ECF Game 4 May 29th At Cleveland 8:00 PM

TV - TNT


The Pistons experienced their game 3 woes and allowed the Cavs to take this game. Billups needs to show up in game 4 or the Cavs may come back to the Palace 2-2 feeling giddy and confident as can be.

If the Pistons lose Game 4, Sheed might look like this:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8020/bildecy3.jpg

By Steve Kerr
Monday, May 28, 2007 1:27 am EDT
CLEVELAND -- One bad game is a fluke. Two bad ones is a trend. Three in a row? It's a reality.
And with that said, I think it's safe to say that Chauncey Billups (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3174/) -- for whatever reason -- does not match up well against the Cleveland Cavaliers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cle/).



Detroit's misfiring Piston - NBA Experts Blog - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/Detroit-s-misfiring-Piston;_ylt=Aj6Ghv_WYaP4o6uxT7s.SBI5nYcB?urn=nba,3 4492)

By Steve Kerr
Monday, May 28, 2007 1:27 am EDT
CLEVELAND -- One bad game is a fluke. Two bad ones is a trend. Three in a row? It's a reality.
And with that said, I think it's safe to say that Chauncey Billups (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3174/) -- for whatever reason -- does not match up well against the Cleveland Cavaliers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cle/).



Detroit's misfiring Piston - NBA Experts Blog - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/Detroit-s-misfiring-Piston;_ylt=Aj6Ghv_WYaP4o6uxT7s.SBI5nYcB?urn=nba,3 4492)

I completely agree. Three games is not a slump, it's good defense from the Cavs. Question is: can Billups, Saunders, Harper and Porter figure out the adjustments they need to make to get Chauncey (and Rip) back in the game?

I completely agree. Three games is not a slump, it's good defense from the Cavs. Question is: can Billups, Saunders, Harper and Porter figure out the adjustments they need to make to get Chauncey (and Rip) back in the game?

i agree, it is good defense. this may seem too simplistic (or obvious), but one thing i've noticed is that chauncey's attempting too many tricky passes (again, against pretty good defense; see for example, a bounce pass from the top of the key to the far corner that Rip couldn't get a handle on). i doubt my h.s. experience as a point guard 20 years ago has too much relevance, but back then when i was having a tough game, it helped me settle down to just sit back and make some really simple passes, just to get me back into a groove. come to think of it, that's something that always helps me whenever i'm struggling in life: get in a hole, flail and try something complex/heroic to get out of it, fail, and then be forced back to simple basics.

any takers for that theory?

any takers for that theory?
I'll buy that. Less is more. It's not like Chauncey was a flashy passer to begin with.

Hughes doubtful for game 4
RealGM: Wiretap Archives: Hughes Doubtful For Game 4 (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46268/20070528/hughes_doubtful_for_game_4/)

Chauncey is going to break out of his slump. I am hoping for the Pistons to finally fire on all cylinders though. Webber had a heck of a game yesterday, but no one else stepped up. If Chauncey does good or Chauncey does bad the whole team has to step up.

The Professor writes good stuff. I fully expect the Pistons to jump out to a double digit lead, but win a close one. Billups will not be one of the top two Pistons for the game...........

Another article on Hughes' injury.

ESPN.com: Cavs' Hughes likely out Game 4 with foot injury (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2884926)

Another article on Hughes' injury.

ESPN.com: Cavs' Hughes likely out Game 4 with foot injury (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2884926)


So who is starting in Hughes spot?

Probably Snow. It doesn`t matter because Billups seems to be having trouble irregardless of which Cav is guarding him.

So who is starting in Hughes spot?

Probably Snow. It doesn`t matter because Billups seems to be having trouble irregardless of which Cav is guarding him.

What about Gibson?

What about Gibson?


I thought about him.

I wonder if Brown has enough confidence in the rookie to start him.

If the Pistons lose Game 4, Sheed might look like this:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8020/bildecy3.jpg

Perhaps my favorite sports picture ever. :pound:

What about Gibson?

Don't give him uncontested 3's and he can't/won't hurt you.

From MLive:

Jim O' Brien, former coach of the Philadelphia 76ers has a unique theory about why the Pistons perimeter stars are struggling on offense against the Cavs. This is an ESPN Insider blog, so I'm only going to quote one paragraph and sum the rest.
May 28, ESPN.com: (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=nba) I reported in my blog some time back that Chris Webber made what I consider one of the most startling comments I have ever heard. Shortly after we traded for him when I coached Philadelphia I was discussing our playbook with him. One play had Kyle Korver coming from under the basket and our power forward (Webber) screening for him on the box and posting up for a low-post opportunity. Webber looked at me and very politely said, "Coach, I don't do the low-post thing anymore." His point was that at that stage of his career he was best utilized at the elbow with the ball in his hands. If everyone moved when he had the ball he would hit cutters if they were open for a layup or an open jumper.O' Brien goes on to say that Flip Saunders knows Webber still has skills down in the low post despite his resistance to play down low in the recent past, so he's trying to force him to play there with mixed results. The problem is this eliminates post up opportunities for Detroit's talented perimeter players because Webber is clogging up the lane. It always hinders Webber's most important skill, ball movement, because that skill is maximized on the elbow, where Webber is most comfortable.
If you have ESPN Insider I high recommend reading the entire blog entry. I'm not making the decision that O'Brien is right, but it's excellent analysis from a former head coach, especially considering he coached Webber for a short time in Philly.

From MLive:

Jim O' Brien, former coach of the Philadelphia 76ers has a unique theory about why the Pistons perimeter stars are struggling on offense against the Cavs. This is an ESPN Insider blog, so I'm only going to quote one paragraph and sum the rest.May 28, ESPN.com: (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=nba) I reported in my blog some time back that Chris Webber made what I consider one of the most startling comments I have ever heard. Shortly after we traded for him when I coached Philadelphia I was discussing our playbook with him. One play had Kyle Korver coming from under the basket and our power forward (Webber) screening for him on the box and posting up for a low-post opportunity. Webber looked at me and very politely said, "Coach, I don't do the low-post thing anymore." His point was that at that stage of his career he was best utilized at the elbow with the ball in his hands. If everyone moved when he had the ball he would hit cutters if they were open for a layup or an open jumper.O' Brien goes on to say that Flip Saunders knows Webber still has skills down in the low post despite his resistance to play down low in the recent past, so he's trying to force him to play there with mixed results. The problem is this eliminates post up opportunities for Detroit's talented perimeter players because Webber is clogging up the lane. It always hinders Webber's most important skill, ball movement, because that skill is maximized on the elbow, where Webber is most comfortable.
If you have ESPN Insider I high recommend reading the entire blog entry. I'm not making the decision that O'Brien is right, but it's excellent analysis from a former head coach, especially considering he coached Webber for a short time in Philly.

You would think the guy would look at Flip and politely say:

"Coach, I will do whatever you ask including running through a forest fire wearing gasoline soaked drawers if thats what it takes to get a championship ring."

i'll take the blame for the Game 3 loss. i was in florida instead of michigan watching the game, and that obviously had a negative effect on the team.

I'm not sure if the NBA wants a depleted Cleveland team to get slaughtered in the Finals by Tim Duncan.

Therefore, I don't think there will be any unexplained forces holding us back tonight.

i'll take the blame for the Game 3 loss. i was in florida instead of michigan watching the game, and that obviously had a negative effect on the team.

Oh man, I was in Florida on May 15th when they lost to the Bulls. Quick, everyone out of Florida.

If the Pistons lose Game 4, Sheed might look like this:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8020/bildecy3.jpg



This reminds me of a funny story. I was dancing at this club, see. and they told this big, 290 lbs Bertha to "back that thang up!" Well u can imagine my reaction when she........

WDFN is saying that LBJ is already at the arena taking shots on the floor.

WDFN is saying that LBJ is already at the arena taking shots on the floor.

