At Sacramento November 18th, 9:00 PM

TV - FSN Detroit, NBALP


The Pistons will try and close out this five game west coat trip with a win against the Kings to make it three wins out of five games. This will be "Ron Ron`s" third game of the season and he has given his team a spark, also Kevin Martin is among the league leaders in scoring.

This should be an easy game.
Goo pistons

yup, no reason to lose this game. if we can come out of our first 10 games with 8 on the road and a 7-3 road record, it should give us a great start to the season.

Kevin Martin is making the Kings look pretty smart so far for extending his contract at $55 large over 5 seasons, which raised some eyebrows when it was announced. He's averaging 28 PPG!

This should be an easy game.
Goo pistons

We have been on the road for quite a while and I am sure that we are starting to drag. I don't expect C-Bill or Dyess to play tonight.

:hoops:

Hoping to see Samb and Amir get some more burn tonight.

You can do it Flip.

I don't expect C-Bill or Dyess to play tonight.

:hoops:

I say play them both, if they are ready to go..........the next game is not till Wednesday.......

I say play them both, if they are ready to go..........the next game is not till Wednesday.......

Will we see Hot Rod out there next Wednesday? Doctors check out his progress tomorrow.

:hoops:

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Ugly, depressing loss against a bad team tonight. With CB back in the lineup, the starters got off to a great start and led by 9 after the first quarter. The bench was pretty terrible in the 2nd quarter, but the lead at halftime was still 6. Then the third quarter was a complete disaster, nothing working on offense at all, including a 7 minute stretch where the Pistons didn't make a single field goal. They somehow took the lead briefly in the 4th again, but another collapse led to a comfortable win for the Kings. There really wasn't anything good about this game at all.

Well, looks like AJ, Max and Cheikh are not ready for primetime yet.

Terrible choke away in the second half, it was good to see Dave Cowens take a technical. I just wish he took it for Sheed, not after.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. This team is not good enough right now.

AJ an AA only positive guys in +/- tonight. flip murray was good late but sucked early and allowed udrih to get off, which set the tone for the rest of the night. everyone else played lazy and uninspired defense to go with extremely uninspired offense. i'm all for giving the bench minutes, but to shove all 5 of them out there in the 2nd quarter for an extended period of time is something you save for the preseason. regular season, give them 1 or 2 vets to play with...terrible substitution patterns tonight.

we got killed on the boards by the worst rebounding team in the league. i've had mikki moore and kevin martin on my fantasy team all year and they usually get 2-4 boards a game, tonight they got 9 and 8, respectively.

we mailed in the last game of our road trip. i wouldn't have minded if we finished 7-3, but 6-4 cannot be considered anything but a severe disappointment.

Wow, Nazr just outplayed Maxiell, Johnson, and Samb combined.

And I'm not sure Murray wouldn't have finished off that game better than Chauncey.

Afflalo looks solid again.

Dyess's D is missed.

I don't think we mailed this game in, but we were content to keep it close so that we could do that thing with the switch again. The problem was, when we tried to flick it, it was jammed.

No Comment. I crashed (slept) at halftime thinking of the easy win.

Afflalo had a good game. That is it.

If our young bigs cannot be more consistant, then Joe will have to act. Nazi is not the answer either. 0-4 in free throws.

Yes, right, when Murray was looking good in the 4th, he was yanked.

Outrebounded by these guys??

Agree. Can't have the whole 2nd team at once. Not enough scoring.

Udrih is left-hand--I wish our team knew that in the 3rd quarter.

Agree with Micro, right now our level of play is just not very good.

This was a poor road trip after all.

I didn't watch the game but from what im getting from the recaps i've read.

Afflalo is awesome, but still doesn't get enough minutes.

Our coach still sucks.

Rip took stupid shots.

Sheed got his 1st technical !!

We don't how to rebound, and don't seem to care to correct it.

Does that about cover it?

----

I can't believe we lost to the Kings. bla

edited to add; Tay and Sheed almost 40 minutes. Wonderful.

First of all, we should have had this game well in hand, but we could not make free throws. End of a long road trip? Whatever. The free throw shooting was atrocious.


The youth played plenty. Maxiell fouled out without playing all that many minutes. Both Samb and Amir got a few less minutes in the first half due to foul trouble, although either could have gotten more minutes in the 2nd half.


