34-32 was the final with App. State kicking a late field goal.

Gotta be the most embarrassing moment in UM football history. Enjoy it State fans! :pound:

34-32 was the final with App. State kicking a late field goal.

Gotta be the most embarrassing moment in UM football history. Enjoy it State fans! :pound:

:djparty::dancingparty::ner-ner::whoo::roll:

LOL Tater!

Michigan stunned by Div. I-AA opponent; MSU wins in a rout:


Michigan stunned by Div. I-AA opponent; MSU wins in a rout (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070901/UPDATE/709010417/1131/SPORTS0201)


Appalachian State Mountaineers, NCAA Football, Michigan Wolverines - CBSSports.com (http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAF_20070901_APLST@MI)

Blame this on shoddy defense in the first half and terrible defense in the last 2 minutes. We have seen this scenario before. Some bad calls by Carr to go with Henne's somewhat shoddy passing. Ammarti Edwards an undefeated 19 year old sophomore for Appalachian State clearly outplayed Henne with sone on the mark passes and nice running up the middle.

A great game by Hart, but for some reason I guess due to a minor thigh injury, he was held out for key parts of the game....He scored 3 of Michigans TD's and had 188 yeards, but when he could have been out there to extend a series on a third down or even been there for the two - 2 point conversions, he was not on the field. :confused:

The new kicker had two kicks blocked and on that last one, the blocker was not even touched. Two 2 point conversions were muffled. Special teams and defense need to be analyzed here.

Applachian State is the defending back to back D-2 champions so they were no slouch, but Carr obviously will be subject to criticism for not having his team prepared to play today. Apple State can now take their $400,000 payday for coming to the bighouse to be a patsy and laugh at the overated Wolverines all way back to North Carolina.

Going for a 2-point PAT in the 3rd quarter is almost always the wrong decision.

Dre, I didn't see the game but it sounds like many things went perilously wrong for UM. I hate to see them lose like this to App. State in a home opener. It doesn't seem right for some reason.

However, I would like to see UM alums come down hard on Carr and the coaching staff. I think powerful alums need to call for Carr's head to get that do-nothing AD at UM to do something about the head coach situation there.

Dre, I didn't see the game but it sounds like many things went perilously wrong for UM. I hate to see them lose like this to App. State in a home opener. It doesn't seem right for some reason.

However, I would like to see UM alums come down hard on Carr and the coaching staff. I think powerful alums need to call for Carr's head to get that do-nothing AD at UM to do something about the head coach situation there.

Me and the wife watched it on the Big 10 net. It looked bad in the first half. Apple state was just to quick and it took the Wolverines awhile to figure out what they were doing. Too many mistakes on both sides of the ball and some bad play calling. Like Fleabag said on the Big10 Det news sites, this will be another ESPN Classic where Michigan is on the losing end. :nod: Team captains Mike Hart & Jake Long came out and did the press conference as Carr was to ashamed make an appearance.

Team captains Mike Hart & Jake Long came out and did the press conference as Carr was to ashamed make an appearance.

Gutless move by Carr if you ask me. He's the coach. The buck should stop with him.

The weird thing is, I think UM will still regroup and play well in the Big 10. No national title chance this year but if they beat OSU and MSU, UM fans can say, "Hey, you lost to the team that lost to Appalachian State!" :pound:

34-32 was the final with App. State kicking a late field goal.

Gotta be the most embarrassing moment in UM football history. Enjoy it State fans! :pound:

:dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty: :dancingparty:

Hey Buck,

C'mon, that's not like an OSU fan. Normally, Buckeye fans want UM to be ranked as high as possible before Tressell takes Carr to the woodshed. What gives?

Hey Buck,

C'mon, that's not like an OSU fan. Normally, Buckeye fans want UM to be ranked as high as possible before Tressell takes Carr to the woodshed. What gives?

I've never never never never never ever rooted for UM. I just can't justify it for ANY reason. As far as what's good for OSU, I think that depends on UM. If they hold on to Carr after this year or promote from within, I think this could be devestating to them. Especially with little tressel in East Lansing. I think Dantonio is really going to turn that program around. If UM takes their dominance of MSU lightly, that could be a huge mistake. UM could really take a hit recruiting wise so that is another reason for me to celebrate. It could backfire though. They may just clean house and not promote from within. That could be bad news. From what I hear though, UM likes to promote from within, which is fine with me! :MusicBigGrin:

I do have a number of UM friends over at detnews Big Ten forum so I can't bring myself to rub it in over there. I don't know too many UM fans here so I guess I was letting my excitement out of the bag. I am still in complete shock. I think UM will recover in time for the OSU game. I expect a tough game in November. I MUST tease razor over there though. I won't be able to take it if I didn't. Razor was just on a radio program talking about how UM will finish #2 this year. Wow. I can't wait to remind him of that. I will after all these new name posters fall away. As you know, anytime there is a major event, you get a slew of people coming out of the woodwork you have never seen before.

I've never never never never never ever rooted for UM. I just can't justify it for ANY reason. As far as what's good for OSU, I think that depends on UM. If they hold on to Carr after this year or promote from within, I think this could be devestating to them. Especially with little tressel in East Lansing. I think Dantonio is really going to turn that program around. If UM takes their dominance of MSU lightly, that could be a huge mistake. UM could really take a hit recruiting wise so that is another reason for me to celebrate. It could backfire though. They may just clean house and not promote from within. That could be bad news. From what I hear though, UM likes to promote from within, which is fine with me! :MusicBigGrin:

I do have a number of UM friends over at detnews Big Ten forum so I can't bring myself to rub it in over there. I don't know too many UM fans here so I guess I was letting my excitement out of the bag. I am still in complete shock. I think UM will recover in time for the OSU game. I expect a tough game in November. I MUST tease razor over there though. I won't be able to take it if I didn't. Razor was just on a radio program talking about how UM will finish #2 this year. Wow. I can't wait to remind him of that. I will after all these new name posters fall away. As you know, anytime there is a major event, you get a slew of people coming out of the woodwork you have never seen before.


Yeah, don't let Razor get away with that. LOL. I hope UM does not promote within. AD and the head football coach should both be shown the door. Maybe this is the silver lining in all of this for UM fans.

Yeah, don't let Razor get away with that. LOL.


Here is what I will post over there when the time is right. :pound:



Fri. 08/24/07 03:07 PM
radio predictions


The Buzz crew made our preseason picks today. One of interest here is the Top 5 teams. Mine was:

5. Florida
4. West Virginia
3. Texas
2. Michigan
1. USC

Here's my rationale as to why and how: USC, Michigan, Texas and West Virginia all go undefeated. The SEC champ, Florida, gets beaten somewhere.

Texas, getting a boost from their conference title game, vaults into the BCS title game against USC. USC kills them.

Michigan and West Virginia play, with Michigan winning a shootout.

Michigan moves up to #2 in the final poll.

I could be wrong here.

