9. Ben Wallace, Bulls. I'm a little torn because I know the Bulls brought in Wallace to solidify themselves in the middle and help them take the next step. Wallace's defense on Shaquille O'Neal in the first round of the playoffs in some ways justified the big contract. I knew some of Wallace's contributions would be intangible, but his production was very subpar (6.7 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.2 blocks) and Wallace rarely looked like the guy the Bulls thought they were getting. At $15.5 million -- that's about 28 percent of the Bulls' salary-cap space -- it's impossible to keep Wallace off this list.

If we had signed Big Ben last year, I doubt we would have been able to sign C-Bill this year. Of course there are those who say we would be better off next year with Big Ben rather than C-Bill. I don't agree.

SportingNews.com - NBA - The NBA's all-overpaid team (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=265722)

:hoops:

How about Rashard Lewis? The reason Ben got such a big day is not because of his defense on the court, but also because of his work ethic off the court. He is getting overpaid, but by no means is he one of the most overpaid players in the NBA. Stats are a small percentage of how to rate a player. If a GM only looks at stats he would fail.

If we had signed Big Ben last year, I doubt we would have been able to sign C-Bill this year. Of course there are those who say we would be better off next year with Big Ben rather than C-Bill. I don't agree.


A) That's not exactly true because Davidson had the Bird rights to both players. It would have put us over the cap a bit, but I think Davidson would have coughed up the coin to keep Billups this year.

B) I'd rather have a player with a great work ethic and a tough on court disposition. Than a player who spends half the year grinning at the camera, after being humiliated, and telling me, "Nah man, we ain't worried..."


C) Ben would have put Lebron on his arse, Chauncey did not.

A) That's not exactly true because Davidson had the Bird rights to both players. It would have put us over the cap a bit, but I think Davidson would have coughed up the coin to keep Billups this year.

B) I'd rather have a player with a great work ethic and a tough on court disposition. Than a player who spends half the year grinning at the camera, after being humiliated, and telling me, "Nah man, we ain't worried..."


C) Ben would have put Lebron on his arse, Chauncey did not.

These are all good points, but you have to admit, Ben got paid for what he did in the past. He will never put up the production to match the $60 million he will cash in with the Bulls.

We paid darko what he might do in the future...for another team.

These are all good points, but you have to admit, Ben got paid for what he did in the past. He will never put up the production to match the $60 million he will cash in with the Bulls.

Sure, if you only measure production in points scored.

Sure, if you only measure production in points scored.
Is he the player that will put them over the top? They can't even beat Pistons at this point.

Is he the player that will put them over the top? They can't even beat Pistons at this point.

How many times do we have to have this discussion?

Is he Michael Jordan? NO. He never was and no one here ever claimed he was.

The fact is, this team is better with him than without him. Case closed. You are never going to convince me otherwise by suggesting that he's not Kobe Bryant.

Just saying you're a better team because you didn't pay for Ben Wallace is retarded. Getting humiliated by the Cavaliers ought to be enough to drive that fact home...or maybe being a worse team is preferable to some of you because you have possibilities and potential to get all excited about. That's fine, but don't tell me this team couldn't do better WITH Wallace than they can without because they've clearly shown that they need what he brings to the table.

Now with some luck and miraculous turn of events by the current "coach," you might get some decent production out of these young guys, but that's hardly enough to convince me that removing the strongest part of your strongest asset (defense) is going to make you "better."

Sure, if you only measure production in points scored.

These are all good points, but you have to admit, Ben got paid for what he did in the past. He will never put up the production to match the $60 million he will cash in with the Bulls.

Stats are a small percentage of how to rate a player. If a GM only looks at stats he would fail.

His work ethic and character are not gone though (those things are not in the past).

Ben shoulda signed for 48 million for 4 with the Pistons. He woulda had a more appreciated season here. He coulda made us a better playoff team last season......................Oh no...........just a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda...............:)

Ben was our Koncak gut check.

Trader Jack offered Koncak twice what Dumars was making, coming off a Finals MVP performance. Atlanta got nervous, matched the deal, and fell off the map. No one knows if Jack was being legit, or playing mind games.