Billups was back, but certainly not all the way. He did not play in the 2nd quarter, and came in late in the 4th. He made some shots, but also missed quite a few, especially in the 2nd half. Should he have played at all?


Rip hit some shots early, but he did not hit much of anything in the 2nd half. Not much of a game from him in all.


Sheed was awesome inside tonight, hitting 8 of 10 at one point. It seemed strange he was kept out quite so long in the 4th quarter.
Tay was on fire from outside most of the game. With him and Sheed scoring so well, yes, we should have won this one. Again, the free throws missed hurt us bad.


With Maxiell picking up two fouls quickly, Amir ended up playing most of the first quarter, and the Pistons had a double digit lead and were looking pretty darn good. Amir had a lot to do with that. Even though he was not let to take a shot, Sacramento was having a heck of a time contending with Amir, who was constantly around the basket. This was freeing up everyone else. Billups tried just once, and failed, to actually get Amir the ball. Amir was also very active on defense and on rebounding. Then Maxiell got in more foul trouble in the 3rd quarter, again early, and again Amir played much of that quarter. And the Pistons did just fine until Amir came out of the game.


Afflalo scored some, and played good solid D. Strangely though, Flip Saunders decided not to reward the guy with any further playing time. Instead, he actually played Prince at shooting guard. (Hayes at small forward, Billups at point)


Not to pick on Flip Murray but yes, the point guard play took a serious nose dive when Billups left the game after the first quarter. Flip Murray was not taking any shots, and he was not setting anyone else up either. The lead evaporated. However, playing with the starters for the most part, since Billups did not return in the 2nd, the Pistons with Flip did get a bit of a lead to head into halftime. Flip also played better in the 2nd half, getting inside some, finishing or making a good pass. Defensively though, like someone mentioned at Micro's place in their report, Flip may have been largely responsible for getting one of Sacramento's guards on fire with his lack of defense on him. In general, if Flip was in the game, our defense seemed to be lacking. On the other hand, its not like Billups or Rip were doing that great either on D. Afflalo played very good D, otherwise, the likes of Udrih (sp) and Martin scored way too easily and often.


Samb was the 2nd big off the bench tonight. Nothing spectacular. Maybe he got a bad call on what may have been a great block. But anyway, he certainly got some minutes in this game.


Mohammed got some offensive rebound putbacks. He did not play in the first half, but played extensively in the 2nd. I can't say he did all that bad in this game, but missing 4 of 4 at the line did not help us any. He joined a long list of Pistons who did bad at the line tonight.


Well, its getting close to the return of Stuckey. No, that is not as important as it seems. Why? In this game, Prince played guard quite a bit in the 4th. He could have played point instead of shooting guard. Prince actually played backup point for us in a few games already. Why is Flip Saunders insisting on using Flip Murray at point? It ain't to win games.


Amir can play small forward. Hayes in turn can play power forward, just like he did tonight after all the foul trouble on our front line. Which means Tay is free to play point, if Saunders chooses to try to win a game. Now hey, I won't say this game was lost because of the point guard choice by Saunders, cause obviously, the poor free throw shooting was a huge factor in this loss. But choosing not to use Prince at point certainly does not help the cause any.


Well, a couple of losses, but at least the young guys played well, and they played quite a few minutes. Still, no trust shown in the 4th quarter for guys like Afflalo and Amir who showed a lot in this game, just like last game. Lets all hope the trend continues to play the youngsters, and that Flip Saunders does not decide to blame these losses on the young guys playing.
GO PISTONS!!!!!

With Maxiell picking up two fouls quickly, Amir ended up playing most of the first quarter, and the Pistons had a double digit lead and were looking pretty darn good. Amir had a lot to do with that. Even though he was not let to take a shot, Sacramento was having a heck of a time contending with Amir, who was constantly around the basket. This was freeing up everyone else. Billups tried just once, and failed, to actually get Amir the ball. Amir was also very active on defense and on rebounding. Then Maxiell got in more foul trouble in the 3rd quarter, again early, and again Amir played much of that quarter. And the Pistons did just fine until Amir came out of the game.

