G HILL - Seems like the main reason he chose to go to the Suns was because he was guaranteed being a starter. Played major minutes in their 1st game. Still can contribute.

BIG BEN - What is wrong with him? Is this the year he finally regrets takin all the money? After 2 games, he has a total of less than 12 rebounds which would have been his average when he was a Piston. Played only 24 minutes tonight against the Sixers which they lost. Bulls now are 0-2 to start the season where most sports analyst pick them to win the central division.

DELFINO - Seems like he got what he wanted at the Toronto. Played more than 30 minutes per game so far.

DARKO - ????

G HILL - Seems like the main reason he chose to go to the Suns was because he was guaranteed being a starter. Played major minutes in their 1st game. Still can contribute.

Wow. I had no idea this guy was so talented. I think Doug Collins was talking about him and said he was the Pistons coach when Grant Hill was on the team. He didn't look too hot with whoever he was with last year (Orlando?) but he looks very gifted with the Suns so far. Like an intelligent ball player.

Lots of players can look good on that team. Imagine someone like Redd playing for them without having to play any D. He'd light up the league.

Wow. I had no idea this guy was so talented. I think Doug Collins was talking about him and said he was the Pistons coach when Grant Hill was on the team. He didn't look too hot with whoever he was with last year (Orlando?) but he looks very gifted with the Suns so far. Like an intelligent ball player.

His BB IQ is one reason why the Pistons drafted him in the first place and it has continued to improve other than his bonehead choice to spurned Joe and go to the Suns.

He would have been perfect backup for Tay last year especially when he ran out of gas in the post season. He could have also played the point subbing for CB instead of Flip juggling Jr and Hunter. Not sure where he would have fit in with Pistons this season now that we have Hayes, and now that Flip Jr seems to have figured out his role with the team.----although he could have taken Dupree's roster spot.:)

Wow. I had no idea this guy was so talented. I think Doug Collins was talking about him and said he was the Pistons coach when Grant Hill was on the team. He didn't look too hot with whoever he was with last year (Orlando?) but he looks very gifted with the Suns so far. Like an intelligent ball player.

Your assessment of the talent that "Mr Softy" has is correct. This is an old nickname of mine for him from his Pistons days, when a number of people thought the Pistons should have gone farther in the playoffs than they did when he was here and put a lot of the blame for us not being to do that on Mr. Softy.

:hoops:

His BB IQ is one reason why the Pistons drafted him in the first place and it has continued to improve other than his bonehead choice to spurned Joe and go to the Suns.

He would have been perfect backup for Tay last year especially when he ran out of gas in the post season. He could have also played the point subbing for CB instead of Flip juggling Jr and Hunter. Not sure where he would have fit in with Pistons this season now that we have Hayes, and now that Flip Jr seems to have figured out his role with the team.----although he could have taken Dupree's roster spot.:)

I think that there is too much bad blood between Mr. Softy and Mr. D. as a result of how Mr. Softy perceives that we mistreated his injury when he was with us to think that Mr. Softy would ever return to play for us again.

Wow. I had no idea this guy was so talented.

It was before your time as a Pistons fan, but Hill was an all-NBA caliber talent for a five-year period where it looked like he might be headed to the Hall of Fame (he was 1st or 2nd team all-NBA each season between '96 and '00), before his career was derailed by injury. Penny Hardaway was a similarly gifted player at the time who also got hit hard by injuries.

It was before your time as a Pistons fan, but Hill was an all-NBA caliber talent for a five-year period where it looked like he might be headed to the Hall of Fame (he was 1st or 2nd team all-NBA each season between '96 and '00), before his career was derailed by injury. Penny Hardaway was a similarly gifted player at the time who also got hit hard by injuries.

He also failed to ever lead the Pistons past the first round in the playoffs when most professional basketball people thought the Pistons should have advanced much father into the playoffs and generally blamed Mr. Softy for the Pistons failure to do that.

:hoops:

DARKO - ????

darko is getting what he wants in memphis. he's getting a chance to start and play. he's been pretty dominant defensively. offensively he's just getting a few post up attempts so far. this is a new coaching staff and new players and they are still learning each other. stay tuned.

darko is getting what he wants in memphis. he's getting a chance to start and play. he's been pretty dominant defensively. offensively he's just getting a few post up attempts so far. this is a new coaching staff and new players and they are still learning each other. stay tuned.