I wonder if Varejao is there early too, getting in extra flopping practice.

The Low's favorite player, Eric Snow is also there, assaulting a tackling dummy with a bevy of eye gouges, knee kicks and trash talk.

WDFN is saying that LBJ is already at the arena taking shots on the floor.

WOSHQ is saying that LBJ can go to :icon_evil: ! Tonight's stats:

MP FG FT REB AST PTS.
LBJ 44 7-22 7-10 7 5 22
YELLOW 26 4-8 0-0 7 1 8
Zzzzz 38 6-14 5-6 11 2 17
PRETTY 31 5-11 2-2 2 4 14
PAVOBYCH 37 4-12 5-7 2 2 14
BENCH 3-11 4-8 15 2 10
.................................................. ......85

TAY 40 3-14 4-6 4 5 10
SHEED 35 6-15 2-2 12 2 17
WEBB 19 3-5 3-4 8 3 9
CB 39 7-18 12-12 4 9 28
RIP 40 8-12 4-4 3 4 21
BENCH 6-12 3-5 14 2 15
.................................................. ........100

I'm busting out my Gar Heard avatar tonight for good luck!

Goooooooooooo Pistons!

The Low's favorite player, Eric Snow is also there, assaulting a tackling dummy with a bevy of eye gouges, knee kicks and trash talk.


LOL....

Eric Snow's pregame workout:

YouTube - Afro Ninja 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_NQCTbvRnM)

I watched it 3 times. Hilarious.

i'll take the blame for the Game 3 loss. i was in florida instead of michigan watching the game, and that obviously had a negative effect on the team.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3109/jinxmi4.jpg

hahaha lurker. dba, my buddy was in florida for game 7 of the spurs in 2005. he apologizes for the lack of back-to-back championships.

also, i saw a kid about 8 years old at the hotel with a miami heat jersey on. i beat him up and stole his waffles.

From MLive:

Jim O' Brien, former coach of the Philadelphia 76ers has a unique theory about why the Pistons perimeter stars are struggling on offense against the Cavs. This is an ESPN Insider blog, so I'm only going to quote one paragraph and sum the rest.May 28, ESPN.com: (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=nba) I reported in my blog some time back that Chris Webber made what I consider one of the most startling comments I have ever heard. Shortly after we traded for him when I coached Philadelphia I was discussing our playbook with him. One play had Kyle Korver coming from under the basket and our power forward (Webber) screening for him on the box and posting up for a low-post opportunity. Webber looked at me and very politely said, "Coach, I don't do the low-post thing anymore." His point was that at that stage of his career he was best utilized at the elbow with the ball in his hands. If everyone moved when he had the ball he would hit cutters if they were open for a layup or an open jumper.O' Brien goes on to say that Flip Saunders knows Webber still has skills down in the low post despite his resistance to play down low in the recent past, so he's trying to force him to play there with mixed results. The problem is this eliminates post up opportunities for Detroit's talented perimeter players because Webber is clogging up the lane. It always hinders Webber's most important skill, ball movement, because that skill is maximized on the elbow, where Webber is most comfortable.
If you have ESPN Insider I high recommend reading the entire blog entry. I'm not making the decision that O'Brien is right, but it's excellent analysis from a former head coach, especially considering he coached Webber for a short time in Philly.

At that time, indeed, Webber had no post up game. But that has changed, as Webber is a lot further removed from that surgery. From what I can see, going inside is Webber's strength these days, and what can help us win the most. Operating from the elbow results in him attempting too many short jumpers, something we just don't need right now.

Chat is open. Have fun guys and Gooooo Pistons!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

The fix is in-----Stern has ordered LeBron to make it to the Finals.

Pistons in trouble. But not deep trouble. Still tied. Both teams have held serve. Time to get our fans back.

Told ya. We can rant all we want, if we win this series, we get blown out by the Spurs. If we lose, the Cavs get blown out by the Spurs. But the NBA gets their billion dollar baby all kinds of notice and the new era of "Jordan" begins.

I agree.. atrocious officating in the 4th by the zebras.

I thought LBJ elbowing CB to the ground on the steal breakaway was a totally blown call and the 9.5 seconds to cross halfcourt was a joke.

We had chances, it just didn't pan out.

On to Game 5.

Pistons in trouble. But not deep trouble. Still tied. Both teams have held serve. Time to get our fans back.


It's hard to be a fan of flip the switch players. This has been going on year after year.

Thanks "Mr. Big Shot"

What's worrisome is that the Pistons can't seem to hold their defensive focus for more than half a quarter anymore. Halfway into the fourth Rip comes in, nobody picks up LeBron and he barges into the lane for and-1. After that it's all downhill.

Win or lose, this season should prompt a major shakeup in the roster. We can't build a big enough margin anymore to compensate for these brown-outs.

Terribly irritating loss tonight. In spite of a catastrophic second quarter, the Pistons were still in it, only down 7 at the half. Cleveland's patented third quarter meltdown, plus some inspired play by Dice, got the Pistons up going into the 4th and in perfect position to bring it home. But then a MASSIVE CHOKE down the stretch handed a big lead to the Cavs, followed by Cleveland trying desperately to give the game away with multiple bad shots and turnovers...only for CB to commit three unforgivably stupid mistakes in the final minutes to drive the stake into the Pistons' hearts.

Pistons actually outrebounded Cleveland tonight, and kept the turnover numbers down overall (just 12 for the game), but made Gibson and Gooden look like HOFers. We can still pull this out in 7, but it sure looks like they can start getting the parade route ready in San Antonio again.

I agree about the bad calls. James takes 5 steps and gets the foul call. Could have been a clear path on James when he appeared to throw Billups to the floor on a break-away. Sheed gets the same foul as Gibson but its non-shooting for us. And I am pretty sure that the refs are supposed to stop play when a toy ball rolls onto the floor.

Still if the Pistons had played 4 complete quarters, which they have not done yet in the this series, they would have swept this thing. Now its going to be a grind it out while SanAntonio rests.

Ills of the regular season following the Pistons here. Your habits follow you in. Turning it on and off so many times and they appear to not know whats going on at times.

After that tech on Gooden where he headlocked Sheed going to the hoop, Gooden absolutely outplayed him down the stretch. That was one of the keys in last few minutes.

Your habits follow you in. Turning it on and off so many times and they appear to not know whats going on at times.

The only way you can excise that switch demon is to remove the bad seeds i.e. coaches and players. The bad attitude is contagious.

The only way you can excise that switch demon is to remove the bad seeds i.e. coaches and players. The bade attitude is contagious.

completely agree

We ought to let Billups go.

Why didn't Flip keep Hunter on Gibson? Prince plays so timid at times. Trailing by 3 and CB decides to spot up for an off balance jumper instead of driving to the hole. WTF.

After that tech on Gooden where he headlocked Sheed going to the hoop, Gooden absolutely outplayed him down the stretch. That was one of the keys in last few minutes.
Remember in chat when I said, "if Gooden hits those jumpers again (in the 4th Q) WE WILL BE IN TROUBLE!!!!

Man Webber is killing US!!!!!!! In so many discreet ways he absolutely killing us.........

He's too slow to stay with Gooden so we put him on Z, which allows Z to have some meaningful production early.
If we started Sheed on Z, dude gets zip.
He can't rotate or defend the P&R.
It's obvious that Clev goal is to involve Webb in P&R's a-la Shaq, because he's too slow to hedge and recover, and he darn sure can't switch out.
We are trying so hard to get him going that a 5th starter gets froze out.
It seems as if we've forgotten how to move the ball and make the extra pass so it seems as if that throughout the game we play, "It's your turn". We try to force Webber's turn and he flat out does not deliver, but it means that one of the 5 starters doesn't get a turn.Not to dog Webb, but in this series he's ineffective. Cleveland is a big team and there are very few passing lanes out of the post and they are not doubling him, and he's not knocking down J's consistently. That fifth starter needs to be a player who doesn't need a play called for him to be effective- MAX SHOULD START GAME 5, and the the rest of the playoffs for that matter. Dyess needs to be the 6th man and Davis should get the spot mins. I'm totally convinced that Webber can't deliver what this team needs to advance and ultimately win a championship, he's becoming too big of a defensive liability, and giving him the ball just means one less touch for the core, who need as many touches as they can get in order to get a rhythm.

