At LA Lakers November 16th, 10:30 PM

TV - ESPN, FSDHD

Kobe is still in LA and well, he is still Kobe. He is avg 28.3 ppg at the time of this post, good for 2nd in the league behind T-Mac. The Lakers have impressive wins thus far - against the Jazz and Suns.

This will be an interesting game.

The Lakers are now at full strength for the first time in ages.

Tuesday night the Spurs defense shut them down to open up what was a close game. This is not the first time that the Spurs have done this to another team. LOL. Bowen also went bezerk on three point goals and made 6 of 6 against them.

The Lakers looked better tonight but the Rockets lost T-Mc at half time due to a sprained elbow on a freakish injury so Bonzi played most of the second half in his place. A definite fall off for Houston.

The Lakers have moved Odom to the #3 so he will match up with Tay. Odom is long like Tay but bigger. Tay will definitely have his hands full.

If Dyess is still out Maxey will start against Turiaf which really should be interesting. Two really high energy guys. Turiaf will bang with Maxey.

Brown is back starting at center and he is a pretty good defender when his head is in the game, which you never know in advance if it will be or not. I would look for Sheed to try and draw him away from the basket.

Fisher has helped to stabilize the Laker back court.

Kobe is Kobe, but keep a close eye on his defense, it could hurt us.

The Lakers have a real good bench. Better than ours. Rodmanovich is not injured this year and can put up threes in bunches again like he did before he was was injured last year. He played with an injured hand last year and for the most part was not very effective to say the least. His hand is better and he is a definite three point threat.

Bynum is solid in the center and tough under the boards. I don't think, other than maybe AJ we have anyone coming off the bench that can keep Bynum off the glass. Though I expect Saunders to put Nazr in to match up some of the time with Bynum. Bynum plays a lot more minutes than Nazr so it will only be some of the time. I don't think that Nazr can do much with Bynum but hopefully I will be wrong. I don't expect Saunders to put AJ in ahead of Nazr to match up with Bynum because of Bynums weight, which is probably at least 30 pounds more than AJ. Hopefully I will be wrong on this. I would love to see Bynum and AJ go at it.

Farmer's game has really improved in his second year. He is scoring close to double figures and tonight had 9 rebounds.

Walton has been downgraded to the second unit and his still trying to find his footing as a sub, but he is still a well rounded player who does a lot of things well.

Mo E. is their other guy in the second unit and we know what his game entails.

I think it will be a tough game Friday against the Lakers. This is not the same team that limped with injuries out of April and into May last year. They are healthy and lot better.

They are however, very turnover prone. So if we can force them into turnovers and capitalize on that along with keeping them off their offensive glass, we have a shot at winning.

:hoops:

Here's a thought. We often have that debate about Phil Jackson being a great coach for winning so many championships vs. just being lucky to have superstar teams at the time. Aren't the Pistons right now validating the argument that Phil is in fact a superb coach? We have a team that I think all of us feel is capable of winning championships (and should have been winning the last few years), but falls short because they don't have a great coach. Makes me respect a coach like Phil a little more.

It seems like your conclusion should be that you respect Saunders less.

It's funny right before we're playing all these Kobe to DET rumoured trade stuff come out.

Big game for Tay (hopefully!). Put him in LA and he plays well.

As for who wins i don't know. Kobe could go off. Hell, Bynum could go off.

Crossing my fingers Amir/Afflalo plays.

Turiaf may miss this game too.

Turiaf's ankle injury leaves a hole in lineup (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep16nov16,1,3888812.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers)

Sheed should have a monster game again if Turiaf is out.

Turiaf may miss this game too.

Turiaf's ankle injury leaves a hole in lineup (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep16nov16,1,3888812.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers)

Sheed should have a monster game again if Turiaf is out.


Both teams have injury issues, so it is a toss-up of who will play, who will step up and who will win.

You never really know what Laker team will show up..

Ticket prices to high for me, I will have to wait for when they come back to play the Clippers.

Dre, do ticket prices for Lakers vs. Clippers games vary depending on who the "home team" is? Of course, I'm guessing that the Clippers' generally lower prices go up to meet the higher demand whenever they play the Lakers "at home."

Dre, do ticket prices for Lakers vs. Clippers games vary depending on who the "home team" is? Of course, I'm guessing that the Clippers' generally lower prices go up to meet the higher demand whenever they play the Lakers "at home."

Except maybe when they play the Lakers the Clippers almost always have single game walk up tickets available. I believe that the price of a walk up single game ticket for a certain seat at Staples during a Clippers game remains the same regardless of whom they are playing.

The parking lot price and other second or third market prices for a certain seat will vary based upon supply and demand.

:hoops:

interesting game to watch. Looking forward Tay shoting down Cobe. Is CB playing tonight?

Looking forward Tay defending Cobe. Is CB playing?

Some so-called experts believed the aging Detroit Pistons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det/;_ylt=AvaUU39FHaLqkYh97m9YImuPvLYF) would surrender their Central Division supremacy to younger, up-and-coming teams this season.

The Pistons are proving them wrong.

Detroit looks to make it three wins in four games on its current West Coast road trip in a matchup with the Los Angeles Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/lal/;_ylt=Ajea5y.ivPzZhXK6m35DpeKPvLYF) on Friday night.

While both the Cleveland Cavaliers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cle/;_ylt=AphU40k8.a7_aWAU0sAKg2aPvLYF), who beat the Pistons in last season's Eastern Conference finals, and the Chicago Bulls (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/chi/;_ylt=AojzHtL5I_O4AvuRliIkj92PvLYF) have struggled to sub-.500 records, Detroit (6-2) is playing like it's headed for a fourth straight Central Division title and sixth in seven years.