Let the debating begin.
michigan razorback (http://info.detnews.com/sports/lettersindex.cfm?username=michigan razorback), little rock, ar

Lloyd needs to be fired. Our AD needs to realize that when you schedule a second-tier school, you will always lose. Win big? That's great! You beat a bowl-subdivision team. Lose? BIGGEST UPSET IN NCAA FOOTBALL HISTORY OMG ESPNGASM. He also needs to realize that you don't schedule a team that's won back-to-back national championships, not matter how bad they appear on paper. These subdivision teams are not known quantities. Play FIU, or UAB. My God. Give me another school to root for. I've had it with the incompetence. I live in Michigan, but I'm just not feeling anything they do. Constantly overrated. Outcoached. Underachieving. Give me another university to root for after two more disappointing seasons, Buckeyes#1. Give me hope by recruiting a quarterback with speed faster than a 5.1 40. Carr doesn't deserve to coach the winningest program in college football history. After this loss I can only hope God takes pity on Lloyd and gives him a personality.

Does anybody know exactly when App state was scheduled? I know some games scheduled 5 years in advanced. Did they have a 2 -10 season a few years back and Michigan scheduled them just to be a cupcake on the schedule?

Obviously they looked at both the OSU and USC games tapes and knew where the Wolverines flaws were defensively. Of course it also appears that Carr and his staff didn't look at Apple State's D-2 championship game. The have now won 15 in a row and the Wolverines have lost 3 in a row.

This is what I hate about college football. One loss in the 1st game and the whole season is toast.

Unlike MSU fans the goal ever year is to be the #1 team and not simply to beat 1 or 2 rivals. There is no way Michigan is going to be in that championship game now.

This is what I hate about college football. One loss in the 1st game and the whole season is toast.

Unlike MSU fans the goal ever year is to be the #1 team and not simply to beat 1 or 2 rivals. There is no way Michigan is going to be in that championship game now.

LOL.
Take your cheap shots at MSU in your teams misery and humiliation. MSU never lost to Appalachian State. But I guess as you say...our goal isn't to schedule automatic wins so we can be the #1 team.

Oh and by the way, MSU won 55-18 today.

U of M is the laughingstock of the nation today.
Even in MSU's lowest moment they never sunk that low.

Yep, this one loss cooked U of M.
Do they deserve any better? Do they deserve a National Championship. Sounds like a sense of entitlement to me.

Perhaps they can schedule a High school team for their first game next year. :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:: pound:I love it...I tell you...I love it! :stirthepot:

I have mixed loyalties. I'm a long-time U 0f M fan but I'm sending much of my paycheck to MSU for my daughter's tuition. This is possibly the biggest upset in the history od college football...there is no way this can be swept undet the carpet. Lloyd Carr did something worse than Gary Moeller could even imagine....this is the end for Carr.

Carr has totally lost it. This will be his last season no doubt. The special team play has been bad for 4 seasons now. When will somebody get it fixed? If a starter is not getting the job done he shoud be benched. Open it up to some competition. They said on the news that the people from Boone, Montana were dancing in the street when the buzzer sounded. They shocked the world.

Hart is soft and injury prone. I don't know how he thinks he is going to survive in the NFL when the players are bigger, stronger and faster.

This is what I hate about college football. One loss in the 1st game and the whole season is toast.

Unlike MSU fans the goal ever year is to be the #1 team and not simply to beat 1 or 2 rivals. There is no way Michigan is going to be in that championship game now.

LOL. Michigan has much bigger problems than getting to the national championship game. They are the laughing-stock of college athletics right now.

LOL. Michigan has much bigger problems than getting to the national championship game. They are the laughing-stock of college athletics right now.

That's true. They will never live down this game. Appalachian State will never forgrt it.

Thats what I mean. 1st game and the seasons already over. What other sport is that unforgiving?

Here is a team that thought they should be playing for the national championship 9 months ago, now they can't play for national title this year even if they won their remaining 10 or 11 games and every other team in Div 1 has at least two losses. Ranking wise, they save a little face by coming back to lead for 2 mins, but if they had lost 28-14 or by more than 2 TD's they probably drop out of the top 25.

Michigan needs a convincing win over Oregon to save Carr's job temporarily, but a loss to the Ducks and then one to offensively challenged Fighting Irish the week after next then I think Carr is fired the next morning.

Did anybody notice on that last play how two Mountaineers lined up on the right side and there was only one Wolverine lined up to block them and he missed both of them....

Just listened to Lloyd's presser. Geez, what a joke this guy is. I would've preferred a John L. Smith "weirdo" tirade to Lloyd's dead-dull reaction to this. I guess he was just in shock.

He also made a few thinly veiled attacks on his "young players." What a wuss.

I wish he'd worn a different shirt other than one with an "M" on it for the presser.

I used to be a huge UM fan. I even attended the '97 title game in Pasadena. But over the years as I have watched a gutless coach squander opportunity after opportunity, I have been unable to support this team wholeheartedly. There is something to be said for running a relatively clean program and graduating players. I do think those things are important. But I also think a coach needs to be evaluated on achieving potential in ALL areas. That's why John L. Smith had to go. His teams played well the first halves of seasons and then went to sleep. At least MSU knows when to dump their coaches. After all, they've had a lot of practice.

Just listened to Lloyd's presser. Geez, what a joke this guy is. I would've preferred a John L. Smith "weirdo" tirade to Lloyd's dead-dull reaction to this. I guess he was just in shock.

He also made a few thinly veiled attacks on his "young players." What a wuss.

I wish he'd worn a different shirt other than one with an "M" on it for the presser.

.

He did look like he was in a state of shock with those thick glasses. As far as the shirt with the 'M" on it, I bought 3 Michigan t-Shirts when I was back in Detroit in July, and now I don't when I will be able to wear them without someone laughing and bringing up this game.

Then again I brought some new Piston T shirts and a Tiger old english 'D" shirt and I'm stiil waiting for the tigers to wake up so that I wear that Tiger one proudly somewhere :sssh: > Hopefully the Piston shirts don't remain folded in my drawer all winter like the Michigan shirts might be...

He did look like he was in a state of shock with those thick glasses. As far as the shirt with the 'M" on it, I bought 3 Michigan t-Shirts when I was back in Detroit in July, and now I don't when I will be able to wear them without someone laughing and bringing up this game.

Then again I brought some new Piston T shirts and a Tiger old english 'D" shirt and I'm stiil waiting for the tigers to wake up so that I wear that Tiger one proudly somewhere :sssh: > Hopefully the Piston shirts don't remain folded in my drawer all winter like the Michigan shirts might be...

Dre, this UM loss reminds me, for some reason, of the Webber called timeout in the title game. Just made me want to hang my head. People kept saying to me, "Hey, could you take a timeout and come over here?" :pound:

Thats what I mean. 1st game and the seasons already over. What other sport is that unforgiving?

That's a major qualm I have with college football. The NBA might arguably have too many games, but at least the best team generally wins, which appeals to me. That and I still can't keep track of all the divisions, conferences, bowls, BCS, etc in college sports. Oh well, I'm on a high right now because BYU just won their season opener against Arizona and it was my first in-stadium football game on any level. Just a blast. :)

Michigan paid those guys $400,000 to come into their house and take a butt whooping.

