Jury selection to begin Monday.

ESPN - Sexual harassment suit against Isiah heads to trial - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3007484)

:gun1::gun1:

Looks like another NBA divorce if this doesn't go well for Isiah:stirthepot:

Maybe we'll hear about some gratuitous gropping.

Expected. Hopefully it does not turn out ugly.

I would be amazed if Zeke is found guilty in this fiasco, but it makes readable copy for the N.Y. press.

:hoops:

According the the NY Times, Browne Sanders previously filed a sexual harassment suit against IBM, where she worked as a marketing executive.

With most of these things, it becomes obvious who is right and who is full of crap pretty quickly.

Could go either way. There are obviously a lot of people out there who would make things up... and a lot of people who cross the line at work without batting an eye.

Hopefully Isiah didn't do anything wrong.

According the the NY Times, Browne Sanders previously filed a sexual harassment suit against IBM, where she worked as a marketing executive.

So, either she is a liar, or she gets harrassed a lot. Usually, when things like that come out, it means that the person is manipulating the system.

For instance, the Duke Lacross lady had claimed that she was raped before I believe.

If you look at girl too long she'll say you are undressing her with your eyes.
Is she hot lookin' ?

I read where he also kissed her on the side of her face one time, but didn't say the things to her that she claims.

I don't think that kissing an employee of either gender on the side of the face is appropriate unless it is a cultural thing as in countries like France, Italy and the Middle East. etc. Even in those countries I am not sure that it is an accepted cultural thing to kiss your employee on the side of the face, but I am not sure.

:hoops:

Magic Johnson and the entire NBA viewing public could be a witness to the fact Zeke is too kissy.
Maybe he'll stop now.

Magic Johnson and the entire NBA viewing public could be a witness to the fact Zeke is too kissy.
Maybe he'll stop now.

I wonder if Bad Boy Bill kisses his employees or draws the line at holding hands. LOL

:hoops:

Hopefully his marriage is strong. I know I couldn't handle it.

Kathleen Decker



She said she was not intoxicated when she left the club in Mount Vernon, N.Y., intending to get a ride home with Marbury's cousin.

Instead, she encountered Marbury sitting in his truck calling out to her.

"Stephon Marbury asked me: 'Are you going to get in the truck?' and I got in the truck," she told the jury. Asked if the sex was consensual, she answered, "Completely ... I was in control."

One lawyer asked her if Marbury raped her. "Never," she responded.

The testimony came after fired MSG vice president Anucha Browne Sanders testified as part of her sexual harassment case that Decker told her she felt no choice but to submit to Marbury's advances.

Browne Sanders had made it part of her $10 million claim in U.S. District Court that Madison Square Garden and the Knicks did not adequately respond to complaints of sexual harassment and abusive language by her boss, Knicks coach Isiah Thomas.

Decker was called as a witness by MSG to support its arguments that Browne Sanders was planning all along to sue Madison Square Garden and spent time before she was fired trying to build her case.


MSG employee says sex with Knicks star was consensual - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlvKUamMI_zsnDpbNbjfvxm8vLYF?slug=ap-knicks-thomasharassmentsuit&prov=ap&type=lgns)

:hoops:

i don't know if she has much of a case but the collateral damage looks to be huge.

His testimony came soon after MSG Chairman James Dolan told jurors he fired Browne Sanders upon learning she tried to get her subordinates to help build her case against Thomas.

Knicks coach says trouble with ex-exec started almost immediately - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiEmo.apxXWfKi6leUIjLmm8vLYF?slug=ap-knicks-thomasharassmentsuit&prov=ap&type=lgns)

:hoops:

I've been following this case a little bit and I'm under the impression that neither side is really being truthful. I'd love to know what REALLY happened.

I've been following this case a little bit and I'm under the impression that neither side is really being truthful. I'd love to know what REALLY happened.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/Acdc-Video-FOTW.jpg/150px-Acdc-Video-FOTW.jpg



Fly on the Wall is a video by AC/DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC), released in 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985). It is named after their album with the same name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_on_the_Wall_%28album%29). The tape comprised of a single music video of five of the songs from Fly on the Wall, back to back. The visuals involved AC/DC playing at a bar while various shady characters interacted with an animated fly, much like the one on the cover of the album. The track listing is as follows:
"Fly on the Wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_on_the_Wall_%28song%29)"
"Danger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_%28song%29)"
"Sink the Pink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sink_the_Pink)"
"Stand Up (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stand_Up_%28AC/DC_song%29&action=edit)"
"Shake Your Foundations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_Your_Foundations)"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_on_the_Wall_(AC/DC_Video) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_on_the_Wall_%28AC/DC_Video%29)

:hoops:

Oh, Isiah! Getting tougher and tougher to stand behind this guy.

