in the 4th were huge. The Pistons also let Z get off again and also let Gibson & Gooden beat them. Cavs finished with 49% shooting.

On the Piston side, Webber and Prince provided their average contributions, but Rip and CB didn't appear to get on the plane and fly over to Cleveland. Sheed who was big in the 4th in games 1 & 2 only scored a FT in this one.

Overall, the Pistons scoring and offense is still off due to the numerous turnovers (15). Still it wasn't a blowout as some had predicted. The Pistons won the third but didn't take an opportunity to take control of the game in the third when Labron was shut down. Also they didn't take advantage of the bonus when they could have with 6 mins left in the game. In other words, they were not aggressive enough when they could have stolen this one. Put some blame on Flip sr too for leaving the first half hero of game 2 on the bench...I mean Jmax got on 2.5 mins....why wasn't he in there to begin the 4th?

I don't get into chat very often, but I decided to stop in tonight for the 4th quarter. I thought I'd let off a bit of steam about some of the bogus calls we were getting. My wife was sleeping and normally she gets the brunt of my venting. She's even less sympathetic to my ramblings when I wake her up.

But boy, was I disappointed in the negativity and pessimism in there. I was more upset about by the chat than I was by the game! People were giving up on the team half way through the 4th Q.

Did I like the way the team was playing tonight? No

But did I think that it was "over" with 5,4,3,2 minutes left, down 2,4,6,8 points? No.

I just had to get that off my chest. I think next time I'll just wake up my wife.

Chat has seemed to get that way, Jammertime. When the Pistons struggle, people either get very negative or just bail. The Pistons can certainly frustrate us at times, but all teams go through their ups and downs.

I don't know, it seemed like a mostly realistic assessment tonight. The Pistons made a nice comeback to give themselves a chance to steal it late, but LeBron hit another superstar shot to put it away. That can happen when you're playing from behind against a team with a player like that. And there's nothing to say but negative things about the way Rip and CB were playing.

The Pistons can certainly frustrate us at times, but all teams go through their ups and downs.

Bill its been 3 straight games and the Pistons still can't find their rhythm. They collectively look awful on the offensive side of the ball. Missed bunnies, TO's, dangerous passes etc. Maybe they don't know the next step is the Finals.

Cleveland plan on defense: Take the ball out of Billips hands. He is slow to pass out of doubles. Harass him with hands when he is in the lane. After game 1, make Rip into a passer. Result: no flow or effective adjustment. Our bigs score more. We let Prince handle the ball more. But Prince has been making the same kind of turnovers as Billips and Rip.

So far, our adjustments-- like letting the ball come back to Billips on the side, have not been good enough. The Murray stint was not surprising as many of us have been calling for a penetrator. Strangely, Cleveland is not a great defensive team from the point of view of speed or atleticism.

As bad as the Cavs offense is, they are getting some looks as a result of ball movement. Our offense has been a series of one on one counters. Only Sheed and Webber made some noise.Tay hit a few shots so we posted him up out of a flow. You go at Z and get fouls on him like Webber did. Our offense is trying to exploit mismatches here and there. It is disjointed.

All three games (except game 2--third quarter) they have dictated play.

Dyss is overmatched against Z. I would prefer Davis.

We have to play with a much more frantic defense. We have to be way smarter on offense and with more confidence, ball movement, aggresiveness and purpose.

Yeah in Chat, most bail if the Pistons get behind by double digits or a comeback seems impossible. Others hang in there to the end and will be critical on some posts, and hopeful on others. With the closeness of the last two games, some thought it was over when the Cavs went up 84-76. In essence it was over since the Pistons never got to 84.

If you are watching game at home by yourself or with your disinterested spouse, then Chat is the place to vent and criticize all the way to the end.!!:swear2::gaah:

One thing I noticed is that when Gibson defended Tay, he was quick enough to get in and poke some balls away. Reminds me of how DWade played him in the past. Tay needs to hold that ball away from the defender, which he normally does.

I kind of expected a flurry by the Cavs, but it's still a one man show. The others finally got some points is all. The big hurt was Rip's lack of offense. 7 points?? He gets his usual and it's no contest.

Where the hell was 'Sheed in the 4th?