Obviously Ben was more talented and useful than Koncak, but Chicago tossed out a big offer, that if we would have matched would have blown up the team salary structure. Joe did the unpopular thing and didn't match, but it was the right move for keeping the whole thing near the upper echelon of the NBA. If Chicago had not signed Ben, they could have been going into this offseason with $20 million in cap space. Enough to sign anyone they wanted and for those of you arguing that Ben doesn't put them over the top, they probably could have signed 1 or 2 guys that could.

This is a pretty weird list. Seems a little bit more like "guys-I-want-to-make-fun-of" rather than an attempt to really measure performance and salary.

KMart - Yeah sure, didn't earn his $12 mil, but got hurt and only played in two games. Nobody who plays two games earns their salary. If you're going to shoot at hurt guys, why not Peja who played 13 and earned $11M.

Starbury - Yep, near the top of anybody's list. My numbers say he earned 7 of his $M.

Kirilenko - Definitely overpaid for what he did - sprocket points say he earned $6.5 of his $12.4. But Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett had equally large gaps between performance justified salary and actual. There is a long list of "stars" with equal gaps.

Theo Ratliff - Yep, but got hurt and played two games just like KMart.

Toine - Earned $4M, made $7.6M, but 49th on my list - loads of other guys with bigger gaps. Of course, taking shots at Walker is a national pastime. And a fun one. Should be too easy for a Sporting News article though.

LaFrentz - Another guy who got hurt - played in 27 games (though admittedly not at a level matching his salary even for those)

Rose - 24th on my list, not top ten. Besides, anyone playing for the Knicks should get a pass. They'll pay anyone anything.

Szczerbiak - Wallyworld got traded, got hurt, but even prorating his performance to 82 games only nets him half of what he got paid. But, expiring contracts are always for more than you get. That's just the way the system works.

BBen - From one of the most underpaid last year to #29 on my list of overpaid players this year - no where near top ten. sprocket points say he earned $12 of his $16M - same performance justified salary as Baron Davis (who earned $15M), McGrady, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce - why pick on Ben when there are so many others in the same boat?

Kwame Brown - #35 on my list and another injured player. If you project his 41 games played performance to 82, his salary gap narrows to earning a little over $7M, and getting paid a little for $8M. Sounds like a pretty good contract to me.


And what about...

Shaq - sure he was hurt, but projecting his performance over 40 games to the full season still makes him the most overpaid player in the league by a lot.

Even prorating to a full season, these guys missed the mark by over $5M -

Grant Hill
Steve Francis
Larry Hughes
Allen Iverson
Jermaine O'Neal
Tracy McGrady
Adonal Foyle

Still, if you're a journalist always begging for interviews, why offend a big name when you can always take shots at Kwame and Wally?


P.S. The spellchecker wants to replace Szczerbiak with Scumbag. Talk about no respect...

Ben was our Koncak gut check.

Trader Jack offered Koncak twice what Dumars was making, coming off a Finals MVP performance. Atlanta got nervous, matched the deal, and fell off the map. No one knows if Jack was being legit, or playing mind games.

Obviously Ben was more talented and useful than Koncak, but Chicago tossed out a big offer, that if we would have matched would have blown up the team salary structure. Joe did the unpopular thing and didn't match, but it was the right move for keeping the whole thing near the upper echelon of the NBA. If Chicago had not signed Ben, they could have been going into this offseason with $20 million in cap space. Enough to sign anyone they wanted and for those of you arguing that Ben doesn't put them over the top, they probably could have signed 1 or 2 guys that could.

Well, IMO we could have kept Ben for less than the max if Davidson had been willing to negotiate and compromise a little. Davidson wanted 12...no more. There's still 4 Mil annually of compromise in there somewhere and DET showed no interest in compromise. They strictly wanted "take what we offer or get out."

I don't think that's any way to come to the table with the heart of your team.

A) That's not exactly true because Davidson had the Bird rights to both players. It would have put us over the cap a bit, but I think Davidson would have coughed up the coin to keep Billups this year.

