At Chicago Nov 8 8PM

tv: TNT

Have to wait until Thurday for the next Pistons game. Welcome rest for the team.

Gives Amir some of that practice time that the coach is requiring before he can get on the floor.

Gives Amir some of that practice time that the coach is requiring before he can get on the floor.

Amir's absence in recent games is because of an injury. If he is going to be an important piece to the team, why rush him back?

Amir played against Orlando. He looked fine, just a little unprepared for NBA tempo action.

Read it over at mlive that Big Ben is not healthy. Anyone knows why?

Amir played against Orlando. He looked fine, just a little unprepared for NBA tempo action.

I read that he had some swelling and soreness after the Orlando game. When healthy, i think Amir is NBA-ready for major minutes. I've got an AHOF membership card. I'd like to see him getting 15-20 mpg. I'd hate to see a setback because he was rushed back into action, though.

Read it over at mlive that Big Ben is not healthy. Anyone knows why?

He sprained an ankle in the pre-season against the Bucks. Maybe he has been playing through it and it hasn't healed yet.

He's been terrible, so I hope that it is because of the ankle.

Ben is averaging 3.7 rebounds in 30 minutes of PT. Tyrus Thomas is getting 8 rebs in the same about of time.

Ben is shooting 36% from the floor and 38% from the line.


He has 3 defensive rebounds in 90 minutes this year! Mugsy Bogues could do that.

i know this is the chicago thread, but the atlanta game was not the right one to put him in. now he'll have a full 4-5 days of rest for that ankle before the chicago game.

Amir played against Orlando. He looked fine, just a little unprepared for NBA tempo action.

Third-year forward Amir Johnson saw his first playing time this season in the final five minutes of the Pistons' win over the Magic. Johnson missed all but one game of the preseason with a sprained ankle, and soreness in his Achilles tendon has limited his practice time since then.
Johnson had that left foot iced after the game. He finished with two points, four rebounds, a block, and a turnover.


PISTONS HOME OPENER 7:30 TONIGHT, FSN: Pistons utilize Tayshaun Prince's diverse talents (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071104/SPORTS03/711040681/1051&imw=Y)

Ben's injury sounds like it could be worse than just a sprain:


If you think Ben Wallace hasn't looked like himself in quietly amassing just nine rebounds, three blocks and zero steals in the Bulls' first two losses, that's because he says he isn't.

Asked if the sprained left ankle that slowed him late in preseason is affecting his jumping, Wallace cocked his eyebrow and gave a telling response.

"Ain't been doing no jumping," Wallace said.

Wallace barely played in the second half of Friday's home loss the 76ers because of his inactivity, not injury. But Wallace said he still is icing and using a stimulation device daily on his ankle.

"When I stop and try to plant, it don't feel stable," Wallace said.


Fouls come fast, make Hinrich furious on ChicagoSports.com (http://tinyurl.com/27cxc8)

So now if Pistons win everyone will say that it doesn't count because Ben is injured.
:stirthepot:

Just thought I'd look into getting tickets for this game. $275 is the cheapest seat in the lower section. About $170 for the upper deck. And at least $50 for the seats in the rafters.

I was hoping the prices would be down due to the Bulls slow start. If this were Kobe's first game in Chi, I wonder what the prices would be.

I like going to games, but $170-$275 for a regular season game seems way too steep. $50 seems like a lot too, compared to watching on TV for free.

Just thought I'd look into getting tickets for this game. $275 is the cheapest seat in the lower section. About $170 for the upper deck. And at least $50 for the seats in the rafters.

I was hoping the prices would be down due to the Bulls slow start. If this were Kobe's first game in Chi, I wonder what the prices would be.

I like going to games, but $170-$275 for a regular season game seems way too steep. $50 seems like a lot too, compared to watching on TV for free.

It makes you wonder who is paying that kind of money to see those games. I thought it was bad when I went to a preseason Pistons game and they were selling beers for $8.50...but then I looked around and a bunch of people were buying them. But the people who will buy Ben Wallace's cheap shoes probably won't go to many games.

I guess I can consider myself lucky paying $55 for 2 Warriors/Pistons tickets for the 1st row in the upper bowl.
:nerd2:

I heard a stat the other day that there are 70,000 millionaires in Seattle (I may have heard that from the Sonics announcer). Since Chicago is so much bigger, I would assume that the number is probably closer to 150,000 here.

I'm not saying the Bulls shouldn't be charging high prices, but I'm just amazed that they can get it.

Golf course prices are similarly inflated here. A $50 course in Michigan is easily $100 in Chicago... and you have to drive pretty far to get to them. And the courses are packed, so the rates are justified.

I heard a stat the other day that there are 70,000 millionaires in Seattle (I may have heard that from the Sonics announcer). Since Chicago is so much bigger, I would assume that the number is probably closer to 150,000 here.

I'm not saying the Bulls shouldn't be charging high prices, but I'm just amazed that they can get it.

Golf course prices are similarly inflated here. A $50 course in Michigan is easily $100 in Chicago... and you have to drive pretty far to get to them. And the courses are packed, so the rates are justified.

The papers out here report that stat frequently. That's quite a few millionaires for a city with just over half a million people.

Of course, Sonics games are 15 bucks for the bleacher seats, and the arena is pretty small.

PISTONS HOME OPENER 7:30 TONIGHT, FSN: Pistons utilize Tayshaun Prince's diverse talents (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071104/SPORTS03/711040681/1051&imw=Y)

As I posted elsewhere they even iced his ankle after the Atlanta game because he had been exercising on the bench to keep his Achilles lose for the game, just in case Flip called his number.

