At NO Hornets Dec. 5th, 8:00 PM

TV - FSN Detroit, NBALP

The Hornets will be well rested since their last game - a win over the slumping Mavs on Saturday (Dec 1st). The Pistons better be ready, this team is the real deal led by CP3, representing 19 ppg and 10 apg.

Talking about New Orleans the home of Jazz as anyone heard "Tay's Blues" by The Cool Moose Orchestra?



The members of The Cool Moose Orchestra are all high school age student jazz musicians and have strong foundations from their associations with the Ann Arbor Public Schools Summer Jazz Program (directed by Sean Dobbins), Ann Arbor School For The Performing Arts Jazz Program (directed by Paul Finkbeiner and Jack Wagner) and the Ann Arbor Community High School Jazz Program (led by Mike Grace).

http://www.pkorecords.com/cds/coolmoose/coolmband_bw.jpg


Tay's Blues is Glenn's dedication to Tayshaun Prince, Detroit Piston's gentle giant. The gritty funk feel and the tenor saxophone battle between Glenn and Yali Rivlin create vivid imagery that evokes the intensity that is Detroit Pistons basketball.
The Cool Moose Orchestra (http://www.pkorecords.com/cds/coolmoose/coolmoose.htm)

:hoops:

If the Pistons win this one running away I will be very impressed!!!!!

If the Pistons win this one running away I will be very impressed!!!!!

I am not looking forward to either C-Bill or Murray trying to guard Paul.

We could probably really use Hot Rod for this one, but he is still under doctors care.

:hoops:

I sure don't expect this one to be a runaway. A close win would be very welcome, but those guys are pretty good. Although, oddly enough, their road record (8-2) is a lot better than their home record (4-4).

Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Looks like our defense can still get it done.

Paul was averaging 21 and 10 at home

We held him to 14 and 7 in 38 minutes.

:hoops:

It looked like this might be a long night as the Pistons got off to an absolutely awful start...no ball movement, jacking up stupid jumpers, getting beat in transition off every miss. Hornets were up 15 late in the 1st quarter, until a Pistons run that lasted through the end of the 1st and into the 2nd cut the lead almost all the way down. JMax and Jarvis helped get them back in it off the bench, especially JMax with two monster follow slams, though the Hornets got the lead back up to 10. After some of the other starters came back in, CB and Dice helped lead a big rally the rest of the way to give the Pistons a 2 point lead at halftime. Then a dominant second half on the boards, with second chance points all over the place, led to a double digit lead, plus some good defense and terrible Hornets execution. CB couldn't hit the side of a barn from the floor, but he got to the line a bunch in the last quarter, and Lindsey did a nice job off the bench for a few minutes in the second half. Offensive rebounding was the key factor in the second half. Another one: Pistons committed only 6 turnovers in the whole game.

4 games, 4 out of 5 nights, 4 different cities...and 4 double digit wins. Not too shabby, I'd say.

Four games, five nights, four victories!!! The Pistons started off slow, but got back in to the game with the help the bench specifically Hayes, Max and yes even Hunter.

They continued their 3rd quarter separation that they had exhibited in the last 3 games, but this time it wasn't the blowout as obviously they were playing a better team and of course there was a little fatigue factor in there too.

No AA, AJ or Jr tonight as Flip knew he was in for a struggle and didn't want to risk anything. I still think he could have given AA & AJ a couple of minutes in the second qtr, but we know Flips persona...

Good road win and now five straight since the JAZZ loss.

I love the Pistons!

Four games, five nights, four victories!!! The Pistons started off slow, but got back in to the game with the help the bench specifically Hayes, Max and yes even Hunter.

Good balance as our bench outscored theirs by 8, and our starters outscored theirs by 7.

Tough night for Chandler, with 17 points and an eye-popping 22 boards going for nothing. David West was a brick-tacular 3-15, CP3 only 4-14, and Pargo a horrendous 1-8 off the bench, including at least a couple of baffling off-balance runners that had absolutely no prayer of dropping.

Well, another fantastic 3 quarters of basketball. Only this time, it was the last 3 quarters. We were down 15 in the first half. Some good play from Maxiell, like two monster putback slams, and lots of Hayes taking advantage of small N.O. guards trying to guard him in the post, got us back into the game. Our starters played much better in the 3rd quarter, got a double digit lead, and N.O. pretty much just folded up their tent and went home about maybe 6 minutes before the game was over.
The Pistons played just an 8 man rotation, with Mohammed getting 5 minutes to start the 4th. No Murray, Amir, nor Afflalo.