Let me say that the problem with the Pistons is the same arrogant problem I see in some of yall posters. the Cavs are getting no credit and while some of yall are waiting to see what float goes down the riverwalk, it may not even matter if we lose game 5.

- Flip had a chance to be in a new league 2 nite. instead of being closer to pop, he's falling back closer to Sam Mitchell. He has not won ONE key playoff game in the last 10 years. AND no i dont consider home wins or Game 3 wins KEY wins. If yall think he's gonna do or say anything bby Thursday to fire this team up,....jehhheh right!

- Spurs WILL NEVER be in this position vs an inferior team. NEVER. They put the Suns away when they were 'weaker' and will show us what Game 5 is all about.

- Chauncey can kiss where the sun rarely shines!!! When u talk mess and dont back it up, then u got a prob with me. And Rip stating "IT means more to them than it does to us" would never be uttered if LB was here. The legacy of their carrer , if it means anything to them , will be settled in the next 96 minutes of basketball.

- Sheed giveth. Sheed giveth some more. Why fire up the crowd by tossing your headband, u big anatomy!!?? Then he basically ran from Gooden on the flagrant foul. I can think of 5 Pistons that would have swung back: zeke, horn, Lamb, Vinnie and salley. (Worm was kinda Varajeo like) Sheed needs to play 32 minutes of UNbelieevable ball Thursday.

- McDyess vs Webber. I figured by now he would have nothing left. But our coach has 4 fresh legs of center on the bench in DD and Nazr who could come in and wreck havoc for at least 10 min a game. But we aint got that kind of coach. Webber's career in Michigan will be decided in game 5 and 7. Dyess on the other hand, should have a 16 and 10 in him for game 5. If just ACTS like he's going in the paint, it changes evrything. I wish Mickey could manage us Thursday.

_ Delfino needs minutes, like Max. I really believe they could have been difference makers , if they felt their coach 'truly' believed that.

The 1st qtr Game 5 will be the biggest quarter of the last 3 years.

Where do I start...other than we in trouble if you believe in momentum. The Cavs now have a chance to sweep the hard way. But we still got two home games and boy do we need some home town karma. I know we can't wear the red uniforms, but the Pistons need to give out some Blue Stop Labron T-Shirts., heck some Stop Gibson shirts too for the little fans.

Gooden was open all night and regained his touch and Gibson was a thorn in the side of every Piston especially in the second qtr when Labron was resting up for his potential 4th qtr heroics.

We have not had a lead bigger than 5 points in this whole series and once again we could not extend it beyond 4 tonight. Everytime we had a chance to go up 5 or 6, they could not get a stop or extend it. once again the overall stats were even with the turnover and assists even. We even out rebounded them to the tune of 40-34 including a 10-3 edge on the offensive boards.

Why did we lose??? Well collapses in both the 2nd and 4th qtr, but 4th was the most significant since we has a 2 point lead went up by 4 before the collapse. However there four huge questionalble plays in the 4th and all were by Mr Big Shot Choke! :frusty:

1)First the off balanced three when we were up by 77-76. Wasn't needed.
2)Then after Dice blocked Donyell shot and gave it to CB, he somehow fumbled it out of bounds. Gooden scored on the behind the back dish from Labron.
3)then the drive to the hoop and then passing off to.....Gooden for the TO. Why didn't he just continue to the hoop and try to get an and 1 opportunity???:frusty:
4) Finally with Pistons down by three with 44 seconds left, he throws up another 3 ball instead of either driving around James to the hoop or passing to Rip on the wing.

Somebody got a video of Dumars and Flips expressions when he tossed up that last three???? 2/9 tonight from the 3 and 2/8 on Sunday. Why doesn't the guy penetrate and pass to an open man near the bucket instead of 3 ball attempts???????

There were some very bad calls in this game. I tried to be objective. I honestly didn't count one bad call that went against the Cavs. The Pistons got screwed a lot tonight. Having said that, none of those calls were the reason we lost this game.

Dre #5, the charge in the lane. twice Billups left his feet to pass the ball and twice he turned it over. Any kids out there?? NEVER LEAVE YOUR FEET TO PASS THE BALL.

Not to dog Webb, but in this series he's ineffective. Cleveland is a big team and there are very few passing lanes out of the post and they are not doubling him, and he's not knocking down J's consistently........

-same thing vs Bulls


-same thing vs cavs


-same thing vs Spurs


at some point that will come to bite us where Jaws knew us..

Good post HQ. I rarely read through long posts (I skim them), but yours was interesting. Lots of good points and I agree with you on much of it. I like what you said about the arrogant posters. There is definitely a sense of entitlement here.

One thing though...Flip was the coach when we won a key game 6 on the road in Cleveland last year.

The Pistons will win or lose. We have absolutely no control over the situation, so people need to try not to take it so hard. The sun will likely rise tomorrow, and if it doesn't it will have nothing to do with the Pistons losing tonight. :)

The optimistic take on CWebb coming into this series was that the quickness of the Bulls' front line was a problem that he wouldn't have against the slower Cavs. But he's still not producing anything. Doesn't look like he can produce much of anything against the league's elite teams in the playoffs.

Dre #5, the charge in the lane. twice Billups left his feet to pass the ball and twice he turned it over. Any kids out there?? NEVER LEAVE YOUR FEET TO PASS THE BALL.

You are correct KGREG..and I am sure that someone can give us another Billups miscue in the 4th. <><><><><>The 2-9 three ball shooting and the 2 assists&%$#%%

The optimistic take on CWebb coming into this series was that the quickness of the Bulls' front line was a problem that he wouldn't have against the slower Cavs. But he's still not producing anything. Doesn't look like he can produce much of anything against the league's elite teams in the playoffs.

He's too slow to keep up with Gooden
He's to slow to keep up with SIde Show Bob
He's too slow to rotate out to Marshall at the arc
His post defense against Z is deplorable, he ALLOWS!!!! the 7'3" Ilgauskas to catch the ball too deep, nor does he recover when Z picks and pops.

Not to dog Webb, but in this series he's ineffective. Cleveland is a big team and there are very few passing lanes out of the post and they are not doubling him, and he's not knocking down J's consistently........

-same thing vs Bulls


-same thing vs cavs


-same thing vs Spurs


at some point that will come to bite us where Jaws knew us..

Unfortunately for us is that when Webber does play decent, it is every other game, so lets hope he shows up Thursday.

There were some very bad calls in this game. I tried to be objective. I honestly didn't count one bad call that went against the Cavs. The Pistons got screwed a lot tonight. Having said that, none of those calls were the reason we lost this game.Then HOW did we get screwed Jam? Thats like Bob Knight's comment on rape. The refs did not make Billups do a damn thing. The refs did not make Rip and Sheed miss big FT's. the refs did not hold Cavs to under 40 points in 2nd half while our sorry butts couldnt score 50!!....and so on

Good post HQ. I rarely read through long posts (I skim them), but yours was interesting. Lots of good points and I agree with you on much of it. I like what you said about the arrogant posters. There is definitely a sense of entitlement here.

One thing though...Flip was the coach when we won a key game 6 on the road in Cleveland last year.