Afflalo scored some, and played good solid D. Strangely though, Flip Saunders decided not to reward the guy with any further playing time. Instead, he actually played Prince at shooting guard. (Hayes at small forward, Billups at point)



I wonder if Flip will ever realize the defensive impact that AJ, and AA have. It seems like we have too many offensive players (or too many players not interested in playing defense). Sheed is the only one that seems to try. Maybe that's why we were so successful with AA in the starting lineup.

Lee,

I just don't see many positives in this game. We had them early (agree) and then couldn't get anything going with either the first or second team.

We were outrebounded by them. Amir was banging inside but I didn't see great results--maybe I missed it. And worrisome, is that he is not showing offense. Yes, I will wait and see but no offense so far... Samb looked a lot slower than Friday and was getting pushed around some. We know that Nazi has not been the answer so I am concerned about our front line. Maxiel has been inconsistent with flashes of brillance.

I agree that Tay should handle the ball more and not Murray. Still, late in the 4th, Murray was penetrating that pourous Sac. defense and Flip pulled him for Chauncey.

Yes, Sheed did well inside and Tay hit shots. But I didn't see great defense by either.

We need to re-group at home. We are playing well below a quality team right now. We just played 5 poor teams. Its early...

There was a 5 minute period in the 2nd or 3rd where Rasheed just stood around and did nothing. Even the announcers said something about him not having to move to get a rebound that came to him, but before and after that I was already watching him either dog it, give up, or be lost.

Even the last couple of games, Tay has looked a little sleepy out there at times.

Something's not quite right. Joe will fix it if he can.

There was a 5 minute period in the 2nd or 3rd where Rasheed just stood around and did nothing. Even the announcers said something about him not having to move to get a rebound that came to him, but before and after that I was already watching him either dog it, give up, or be lost.

Even the last couple of games, Tay has looked a little sleepy out there at times.

Something's not quite right. Joe will fix it if he can.

Yea, Joe has to fix things by FIRE FLIP!!!

Thanks for the recaps folks. I mssed this one attending the Auto Show and some how or another my DVR didn't tape it. Looks like that 5-1 start was fools gold and we need to teach these guys how to play some defense or get some replacements. How did we allow all five teams on this west coast trip to score over 100 points after holding first five back east to under 100? Did the red uniforms suck the defense out of them?? If so please dump those red unis over the rockies on the way home.

Lee,

I just don't see many positives in this game. We had them early (agree) and then couldn't get anything going with either the first or second team.

We were outrebounded by them. Amir was banging inside but I didn't see great results--maybe I missed it. And worrisome, is that he is not showing offense. Yes, I will wait and see but no offense so far... Samb looked a lot slower than Friday and was getting pushed around some. We know that Nazi has not been the answer so I am concerned about our front line. Maxiel has been inconsistent with flashes of brillance.

I agree that Tay should handle the ball more and not Murray. Still, late in the 4th, Murray was penetrating that pourous Sac. defense and Flip pulled him for Chauncey.

Yes, Sheed did well inside and Tay hit shots. But I didn't see great defense by either.

We need to re-group at home. We are playing well below a quality team right now. We just played 5 poor teams. Its early...

Look at the 8 minutes Amir played with the starters in the first quarter. We were about plus 10 there. A lot of that was Amir running the floor, getting under the basket, and forcing Sacramento to address him thru the whole possesion.

As for Amir not shooting. You got to remember, if any of these young guys shoot the ball, it will make the coach mad, and he will yank their minutes. Saunders barely tolerates that they even get playing time.

There was a 5 minute period in the 2nd or 3rd where Rasheed just stood around and did nothing. Even the announcers said something about him not having to move to get a rebound that came to him, but before and after that I was already watching him either dog it, give up, or be lost.

Even the last couple of games, Tay has looked a little sleepy out there at times.

Something's not quite right. Joe will fix it if he can.
Perhaps the Pistons have come down with Defensive Mono.

Mononucleosis, also called “mono,” is a common viral illness that can leave you feeling tired and weak on both ends of the court, but particularly on the defensive end, for weeks or months. Defensive Mono is highly contagious. Lackadaisical play can spread to teammates very quickly if not kept in check. Mono goes away on its own, but lots of rest and good self-care can help you feel better. Giving the bench consistent minutes (i.e. not playing your starters to death), finding the right mix of your units to maximize their strengths, and not sucking at coaching can help expedite the recovery process.Infectious Mononucleosis-Topic Overview (http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/infectious-mononucleosis-topic-overview)

Blue text added for emphasis.