This thing WILL NOT go back to the Detroit City tied. Uh-uh. No way.

Thanks to the guys who watched Chat tonight. I'm not sure who it was but I'm assuming D4E was a key player for PF. :)

Yeah it gets negative and folks are entitled to that. I got some crap last game for arguing against it, which I suppose goes with the territory. It's a fine line between being a fan and being the admin.

It's usually that the negativity drowns out positivity and that makes it hard to read and watch at the same time. Personally, I need a break because my one reward all year is getting to enjoy some playoff basketball.

Wasn't a poorly played game by the Pistons as a whole. Basically Billups and Hamilton let us down. I thought Flip had a lot of guts to sit Billups for Flip Murray. I almost wish he had done that more in the second half.

Hamilton and Billups have a synergy. When you disrupt Hamilton, Billups can still have a good game but if you disrupt Billups, Hamilton really can't get off.

Some poor decisions down the stretch hurt us. It would have been nice to run some more pick and pops for Dyess and Wallace, but instead we opted for quick shot opportunities.

Daniel Gibson outplayed Billups. Chauncey's pretty humble on the podium tonight. That's good because the Mr. Big MVP personality sucks.

We need to get Tay back to missing 8 or 9 shots a game so he can defend LeBron. We simply weren't physical enough and didn't make Lebron earn his points at the line with his suspect shooting.

I still think we can gut this out with Billups sucking, but it won't be pretty, so brace yourself, say a prayer to your deity of choice and turn down the TNT announcers because Doug Collins pretty much had announcer love making with LeBron for most of the game and it was really icky.

Who woulda guessed we would get 3 straight well officiated games? I still think Bavetta needs to retire. When Charles Barkley beats you in a footrace and you can't see a foot out of bounds when you stare at it....

I was going to start a separate thread to unload on Saunders but I'll keep it on this thread. What does Flip Saunders bring? This team still scores in the high 70s, low 80s in the playoffs. Wasn't this guy supposed to bring in a great offense to usher the Pistons into the new NBA? What offensive adjustments have been made in this series? It's like watching the Carlisle- and Brown-coached teams. Basically, what Saunders brings is more low percentage shots. Sometimes, I cannot tell the difference between the current team and the LB teams.

Sometimes, I cannot tell the difference between the current team and the LB teams.
lol. Man, if you told people they would get the same stuff from a Flip team that they got from an LB team, there would be partying downtown outside Comerica!!! :)

lol. Man, if you told people they would get the same stuff from a Flip team that they got from an LB team, there would be partying downtown outside Comerica!!! :)

I liked LB's emphasis on rebounding and defense, but his teams were difficult to watch from an offensive standpoint, save the 2004 Finals. This team relies too much on 3s in crucial moments. Tonight was a prime example. The Pistons, in my view, have morphed back into those LB teams, but without Ben Wallace. Any personality that Flip Sr. has tried to stamp on this team has been obscured.

Gazoo,

Our adjustments have been pretty poor. And if we don't have plans for a team that goes after Billips, why not? What did we expect?

Our bigs have scored more as a result of the harassment of Billips and Rip. We let Tay handle the ball and he made the same turnovers this series. Sometimes the ball comes back to Billips. Not a bad idea but no flow from it so far. We usually exploit one on one match ups. But out of any flow, this is not a real strategy.

As bad as the Cavs offense is, they actually pass the ball around off of Le Bron.

Still, the main reason we lost is that we lost the defensive intensity.

lol. Man, if you told people they would get the same stuff from a Flip team that they got from an LB team, there would be partying downtown outside Comerica!!! :)

Speaking of Comerica...only the Cleveland Indian players partied there this weekend with their sweep of the Tigers and then they stayed in the locker room to see their city mates take one from the Pistons....

I thought that 3 by Tayshaun in one of the last (or the last, I already forgot 'cause my memory is %%%%) possessions was a good shot. I just wish it was 'Sheed who took it.

I thought that 3 by Tayshaun in one of the last (or the last, I already forgot 'cause my memory is %%%%) possessions was a good shot. I just wish it was 'Sheed who took it.

Lets see, Pistons were down by 4 with 30 some sec's left when Tay missed his 3. Then James hit that tough shot to put them up by 6.

Just did not execute down the stretch tonight.