The Pistons will win or lose. We have absolutely no control over the situation, so people need to try not to take it so hard. The sun will likely rise tomorrow, and if it doesn't it will have nothing to do with the Pistons losing tonight. :)
Oh yeah, game 6 ..but only because we HAD to play a Game 6 vs a much weaker Cav team last year than this year. BTW, did u see my chat post tonite? I said:

Somewhere my Sith Lord is laffin his ass off at me!!!:pound:

I know a lot of us in here, well the vast majority are already shipping cb in the offseason, have given up hope during these playoffs, and are ready to break this team up. We in here have to man up and take this loss like true fans. Remember in 04 when we were down 3-2 to the Nets and came back to beat those guys in 7. Remember when we lost game 1 in Indiana and came back to win that series in 6 on our homefloor. Dismantling the team is not the answer, if that happens i guransheed that more than half of the bandwagon-ass cats in here will leave the forum and never come back, trust. Okay, Cleveland has held serve and we have a series, it is not the end of the world. Just because our series may extend to 7 games dose not automatically mean we will inevitalbly lose in the Finals. I want to see those in here who can endure hard times and stand by their team through hard times. It is easy to be on board when we win but WHO in here is gonna stand by this squad and be here to the end. I am very dissapointed in a lot of us in here and I expect us to be adults and not be so swayed by our recent lackluster performance.

I'm so sick of the chronic pissing, moaning, and %%%%%ing in here by the same members. So what we have a series, are we all going to become Cavs fans now or root for the Spurs. %%%%ing ridiculous, lets stand by our team afterall we do have championship pedigree and have come back to raise banners and win a title. Dont give up now I feel the best is yet to come. This may have been the best thing to happen to us this year. I really feel we are on our way to playing our best ball in these playoffs. I refuse to let go and give up on my PISTONS, trust that. I wanna see all the real fans in here. Will all my REAL DETROIT PISTONS fans please stand the %%%% up, sheesh.

He's too slow to keep up with Gooden
He's to slow to keep up with SIde Show Bob
He's too slow to rotate out to Marshall at the arc
His post defense against Z is deplorable, he ALLOWS!!!! the 7'3" Ilgauskas to catch the ball too deep, nor does he recover when Z picks and pops.
This is why when we played Sixers last year, THE LAST person I worried about was CHRIS "I CHOKE THEREFORE I AM" WEBBER!

It's just so irritating watching an inferior team beat the Pistons. I hate Cleveland so much because they play ugly basketball that's boring to watch. The Pistons are always their own worst enemy and Flip Saunders is just such an inflexible coach that can't make any creative substitutions. He just keeps going back to what doesn't work hoping it does work. CWebb has become a liability on both the offensive and defensive end of the floor. Chauncey is just playing way too many minutes (as well as Prince) so TOs and bad decisions result. Why aren't DD and Nazr given a chance to play in the game to see if they can swing momentum and change things up. If I was Delfino I would be on the phone with my agent at the end of the season and ask to be moved to a team that will appreciate my talents. It's pretty sad that a rookie can come in for Cleveland and basically take the Pistons to school. It is not a fluke that Daniel Gibson is playing so well, he's had lots of starts and he has a coach that's not afraid to play him in crucial situations during the regular season, it now pays off. Gibson is not Ben Gordon but he's a darn good little point guard.

Lindsey was playing great tonight and what does Flip do -- take him out of course when we had the lead. Delfino only playing 2 minutes is criminal, so I'm going to bed to pout tonight.

Allowing a rookie and a bench player who average 4.6 ppg in the regular season to score a career high 21 tonight really hurt the Pistons in this game. Where is the focus, and why no defensive adjustments after the first half?

We were outplayed down the stretch, which was a real disappointment.

Chauncey once again had more turnovers than assists for the game.

Barkley wondered after the game why on earth Maxiel was not getting more playing time.

I don't think Flip brought much to this game in the way of coaching savvy. A great coach might have found a way to push the Pistons over the top in this game.

All of this said, I am still confident that will exploit our home court advantage for a series victory.

I think the fouls were even in this one. There may have been one or two bad calls, but I wouldn't say if affected the full outcome of the game. This game was lost because we allowed Gibson to pentrate at will and put up 7-7 FT shooting in the second, our inability to ever extend a lead because of bone head shot selections thoughout the game>> especially in crunch time and of course the two late TO's.

Explosivity....solid post and valid points. I'm upset with Billups, but no way have I given up on the guy. Heck I'm not even upset with Webber, but I realize that we clearly don't have our best team on the floor when he's on the floor. I believe that this team CAN win this series, I'm not sure if they WILL. I hope our team ralizes that we are not a better basketball team than the Cavs, we're evenly matched. The winner of this series will be the team that,
wins the hustle points and executes down the stretch.

We got beat. They have outplayed us for most of the series.

We do not play solid defense long enough. I have given up on the offense. We will not outscore them. We will have to beat them on defense.

The Pistons team lacks a penetrator and youth. We are struggling because the game now is for youth.

Ok. The Pistons are a better team but that is not worth much if we don't win.

This is all about a coach who refuses to change. I call on the media, and all fans, to call him out on it. If my posts irritate you, forget that for a moment. Everyone has to ask Flip Saunders why he did not go to Maxiell late in the 4th quarter. Everyone must ask why he stayed with our extended starting group (starters plus Dyess). Everyone must ask him why he feels he needs to prove he can win without a bench. Everyone must ask him why he thinks his players can go the whole game with so little rest. And don't take anything he says without a challenge. Try your best to get the message across. Flip Saunders must change. He must learn. He must use his bench.

I doubt anyone could possibly fail to notice how effective Maxiell was on defense tonight. Constantly in the face of the Cleveland players, and yet always able to get back to his own guy easily. Wow, what a game from Maxiell. Remember, he made his free throws this time. Still no time down the stretch. No excuse.

Dyess did well for a stretch, going inside like we know he can from earlier in the season. Then he killed us. Started bricking jumpers. And worse, he is in there instead of Maxiell. The moment Dyess starts losing energy, not going inside, take him out of the game. For sure, Dyess had one monster of a game on offense and defense up until about 8 minutes to go in the game. But then it was JMAX time. If only Flip Saunders would decide to change, we can still win this series.

CB scored well for the game, then stunk in the 4th. He still scored plenty of points for the game. I will take the points in any quarter. Will I fault himm too much for bad decisions after playing just about the whole game-nope.

Murray had a bad one. No points that I recall anyway, and lots of missed defensive rotations. Worse, he was in along side Maxiell, which always means Maxiell is not going to get a chance to score in the post for us. Hunter did way better in this game. He hit that 3, and took no shots otherwise as I recall. (Note, I don't check the boxscore as I am trying to do this from memory to keep things fresh.) Hunter played solid D on his own guy, and nailed his defensive rotations. So far for the series, Murray had that one good scoring quarter, where he also gave up quite a few points, and thats it. Again, Cleveland hit 50 points in the first half, as Murray was way overplayed in th e 2nd quarter.

Delfino barely got to play. He missed a shot, made a stupid foul, in very short minutes. Remember, if Delfino succeeds, it will go to help prove we need a bench, something Flip does not believe in.

Rip got some layups early, went cold for a spell, and then heated up a bit. Kind of a mixed bag for him. Those shots off curls were not there much as Billups is being kept off his favorite haunches where he likes to operate to feed Rip for those jumpers off those curls. We are doing things like having other people such as Rip or Tay bring the ball up some, whatever to avoid Cleveland being able to trap CB much.

Sheed had his moments. He also refrained from taking many threes. Too bad others did not refrain as much.

The tech on Sheed was bogus at first glance, and yet Sheed screamed all nite at those refs, so he had it coming, sorry fans. Sheed certainly ran his mouth in this game enough to deserve a tech.

Bron should have been called for a couple of fouls. A drive where he stuck his elbow out to create contact. The shove of Billups. The first non-call was pretty blatant, and for sure makes the refs look like rank amateurs. This does not help the NBA's image at all. It has to be cleaned up. Otherwise, the comparisons to the WWF wil continue, and many, many fans will continue to not even watch.

The announcers are flat out annoying at how loud they get when Cleveland does anything. Especially Albert. I had a chance to get my picture taken with this guy the other day, and I turned it down. Just don't like the guy.