This is from the Yahoo game preview. More on link

NBA - Detroit Pistons/Los Angeles Lakers Preview Friday November 16, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/preview;_ylt=ApU.d5y.qNnGCxyGtGaBYr68vLYF?gid=2007 111613&prov=ap)

:hoops:

Finally this game is here. The teams can get this one out of the way and then the Lakers and Pistons can complete their trade.

Finally this game is here. The teams can get this one out of the way and then the Lakers and Pistons can complete their trade.
Yeah, can we get Jackson for Flip, please? We'd give Lakers a 1st round pick to go with that and both second rounders we got for Delfino.

interesting game to watch. Looking forward Tay shoting down Cobe. Is CB playing tonight?
I don't believe CB is playing tonight.

Thankfully, we only make 2 western trips each season. These late games are tough to stay up for!

I don't believe CB is playing tonight.

Thankfully, we only make 2 western trips each season. These late games are tough to stay up for!

Tell me about it.

I have to take a nap just to catch the games, that`s if I wake up from the nap!!!!

Tell me about it.

I have to take a nap just to catch the games, that`s if I wake up from the nap!!!!

Old timers! :cool:

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

This game is "fun to watch"(that's for THE LOW!) LOL.

I love seeing Samb out there. I like watching this different chemistry. Everytime Flip actually gives the bench significant minutes, it makes for a more interesting game and makes me a believer that we have a really good team.

Note: WTH with Chauncey watching the game from the locker room because he doesn't have a sport jacket or suit with him?What? You're a friggin' millionaire that just signed a new gazillionaire deal and you don't take a suit on a road trip? And no one else had a jacket they could loan him? No one? I mean that is just SO CHAUNCEY! You weren't planning on getting injured so you didn't take a sportcoat? This guy is a pretty dim bulb I'll tell you. Wait? How about sending someone to the sportjacket store and buy you one in your size with all that money you've got? Unreal.

Great game though. I hope we get to see lots more of our bench. How about that shotblocking effort!!! Yeah. GO PISTONS!

They interviewed Billups on ESPN and he said that he expected to play but called it at the last minute so he did not bring a jacket with him. But yes you are right, he could have had one sent in. Maybe he will?

They interviewed Billups on ESPN and he said that he expected to play but called it at the last minute so he did not bring a jacket with him. But yes you are right, he could have had one sent in. Maybe he will?
I'm sure that all of the starters expected to play when they left Detroit, but that's just stupid to not pack a single jacket for an extended road trip.

billups has probably gone hundreds of road trips with no sport jacket and it hasn't been a problem...doesnt make him dim for not having one now. he expected to play anyways

billups has probably gone hundreds of road trips with no sport jacket and it hasn't been a problem...doesnt make him dim for not having one now. he expected to play anyways
I disagree. It's an extremely minor issue, but I still think he was wrong for not packing a jacket.

Of COURSE he expected to play. He's the most important player on this team. But if you aren't allowed to sit on the bench without a jacket, you should pack a freaking jacket on all road trips. Heck, the team should have a "one size fits all" suit that they bring with them on all road trips.

CB coulda went to K-mart to pick up a jacket

Disappointing finish to what had been an encouraging game, with Amir and Samb leading an energetic charge off the bench to build up a 6 point lead after 3 quarters. But the starters fell apart with a flurry of turnovers, 4 in a row that allowed the Lakers to take the lead even with Kobe on the bench. Once he came back in, they couldn't miss--off balance 3s, runners in the lane off lucky bounces from the officials, everything was falling for them. It was blowout city from that point on. The importance of CB's ball handling (and hopefully Stuckey, once he gets healthy) became painfully apparent during that fourth quarter collapse.

Still, there were some definite positives from this game, as the three young big guys--JMax, Amir, and Samb--all had a major impact. They combined for 7 blocks and 15 boards, 7 boards and 4 blocks from Amir alone. JMax even hit his FTs, 7-8. Amir and Samb were monsters in the lane on D, challenging or affecting almost every single shot. Let's sure hope we see more of them, their energy is amazing.

They interviewed Billups on ESPN and he said that he expected to play but called it at the last minute so he did not bring a jacket with him. But yes you are right, he could have had one sent in. Maybe he will?

He could have worn Chiek Sambs jacket...may have had long sleeves, but he could have still sat on the bench or near Jack Nicholson instead of sitting the locker room listening to Ric Buchlers lies and rumors.:)

I'm sure that all of the starters expected to play when they left Detroit, but that's just stupid to not pack a single jacket for an extended road trip.


I could see sheed not having a jacket, but billups is a snazzy dresser; that is very strange for a long road trip

Disappointing finish to what had been an encouraging game, with Amir and Samb leading an energetic charge off the bench to build up a 6 point lead after 3 quarters. But the starters fell apart with a flurry of turnovers, 4 in a row that allowed the Lakers to take the lead even with Kobe on the bench. Once he came back in, they couldn't miss--off balance 3s, runners in the lane off lucky bounces from the officials, everything was falling for them. It was blowout city from that point on. The importance of CB's ball handling (and hopefully Stuckey, once he gets healthy) became painfully apparent during that fourth quarter collapse.

Still, there were some definite positives from this game, as the three young big guys--JMax, Amir, and Samb--all had a major impact. They combined for 7 blocks and 15 boards, 7 boards and 4 blocks from Amir alone. JMax even hit his FTs, 7-8. Amir and Samb were monsters in the lane on D, challenging or affecting almost every single shot. Let's sure hope we see more of them, their energy is amazing.

Maxey must have had a minus 20 tonight. I don't know if it was worse than the GS game, but he is not cutting it as a starter.