B) I'd rather have a player with a great work ethic and a tough on court disposition. Than a player who spends half the year grinning at the camera, after being humiliated, and telling me, "Nah man, we ain't worried..."


C) Ben would have put Lebron on his arse, Chauncey did not.

Our roster would have been frozen almost as bad as the Knicks with aging players and no room to move in the future.

Hard work ethic is great, but Ben is undersized and can't shoot. Which means his entire game is based on quickness, jumping and reaction. All those qualities are the first to go in a basketball player as they get older.

Ben is past his prime and the money would have been a waste and a bad decision.

Joe D. did the right thing in not re-signing him.

:hoops:

Well, IMO we could have kept Ben for less than the max if Davidson had been willing to negotiate and compromise a little. Davidson wanted 12...no more. There's still 4 Mil annually of compromise in there somewhere and DET showed no interest in compromise. They strictly wanted "take what we offer or get out."

I don't think that's any way to come to the table with the heart of your team.


I disagree. I don't think Ben would have returned to the Pistons even if we matched Chicago's enormous offer. By the Miami series, I think it was becoming quite clear that there was no place on the Pistons roster for a defensive specialist.

To paraphrase the coach, "you can't beat Shaq with a guy who can't score."

To paraphrase the coach, "you can't beat Shaq with a guy who can't score."

Except last year in the playoffs. :stirthepot:

YouTube - Ben Wallace Block on Shaq (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWo-VA1mf6Y)

I think that was about 4 minutes before Flip benched Ben for good.


YouTube - Shaq gets stuffed by Ben Wallace, THE block PART 2 by Ben (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DtTbyhKoM&mode=related&search=)

Ben not scoring against Shaq.

Our roster would have been frozen almost as bad as the Knicks with aging players and no room to move in the future.

Hard work ethic is great, but Ben is undersized and can't shoot. Which means his entire game is based on quickness, jumping and reaction. All those qualities are the first to go in a basketball player as they get older.

Ben is past his prime and the money would have been a waste and a bad decision.

Joe D. did the right thing in not re-signing him.



Sorry, no dice. There are no signs of Ben losing his physical ability. That's just plain heresay and there is nothing to prove that fact other than he went to a slightly worse team. Even then, that's no indictment of his loss of ability, simply an inability to reach the same level of "team success."

Saying Ben Wallace was fading is purely cliche and the "in" thing to say since he chose to go to CHI. Ben is without question one of the most physically fit and able players the league has ever seen. If you leave it to some people on this forum, Ben Wallace is more slow, fat, and out of shape than Shaq or Oliver Miller. If saying Ben Wallace is fading and fading fast makes you feel better, so be it, but please do confuse that with fact or reality.

Joe D absolutely made the wrong move for this team over the next 4 (3 remaining) years. This team had a much better chance of competing for a title and all Joe would have had to do was force Flip to include Ben in the game plan, much like he's forcing his hand by giving him nothing but young guys this year. However, Joe D chose the run and gun package and crapped out and won't get any closer to a title until Saunders is gone.

Finally, to even suggest that our roster would be anywhere close to the Knicks roster simply by retaining Ben Wallace is blasphemy and not worth a legitimate response.

I disagree. I don't think Ben would have returned to the Pistons even if we matched Chicago's enormous offer. By the Miami series, I think it was becoming quite clear that there was no place on the Pistons roster for a defensive specialist.

To paraphrase the coach, "you can't beat Shaq with a guy who can't score."

Well, I should have qualified my statement by saying that I fell that would have had to come with some assurance that Saunders would be expected to compromise his great offensive playbook.

Joe D absolutely made the wrong move for this team over the next 4 (3 remaining) years. This team had a much better chance of competing for a title ...

Maybe winning a title isn't the top priority for Dumars. He wants to be cost conscious and still competitive and keep a coach around who is a nice fellow. That's what it's all about.

Maybe winning a title isn't the top priority for Dumars. He wants to be cost conscious and still competitive and keep a coach around who is a nice fellow. That's what it's all about.

That's why rams butt heads, my friend...that's why rams butt heads.