Couple of things. Overall the games have been called fairly. You know James will get his calls but it has not been overlly blatant.

Secondly we complain about the attention James gets but the media has been trying to sell the Pistons and the guys have not been showing up. They were all over Rip when he had a good 1st half in game 1. Mentioned serval times Sheed and his great play. They especially want to prop up Billups and are all over it when he hits a shot in the 4th. Other than Sheed the starters are not putting together complete games.

Ok, lots of comments here on both boards. Lots of ways to write the game up. In the end, Cleveland made shots. A fade-a-way triple from Bron. Big Z hit a fairly long one. Gibson connected. Gooden too. All in crunch time. The Pistons were storming back as per normal, but Cleveland weathered the storm this time. Now, can they do it two games in a row?

On a personal note, this means I am going to game 5. I look forward to watching us close Cleveland out this Thursday night.

Unbelievable. No assists and practically no points from either Rip or Billups in the first half. For the game, our front line came up huge, with at least 15 points each from Webber, Sheed, and Tay. But Webber I liked the most cause he kept going inside. Him picking up his 4th foul early in the 3rd quarter may have sidetracked out usual 3rd quarter surge for a moment, although we did manage a 12-2 run starting about midway into that quarter.

Unfortunately, Dyess made a few outside shots. Again, unless he makes like 6 or 7 of those, it does nothing but hurt the team. We need inside play, not jumpshots.

Typical Flip Saunders. Maxiell gets 15 points in a game, so gets shutout of the rotation in this one. I don't like that. His defensive energy was sorely missed.

Flip Murray did ok. Got some points, gave up some too. Still, he was giving Billups a good long rest. Indeed, since things were going ok, why did Flip bring Billups back for 90 seconds to end the 1st half. And Tay too. Hey, let them sit and relax a bit. 90 seconds ain't going to decide the game.

Dale Davis is another guy missing lately-against Big Z, the guy Saunders said he would get minutes against. No Hunter-but I won't say much negative about that.

Great to see Tay hit the one triple. Not great to see him not getting any rest in the 2nd half. Billups too saw no rest in that 2nd half. Basically, our rotations are nowhere. Flip might have a plan, but I doubt he can remember it during the game whatever that plan might be.

The Pistons did have a darn good defensive stretch in the 2nd half, with Murray in the game. We all hate triples, but when Sheed hit two straight followed by the one from Billups, it sure looked nice. Yes, I love for the ball to go inside, but triples sure can help too, especially with plays designed to get nice wide open ones.

It is surprising what occurred between the halves. In the first half, Murray plays for Billups, and gets some scoring for us. Instead of going back to this to give Billups some rest, now Murray comes in the game for Rip. What, trying to find something that won't work? Does make you wonder. Things don't have to go perfect, but if they can go halfway right, then give your starters at least a bit of a rest to start the 4th. In this one, Saunders failed to rest his starters, and indeed had them all back out on the floor with 8 minutes to go in the game. Kind of early. Did they have it in them-they did execute offensively. But just maybe with a bit more energy left in the tank they could have made those shots a bit harder to make for Cleveland. Or Maxiell could have simply played. His long arms and quickness would have surely made Cleveland miss a couple of those shots. GO PISTONS!!!!!PS-Nice shot by Delfino off that fancy move of his.

Unbelievable. No assists and practically no points from either Rip or Billups in the first half.
Flip Murray did ok. Got some points, gave up some too. Still, he was giving Billups a good long rest. Indeed, since things were going ok, why did Flip bring Billups back for 90 seconds to end the 1st half. And Tay too. Hey, let them sit and relax a bit. 90 seconds ain't going to decide the game.
Flip had 3 assists! :)

Flip had 3 assists! :)

:doh:
Please refer to post #19 in this thread. http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/6665-unleash-flip-murray-2.html#post91306

Scoopin' the papers...

Postgame press conference transcripts are up here
http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/6672-det-cle-game-3-post-game-pressers.html

It's all in the numbers....Billups has hit 13 pts in each game scoring wise, but is averaging 4.7 assists and a whopping 5.7 turnovers in this series. To many three ball attempts by him tonight. (2-8) He has got to find away to penetrate and get to the line for at least 10 attempts a game. Turnovers may have been the key tonight despite the Kings accomplishments. A superstar stats like 32-9-9. There was a TV stat that indicated that when La Bron has scored 20+ they were 8-0, I think (now 9-0) Somehow or another we have to find away to defeat that stat even if he exceeds it and the Cavs two more times .