Personally, I think Darko is doomed because od the jealousy of the other players.

darko is getting what he wants in memphis. he's getting a chance to start and play. he's been pretty dominant defensively. offensively he's just getting a few post up attempts so far. this is a new coaching staff and new players and they are still learning each other. stay tuned.

The beauty of the Darko saga is even if we don't want to stay tuned, we're forced to.

The beauty of the Darko saga is even if we don't want to stay tuned, we're forced to.

Who is this Garko you keep talking about?

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20070627/7503.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=jOQkUPdbEBByqsHBCgIxyg--

:hoops:

Here're some stats for the ex-Pistons:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2333/formerbl6.png (http://imageshack.us)

Hill & Big Ben was in action last nite. Hill still can play no doubt. Would have been awesome if he played for us this season. However, the Suns guaranteed him being a starter for the team. He would have been the leader on our bench, thus sending Hunter to retirement and would not have sign Hayes. This means that we would have signed Meija.

I'm not 100% sure I'd take Hill over Hayes right now.

He's probably better, but the odds of him missing games is pretty high. There is also a reasonable chance that he will have a reoccuring glitch and be forced into retirement.

Darko is ballin' now.

Delfinio is Toronto's best man to man defender

Hill is a classy player who is uber talented. Still one of my favorite former Pistons and I think the Mr. Softy nickname is inaccurate.

Big Ben finally has a Pistons-like game this season last nite (stats wise).

42 min, 13 rebounds, 3 blocks and 6 steals. That's the Big Ben we used to seeing. Maybe he has finally recover from the ankle injury and start putting up numbers like that. Although he's not a Piston anymore, I still wish him well. Cuz without him, we would not have the 2004 ship. And we would not the so called 'Best Starting 5' in the league.

Pistons 2004-2005 Starting 5 vs Pistons 2007-2008 Starting 5, who is better. My vote is Big Ben's 'Starting 5'.

Big Ben finally has a Pistons-like game this season last nite (stats wise).

42 min, 13 rebounds, 3 blocks and 6 steals. That's the Big Ben we used to seeing. Maybe he has finally recover from the ankle injury and start putting up numbers like that. Although he's not a Piston anymore, I still wish him well. Cuz without him, we would not have the 2004 ship. And we would not the so called 'Best Starting 5' in the league.

Pistons 2004-2005 Starting 5 vs Pistons 2007-2008 Starting 5, who is better. My vote is Big Ben's 'Starting 5'.

He played a really good game last night and when it counted he kept Kaman from doing any damage down low.

I agree. I would rather have Big Ben at $6 million a year than Nazr.

:hoops:

He played a really good game last night and when it counted he kept Kaman from doing any damage down low.

I agree. I would rather have Big Ben at $6 million a year than Nazr.

:hoops:
Can we have Ben at that price?

Can we have Ben at that price?

Don't we wish!! LOL
:hoops:

Vintage Ben tonight

10 pts, 19 rbs (8 off), 2 asts, 5 stls, 4 blks

in another bounceback win for the Bulls; CHA was outrebounded 48 to 24 :tsk:

Vintage Ben tonight

10 pts, 19 rbs (8 off), 2 asts, 5 stls, 4 blks




GO BEN! :p_welldone::cheerleader::greenapple:

It was before your time as a Pistons fan, but Hill was an all-NBA caliber talent for a five-year period where it looked like he might be headed to the Hall of Fame (he was 1st or 2nd team all-NBA each season between '96 and '00), before his career was derailed by injury. Penny Hardaway was a similarly gifted player at the time who also got hit hard by injuries.

the problem hill has with the suns is he can't hit the 3. that's a big part of their game. he continues to chuck em up, but he's never been able to nail them on a consistent enough basis. he still has game in other areas though which is probably a blessing to the suns. but i can't help but think sometime down the road in the playoffs he is going to be called on to be able to hit that open 3, and he won't be able to do it.

the problem hill has with the suns is he can't hit the 3. that's a big part of their game. he continues to chuck em up, but he's never been able to nail them on a consistent enough basis. he still has game in other areas though which is probably a blessing to the suns. but i can't help but think sometime down the road in the playoffs he is going to be called on to be able to hit that open 3, and he won't be able to do it.

If Hill is true to form the Suns will get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs this year.!! LOL

:hoops:

Hill at New York :-

36 min, 13-17 for 28 pts, 8 rebounds, 7 asst and 3 steals. This guy can still play at All Star level. FG% at almost 49% this season so far.