So I guess it is still exercise and ice for AJ, at least for a while longer.

:hoops:

I heard a stat the other day that there are 70,000 millionaires in Seattle (I may have heard that from the Sonics announcer). Since Chicago is so much bigger, I would assume that the number is probably closer to 150,000 here.

I'm not saying the Bulls shouldn't be charging high prices, but I'm just amazed that they can get it.

Golf course prices are similarly inflated here. A $50 course in Michigan is easily $100 in Chicago... and you have to drive pretty far to get to them. And the courses are packed, so the rates are justified.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/ui/dot_clear.gif
Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - Page updated at 09:34 AM

Study says King County has 68,000 millionaires

By Seattletimes.com staff

A London-based market-research company, TNS Global (http://text.tns-global.com/market-sectors/financial_services.htm), says King County now has 68,000 millionaires.
That places it number 10 in the country in millionaire residents. TNS defines millionaires as people with a net worth of $1 million or more, excluding their primary residences.



No. 2
Cook County, Illinois
Number of millionaire households: 171,118
Percentage of state's millionaire households: 40%
Percentage of nation's millionaire households: 2%



Local News | Study says King County has 68,000 millionaires | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003688349_webmillionaires01.html)

:hoops:

tashawn, we went to chicago a couple years ago when hinrich and those guys were rookies, and the tickets were nowhere near that high, although they were still pretty expensive for a lottery team

tashawn, we went to chicago a couple years ago when hinrich and those guys were rookies, and the tickets were nowhere near that high, although they were still pretty expensive for a lottery team

They were pretty unpopular for a few years. That is when they were playing the "through thick and thin" commercials and calling them the baby bulls.

Everyone I talk to here says that living in Chicago through the Jordan years was pretty crazy. The United Center was THE place to be.

A millionaire is not all it is cracked up to be. That's the 1913 (buying power) equivalent of $40,000. Now a millionaire in 1913? That's a rich dude.

A millionaire is not all it is cracked up to be. That's the 1913 (buying power) equivalent of $40,000. Now a millionaire in 1913? That's a rich dude.

Who would you rather be, a millionaire now, or a millinaire in 1913?

Who would you rather be, a millionaire now, or a millinaire in 1913?
It depends on how you look at it. If you were a millionaire in 1913, most likely by now you'd be dead.
:nerd2:

Bulls lost again tonight to the Clippers, without Brand and at home.

:hoops:

No way this 0-4 Bulls team should beat the Pistons...., However after they got knocked out last year by the Pistons, they may have enough drive in them to get the job done. Pistons just have to contain Gordon, Deng and the Pistons assasin Joe Smtih. The Clippers slowed little Ben (Gordon) by putting Brevin Knight on him and Big Ben was just a no show..with 6 boards and 1-6 shooting including at least 2 blown layups....what else is new????:)

It depends on how you look at it. If you were a millionaire in 1913, most likely by now you'd be dead.
:nerd2:

The present is a gift.

All you could get at that time is a first class seat in Titanic. I would rather be half millionaire now. Who would you rather be, a millionaire now, or a millinaire in 1913?

normally, this is an easy game. Bulls should be 0-5 after this game. my worries would be if the pistons take it for granted. I hate the fact that we have not changed our attitude. We still go the 4th quarter down by lot of points.
No way this 0-4 Bulls team should beat the Pistons...., However after they got knocked out last year by the Pistons, they may have enough drive in them to get the job done. Pistons just have to contain Gordon, Deng and the Pistons assasin Joe Smtih. The Clippers slowed little Ben (Gordon) by putting Brevin Knight on him and Big Ben was just a no show..with 6 boards and 1-6 shooting including at least 2 blown layups....what else is new????:)

We don't know if the Pistons will take Bulls for granted. Sure, based on the last couple of years we don't know which Pistons team will show up for the game. However, lets not make any hasty predictions. This season is young and there are some changes in the attitudes. Lets hope that "switch" technique is not in use this season. Also, just because Chicago lost four games doesn't mean that they can't go off against Pistons. Gordon can heat up and go for 30. It is not going to be an easy game no matter how Pistons play. Bulls know that they have to stop this losing streak, because it will only get tougher to get back into the race.

I don't know...I've watched three Bulls games on League Pass and they really look bad. And we are looking pretty crisp IMO. I'd be shocked if we lost this game. Now later in the season when they get their act together they might be a team to reckon with but right now I think our challenge will be not to get complacent after we are up 20 points at the half. I'm looking so forward to the game anyway. I like the Bulls and I love the Pistons. So I'm psyched.

I looked into tickets to the Bulls/Pistons games last year. My dad lives near Chicago. My God, those tickets are a fortune. I see families sitting in those seats. Little kids. That's an expensive family outing.

Who would you rather be, a millionaire now, or a millinaire in 1913?
Good question. The depression would have destroyed a lot of my wealth, but then today's US dollar is deflating rather quickly, so it's really a question of take it all at once, or bleed to death slowly. :)

I don't know...I've watched three Bulls games on League Pass and they really look bad. And we are looking pretty crisp IMO. I'd be shocked if we lost this game. Now later in the season when they get their act together they might be a team to reckon with but right now I think our challenge will be not to get complacent after we are up 20 points at the half. I'm looking so forward to the game anyway. I like the Bulls and I love the Pistons. So I'm psyched.