Low, what $ amount would be considered overpaying for Ben in your opinion?

Maybe winning a title isn't the top priority for Dumars. He wants to be cost conscious and still competitive and keep a coach around who is a nice fellow. That's what it's all about.

I disagree with you on this one. Joe D's focus is always on winning championships.

I disagree with you on this one. Joe D's focus is always on winning championships.
That is correct. And he doesn't want to do what Celtics just did to be competitive for a couple of years and then fall into the oblivion tied by the huge contracts and aging players way past their prime.

Well, IMO we could have kept Ben for less than the max if Davidson had been willing to negotiate and compromise a little. Davidson wanted 12...no more. There's still 4 Mil annually of compromise in there somewhere and DET showed no interest in compromise. They strictly wanted "take what we offer or get out."

I don't think that's any way to come to the table with the heart of your team.
Yeah, but the thing is I don't think Detroit could have gone higher without compromising themselves. I think they came with what they could do (and arguably, more than they may have wanted to pay anyway), and didn't have room to negotiate.

It's important to note, that at the end of the day, Ben could have decided to stay. He's the one who made the decision. He was the free agent.

You know I side with you on a lot of this, but in my mind, there is no way in hell Ben Wallace is worth $16 million a year. And it's not just Ben. I don't think most of these guys deserve deals worth over $13 mill a year. The market has bottomed out for FAs.

That is correct. And he doesn't want to do what Celtics just did to be competitive for a couple of years and then fall into the oblivion tied by the huge contracts and aging players way past their prime.
The thing about the Celts is, those contracts will be valuable salary dumps in trade at one point. If the Celts draft and develop, they could keep this train a rollin' for a while yet.

Imagine negotiating with your employer about how valuable your salary dump will be for the company in 5 years if they grossly over pay you. The salary cap does weird things to the economics I guess.

Ben shoulda signed for 48 million for 4 with the Pistons. He woulda had a more appreciated season here. He coulda made us a better playoff team last season......................Oh no...........just a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda...............:)

If he would have taken the deal it would have been about the same that Davison is paying for Mohamed and Dyess. Right now we have a 6mil/yr hit to the cap that pretty much sat for the 2nd half and post-season.

Seems comical now how we were supposed to be better with Nazir and then later better with Webber. Maybe this year we will be better with Johnson so there is some hope and that should not be dismissed that easily.

Low, what $ amount would be considered overpaying for Ben in your opinion?

I'm not saying it's a bottomless well. I'm just saying they should have been willing to bump up to 13 or 13.5...

I think that would have gone a long way toward convincing him to stay. Besides, if you're already committed to 12, then you should be game enough to bite the proverbial bullet and give a little. 1 or 1.5 Mil more wouldn't have killed Davidson OR turned the Pistons into the Knicks overnight.

I just find it amazing that if Ben had taken the 12 Mil, nobody here would be complaining that he's overpaid, but a penny more, and it's public revolt around this place.

...You know I side with you on a lot of this, but in my mind, there is no way in hell Ben Wallace is worth $16 million a year. And it's not just Ben. I don't think most of these guys deserve deals worth over $13 mill a year. The market has bottomed out for FAs....

I misspoke, or mistyped as the case may be. I should have said 3 Mil of space to work with. I never intended to say Ben was worth 16 Mil. However, if Det is offering 12 and CHI offers 15...meet him in the middle @ 13/13.5 and tell Saunders to get his crap together. That's all I'm saying.

I haven't seen any comments on this thread about the conflict between Flip and Big Ben.

Not taking sides one way or the other, but I have to think that this had something to do with Joe's offer and the possibility that Joe purposely underbid his offer to Big Ben because .....

Just a thought

:hoops:

I'm not saying it's a bottomless well. I'm just saying they should have been willing to bump up to 13 or 13.5...


So we underbid and Chicago overpaid.

Ben is capable of having a better year this year though. If he plays well and avoids injury, overpaying by $2M is not a big deal. We are easily overpaying Nazr by the same amount.

So we underbid and Chicago overpaid.