Here's an approx. 20 game update:

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6329/playerlb8.png (http://imageshack.us)

How come we don't hear anything this year about Mike "Bulldog" James. Last year he was the talk of the town. This year he ain't gettin' any love?

Breakout of sanity?

Nazr had another big night for the Bobcats
8-11, 20 Pts
14 Rebs, 1 Assists, 4 blocks

wtf man did he ever have a 14 board night as a piston 4 blocks what did MJ do to Nazr?

well he did have 14 boards in 17 minutes for us not too long ago

Hard for him to get a rebound from the bench. Doesn't quite have that kind of reach.

December 22, 2007
FREE PRESS NEWS SERVICES


CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Nazr Mohammed -- acquired from the Pistons in a trade the week before -- scored 20 points and grabbed 14 rebounds in leading the Charlotte Bobcats to a 105-95 victory Friday night over the listless New York Knicks.


The last time Mohammed scored 20 points or more was on March 17, 2006, as a San Antonio Spur. He had 30 points and 16 rebounds in 108-102 victory over Phoenix.

He never hit 20 for the Pistons.
In spite of games like that, the Spurs let him go.

NBA ROUNDUP: Ex-Piston Nazr Mohammed shines for Bobcats; Isiah blows up (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071222/SPORTS03/712220356/1051)

:hoops:

I'm really happy that Nazr is playing great right now. That means other teams will be open to trading for our players since they tend to thrive when they go to new teams (at least for awhile). That being said, Nazr is servicable but I think he's a big stiff. He's got bad handles and unless you put the ball right in his sweet spot he always seems to fumble the pass. He's pretty slow and doesn't have that hard nosed attitude that demands respect in the paint. He's a veteran and a good guy so I hope he does really well in Charlotte and I'm just tickled we're not paying his salary anymore.

Here is an interesting stat.

Rebounds per 48 minutes.

The leader right now is Marcus Camby at 20 per 48 minutes

Of those that qualify McDyess is our leader at 12.6, which makes him #38 in the league. AJ right now is at 14.4 rebounds per 48 minutes which if he had enough minutes would put him at his age or the 20th best in the league.

Why is this post in the Ex Pistons thread, because Nazmo is 18th in the league at 14.6 rebounds per 48 minutes.

This puts Nazmo and AJ ahead of KG, Yao Ming, Shawn Marion, Big Ben, Shaq, A. Stoudemire among others in rebounds per 48 minutes.

ESPN - NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&qual=true&qual=true&sort=totreb&league=nba&split=0&season=2008&seasontype=2&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=all)

Miller calls out ex-Piston Okur for disappearing act

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

You have to love the honesty of Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller, as long as you don't work for him. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Miller blasted some of his players on a local radio show last week.


Start with former Piston Mehmet Okur, who is out with a shoulder injury but shooting less than 20-percent on 3-pointers.


"Memo has absolutely disappeared on us," Miller said. "But that was last year at the All-Star Game and he didn't make it back yet. I'm not sure what on earth has happened with him."


Wow.
Miller calls out ex-Piston Okur for disappearing act (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071224/SPORTS0102/712240312/1127)

:hoops:

Here is an interesting stat.

Rebounds per 48 minutes.

The leader right now is Marcus Camby at 20 per 48 minutes

Of those that qualify McDyess is our leader at 12.6, which makes him #38 in the league. AJ right now is at 14.4 rebounds per 48 minutes which if he had enough minutes would put him at his age or the 20th best in the league.

Why is this post in the Ex Pistons thread, because Nazmo is 18th in the league at 14.6 rebounds per 48 minutes.

This puts Nazmo and AJ ahead of KG, Yao Ming, Shawn Marion, Big Ben, Shaq, A. Stoudemire among others in rebounds per 48 minutes.

ESPN - NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&qual=true&qual=true&sort=totreb&league=nba&split=0&season=2008&seasontype=2&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=all)
Nazr wasn't going to get the minutes playing for the Pistons. Generally, he just wasn't a good fit here. Even with that, it is just strange that he is capable of putting up those numbers, but unable to do so on the Pistons team. Lets see if he can maintain those numbers.

Nazr wasn't going to get the minutes playing for the Pistons. Generally, he just wasn't a good fit here. Even with that, it is just strange that he is capable of putting up those numbers, but unable to do so on the Pistons team. Lets see if he can maintain those numbers.