I looked into tickets to the Bulls/Pistons games last year. My dad lives near Chicago. My God, those tickets are a fortune. I see families sitting in those seats. Little kids. That's an expensive family outing.

I agree they have looked inconsistent so far, and even though they lost to the Clippers tonight, this was probably their best game...so hopefully they don't get over the hump on us Thursday. If you recall last season, we normally came out flat in games where we had more than 3 days off.

As far the ticket prices, if you think the bulls tickets are high, then look no further than the Laker ticket office. The Pistons play the Lakers at Staples next Friday, but I will have to sit at home to watch like most of you due to $100+ ticket prices...

Sore ankle slows Ben Wallace

Skiles ponders reduced role for player; Pistons confident they’ll face ex-teammate.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Sore ankle slows Ben Wallace (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071107/SPORTS0102/711070331/1004/SPORTS)

:hoops:

All you could get at that time is a first class seat in Titanic. I would rather be half millionaire now.

That's a good point.

Also, quality of life is much better now. You get to keep your teeth, you have a real automobile, you get to watch your favorite bball team dunk the ball on occasion. I could go on and on.

I think I'd rather be broke in the modern age than rich in the early 1900's.

Bulls are 0-4 to start the season. Their next game is this one.

I think this sort of shows what Ben Wallace's value is to a team. The only real difference between the current Bulls team and last year's team is that Ben is not at full strength. If he had been getting his 12 rebs, 8 points, 3 blcks per game, they would be at least 3-1 right now.

However, because he is obviously not himself, he is taking up space out there with his inefficiency. Everyone knows that he is willing to play through injury and not whine about it, so Skiles need to add some value and force Ben to sit and recover.

Sometimes playing through injury is selfish.

This wait between games has been excruciating. It's almost like we had 3 more pre-season games and the real season is still yet to start.

I think this sort of shows what Ben Wallace's value is to a team. The only real difference between the current Bulls team and last year's team is that Ben is not at full strength. If he had been getting his 12 rebs, 8 points, 3 blcks per game, they would be at least 3-1 right now.

However, because he is obviously not himself, he is taking up space out there with his inefficiency. Everyone knows that he is willing to play through injury and not whine about it, so Skiles need to add some value and force Ben to sit and recover.

I agree. It's early in the season and he obviously can't heal if he keep playing on an injury. If he said himself that he can't jump, then he also can't move quickly to defend in his usual way. I think Skiles shouldn't even let him dress. Let him sit on the bench looking really fine in a nice suit. Then unleash his defensive prowess when he's healthy again.

Yes Ben definelty is missed. Another angle could also be how the players feel about almost getting delt for Kobe. Not the best way to start the season with that kind of distraction.

This wait between games has been excruciating. It's almost like we had 3 more pre-season games and the real season is still yet to start.

Wondering how did you survive the long ass summer. :)

The Sports Network - National Basketball Association (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=nba/news/acn4111623.htm)



This is a rematch of the playoffs. Detroit knocked out the Bulls in six games in the 2007 Eastern Conference semifinals. Last season. the Bulls won three of four from the Pistons during the regular season. Detroit has lost two straight after winning its last 12 at Chicago.

USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores107/107312/NBA776494.htm)


Though they lost to Detroit in six games in the Eastern Conference semifinals last season, the Chicago Bulls thought they were just a step away from overtaking the Pistons as the Central Division's most dominant team.
That hasn't been the case one week into the 2007-08 season.
The unbeaten Pistons (3-0) and the winless Bulls (0-4) meet for the first time since last season's playoffs on Thursday night at the United Center.
Chicago was picked by many to represent the East in the NBA finals this season, but has gotten off to a slow start, especially on the offensive end. The Bulls are 29th in the league in both shooting percentage (37.3) and points per game (87.8).

We need to do our best to pressure their shooters. Dare Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, Joakim Noah, and Ty Thomas to beat us. I won't expect much offense out of Tayshaun because he'll be exerting too much defensively guarding Deng. On the other side, just stay balanced and hope that Noah doesn't bait Sheed into needless frustration. Noah strikes me as the Anderson Varejao type who can really screw with Sheed's head.

We need to do our best to pressure their shooters. Dare Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, Joakim Noah, and Ty Thomas to beat us. I won't expect much offense out of Tayshaun because he'll be exerting too much defensively guarding Deng. On the other side, just stay balanced and hope that Noah doesn't bait Sheed into needless frustration. Noah strikes me as the Anderson Varejao type who can really screw with Sheed's head.
Tay outplayed Deng in the playoffs and he was one of the Pistons main scorers. I wouldn't expect any different.

Tay outplayed Deng in the playoffs and he was one of the Pistons main scorers. I wouldn't expect any different.

True, but if you're expecting that Deng improves this year, which I think he will, then he would go into that level of player that Tayshaun can stop, but he cannot stop and provide his offense at the same time. See games against Kobe and Lebron.

Chat's open!

Disappointing loss tonight. The Bulls jumped out to a lead with the Pistons starters playing poorly and the bench playing disastrously, but the Pistons cut the lead in the 3rd quarter on a flurry of 3s and a huge run of points by Sheed. The Bulls dominated the boards all night long, but some strong Pistons D got them a chance late in the 4th, only to come up short when 3 makeable shots all missed in the final minute.