Ben is capable of having a better year this year though. If he plays well and avoids injury, overpaying by $2M is not a big deal. We are easily overpaying Nazr by the same amount.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Personally, I'd much rather be overpaying for Ben Wallace than Nazr Mohammed.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Personally, I'd much rather be overpaying for Ben Wallace than Nazr Mohammed.
Problem in overpaying Ben (and I am not saying it shouldn't be done) puts a much greater strain on the overall salary structure of the team. And that is where the difference lies between overpaying Ben and overpaying Nazr.

Problem in overpaying Ben (and I am not saying it shouldn't be done) puts a much greater strain on the overall salary structure of the team. And that is where the difference lies between overpaying Ben and overpaying Nazr.

But honestly, that extra Mil on the cap does nothing to "strain" this team, considering the absolute nothing that was done this off season even AFTER saving all this precious cash.

We are so far from the true financial strain that the Knicks had.

But honestly, that extra Mil on the cap does nothing to "strain" this team, considering the absolute nothing that was done this off season even AFTER saving all this precious cash.
Well if you look at the difference between 13-14 mil and 15-16 mil then I would agree. However, when we're talking about 15 mil vs 6 mil - makes a heck of a difference.

We are so far from the true financial strain that the Knicks had.
You've got an old, traditional jewish guy as an owner. How else could it work?
:stirthepot:

You've got an old, traditional jewish guy as an owner. How else could it work?
:stirthepot:

Race :smiley-poker:

Well if you look at the difference between 13-14 mil and 15-16 mil then I would agree. However, when we're talking about 15 mil vs 6 mil - makes a heck of a difference.

Not when the names involved are Ben Wallace or Nazr Mohammed.

I still think that it would be hard to get Ben back because the contract would be huge. I did not like how quickly the Pistons got Nazr though. I think that Joe should have waited longer to see if he could possibly get someone better.

Race :smiley-poker:

Judaism is not a race. It is a religion.

Most Jews today today are either of German or Spanish descent but are considered Semites much the same as the Muslims in the Middle East and Northern Africa with the general exception of the Muslims that are of Turkish or Iranian descent. Semitic people are identified by the language of their ancestors, with the primary Semitic language being Arabic.

Hence the term Anti-Semite, which technically should be applied to Jews and Muslims and anyone else that is descendant of people whose primary language was one of the Semitic languages.



The Semitic languages are a family of languages spoken by more than 300 million people across much of the Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East), North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa), and the Horn of Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_of_Africa). They constitute the northeastern subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Asiatic_languages), and the only branch of this group spoken in Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia).
The most widely spoken Semitic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language) today is Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-0) (206 million first language speakers),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-1) followed by Amharic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amharic_language) (27 million first language speakers),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-3) Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language) (5 million first language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language) speakers[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-HebrewNumberOfSpeakers)) and Tigrinya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigrinya_language) (about 4.5 million total speakers[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#_note-4)) . Semitic languages were among the earliest to attain a written form, with Akkadian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language) writing beginning in the middle of the third millennium BC. Maltese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_language) is the only Semitic Language written in Roman script (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_script). The term "Semitic" for these languages, after Shem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem), the son of Noah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah) in the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible), is etymologically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymologically) a misnomer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misnomer) in some ways (see Semitic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic)), but is nonetheless standard.

Semitic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages)

Linguistic Convergence and Areal ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.com/books?id=qdA1K3E66UgC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=iranians+semitic&source=web&ots=vth0n7QO-O&sig=q14QuQqfgt_0MMomvUOvDn-I98Q#PPP1,M1)


:hoops:

Judaism is not a race. It is a religion.

Most Jews today today are either of German or Spanish descent but are considered Semites much the same as the Muslims in the Middle East and Northern Africa with the general exception of the Muslims that are of Turkish or Iranian descent. Semitic people are identified by the language of their ancestors, with the primary Semitic language being Arabic.

Hence the term Anti-Semite, which technically should be applied to Jews and Muslims and anyone else that is descendant of people whose primary language was one of the Semitic languages.