It's kind of like the Washington Generals getting paid to lose to the Globetrotters...but guess what??? The Generals pull a fast one...

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL:p_welldone::rofl:

Ohio State had better watch out now. There is nothing else that can "save" UM's season other than beating Ohio State. Not even a Big 10 'ship would save it for them.

It is a very big thing to ruin your season in the first game, but that is what UM did today.

That's gonna leave a mark!!!

Dre, this UM loss reminds me, for some reason, of the Webber called timeout in the title game. Just made me want to hang my head. People kept saying to me, "Hey, could you take a timeout and come over here?" :pound:

I know what ya mean Zoo, I am a huge Michigan fan even though I am an EMU alumni. (I think we lost to Pitt today..again) Every Wolverine FB loss to Notre dame, OSU or a bowl game loss where they were just edged out, I feel bad and want to kick the dog...(sorry PETA).. I felt the same way when the BB team lost to Indiana in 1976, NC Charlotte in 77, and Duke and North Carolna in 92 and 93. :(

I will be over this loss probably in a couple of days, but I know the folks around AA will be walking around sayin this is F'up for at least another week or so listening to the local media and the guys from PTI, Around the Horn, the Sports Reporters and Jim Rome, ragging on the Wolverines...

That's a major qualm I have with college football. The NBA might arguably have too many games, but at least the best team generally wins, which appeals to me. That and I still can't keep track of all the divisions, conferences, bowls, BCS, etc in college sports. Oh well, I'm on a high right now because BYU just won their season opener against Arizona and it was my first in-stadium football game on any level. Just a blast. :)

I went there so I am naturally stuck being a fan. I may catch at most a game and usually try and watch waterver bowl game they are in so this is not as crushing for me as other fans.

I have mixed loyalties. I'm a long-time U 0f M fan but I'm sending much of my paycheck to MSU for my daughter's tuition. This is possibly the biggest upset in the history od college football...there is no way this can be swept undet the carpet. Lloyd Carr did something worse than Gary Moeller could even imagine....this is the end for Carr.I have the opposite situation. As a State grad, I've always despised UM...until my daughter started going there last fall. She has a student season ticket. I called her a couple times after the game to razz her a little, but only got her voicemail...I don't think she wants to talk to me LOL!

Carr gotta hit the road.

I went there so I am naturally stuck being a fan. I may catch at most a game and usually try and watch waterver bowl game they are in so this is not as crushing for me as other fans.
I wish I could be like you. Thank g-d the game was not on TV, I might have broken it.

But then it got worse, I read that if Carr implodes this season, he may want to come back, just to prove this year was a fluke.

Somebody fire his stone-aged coaching, non-adjusting, wrong qb starting, butt now.

Somebody fire his stone-aged coaching, non-adjusting, wrong qb starting, butt now.

This sums it up very well, 16. UM alums need to be out in full force on AD Bill Martin's butt.

I have always backed Lloyd Carr the same way I back Flip Saunders. At this point I've always been able to accept losses to good teams like OSU, Notre Dame, and Southern Cal. Even losing to lower eschelon teams like Eastern Michigan, Michigan State, and Indiana isn't so bad because almost all teams lose at least one bad game per season. Losing to Apple State is completely unacceptable because their in 1AA. I would propose that Lloyd Carr step down after this season. He is to blame for this loss. He was unable to make adjustments during the game that would have stopped this embarrassment. I can no longer support him as coach. As far as MSU is concerned........let them have their cake, since they don't get to taste excellence very often.............

Even losing to lower eschelon teams like Eastern Michigan, Michigan State, and Indiana isn't so bad because almost all teams lose at least one bad game per season. Losing to Apple State is completely unacceptable because their in 1AA.

As far as MSU is concerned........let them have their cake, since they don't get to taste excellence very often.............


Huh? What is the criteria for being considered a lower echelon team? Losing to a 1AA school? Or even scheduling one in the first place because they are afraid to lose to a decent team and then complaining they never should have scheduled them in the first place? :pound::pound:

Yessir...the cake is indeed yummy.:chef2: And there is plenty to go around for the entire college sports world to enjoy.

Huh? What is the criteria for being considered a lower echelon team? Losing to a 1AA school? Or even scheduling one in the first place because they are afraid to lose to a decent team and then complaining they never should have scheduled them in the first place? :pound::pound:

Yessir...the cake is indeed yummy.:chef2: And there is plenty to go around for the entire college sports world to enjoy.


If you're not sure what a lower eschleon football program consists of, just look at the MSU record for the last 20 or so years. After so many years of futility and frustration, you folks deserve to gloat, even if for a little while. I've always figured that MSU should change its football mascot from "Sparty" to "Frusty".......:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:... ...:)

If you're not sure what a lower eschleon football program consists of, just look at the MSU record for the last 20 or so years. After so many years of futility and frustration, you folks deserve to gloat, even if for a little while. I've always figured that MSU should change its football mascot from "Sparty" to "Frusty".......:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:... ...:)My daughter keeps telling me that MSU means nothing to UM, but it looks like the old MSU trashing is a UM fan's only consolation now :tinfoil3::violin:

My daughter keeps telling me that MSU means nothing to UM, but it looks like the old MSU trashing is a UM fan's only consolation now :tinfoil3::violin:

Michigan deserves the slams for losing such a game. I'm saddened myself. Just defending the Maize and blue for its good history.....

Michigan deserves the slams for losing such a game. I'm saddened myself. Just defending the Maize and blue for its good history.....

I'm looking forward to the game this year...unfortunately, the team that has nothing to play for usually wins. That's bad news for the Sparty's! :caked:

I'm looking forward to the game this year...unfortunately, the team that has nothing to play for usually wins. That's bad news for the Sparty's! :caked:From the sound and look of things so far, Dantonio may be finally changing all of that :fingerscr

Spartans roll in Dantonio's debut, rock on after U-M's loss (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070902/SPORTS0202/709020347/1004/SPORTS&imw=Y)

Count me in as a Sparty fan now. Got the S on the hat instead of an M.

I've been re-thinking my position on Lloyd and have decided that the longer they keep him, the better. :D :stirthepot:

I don't think it's happened yet, but he is on his way to being a detriment to one of the best recruiting programs in the nation.

actually i don't think michigan has had a top 10 recruiting class in a few years.... we are getting nowhere the talent potential that ohio state and other major programs have been the last few years, I think we were a year to late in showing carr the door.... should have made a run for the former grandvalley state coach, his style of coaching with major recruiting pull.... would have been fun.

I've been re-thinking my position on Lloyd and have decided that the longer they keep him, the better. :D :stirthepot:

I don't think it's happened yet, but he is on his way to being a detriment to one of the best recruiting programs in the nation.

UM opponents should all be thinking that way. However, UM should be pretty focused the rest of the season -- at least one would think. I think App State got their attention. It should be an interesting rest of the season to say the least.