The bench really stunk tonight, which was a key factor as the Bulls bench came up big. Hayes was mostly invisible in 20 minutes, and JMax was so bad that he only got 11 minutes. Aside from one brief stretch in the 4th, JMax just couldn't do anything right on either end of the floor. With Rip struggling from the floor and Tay being invisible, it was too much to overcome, even with Sheed pouring in 36 points.

Brutal. It is instances like this where seeing if AJ could be more effective than JMax may have been smart to try.

We should have played off of Tyrus on D earlier in the game, rather than midway through the second quarter. We had to play like absolute crap to lose by less than five. I can live with that. Lulz at the UC chanting "Detroit sucks".

No dependable "go to guy" is starting to make this squad look bad far too often late in games.

Defense gets stops, and even rebounds (wow), and Pistons come down the floor running isolations with 2nd tier isolation players. Opposing team doesn't even have to double and consequently, they limit us to one and out every trip down the floor late in games.

Same song, same channel, one year later. I'm waiting for the young guys to get healthy and take the reins from the old guard, or a trade, or both.

IMO, this game was lost in the first quarter. That is when the Pistons lackadasical play allowed the low scoring Bulls to get off 29 points as no one could or would step up to stop Tyler Thomas. Once again, as was the case last season, a three day layoff hurts the Pistons

Sheed tried to singlehandley win this game on both ends, but he didn't get any real help from Tay or Dyess. Thomas got free for far to many dunks and put backs as the bulls won the battle of the paint 42-26. Most of our points in the paint came from Sheed in the 3rd qtr and Sheed also dropped in three treys in that qtr. ...He probably had his best game as a Piston with 36 points. (if he had had 40 we would have won:ohwell:

The Bulls outhustled the Pistons who had 7 TO's in the first quarter. :mad: The bench contributed 8 TO's to go with their inept play and picked a perfect time for a no-show on the first night of a back to back. The result was that the starters averaged 36 minutes. Maxiel probably should have played more, but even he could not keep up with Thomas. Big ben grabbed nine boards, but was a non factor down the stretch.

Chauncey hit 2 threes, but did not have his best game either.. The big question is what happen to Tay since Rip came back??? He was all world while Rip was on paternity leave and now that he is back, he disappears?? Maybe we should have rip or tay coming off the bench? One thing learned from this loss is you can't wait until the 4th qtr to turn it on.

Tougher game tomorrow night vs Clips as Kamen has been a monster in the middle. If Mobley is still hurt,(groin) we may get a break there.

Close game for the most part. For sure we could have used some free throws being made. Sheed had a couple attempts posting up Thomas in the end and did not come thru - but at least he was trying to go inside.
One goat tonight was Hayes, or actually, the coach who would try guarding Deng with Hayes. Very bad choice. Hayes scored a bit, but not nearly enough to offset what he was giving up to Deng.


Maxiell got into early foul trouble and played very little in the first half. Followed by not playing all that long in the 2nd half even though he was getting into the game a bit. I wonder what excuse Flip Saunders is going to use this time for not going with the hot player, choosing to play Dyess in crunch time. Yeah, and if Maxiell could not play his minutes, why is that not a good time to give Amir a few minutes? Mohammed instead? Mohammed did make one jumper. Wow, like that helped much.
Murray did score 6 points. And he turned the ball over a lot. Afflalo got his token 2 minutes at the end of the 3rd quarter, made an alert pass to trigger a fast break score. I think Flip Saunders does that just so he can honestly say he is playing Afflalo. A bit of a joke on Dumars, in my opinion.


For the most part, we used an 8 man rotation, with Hayes, Murray, and, wait - make that a 7 man rotation. Mohammed, Maxiell, Afflalo each played a bit. What a contrast as Chicago was playing Noah extensively and the young Mr. Thomas started. Man, does Chicago look young and energetic compared to us. We were killed on the boards. Dyess was worthless as an inside defender. Dyess made a few jumpers or he would truly have been bad for this game. Jumpers by the way that did give us points, but as usual had zero chance of drawing any fouls, or helping to establish an inside game. Back to Chicago. Joe Smith played big and productive minutes off the bench for them, as did Nocioni, Duhon, and Noah. Any guesses which team was fresher late in the 4th quarter?


How bad can a bench be? We learned the depths of how low Flip Saunders will go to put a pointless unit on the floor. At one point early 2nd quarter we had Flip Murray in the backcourt, who can't play D worth a darn, Hayes and Dyess, neither of whom can move laterally, as our forwards, and the slowfooted Mohammed at center. I guess Prince was the 5th guy in the unit. Mind you, Maxiell was sitting with foul trouble so Flip Saunders will think he has a ready excuse. But he does not. Basing a bench on slowness is pathetic. We need youth and enthusiasm from our bench. Where did Flip misplace it? Hey, Flip, look a bit harder at the end of the bench. Afflalo and Amir can play the game.

The big question is what happen to Tay since Rip cam back??? He was all world while Rip was on paternity leave and now that he is back, he disappears?? Maybe we should have rip or coming off the bench?

No lie. Someone had a thread about Rip maybe coming off the bench a while ago. Rip was my favorite player for the first few years of my Piston fandom, then I switched to Big Ben and now Sheed. Doesn't it seem like the game is more static with Rip back out there? I know we'd miss his scoring but couldn't he be like Gordon for the Bulls, or Jason Terry for the Mavs.He could come out and be that "instant offense" guy. I like Tay as a higher option for offense on our team now.