In this game, the stats were almost even. Both teams got off 67 shots, but the Cavs made 3 more than we did. Rebounding was even and the 3 ball shooting and Ft shooting was just about even. The difference could have been the TO's as they had 11 and we had 15. We even one or two buckets taken away due to TO"s.

I hope the Pistons know now that the Cavs are in this partyfor real and we got to get the two starting guards on track and get this offense in gear. These games are to close for comfort and old fashion beating by the Pistons of 10+ points or more in game 4 should setup a confidence win at home in game five. Like Roscoe said if CB is really off, then Rip seems to follow suit, so those two need to get on the same page as the two of them should be able to offset Mr. James.

why was rip on the court at all during the 4th?? why isn't flip murray getting more minutes? why isn't jmax getting more minutes? why isn't fino getting more minutes? what good is a bench if you don't go to them when they are outplaying the starters. flip needs to get fired if we lose any more games in this series.

why was rip on the court at all during the 4th?? why isn't flip murray getting more minutes? why isn't jmax getting more minutes? why isn't fino getting more minutes? what good is a bench if you don't go to them when they are outplaying the starters. flip needs to get fired if we lose any more games in this series.

I agree with you.

It's funny how the commentators have been singing Flip's praises for playing and developing his bench all post season.

Although I think he has improved from last year, he still has a long way to go in trusting and utilizing his bench.

There are still tonnes of examples of times he has screwed up, IMO. Several of them have already been posted (by Lee maybe? too tired/lazy to go back and check). Bringing Tay and CB back in at the end of the 2nd, not enough (any) rest for most of the starters in the 2nd half, little burn from J-Max after a MONSTER performance in game 3, etc.

Man reading some posts from some of you guys is hilarious. This post may sound a bit pretentious, and somewhat self righteous as if I am some all knowing basketball God, but lemme chime in anyway, top reasons for tonights loss:

Chauncey Billups. No rhythm, no control, extremely poor play.
Rip, again, no rhythm, no control, and is not moving without the ball everytime down court. We should keep Rip moving even on plays that are not designed for him, all those bumps could cause switches and favorable matchups.
Chris Webber's Defense down the stretch in the fourth. 'Bron has trouble on the P&R when Sheed is matced up in the play, but when it's Webber-it's almost too easy, he should have sat Webb down the stretch, but Webb was our most productive offensive player in the fourth- CATCH 22, or is it 23.
NOT RESPECTING DANIEL GIBSON. Gibson is having an impact on this series, much like Tay 5 years ago. IT's NOT A FLUKE!!!!!!!! He's doing a heck of a job on defense, he's not afraid to take the big shot, and dammit he's hitting them. I'm not saying that he's a player we have to key in on, but it's obvious that we're not respecting his court presence. When Billups backs down Gibson, the rook is flat out shutting him down, and when Tay tried it, same result. The reason is that they think the rook is just getting lucky blocks and strips, NO!!! He has their number, give him some respect so we can score on him.Some of y'all are moanin and groanin about a bunch of crap. Max gettin in this game would not have won it, our bigs delivered tonight (sans Webber's P&R D down the stretch.), we didn't need the Brahma. Murray gave great mins, Delfino played well. But Neither Murray or Delfino playing more mins tonight would have won this game; the only way we win this game is if someway/somehow Rip and BigHead would have gotten thier isht together and delivered, they didn't and we lost-end of story. Can SanAnton win with Parker and Ginobli TOTALLY SUCKING, can Utah win if Deron Williams and Boozer TOTALLY SUCK.....NO!!!!!!! If Billups and Hamilton don't figure out that the playoffs have indeed started and they are in the ECF (like Rasheed has- WOW the irony, be more focused like Sheed:pound: ) Then this team will not be playing for the big prize in JUNE. Rip and Chauncey have been very unfocused, undiscliplined and unreliable since the playoffs started, Sheed and Tay have delivered from day one with total focus, comittment and energy, problem now is that Tay has his hands full guarding LeBron and can't deliver 18-22ppg, the backcourt needs to finally step it up.