Hunter did nothing too well, but nothing too bad either. He was effective enough to spell Billups in each half, and thats it. Good enough.
Billups got to the line a lot down the stretch, and Rip got player of the game with 21 points. Both our guards were playing some serious D those last 3 quarters.


Tay did not shoot at all in the first quarter, and never did get anything going at all.


Dyess had a pretty darn worthless first quarter. His play picked up considerably when in with the subs later in the 2nd quarter. I am thinking Dyess really does not like to take shots away from Billups, Rip, Sheed, and Tay in the first quarter. Dyess did hit an outside shot or two, but what I liked most was when he did go inside here and there. Dyess may have lost some ability vs. before his knee surgeries, but you know, just maybe there are less really good post defenders these days. Dyess should not sell his inside game short. And darn good job - after the first quarter, of going after the rebounds.


What a difference a month makes. Now Jason comes in for added rebounding. No, No, No, Jason is not better all the sudden. He is simply getting regular, every game, no games anymore, minutes. His comfort level has risen from the steady minutes. Knowing your role well allows you to concentrate on your mechanics. Note, when played a lot of minutes last year, we saw the same Jason Maxiell as we have seen the last few games. We just did not keep playing him good minutes.


I am not too upset about some of the youngs getting shut out in minutes tonight. They played just last night. Its not like they will gather rust from not playing one game amidst a furious schedule. Altogether, Pistons management has done quite well these past five games. Lots of player development, and five wins.
GO PISTONS!!!!!

Just want to add a few things that we take for granted when they happen.

The leadership on the floor for the Pistons was awesome. Sheed, Chauncey, Dyess. The Hornets melted down and the Pistons looked like pros. CB's shot was off, so he adapted and picked up a ton of fouls in key situations. Once we were down, the Pistons were rebounding and playing D as their way to get back in the game. It is great to see that down in their gut, they KNOW how to play the right way. Sheed's unselfishness on offense set a tone and it was contagious.

We just beat a team with a "true" PG and a "true" center, on the road, after being down double digits early.



On a side note, nothing against BW, but you gotta admit that the Bulls quit on Chandler 1 year too early. He's a productive mofo.

It is great to see that down in their gut, they KNOW how to play the right way.

Didn't learn it from Saunders.

I think the coach should get a little credit here for making some adjustments against a good team on the road when we came out shooting as cold as the weather in Detroit and were down by 15 early playing our 4th game in 5 nights.

A little credit, but not too much or maybe only a very little credit like $.02 worth. LOL

:hoops:

I think the coach should get a little credit here for making some adjustments against a good team on the road when we came out shooting as cold as the weather in Detroit and were down by 15 early playing our 4th game in 5 nights.

A little credit, but not too much or maybe only a very little credit like $.02 worth. LOL

:hoops:I agree. Blame and credit are two sides of the same coin. The team has been playing well and Flip IS a part of that.

I still think you gotta get PT for your developing guys because you might have games like this...or even a string of them...where you can't find room for them. So get them in as much as you can when you can.

If the Pistons win this one running away I will be very impressed!!!!!impressed yet???//:MusicBigGrin:

I gotta give Flip some real credit here. AA got zero run tonight, zero. But I ain't mad about it (AJ and Delfino fans should take note). Flip did something really cool, he went big on the perimeter playing Tay and Hayes at the same time. No way the Hornets guards would be able to guard both of them in the post and it worked. The lineup of Lindsey, Hayes, Tay, Max, and Dyess/Sheed was pretty effective, I cant wait until Stuckey replaces Lindsey in that equation, we will really be something to reckon with at that point.

Going with Hayes instead of AA was pretty smart as this team needed the scoring of Hayes more than they needed the things that AA offers us. This indeed was one impressive win. On the road vs a really good team, offense not really clicking, mostly the whole teams shot was off and not to mention that whole 4 games, 5 nights in 4 cities on the 2nd night of a back to back......IMPRESSIVE!!!!!

Also one other thing. This team started out playing bad early - nothing us Pistons fans haven't seen before, a slow start. Tonight however we did not have to wait until the 4th qtr for this team to pull out the win. This team got the game under control in the 2nd qtr and never relinquished it, that might be the first time I've seen them do this under Flip.