I think App State, with its speed, could have beaten a lot of other D-I teams, but Michigan shouldn't be one of them.

actually i don't think michigan has had a top 10 recruiting class in a few years.... we are getting nowhere the talent potential that ohio state and other major programs have been the last few years, I think we were a year to late in showing carr the door.... should have made a run for the former grandvalley state coach, his style of coaching with major recruiting pull.... would have been fun.

Michigan has had between the 5th best and 13th best recruiting classes in the nation each of the last 4 years. They are always among the elite. They are currently ranked 10th for the 2008 class.

http://rivals100.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2004

The recruiting may be decent, but then the coaches have to know what to with the talent once they arrive on campus. They still are lacking speed at some of the key postions on defense and hopefully once current coaching regime is gone,:sssh: they can recruit the type of QB that usually beats them..:stirthepot:.

Applachian State probably could have scored 28 points on most div 1 teams they would have played Saturday, but still should have lost as most top 15 teams should have laid 45 on them and still won. (including Michigan)

Lloyd Carr = John Cooper

Lloyd Carr = John Cooper

Yeah, but even Cooper didn't have such an embarrassing loss.

Mike Rosenberg's column brings a little perspective:

MICHAEL ROSENBERG: ARMORED CARR: Despite setback, coach, school’s program secure (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/COL22/709040355/1048/SPORTS)

http://theapp.appstate.edu/mambots/content/multithumb/thumbs/204e5db52d365d369ffa295b783a1721.JPG

This photo is from the Appalachian State Newspaper. The whole campus went crazy after the victory.

Wow, talk about a coach who ABSOLUTELY KNOWS he has job security. To admit that you're going back to "the old drawing board" after Week 1. Gotta love that UM athletic department. Helluva job Bill Martin's doing down there.

ESPN - Carr says Michigan football starting from scratch - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3002828)

Wow, talk about a coach who ABSOLUTELY KNOWS he has job security. To admit that you're going back to "the old drawing board" after Week 1. Gotta love that UM athletic department. Helluva job Bill Martin's doing down there.

ESPN - Carr says Michigan football starting from scratch - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3002828)

I think Michael Rosenberg's Freep article put things in perspective:



Hmm. Maybe it has something to do with the fact he has won almost 76% of his games, won the school's only national title since 1948, has never had a losing season, has never been in trouble with the NCAA or the law and has finished in the top 10 in three of the last four years.
How many coaches in the history of college football have been fired with that resume?
Any?


http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/COL22/709040355/1048/SPORTS

He has had tremendous success...and after I have calmed down from my initial anger, it's easier to see the big picture.

Like one of the articles says, Appalacian State could be betetr than a host of Div 1 schools including all in the MAC and probably could have beaten one or two other big 10 teams. The problem is "M" wasn't prepared and probably took the Mountaineers for granted.

Jim Rome questioned why the Wolverines would schedule a team that won back to back national championships?? Well maybe they need a team like this to show them what needs to be fix..however much to their chagrin they thought they would win it. To put in perpective, the mens BB team needs to schedule more games vs tough opponents in the first couple of games to to get their season in gear instead of getting blown out by UCLA and Duke at the end of their non-conference schedules....:stirthepot:

Ouch:

ESPN - Michigan on outside looking in at Top 25 - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3004279)

The final fallout from a disastrous opening weekend for Michigan came Tuesday, when the Wolverines dropped all the way out of The Associated Press Top 25, an unprecedented fall from No. 5 to unranked.

Since the AP poll expanded to 25 teams in 1989, no team has taken a bigger tumble in one week.

Jim Rome questioned why the Wolverines would schedule a team that won back to back national championships?? Well maybe they need a team like this to show them what needs to be fix..however much to their chagrin they thought they would win it. To put in perpective, the mens BB team needs to schedule more games vs tough opponents in the first couple of games to to get their season in gear instead of getting blown out by UCLA and Duke at the end of their non-conference schedules....:stirthepot:

Great post, Dre. I had no trouble with them scheduling App. State. Rome is an idiot, at least for that comment.

D4E, UM never shoulda been at No. 5 to begin with.

I think Michael Rosenberg's Freep article put things in perspective:




MICHAEL ROSENBERG: ARMORED CARR: Despite setback, coach, school's program secure (http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/COL22/709040355/1048/SPORTS)

He has had tremendous success...and after I have calmed down from my initial anger, it's easier to see the big picture.
He did have tremendous success and it is a great achievement. The question in my mind is whether someone else could achieve more with this team. This also reminds me of the situation with Pistons where there's possibly a team worthy a championship, but it stops a step or two from reaching the summit.

Ouch:

ESPN - Michigan on outside looking in at Top 25 - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3004279)

To bad Appalachian State did not qualify to get one of the "others receiving votes".:)

No big deal...Michigan should forget about last Saturday and just concentrate on winning the next two ABC televised games to get some credibility back. It may take all season to get back in the top 25 but who cares, just work on the D and win the next 6 (5 are at home). Dropping them out of the top 25 was a knee jerk reaction by all of the voters as the hype was in full affect after the blocked FG attempt. Now if they they lose to both Oregon and the Irish the next couple of weeks then yes the full drop was justified. Wonder how far they would have dropped if they actuall made that FG and won the gane by a point??

Unfortunately for Michigan, Apple State does not have another team on their schedule that they could prove to anyone that the Michigan win was legit. In other words they should roll thru their schedule with ease with a bunch of no name stiffs like Wofford, Furman, Chattanooga, Etc.

Jim Rome questioned why the Wolverines would schedule a team that won back to back national championships??Did UM schedule App State after last season or a year or two before?

If they scheduled it after last season, then that WAS a stupid question by Rome...what would perennial powerhouse UM have to fear from a I-AA, irregardless of record?

http://theapp.appstate.edu/mambots/content/multithumb/thumbs/204e5db52d365d369ffa295b783a1721.JPG

This photo is from the Appalachian State Newspaper. The whole campus went crazy after the victory.From what I read, the App State fans went to their 16,000 seat stadium and tore down the goalposts after the game.

That's why you play the games. I'll refuse to look at Apple State as a formidable competitor. Many are doing just that in the media. I hope they become 1A next season. Michigan needed to win that game and they didn't.............

Lloyd Carr = John Cooper

I use to call Carr this but now I think it compliments Carr too much. Cooper wasn't this bad.

Cooper wasn't that bad but an upgrade was in order...like going from Rick Carlisle to Larry Brown.

How is OSU going to feel when they lose to a team that lost to Apalachian?

How is OSU going to feel when they lose to a team that lost to Apalachian?


:pound:Good point.

How is OSU going to feel when they lose to a team that lost to Apalachian?

Not any worse than normal. UM after 10 more games will be a totally different team than the one that played last Saturday. In fact I predicted UM would beat us this year. But that doesn't mean we lost to Appalachian State. If you want to use that logic, you could prove almost every year that an MAC team should be the National Champion. Ludicrous logic. Sorry if I said this too blunt. :MusicBigGrin: I just read what Darko said and I'm a little honked right now. Then I came on here and read this.