KGREG,

I couldn't agree more. Batman and Robin combined for a total of 2 points in the first half. 2 points! These two MUST snap out of it and deliver.

The other big problem I notice with the offense is a serious lack of movement. I can't really blame one player; it seems to me that when one player has the ball, the rest of the guys watch him. Where is the help or the cutter on the double team?

Even with horrible play from our superstar guards, the Pistons took 2, and lost a close one. As soon as they show up, this series should be over.

^

Was Webb's PnR defense part of the reason Lebron scored 12 pointsor was he just on fire (didn't watch the game) b/c if so J-Max definately would've helped out; even Dice being in in the 4th would've been better. This series is so low scoring, and so close that it seems like every defensive stop/shot is a HUGE deal.

I know Tay sprained his ankle in the 1st so maybe that's why Lebron exploded. He still played 44 minutes. Gotta love Flip. :rolleyes1:

Hope this isn't a lingering problem.

I think Flip Sr. had a tough time finding minutes for JMax in game 3 because CWebb, Sheed and Dyess all played pretty well in their first half minutes. JMax only got into game 2 because Sheed picked up 2 quick fouls and Dyess got cracked in the nose soon afterwards. I think Flip Sr. may have been a bit too cautious with JMax's minutes since this was not a home game and because the main three guys were all playing pretty well.

And, as KGREG pointed out, CWebb was the best offensive player for the Pistons early on in the 4th quarter, aggressively taking the ball to the basket and earning free throws. His defense was probably lacking on the P&R (I couldn't watch the game, either), but considering that JMax was 1-6 from the foul line the previous game, if the Cavs were just going to foul guys going to the basket, there was a better than average chance that JMax wouldn't have been able to fully capitalize on all those opportunities.

Delfino definitely should've gotten a little run at the end of the 3rd quarter/beginning of the 4th to give Tay some rest for the last 8 minutes of the game.

Dear Pistons,

Please keep moving yourselves and the ball on offense. When you look at the tape, you'll agree, I think, that you get much easier shots when you do this. Plus, the movement on offense seems often to translate to movement on defense. Plus, when you aren't throwing up early out of rhythm jump shots there are fewer long rebounds that allow Cleveland to get down court before you've set up your defense.

It's okay to set up for isolation post-ups, and even for the guys posting up to dribble himself into position. But please, the other four guys, can you not just stand around, can you at least pretend to make a cut or something, or even switch places around the perimeter. thanks.

me


oh, and pass this on to Chauncey and Rip. I don't know where they are.

The other big problem I notice with the offense is a serious lack of movement. I can't really blame one player; it seems to me that when one player has the ball, the rest of the guys watch him. Where is the help or the cutter on the double team?



BINGO.

I said the same thing even a couple of games in the Bulls series. The lack of player/ball movement is what`s killing us.

Please, please nobody say somebody is fatigued, that is a bunch of BS.

BINGO.

I said the same thing even a couple of games in the Bulls series. The lack of player/ball movement is what`s killing us.

Please, please nobody say somebody is fatigued, that us a bunch of BS.

nobody is fatigued. and i can't explain this problem, which seems to me to be mostly mental since the cavs can't physically keep you from moving without the ball. so it seems to me to be something along the lines of a brain fart, a kind of forgetting, even, dare i say, a mild form of panic. one of the things about moving without the ball and about moving the ball when you have it is that it requires a certain trust that even though you aren't individually controlling the play, the process of movement and ball movement, will add up to something that is good for the team, somewhere during the possession. now and then, sure, a good shot will just not fall or a pass might go astray or get dropped or what have you. but most of the time, something good is going to happen. so i start to wonder if at those times the pistons, who are all decent offensive players (I mean, decent enough to be tempted by the belief that they can take their guy and get the bucket we need), lose that trust, especially if Cleveland starts to heat up or we have a couple of bad luck possessions.

Some of y'all are moanin and groanin about a bunch of crap. Max gettin in this game would not have won it, our bigs delivered tonight (sans Webber's P&R D down the stretch.), we didn't need the Brahma.

jmax has turned around several playoff games this year. he is an impact player. i don't think you can simply say that not playing him wouldn't have helped win it. he can defend better than webber and he's super aggressive on the offensive boards. gooden wouldn't have been busting jump shots in his face.