I will not be going to the next game, as my daughter had the audacity to choose this nite to graduate. Well, I guess the school chose the date. Darn, I really wanted to go to that game. (Of course, I would rather have had this series end in 4 already.)

Tay did some good things in the first half, and then nothing in the 2nd. Oh well, he still had an ok game. Not like those first couple of games in this series. And if I recall, Tay held Bron to zero in the 3rd quarter. Since he had no rest, no, I will not get too negative about his 4th quarter play. It was actually good enough, if only a very tired, used up, Dyess was taken out for Maxiell.

Webber should not be starting. Give me Dale Davis in the rotation instead. Could Webber come in here and there to run some plays, absolutely. But to play him so much with Cleveland having a big bold X written on his back ain't going to work. Webber is exactly where Cleveland looks for their scoring. A simple pick and roll, remove Webber from the scene, and voila, an easy open shot for someone.

In sum, its about the coach. Sure, the players made mistakes. Sure, the refs sure did not make it easy for us. But that did not lose this one. Its who Flip Saunders is choosing to play, and why he is doing so. His stubborness will do us in. He must change or we will have a long sad summer talking about what could have been. GO PISTONS!!!!!

I know a lot of us in here, well the vast majority are already shipping cb in the offseason, have given up hope during these playoffs, and are ready to break this team up. We in here have to man up and take this loss like true fans. Remember in 04 when we were down 3-2 to the Nets and came back to beat those guys in 7. Remember when we lost game 1 in Indiana and came back to win that series in 6 on our homefloor. Dismantling the team is not the answer, if that happens i guransheed that more than half of the bandwagon-ass cats in here will leave the forum and never come back, trust. Okay, Cleveland has held serve and we have a series, it is not the end of the world. Just because our series may extend to 7 games dose not automatically mean we will inevitalbly lose in the Finals. I want to see those in here who can endure hard times and stand by their team through hard times. It is easy to be on board when we win but WHO in here is gonna stand by this squad and be here to the end. I am very dissapointed in a lot of us in here and I expect us to be adults and not be so swayed by our recent lackluster performance.

I'm so sick of the chronic pissing, moaning, and %%%%%ing in here by the same members. So what we have a series, are we all going to become Cavs fans now or root for the Spurs. %%%%ing ridiculous, lets stand by our team afterall we do have championship pedigree and have come back to raise banners and win a title. Dont give up now I feel the best is yet to come. This may have been the best thing to happen to us this year. I really feel we are on our way to playing our best ball in these playoffs. I refuse to let go and give up on my PISTONS, trust that. I wanna see all the real fans in here. Will all my REAL DETROIT PISTONS fans please stand the %%%% up, sheesh.
Remember this brother:
- some of yall have no idea who Dave Bing, Bob lanier, Curtis Rowe or Howard porter is.
_ some dont know that eric Money scored 43 pts in a playoff game vs Rick Barry's Warriors once
- some dont know that Kevin porter set the record for most assist in a season HERE in Detroit, but was villified as a 'ballhog'!
- some dont know that MLCarr made the allstar team as a Piston but was more famous waving a towel on the Celtic bench
- some dont know WHAT the Piston record was the year before Isiah got here, where Isiah went to college, how the friendship between he and Magic came to be or why they call him Zeke
- some dont know how long George Blaha has broadcasted Piston games
- some dont know who was drafted first: rodman or salley?
- some dont know where Grant long played in college and who was the last starting 5 Joe Dumars played with?
_Some dont know who hit the game winning shot vs Portland?
- scored 16 pts in 4th qtr at the JLA?
- The pistons leading scorer the year we acquired Ben wallace/


Brother, I could go ON and On and On. Ive forgotten more Piston games than some will ever know. But win or lose..I HAVE no doubt IN MY MIND that this is a PISTONS FAN FORUM. Me and roscoe disagree, but I love him. The Low and lee356 disagree and they have a beautiful marraige. Gazoo and PCF have pretty green babies. We may not all agree...but we will always be fans...

Where were you on the night of this game..

DETROIT 186, DENVR 184 ??????:sssh:

Great posts guys.

I don't know much about the majority of the things you listed HQ, but I do know that that doesn't make me any less of a fan. I don't want to start a fight or anything but I fail to see how any of the things you listed have relevance to being a fan now. No, I don't know where I was when Detroit defeated Denver, 186-184 (but from that score, I'd say I don't think there was much defense going on!) but I do know where I was the night Detroit fell to Cleveland, 87-91. I was in my room, sitting in a chair about 4 inches from the TV, clapping, wincing, gasping, and cussing. Being a fan means different things to different people. To some of us, it means remembering plays, scores, draft picks and various other bits of information from yesteryears. To others, being a fan is about having confidence in your team even when others point out it's faults. It's about encouraging others to keep the faith when things look bad. It's about sticking up for players you've never even met because you don't like to hear negative comments after a disappointing loss.

On a different note, does anybody know what Detroit's record is in games following losses in which Rasheed Wallace is thoroughly pissed? I hope it's a winning one!

wow this game really annoyed me to no end. first of all, lebron got away with a few more travels and a couple offensive fouls, and if the gooden/sheed foul was reversed gooden would've been shooting 2, but we handed this game to the cavs on a silver platter.

chauncey - wtf kind of shots are you taking!?!? the timing?? and leaving your feet on passes? seriously what's wrong with you this series?

dyess - good energy, but geezus, DEFEND GOODEN. i know he was trying to help on lebron, but he left gooden too open

dale davis - bring him in to regulate, we need his rebounding, toughness, and defensive respect the refs give him.

webber - please sit on the bench the rest of the series.

tay - STOP posting up, it's not working.

sheed - nice terrible 3-point attempt that you jacked up because we wasted 24 seconds of a possession from you being so adamant about getting the ball.

flip saunders - not your best coaching game. difficult to find a specific instance i was annoyed with (like game 3, subbing the starters back in with 90 seconds left in the 1st half when our bench was playing fine). oh wait nevermind. you should've called timeout and immediately pulled rasheed outta the game after his ill-advised 3-pointer after the technical.

daniel gibson - how the f' does a rookie get so much respect as to get to the line TWELVE times in one game?

varejao - glad the refs are making you play regular basketball and exposing how much you suck. although the refs still don't call moving screens.

i've stated all year we need losses to knock us off our high horse and make us realize if we want a championship, we're going to have to work as hard as we did in '04, night in and night out. we were less experienced back then but won on heart and hustle. so far i'm seeing neither. in my opinion, this should be the absolute last wake-up call and loss that needed to happen (not saying i'm happy with it). from this point on, no more excuses, no more lazy play, no more losing games you should win. time to answer that one call for us all.

last sidenote - wtf was that sprite advertisement showing lebron vs. the spurs in the finals? lame.

Where do I start...other than we in trouble if you believe in momentum. The Cavs now have a chance to sweep the hard way. But we still got two home games and boy do we need some home town karma. I know we can't wear the red uniforms, but the Pistons need to give out some Blue Stop Labron T-Shirts., heck some Stop Gibson shirts too for the little fans.

Gooden was open all night and regained his touch and Gibson was a thorn in the side of every Piston especially in the second qtr when Labron was resting up for his potential 4th qtr heroics.

We have not had a lead bigger than 5 points in this whole series and once again we could not extend it beyond 4 tonight. Everytime we had a chance to go up 5 or 6, they could not get a stop or extend it. once again the overall stats were even with the turnover and assists even. We even out rebounded them to the tune of 40-34 including a 10-3 edge on the offensive boards.