Not any worse than normal. UM after 10 more games will be a totally different team than the one that played last Saturday. In fact I predicted UM would beat us this year. But that doesn't mean we lost to Appalachian State. If you want to use that logic, you could prove almost every year that an MAC team should be the National Champion. Ludicrous logic. Sorry if I said this too blunt. :MusicBigGrin: I just read what Darko said and I'm a little honked right now. Then I came on here and read this.


You show up and start spreading all this logic :).........Michigan's loss was anything but logical..........IMHO

In fact I predicted UM would beat us this year.

With Henne at the helm, I'm not so sure. I have no confidence in him at all in BIG games.

With Henne at the helm, I'm not so sure. I have no confidence in him at all in BIG games.


The last two seasons it was the play callingas it relates to the passing game....75% of the passes thrown were short of the first down marker?? If you want a first down throw it beyond there. The running backs could get on the ground what was being thrown in the air. Did the coaches draw up thse short passes or did Henne work as lone assassin on the field??

Funny the Lions used the same setup two years ago with Garcia throwing short of the marker, so maybe it was contagious in SE Michigan:)

And to continue the story, is anyone watching the game right now?

7-32 and counting.

At least the Shock put up a fight for the first half before folding. The Michigan tacklers avoided touching Ducks like there carrying the plague and they gave up in the first quarter as they could not even tackle a the guy that intercepted Henne's pass in the endzone. Not to be out done the real tacklers on defense were even worse giving up three long bombs and letting the backs run through the front line and secondary like they weren't there.

Chad Henne gave up at halftime as he realized that he couldn't compete and stayed in the clubhouse.. The defense is bad enough not being able to handle the spread offense, I think the Wolverines need to recruit a QB that can run it and then install it along with a full slate of new coaches.

You know what this means...Appalachian State wasn't that good, the Wolverines are just plain BAD!!!!

In da 'big house', 39-7 going into the 4th. Apparently App State can no longer be considered a fluke by UM faithful.

But if Penn State beats Notre Dame (ND up 7-0 in the 1st), Lloyd's job will probably be safe for at least another week. :P

In da 'big house', 39-7 going into the 4th. Apparently App State can no longer be considered a fluke by UM faithful.

But if Penn State beats Notre Dame (ND up 7-0 in the 1st), Lloyd's job will probably be safe for at least another week. :P

For those keeping score, App State won again today to over some girl name Lyn-Rhyne 48-7.

IF ND beats PSU, they will be favored next week and Lloyd can possibly go for the upset of the Irish:stirthepot:

For those keeping score, App State won again today to over some girl name Lyn-Rhyne 48-7.

IF ND beats PSU, they will be favored next week and Lloyd can possibly go for the upset of the Irish:stirthepot::pound:

I'm loving U of M's misfortunes, I can't lie. But I do feel bad for the classy U of M fans like Dre (who are in the minority, from my experience).

Anyhow, I know the Sparty's are always only a week away from humiliating themselves. They always are...but it's nice while those rare good times exist.:MusicBigGrin:

The game today was awful........We haven't won since the passing of Bo Schembechler (0-4). I'm trying to think of what compares to this........Oh yea, being an MSU football fan...........The University now has a decision to make about Lloyd.............Looks like more losses to come..........

Wow. I think UofM fans must be stunned.

The game today was awful........We haven't won since the passing of Bo Schembechler (0-4). I'm trying to think of what compares to this........Oh yea, being an MSU football fan...........The University now has a decision to make about Lloyd.............Looks like more losses to come..........I've heard a couple of guys call in to Stoney & Wojo on WDFN (Detroit's sports talk radio) mention the same thing about UM's fortunes since Bo just last week. Lloyd has seemed pretty lost since Bo.

I've heard a couple of guys call in to Stoney & Wojo on WDFN (Detroit's sports talk radio) mention the same thing about UM's fortunes since Bo just last week. Lloyd has seemed pretty lost since then.


It had been since 1979 that Michigan had lost THREE in a row. Now with 4 straight losses, Lloyd is probably in over his head.

The game today was awful........We haven't won since the passing of Bo Schembechler (0-4)..........


May be time to exhume Bo and put his stuffed body on the sidelines and play a tape of him getting in somebody arse!

Ok sorry to offend some, but two things need to happen this week. First an open casting call for all coaches familiar with stopping mobile QB's and the spread offense and for coaches who know how to run the spread offense. Also in the spirit of the movie "Invincible", the AD needs to take some of those schloarships away and hold an open walkon tryout and see if they can find some players with speed and give the scholarships to them. Also look for some QB's who are mobile and similar to the last 2 that beat them:stirthepot:.

Today's game was the longest Michigan game in years... I can already see my alma mater EMU taking next week off to practice the spead offense lickin their chops anticipating their first win over Michigan in two weeks:)

Wow. I think UofM fans must be stunned.
Stunned would imply surprise. This has been a long time coming. Carr has coached with a seniority mentality, instead of meritocracy (a lot like Flip and LB).

Result, stiffs like Navarre and Henne starting, and horrible assistant coaches rarely getting sacked. We're reaping what we've sown.

May be time to exhume Bo and put his stuffed body on the sidelines and play a tape of him getting in somebody arse!

Ok sorry to offend some, but two things need to happen this week. First an open casting call for all coaches familiar with stopping mobile QB's and the spread offense and for coaches who know how to run the spread offense. Also in the spirit of the movie "Invincible", the AD needs to take some of those schloarships away and hold an open walkon tryout and see if they can find some players with speed and give the scholarships to them. Also look for some QB's who are mobile and similar to the last 2 that beat them:stirthepot:.

Today's game was the longest Michigan game in years... I can already see my alma mater EMU taking next week off to practice the spread offense lickin their chops anticipating their first win over Michigan in two weeks:)

Ok I think EMU won't play Michigan for four weeks, so maybe the Wolverines would have figured out how to win by then:)

Seems like the same media who rediculed them last week are now feeling sorry for them.

Ok I think EMU won't play Michigan for four weeks, so maybe the Wolverines would have figured out how to win by then:)

Seems like the same media who rediculed them last week are now feeling sorry for them.The EMU game is in a strange place. Usually, UM's conference schedule is uninterrupted and UM is playing MSU around that week.

And I'm STILL trying to figure out how UM got 7 of 11 games (including OSU) in AA. :confused:

At this point, I'm just amazed how good they've been over the past few years.