AJ was probably another +8 tonight.

:hoops:

Same old . . .

Amir benched why only Flip knows.

General stupidity from our coach.

General stupidity from Flip Murray.

The starters look alot worse than last year. Can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but it falls ALOT on Rip's suckage. And Tay being schizophrenic due to Rip sucking and ballhogging. Maybe this is a case of him trying really hard to make the Allstar team and then he'll calm down. If so, still a retarded thing to do.

The lakers shot 76% in the 4th and scored 41 points!!

Maxey must have had a minus 20 tonight. I don't know if it was worse than the GS game, but he is not cutting it as a starter.

AJ was probably another +8 tonight.

:hoops:

Max is not a starter, but I am encouraged by the play of the young guns, just hope flip will continue playing amir and please run some type of offensive plays for amir. I think we outrebounded the lakers....

Same old . . .

Amir benched why only Flip knows.


My guess is that he had already played 18 minutes so Flip took him out because AJ was out of gas.

It would seem to me that the reason that AJ did not go back in is because they iced his ankle when he came out. His ankle is still not 100% and his achilles tightens when AJ cools down after running.

There is just too much risk to his ankle once it had cooled down if he would be sent back in. That is my educated guess. Why risk re-injuring his ankle?

He is coming along nicely. Once Hot Rod comes back Murray's minutes will go down to what they should be which is minimal.

It could also be that Flip wanted to use the starters to finish the game, which I can understand if that was it, but I don't agree.

:hoops:

Youth was served on the defensive end with Brahma, Amir and Chicksaw, with the seven blocks, 15 boards and a number of hampered/alterned shots for laker misses, but we didn't get anything from the offense. Why, because Flip & Rip & Hunter could not play under control and Flip took just to many shots...6-18 and 0-4 beyond the three. MAx Amir and Chiek were a combined 2-4 shooting??? Did they just refuse to get open or did Flip just ignore them on the floor??

Flip, Rip and Hunter had 12 turnovers between them and the game turned when Jordan Farmar had 3 of his 4 steals in the 4th qtr and picked flip's pocket on two consecutive plays. The Lakers 41 points in the 4th were keyed by those steals and then Kobe and the Laker 3 ball came alive in the last 5 mins to put the game away.

Oh well, at least we know that Samb can play in the middle. I say both he and AJ come in before Nazr in the next couple of games until Dice gets healthy. 41 mins was to much for Flip jr...should have played Alflolo more.

Max is not a starter, but I am encouraged by the play of the young guns, just hope flip will continue playing amir and please run some type of offensive plays for amir. I think we outrebounded the lakers....

They are I believe purposefully not running offensive plays for AJ at this point. The reason is that they want his head to focus on defense when he is out there and not have to worry about running plays to get shots.

Also too the extent that AJ starts to score he might also be thinking about his next shot rather than his opponents next shot.

They also want AJ and also Cheikh to focus on the non shooting offensive fundamentals, like positioning on the court, ball movement, setting screens etc etc.

There is an awful lot to integrate when you are just starting to play for a team as a rookie.

Durant can take tons of shots because that is what he gets paid to do and Seattle is not very good so they need him scoring ASAP, but in the process I am sure that a number of non shooting things are required of a player at his position, he may be behind on at this point.

I think when Hot Rod comes back AJ will get a few more touches, but it his defense that I want to see shine which it did tonight.
:hoops:

Oh well, at least we know that Samb can play in the middle. I say both he and AJ come in before Nazr from now on


fixed :)

Other notes: Our offense is terrible. Nothing but guards going one-on-one. Pure selfish basketball. The young high-percentage shooters (Amir, Max, Samb) COMBINE for 3 total shot attempts. All the while Rip takes 12 shots, and only 1 was in the paint (which was still a jumper BTW)

Rebounding is terrible too (Zone D will do that). How about this, get Amir/Samb on the floor along with some guards who want to play D (Afflalo comes to mind), and play some man-to-man.

On a side note, Flip called AJ "Amar" in his post-game interview. I'm not sure if it was a Freudian slip reference to Amare or if Flip just doesn't know his name.

Is is possible to send Murray to the D-League?

fixed :)

Other notes: Our offense is terrible. Nothing but guards going one-on-one. Pure selfish basketball. The young high-percentage shooters (Amir, Max, Samb) COMBINE for 3 total shot attempts. All the while Rip takes 12 shots, and only 1 was in the paint (which was still a jumper BTW)

Rebounding is terrible too (Zone D will do that). How about this, get Amir/Samb on the floor along with some guards who want to play D (Afflalo comes to mind), and play some man-to-man.

On a side note, Flip called AJ "Amar" in his post-game interview. I'm not sure if it was a Freudian slip reference to Amare or if Flip just doesn't know his name.

That is a major problem, and a good idea. Although im not sure flip has any other adjustment only zone. Someone's scoring let's zone, having trouble defensively zone again. He doesn't seem to have much else after that.

Lets start with Flip Murray. He got to play. 29 points for LA in the first quarter, with Flip in there. In the 4th, with Flip in most of the time, we gave up 41. Flip did score, and I like that he got to the rack on a few occasions. But the fact he can't bring the ball up under pressure, and can't play very good defense, means he really should not be playing for us. At least not as a point guard.


Now Afflalo. With Afflalo in, our defense is simply better. Even if Murray is still in the game, a guy like Afflalo is so good that we still look fine. And man, we did fine with Afflalo in the game tonight, but Flip Saunders absolutely would not stick with him tonight. For whatever reason, he kept letting Rip and Flip Murray stink it up even though Afflalo was playing some seriously good basketball.