He was rebounding for us. That was his only strong suit. He looked like a stiff, but he was a big body and went nosefirst into crowds for boards (like Jeff Foster). Are we missing his rebounding so far? Not really. However, it seems to be working out for Charlotte. This could have been one of those rare win/win trades.

Well, all of the excitement seems to be winding down. Delfino is cooling off, Ben clearly struggling, and Mohammed, well, he's just what he is - after a splash back to mediocrity.

Well, all of the excitement seems to be winding down. Delfino is cooling off, Ben clearly struggling, and Mohammed, well, he's just what he is - after a splash back to mediocrity.



Damon Jones wants out of Cleveland and Chucky Atkins scored 13 points his first game back from injury with Nuggets but quiet since.


How's Mo Evans doing these days in Orlando? Is he still wearing his arm and leg tights?

The Pistons traded Delfino last summer for two second-round draft picks after three years of inconsistency. In Flip Saunders' two seasons as coach, he used Delfino as Tayshaun Prince's primary backup. But Delfino never looked fully comfortable playing with the Pistons, and Saunders never developed a high rate of confidence in him.

As a result, his minutes and role fluctuated.

Things have change in Toronto.

"He's probably more comfortable from a couple of standpoints," Saunders said. "They've got a lot of foreign players. ... And just how they play. They play a very open style of game. They shoot a lot of threes, a lot of perimeter, not as much inside. He's played well for them."


Herrmann would also probably be more comfortable playing some place else.

Brezec is in my opinion a slightly different story, but my guess is that he won't be back either next year.

PISTONS CORNER: Delfino okay with ex-teammates (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080105/SPORTS03/801050355/1051)

:hoops:

Delfino's has a good season overall for Toronto, but he actually had one of his worst games yet with them yesterday against the Pistons.

Delfino's has a good season overall for Toronto, but he actually had one of his worst games yet with them yesterday against the Pistons.

Shooting 40% from the field and 66% from the foul line. I would hate to see what a bad season for him is.

It seems to me that Delfino has two pretty good skills as an NBA player.

1. He is a decent 3 point shooter
2. He is an above average rebounder for a #3.

His game is definitely better suited for the European style of play.

Carlos Delfino - Toronto Raptors - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3728)

Grant Hill: I really wasnt expecting him to start in the lineup but he did nd he is playing good his ankle seems fine he could very solitify his career in phoenix not just wrap it up

Ben Wallace: Really he hasn't been as good in Chicago as he was in Detroit.He started the season of rough, but hes picking it up and led his team to a comeback victory the other night still the one thought that comes to my mind when i think of ben wallace is: "Mo' Money Mo' Problems"

Darko Milicic: Really right now in memphis darko is playing just as he would if he was still in detroit. wich is average. He is deffinately not playing like he did in orlando though. he has'nt made the adjustment to memphis yet

Carlos Delfino: He really has'nt played as well as he did in Detroit despite getting a lot MORE minutes. At least nothing statworthy. He doesent have the right teamates to become the energy delfino

I guess Baby Fats is still soft as a baby's bottom



Jazz not likely to deal for Pacers Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Jazz-not-likely-to-deal-for-Pacers-Foster?urn=nba,65048)

Monday, Feb 4, 2008 1:03 pm EST

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_rumors__26/ept_sports_rumors-239465263-1202148186.jpg?ymbdO3.CldwtQfq5Getty Images

According to a one-line note from NBA columnist Mitch Lawrence in Sunday's New York Daily News, "Looking for a big man who can rebound and guard — something its own (starting center) Mehmet Okur (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3547/) is not always inclined to do — the Utah Jazz (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/uth/) has targeted the Indiana Pacers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind/)' Jeff Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3344/) for a potential deal."


The Jazz indeed have had interest in Foster for some time, but there is no current reason whatsoever to believe a deal to pry the 6-foot-11 center from the Pacers could be put together this month.


Jazz coach Jerry Sloan was asked about potential deals involving Utah — though not specifically anything about Foster — just last Friday. He suggested then that nothing is in the works and that he didn't anticipate any major deals being made by the club in February.


Source: Deseret Morning News (http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695249971,00.html)http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/nt/ic/ut/bsc/newwin12_1.gif (http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695249971,00.html)

This doesn't surprise me. Most players with heavy European backgrounds like Okur and Gasol tend to be softer than players with American backgrounds. Of course we can all name a number of prominent exceptions.