Total domination by Oregon :shout:

Perhaps the thread title should be changed from Michigan stunned by Appalachian State to Michigan stunned by ________. That way, it would apply every Saturday. :pound:

Perhaps the thread title should be changed from Michigan stunned by Appalachian State to Michigan stunned by ________. That way, it would apply every Saturday. :pound:

Yeah I thought about posting a comment that we need to change the name of this thread earlier. There are two teams remaining on the schedule that can stun them, Notre Dame and EMU, both of whom scored more than the Wolverines today. Other than those two games Michigan will probably be the underdogs in the others and some time in November we will be asking the question not heard ever in Ann Arbor?? If Michigan will become "Bowl eligible"

Just change thread to Michigan>stunned by ineptness!!

and some time in November we will be asking the question not heard ever in Ann Arbor?? If Michigan will become "Bowl eligible"

Just change thread to Michigan>stunned by ineptness!!
Um, I'm asking that question now. Considering we have Penn State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State. An upsurging MSU. We could easily lose 4 more games, let alone the rest of the schedule.

I haven't felt this bad since Westbrook threw that bomb.

I compare this to Chris Webber calling two illegal timeouts in a row in the title game. Appalachian State punches UM in the face; Oregon punches them in the gut.

What a debacle. I'm sure Lloyd will still keep his job for the season. I hate to see anyone embarrassed like this. I don't dislike Lloyd personally, but he is presiding over a terrible football team. And he isn't the right guy to fix it.

You can thank OSU for showing how to do it. 4 and 5 wide shows the inept nickel and dime packages that UM had and has now. And now that the top CB's are gone ---- those guys are the starters.

How's the lynch mob coming?
If he's here for OU and wins does he stay?

Actually, there are some guidelines at the UM for determining a coach's worthiness to stay on the job. The expectation for all coaches there is to finish in the top half of your conference each season. New coaches get some time to turn around a bad program. Michigan football has had a winning record in the conference now for about 40 straight years.

Is it true M is one of the highest scholastic schools east of the Mississippi?
Excluding the Ivy League of course.

First bowl game is next week. It has come early:

Michigan vs. Notre Dame in the Ineptitude Bowl.

Sponsors are already lining up: Krazy Glue, Solomon's Retirement Homes, Big and Tall Outfitters, Toadman's Hearing Aids.

Milli Vanilli is schedule to be the halftime entertainment because this game doesn't have enough phonies.

First bowl game is next week. It has come early:

Michigan vs. Notre Dame in the Ineptitude Bowl.

Sponsors are already lining up: Krazy Glue, Solomon's Retirement Homes, Big and Tall Outfitters, Toadman's Hearing Aids, Gloria's Gastric-Bypass Specialists.

Milli Vanilli is schedule to be the halftime entertainment because this game doesn't have enough phonies.

LOL at Milli Vanilli.

Hart looked bad in that Presser. I felt a bit(only a tad) bad for him since he's the only one who is playing well. He lied though saying how they will be fine and no worries.

His guarantee...I guess he had to. His team put him in a bad spot. Besides, Notre Dame Sux. Not really a bold prediction saying he guarantees victory. You would hope he cussed out his team in private after the game.Notre Dame can't beat anyone...well...maybe MSU in 2 weeks. :pound:

LOL at Milli Vanilli.

Hart looked bad in that Presser. I felt a bit(only a tad) bad for him since he's the only one who is playing well. He lied though saying how they will be fine and no worries.

His guarantee...I guess he had to. His team put him in a bad spot. Besides, Notre Dame Sux. Not really a bold prediction saying he guarantees victory. You would hope he cussed out his team in private after the game.Notre Dame can't beat anyone...well...maybe MSU in 2 weeks. :pound:
Hopefully Hart cussed out the coaches too and Henne for quitting at halftime....or was the injury that serious??


Question, can Manneham play QB? Need a QB that is mobile back there because Henne and his replacement were basic bums as it relates to moving the ball.

By the way Rob Pilatus died in 98, so only Milli would be there, no Vanilli.

They are putting up Carr audio bites on XM radio.
Carr sounds so washed up.
"When adversity knocks you down you do what do gotta do, forget all the rest."
What?
Darko talk to him for us please.

They are putting up Carr audio bites on XM radio.
Carr sounds so washed up.
"When adversity knocks you down you do what do gotta do, forget all the rest."
What?
Darko talk to him for us please.Carr sounded heavily sedated in his comments right after the game, but then...he always sounds like that.

You guys probably already saw this but I just now read it. Rob Parker really let them have it.

Face it: Wolverines are just terrible (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070909/SPORTS08/709090342/1004/SPORTS)

no kidding.
but why were they ranked so high?
they didn't reload.
not that the polls have a clue to begin with.

I am not surprised that they gave 39 points, the surprise is that they only scored 7??? I mean Henne didn't bail out until halftime:stirthepot:.

Hart guaranteed a win vs the Irish..is he playin defense in that game??

0-3 sad

0-3 sad


How about 0-4 with Irish and Penn State next ...Henne is out according to ESPN. I wonder if the Professor can suit up and play QB?

NOTEBOOK: QB Henne's status 'very doubtful' for Notre Dame (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070909/SPORTS06/709090707/-1/print)


ESPN - Michigan QB Henne out for Notre Dame game - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3012933)

I doubt the next guy is much better. This is a complete team collaspe.

How about 0-4 with Irish and Penn State next ...Henne is out according to ESPN. I wonder if the Professor can suit up and play QB?
prof's too smart to play for Lloyd ;)

ND has no running game and UM has no pass defense...this should be an epic battle :P

Kind of ironic that two of college football's most storied programs are facing off... with each of them looking only to regain their dignity.

You're right...it could easily be 0-4. And all four in da Big House.

The last time UM lost the first two home games in a season was 1959.....

The last time UM lost the first two home games in a season was 1959.....When's the last time UM lost the first three home games? :flame::diablo: :tape:

Well, credit to Mike Hart for backing up his bragging with some big-time yardage in the first half. I really had no idea how dreadful Notre Dame truly is. Their offensive line is astoundingly terrible, and their D-line isn't much better.

Well, credit to Mike Hart for backing up his bragging with some big-time yardage in the first half.

Pffft. Big deal. It doesn't take guts to guarantee a victory against another sorry 0-2 team.:behindsof

Hey, but U of M must be awesome now. I think they should get their number 5 ranking back after this. They are ENTITLED to it after all. Go Meeeeechigan.:gun1::football: :pound::pound::pound:

The Jeff Sagarin Ratings
USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm)

actually has Notre dame ranked 63rd and Michigan 69th. Michigan may move up 10 spots with the victory, but I can see Notre Dame dropping 35 spots. :)

Appalachian State is the highest ranked AA team at 53rd and are trying to hold on to a victory today vs Northern Arizona.

MSU is ranked 15th and USC which is currently ranked 5th because they have played only one game should move up today close to the #1 ranked LSU team if they thump Nebraska tounight.

The Jeff Sagarin Ratings
USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm)

actually has Notre dame ranked 63rd and Michigan 69th. Michigan may move up 10 spots with the victory, but I can see Notre Dame dropping 35 spots. :)

Appalachian State is the highest ranked AA team at 53rd and are trying to hold on to a victory today vs Northern Arizona.

MSU is ranked 15th and USC which is currently ranked 5th because they have played only one game should move up today close to the #1 ranked LSU team if they thump Nebraska tounight.

MSU 15th?????