Apparently, Flip thinks like this: I got to play the vets. Murray is a vet, so he must play. Rip is a vet, so he must play. Afflalo is doing fantastic out there, and we are winning if he is in the game, but he is not a vet and so will not play.


After watching Samb tonight, I am going to change the tone of my rotations for a while. They are going to feature Samb starting at center. This moves Sheed over to power forward where he belongs anyway. Mohammed was the first big off the bench, and that was a joke. Mohammed could not keep up with anyone, and of course, his inside play on the offensive end was horrid. At least Flip Saunders did not make us ill in the 2nd half by letting him play anymore. Instead, he actually played someone who could play some hoops, Samb. No way Samb should be heading to the D-League. We should cut Mohammed, and keep Samb around, maybe even to start for us.


JMAX had a poor game as a starter, getting into too much foul trouble way too early. The bright spot was all the free throws he was nailing.
Sheed had basically a lethargic game on offense for the most part. But he did do some good stuff here and there.


Hayes hit several shots. And he played some power forward for us, where he really belongs if he plays.


Tay was so so, but for this game, he was not used right at all. We desperately needed a point guard out there, but Flip Saunders was too busy experimenting with the likes of Murray and Hunter running things. Quite disasterous, and actually comical at times. Just hurt a bit too much to laugh though.


Rip had a truly horrid first half, both in shooting and ball handling. Followed by a better shooting 2nd half, but more poor ball handling. He showed no ability at all to step in for Billups a bit in handling the ball. I will say though that Kobe was held nearly scoreless in the first half, so Rip was doing something at least.
Kobe never heated up until the last five minutes, and heck, he was shooting and scoring over Tay. So what more could we have done? We could have played Tay at point, Afflalo at shooting guard to guard Kobe, and Amir at small forward. And probably came away with a win. But my guess, Flip was sick to his stomach from having been forced to play the rookies and other young guys so much. (From Dyess and Billups not playing plus a lot of foul trouble.)


LA's offense was real simple most of the game. Miss, get the rebound. Miss again, get the rebound. Eventually, the ball would take a lucky bounce and LA would put in some slop. yes, guys like Afflalo, Samb, JMAX, and Amir were playing some seriously good D. LA was shooting under 30% thru 3 quarters.


The Pistons were hitting 50%, but not getting the offensive bounds (some, but not like LA was), and not getting to foul line (like LA was.) Further, points off our turns were all for LA.


If Amir was in the game, we were doing just fine. In the first half, we were playing losing basketball, but lost no further ground after Amir entered the game. In the 2nd half, we were playing even. Amir came in and we got a bit of a lead (6 points I think) before Amir came out. We finished the 4th with an 11-2 run, and Afflalo and Amir were both in during most of that. But to start the 4th, you guessed it, they were not playing, and did not return to the game.


I don't know what the totals were in the end, but before Amir left, we were up to 5 blocks. Maybe 3 by Amir and 2 by Samb. (Or reverse that.) Maybe JMAX had one of those. Samb was altering a lot of shots too. The guy is just plain tall. Despite Samb just so easily shooting over his defender from about 18 out shortly after he entered the game, he was not given another shot to take from the outside. Kind of wierd. Let the guy shoot.


Amir got his share of rebounds. I see no problem there for him. Samb gets his share too, just because he can jump higher than any other human. (that I know of)


As soon as Afflalo came in, Kobe tried his level headed best to score on him. Nothing doin. After about 3 tries, he realized he was not going to earn his money that way.


I absolutely hate losing. Yes, I loved that the young guys got to play, and I love how well they did. I do see all that as a big positive for this game. But darn, Mohammed is still allowed to wear the uniform. And Hunter has not retired. And worse, here is Flip Saunders making believe again that Flip Murray is a point guard. (I honestly thought this non-sense over when Prince was playing point a lot to back up Billups for several games.) Will Flip Saunders learn? He sure has a lot of talented young guys. Will he keep fighting Dumars, and let us fans see a truly excellent team in action. (The one Dumars envisions; please Flip, let it happen, and quick - us fans truly do hate to see a loss when there was just no reason of the loss.

They are I believe purposefully not running offensive plays for AJ at this point. The reason is that they want his head to focus on defense when he is out there and not have to worry about running plays to get shots.

Also too the extent that AJ starts to score he might also be thinking about his next shot rather than his opponents next shot.

They also want AJ and also Cheikh to focus on the non shooting offensive fundamentals, like positioning on the court, ball movement, setting screens etc etc.

There is an awful lot to integrate when you are just starting to play for a team as a rookie.

Durant can take tons of shots because that is what he gets paid to do and Seattle is not very good so they need him scoring ASAP, but in the process I am sure that a number of non shooting things are required of a player at his position, he may be behind on at this point.

I think when Hot Rod comes back AJ will get a few more touches, but it his defense that I want to see shine which it did tonight.
:hoops:

This is just an excuse. Flip does not want the young guys to play at all. When they do play, he does not want them to shoot. If they were allowed to shoot, they just might hit some shots. Now it would look really bad for Fliip not playing them. By not shooting, the average fan will think they can't shoot, and go along with Flip not playing them. Its an old old trick. And very stale indeed.

My guess is that he had already played 18 minutes so Flip took him out because AJ was out of gas.

It would seem to me that the reason that AJ did not go back in is because they iced his ankle when he came out. His ankle is still not 100% and his achilles tightens when AJ cools down after running.

There is just too much risk to his ankle once it had cooled down if he would be sent back in. That is my educated guess. Why risk re-injuring his ankle?

He is coming along nicely. Once Hot Rod comes back Murray's minutes will go down to what they should be which is minimal.

It could also be that Flip wanted to use the starters to finish the game, which I can understand if that was it, but I don't agree.