I think the coach should get a little credit here for making some adjustments against a good team on the road when we came out shooting as cold as the weather in Detroit and were down by 15 early playing our 4th game in 5 nights.

A little credit, but not too much or maybe only a very little credit like $.02 worth. LOL

:hoops:

by coach I meant Uncle Sheed not Flipper. LOL

All of these subtle improvements have taken place since Flipper acknowledged this last summer that Uncle Sheed be the real coach here.

:hoops:

Last year this was a loss. No doubt. Maxiel and Hayes start us going. The starters re-group and just plain outclass that bunch. (By the way, I wanted us to spend the money and get Chandler when we lost Ben).

The Maxiel effect is what I call these last few games. His play makes it so much easier for the starters. This is a very good trend...

Last year this was a loss. No doubt. Maxiel and Hayes start us going. The starters re-group and just plain outclass that bunch. (By the way, I wanted us to spend the money and get Chandler when we lost Ben).

The Maxiel effect is what I call these last few games. His play makes it so much easier for the starters. This is a very good trend...

Once Hot Rod gets into the flow of things if he can play as good as we expect him to then our first three off the bench should be pretty darn good.

:hoops:

i think this picture says it all...

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/e8d13f52-c508-44d0-8037-7e63b12d83a4.jpg

Coach's post game comments


"If the starters get down, the bench is coming in there to pick us up and close that gap, or if we're up, they're coming in to sustain the lead," Wallace said. "That's what's making it look easy for us, though it's really not."



NBA - Detroit Pistons/New Orleans Hornets Recap Wednesday December 5, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2007120503)

:hoops:

It's gonna be the quote of the day.

It is fun seeing games like this. Nice run they have going but they do it every year. Keep it up and don't get derailed in the Spring.

On a side note, nothing against BW, but you gotta admit that the Bulls quit on Chandler 1 year too early. He's a productive mofo.


I am sure that Paxton and Skiles kick themselves everytime they compare Ty Chandlers stats to Ben's. Some chemistry problems at the United Center or where-ever they play at these days.

Only wish we could done a sign and trade with the Bulls to get Chandler before he was shipped off to Nawlings......with the numbers he put up last year, that was definitely a title that Pistons missed out on...

I think Dumars was trying to get Chandler but the Bulls did not want to deal.

They turned to defense, started grinding and led from halftime on in a 91-76 win -- their fifth straight.

"Their best offense is their transition, and I thought we started the game shooting quick shots and missing," said point guard Chauncey Billups, who struggled at times but finished with 18 points and six assists. "When you do that, you're off to the races. ... You can't beat them like that."


Starting in the second quarter, the Pistons slowed the game to their pace. As the Pistons pestered Chris Paul with traps, the Hornets' offense tanked. They finished with 34.7% shooting and 13 turnovers, and didn't score more than 18 in any of the final three quarters.


"We shrunk the floor," coach Flip Saunders said. "We tried to pin him on the sides. ... You're not going to stop him with one guy. You need a team effort, and that's what we had."
DETROIT 91, NEW ORLEANS 76: Fourth game in five days doesn't derail Pistons; team wins fifth straight (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/SPORTS03/712060433/1051)

:hoops:

Now that was impressive. And the sort of game these guys have just given up on in the past. You got to love Hayes - just comes in and shoots the ball when the starters begin to look shell-shocked, when no one else seems to want a shot. The whole game turned when he hit a couple of jumpers.

Not sure if this is right or not...

Ben was a rebounding machine. And too many times the other Pistons sat back and got out of his way, maybe because they thought they were supposed to, who knows. Without Ben the rest of the team is finally coming around and starting to rebound as a unit. Seems like the same thing is happening in NO with Chandler. Everyone is getting out of the way and letting him go for all the boards, and when he's out, or when he gets blocked out, it all goes pear shaped. One big guy doing all the dirty work can get you a long ways, even to a championship, but I really like it when rebounding is the responsibility of the whole team.

another thing to note...

- delfino shot 41.5% for us last year, and 33.3% from 3
- hayes is shooting 48.5% and 43.6% from 3

another thing to note...

- delfino shot 41.5% for us last year, and 33.3% from 3
- hayes is shooting 48.5% and 43.6% from 3

Hayes probably has more shot attempts already this year then Fino had ALL last year.