Why did we lose??? Well collapses in both the 2nd and 4th qtr, but 4th was the most significant since we has a 2 point lead went up by 4 before the collapse. However there four huge questionalble plays in the 4th and all were by Mr Big Shot Choke! :frusty:

1)First the off balanced three when we were up by 77-76. Wasn't needed.
2)Then after Dice blocked Donyell shot and gave it to CB, he somehow fumbled it out of bounds. Gooden scored on the behind the back dish from Labron.
3)then the drive to the hoop and then passing off to.....Gooden for the TO. Why didn't he just continue to the hoop and try to get an and 1 opportunity???:frusty:
4) Finally with Pistons down by three with 44 seconds left, he throws up another 3 ball instead of either driving around James to the hoop or passing to Rip on the wing.

Somebody got a video of Dumars and Flips expressions when he tossed up that last three???? 2/9 tonight from the 3 and 2/8 on Sunday. Why doesn't the guy penetrate and pass to an open man near the bucket instead of 3 ball attempts???????

after dice blocked the shot CB was fouled and hit to the ground.. no foul call.

This is killing me --- I want the Pistons and CWebb to do well in these playoffs, and to this point in the ECF, neither are really playing to their full potential. To add insult to injury, CWebb is apparently the #1 reason why the Pistons lost Game 4, at least if the posts in this thread are to be believed. I wasn't able to watch or listen to the game, unfortunately.

Either way, I think CWebb's defensive effort on the P&Rs needs to get kicked up a couple/five notches, as well as his willingness to give up a hard foul or three on Lebron's drives --- I don't care if he wraps Lebron up with a bear hug, it's better to take chances with King James at the line. And, since the Pistons have at least 4 reliable bigs, and CWebb isn't going to play much more than 24 minutes regardless of his foul trouble, he shouldn't be so stingy with those fouls.

But the Pistons offense as a whole needs to get in gear, and it starts with strategy. The team is used to Billups getting everything going, and the Cavs are doing a good job of taking that away. Through 4 games, the Pistons have yet to really try anything drastically different to combat this, and it's showing in the final scores. Since I'm not a NBA coach, I don't really have any concrete suggestions, but I'm hoping some type of game plan for Game 5 is in the works to put the Pistons offense in gear.

Detroit still has homecourt advantage. Protect homecourt in Game 5, and the series is right there for the taking in Game 6.

I thought LBJ elbowing CB to the ground on the steal breakaway was a totally blown call and the 9.5 seconds to cross halfcourt was a joke.


This especially made me sick.

I can't shake a certain feeling of dread thinking about the next round...IF the Pistons make it there. Even with the ridiculous calls we still had a chance if Chauncey doesn't play basketball like circus music is playing in his head.

You are correct KGREG..and I am sure that someone can give us another Billups miscue in the 4th. <><><><><>The 2-9 three ball shooting and the 2 assists&%$#%%

how about fouling gooden right after he passed the ball to him? we'd been getting stops on them (i think there was 1:15 left and we were down 4), so why foul one of their hot hands? I know he only made 1, but still, no need for that foul. chauncey ran over there and collared him like there was 2 seconds left in the game.

Let me say that the problem with the Pistons is the same arrogant problem I see in some of yall posters. the Cavs are getting no credit and while some of yall are waiting to see what float goes down the riverwalk, it may not even matter if we lose game 5.




Great post HQ. The whole post. I give ther Cavs credit. This is a dogfight. It was painful to watch but the Cavs earned it.Webber has never been the same since Chauncey made those comments about how he was uncomfortable with the ball in Webber's hands so much...it was like turning off a light switch.

A little more sober today about our performance last night.

There really was no one Piston who stood out last night.

I am frustrated with Flip Saunders (but not for obvious reasons) and I am incredibly frustrated with Chauncey Billups which has been ongoing for the last 2 years.

I really felt that we should have kept going to Rip down the stretch.

We're doing too much "playing not to lose" and the team looks totally out of our winning character. We're not creating turnovers with the zone, we're not getting out and pushing, we're not running our pick and pops, we've posting up and playing ISO ball, and our decision making in the clutch is horrible. TERRIBLE!

But, we're home and we can beat these weiners. Then it's a 7 game series.

besides the annoying lebron / sprite / nba finals commercial (y'all saw that, right? or did the 'sublymonal' advertising get to you?), what really annoys me are the announcers...

like marv albert, any time a cavalier had a shot attempt he'd be like 'DANIEL GIBSON...OH WHAT A SHOT!!', but whenever we shot it he was completely silent, and if we made it he was even more silent. and when we made our run in the 4th, again silent.

or craig sager at the 3nd of game 3, asking lebron how it felt to hit the game-winning shot, even though that did not happen whatsoever.

Remember this brother:
- some of yall have no idea who Dave Bing, Bob lanier, Curtis Rowe or Howard porter is.
_ some dont know that eric Money scored 43 pts in a playoff game vs Rick Barry's Warriors once
- some dont know that Kevin porter set the record for most assist in a season HERE in Detroit, but was villified as a 'ballhog'!
- some dont know that MLCarr made the allstar team as a Piston but was more famous waving a towel on the Celtic bench
- some dont know WHAT the Piston record was the year before Isiah got here, where Isiah went to college, how the friendship between he and Magic came to be or why they call him Zeke
- some dont know how long George Blaha has broadcasted Piston games
- some dont know who was drafted first: rodman or salley?
- some dont know where Grant long played in college and who was the last starting 5 Joe Dumars played with?
_Some dont know who hit the game winning shot vs Portland?
- scored 16 pts in 4th qtr at the JLA?
- The pistons leading scorer the year we acquired Ben wallace/


Brother, I could go ON and On and On. Ive forgotten more Piston games than some will ever know. But win or lose..I HAVE no doubt IN MY MIND that this is a PISTONS FAN FORUM. Me and roscoe disagree, but I love him. The Low and lee356 disagree and they have a beautiful marraige. Gazoo and PCF have pretty green babies. We may not all agree...but we will always be fans...

Where were you on the night of this game..

DETROIT 186, DENVR 184 ??????:sssh:


Its funny that you mentioned that game. First thing that you have to realize old skool is that i'm only 29 years of age. So for me to watch that game and truly understand everything that is going on would have been a marvel. Second I have seen that game on espn classic many times, and I belive it went 3 overtimes and Zeke had something like 45 pts and 15 assists(could be wrong about the assists). I have been a die-hard Piston fan since 1986 when I started to really get into basketball and have had the amazing opportunity to see us win big games and lose them also. I have seen us win titles and lose them also. Like you I have had sleeplessness nights pondering how we could won some of those games and days of euphoria after we were victorious. I am not questioning your loyalty old skool, but the series is only tied and just because we lost last night doesnt mean that the basketball world as we know it is gonna end. You have to support your team no matter what, its what "true" fans do.

Marv is also a guy who specializes in calling the play wrong, then saying "oh now they've changed to call to..." implying that the refs changed their minds when in reality he just lost track because he was looking around the first couple of rows for someone to bite.

We made more baskets, got more rebounds (way more offensive), and broke even on the turnovers. Free throws were the difference. Pretty good performance on the road.

We made more baskets, got more rebounds (way more offensive), and broke even on the turnovers. Free throws were the difference. Pretty good performance on the road.

Win with jumpers, lose with jumpers.

Scoreboard, nothing else matters except not having injuries.

Well guess what? The Cavs were the team to step up last night, which negated anything the Pistons brought to the table. All they did though was hold serve. All anybody has done is win at home. They deserve all the credit for winning two games in a row in the 4th quarter. Normally, the 4th is reserved for the Detroit Pistons against weaker opponents. This Cavs team thinks their in a competitive series. It's time the Detroit Pistons start thinking the same way. We're way better than we've been playing. But until the Detroit Pistons start taking the Cavs seriously, we will be behind the 8 ball. I've been calling them the "Detroit Pistons" cause this is a "Pistons Forum" and we must rally behind these guys. There will be plenty of time after the season to contemplate any moves you want, based on their FINAL results. If this were a chess match boys and girls...........look...........there are still pieces on the board to be played. Not a good idea to critize so EXTENSIVELY, when the playoffs are still going on for the Detroit Pistons. I see a Pistons victory in SIX GAMES. We will head back to Cleveland after a game 5 victory and hand those boys their @$$#@% in front of their home crowd.