I had mono once. It sucked.

The team seems to be polarized right now. We have 5 amazing vets, Billups, Rip, Tay, Sheed, and Dyess and we have 5 highly talented, but inexperienced younger players, Stuckey, Afflalo, JMax, Amir, and Samb. We have the trade bait, Nazr, Dupree, and Flip, and a player who should retire, Hunter.

Hayes is sort of the only in-between player. He's young, but experienced. Sort of a hired gun for this season only.

So I guess the more I think about it, the more I think we need to create 2 different lines with a mixture of old and new. The "best starting five" in bball seems to have trouble motivating. The new breed doesn't know how to do it on their own yet. When you add Murray or Nazr in with them, it makes it even worse.

It is tough to ask a guy like Rip to come off the bench. It would take some leadership by Saunders to implement a plan like this.

But I guess I would like to see the old and new mixed.

Billups
Afflalo
Prince
Johnson
Sheed

Stuckey
Hamilton
Hayes
JMax
Dyess

Flip, Samb, and Nazr could be inserted as needed.


Then have the usual starting 5 finish the games.

I know it will not happen, but I think that someone like Popovich would consider it.

OK first of all, get off of Flip M. Beno lit us up in the 3rd qtr, Chuancey's qtr. Flip did not even play in the 3rd qtr. Flip played in the 4th and was the only Piston who was even trying to get into the lane. The moment Billups returned we tanked. I played the Point from 1st grade until sophmore year of college, so I watch that position like a hawk, last night this team was better with Flip on the floor. There was alot of bad stuff going on last night but don't gimme none of that Flip M bailout BS, dude played a solid game off the bench in the 2nd half as he deferred to Hayes in the 1st half stint.

Now....This will be my rant all year long...."Bench Rip for AA" not as a demotion, but because the team is better when everyone is involved. We have stars taking on role player roles and that is not good. Rip and Chauncey are starting to play 2 on 5, and every now and then they let Sheed in on the game. Tay has to get his by luck and not design, while Dyess is lucky to touch the ball every 5th time down court. Rip and Chauncey are starting to remind me alot of Mobley and Francis back in the day.

By the way, if we are planning on trading Flip Murray, then we are doing a great job showcasing him right now. His trade value must be higher than it was over the summer because of his recent play.

I don't want to see an extended benching period before we decide to move him.

I'm also cool with keeping him, cause he is more valuable than Dupree, Hunter, and Nazr to us.

By the way, if we are planning on trading Flip Murray, then we are doing a great job showcasing him right now. His trade value must be higher than it was over the summer because of his recent play.

I don't want to see an extended benching period before we decide to move him.

I'm also cool with keeping him, cause he is more valuable than Dupree, Hunter, and Nazr to us.

I think we should start showcasing Flip M. in this forum so that all those web-saavy GM's and scouts will want to trade their best players to us for him. Here goes:

Did you see Ronald play last night? Boy, was he on the ball! SURE HOPE JOE DOESN'T TRADE THIS GUY! HE'S THE KIND OF PLAYER WHO WILL WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!

How was that? :MusicBigGrin:

We can't let Flip Jr. go until Stuckey is healthy and integrated in the rotation. If something happens with Chauncey, we have only Tay left to run the point. I don't think he can handle it for the extended period.

I think we should start showcasing Flip M. in this forum so that all those web-saavy GM's and scouts will want to trade their best players to us for him. Here goes:


I've been doing my best. For some reason, the others keep sabataging my plan.

There is something wrong attitudinally with this team. They are not playing the team game. No one is consistently going to the hoop. Not enough passing. Low energy when it requires extra energy. Players deferring to the same old shooters, whether or not they are hitting or not hitting. There is no one we can count on to make a shot when we need one. When Rip and Chauncey are having bad games they still get the crucial shots at the end. Where is the defensive energy?

This team is badly in need of a shake up. Joe, do what you do best.:stirthepot:

We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
Have we started the AAHOF club yet?? If not I am now appointing myself as President/CEO/Dictator.