Maybe that is why Sir Charles said "you can't win when your toughest player is a kicker"; i.e., European trained.

Rumors - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors;_ylt=Apdx0g9m829hSaZNZ0YvY.i8vLYF)

:hoops:

You can't just look at Delfino's shooting %. You have to factor in the 3-pointers that he hits with the eFG.

His eFG is .508 compared to Prince's .469.

So, regardless of their regular shooting %, Delfino gets more points per shot than Prince.

Also, he has the best on-court defensive stats on the Raptors.

You can't just look at Delfino's shooting %. You have to factor in the 3-pointers that he hits with the eFG.

His eFG is .508 compared to Prince's .469.

So, regardless of their regular shooting %, Delfino gets more points per shot than Prince.

Also, he has the best on-court defensive stats on the Raptors.

Based on his game against the Lakers last week, Delfino still can't finish at the rim, though his defensive seems to have improved from the days when he played for Brown. Delfino actually started twice as many games playing for Brown in 2004-05 then he has the rest of his career including this year with the Raptors.

NBA.com : Carlos Delfino Career Stats Page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carlos_delfino/career_stats.html)

:hoops:

All that really matters is playing time. You know how coaches like bringing Argentinian wingmen off the bench.

As for Okur, the local columnist seems to be correcting the mistaken viewpoint of the New Yorker. Okur doesn't rebound and he can't block shots, but he's a fair to good man defender (playing in Utah helps, as Malone would attest). The job he did on Yao in last year's playoffs was quite good.

Maybe that is why Sir Charles said "you can't win when your toughest player is a kicker"; i.e., European trained.Charles Barkley knows soft.

Which Phoenix Sun has ever played in Europe? Unless you're using "European" as a synonym for "white."

Charles Barkley knows soft.

Which Phoenix Sun has ever played in Europe? Unless you're using "European" as a synonym for "white."

I am just quoting Sir Charles. Draw your own conclusions.

D. Wade knows soft. Anyone nicknamed "Pooky" has got to be soft. LOL

:hoops:

I am just quoting Sir Charles. Draw your own conclusions.
You were the one who added the "European-trained" to the end, though. Which one's that? Cali-Canadian Nash?
D. Wade knows soft. Anyone nicknamed "Pooky" has got to be soft.
Wade plays more defense than I ever remember Chuck playing, though.

You were the one who added the "European-trained" to the end, though. Which one's that? Cali-Canadian Nash?

Wade plays more defense than I ever remember Chuck playing, though.

Draw your own conclusions about what Sir Charles said which was "Any team whose toughest player is a kicker ain't going to win a NBA championship"

I was joking about Wade.

:hoops:

Jackson also talked openly about Parker, who flamed out in his second season with the Lakers and signed a two-year, $4.7-million contract with Miami before this season. He played only nine games before being suspended indefinitely in November after an alleged altercation with a valet-parking attendant.

"I had hopes for Smush in my exit meeting with him last year, talked to him about trying to get himself motivated in a way that might be different than what he'd done in the past," Jackson said. "I just don't know what went wrong. I haven't stayed close enough to that situation.

"But Smush can get on the backside of an issue and make it worse, unfortunately. He was the kind of kid that if he got a bad call in a game, he might let it affect him for two minutes and then get a technical two minutes later because it would kind of burn, ignite and the ember wouldn't go away."
Sign Up (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep11feb11,1,419957.story?ctrack=1&cset=true)

:hoops:

Oh Smush...

I never understood the big deal about this kid anyway. We knew when he came to Detroit that he had a screw loose. He should be happy he got that Miami contract.

Darko's damn lucky he has another two years on that contract. If it were up this summer he might very well be out of the league.

Darko's damn lucky he has another two years on that contract. If it were up this summer he might very well be out of the league.

He is looking mighty sucky indeed. Total mental collapse.

It is crazy to think that he is still young enough to be right out of college.

Primo just scored 11 on 5-for-5 shooting against the Knicks.

How's it gonna be when the Celtics pick up Flip Murray?

If they do that, he'll probably get playing time with them as the backup point guard. Also, there is the possibility that he could win the starting spot (?) or maybe get there through injury of Rondo.

I know he didn't fit with us, but he's dangerous and it would suck if he improved Bos.

Flip's got a career playoff average of 32%. If Boston wants to play him over Eddie House or Rondo, more power to them.

He can drive though. With KG, Pierce, and Allen out there, I think he could be effective.