ESPN - Jury: Thomas, MSG liable for sexual harassment - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3046010)

Oh, Isiah! Getting tougher and tougher to stand behind this guy.

ESPN - Jury: Thomas, MSG liable for sexual harassment - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3046010)


Just saw Zeke short news conference response to the partial verdict..he was mad and promises to appeal. The attempted kiss may have sealed his fate, but looks like he doesn't have to come up with any cash....

I wonder if the distractions of the appeal process will possibly doom the first half of the Knicks season.

Just saw Zeke short news conference response to the partial verdict..he was mad and promises to appeal.

I wonder if the distractions will possibly doom the first half of the Knicks season.
That will be interesting to watch, that's for sure.

Here's another look:


On Dec. 22, 2003, as the announcement was being made, I wrote the following on SLAMonline.com:
Why Isiah Thomas? Well, he wasn’t terrible in Toronto. He did draft Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire and Tracy McGrady, after all. He screwed up because he wanted power, like he was staring at The Ring for too long. So he tried to put together a group to buy the Raptors and eventually got run out of town. Then he went to the CBA, where he was going to revitalize that league and make it an NBA farm system. Instead they went bankrupt. Soon after he wrote a book on how to succeed in business. And then he coached the Pacers, getting himself fired there because he wouldn’t establish a rotation and never seemed to really get a grip on things. Rick Carlisle replaced him and the Pacers are rolling now.
I think it’s safe to say that Isiah knows and can recognize talent. The big question will be how long he can stick around in New York without burning all his bridges, something he’s done everywhere else he’s been.
That wasn’t hyperbole at the end there: Every place Isiah has been, he’s left on bad terms. Detroit? No, we’ll take Joe Dumars, thanks. Toronto deported him, Larry Bird canned him in Indiana, the CBA imploded (after Isiah declined an offer from the NBA to buy the league) and all the owners hated him. He even opened a popcorn store in my neighborhood that recently closed down. For whatever reason, the post-NBA playing career Isiah truly seems to have had a knack for failure.


SLAM ONLINE | » Links: Isiah Thomas is Guilty (http://slamonline.com/online/2007/10/links-isiah-thomas-is-guilty/)

Just saw Zeke short news conference response to the partial verdict..he was mad and promises to appeal. The attempted kiss may have sealed his fate, but looks like he doesn't have to come up with any cash....

I wonder if the distractions of the appeal process will possibly doom the first half of the Knicks season.

Hope he's vindicated. Frankly, I think it's a wash. I think this woman wants money and MSG is a boys' club.

Is Isaiah Thomas related to Clarence Thomas??? Anita Hill resurfaced today on GMA to dispute Justice Thomas' comments in his new book about her harrasment case against him back in the 90's...

You have to be careful what you say and do in the workplace these days. Here in California all managers working at corporations employing more than 50 employees are required to participate in or take a mandatory workplace harrasment course every two years.

Hopefully Zeke will win the appeals process, but using the "b" word freely at work doesn't help the cause...

I work in a female dominated workplace. It's a whole different world. You have to be conditioned to think a different way because you can't relate to women as you would to men. You have to be very careful.

I was actually the victim of this type of experience brought on by a married woman young enough to be my daughter.

It was an awful experience even with the company following up on it and reprimanding the aggressor.

:hoops:

I work in a female dominated workplace. It's a whole different world. You have to be conditioned to think a different way because you can't relate to women as you would to men. You have to be very careful.
True.
:sssh:

I work in a female dominated workplace. It's a whole different world. You have to be conditioned to think a different way because you can't relate to women as you would to men. You have to be very careful.

I've been in that boat. Especially when it's a group that is fairly unfriendly/unhappy most days anyway.

Being a man, I used to sit back and watch the daily fights, revenge planning, just plain dissatisfaction with life play out in full color. Now, that has nothing to do with women being that way in general. It just happened to be the particular group I worked with. I'm currently in the same boat, but with a much happier group of women and there is much less turmoil.

It's just not the same as it used to be. It's not better or worse. Just different.