:hoops:

This I will not buy for a minute. They could have kept that ankle loose. Amir was nowhere near exhausted either. He only played about 8 minutes in the 2nd half.

We did not lose this game because we played our young guys.

We had a chance to WIN this game because we played our young guys.

The only reason we were ever in this game was because of our young guys.

We lost this game because we played some "vets" that had no business being on the court in crunch time.

We lost this game because we have a coach who doesn't have the faintest idea how to coach.

Maxey must have had a minus 20 tonight. I don't know if it was worse than the GS game, but he is not cutting it as a starter.

AJ was probably another +8 tonight.

:hoops:

Lets see how JMAX does with good defensive guards in the game. (Like we could have had if Tay had started this one at point with Amir starting at small forward.) And lets calculate what his plus minus would have been tonight witout all the inept guard play giving them points off turns.

I won't say JMAX should start, since maybe Samb or Amir would be better starting. But compared to the likes of Mohammed, CWEBB, and now Dyess, give me JMAX any day as a starter.

We did not lose this game because we played our young guys.

We had a chance to WIN this game because we played our young guys.

The only reason we were ever in this game was because of our young guys.

We lost this game because we played some "vets" that had no business being on the court in crunch time.

We lost this game because we have a coach who doesn't have the faintest idea how to coach.


Try being more specific.

That was a very good defensive effort by Kobe Bryant on Rip. Did you see how hard he was trying? He is one of the best one-on-one defenders in bball and he seemed to have a vendetta. I think that his own personal drought in the first half made him determined to at least take it away from Rip. All of Rip's makes were either quick shots or they were forced.

Also, Tay and Sheed were working extremely hard to get open, but it wasn't happening.

Give LA some credit for their effort. Farmar took it to an amazing level in the 4th. Flip couldn't handle it, so we put in Lindsey, who couldn't handle it either. I'm pretty sure Afflalo and Tay would have struggled as well. Good thing we have CB, with some of the surest handles in the NBA, and Stuckey on ice. Next time we play LA, this won't be an issue.

I'm not upset in the least by this game. The Lakers had 18 points in the 3rd quarter and 41 in the 4th. For 3 quarters of bball, we played unrealistically good defense. We finally got to see our young horses in real game time... and in a hostile environment. Amir played like a warrior, Afflalo was looking like Bowen on Kobe, and we all got a great surprise with Samb's passion and shot blocking display.

Saunders trusted the youngsters and tried to win the game by going with his vets. Not an unusual decision. But the reason it didn't work out is that the Lakers got hot and Kobe went into the zone.

Good news - we have some good young talent on this team. About time too.

Afflalo was looking like Bowen on Kobe

Alfflao just helps our defense so much. He's that good. Which is why i don't see the 1st two games w/o Rip being a fluke. We were playing better with him in the line-up b/c Rip for whatever reason has been awful lately.

I'm worried Flip won't get that and only put Afflalo in the game if there's a/ foul trouble, b/a Kobe Bryant type player.

Afflalo just makes our team defense better.

The lineup we should've seen in the 4th was Amir/Sheed/Hayes/Afflalo/Tay

a mix of vets and rookies.

Rip is starting to make me nervous. I remember reading a quote in the paper, talking about how Flip was joking about putting Sheed at PG, and Sheed was like that's cool, but said to Rip that he wasn't going to run any plays for him or pass him the ball so he should just stay home LOL

so much truth in that

Rip simply cannot handle the ball. Neither can Flip Murray. Simple as that. Tay should have handled the ball tonight as Lee pointed out.

Our main guys just were bad. Sheed and Rip especially. Tay was Ok. Not sure I will blame the coach in this game except as Lee has pointed out, he has no clue about his personnel in many, many games.

Samb and Amir indeed bring some spark. Indeed, agree again, they looked better than Nazi.

We were playing without our two point guards and it showed. Hopefully, our young bigs will be good enough to address our front line weak points.

Now, about the coach...

I mentioned on the trade strand, Kobe can play big time defense. The Lakers are still a bad team. Don't be fooled by tonight.

Last night game showed me what we're all about. We're aroung 7th in the league talent wise. We need to play the kids extensively during the regular season and finish with 44-47 wins. Let's enter the playoffs as a hungry and rested team which has a good blend of experience and TESTED youth. Then we'll surprise people and make it to the finals. If this happens, then Flip is a good coach and Nazr averages about 4 minutes a game this season.

Other notes: Our offense is terrible.

That is what happens when it is run by your third and fourth string point guards.

:hoops:

Honestly, I'm more happy with that loss as I am with most wins- the young players got their burn and they did well. That should happen more often and not only at times when 2 starters are injured. AJ showed he can compete at NBA level and even Samb did ok, which was surprising as I thought he'd be more far away from being at NBA level as he seems to be.

Honestly, I'm more happy with that loss as I am with most wins- the young players got their burn and they did well. That should happen more often and not only at times when 2 starters are injured. AJ showed he can compete at NBA level and even Samb did ok, which was surprising as I thought he'd be more far away from being at NBA level as he seems to be.

I felt the same way.............

A classic Flip Sequence was at the end of the 1st when Flip decided to take his time on D, so Farmar buried a 3 in front of him. So with 20 seconds left, instead of running a good play, Flip decides he has to show up Farmar, and takes him one on one. Which results in a bricked layup with no time left.

Last night game showed me what we're all about. We're aroung 7th in the league talent wise. We need to play the kids extensively during the regular season and finish with 44-47 wins. Let's enter the playoffs as a hungry and rested team which has a good blend of experience and TESTED youth. Then we'll surprise people and make it to the finals. If this happens, then Flip is a good coach and Nazr averages about 4 minutes a game this season.