There must be some reason Boston is interested.

He can get to the rim against very small guards and ones who didn't pay enough attention to the line in the scouting report that says PLAY TEN FEET OFF OF HIM AT ALL TIMES.

He could be effective in Boston if he's willing to move without the ball, which he wasn't when he was here. But even if he does, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Flip Murray is a weapon. Plain and simple. The Celts could use him and I guarantee that the Pistons would not be able to keep him out of the paint any better than they could Jason Williams when he was torching Detroit in the Miami series they lost.


Its easy to pretend he isnt a baller but in reality if he couldnt make an open jumper at his size he wouldnt be in the NBA. Period.

I guarantee that the Pistons would not be able to keep him out of the paint
Just like the Pistons couldn't keep him out of the paint (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html) when he started for the Cavaliers the same year, right?

Just like the Pistons couldn't keep him out of the paint (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html) when he started for the Cavaliers the same year, right?

That Cavalier team's talent level is nowhere near the level of the Boston Celtics of this year or the Miami team that won the championship.


You're comparing apples to oranges.

just thinking aloud.... why is every person nailed to our bench the answer to all our in game problems and why is every player we can't find time for on court going to be the reason we'll lose in a game/series.....

If boston beats us in May its not going to because Murrey is the 2nd coming of MJ. for every point he'll score he'll give up 4.

just thinking aloud.... why is every person nailed to our bench the answer to all our in game problems and why is every player we can't find time for on court going to be the reason we'll lose in a game/series.....


Because we don't have major problems and because we are so deep that we are shedding very good players.

Nazr and Flip Murray are way better than other team's worst 2 players. When you add Primoz into that, we have basically kicked 3 guys with starting experience out the door. I'm not disputing our logic, but I am also not discounting the possibility that one of these guys could help a contender. Murray is the only left who might still go to a team that is on the brink.

delfino's line.
23 points
38 min
7-9 fg
6-7 3point
3-4 free throws
5 rebounds
1 assist
3 turnovers
1 block

delfino is better than hayes. he just needed opportunity and a role. some people thought he couldn't shoot in detroit but it was more like when you shoot 3 times every 4 games it's hard to get a rhythm. fino rebounds better than hayes and defends better than him plus provides ball handling. man it's crazy to imagine delfino with the zoo crew instead of hayes now that would be a good defensive unit.

delfino's line.
23 points
38 min
7-9 fg
6-7 3point
3-4 free throws
5 rebounds
1 assist
3 turnovers
1 block

delfino is better than hayes. he just needed opportunity and a role. some people thought he couldn't shoot in detroit but it was more like when you shoot 3 times every 4 games it's hard to get a rhythm. fino rebounds better than hayes and defends better than him plus provides ball handling. man it's crazy to imagine delfino with the zoo crew instead of hayes now that would be a good defensive unit.

sorry your comparing apples and oranges..... hayes is getting the same numbers roughly delfino got in the same mins... if hayes was given more mins every game who's to say his numbers wouldn't be great.

Every excuse you make for delfino for the last 3 years can now be used to say why Hayes has been ineffective this year. We need a back up not a starting 3, a backup has to be ready to be able to make an impact in 5 mins or 30 mins depending on the night.

I think its safe at this point to say BOTH of them havn't worked in detroits system and were going to look for another option.

Their stats are not that different. If you prorate Haye's minutes to match CD's, then here is how they look:

CD/JH
9.7/9.7 points
4.6/3.1 rebounds
1.8/1.0 assists
0.9/1.0 steals

.508/.503 eFG%
25%/18% percentage of shots from the paint

Their shooting is the same. Carlos is a little more well rounded and definitely plays better defense.

We probably should have played him last year and kept him, but we didn't and we have a suitable replacement.

delfino's line.
23 points
38 min
7-9 fg
6-7 3point
3-4 free throws
5 rebounds
1 assist
3 turnovers
1 block

delfino is better than hayes. he just needed opportunity and a role. some people thought he couldn't shoot in detroit but it was more like when you shoot 3 times every 4 games it's hard to get a rhythm. fino rebounds better than hayes and defends better than him plus provides ball handling. man it's crazy to imagine delfino with the zoo crew instead of hayes now that would be a good defensive unit.
He's inconsistent as well. He'll go next two games without scoring. Just look at his game log.

Their shooting is the same. Carlos is a little more well rounded and definitely plays better defense.