Hayes probably has more shot attempts already this year then Fino had ALL last year.
Not quite there yet. Delfino attempted 376 shots last year, Hayes is up to 130 so far.

Not quite there yet. Delfino attempted 376 shots last year, Hayes is up to 130 so far.

With extended playing time Jayes will catch him by the All Star break.

Here's the Lowdown (is that copyright protected?):

Let's compare them this year.

Delfino-
In 510 minutes, he is 36-85 from inside the arc and 36-82 from 3pt land.
That is and eFG of .539 and 13FGA/40 min.

Hayes-
In 344 minutes, he is 46-89 from inside the arc and 17-39 on threes.
That is an eFG of .550 and 15FGA/40 min.


The only difference that I can see in their offensive production is that Hayes shoots a much higher % from close range (51% vs. 42%). That is likely due to all the post success he is having.


Delfino is kicking butt and so is Hayes. I think we would have been OK going either direction on this. However, Delfino probably needed a change and more minutes. The minor benefit to us is that Joe maintained a little bit of good will by not letting an unhappy situation fester.

Uuuggh OK lets be totally objective.
Carlos Delfino was/is a good basketball player. The things that Carlos Delfino does well he was not able to do them here. Toronto is a better situation for Delfino to excel in. It would have made no sense whatsoever for this team to change it's structure for the sake of Carlos Delfino. Case in point some of us have had jobs where our best skills were never used, for a variety of reasons, the culture of the company, the ideal position was already being filled by a very competent person etc. etc. The same can be said for Delfino. Los needs mins and touches, he's not instant offense, he likes to play himself into a game and allow the game to come to him. There is nothing wrong with any of that, all of those are good qualities. In Detroit he did not have the luxury of playing that way, in Toronto he does, case closed. Delfino was never going to work here unless we dumped Rip or Tayshaun.

I like the way you think!

Hayes probably has more shot attempts already this year then Fino had ALL last year.

CD played 82 games last year and had 376 shot attempts.

He has already tossed up 167 shots in 19 games or about 8.8 per game

Hayes has only 130 shot attempts in 18 games or about 7.2 per game

So CD is tossing up about 25% per shots per game than Hayes

Murray has 131 shot attempts in 17 games or 7.7 per game

So Delfino is tossing up 15% more shots per game than Murray.

So Delfino lead the race for gunner of the year award.

:hoops:

CD played 82 games last year and had 376 shot attempts.

He has already tossed up 167 shots in 19 games or about 8.8 per game

Hayes has only 130 shot attempts in 18 games or about 7.2 per game

So CD is tossing up about 25% per shots per game than Hayes

Murray has 131 shot attempts in 17 games or 7.7 per game

So Delfino is tossing up 15% more shots per game than Murray.

So Delfino lead the race for gunner of the year award.

:hoops:


This would be the difference between the "Detroit" Delfino and the "Toronto" Delfino. He is a part of the offense in Toronto and even though not a "major" part; he plays enough minutes over there to get up some shots without forcing them.

This stat really does show how big a ball hog Murray is. Delfino is playing a ton of minutes in Toronto and Murray is getting only garbage time minutes and is still close to Fino's shot attempts per game.

So fellow :nerd2:...

Last year Delfino shot the ball once for every 3.6 minutes he played
This year Delfino shoots the ball once for every 3.1 minutes he plays

So, he's actually shooting less this year than last.


Hayes last year shot the ball every 3.0 minutes
This year Hayes shoots every 2.6 minutes.

So, he's also shooting less than last year, and a lot less than Delfino either here or there.

Go figure.

So fellow :nerd2:...

Last year Delfino shot the ball once for every 3.6 minutes he played
This year Delfino shoots the ball once for every 3.1 minutes he plays

So, he's actually shooting less this year than last.


Hayes last year shot the ball every 3.0 minutes
This year Hayes shoots every 2.6 minutes.

So, he's also shooting less than last year, and a lot less than Delfino either here or there.

Go figure.

You got that backwards.

Hcihw?

You got that backwards.
Yeah. Both shoot more often this year.