There is one thing that puzzles me about this verdict.

Let me begin by saying that if Zeke did use the terms toward the defendant that that the jury found him guilty of using than clearly he was guilty of harassment and calls into question his attitude toward women in general.

What puzzles me is that to my knowledge there was never any testimony brought in this trial that Zeke has used either of these terms towards other women that he has worked with over the years.

Does this mean that he has used these terms and other women will or will not now step forward to state such?

or does it mean

that he only used the words toward the defendant and no other woman whom he has worked with?

It is all very puzzling to me. You would think that after all of these years in which he has worked so hard to develop a professional executive image that he would now all of sudden start speaking derogatory cultural slang toward one woman only when he had to be aware aware of the consequence.

This decision by the jurors seems very strange to me especially given the defendant's past history with IBM.

:hoops:

Seems strange to me too. Obviously you can't treat people like that in the workplace...but you would have to be an idiot not to know that. So this woman earns 11 million dollars for claiming harrassment based almost exclusively on her word?.....You know there will be women lining up to file some lawsuits now.

Not a lawyer, but I'm not sure that prior bad acts can be brought up in a case like this. It's not about a pattern of behavior, but about specific acts committed against her - boss in power over a subordinate.

Not a lawyer, but I'm not sure that prior bad acts can be brought up in a case like this. It's not about a pattern of behavior, but about specific acts committed against her - boss in power over a subordinate.

He has been a boss over women for years and many women. So I don't agree with your point on this. All of a sudden he gets into a power trip with only one specific women. If he was that much of a crud with women it would have come up in the media long before this trial. There are many Zeke haters out there who would have jumped at the chance to make him look bad, especially toward women.

The media can bring up stuff, if there is no gag order. I don't believe that there was a gag order.

How come no other women have gone to media with their story about Zeke? A perfect chance to get some revenge if he acted the same way toward them.

This all is very strange.

:hoops:

Well, you asked why there wasn't any testimony in this trail about him having engaged in things like this before. My only point is that those couldn't have been brought up in the trial anyway.

In any event, what he may or may not have done in the past doesn't have any bearing on what he did this time, when a jury sat, listened to the evidence, and found him guilty, which if you listen to what was presented seems to have been a pretty reasonable verdict.

Well, you asked why there wasn't any testimony in this trail about him having engaged in things like this before. My only point is that those couldn't have been brought up in the trial anyway.

In any event, what he may or may not have done in the past doesn't have any bearing on what he did this time, when a jury sat, listened to the evidence, and found him guilty, which if you listen to what was presented seems to have been a pretty reasonable verdict.

Of course what he did in the past has everything to do with it. A person doesn't live there life in a vacuum as a series of random events with no consistency of behavior.

The jury found him guilty. That is the way it is.

But the proof was weak at best. How many witnesses were there that confirmed what he said to her. The only witness I believe that she brought testified what the defendant told her and actually heard him say it?

Would Zeke mistreat the defendant only in private and along with that never have a history of mistreating other female employees?

This whole thing is just strange.

O.J. in reverse.

:hoops:

Agree that when you have a case like this where it is not a felony, but a civil trial, patterns of previous behavior should be brought up by the defense to counteract the plaintiffs charges. I know these were supposedly specifics events/acts but since no one has heard of Isaiah involved such a thing before it would seem that if his attorneys didn't bring it up before, they definitely need to bring it up next time during the appeal process. (

Can't remember off hand if Clarence Thomas had any character witnesses in his trial?)

Also wonder if this case had been held in Los Angeles, would our star struck jurors let him off:sssh:

Agree that when you have a case like this where it is not a felony, but a civil trial, patterns of previous behavior should be brought up by the defense to counteract the plaintiffs charges. I know these were supposedly specifics events/acts but since no one has heard of Isaiah involved such a thing before it would seem that if his attorneys didn't bring it up before, they definitely need to bring it up next time during the appeal process. (

Can't remember off hand if Clarence Thomas had any character witnesses in his trial?)

Also wonder if this case had been held in Los Angeles, would our star struck jurors let him off:sssh:
We all know how effective our court system can be at times. Appeal, and bring anything you can to the table.

Clarence Thomas didn't go to trial did he? He just had a rough confirmation hearing I believe.