Semitic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages)

Linguistic Convergence and Areal ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.com/books?id=qdA1K3E66UgC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=iranians+semitic&source=web&ots=vth0n7QO-O&sig=q14QuQqfgt_0MMomvUOvDn-I98Q#PPP1,M1)


:hoops:

Thanks, however Jewish as found in the dictionary is synonymous with the culture as well as the religion. Just as African-American culture is synonymous with the African-American race. Thus, making my facetious comment regarding the race card valid as I was careful not to reference Judaism it's self, but the Jewish culture/race.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Personally, I'd much rather be overpaying for Ben Wallace than Nazr Mohammed.

Ben didn't want to be a Piston anymore. Time to move on....

Ben didn't want to be a Piston anymore. Time to move on....

Then why did he hang out in the Pistons lockerroom and go to dinner with the Pistons when Detroit played Chicago in the playoffs? He realized that he still wanted to be one of the guys.

Then why did he hang out in the Pistons lockerroom and go to dinner with the Pistons when Detroit played Chicago in the playoffs? He realized that he still wanted to be one of the guys.

Perhaps Ben was having regrets...

Ben didn't want to be a Piston anymore. Time to move on....
Hold on a second here! I thought this was all hypothetical.

Are you guys telling me that Ben really left the Pistons? Wow.

Well, at least we still have Uncle Cliffy and Chucky Atkins.

Perhaps Ben was having regrets...
And Chicago, buyer's remorse! :D

Ben didn't want to be a Piston anymore. Time to move on....

I agree.

Hold on a second here! I thought this was all hypothetical.

Are you guys telling me that Ben really left the Pistons? Wow.

Well, at least we still have Uncle Cliffy and Chucky Atkins.


And Chicago, buyer's remorse! :D


We still have Cliffy and Chucky. See the Rotations thread.

Ben didn't want to be a Piston anymore. Time to move on....

Well whatever anyone thinks about whether Ben Wallace is overpaid now, one thing is certain. He wasn't overpaid by the Pistons. Not by a long shot. Not one little minute of playing time was he overpaid. So I guess that makes Joe real smart, and means that I watch alot of Bulls game in addition to my Pistons games.

Big Ben will always be the face of the Pistons team I love the most. So there. :gun1:

Well whatever anyone thinks about whether Ben Wallace is overpaid now, one thing is certain. He wasn't overpaid by the Pistons. Not by a long shot. Not one little minute of playing time was he overpaid. So I guess that makes Joe real smart, and means that I watch alot of Bulls game in addition to my Pistons games.

Big Ben will always be the face of the Pistons team I love the most. So there. :gun1:

I agree 100% Kim. Wanna go see Durant and Green this season? We can watch the Pistons take the kids to school.

Ben is just getting old.............numbers will go down. Only question, Will he earn his money in Chicago?? Probably not.........

Basically, the Bulls sigend him to give them 2 darn good seasons. They didn't want to wait for the 'ship any longer so they decided to spent tons of bucks on Ben's contract so that he'd get them over the top right away and once he started to decline, Tyrus Thomas, Noah and the other young fellas should fill his void. Last season, Ben showed he isn't his old self any longer and he was also not able to carry the team on his back defensively as he once used to. Also, an offense that features a frontcourt of dinosaur PJ Brown along with Ben simply can't work too well.
I ecpect Ben to play decent one more year and after that one, he'll be only a shadow of his old self (that all of us loved so much) and we'll be more happy JoeD didn't sign him long term for big money than we alread are

Big Ben will always be the face of the Pistons team I love the most. So there. :gun1:

Looks like Laimbeer's face is the one you love the most.

Big Ben will always be the face of the Pistons team I love the most. So there. :gun1:
I used a play on Ben's name as my preferred password for years. This guy helped resurrect the franchise. I agree 100%. It's just fun needling The Low a little. :MusicBigGrin:

Looks like Laimbeer's face is the one you love the most.

No no no. You misunderstand. Laimbeer is my avatar not because he is my favorite Piston, but because he is Totally Hot. Have you seen that video "This is the Moment"? Totally Hot. It's a girl thing.

Hell, he's still hot.

Point taken however. Let me be perfectly clear.