Go Pistons !!!!!!!

Marv is also a guy who specializes in calling the play wrong, then saying "oh now they've changed to call to..." implying that the refs changed their minds when in reality he just lost track because he was looking around the first couple of rows for someone to bite.

http://www.jodysgarage.com/images/funny/mug/marv-albert.jpg

Yes...it's a rug.

I watched the game and im pissed....

What the hell were we doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched the game and im pissed....

What the hell were we doing!!!!!!!!!!!!


Please change your avatar, I want to punch Webber in the face for about 2 hours straight right now.

"Let's win a title for Chris..." Hey Chris how about you get off your fat ass and win a game this series, you should still be able win 1 game basically by yourself.

The only starter without a foul? Lebron. What a clean game he played. I'm really impressed.

I'm telling y'all, we did a lot of things right this game.

Shooting: Pistons made 28 2-pointers and 3 3-pointers for 65 points.
While the Cavs made 26 2's and 4 3's for 64 points. Adv Pistons.

Rebounding: We seemed to get everything. 40 rebounds and 10 offensive for us. Cavs had 34 with 3 offensive. This is their biggest strength and we negated it. Adv Pistons.

Assists: 16 to 16. Push.

Steals: 8 to 7 Cavs.

Blocked Shots: 6 to 1 in favor of the Pistons.

What did they do better than us? Lebron had 4 buckets in the paint and he shot 4-13 on jumpers. We can live with that. Chauncey had about as many points and actually outrebounded LBJ.

Final word: If Webber isn't going to give us anything but bricks, let's start Dale Davis.

"Let's win a title for Chris..." Hey Chris how about you get off your fat ass and win a game this series, you should still be able win 1 game basically by yourself.

Final word: If Webber isn't going to give us anything but bricks, let's start Dale Davis.

There is a risk CWebb would just go south and bail on the rest of the playoffs, but I think you got to risk it. DD or JMax starts and Dice comes in.

There is a risk CWebb would just go south and bail on the rest of the playoffs, but I think you got to risk it. DD or JMax starts and Dice comes in.

Start him, but pull him at 3:00 in if he isn't playing well, just the like the Spurs do with whoever is playing in front of Ginobili.

You could, but I think the team might be better off just making a choice and letting DD or JMax get prepared to play from the beginning. Besides, what are the odds Webber is going to show up tomorrow night after the last few games?

You could, but I think the team might be better off just making a choice and letting DD or JMax get prepared to play from the beginning. Besides, what are the odds Webber is going to show up tomorrow night after the last few games?

Just do it to leave Max in a lower pressure role, like the Cavs did with Hughes/Gibson last night.

Just why does Prince play more minutes than Bron???

CB makin dumb decisions which leads to turnovers and not makin shots in the 4th quarter maybe due to he play 45-46 mins in this game. Does Flip know about this? Do his assistants know about this?

How do we beat them so easily (3-1) when we are suppose to cruising throughout the regular season and now in the playoffs, we are struggling to beat this team? Aren't we the experience team and can always flip the switch when the playoffs arrive???

Just plain frustrating. Anyway, I still have faith in them and think we can win this series in 6.

Just do it to leave Max in a lower pressure role, like the Cavs did with Hughes/Gibson last night.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But golly, that Gibson kid sure doesn't seem to lack for confidence. And the Pistons haven't done anything to convince him he isn't the second coming of Allen Iverson.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But golly, that Gibson kid sure doesn't seem to lack for confidence. And the Pistons haven't done anything to convince him he isn't the second coming of Allen Iverson.

Golly, he'd be wondering if it was a semi or a semi and a train that had just hit him if I was manning the paint.

I forgot we don't play actual basketball anymore.

Hunter or possibly Flip Jr. (I think I just threw up in my mouth) needs to be in most of the time when he is in.

I can't believe I'm game planning around a rookie. :boom:

Just do it to leave Max in a lower pressure role, like the Cavs did with Hughes/Gibson last night.
NOPE!!! Max needs to start. Not Davis, not Dyess, MAXIEL!!!!! There's 2 things that Clev likes to do early, (1) Go to Z in the post and (2)Run Pick and Roll. Webber being in our startting lineup allows them to do both of these things with success. He can't defend Z in the post, he just flat out can't do it. Secondly it's almost comical how they purposefully put Webb into P&R's knowing that he can't hedge & recover, he can't trap & recover and he can't switch. Give Mike Brown credit, he saw that Lebron was struggling with Max and Sheeds defense in the P&R, so he know runs it exclusively at Webber. The only problem with Max starting is he could possibly get switched out on Z and get toasted.

Z is doing much more damage from the perimeter than he is from the paint.

Yeah. Zeppelin.

Please change your avatar, I want to punch Webber in the face for about 2 hours straight right now.

"Let's win a title for Chris..." Hey Chris how about you get off your fat ass and win a game this series, you should still be able win 1 game basically by yourself.

Well at least Mr. Webber isn't making me out to be a liar:

Originally posted: 01-09-2007, 01:25 PM


...Not to mention the countless newspaper articles on what Webber USED to be able to do and what he COULD do to help us...forgetting that none it will ACTUALLY happen because he'll be injured again or shooting 4-16 or disappearing in 4th qtrs...on and on.

This is a "Knick" like move which would result in tons of potential on paper, lots of excitement for the beat writers, but not much in the way of dependable victory come playoff time.

NOPE!!! Max needs to start. Not Davis, not Dyess, MAXIEL!!!!! There's 2 things that Clev likes to do early, (1) Go to Z in the post and (2)Run Pick and Roll. Webber being in our startting lineup allows them to do both of these things with success. He can't defend Z in the post, he just flat out can't do it. Secondly it's almost comical how they purposefully put Webb into P&R's knowing that he can't hedge & recover, he can't trap & recover and he can't switch. Give Mike Brown credit, he saw that Lebron was struggling with Max and Sheeds defense in the P&R, so he know runs it exclusively at Webber. The only problem with Max starting is he could possibly get switched out on Z and get toasted.

Which is sad because Webber has a giant frame at this point in his career.

He really lacks the footspeed to be effective anymore, not seeing a good matchup for him vs SAS either if we get there, it's Amir time...

Well at least Mr. Webber isn't making me out to be a liar:

Originally posted: 01-09-2007, 01:25 PM




Nice post.

As an MSU guy I've begrudginly accepted him because of my "Trust in Joe" policy but also feared we were selling our soul...

It however is an 'Un-Knick' move because we didn't spend a bajillion $ for him.

Nazr Muhammad = Jerome James... Now that is a Knick move.

Marv is also a guy who specializes in calling the play wrong, then saying "oh now they've changed to call to..." implying that the refs changed their minds when in reality he just lost track because he was looking around the first couple of rows for someone to bite.

:pound: :MusicBigGrin: :pound: :) :pound: :lol:

I don't know much about the majority of the things you listed HQ, but I do know that that doesn't make me any less of a fan. I don't want to start a fight or anything but I fail to see how any of the things you listed have relevance to being a fan now. No, I don't know where I was when Detroit defeated Denver, 186-184 (but from that score, I'd say I don't think there was much defense going on!) but I do know where I was the night Detroit fell to Cleveland, 87-91. I was in my room, sitting in a chair about 4 inches from the TV, clapping, wincing, gasping, and cussing. Being a fan means different things to different people. To some of us, it means remembering plays, scores, draft picks and various other bits of information from yesteryears. To others, being a fan is about having confidence in your team even when others point out it's faults. It's about encouraging others to keep the faith when things look bad. It's about sticking up for players you've never even met because you don't like to hear negative comments after a disappointing loss.