The only way either Michigan team should be in the top twenty is if they are in the top twenty of the Big Ten conference!! :stirthepot::pound:

Beating Notre Dame at least shows that the woeful UM should be able to beat MSU. MSU faces ND this coming weekend. Hopefully, they'll win and stay undefeated.

Beating Notre Dame at least shows that the woeful UM should be able to beat MSU. MSU faces ND this coming weekend. Hopefully, they'll win and stay undefeated.

I have never seen a worse Notre Dame team. It does not seem possible that Charlie Weiss and Co. could have done this bad a job of recruiting. Spartans should breeze to victory.

Weis has only had two recruiting classes at ND, so I guess about half the players there now were recruited by Willingham. Still, as mediocre as ND was in the last two years under Willingham, they were nowhere near as bad in those seasons as they are now, so no one can blame the previous regime for the pathetic state of that program (not to mention that Weis did pretty well in the last two years with pretty much all Willingham recruits). They are unquestionably one of the worst teams in the country right now...which will probably get Weis another 20 year extension. :stirthepot: One does have to wonder how horrible they'll have to get before NBC drops them from the frickin' national TV contract they have.

I have never seen a worse Notre Dame team. It does not seem possible that Charlie Weiss and Co. could have done this bad a job of recruiting. Spartans should breeze to victory.

It would really seem that way. State has always been a team of good hitters. ND seems to shy away from that. Still, State does like to have their 2nd half collapse each year. I'd like to see them go this year and get 9 or more victories. ND will lose their first 7 games.

Weis has only had two recruiting classes at ND, so I guess about half the players there now were recruited by Willingham. Still, as mediocre as ND was in the last two years under Willingham, they were nowhere near as bad in those seasons as they are now, so no one can blame the previous regime for the pathetic state of that program (not to mention that Weis did pretty well in the last two years with pretty much all Willingham recruits). They are unquestionably one of the worst teams in the country right now...which will probably get Weis another 20 year extension. :stirthepot: One does have to wonder how horrible they'll have to get before NBC drops them from the frickin' national TV contract they have.

I hope Willingham is laughing somewhere. The treatment he got from Notre Dame and the treatment Weis got with the long contract after proving nothing smacks of racism to the worst degree. It actually makes me hate Notre Dame worse than I hate Ohio State, which I didn't think was possible. Willingham was the first black coach for any team in Notre Dame history and he didn't get an adequate chance at all. He was on an incredibly short leash. He ran a clean program. Sure, USC blew them out seasonally, but now Notre Dame is getting blown out by a horrible UM team. I think Weis is smart enough to turn it around but so was Willingham.

I hope Willingham is laughing somewhere. The treatment he got from Notre Dame and the treatment Weis got with the long contract after proving nothing smacks of racism to the worst degree. It actually makes me hate Notre Dame worse than I hate Ohio State, which I didn't think was possible. Willingham was the first black coach for any team in Notre Dame history and he didn't get an adequate chance at all. He was on an incredibly short leash. He ran a clean program. Sure, USC blew them out seasonally, but now Notre Dame is getting blown out by a horrible UM team. I think Weis is smart enough to turn it around but so was Willingham.


Willingham got the next chance he deserved...........Notre Dame got what they deserved also............Looks like win..win to me.....Just waiting for the second half collapse of MSU..........So their fans get what they deserve.

I hope Willingham is laughing somewhere. The treatment he got from Notre Dame and the treatment Weis got with the long contract after proving nothing smacks of racism to the worst degree. It actually makes me hate Notre Dame worse than I hate Ohio State, which I didn't think was possible. Willingham was the first black coach for any team in Notre Dame history and he didn't get an adequate chance at all. He was on an incredibly short leash. He ran a clean program. Sure, USC blew them out seasonally, but now Notre Dame is getting blown out by a horrible UM team. I think Weis is smart enough to turn it around but so was Willingham.

I'm not sure it was racism behind his firing, because why would they have hired him in the first place? I think the main reason they dumped Willingham is because they thought they could get Urban Meyer, who was the hottest coaching name in the country after leading Utah to the BCS. And, looking it up, I see that he'd been an assistant at ND at one time, which I'd forgotten about, so he was in some sense a "Notre Dame guy," unlike Willingham (it's a lame thing to point to, but that's how it is sometimes with programs like that). Fortunately for Meyer, the Florida job came open at the same time, and he chose...wisely.

The main thing that makes ND look like morons is that they gave Weis that decade-long extension in his first season, when the only thing he'd done better than Willingham was lose to USC without getting killed. So they clearly demonstrated a double-standard of some sort (whether it was racism or not) with that decision. Their program is obviously in terrible shape regardless of who they get to coach them; even the exhumed corpse of Knute Rockne probably couldn't get them anywhere near national title contention anymore.

:confused:

It would really seem that way. State has always been a team of good hitters. ND seems to shy away from that. Still, State does like to have their 2nd half collapse each year. I'd like to see them go this year and get 9 or more victories.You sound as if you like the team in general.

Just waiting for the second half collapse of MSU..........So their fans get what they deserve.Then sound as if you don't think MSU fans have endured enough crappy football over the last 20 years.

:confused:

MSU, how feeble will you look if you can't beat UoM this year ?
P.S. What happened to UCLA?

MSU, how feeble will you look if you can't beat UoM this year ?MSU has looked pretty feeble in their 3 wins so far. Realistic State fans have little to be enthused about. After seeing yesterday's UM/ND game, MSU getting beat by UM is a distinct possibility.

However, getting beat by ND in East Lansing next Sat would be the ultimate embarrassment.

I'm not sure it was racism behind his firing, because why would they have hired him in the first place?

Remember that Willingham was hired in the wake of the George O'Leary resume snafu. I think Notre Dame took a chance because they were backed into a corner. We looked stupid with the O'Leary thing but if we hire a black coach, we'll look like heroes in the name of social justice. There are about six black head coaches at 119 Division I football programs. Yet, there are a large percentage of black players on the field. College football is one of the worst areas of diversity in the U.S. as far as leadership positions go. Not many black ADs out there either. There has always been the feeling in this country that blacks possess more physical abilities while whites possess more mental abilities. These untrue stereotypes keep former black athletes in subordinate positions like assistant coach and an assistant AD. And the ol' boys network keeps the machine rolling. Been studying these issues the past four years. It's pretty bad on the women's side, too.

Sure, the Willingham thing wasn't overt racism (we can prove nothing), but Weis sure got a long extension ASAP and Willingham was left twisting in the wind pretty much his whole tenure in South Bend. I'm glad Ty is back out on the West Coast. I hope he produces some great Washington teams and embarrasses Notre Dame teams in future bowl games. :)

Nice rebuttal Zoo.

Remember that Willingham was hired in the wake of the George O'Leary resume snafu. I think Notre Dame took a chance because they were backed into a corner. We looked stupid with the O'Leary thing but if we hire a black coach, we'll look like heroes in the name of social justice. There are about six black head coaches at 119 Division I football programs. Yet, there are a large percentage of black players on the field. College football is one of the worst areas of diversity in the U.S. as far as leadership positions go.