Basically, the Bulls sigend him to give them 2 darn good seasons. They didn't want to wait for the 'ship any longer so they decided to spent tons of bucks on Ben's contract so that he'd get them over the top right away and once he started to decline, Tyrus Thomas, Noah and the other young fellas should fill his void. Last season, Ben showed he isn't his old self any longer and he was also not able to carry the team on his back defensively as he once used to. Also, an offense that features a frontcourt of dinosaur PJ Brown along with Ben simply can't work too well.
I ecpect Ben to play decent one more year and after that one, he'll be only a shadow of his old self (that all of us loved so much) and we'll be more happy JoeD didn't sign him long term for big money than we alread are

Since when is four years long term? It's one year over a rookie contract.

..It's just fun needling The Low a little. :MusicBigGrin:

You have no idea how much I appreciate it....:nerd2:

Pistons have not been able to win since Ben left. Could not win in his last year here either so who knows.

The Finals run was too dang short. Two years, 1 title. Too short.

No no no. You misunderstand. Laimbeer is my avatar not because he is my favorite Piston, but because he is Totally Hot. Have you seen that video "This is the Moment"? Totally Hot. It's a girl thing.

Hell, he's still hot.

Point taken however. Let me be perfectly clear.
I'm smiling ear to ear. You're great Kim! :D

Pistons have not been able to win since Ben left. Could not win in his last year here either so who knows.

The Finals run was too dang short. Two years, 1 title. Too short.

The Pistons did not have a superstar just a bunch of very good guys. We did have arguably the best coach in the league, so the Pistons had a superstar coach. Flip was just not as much of a nuisance as LB. The whole situation confuses me especially the fact that I thought Flip would help improve this team.

No no no. You misunderstand. Laimbeer is my avatar not because he is my favorite Piston, but because he is Totally Hot. Have you seen that video "This is the Moment"? Totally Hot. It's a girl thing.

Hell, he's still hot.

Point taken however. Let me be perfectly clear.

Maybe that is why he can coach the Shock. Somehow I don't think that would translate to the Pistons, but who knows. LOL

:hoops:

Pistons have not been able to win since Ben left. Could not win in his last year here either so who knows.

The Finals run was too dang short. Two years, 1 title. Too short.

Big Ben has only been gone 1 year and they haven't won since Darko got the boot. Seems a more app. reason to me. LOL

:hoops:

Have the Pistons won a championship since they let Darvin Ham go? Maybe he is the key.

Have the Pistons won a championship since they let Darvin Ham go? Maybe he is the key.

What about Tremain Fowlkes? He was putting up Will Blalock-type numbers in 2004. You can't expect to continue a championship run without replacing that production...

Have the Pistons won a championship since they let Darvin Ham go? Maybe he is the key.

You may be on to something there!!!

:hoops:

What about Tremain Fowlkes? He was putting up Will Blalock-type numbers in 2004. You can't expect to continue a championship run without replacing that production...

I didn't know that TF was in such exclusive company.



Fowlkes was one of three players (the others being Britton Johnsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britton_Johnsen) and Marcus Haislip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Haislip)) signed to pro-rated one-year contracts in the immediate aftermath of the incident at The Palace of Auburn Hills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacers-Pistons_brawl) on November 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_19), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004), which devastated the Pacers' already banged-up lineup with the suspensions of their three best players, Ron Artest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Artest), Jermaine O'Neal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_O%27Neal) and Stephen Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jackson).

Tremaine Fowlkes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremaine_Fowlkes)

:hoops:

Do to the volitility of BBeen fans here at this site I will refrain from entering this debate.

I know how Ben can get ticked off sometimes though. In simple pick up games (2 on 2 or 3 on 3) every few games the ball won't come to me a lot. Sometimes you will get angry. As for Ben it happened to him ALL the time. It sounds like he's a baby, but he's just human. Ben got the first play call from LB and it worked great. All it took was 1 play call. ONE. It was not like that one play call was a bad one either. Maybe that's what a coach should do with Ben even if Ben would want it or not. It's that one play call that could get that player a little more satisfied, which would make him more effective on the court overall because he isn't moping around.