We probably should have played him last year and kept him, but we didn't and we have a suitable replacement.
same numbers + better defense + better ballhandling = better in my opinion.

i don't mind us trading him. i just don't think we got equal value for the guy. 2 second rounders is not enough. even if we were only freeing up space for jarvis i don't think he's an upgrade over fino.

He's inconsistent as well. He'll go next two games without scoring. Just look at his game log.

i wouldn't call jarvis consistent either. i also know delfino at least brings intangibles when he's not scoring. jarvis it's either dropping 3 balls or nothing.

Their stats are not that different. If you prorate Haye's minutes to match CD's, then here is how they look:

CD/JH
9.7/9.7 points
4.6/3.1 rebounds
1.8/1.0 assists
0.9/1.0 steals

.508/.503 eFG%
25%/18% percentage of shots from the paint

Their shooting is the same. Carlos is a little more well rounded and definitely plays better defense.

We probably should have played him last year and kept him, but we didn't and we have a suitable replacement.
Are backup 2/3 fiasco over the past couple years can be blamed on Flip. He has never accepted the game of any backup at this position for Detroit. Reality is, unlike DMC, Delfino has turned into the player people thought he would be. A quality backup, streaky shooter, good D, and can play 3 positions. Delfino would never have developed in Detroit, but I have to bet Joe D isn't too happy about how this has gone down.

The upside, Joe has learned and is not letting Flip repeat the same crap with our current youngsters.

Are backup 2/3 fiasco over the past couple years can be blamed on Flip. He has never accepted the game of any backup at this position for Detroit. Reality is, unlike DMC, Delfino has turned into the player people thought he would be. A quality backup, streaky shooter, good D, and can play 3 positions. Delfino would never have developed in Detroit, but I have to bet Joe D isn't too happy about how this has gone down.

The upside, Joe has learned and is not letting Flip repeat the same crap with our current youngsters.

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit?

How Delfino plays in Toronto isn't something what flip can control. And Hayes plays less minutes per game than Delfino. And keep in mind that toronto plays more open style than detroit: more shots, more open shots, more rebounds, more turnovers etc (read: more losses and first round exit)

just thinking aloud.... why is every person nailed to our bench the answer to all our in game problems and why is every player we can't find time for on court going to be the reason we'll lose in a game/series.....

If boston beats us in May its not going to because Murrey is the 2nd coming of MJ. for every point he'll score he'll give up 4.


Really?

So If he scores 20 Chauncey will be in line to break Kobe's 81? Cause Flip can drop 20 on us without blinking in Bostons system.

All the Pistons have to do is make a few mistakes, which they are known to do. Leave him open, miss a rotation, put him on the line a few times....20 points.

I'd rather Flip Murray was on Denvers bench right now with JR Smith sitting next to Lindsey than for Boston to have 1 more guy that Chauncey will not be able to stay in front of.

Aren't you exaggerating a little bit?

How Delfino plays in Toronto isn't something what flip can control. And Hayes plays less minutes per game than Delfino. And keep in mind that toronto plays more open style than detroit: more shots, more open shots, more rebounds, more turnovers etc (read: more losses and first round exit)
yes but flip could control how he used delfino in detroit. delfino could have played the same role hayes plays in detroit now except better. it's clear he's a better defender without doubt. also he would have done it cheaper.

toronto plays an open style but jarvis hayes isn't having problems getting shots up. hayes plays less minutes because he can't play 3 positions like fino. there is no exaggeration that we didn't develop fino like we should have.

yes but flip could control how he used delfino in detroit. delfino could have played the same role hayes plays in detroit now except better. it's clear he's a better defender without doubt. also he would have done it cheaper.

toronto plays an open style but jarvis hayes isn't having problems getting shots up. hayes plays less minutes because he can't play 3 positions like fino. there is no exaggeration that we didn't develop fino like we should have.

But maybe are things just very simple: open style suits to Fino better than half-court execution. Fan's common mistake is assume that all you need is to develope that player "this way" and problems solved.

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/persistence.jpg .......

yes but flip could control how he used delfino in detroit. delfino could have played the same role hayes plays in detroit now except better. it's clear he's a better defender without doubt. also he would have done it cheaper.

toronto plays an open style but jarvis hayes isn't having problems getting shots up. hayes plays less minutes because he can't play 3 positions like fino. there is no exaggeration that we didn't develop fino like we should have.