Uuuggh OK lets be totally objective.
Carlos Delfino was/is a good basketball player. The things that Carlos Delfino does well he was not able to do them here. Toronto is a better situation for Delfino to excel in. It would have made no sense whatsoever for this team to change it's structure for the sake of Carlos Delfino. Case in point some of us have had jobs where our best skills were never used, for a variety of reasons, the culture of the company, the ideal position was already being filled by a very competent person etc. etc. The same can be said for Delfino. Los needs mins and touches, he's not instant offense, he likes to play himself into a game and allow the game to come to him. There is nothing wrong with any of that, all of those are good qualities. In Detroit he did not have the luxury of playing that way, in Toronto he does, case closed. Delfino was never going to work here unless we dumped Rip or Tayshaun.

Some revisionist history in your post. Nobody was complaining about Delfino's defense last year. Great defense fits in anyones system. On ball handling, Delfino is pretty darn good while its a major deficit for Hayes. On shooting, we simply never let Delfino get into a rythm. His coaches told him not to shoot. The coaches decided not to let him handle the ball much, while the same coaching staff has let Flip Murray handle the ball a whole lot the past two seasons. The truth is Delfino, with a myriad of skills, can fit on any team. Flip Saunders is the problem, and the only problem, in the situation.

With this said, I don't have any particular reason to like Delfino. I just admire him as a very good ball player. Him leaving or not was not the point. Him leaving for virtually nothing is what concerns me. It quite a pattern, one we hope is ending. But it ain't ended yet. Dumars has a whole lot of trips to make out behind the woodshed to get his point across to Saunders yet, in my opinion.

we don't need hayes for his ball-handling. kgreg made some great points. the game we saw last night - that's what we need jarvis for: instant offense, rebounding, and posting up. delfino was never meant to play point or handle the ball, and was never meant to play his way into the game. unfortunately those are his strengths and don't really fit this team. delfino would never get enough minutes to play into the game, rendering him less effective.

we don't need hayes for his ball-handling. kgreg made some great points. the game we saw last night - that's what we need jarvis for: instant offense, rebounding, and posting up. delfino was never meant to play point or handle the ball, and was never meant to play his way into the game. unfortunately those are his strengths and don't really fit this team. delfino would never get enough minutes to play into the game, rendering him less effective.

Boy Hog, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!:thumb:

Hayes and Maxiell pump life into Pistons. When Hot Rod gets going and up to speed, we will have the best 8 man rotation in the league.

Give a few minutes to AA and Nazmo as necessary and leave AJ and Murray for garbage time.

The better that Maxey plays the harder AJ will find it to get non-garbage time minutes this year as long as there are no injuries to our bigs.

Tay and Hayes at the 3

Maxey Dyess and Sheed at the 4 and 5. That is 96 minutes divided by 3 or 32 minutes each. Give Nazmo a few here and there against the heavier centers as needed and there just aren't enough minutes for AJ this year, except during garbage time in blow-outs.

I expect that we could have more than a few more blowouts over the year so he will get some minutes and Maxey, Sheed and Dyess will be fresh for the playoffs.

Then we go to basically an 8 man rotation for the playoffs. Looking good right now.

:hoops:

Hayes and Maxiell pump life into Pistons. When Hot Rod gets going and up to speed, we will have the best 8 man rotation in the league.

Give a few minutes to AA and Nazmo as necessary and leave AJ and Murray for garbage time.

The better that Maxey plays the harder AJ will find it to get non-garbage time minutes this year as long as there are no injuries to our bigs.

Tay and Hayes at the 3

Maxey Dyess and Sheed at the 4 and 5. That is 96 minutes divided by 3 or 32 minutes each. Give Nazmo a few here and there against the heavier centers as needed and there just aren't enough minutes for AJ this year, except during garbage time in blow-outs.

I expect that we could have more than a few more blowouts over the year so he will get some minutes and Maxey, Sheed and Dyess will be fresh for the playoffs.

Then we go to basically an 8 man rotation for the playoffs. Looking good right now.

:hoops:
Sounds like a pile of excuses to me. Something Dumars is fighting. The idea is to have the best playoff team possible. That definitely includes Amir being part of the rotation, and it definitely includes Afflalo getting meaningful minutes too. A ten man rotation, with Billups, Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Prince, Hayes, Dyess, Amir, Sheed, JMAX will win it all. Any less and probably not. Mohammed and Hunter are the 11th and 12th guys.

Sounds like a pile of excuses to me. Something Dumars is fighting. The idea is to have the best playoff team possible. That definitely includes Amir being part of the rotation, and it definitely includes Afflalo getting meaningful minutes too. A ten man rotation, with Billups, Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Prince, Hayes, Dyess, Amir, Sheed, JMAX will win it all. Any less and probably not. Mohammed and Hunter are the 11th and 12th guys.