Murray gave great mins, Delfino played well. But Neither Murray or Delfino playing more mins tonight would have won this game; the only way we win this game is if someway/somehow Rip and BigHead would have gotten thier isht together and delivered, they didn't and we lost-end of story. Can SanAnton win with Parker and Ginobli TOTALLY SUCKING, can Utah win if Deron Williams and Boozer TOTALLY SUCK.....NO!!!!!!!
flip murray came in and did what our other guards could not. he went to the hole strong and finished. flip murray put pressure on thier defense. i disagree that him playing more wouldn't have helped us win tonight. i think flip playing instead of chauncey turning it over and rip bricking would have helped us win. delfino hit his first shot on a good move on lebron yet he gets no more minutes. we have to reward our bench we have to play the players that are doing well on the court. the strategy of playing the starters no matter how well they are playing is why we are losing. we aren't built like san antonio or utah we can win without several of our players having good games. i mean who besides rasheed and jmax have had good games??

nobody is fatigued. and i can't explain this problem, which seems to me to be mostly mental since the cavs can't physically keep you from moving without the ball. so it seems to me to be something along the lines of a brain fart, a kind of forgetting, even, dare i say, a mild form of panic. one of the things about moving without the ball and about moving the ball when you have it is that it requires a certain trust that even though you aren't individually controlling the play, the process of movement and ball movement, will add up to something that is good for the team, somewhere during the possession. now and then, sure, a good shot will just not fall or a pass might go astray or get dropped or what have you. but most of the time, something good is going to happen. so i start to wonder if at those times the pistons, who are all decent offensive players (I mean, decent enough to be tempted by the belief that they can take their guy and get the bucket we need), lose that trust, especially if Cleveland starts to heat up or we have a couple of bad luck possessions.

I hear you Professor.

However, how can something that always worked so well in the past lack trust now? I mean, we haven`t even tried to utilize the crisp ball movement and cutting that made our offense look so potent and effecient.

What amazes me is that a veteran, an All Star, Finals MVP player like Billups, can be so incompetent in 3 straight games!

Let a rookie, yes a rookie out play him, and the kicker - in a contract year, in the ECF!!!!

Simply unbelievable.......

Please, please nobody say somebody is fatigued, that us a bunch of BS.
I dunno about the Pistons, but I am feeling pretty fatigued this morning.

I hear you Professor.

However, how can something that always worked so well in the past lack trust now? I mean, we haven`t even tried to utilize the crisp ball movement and cutting that made our offense look so potent and effecient.


Well, I feel like I have seen some of that movement, sporadically, and it always seems to lead to a little run, an admittedly subjectively gauged increased "smoothness", and upped intensity on defense (see 3rd quarters in this series, games 1 and 2 in chicago, 2nd half of game 3 in chicago) and then here and there in other games.

I am very worried about rip and cbill our bigs are totally outplaying our allstar guards.fmurray and cdelf gave some good minutes but all in all lebron finally decided to make some superstar plays last night and made some pretty ridiculous 3 balls which i really dont expect him to keep making...... but if he does we could be in trouble.That being said we won 2 games basically being carried by the bench and sheed and lost game 3 cus bron bron decided to have a dwade like performance in the 4th I expect us to win game 4 and close it out at home

Well, I feel like I have seen some of that movement, sporadically, and it always seems to lead to a little run, an admittedly subjectively gauged increased "smoothness", and upped intensity on defense (see 3rd quarters in this series, games 1 and 2 in chicago, 2nd half of game 3 in chicago) and then here and there in other games.

Agreed.

I guess the key is to consitently move the ball and move without the ball. It is obvious the Pistons are at their best when this happens.

And there is nothing like making a few easy buckets to increase that intensity on defense.

Let`s be honest, if Flip sticks with Billups for an extended amount of time, quick, timely passes and cutting to the hoop will be the only way for the Pistons to be successful when CB is on the floor.

Where the hell was 'Sheed in the 4th?

This thing WILL NOT go back to the Detroit City tied. Uh-uh. No way.