Agree that when you have a case like this where it is not a felony, but a civil trial, patterns of previous behavior should be brought up by the defense to counteract the plaintiffs charges. I know these were supposedly specifics events/acts but since no one has heard of Isaiah involved such a thing before it would seem that if his attorneys didn't bring it up before, they definitely need to bring it up next time during the appeal process. (

Can't remember off hand if Clarence Thomas had any character witnesses in his trial?)

Also wonder if this case had been held in Los Angeles, would our star struck jurors let him off:sssh:

The appeal process is about judicial errors during the regular trial. I don't believe what you are suggesting can be done.

The problem for Zeke was. He didn't deny using the words. He didn't deny using them in her presence.

Trying to prove that they weren't directed at her was his problem. In harassment cases where the woman is the plaintiff, the defendant is automatically going to be found guilty by a jury unless, unless he can convince them otherwise. Zeke was not able to prove to the jury's satisfaction that what he said was not directed at her. Hence he was found guilty.

This is what is known as today's politically correct justice.


:hoops:

This article from Foxsports puts the blame on Dolan for poor handling of the situation:





Dolan's people will tell you he chose to go to trial on principle. Only the practical application of that principle was so devastating to the Garden's image that the decision to take on Browne Sanders made the decision to take on Shandon Anderson's contract look like a stroke of personnel genius. According to a former high-ranking Dolan executive, the Garden chairman was actually telling people throughout the trial that he was enjoying his newfound fame

FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Dolan now in pantheon of bad sport owners (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7293368)

The appeal process is about judicial errors during the regular trial. I don't believe what you are suggesting can be done.
:hoops:
I probably should have finished the online law courses at University of Phoenix..., then I would have known this:)

Is it just me, or does Isaiah the Piston seem more like a memory and less like a living legend?

I don't even mean after this case. Just that he has travelled around in the Conference, it's like he has no connection back to Detroit in the last decade. Unlike Horn, Vinnie, Chuck, Joe, Laimbs etc.

I guess the same could be said about Worm.

Is it just me, or does Isaiah the Piston seem more like a memory and less like a living legend?

I don't even mean after this case. Just that he has travelled around in the Conference, it's like he has no connection back to Detroit in the last decade. Unlike Horn, Vinnie, Chuck, Joe, Laimbs etc.

I guess the same could be said about Worm.

That is why I didn't create this thread in the Piston section but instead in the NBA section.

Of course having said that, I think most Bad Boy fans who have been Piston fans for 3 decades or more, or like myself 5 decades plus, still consider Zeke a Piston because so much of their Piston identity is around the Bad Boys and he was their leader.

Given a choice to watch a video of the Pistons victory in 2004 or either of the Bad Boys victories, I would choose the Bad Boys victories almost every time.


:hoops:

Not a lawyer, but I'm not sure that prior bad acts can be brought up in a case like this. It's not about a pattern of behavior, but about specific acts committed against her - boss in power over a subordinate.
Right or wrong, I think that past behavior can play a part in the case.

If there has never been any previous issues with female employees, the defense can use that to their small advantage. But just because someone hasn't done something before, doesn't mean that they didn't or aren't capable of doing, that action. Everyone has to start somewhere. Repeat offenders had never broken the law either before their first time.

However, if there HAD been previous issues, I think that would help the plaintiff's case tremendously.

So I think past behavior has a far greater potential to help the plaintiff than it does the defendant.

Basically, here is the rule on character evidence.

In CIVIL cases it's almost never admissable.

However, if and only if character is a MATERIAL issue in the case, it can be proved by any method (I.e. Conduct, reputation, and/or opinion).

It's rare that you can use it...think of defamation.

Basically, here is the rule on character evidence.

In CIVIL cases it's almost never admissable.

However, if and only if character is a MATERIAL issue in the case, it can be proved by any method (I.e. Conduct, reputation, and/or opinion).

It's rare that you can use it...think of defamation.

I would imagine that non of these jurors were basketball fans and most if not all of them probably never heard of Zeke or at least didn't know anything about him.

In this case inadmissibility works entirely against the defendant because he has no history of any prior action, and that fact would go against the credibility of the plaintiff.

While people can change at any time in their life, I just find it hard to believe that Zeke could have been that dumb, because if he really did harass her that was just plain stupid for a lot of reasons.

I would imagine that none of these jurors were basketball fans and most if not all of them probably never heard of Zeke or at least didn't know anything about him.

.