Mostly I just missed seeing Tay be an integral part of the offense. Sheed was great to watch tonight. Another thing that mystified me was our first half defense. How did the Bulls get all those paint points in the first half? They weren't just jumpshots, contrary to TNT's Kenny's opinion that the only thing Chicago can do is perimeter jumpshooting. The Bulls got a lot of second chance points hustle points and passing into the paint points. Maybe it's that Sheed and Tay were the only ones playing defense until the last quarter. I dunno. Maybe if the defensive effort was more consistent, we wouldn't be in the position of desperate desperado defense in the fourth. It's like they start playing LB defense in the last quarter of any game where they are up against the wall and the rest of the time it's FlipBall.

That said, the Pistons have been playing really well. The Bench sure had a bad night. Hopefully "adjustments" will be made by the next game. LOL.

We are not getting much from Dyss. That is a big problem as Sheed is left alone to do it all. Maxiel and maybe Amir need to be used. We win this game with Maxiel playing over Dyss.

If the rookies fail us, we trade for a big. We are big short it seems and this is a problem that will not go away.

The defense was horrible. Yes, some of it was regular season stuff but it was too easy. Chicago did what they wanted for most of the game. The McClosky article is a sham about us holding them to a basket in the last 4 minutes. The Bulls are a dead team. The hype of last year has worn off and that team is going nowhere in my opinion.

Our run will be over unless we get some youth in the lineup. We need to use Tay more also. His improvement or not will determine where we land.

Thanks for the great posts folks.

Disappointing game for me. The Pistons seem to have regressed from the first two games.

No dependable "go to guy" is starting to make this squad look bad far too often late in games.

Defense gets stops, and even rebounds (wow), and Pistons come down the floor running isolations with 2nd tier isolation players. Opposing team doesn't even have to double and consequently, they limit us to one and out every trip down the floor late in games.

Same song, same channel, one year later. I'm waiting for the young guys to get healthy and take the reins from the old guard, or a trade, or both.

I don't think it's a lack of a go to guy so much as it is a lack of ball movement. All we run any more are ISOs after ISOs. Flip Saunders makes me miss Larry Brown's offense.

Hayes confirmed my fears about his defense against quality NBA players. Afllalo should'e played more,and Amir sat AGAIN. We needed speed and athleticism. Our coach is stupid.

Also, we need to run the offense through Tay NOT Rip.

Hayes needs to play in spots because he is limited in defense and rebounding. I don't fault Flip for searching for those spots.

But by the second quarter, it was obvious that we needed some defensive adjustments. This coach just can't seem to make defensive adjustments. Yes, it is a regular season game but you still do little things to give yourself a chance to pull it out.

Hayes needs to play in spots because he is limited in defense and rebounding. I don't fault Flip for searching for those spots.

But by the second quarter, it was obvious that we needed some defensive adjustments. This coach just can't seem to make defensive adjustments. Yes, it is a regular season game but you still do little things to give yourself a chance to pull it out.

^
That's the most frustrating part b/c these are all winnable games save a few adjustments that Flip doesn't seem to be able to make.

Anyone think we post up a bit too much? I mean, Sheed, Tay, Chauncey, Rip, Hayes, Dice, Max, Nazr. Pretty much everyone was getting post-ups tonight. And that's good to a point, but most of these lead to contested turnaround 15-foot fadeaways. Rip in particular. His personal vendetta with Hinrich usually ends up with him forcing up these bad shots in iso situations.

It's fine when Sheed, Max, or Tayshaun are posting consistently, because that is their game, and they get high percentage shots. But at a certain point it just slows the offense down too much. You end up with absolutely ZERO movement, thus the defense is always in position, and the offensive rebounding opportunities are slim-to-none (See tonight)

We need a lot more drive and dish, and a lot less standing around watching guys shooting turnaround 15-footers.

The other thing that gets me is Dice allowing layups/dunks when he's got plenty of fouls to give, and plenty of bodies behind him to pick up the slack if he does get into foul trouble. He's conceeding layups to Ben Wallace, and ends up with only 2 fouls in nearly 40 minutes. Tyrus Thomas could have been knocked on his ass a time or two as well.

Tough loss. Starters have been playing more mins than last season. Nothing has changed except for the addition of Hayes so far.

...we need to run the offense through Tay NOT Rip.Couldn't agree more. Defenses have adjusted to Rip coming off curls but nobody can stop Tayshaun, who creates and scores from anywhere on the floor. Its time to give Prince his moment to shine (memo to Billups). Of course its only 4 games so far, but Detroit doesn't look as strong or focused as Boston. Has anyone seen the Celtics play lately? They are uptempo and fun to watch...a Detroit-Boston playoff rivalry would be sweet.

. Of course its only 4 games so far, but Detroit doesn't look as strong or focused as Boston. Has anyone seen the Celtics play lately? They are uptempo and fun to watch...a Detroit-Boston playoff rivalry would be sweet.

Agree with you here *, those guys have been playing together for less than 5 weeks and they are already gelling and we have starters who have played together for 5 years and still look out of sync as they could even not put away a subpar team in crunch time. Three winless teams tried to get their first victory tonight..how come the Bulls were the only team to breakthrough??

Also we did have that the Celtic-Piston rivalry from 86-88, before it turned into a Bulls-Piston rivalry.

Forwards with hoops always seem to have great game versus the Pistons- it's like our frontcourt simply isn't able to handle explosive young PF's

Are we back to win at all costs scenario? Yes, the bench stunk it up, but the only way they get better if they play through the problems. I thought that Flip was ready to sacrifice wins to play the reserves? Afflalo with only a couple of minutes, Amir didn't make it on the court at all. I am not upset at a loss as much as what's transpired with minutes and bench not getting enough playing time to develop any cohesiveness.