This makes all the sense in the world. Too bad it has so little chance of happening. Unless we get a new coach.

I will disagree on one point though. I believe if we played our youth extensively, including bring Sammy Mejia back to the team, and did not play Flip Murray, Hunter, Dupree, nor Mohammed, we would win more like 60 games. These young kids for sure need more experience, but they are pretty darn good as is.

Honestly, I'm more happy with that loss as I am with most wins- the young players got their burn and they did well. That should happen more often and not only at times when 2 starters are injured. AJ showed he can compete at NBA level and even Samb did ok, which was surprising as I thought he'd be more far away from being at NBA level as he seems to be.

How happy would you be though if this turns out just to be a fluke game, and Flip Saunders hardly plays Amir, Afflalo, or Samb next game? I think I will go read the press, and see if any of the beat writers even acknowledge that Amir can play the game. (It would be fun to see McCoskey do some serious backtracking.)

Just read McCoskey. He mentioned that Amir played. He mentioned that Amir got into foul trouble. (Not true though) Thats it. And he made out like playing these younger guys was part of why we lost. In sum, he was terrible. Next, I will read freep.com

freep.com gave good props to Amir, and really seriously good props to Samb. More like it. Somebody from the press did watch the game, good to know.

mlive also gave major props to Samb. Amir was mentioned for his rebounding, but slammed a bit on his defense. I guess this writer did not notice Amir was our only plus player for the night. Oh well, at least the guy watched the game, and I do appreciate reading the good props to Samb.

In all, still bad reporting. None of them mentioned Afflalo. None of them mentioned his good defensive sequences against Kobe, and none of them mentioned he was part of that stifling defense in the 3rd quarter.

I'm not sure why Flip Sr. is taking the hits for this loss. Amir played a lot of minutes, which we've all been clamoring for, and he played great. And yes, I know there are injuries, but did ANYONE on this forum have Samb playing even one minute of meaningful ball this year? Yet there he was, thrown into the thick of things when the Pistons needed a boost, and when he immediately made a huge impact on D, he ended up playing almost 15 minutes total. In what was, let's remember, the first regular season game he's ever played in (no garbage time minutes for him yet in any other game). The turnovers near the end were awful and possibly cost them the game, but that would be more of a concern if either of the two primary ball-handling guards had been in uniform. Like I said up-thread, I'm disappointed that they lost, but how can we be anything but excited with what the two (!) young big guys showed? And who, exactly, was making the decision to put them on the floor?

People tend to forget how valuable C-Bill is to this team. It happens every time he goes out for a few games and Murray flashes his exciting playground no defense high turnover games.

C-Bill is + 14 on the Roland Rating this year. We don't have anyone else even close, except maybe AJ after last night. Interestingly enough AA and Hayes are down at the bottom with Nazr and Hunter, though after last night they may have moved up a bit.

We didn't win an NBA title and get to the ECF finals 5 straight years with Murray at the point!!!

Detroit Pistons NBA stats and data from 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0708/0708DET.HTM)

:hoops:

I think rebounding as a whole hurt DET more than the turnover spree in the 4th.

I would like to believe that these young guys could play, but Flip is horrible at figuring out how/when to play guys. It seems to be all or nothing with him.

Sheed did not look like he was running well at all. The last few games took a toll on him. That is not good in November.

If Rip can't get open off of the screens they were running last night, shouldn't the screener be open?

If Flip can figure out how to use all these guys then I can live with these kinds of losses.

Growing pains guys....

:nerd2:

Bottom line, now seeing that the young guys did well, you got to move Nazr down the rotation ladder Flip. Amir and Samb up.

And Flip Jr. has to yield to Stuckey once in game shape.

Rip now scares me. He is not as effective in Flip's offense as he was in Larry Brown or Rick Carlisle's.

Tay should be aggressive. He is a mismatch waiting to happen in every game.

JMax comes off the bench.

Growing pains guys....
Quoted for truth.

Am I the only one surprised that Cheik wasn't just filler for the Mole Evans trade?

Watching him and Amir taking turns blocking Bynums shots gave me chills.

Growing pains guys....


I think not.

No C-Bill big pains
No Dyess medium size pain.

Nothing to do with growing pains.

However, there will be growing pains with Hot Rod for a while, but as long as C-Bill can be available and not banged up come playoff time, no sweat.

:hoops:

Am I the only one surprised that Cheik wasn't just filler for the Mole Evans trade?

Watching him and Amir taking turns blocking Bynums shots gave me chills.
It's a radical idea, that Joe Dumars might still know what he is doing every once in a while. I'm quick to criticize Joe, and was planning to write a blog post about it this weekend, until the kids played.

It's not that I didn't think they were good, but I didn't think they would get a chance to prove it. There is a lot of interesting potential with this lineup, but it has to be explored, developed and nurtured. Not every seed will bear a tree, but I refuse to believe that our young guys are that much more inferior than any other young corps in the league, until it has been proven to me.

I think we all know about Josh Howard, Tayshaun Prince and to a lesser degree Dwyane Wade. People weren't sure they could be stars but they are.

IMO Rip has lost it--dude's a couple steps from being washed up. I'd try to trade him...he can't get separation to get his shots off--he thinks he's a star mentally, but has ZERO one on one game and no handles...he still shoots as though he's the man instead of recognizing when he's off and deferring to Tay (tay should be a bigger part of the Offense and get more of Rip's shots).

Lee 356 -- we'd win 60 games if we played the rooks?? some of you are ridiculous homers. I mean it's cool to be a homer, but to do it beyond rational belief is pretty funny/sad. No offense...