That sounds like the most accurate description of the role that race played in the whole thing. The NFL has made at least some progress on that front in the last decade, but college football is still way behind. Hiring Willingham definitely got them some positive press, including one insane article I remember reading on ESPN that said it was a more significant signing than Jackie Robinson with the Dodgers!

Still, I think the fact that he wasn't really a "Notre Dame guy" was more of a factor in his getting fired than anything race-related (not that there was anything fair about that either). In any event, they're so bad right now that Willingham is obviously doing a lot better where he is. It's not Weis' fault that they gave him a huge extension before he accomplished anything, but the bloom is obviously off the rose now, and he's in an awfully difficult position.

:confused:

You sound as if you like the team in general.

Then sound as if you don't think MSU fans have endured enough crappy football over the last 20 years.

:confused:


I've always liked MSU football. I wish their history (last 20 years) was much better.

MSU fans are mostly upset at the coverage that UM gets in the local papers. MSU fans wish their team was as well received by the national press as UM. MSU is bothered by the way MIchigan is given the benefit of the doubt all the time. (ref calls, rankings, ect.) MSU fans hate the arrogance and smugness of the typical fan at the UM. I am personally disappointed in the behavior of both sets of fans at times.

Your post is correct...........like the team, don't care for the fans very much.

Still, I think the fact that he wasn't really a "Notre Dame guy" was more of a factor in his getting fired than anything race-related (not that there was anything fair about that either).

He definitely wasn't a Notre Dame guy, that's for sure. There has been some murmuring among black female assistant coaches that I have interviewed that they feel like "designated recruiters." They feel they're brought in to recruit top black athletes. If a black athlete sees a black assistant coach on staff, they're more likely to come to a mostly white school. I'm wondering if hiring Willingham had anything to do with Paul Hornug's rant about "recruiting the black athlete." Strictly conjecture on my part.

Your points are well taken, D4E. :)

The best thing about College football to me are all the games that you can find on a Sat night. I watched the 2nd half of Alabama/Arkasas last night. Very entertaining game.

This Michigan/MSU thing has been going on since I don't know how long. Back in the late 1800's or so.

I've always liked MSU football. I wish their history (last 20 years) was much better.

MSU fans are mostly upset at the coverage that UM gets in the local papers. MSU fans wish their team was as well received by the national press as UM. MSU is bothered by the way MIchigan is given the benefit of the doubt all the time. (ref calls, rankings, ect.) MSU fans hate the arrogance and smugness of the typical fan at the UM. I am personally disappointed in the behavior of both sets of fans at times.

Your post is correct...........like the team, don't care for the fans very much.So what is it? You'd like to see the team do well, but would rather it didn't...just to spite it's fans...? I'm still confused.

BTW...imo, you are right on all counts as to the sources of irritation for MSU fans.

So what is it? You'd like to see the team do well, but would rather it didn't...just to spite it's fans...? I'm still confused.

I'd like to see the team do well, but take joy when it doesn't just to spite it's fans............

Now from this statement, one can conclude that I'd RATHER see MSU win. That is my first choice. That is what I want to see. That is what I wish would happen. That is what I'm hoping for. BUUUUUUUT, When they lose (my second choice, another option, what usually happens!!!) then I take joy in the fact that it disrupts their fans so much...........:nerd2:

It has to be tough being a Spartan Football fan. Year after year with no real shot of a championship. Whole identity seems to be based on what some other team in the State does.

Michigan is off to a Spartan like season in that all hopes of a National title are already out the window. Its not very fun. If anything perhaps some can learn the pain of what a Spartan fan goes through in a typical season. That Michigan/State game is actually looking like something of significance now. Thats how bad it is.

And the condescending continues...

And UM fans wonder why MSU fans can't stand AA(s).

At least, for the most part, MSU fans don't bag that much on UM basketball fans.

Wow, when it can't possibly get more pathetic, in comes Penn State and the Nittany Lions absolutely stink it up against an extremely mediocre Michigan team. Wonder how they feel about losing in AA again?

I wonder if a QB controversy is brewing. Keep Mallet in there when Henne is healthy?

Lou Holtz guaranteed yesterday that both Wolverines and Spartans would lose today, so don't ever bet with him when you are in Vegas:)

Lou Holtz guaranteed yesterday that both Wolverines and Spartans would lose today, so don't ever bet with him when you are in Vegas:)


I made the same prediction on the Detroit News site........I'll be able to return there in a few........weeks.:pound:

Lou Holtz guaranteed yesterday that both Wolverines and Spartans would lose today, so don't ever bet with him when you are in Vegas:)

Lou Holtz. One of my least favorite human beings on this planet.

Wow, when it can't possibly get more pathetic, in comes Penn State and the Nittany Lions absolutely stink it up against an extremely mediocre Michigan team. Wonder how they feel about losing in AA again?

I wonder if a QB controversy is brewing. Keep Mallet in there when Henne is healthy?

This is actually a very interesting situation. On one hand you have Henne, who's the #1 quarterback and has much better chance of success. Also, with Mallet playing they are going to wear out Hart very quickly with 40+ carries in every game. On the other hand you also have to think about the next season and giving Mallet playing time only gives you better chances at a better team next year. This is the dilemma.

This is actually a very interesting situation. On one hand you have Henne, who's the #1 quarterback and has much better chance of success. Also, with Mallet playing they are going to wear out Hart very quickly with 40+ carries in every game. On the other hand you also have to think about the next season and giving Mallet playing time only gives you better chances at a better team next year. This is the dilemma.


Lloyd's dilemma, Mallet 2-0 and Henne 0-2.

Defense looks better than it did in the first two games but still PSU was proabably over-rated. Can it stop any of the more potent teams? Well maybe if they don't run the spread offense.

The Wolverine offense is still questionable as Hart can't do it all. Play calling needs to be addressed on when to use Hart and when to throw to the WR's who seem to be always open.

The Wolverine offense is still questionable as Hart can't do it all. Play calling needs to be addressed on when to use Hart and when to throw to the WR's who seem to be always open.

Lloyd is an idiot. He's using up Hart and the kid's gonna have nothing left at the end of the season.

Lloyd is an idiot if he didn't know Mallet was the "teams" QB. Then again he may owe Henne promises.

Lloyd is an idiot if he didn't know Mallet was the "teams" QB. Then again he may owe Henne promises.
He may be an idiot, but he's still a long-tenured coach and makes pretty good $$$. How many idiots can say the same?

He may be an idiot, but he's still a long-tenured coach and makes pretty good $$$. How many idiots can say the same?

I can think of a few... :MusicBigGrin:

Richard Wagoner Jr
Wiliam Clay Ford
Flip Saunders (that one was too easy) :stirthepot:

I can think of a few... :MusicBigGrin:

Richard Wagoner Jr
Wiliam Clay Ford
Flip Saunders (that one was too easy) :stirthepot:

If you say so...