Anyone think we post up a bit too much? I mean, Sheed, Tay, Chauncey, Rip, Hayes, Dice, Max, Nazr. Pretty much everyone was getting post-ups tonight. And that's good to a point, but most of these lead to contested turnaround 15-foot fadeaways. Rip in particular. His personal vendetta with Hinrich usually ends up with him forcing up these bad shots in iso situations.

It's fine when Sheed, Max, or Tayshaun are posting consistently, because that is their game, and they get high percentage shots. But at a certain point it just slows the offense down too much. You end up with absolutely ZERO movement, thus the defense is always in position, and the offensive rebounding opportunities are slim-to-none (See tonight)

We need a lot more drive and dish, and a lot less standing around watching guys shooting turnaround 15-footers.

The other thing that gets me is Dice allowing layups/dunks when he's got plenty of fouls to give, and plenty of bodies behind him to pick up the slack if he does get into foul trouble. He's conceeding layups to Ben Wallace, and ends up with only 2 fouls in nearly 40 minutes. Tyrus Thomas could have been knocked on his ass a time or two as well.

Great post FP22, the Pistons are consistently inconsistent....what I mean is they spent most of the first half taking jumpers & finishing with only 8 points in the paint by halftime. They continued the jumper assault in the third by expanding out beyond the three point line where they canned 4 of the their 3 pointers. In the 4th quarter as you indicated everybody wanted to post up and by the time they got to crunch time, it appeared that nobody wanted or could get off a short jumper. No imagination on the offense that I could see down the stretch. One acrobatic shot by the Rip is all we got the last 3 minutes as we could not overcome the futility of the Bulls.

I don't think I have cooled down yet.

This loss is probably the toughest regular season loss that I can remember.

This game never should have been lost for a lot of reasons. Its one thing to lose the game which is bad enough, but for these idiots in the general sports media to plaster the headlines with the Chicago win is just too much especially when we should have won this game for a lot of reasons

As everyone knows I have been a lot easier on Flip than the majority on this board, for a number of reasons. But no more after tonight.

Saunders blew this game. He cost us this game. There is no two ways about it.

We kept going to Hamilton because Gordon supposedly is a lousy defender. Well he may in fact be, but we spent the whole friggen night shooting way too many jump shots.

We have played one good game out of four. We have been lucky to have three wins right now.

Murray and Nazr have to go.

But in the end what will make or break Saunders will be AJ.

AJ has waited now into his third year to get on the court during meaningful minutes and Saunders refuses to play him. 95%. Guys play when they are a lot less than 95%.

Then to get beat by a guy named Thomas. That is just too much. Thomas killed us in the first half with his athleticism. Yes Saunders made some adjustments in the second half but they still wiped our faces in the mud of offensive rebounding. It was a frigging disaster and all the time our best rebounder who is healthy sits on the bench.

After tonight I am convinced it will be Saunders and AJ either staying or going.

AJ can save Saunders job if Saunders doesn't delay much longer and starts playing him. But if Saunders messes AJ's head up by not playing him and AJ wants out, I have a feeling that it will be Saunders who will get the boot. Dumars is not going to let this abuse by Saunders continue.

My guess is that AJ will get some minutes tomorrow because the Clippers game is televised back to L.A. But I don't expect him to get more than 5 at the most.

On the road trip other than in the L.A. game I don't expect he will get more than 15 minutes total in the other 4 road games on the trip. Against the Lakers Flip will play him because the game is in L.A. I think AJ will get some decent burn in that game. After that it will probably revert back to how it has been for the last 2 years plus, unless Dumars gives Saunders an ultimatum regarding playing AJ.

This post does not make me feel any better.

:hoops:

This may not have been Rip's best game, bit his D was awesome. He totally shut down Tay. I don't think the L has cuaght up to him coming off of screens. I think they don't run him off of them anymore.

Speaking of Tay (aka The Leader 1a), he made up for his offensive sleepwalk with 5 monster boards. Leader # 1, CB the powerful PG, hauled in 3.

All the starters played more than 35 minutes. Losses wouldn't bother me if I thought this group would be fresh going into the playoffs. In the big picture a November 8th win over CHI is pretty insignifigant. I guess I just need to wait for the rookie who has never played his slated position to solve the minutes problem.

The problem for us tonight was that this was a playoff style game. The Bulls were playing really hard. They were rebounding like their lives depended on it, and they were very active defensively.

They had a lot more movement on offense and it created offensive rebounding opportunities. We were exploiting so called mismatches, but weren't getting anything easy at all.

And Joe Smith really put some hurt on us for a stretch there when we needed them to miss.


Good wake up call to Flip that we have long-term problems to address.


I would have liked to see Maxiell finish the game instead of Dyess. JMax was doing some damage toward the end.

As I indicated in the chat room during the game, Amir=Darko until we actually see him play in the first half and play for more than 8 mins. I know he may still have a bum ankle, but so did Rip and he's playing (out of control) as if he was never hurt.

Flip sr is digging his grave fast. I know a GM is not going to say anything in the middle of a game, but I hope Joe was sitting next to Flip on Roundball 1 ? giving him a piece of his mind tonight.