Anyways--Amir has some problems out there--he doesn't box out effectively. I think that's because he's used to just being superathletic, but in the league everyone is for the most part...so you gotta fundamentally box out. Many occasions he just tried to jump for a ball and lost a couple that way.

Cheikh surprised me--nice jumper from the baseline...obviously he needs some more playing time because he had that deer in the headlights look--for a first game though--his performance was amazing. (although he was dealing with a pretty piss poor front line). But I like him a lot...

Flip %%%%ed up the whole offense...Jr. that is. Dude just doesn't know how to NOT BE GREEDY. Dude acts like he's trying to prove something on offense isntead of just running the show

IMO Rip has lost it--dude's a couple steps from being washed up. I'd try to trade him...he can't get separation to get his shots off

Anyways--Amir has some problems out there--he doesn't box out effectively. I think that's because he's used to just being superathletic, but in the league everyone is for the most part...so you gotta fundamentally box out. Many occasions he just tried to jump for a ball and lost a couple that way.


If you were held every time you made your cuts you would also have trouble getting separation.

Yes AJ needs to learn to box out better, but as it stands he is still our best rebounder and good for over 12 a night average if he were to start. If you are going off of just last nights game you have to realize that there are not a lot of, less than a handful, guys that can block out Drew.




:hoops:

for everyone complaining about not giving the young guys time, you can't also complain about the loss. i'm happier with this loss than i am with a couple wins we've had this year.

first the bad - flip and rip - yes another game where i did not like either. the problem with flip comes whenever he takes a jumper that is longer than 10 feet - it misses. well that and his porous defense, terrible turnovers, and poor decision-making. in the 1st half a couple lakers hit wide open shots with no one anywhere close to defend, and every time it was because flip wasn't even around to defend his man. then the pick-pocketing by farmar...just terrible (although a couple times lakers got steals they should've been over-the-back fouls). rip is dangerous against LA because he always makes it a personal battle against kobe and it hurts the team. to saunders' credit, he recognized this. rip was being unfairly defended, and the refs seemed afraid to call anything on kobe, but still.

props to amir. i didn't think his defense was poor - just he'll have to learn some better positioning and get a little stronger. but sheesh, he had 4 blocks and 7 rebounds in only 18 minutes.

hayes was great, and this was a mistake by flip to only give him 17 minutes. he was a scoring machine and really helped us come back in the 2nd quarter before the game was threatening to get out of hand. unlike delfino, he'll win us a playoff game when his shot is on.

samb was incredible. is LA the biggest or strongest in the frontcourt? no. but samb looked like an NBA player either way. he was quick enough to jump out on 3-point shots twice and those super long arms came close to blocking them. he altered a ton of shots, blocked some more, and was an intimidating presence inside. he got pushed around a little bit trying to get rebounds, but he never looked outmatch or too weak. plus his jumpshot was smooth.

i think what most people have forgotten though, is how poorly he used to run and how uncoordinated he used to look. last night he ran hard up and down the floor and never looked awkward. keep in mind this is the first year he's fully been with the pistons, and been properly coached on strength and conditioning. in the span of a couple months he looks like a completely different player.

sheed looked like he took the night off and tay get somewhat lost in the shuffle when again he should've been more of a focus in the offense, but flip and rip weren't ready to give that up. hunter played alright in 7 minutes. jmax got hosed on calls again, which has happened in 3-4 games this year, but he was the only one who got to the line consistently, especially in the 1st half, and knocked down 7/8 (that's 13/16 in his last two games, raising his FT% from 55% to 62%).

afflalo also looked great. there wasn't a ton offensively (as he didn't look for his shot or touch the ball that often), but he made a sweet basket cut to blow by his defender and amir gave him an excellent pass from the top of the key for an easy lay up. what was really impressive was his defense on kobe. tay can have problems because he backs off on kobe since he's got the length. rip does alright but usually has the wrong mindset against the lakers. but afflalo was tough - he stayed with kobe, never got bit on a pump fake, never got shaken out of his shoes, and challenged every shot. you can see why dumars likes bigger and longer guards. when stuckey comes back we're going to have consistent lineups where our shortest guy is 6-5.

on the lakers' end, it was fun to watch bynum and farmar, who are going to be good players in this league. but let's not be fooled - they're still seriously flawed, and would've had no chance against us with chauncey in the lineup.

it was definitely fun to watch our 'length lineup' with samb, amir, tay, hayes, and rip on the floor.

one other thing that's bothered me is free throws. flip murray is an atrocious 56% this year - yes, we've been relying on a guard who shoots 6% worse at the line than maxiell. now look what happens when we get stuckey back - we've got two young guards who are superb at the line, and hayes hits them at an 83-85% clip as well. in other words, we're not going to be giving up as many free points, and good job to joe picking up long, strong players who can also hit a bunny.

sure we haven't seen stuckey in a regular season game yet, but he's going to be so much of an upgrade over murray - especially because when he gets to the line he'll actually be making his free throws. and finally i'll give credit to saunders for playing his young guys in a tough arena, on national tv, and keeping them in there when they were playing well. whether that came from a joe dumars mandate or not doesn't matter.

Why was Rip always trying to post Kobe up? I have seen some folks reference Rip's star metality and I agree. To be a true superstar you need to be able to physically dominate your opponent. Rip would have to play CYO ball to do that. He is like your little brother - always trying his best to beat you, always a step slow and always to weak.

Did anyone notice Samb's footwork when he had to come away from the basket? Atrocious may be an understatment. I think teams are going to put him in pick & rolls if he plays more. You could hide him in a zone though.

Finally, what is up with Sheed and his T's? There is no way he has completely turned his act around. I smell a rat. Something is going on in the league office or something.