What team do you know of that had a regular 10 man rotation, (during the playoffs) won the NBA title?

My point simply is, it sounds good on paper but in reality coaches just don`t go that deep in their bench during the playoffs. Ever.

So fellow :nerd2:...

Last year Delfino shot the ball once for every 3.6 minutes he played
This year Delfino shoots the ball once for every 3.1 minutes he plays

So, he's actually shooting less this year than last.


Hayes last year shot the ball every 3.0 minutes
This year Hayes shoots every 2.6 minutes.

So, he's also shooting less than last year, and a lot less than Delfino either here or there.

Go figure.:confused:

:confused:

Hey, it's exactly what I said, except backwards.

Delfino is shooting more frequently this year, as if Hayes, and Hayes more frequently than Delfino.

What team do you know of that had a regular 10 man rotation, (during the playoffs) won the NBA title?

My point simply is, it sounds good on paper but in reality coaches just don`t go that deep in their bench during the playoffs. Ever.

In 2004, a certain team played 11 guys in the playoffs. And this certain group just happened to win a Championship.

1989. Three man guard rotation. Johnson, Thomas, Dumars. Aguirre and Rodman at small forward. Salley, Mahorn, Laimbeer, and Edwards rotating as our bigs. Thats a nine man rotation.

Why do you play a ten man rotation in the regular season? If you have two injuries, you are down to an 8 man rotation that can still win it all.

A team that goes with an 8 man rotation during the regular season, and then cries about an injury at playoff time, is nothing but a loser. Loser mentality. Detroit should not accept loser mentality. The goal is to win a championship. Win, not make excuses.

With this 10 man rotation (Billups, Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Tay, Hayes, Dyess, Johnson, Sheed, Maxiell) losing any two players will not seriously hinder our chances to win it all, unless those two injuries came at the same position. (like losing Billups and Stuckey, or losing Maxiell and Sheed.)

To really do it right, we sign Mejia as soon as his ankle heals, and play Samb in the rotation some. Now if we lost both Billups and Stuckey, we could go with a point guard rotation of Prince and Mejia (with Rip and Afflalo actually guarding the point guards, while Prince and Mejia played the point on offense.) If we lost Maxiell and Sheed, we would still have Samb, a real center, starting at center, with Amir and Dyess rounding out a sound 3 man rotation. (And Mohammed would have a role here as a 5th big. Hayes would be the 4th big)

It does not matter how many guys you use in the regular season. When the playoffs come along, its about winning. Series by series. You play your best for each series. That might mean someone sits out a series. Shorten it up, just like hockey. But if you play too short a rotation in the regular season, you are done if an injury hits you. (See Detroit after losing Zelly just before the Boston series in Carlisle's first year. Carlisle had no backup plans at all for an injury to one of our bigs, despite Dumars having the talent on the roster - like he always does)

Lee, I agree with your basic concept, but I don't think I'll ever be convinced that the Pistons/ Spurs/ Suns, etc could win a Championship with a player like Billups/ Parker/ Nash out with an injury.

The point would be to sustain injuries to non-starters (or someone like Dyess or Rip) and also develop the non-starters so that when the playoffs come around, we have full information on what they can provide. At that point, you eliminate the 1 or 2 weakest of the bunch and let them stand by in case they are needed.

Billups/ Sheed/ and Tay are the rudder, sail, and mast to our 2008 Ship.

Rip makes the whole team better.

There are two Pistons whipping boys on this forum

Flipper and Rip. When things go a little south for us one or both get blamed based upon whatever seems to be the whim at the moment.

Flipper I can understand because there has been a great disappointment among many on the forum that we haven't won a ring since Brown was coach and Brown was very popular among many posters here.

Rip I can understand because there are a lot of posters here who were and are still ticked off that Joe D. traded Stackhouse, a big favorite, for Rip.

I imagine that when Broken Hand starts playing and making rookie mistakes that a lot of posters will start bashing him simply because he wears #3. Again understandable.

Cheers
:hoops:

In 2004, a certain team played 11 guys in the playoffs. And this certain group just happened to win a Championship.

1989. Three man guard rotation. Johnson, Thomas, Dumars. Aguirre and Rodman at small forward. Salley, Mahorn, Laimbeer, and Edwards rotating as our bigs. Thats a nine man rotation.