If Thomas can start as a second year man and be all over the floor flaunting his athleticism , then we should be able to counter with at least 10-15 mins of both AJ and J-Max. Agree buddha...this should have been an easy win for the Pistons who couldn't even take advantage of winded Bulls team who themselves couldn't score a bucket for over 4 minutes in crunch time....:yellowprison:

I told Mahorn on Sirius that I was worried about losing this one. Take just 4 or 5 Offensive Rebounds away from them and it's a win.

so many good, insightful posts about the game last night. so much more creative thinking among the fans here than we are seeing from the coaching staff or players. so kudos to you all. i think most of what i have to say just recapitulates others' points and i'll probably overstate things and get some things wrong.

i'm now convinced that rip should come off the bench. i think the four starters have played together for so long that they are in a rut and flip s doesn't have the guts to shake anything up. tay is a far more creative and versatile and so dangerous scoring threat than rip and because of that everything opens up for others when tay is the scoring option.

major props to sheed for taking his game inside. he showed last night what a monstrous talent he is. sure he missed a couple of those post-ups at the end, but we wouldn't have even been close without his beastly game last night. and if there is a money play for the pistons right now it is sheed on the block. tay, sheed, and chauncey -- in that order. rip come off the bench and get starters minutes but give him a different function.

dyess, don't get me started. jmax or aj should be starting there and then, fine give dyess and whichever of jmax and aj aren't starting the back up minutes. its infuriating to watch dudes like thomas bouncing around like pogo sticks while we watch put backs, back doors, and pick and roll cut dunks and lay ups.


if boston looks so good it's partly because they haven't been playing together so long maybe. there's a zen saying: in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's there are few. it's a caution against the narrow thinking that can come from experience. kg, allen and pierce: everything is new, everythign is possible, they are really gorgeous to watch because it is all inventive. the pistons: everything is predictable right now. but it doesn't have to be. they have four major offensive threats, they just need to open their minds and start exploring other ways to exploit those threats; other functions for their guys (e.g. tay as a first option, sheed, like last night, mixing up the post-ups with the spot-ups; rip coming off the bench maybe for some instant offense).

kinda glad i didn't watch much of the game, although i taped it and will watch it later. sounds like everyone pretty much covered it though. leave it to the pistons to give the bulls life and confidence, rather than go into their building and make them 0-5 on the year.

against a guy like thomas i think it's clear that AJ could help more than JMax in fighting for boards and going athlete vs. athlete. hopefully he gets burn tomorrow night against the extremely slow clippers frontcourt, especially with sheed playing so many minutes last night.

No lie. Someone had a thread about Rip maybe coming off the bench a while ago. Rip was my favorite player for the first few years of my Piston fandom, then I switched to Big Ben and now Sheed. Doesn't it seem like the game is more static with Rip back out there? I know we'd miss his scoring but couldn't he be like Gordon for the Bulls, or Jason Terry for the Mavs.He could come out and be that "instant offense" guy. I like Tay as a higher option for offense on our team now.

Mostly I just missed seeing Tay be an integral part of the offense. Sheed was great to watch tonight. Another thing that mystified me was our first half defense. How did the Bulls get all those paint points in the first half? They weren't just jumpshots, contrary to TNT's Kenny's opinion that the only thing Chicago can do is perimeter jumpshooting. The Bulls got a lot of second chance points hustle points and passing into the paint points.

We don't need to change the starters or Rip comin off the bench. Have not read the 'Rotations' thread yet but maybe we should try subbing either CBill or Rip after 6 minutes of the 1st quarter. Think we should try changing the rotations pattern first then makin changes to the starting line up. 2 of our starters should be playing with the 2nd unit. Until Hot Rod plays, our PG should be CBill and Tay at all times. I don't see any harm in trying the substitution pattern before makin any drastic changes to the starting line up.

Agreed with you on the Mavs makin JT comin off the bench. This guy sure is lightning them up recently. 20+ points average with top 10 in FG% and 3FG%. Maybe Rip could shoot better percentages if he can plays with the 2nd unit more. Doesn't mean that Rip should come off the bench but he could sub out much earlier in the 1st quarter than playing the entire 1st quarter.

Well, once again, it's down to our 'Genius' coach to do all the necessary adjustments.

ESPN - Daily Dime: The Bulls get on the board - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071109&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1)


By David Thorpe
Scouts Inc.
CHICAGO -- Here's what I liked (and disliked) about the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) after watching their game with Chicago ...


LIKED: They have so many offensive weapons, no less than six guys who can post, and they all look for those opportunites. Thursday, they went after Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3820) right away, getting two quick fouls on him.

This team really impressed me as more cohesive. Seemed more focused, recognizing to a man that they could be special. Love their bench. I think Rodney Stuckey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=4293)'s going to be a rotation player when healthy. Amir Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3982)'s going to help -- only real athlete right now on the front line is Jason Maxiell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3952). Next time Maxiell could play more on Tyrus Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=4132). When I look at this roster, it's as deep as you'll find in the league.


DISLIKED: For them to be very good, they just have to roll out of bed and show up. For them to be special, Rasheed Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3006) is the the X-factor, which is something I couldn't trust.

It would be great if he stays on his best behavior. The Pistons could beat the Spurs, Suns, Mavs if he's right. And I'm not saying it won't happen.

Maybe other players and the organization have convinced him to change his ways. When he missed two shots late, he didn't blame anyone, or look at the referees. That's a good sign.