Yes we got six vets in Sheed, Tay, Billups, Dice, Hayes and uh Rip; and some youngsters to train and groom in Max, Samb, Stuckey, Afflolo and Johnson. But Murray, Hunter, Nazr and Dupree are dead weight and we need to find replacements sooner than later at least by the allstar break.

Only Murray contributes inconsistently as it is, but the others should be shipped out or released to make room for Meija and Webber as they can sit on the bench and be more productive than Dupree and 37 year old Hunter. At this point even 38 year old PJ Brown who is sitting at home could be more more productive than Nazr at least on the defensive end...

We saw some action out of our young players on this trip, but whose to say that those guys will get more burn when Dice comes back? We all know Flip sr.:messer:

The Piston enigma on this west coast trip has been Rip... I don't know if he misses his newborn or that he just doesn't play well in the Red uniforms, but he needs to play smart himself when Billups is out.

Enjoyed reading through the posts.

Amir and Samb made it a very interesting game. Had a glimse of the future with those 2 comming off the bench trying to block everything in site. Kind of took be back to the Rodman/Sally rookie season. Daley was a great coach, not sure if what we saw will sink in with Flip especially once Dyess gets back. Also I am sure Phil Jackson was just as surprised as we were to see Samb play so there was probably no plan at all on how to play him. Not even time for a half time adjustment since he played in the 3rd.

Other than that Lamar Odom had a career game. If he played that way every game he would be the premier PF which he is not. Pistons will get another shot at him and the Laker team so we will have to wait until then.

Rip needs some slack. He missed the whole last 2/3 of the pre-season and a few more games earlier in the season. Give him some time. We all know the type of player he is and he will get it back soon.

for everyone complaining about not giving the young guys time, you can't also complain about the loss.


Sure you can. The young guys were the only reason we were in the game. I hate the fact that it is going to be automatically assumed that we lost because Samb/Amir played real minutes. The reason we lost is because we had Rip/Flip/Lindsey as our playmakers, and we couldn't get a rebound in the zone D. Speaking of Rip, I am really starting to sour on his selfish mentality out there lately. He has to know that there are better offensive options out there than having him go one-on-one and shoot 20-footers all day.

you have a fair point, and i can't disagree with you that our young guys were great and part of the reason we stayed in the game (especially because of their defense through 3 quarters). i was speaking in more general terms, but perhaps in too broad of a manner. :)

Other than that Lamar Odom had a career game. If he played that way every game he would be the premier PF which he is not. Pistons will get another shot at him and the Laker team so we will have to wait until then.

Odom is not playing power forward.

He is playing the #3

Turiaf now starts at the #4 and with his absence Cook started last night at the #4.

The Lakers put Odom back in the #3 slot, which is where he played when he was with the Heat, in order to minimize the hard physical contact against his left shoulder and hence another possible surgery on his left labrum. I believe he has torn his left labrum on at least two occasions that have subsequently required surgery.

:hoops:

Did anyone notice Samb's footwork when he had to come away from the basket? Atrocious may be an understatment. I think teams are going to put him in pick & rolls if he plays more. You could hide him in a zone though.



I kinda agree with you here. Maybe it's his first NBA non garbage time game. Like Amir, he needs to improve on his footwork and better positioning. Right now, when he plays, we got to play zone D.

Anyways, it was still fun to watch him play. I almost got caught watching the game while at work cuz I was smiling happily and almost jump off my chair when both Amir and him took turns to block Bynum on one possession.

Odom is not playing power forward.

He is playing the #3

Turiaf now starts at the #4 and with his absence Cook started last night at the #4.

The Lakers put Odom back in the #3 slot, which is where he played when he was with the Heat, in order to minimize the hard physical contact against his left shoulder and hence another possible surgery on his left labrum. I believe he has torn his left labrum on at least two occasions that have subsequently required surgery.

:hoops:

Guess we can blame it all on Prince then for not camping out under the baskett.

Guess we can blame it all on Prince then for not camping out under the baskett.

Odom is a very good player, when he is healthy, just as good as if not better than Tay. His career average is 16 PPG, 9 RPG and 5 APG. All the numbers are higher than Tay's 12 PPG, 4 RPG and 2 APG, in those respective categories. Tay is better defender, but Odom is a better all around player when he is healthy.

:hoops:

Odom is a very good player, when he is healthy, just as good as if not better than Tay. His career average is 16 PPG, 9 RPG and 5 APG. All the numbers are higher than Tay's 12 PPG, 4 RPG and 2 APG, in those respective categories. Tay is better defender, but Odom is a better all around player when he is healthy.

:hoops:
Agree with Buddha here. The other comparisons are that both can take over a game when needed, but Odom is never passive so he will be that consistent number two scoring option and is never afraid to take it to the hoop. Still getting back into game shape right now, but he was close to a double-double last year in pts and boards. As Buddha says, better defense out of Tay and he avoids injuries. With that being said, Odom might be a better fantasy player though.

We got the taped game on local sport channet this afternoon, I love what I saw behind a lost game. The young bloods will bail Flip Sr out if he play them more and play them with a system, priod.

Why do we have to make separate trips to the West coast to play the Lakers and Clippers at Staples when the Bulls get to play them on back to back nights at Staples?

:hoops:

Why do we have to make separate trips to the West coast to play the Lakers and Clippers at Staples when the Bulls get to play them on back to back nights at Staples?

:hoops:
Another team either NY or Indiana did the same thing a coulple of years back it seams, but I recall it Pistons ever playing lakers and Clippers on back to back games since the Clippers came to town some 20 seasons or so ago. It would save on Roundball One's gas, but I guess the players would like to make two visits to la :lalala:land to hang out at the beach, Holloywood, etc.