In all seriousness, I really believe him starting would help this team. As I mentioned before and will continue to mention Rip & Chauncey have turned into the new Francis & Mobley. I forgot who posted it but I would love to see a starting unit of:
Sheed
AJ
Tay
AA
Billups

2nd Unit
Flip/Stuckey
Rip
Hayes
Maxiel
Dyess

We could then mix in the best unit at the end of halves.

Rip and Chauncey are starting to remind me alot of Mobley and Francis back in the day.
Co-signed. It's become an unhealthy relationship IMO.

Co-signed. It's become an unhealthy relationship IMO.

Roscoe, you know as well as anyone that if it ain't rough, it ain't right.

There is something wrong attitudinally with this team. They are not playing the team game. No one is consistently going to the hoop. Not enough passing. Low energy when it requires extra energy. Players deferring to the same old shooters, whether or not they are hitting or not hitting. There is no one we can count on to make a shot when we need one. When Rip and Chauncey are having bad games they still get the crucial shots at the end. Where is the defensive energy?

This team is badly in need of a shake up. Joe, do what you do best.:stirthepot:

You do realize that is per the coach? Saunders dictates which players are allowed to shoot. If you don't have the green light, you will not continue playing if you shoot the ball more than maybe twice a game.

We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
We want Afflalo
Have we started the AAHOF club yet?? If not I am now appointing myself as President/CEO/Dictator.

In all seriousness, I really believe him starting would help this team. As I mentioned before and will continue to mention Rip & Chauncey have turned into the new Francis & Mobley. I forgot who posted it but I would love to see a starting unit of:
Sheed
AJ
Tay
AA
Billups

2nd Unit
Flip/Stuckey
Rip
Hayes
Maxiel
Dyess

We could then mix in the best unit at the end of halves.

Sounds good to me. I am going to post a rotation in the rotations thread that is similar.

I think we should start showcasing Flip M. in this forum so that all those web-saavy GM's and scouts will want to trade their best players to us for him. Here goes:

Did you see Ronald play last night? Boy, was he on the ball! SURE HOPE JOE DOESN'T TRADE THIS GUY! HE'S THE KIND OF PLAYER WHO WILL WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!

How was that? :MusicBigGrin:
That's like a pebble trying to hold back a tidal wave.:pound:
FLIP M + CHAMPIONSHIP = 10 posts (usually includes key words like: won't, never, can't, and not)
FLIP M + SUCKS = 10,000 hits

Roscoe, you know as well as anyone that if it ain't rough, it ain't right.
I prefer the neurotic, "they are always out to get us, its always a battle" instead of the "we'll play hard when our backs are against the wall".

Dare I say it but I think the Pistons are starting to play a really boring style of basketball. They have no fluid motion and to be truthful I don't get as much of a kick out of watching them play like I did for the last few years. Maybe it's because I grit my teeth and grind them down when Nazr and Flip Jr. are in there. I want my old Pistons back where they played determined and sometimes maniacal defense. Joe D. needs to make a few trades and play the young-uns more. No I don't want Kobe Bryant but a trade is always a good thing and no one is expendable. Rip Hamilton is a great complementary player and he's our most valuable trade bait so I would put him on the block first. Stuckey is a more natural 2 guard and when he gets back let him have the spot with Hayes and Affalo backing up our guards. So get-er-done Joe or else this team is going to slide into mediocrity very soon. If Rip is traded then Tay can move up to the 2nd option on scoring and he'll be an all-star this year guaranteed.

Dare I say it but I think the Pistons are starting to play a really boring style of basketball. They have no fluid motion and to be truthful I don't get as much of a kick out of watching them play like I did for the last few years. Maybe it's because I grit my teeth and grind them down when Nazr and Flip Jr. are in there. I want my old Pistons back where they played determined and sometimes maniacal defense. Joe D. needs to make a few trades and play the young-uns more. No I don't want Kobe Bryant but a trade is always a good thing and no one is expendable. Rip Hamilton is a great complementary player and he's our most valuable trade bait so I would put him on the block first. Stuckey is a more natural 2 guard and when he gets back let him have the spot with Hayes and Affalo backing up our guards. So get-er-done Joe or else this team is going to slide into mediocrity very soon. If Rip is traded then Tay can move up to the 2nd option on scoring and he'll be an all-star this year guaranteed.

Those Pistons will not be back until we get rid of Flip Saunders. Personnel changes won't do anything.