He's better when he doesn't project his feelings of frustration on the people around him -- just tell it to the headband.

so many good, insightful posts about the game last night. so much more creative thinking among the fans here than we are seeing from the coaching staff or players. so kudos to you all. i think most of what i have to say just recapitulates others' points and i'll probably overstate things and get some things wrong.

i'm now convinced that rip should come off the bench. i think the four starters have played together for so long that they are in a rut and flip s doesn't have the guts to shake anything up. tay is a far more creative and versatile and so dangerous scoring threat than rip and because of that everything opens up for others when tay is the scoring option.

major props to sheed for taking his game inside. he showed last night what a monstrous talent he is. sure he missed a couple of those post-ups at the end, but we wouldn't have even been close without his beastly game last night. and if there is a money play for the pistons right now it is sheed on the block. tay, sheed, and chauncey -- in that order. rip come off the bench and get starters minutes but give him a different function.

dyess, don't get me started. jmax or aj should be starting there and then, fine give dyess and whichever of jmax and aj aren't starting the back up minutes. its infuriating to watch dudes like thomas bouncing around like pogo sticks while we watch put backs, back doors, and pick and roll cut dunks and lay ups.


if boston looks so good it's partly because they haven't been playing together so long maybe. there's a zen saying: in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's there are few. it's a caution against the narrow thinking that can come from experience. kg, allen and pierce: everything is new, everythign is possible, they are really gorgeous to watch because it is all inventive. the pistons: everything is predictable right now. but it doesn't have to be. they have four major offensive threats, they just need to open their minds and start exploring other ways to exploit those threats; other functions for their guys (e.g. tay as a first option, sheed, like last night, mixing up the post-ups with the spot-ups; rip coming off the bench maybe for some instant offense).


Good summary insight to all previous posts professor. As I posted earlier, Rip to the bench as the six man would make the most since here, but Joe will have to take that decision out of Flips hands and make the call. Anybody got his e-mail adress so we can send him a message via his Blackberry? Nothing will change lineup wise until the Pistons come back from the west coast trip. If we are 3 and 7 then, well the most obvious change should be Flip Sr being benched permanently:nod:

Flip Murray is great against garbage teams and not so good in playoff type games.

So, just play him against easy opponents to steal wins without taxing Chauncey as much.

If a deal comes along, great. But no need to give him away.

And again, if Billups gets injured and has to miss a month or more in the regular season, Murray will be a huge asset. Otherwise we'd be looking at a rookie starter with Hunter as the primary backup.


I'm still a little stressed out over that game. I felt like we were terrorized on the boards and loose balls.

However, with Ben Wallace + Tyrus Thomas + Joakim Noah, that should be the Bulls' strength.

What should not have happened was all the scoring in the paint by them.

Everyone, just get off Flip's behind. He did all he could, it wasn't his fault.

Flip:


"We had eight turnovers off our bench. That's way, way too many. Let's face the fact, we have our 11 or 12, we win."


CHICAGO 97, DETROIT 93: SHORTCHANGED: Loss spoils 'Sheed's 36-point night, tops as a Piston (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071109/SPORTS03/711090439/1051/SPORTS02)

(not blaming Flip) but it's not like those were unforced turnovers. The Bulls were very reachy and pokey. Our bench looked like they were in shock at the aggressiveness.

If you get a chance, watch the replay of the last shot that Rip took. Chris Duhon boxes Tay out and completely dominates him. Tay gets pushed around like a girl.

Anyone think we post up a bit too much?
No. There must be movement off of the player posting up. All we do is spot up and space.

This may not have been Rip's best game, bit his D was awesome. He totally shut down Tay. I don't think the L has cuaght up to him coming off of screens. I think they don't run him off of them anymore.
They don't run Curls for him anymore. Rip is strictly an ISO and mid-range shooter now.

In fact, I'm very surprised in the lack of option picks and screening that is occurring in this offense. After the first two games, it has gone back to being a very stagnant offense.

that had to be one of the most frustrating Pistons games I can remember in quite a while. And that is saying something.

The bulls were begging to lose that game...

This may not have been Rip's best game, bit his D was awesome. He totally shut down Tay.

My pick for post of the day.


... but maybe we should try subbing either CBill or Rip after 6 minutes of the 1st quarter.

I agree. Watch San Antonio and see how early in the first and third the starters begin to come out of the game. If you bring them out early, you have options. Flip by and large goes with them most of the first and that seriously limits what he can do later in the game. One or two guys need to come out before the eight minute mark.


After the first two games, it has gone back to being a very stagnant offense.

It's hard to understand how this happens. Think how many times Tay came off that little curl in the lane and walked right to the hoop against Miami. Yeah, fine - it won't work against everyone, and teams do figure stuff out from film, but at least try it once in a while. But Rip comes back and suddenly they don't push the ball, don't move on offense. I don't get it.

But Rip comes back and suddenly they don't push the ball, don't move on offense. I don't get it.

The Bulls defense had a lot to do with our stagnicity.

Same with the Cavs defense in the playoffs last year.

The Bulls defense had a lot to do with our stagnicity.

Same with the Cavs defense in the playoffs last year.

I disagree. I think it's a combination of Tayshaun not being aggressive enough to be effective and the combination of Rip/Chauncey/Saunders being too stubborn/prideful/whatever to realize that the offense needs to be run through #22 and at times #36 and then and only then should #32 pick up what they lay down.

And oh yea....


...stagnicity???????? :)

5 fga by Prince is not a good stat.

Including times when he got fouled, Sheed put up 30 shots.

He only shot 50%, so it was basically a typical Kobe night for Sheed.