Flip wanted Fino to be consistent with inconsistent minutes. It is only the last handfull of games that I think Flip finally understands. You can't play your bench 10-20 minutes each one game and turn around the next with a bunch of DNP-CD's and expect thme to be consistent. If anything; a young player( like Fino was and is); needs to know he is going to play about X number of minutes at X time of the game. That is what has been the difference in our bench play this year.

Look what happens to the bench in the second half if Flip screws up the first half substitutions? It takes them longer to get in a rhythm in the second half. This will become less important asthey mature but when they are young; there is nothing like being consistent with them to get consistency out of them.

Could you imagine Stuck, AA, Delfino, Max and AJ on the floor togehter after getting acquainted with each others games? That would have been awesome!!!!!!!!

Flip wanted Fino to be consistent with inconsistent minutes. It is only the last handfull of games that I think Flip finally understands. You can't play your bench 10-20 minutes each one game and turn around the next with a bunch of DNP-CD's and expect thme to be consistent. If anything; a young player( like Fino was and is); needs to know he is going to play about X number of minutes at X time of the game. That is what has been the difference in our bench play this year.

Look what happens to the bench in the second half if Flip screws up the first half substitutions? It takes them longer to get in a rhythm in the second half. This will become less important asthey mature but when they are young; there is nothing like being consistent with them to get consistency out of them.


Could you imagine Stuck, AA, Delfino, Max and AJ on the floor togehter after getting acquainted with each others games? That would have been awesome!!!!!!!!

Flip has mentioned that for him is that league as league of match-ups: that 's why inconsistent mins for bench last year. Bench was so bad , if you remember , in many games starting 5 had to become back and finish the game cuz bench had lost big lead.

Bench was so bad , if you remember , in many games starting 5 had to become back and finish the game cuz bench had lost big lead.
It's funny how memory changes to suit the intent.

Flip has mentioned that for him is that league as league of match-ups: that 's why inconsistent mins for bench last year. Bench was so bad , if you remember , in many games starting 5 had to become back and finish the game cuz bench had lost big lead.
the bench wasn't bad last year. it was essentially the same players. it's just that when the bench played last year it would often be after several games of not playing. inconsistent mins = inconsistent production.

the bench wasn't bad last year. it was essentially the same players. it's just that when the bench played last year it would often be after several games of not playing. inconsistent mins = inconsistent production.

Problem was, and this problem has been adressed by now, was that you never knew what flip jr, lindsey or blalock were going to do. Delfino and Dice were solid, but a lot of this solidness depended on how beforementioned ballhandlers did their job.

Flip has allowed afflalo and stuckey to play through theri mistakes cuz they are young and learning, so you can hope they will "delete" their bad habits. But flip jr and LH are vets: mistakes allowed to rookies shouldn't be allowed to vets. That's why inconsistent mins for bench last year.

I have tried to offer more rationalized explanations why Flip does this or that cuz all those emotional bashings are...stupid.

that cuz all those emotional bashings are...stupid.
Yes. It's great to see fans so passionate, but not so irrational at times.

I have tried to offer more rationalized explanations why Flip does this or that cuz all those emotional bashings are...stupid.
Implicit in this is the idea that Flip is rational, and that emotion does not play a strong role in NBA coaching. I'm not sure either is warranted.

Stupid? Stupid is as stupid does. We're the ones paying to watch a children's game.

delfino could have played the same role hayes plays in detroit now except better.

NO. Hayes keeps his mouth shut and gives us some games of playing well, some not so well. Delfino whined and cried and couldn't play inside his team's system. Good riddance!

Are you posting on the Toronto board about how well their coach is using Delfino?

Some good games by ex-Pistons tonight.

Arroyo
13 points/ 3 rebs/ 8 assists

Evans
11 points/ 2 rebs

Hill
8 points/ 5 rebs/ 3 assists

Darko
11 points/ 11 rebs/ 1 assist

Okur
17 points/ 13 rebs/ 2 assists

TOTAL
60 points/ 34 rebs/ 16 assists


Even our cast offs are good.

Jerry Chokehouse comes through again.

2-9 FG, 3 PF in 29 minutes starting.

Avery Johnson isn't rational.

Grant Hill had 5 pts and 7 rbs in 28 minutes. Not what one would've expected.

I'll give you three guesses as to why. (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/114365)

I'll give you three guesses as to why. (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/114365)
I don't think I need any guesses when it comes to Grant Hill. He should've come to Detroit and limited his time. His body just can't take all that playing.