On a different note, does anybody know what Detroit's record is in games following losses in which Rasheed Wallace is thoroughly pissed? I hope it's a winning one!
This is my point. I was saying that there are all types and levels of Piston fans here. But they are alll fans. Ex was saying if you get upset then arent 'a fan". All I was saying its a lot , A LOT of us that have seen a LOT of games, good and bad, and that if we want to holler ...fine...if not...fine.

Great post HQ. The whole post. I give ther Cavs credit. This is a dogfight. It was painful to watch but the Cavs earned it.Webber has never been the same since Chauncey made those comments about how he was uncomfortable with the ball in Webber's hands so much...it was like turning off a light switch.
Thanks Bill...Im glad "someone' got the jest of it.:pound: :pound:

Its funny that you mentioned that game. First thing that you have to realize old skool is that i'm only 29 years of age. So for me to watch that game and truly understand everything that is going on would have been a marvel. Second I have seen that game on espn classic many times, and I belive it went 3 overtimes and Zeke had something like 45 pts and 15 assists(could be wrong about the assists). I have been a die-hard Piston fan since 1986 when I started to really get into basketball and have had the amazing opportunity to see us win big games and lose them also. I have seen us win titles and lose them also. Like you I have had sleeplessness nights pondering how we could won some of those games and days of euphoria after we were victorious. I am not questioning your loyalty old skool, but the series is only tied and just because we lost last night doesnt mean that the basketball world as we know it is gonna end. You have to support your team no matter what, its what "true" fans do.
I agree, but Ex its "OK" to get mad. My daughter once had a science fair. She entered and was totally "ate up." Becuase she didnt study and plan her project right. I told her I loved her and proceded to chop her head off. I keep it in a mason jar over the sink for her sisters to see. ....And understand. But I tell her how much i love her when I pass by the sink. everyday...just like I love the Pistons....understand?:sssh:

Thanks Bill...Im glad "someone' got the jest of it.:pound: :pound:

I got it too...did you post all of the answers yet??:)

This is my point. I was saying that there are all types and levels of Piston fans here. But they are alll fans. Ex was saying if you get upset then arent 'a fan". All I was saying its a lot , A LOT of us that have seen a LOT of games, good and bad, and that if we want to holler ...fine...if not...fine.

If you lived through the Teal years then you are a super fan in my book.

If you lived through the Teal years then you are a super fan in my book.

This is much worse than the teal years because at least back then, you could admit the team had no chance of winning it all and expect nothing from them.

I don't understand the negativity here. Cleveland is good. Even though we lost, we played well. Neither team had an easy go of it on their home floor, yet each held serve.

We were in worse shape last year and came out of it. And we all know that the our team hasn't brought out the A-game yet.

Maybe Sheed will come out fired up from the get-go next game. Maybe Chauncey has regained his stroke. Let's give them a chance to show some heart.

I don't understand the negativity here. Cleveland is good. Even though we lost, we played well. Neither team had an easy go of it on their home floor, yet each held serve.

We were in worse shape last year and came out of it. And we all know that the our team hasn't brought out the A-game yet.

Maybe Sheed will come out fired up from the get-go next game. Maybe Chauncey has regained his stroke. Let's give them a chance to show some heart.

The Pistons could have either been swept or down 3-2 at this stage with a few breaks going the Cavs way. That in my book is no way to "earn" victories.

I don't understand the negativity here.

I am wondering the same thing here. 2-2 series lead going back home when you are playing not at your top level is not that bad. Did everyone expect that the Pistons would cruise to wins? I try to look for a good in this and their is one. I thought they would of learned in the Bulls series. IF the Pistons make it to the Finals this fight by Cleveland will help the Pistons not get complacent against a San Antonio team that would easily beat the Pistons if they got to a quick series lead.

Freak out after a Game 5 loss.

I don't understand the negativity here. Cleveland is good. Even though we lost, we played well. Neither team had an easy go of it on their home floor, yet each held serve.

We were in worse shape last year and came out of it. And we all know that the our team hasn't brought out the A-game yet.

Maybe Sheed will come out fired up from the get-go next game. Maybe Chauncey has regained his stroke. Let's give them a chance to show some heart.

100% agreed.

The Pistons could have either been swept or down 3-2 at this stage with a few breaks going the Cavs way. That in my book is no way to "earn" victories.

Who said that the Pistons would lose Games 3 and 4 if the Cavs won either Game 1 or 2? I bet you the Pistons would come in with a much different mind set than.

You meant 3-1 not 3-2 right?

Who said that the Pistons would lose Games 3 and 4 if the Cavs won either Game 1 or 2? I bet you the Pistons would come in with a much different mind set than.

You meant 3-1 not 3-2 right?

Which was the last playoff series that the Pistons have stunk it up 4 games in a row? If you are still confident after the sub-par play in this series and do not agree that the Pistons are fortunate to be 2-2 in this series then so be it. Winning should be about execution, not fortune or luck. If the Pistons had played well at least a couple of games and were still 2-2 I wouldn't have bothered a bit.

Meant 3-1.

This is much worse than the teal years because at least back then, you could admit the team had no chance of winning it all and expect nothing from them.

You would rather have no chance at all than being a slight underdog?

You would rather have no chance at all than being a slight underdog?

Let me clarify. I would rather have no chance and not have to worry about expecting anything from this group. Than to have a contender and have to suffer through watching them piss pee it away with half-assed efforts and an "if it ain't rough..." smirk on their face after humiliating losses to lesser opponents.

I don't understand the negativity here. Cleveland is good...

Cleveland isn't THAT good. They might be good enough to be competitive, but we should not be struggling hard to get wins against this team in the playoffs. "D. Gib" should not be coming off the bench to dump 21 on us. Gooden should not be so open that he has time to order popcorn before shooting the ball. Detroit should NOT be only putting forth visible effort AFTER half time.

Cleveland is decent, but is in no way equivalent to this team. However, as we always do, we are making the crappiest of all scrubs look like 1st year all-stars with our lackluster efforts. For once, these guys need to get worried, mad, scared, pissed, irritated, or whatever the hell they need to get in order to play a full 48 mins. and stop all this pacing for the 2nd half BS. Last year it was only Chauncey taking the 1st half off...now it's almost the whole damn team. Stop playing like frightened children. If you get early fouls, sit the F*** down and let the other 7 freaking invisible entities on the bench do what they get paid to do....relieve your lazy asses when you get in foul trouble.

But for God's sake....PLAY HARD THE WHOLE GAME.

Cleveland isn't THAT good. They might be good enough to be competitive, but we should not be struggling hard to get wins against this team in the playoffs. "D. Gib" should not be coming off the bench to dump 21 on us. Gooden should not be so open that he has time to order popcorn before shooting the ball. Detroit should NOT be only putting forth visible effort AFTER half time.

Cleveland is decent, but is in no way equivalent to this team. However, as we always do, we are making the crappiest of all scrubs look like 1st year all-stars with our lackluster efforts. For once, these guys need to get worried, mad, scared, pissed, irritated, or whatever the hell they need to get in order to play a full 48 mins. and stop all this pacing for the 2nd half BS. Last year it was only Chauncey taking the 1st half off...now it's almost the whole damn team. Stop playing like frightened children. If you get early fouls, sit the F*** down and let the other 7 freaking invisible entities on the bench do what they get paid to do....relieve your lazy asses when you get in foul trouble.

But for God's sake....PLAY HARD THE WHOLE GAME.



We've not had more than a 5 point lead this whole series. They need to choose any 3 of the following for today..........worried, mad, scared, pissed, or irritated.

Let me clarify. I would rather have no chance and not have to worry about expecting anything from this group. Than to have a contender and have to suffer through watching them piss pee it away with half-assed efforts and an "if it ain't rough..." smirk on their face after humiliating losses to lesser opponents.

I actually know what you mean. That 3-time champ attitude without the hardware. What are going to do? I would still rather take the bonus coverage over going out in April.