Out of all of the analysis of how our guards have underperformed, lack of ball movement, and excessive iso's in game 3, this quote right here is the best analysis of them all. WE DO NOT NEED TO PANIC, NO ONE ANTICIPATED THIS SERIES WOULD BE A SWEEP. CLEVLEAND GOT THEIR WIN OUT OF DESPERTATION AND WE WILL TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS ON TUESDAY. GUARANSHEED

Right now, this team is totally out of sync. It is all mental. For some reason, they seem to be carrying this baggage from last year when facing this team. They never recovered over their "choke" play from last year and promptly did a no-show against Miami.

This mental lapse is being led by CB...switching over (with no discernible pattern) to Tay, Dice, and now Rip. I don't think that any person who has watched the pistons this year, can be feeling good about the inconsistency shown, especially at home.

To win it all, everyone must crash the boards!!!! I mean crashing on every play. You have to force action upon yourself and this is one way of involving, dissemination, and creating energetic associations. I want to know why Flip Murray is not getting Bonzi-type offensive rebounds? He can easily get 5-7 every game.

If this group can not bring it, then bring in JMAX, Delfino, Murray, Naz, Amur and anyone else.

Here is standard example and I will pick on Flip Murray (one of my favorite players who is mentally sloppy in showing his huge upside). Why does he (along with the wing players, plus CB) just float around the long-wings when he follows through a set play? Is this in the playbook? Why does he actually lag behind CB when he is bringing up the ball. Is this in the playbook? Why does he not use his speed and agility around the basket (slashing down the lane) when the big men on the wings get the ball and the paint is continuously open? There is absolutely no slashing from anyone. Amazing!

What-in-the-world are the Assistants getting paid for? They should be knocking some heads together. If we don't have any leadership (and we don't have a strong go-to leader) who can show his bicep to another teammate, then we better start getting it from someone from the bench.

Without a whole lot of recent luck, we could be 0-3! Hello, anyone out there?

Right now, this team is totally out of sync. It is all mental. For some reason, they seem to be carrying this baggage from last year when facing this team. They never recovered over their "choke" play from last year and promptly did a no-show against Miami.

This mental lapse is being led by CB...switching over (with no discernible pattern) to Tay, Dice, and now Rip. I don't think that any person who has watched the pistons this year, can be feeling good about the inconsistency shown, especially at home.

To win it all, everyone must crash the boards!!!! I mean crashing on every play. You have to force action upon yourself and this is one way of involving, dissemination, and creating energetic associations. I want to know why Flip Murray is not getting Bonzi-type offensive rebounds? He can easily get 5-7 every game.

If this group can not bring it, then bring in JMAX, Delfino, Murray, Naz, Amur and anyone else.

Here is standard example and I will pick on Flip Murray (one of my favorite players who is mentally sloppy in showing his huge upside). Why does he (along with the wing players, plus CB) just float around the long-wings when he follows through a set play? Is this in the playbook? Why does he actually lag behind CB when he is bringing up the ball. Is this in the playbook? Why does he not use his speed and agility around the basket (slashing down the lane) when the big men on the wings get the ball and the paint is continuously open? There is absolutely no slashing from anyone. Amazing!

What-in-the-world are the Assistants getting paid for? They should be knocking some heads together. If we don't have any leadership (and we don't have a strong go-to leader) who can show his bicep to another teammate, then we better start getting it from someone from the bench.

Without a whole lot of recent luck, we could be 0-3! Hello, anyone out there?
Pass I understand exactly what you saying. However, it is not luck if you have not played well in 2 games straight but out executed the other team down the stretch in both games to come out victorious. Luck has nothing to do with it, although we did not play well we did WIN both games at home, not 1 but both. The team is a little out of sync right now but we must remind ourselves that we are up 2-1 and we still have homecourt advantage. I dont think anyone here anticipated a sweep over cleveland. We will play better tonite go up 3-1 and take care of business on Thurs. We have only lost 3 games in these playoffs and our execution in games late has been fantastic. Give these guys a chance to regroup and prove us wrong in our pessimistic thinking. We are not down 2-1, we are up 2-1. If we happen to lose we still have homecourt so the series is still in our favor. Detroit will bouce back we almost always do. Take it easy guys it was just one game. We need to look at the big picture.