Why do you play a ten man rotation in the regular season? If you have two injuries, you are down to an 8 man rotation that can still win it all.

A team that goes with an 8 man rotation during the regular season, and then cries about an injury at playoff time, is nothing but a loser. Loser mentality. Detroit should not accept loser mentality. The goal is to win a championship. Win, not make excuses.

With this 10 man rotation (Billups, Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Tay, Hayes, Dyess, Johnson, Sheed, Maxiell) losing any two players will not seriously hinder our chances to win it all, unless those two injuries came at the same position. (like losing Billups and Stuckey, or losing Maxiell and Sheed.)

To really do it right, we sign Mejia as soon as his ankle heals, and play Samb in the rotation some. Now if we lost both Billups and Stuckey, we could go with a point guard rotation of Prince and Mejia (with Rip and Afflalo actually guarding the point guards, while Prince and Mejia played the point on offense.) If we lost Maxiell and Sheed, we would still have Samb, a real center, starting at center, with Amir and Dyess rounding out a sound 3 man rotation. (And Mohammed would have a role here as a 5th big. Hayes would be the 4th big)

It does not matter how many guys you use in the regular season. When the playoffs come along, its about winning. Series by series. You play your best for each series. That might mean someone sits out a series. Shorten it up, just like hockey. But if you play too short a rotation in the regular season, you are done if an injury hits you. (See Detroit after losing Zelly just before the Boston series in Carlisle's first year. Carlisle had no backup plans at all for an injury to one of our bigs, despite Dumars having the talent on the roster - like he always does)


I don`t totally disagree with what you are saying, however, IMO, coaches don`t go into the playoffs looking to play a 10 man rotation. Injuries, foul trouble and other situations arise during a game that may dictate going deeper into the bench than one might have anticipated.

During the Pistons championship run, 10 players were indeed seeing action on a consistent basis. Our starters still avg about 36 mpg, and the only reserves that saw double digit minutes were Okur and Mike James (just under 12 mpg).

Larry Brown understood when to play his bench during that run, for example, in the ECF against the physical Pacers, Williamson played an avg of 16 mpg, while only playing 10 mpg in the Finals.

Mike James on the other hand played about 10 mpg in the early rounds, but barely played at all in the Finals.

If you are talking about the regular season, the current Pistons are playing 9 and 10 men, perhaps, because of blowouts, injuries etc.......

The 10 players you would like to see out on the floor aren`t playing.

I think that`s the problem!!

I don`t totally disagree with what you are saying, however, IMO, coaches don`t go into the playoffs looking to play a 10 man rotation. Injuries, foul trouble and other situations arise during a game that may dictate going deeper into the bench than one might have anticipated.

During the Pistons championship run, 10 players were indeed seeing action on a consistent basis. Our starters still avg about 36 mpg, and the only reserves that saw double digit minutes were Okur and Mike James (just under 12 mpg).

Larry Brown understood when to play his bench during that run, for example, in the ECF against the physical Pacers, Williamson played an avg of 16 mpg, while only playing 10 mpg in the Finals.

Mike James on the other hand played about 10 mpg in the early rounds, but barely played at all in the Finals.

If you are talking about the regular season, the current Pistons are playing 9 and 10 men, perhaps, because of blowouts, injuries etc.......

The 10 players you would like to see out on the floor aren`t playing.

I think that`s the problem!!

I see no real disagreement from you with me here. I am not suggesting a 10 man rotation for the playoffs. I am suggesting having 10 guys minimum prepared to step in as needed. Twelve is the ideal. Larry Brown had 11 guys ready to play the year we won it all. The next year, he took that down to 8, and it burnt him bad in the championship series. He simply did not have the right players ready to contribute.

I see no real disagreement from you with me here. I am not suggesting a 10 man rotation for the playoffs. I am suggesting having 10 guys minimum prepared to step in as needed. Twelve is the ideal. Larry Brown had 11 guys ready to play the year we won it all. The next year, he took that down to 8, and it burnt him bad in the championship series. He simply did not have the right players ready to contribute.
In reality Lee if you look at the players we lost, Memo, James, and Corliss, it wasn't LB that cut the roatation that year it was Joe D. He did not do a very good job in replacing the things those guys brought to the table; because he (LB) did not trust either of the Carlos' or Darko.