I mentioned earlier about what do we think the verdict would have been if this case had been held in LA where jurors let most celebrities off.... but reading your comments about the wondering if the jurors were real BB fans or had even heard of Zeke makes me wonder what the verdict would been if this trial had been held in Detroit where everybody knows Thomas? Would the jurors have given him a pass based on his favorite son/Piston lore status? Or as Roscoe mentioned in another post, is he a forgotten Detroit legend who would have been found guilty because of the principle of the matter?

Is it just me, or does Isaiah the Piston seem more like a memory and less like a living legend?

I don't even mean after this case. Just that he has travelled around in the Conference, it's like he has no connection back to Detroit in the last decade. Unlike Horn, Vinnie, Chuck, Joe, Laimbs etc.

I guess the same could be said about Worm.


Those who left the organization seem to distance themselves.......in a bad way.

Those who left the organization seem to distance themselves.......in a bad way.

Which people have distanced themselves in a bad way?

TheSpoof.com : Knicks Tap Clarence Thomas to Replace Isiah Thomas funny satire story (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s6i25362)

Stunned by an $11.6 million sexual harassment verdict for crude remarks and unwanted advances by head coach Isiah Thomas, the New York Knicks today selected Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to lead a team that hasn't won a playoff game in four years out of its current doldrums.

"I'm here to clean house, so somebody get me a Diet Coke and I'll get to work," the normally reticent jurist said at a press conference. "I want to bring the intelligent basketball of the Knicks' glory days back to the Garden," he said, referring to the franchise's roots as the Knickerbockers, an all-Dutch aggregation that invented the back-door play.
:pound:

Basically, here is the rule on character evidence.

In CIVIL cases it's almost never admissable.

However, if and only if character is a MATERIAL issue in the case, it can be proved by any method (I.e. Conduct, reputation, and/or opinion).

It's rare that you can use it...think of defamation.

What are you, some kind of lawyer or something?

Hmm... say what? He is? Oh.... um, never mind.

In response to a Yahoo question about NBA players, "Who is The Most Admired NBA Player", one poster had these comments about Zeke.


http://l.yimg.com/img.avatars.yahoo.com/users/1lWnfjfZEAAEC5OJ83BiZNJNSGQ==.medium.jpg (http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile;_ylt=AirVtGc14jAQf2VgCDyJ4fVVxQt.;_ylv=3?s how=yAOhlLnHaa)
daxjin817 (http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile;_ylt=ArDBhG0N88TsuQpqeVC1YsRVxQt.;_ylv=3?s how=yAOhlLnHaa)i would say Isiah Thomas...not only did he get to enjoy all of his glory days as a player, he's success in the NBA after his playing days is unbelievable. The buying out of Larry brown and Francis' contracts were brilliant moves. The brown contract alone only costed them like 40 mil. Ticket sales are down for the knicks, but so what. The guy keeps himself busy in the office too. All of the intelligent conversations he carries on with this one female associate of his got so interesting that they had to share it in court. Smart move of not taking the settlement. The best part is he still has a job after costing his boss 11 something million dollars, and the most important thing is the dude is still and always will be smiling. What's so funny to him anyways?

For other fans opinions on this question, click on link below.

Who is the most admired NBA player? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071005152603AAwUx9V)

:hoops:

That was a funny post, Buddahfan....for a 12-year-old kid...

That was a funny post, Buddahfan....for a 12-year-old kid...

Yea, I thought so too.

:hoops:

I didn't know that Browne-Sanders was just hired by the University of Buffalo. That is were I got my degrees.



Staff Changes Made in UB Athletic Department

Lambert and Hernandez promoted; Browne Sanders added to staff

Browne Sanders will lead the areas of ticket sales, corporate marketing, event management and game promotions as well as serve as the Senior Woman Administrator. In her capacity as Sr. Associate AD she will also serve as the administrator for the women’s basketball, volleyball and softball programs. Browne Sanders brings impressive credentials to Buffalo as she most recently spent six years as the Senior Vice President for Marketing and Business Operations for the New York Knicks.

My guess is that she took a good sized pay cut. But then she won't need the money unless the verdict is overturned or the amount significantly reduced.

University at Buffalo - Division of Athletics News - Go Bulls! (http://www.ubathletics.buffalo.edu/headlines/news/uba06-21-2007-reorganization.shtml)

:hoops:

So Zeke is going to be getting some religion over what he said about the sisters.

Sharpton: Former Pistons great Thomas owes apology to black women (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/SPORTS0102/710070335/1127)

:hoops: