ESPN - Vick gets 23-month sentence on dogfighting charges - NFL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3148549)


Michael Vick was sentenced to 23 months in prison Monday for his role in a dogfighting conspiracy.

Federal sentencing guidelines suggested a year to 18 months.

The suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback also received three years' probation at his sentencing before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson.

With nearly a month already served, going by Hudson's sentencing, Vick would be scheduled for release in October 2009.

Well, it sucks for him. But it still allows him to salvage his career if he plays it right. He needs to stay in top shape, mature as a person, and figure out how to best show it when he gets out.

If he can do those things, then I'd welcome him to QB for a team with a cat mascot... i.e. the Lions.

It's apparent now (and has been obvious for a while) that even if he gets a few months knocked off for good behavior, he still won't have any chance of returning to the NFL until the 2009 season at the earliest. But if the league applies an additional suspension after he gets out, he might not even be eligible to play until 2010. Given how stiff the sentence turned out to be, maybe the league will leave it at that and not suspend him at all, but it's tough to say at this point.

He will be out before 2009 training camp begins.

Nice to see he even gets a stiffer sentence than federal guidelines suggest AFTER agreeing to plead guilty. I wonder if I should be reading between the lines there.

Besides, he'll end up in the CFL because the NFL will go out of its way to make an example of him and never let him back on the field.

yeah i'm with the low...gotta read between the lines between this one. looks like the govt. is trying to make an example of him too.

Apparently there were some noises last week (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140049) about how "the government believes Vick has not been forthright in his debriefs with them, and they may push to have Vick sentenced on the upward end of the sentencing guidelines." Though I'm not sure that had anything to do with the sentencing in the end (if indeed it was true, which it might not have been), seeing as how the other guys in the case got pretty stiff sentences as well.

On the other hand maybe he will expand his non football business endeavors while he is a guest of the Feds.

He wouldn't be the first or last person to expand his/her business connections while spending time as a guest of the feds.

Not saying he will or won't but it certainly is a possibility.

:hoops:

With his sentence probably ending in May of 2009, he certainly has the opportunity to be ready for the regular season. (Federal prisoners can be released with 85% time served for good behavior.) I feel he will be a changed man once released and will totally pursue other interests. Prison time will allow him to seek other venues in which to spend his money. Hopefully, he'll lay low and buy a Dairy Queen............

On the other hand maybe he will expand his non football business endeavors while he is a guest of the Feds.

He wouldn't be the first or last person to expand his/her business connections while spending time as a guest of the feds.

Not saying he will or won't but it certainly is a possibility.

:hoops:
Or maybe he'll put together a team of prison inmates (http://imdb.com/title/tt0398165/) in a game against the guards (http://imdb.com/title/tt0071771/). :MusicBigGrin:

Apparently the judge is a dog-lover and has pictures of dogs on his desk! Not only that, he was the first judge to hand out a sentence for dogfighting like 20 years ago or something.

Tough break.

Apparently the judge is a dog-lover and has pictures of dogs on his desk! Not only that, he was the first judge to hand out a sentence for dogfighting like 20 years ago or something.

Tough break.

It appears that he is in the company of anywhere from 35 million American households to 68 million.


I've found quite a few estimates of the number of dog owners in the
United States, with a rather wide range of figures. Below I've listed
several sources for you.

The Kansas City Star says 68 million Americans own dogs:

"According to the Star, 73 million Americans own cats, while 68
million are dog owners."Tufts University
Tufts E-News -- Alum Wins Bronze (http://www.tufts.edu/communications/stories/070901BestPet.htm)

Focus USA, a database marketing firm, gives an estimate of 50 million:

"Currently there are approximately 50 million dog owners in the U.S.

"An article in Anthrozoos magazine sets the figure at 35 million:

The most precise figure I found online - 43,143,849 - came from
American Pet Association polls (from 1998 through 2001):https://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=177303

:hoops:

It appears that he is in the company of anywhere from 35 million American households to 68 million.

Dog-owner doesn't necessarily mean dog-lover. As this saga sadly shows.

Dog-owner doesn't necessarily mean dog-lover. As this saga sadly shows.

You are correct. Look at all of the people in a relationship that are forced to own a dog because their significant other wants one.

I actually met a lady today who used to frequent the greyhound races where she grew up in Scotland.

It is still legal in the U.S. in a bunch of states.

http://i.pbase.com/u43/kmayo/small/33608834.TampaRacingdone023.jpg

Open Directory - Sports: Greyhound Racing: Tracks: United States (http://www.dmoz.org/Sports/Greyhound_Racing/Tracks/United_States/)
:hoops:

I definitely think Vick has been made an example of. But does the punishment fit the crime? Yes. Does Vick have anyone to blame but himself? No. Was it unbelievably stupid for someone on top of the world to engage in such reckless behavior? Yes. Does he deserve to be allowed back into the NFL? I don't know. But everyone should have a chance to redeem themselves.

The feds made an example of Martha Stewart, too.

I definitely think Vick has been made an example of. But does the punishment fit the crime? Yes. Does Vick have anyone to blame but himself? No. Was it unbelievably stupid for someone on top of the world to engage in such reckless behavior? Yes. Does he deserve to be allowed back into the NFL? I don't know. But everyone should have a chance to redeem themselves.

The feds made an example of Martha Stewart, too.

It seems to me that when he is set free from his incarceration that if he desires to make a comeback he should be at least given the chance to see if he can still perform at the NFL level.

:hoops:

Whenever a famous person is convicted of anything besides murder, people say that they are being made an example of.

Vick accepted a plea bargain and avoided a potential 5-year sentence.

He could have just taken it to jury trial, right? Good luck with that if there are any dog owners there.

Whenever a famous person is convicted of anything besides murder, people say that they are being made an example of.

It is a decent argument, I think. When famous people are convicted, the nature of the crime gains a lot of notoriety as well. I think the feds think that it will be a deterrent in the future. "If we got Vick, we can get you, too."

I watched an ESPN town-hall meeting on this and there was the usual black/white divide. Blacks thought Vick was being made an example while whites thought that the crime was pretty heinous. And then people start talking about race all over again. Nothing seems to be as polarizing as when a black athlete gets convicted of something. I just think it's unfortunate.

ESPN - Vick case has us confounded by the race issue again - NFL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=bryant_howard&id=3035358)

Apparently the judge is a dog-lover and has pictures of dogs on his desk! Not only that, he was the first judge to hand out a sentence for dogfighting like 20 years ago or something.

Tough break.

The judge should never allow that to factor into his decision. If it has. That's a miscarriage of justice whether Vick pled guilty or not.

Judges should never hand down sentences based on their personal feeling or perceived connection with the issue.

Apparently the judge is a dog-lover and has pictures of dogs on his desk! Not only that, he was the first judge to hand out a sentence for dogfighting like 20 years ago or something.

Tough break.

So by that logic judge's shouldn't be allowed to be married, have a family, siblings or even have parents because then their personal feeling toward spouses, siblings, children and parents will be biased in murder cases involving spouses, siblings, children and parents and heaven forbid that they should have a picture of one of them on their desk.

:hoops:

I find it laughable the strtch that some people will go to make "race" the issue instead of the issue itself. I was listening to Jim Rome yesterday and he played the snippet from the Monday Night Football game where the owner made the comment about Vick staying away from fried chicken, french fries etc. while in prison to keep in shape.

There were callers complaining that the fact he mentioned fried chicken and that Vick is black; he was taking a racial shot at him. Are we in a society where a white man cannot use "fried chicken" in a black mans diet without it being a racial slam?

I heard the original sentance was doubled because he had a positive drug test when he checked in. He had agreed to stay clean while awaiting sentancing as part of the deal. He also lied about it.

"Doubled" sounds unlikely, max. The other guys who also got sentenced, all of whom had pleaded guilty before Vick and none of whom had financed the whole thing like he did, got at least 18 months each (I think) even though (as far as I know) none of them failed a drug test like Vick did. His sentence was pretty clearly going to be stiffer than theirs regardless of the drug test, but if that had led it to being doubled, it would mean he was going to get only 11 or 12 months, which doesn't seem the least bit likely.

Just some perspective here,

Has anybody on this forum ever slammed a dog into the ground until it died? Or hung one with a noose? Or run an inter-state gambling operation with hundreds of thousands of dollars changing hands? Or pleaded guilty to tax evasion?

I guess if I did all that stuff, I'd be pretty relieved to get 23 months in jail.

No name people go to jail for tax evasion all the time (5-year max). And they definitely didn't get a job with their former employers when they got out.

Vick spit on the legal system
By Dan Wetzel (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/expertsarchive;_ylt=ArP_G3Cl4HRa33rlTWwjkM_xxLsF?a uthor=Dan+Wetzel), Yahoo! Sports
December 10, 2007

The failed drug test alone was inexplicable. Just 17 days after promising to avoid drugs and alcohol, Vick smoked marijuana. The next day he took a drug test, which he failed, and then lied to an investigator about taking drugs.

Then there were Vick's "deception" with federal authorities, at least six such acts according to U.S. Attorney Michael Gill, even after the suspended Atlanta Falcon had agreed to fully cooperate.


Vick, for instance, initially refused to admit he took part in the hanging of a dog. He claimed instead that he carried the underperforming dog over to co-conspirator Quanis Phillips, who then hung him. But Phillips had stated that Vick had carried the dog over and after Phillips slipped a noose around its neck, Vick let the dog drop.


"He denied having hands on involvement in killing the dogs," Gill said. "He made a false statement; it was a calculated effort to hide the truth."
Gill said Vick eventually admitted to killing two dogs, "one by drowning, one by hanging."

There was also a failed lie detector test which, while not admissible as evidence, obviously angered Gill who argued (successfully) against any leniency.


Vick's repeated performances were apparently so twisted, confusing and inconsistent that everyone wound up believing his codefendants over him, despite the fact they have lengthy criminal records.


"These statements are inconsistent with statements by his codefendants," Hudson ruled. "(Vick) hasn't demonstrated the necessary level of candor."

If Vick had fully cooperated, told the truth and kept clear of drugs, he could have received as little as 12 months, which with good behavior could have seen him free by next September.


Instead he got longer sentences than either of his two former partners (18 and 21 months) despite their prior records and direct responsibilities with Bad Newz Kennels.

Given every opportunity to make up for his dog-fighting crimes, to live up to his word, to prove to everyone that this was just a lapse in judgment of a good man, he did just about everything wrong.
Vick spit on the legal system - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aim0GF_KLSC4k_ziQEeIRDtDubYF?slug=dw-vicksentencing121007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

:hoops:

Just some perspective here,

Has anybody on this forum ever slammed a dog into the ground until it died? Or hung one with a noose? Or run an inter-state gambling operation with hundreds of thousands of dollars changing hands? Or pleaded guilty to tax evasion?

I guess if I did all that stuff, I'd be pretty relieved to get 23 months in jail.

No name people go to jail for tax evasion all the time (5-year max). And they definitely didn't get a job with their former employers when they got out.

I have to agree. I'm sure that if I did any of these things, I would probably spend a few years in prison too.

I also don't think this would be less of a story if it were Payton Manning instead of Micheal Vick.

Just some perspective here,

Has anybody on this forum ever slammed a dog into the ground until it died? Or hung one with a noose? Or run an inter-state gambling operation with hundreds of thousands of dollars changing hands? Or pleaded guilty to tax evasion?

I guess if I did all that stuff, I'd be pretty relieved to get 23 months in jail.

No name people go to jail for tax evasion all the time (5-year max). And they definitely didn't get a job with their former employers when they got out.




:makmiday::cheerlie-GOAL::makmiday:

"Doubled" sounds unlikely, max. The other guys who also got sentenced, all of whom had pleaded guilty before Vick and none of whom had financed the whole thing like he did, got at least 18 months each (I think) even though (as far as I know) none of them failed a drug test like Vick did. His sentence was pretty clearly going to be stiffer than theirs regardless of the drug test, but if that had led it to being doubled, it would mean he was going to get only 11 or 12 months, which doesn't seem the least bit likely.

I am only going by what I heard on the Jim Rome show. He said Vick worked out a deal to serve between 8-12 months ( minus 1 month served ). But the judge doubled it and took the high end of 24 months - 1 served given his recent conduct.

The guy ran an illegal gambling ring. I am sure at some point it dawned on him that he could get caught, kept doing it anyway.

With that. Once he pays his debt to society he should be free to do what he wants.

max, that Yahoo article Buddha linked to a few posts back says this:

Vick should have faced a sentence of 12-18 months after accepting a plea deal to conspiracy charges in August and promising full cooperation, honesty and to "make better decisions."

Instead he made more bad ones, U.S. Attorneys claiming he failed to fully admit or take responsibility for his actions, practiced multiple counts of deception and tested positive for marijuana just weeks after promising the judge he'd avoid drugs.

Those mind-numbing mistakes not only sent his sentencing guidelines to 18-24 months, but played a part in Judge Henry Hudson's decision to lean on the high side and send him away for 23 months

Is it my imagination, or do Federal Prosecutors seem to be going after high profile African-Americans with a vengence these days? The list is long...Vick, Bonds, OJ, Marion Jones, Al Sharpton.

Is it my imagination, or do Federal Prosecutors seem to be going after high profile African-Americans with a vengence these days? The list is long...Vick, Bonds, OJ, Marion Jones, Al Sharpton.

Just your imagination.

This did take center stage over the ref scandle which kind of ticked me off. Now its still the same old same old in the NBA.

Stern should send Vick a thank you.

NBA- ref scandal
NFL- Vick
MLB- Mitchell Report (w/ 20 current/ former Cubs on there!!!)
NHL- crickets

Just your imagination.

I have read that it's unheard of for the Federal Government to get involved in a dog fighting case.

I also find it unusual that of the hundreds of athletes who have been implicated in the performance enhancing drug scandels, the only two who have been or are being prosecuted are Bonds and Jones (for purjury).

And while OJ is clearly a murderer, it is also clear that he was entrapped by the FBI in Vegas.

I think the moral of the story is, if you're a very high profile African-American, you'd better dot every I and cross every T in your personal and professional life, or you'll be prosecuted by the Federal Government.

Yeah. OJ and Vick are in trouble for not dotting their i's.

Or maybe it is just a numbers game. Look at the number of high profile athletes and then look at the percentage that are African-American and how many are other nationalities.

If you are fishing in a barrel with 100 bass, 10 bluegill and 2 frogs; the odds of catching a bass are pretty good!!!

I have read that it's unheard of for the Federal Government to get involved in a dog fighting case.

I also find it unusual that of the hundreds of athletes who have been implicated in the performance enhancing drug scandels, the only two who have been or are being prosecuted are Bonds and Jones (for purjury).

And while OJ is clearly a murderer, it is also clear that he was entrapped by the FBI in Vegas.

I think the moral of the story is, if you're a very high profile African-American, you'd better dot every I and cross every T in your personal and professional life, or you'll be prosecuted by the Federal Government.

I hope you really don't beleive that.

I'm not the only one who believes it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/sports/19rhoden.html?n=Top/News/Sports/Columns/William%20C%20Rhoden

I am only going by what I heard on the Jim Rome show. He said Vick worked out a deal to serve between 8-12 months ( minus 1 month served ). But the judge doubled it and took the high end of 24 months - 1 served given his recent conduct.

The guy ran an illegal gambling ring. I am sure at some point it dawned on him that he could get caught, kept doing it anyway.

With that. Once he pays his debt to society he should be free to do what he wants.

Somehow I don't think he could get a job with

The Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/)

:hoops:

I hope you really don't beleive that.

It is true to some degree. OJ aside, with the exception of maybe Pete Rose, most high profile Whites that get into trouble often have their escapades laughed off or forgotten about relatively quickly. But with individuals like Bonds and/or Vick, the general American public latches on and doesn't let go. No one has seen or heard from Dohnaghy and his scandal since the week Vick's story broke and if you bother to bring it up, you're quickly shushed into going back to the Vick story.

As far as public perception, media coverage, and complete voracity that prosecutors seem to have. The high profile Blacks have a lot more to worry about when it pertains to how their lives can turn out. If people vow to never forget or forgive you for what you've done, you may never get a second chance to do ANYTHING (even outside of sports) ever again.

Just listening to sports talk radio, I hear it all day. The overall anger and resentment towards Black athletes who have legal or personality issues is 5 fold that of what callers call in and rant about when it comes to a lot of non-Black athletes. (For example: You never hear terms like "thug" or "punk" tossed about unless it has to do with Black athletes.)

It is true to some degree. OJ aside, with the exception of maybe Pete Rose, most high profile Whites that get into trouble often have their escapades laughed off or forgotten about relatively quickly.

B. Clinton - Yes

R. Nixon - No

I think liberal pink skins tend to get off easier because they are less likely to be persecuted and prosecuted in the media than conservative pink skins.

:hoops:

LOL @ "pink skins"

I'm thinking that maybe it seems like blacks are getting targeted since we are discussing high profile athletic cases only (OJ, Bonds, Vick, etc.).

If you take a look at the other high profile cases, you could argue that there are a lot of white people being made an example of also. In fact, half of what the criminal justice system does is try to make examples out of people as a deterrent.

Just some other cases that you may have forgotten about:

Andrew Fastow/ conspiracy- 10 years
Mrs. Fastow (WIFE!)/ 1 year for tax charge, failing to report his kick-backs
Ben Glisan Jr. (enron tresurer)/ 5-years
John Rigas (Adelphia)/ 15-years
Tim Rigas (his son)/ 20-years
Bernie Ebbers/ Worldcom- 13-25 years.

I could go on an on. Kozlowski, Martha Stewart, Mark Swartz, Frank Quattrone, Kirk Shelton...

All of these people are serving actual jail time. 15 years is a long time when you are 55 years old.


My point is just that the media latches on to the guys that we talk about because everybody knows who they are.

B. Clinton - Yes

R. Nixon - No

I think liberal pink skins tend to get off easier because they are less likely to be persecuted and prosecuted in the media than conservative pink skins.

:hoops:

I wouldn't call getting impeached for having an affair getting off easy. I can think of a lot of Presidents who had affairs in office who weren't impeached.

George HW Bush, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding and Dwight Eisenhower have all been rumored to have had affairs in office. It was only an issue for Clinton.

I wouldn't call getting impeached for having an affair getting off easy. I can think of a lot of Presidents who had affairs in office who weren't impeached.

George HW Bush, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding and Dwight Eisenhower have all been rumored to have had affairs in office. It was only an issue for Clinton.

The obvious rebuttal is that he wasn't impeached for having an affair.

And I think it had more to do with lying under oath about the affair than about actually having one.

Though to be fair, no congressional investigating committee or special prosecutor investigating any of those other presidents would have even remotely considered asking him whether the fly remained zipped or not. They would have considered that private, tacky perhaps, but still not something to be brought out in public discourse.

And I think it had more to do with lying under oath about the affair than about actually having one.

Though to be fair, no congressional investigating committee or special prosecutor investigating any of those other presidents would have even remotely considered asking him whether the fly remained zipped or not. They would have considered that private, tacky perhaps, but still not something to be brought out in public discourse.

Paula Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Jones)

Here's a pretty thorough rundown. As with most things, it's complicated.

None of those other presidents were ever the defendants in sexual harrassment trials. Clinton defended his contention that she should not be allowed to sue him while he was president and took it all the way to the supreme court... and then lost.

What a mess.

Maybe it has more to do with egos then? When a pink skin gets in to trouble; he usually fades away into the darkness.

Some people might think that lying about WMDs in order to start a war, or lying about nuclear programs in order to start another war, or lying about not torturing people, or lying about revealing the identity of a covert CIA agent is more important than lying about sex.

Remember...I didn't start this conversation.

Some people might think that lying about WMDs in order to start a war, or lying about nuclear programs in order to start another war, or lying about not torturing people, or lying about revealing the identity of a covert CIA agent is more important than lying about sex.

Remember...I didn't start this conversation.

I would agree. You should file a civil suit like Paula did.

This Vick thing is shocking beyond belief. It would get the same attention no matter the ethnic background involved. High profile althlete not only running an illegal gambling ring but chopping up Dogs in his backyard. In some cultures that would be acceptable - this is not one of them. Dogs are highly respected, almost sacred animals here.

He would've gotten only 18 mos. if he didn't bauk about everything. He never came clean. And he was spleafing. [smokin' pot]

It is true to some degree. OJ aside, with the exception of maybe Pete Rose, most high profile Whites that get into trouble often have their escapades laughed off or forgotten about relatively quickly. But with individuals like Bonds and/or Vick, the general American public latches on and doesn't let go. No one has seen or heard from Dohnaghy and his scandal since the week Vick's story broke and if you bother to bring it up, you're quickly shushed into going back to the Vick story.

As far as public perception, media coverage, and complete voracity that prosecutors seem to have. The high profile Blacks have a lot more to worry about when it pertains to how their lives can turn out. If people vow to never forget or forgive you for what you've done, you may never get a second chance to do ANYTHING (even outside of sports) ever again.

Just listening to sports talk radio, I hear it all day. The overall anger and resentment towards Black athletes who have legal or personality issues is 5 fold that of what callers call in and rant about when it comes to a lot of non-Black athletes. (For example: You never hear terms like "thug" or "punk" tossed about unless it has to do with Black athletes.)

Seems the trend continues. Marion Jones just got 6 months in the clink. While baseball's offenders were simply allowed to "open the discussion" with no punishments handed out.

Oh, and Tiger Woods should be lynched (but, it's no big deal).

Seems the trend continues. Marion Jones just got 6 months in the clink. While baseball's offenders were simply allowed to "open the discussion" with no punishments handed out.
From what I understand Marion got term for lying to investigators, not for using the steroids.

From what I understand Marion got term for lying to investigators, not for using the steroids.

Exactly. Bonds wasn't the only one questioned by investigators (and/or allegedly lied), but he's the only one being prosecuted.

AND

She was severely punished by her sport. Baseball has done exactly the opposite.

Track and field has had severe repercussions in place for many years now for steroid users, but baseball didn't have ANY policy about it until just a few years ago, so I don't think the lack of retroactive punishments in baseball can really be compared to track and field.

As far as lying to investigators, it'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with Clemens. It seems extremely likely that the whole thing with him vs. his trainer will end up with one or the other being totally discredited for lying in a huge way, and quite possibly under oath, so let's see how that one plays out.

Exactly. Bonds wasn't the only one questioned by investigators (and/or allegedly lied), but he's the only one being prosecuted.

AND

She was severely punished by her sport. Baseball has done exactly the opposite.
I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that track and field has been fighting doping for a long time, and there were checks and balances in place even before MLB even started talking about it. In MLB taking steroids, at least until recently, wasn't considered as bad and wasn't in the center of attention.

Seems the trend continues. Marion Jones just got 6 months in the clink. While baseball's offenders were simply allowed to "open the discussion" with no punishments handed out.

Oh, and Tiger Woods should be lynched (but, it's no big deal).


The comment by the golf channel lady was very inappropriate. Knowing the history of lynchings and how they were a common practice for so long signifies how very few people really know the history of our country. With many journalists both black and white supporting this lady, I feel comfortable stating that she's not a racist........just ignorant.
Her two week suspension was a fair punishment, based on her quick apology........


I was hoping that Marion would get a suspended sentence. Not sure of the chronology of events in her situation, but she seemed heartfully sorry for what she did..............

Seems the trend continues. Marion Jones just got 6 months in the clink. While baseball's offenders were simply allowed to "open the discussion" with no punishments handed out.

Oh, and Tiger Woods should be lynched (but, it's no big deal).



But her plea deals were triggered not by her lying about drug use but by her involvement in the bank-fraud scheme. Prosecutors for the United States attorneys office in the Southern District of New York have said they had ample evidence, including her signature on the $25,000 check and the testimony of other defendants in the case, many of whom have already pleaded guilty.


The strength of the government’s evidence in that case was used to persuade Jones to plead guilty to the false statements to federal prosecutors in the Northern District of California, which has been leading the investigation of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/b/bay_area_laboratory_cooperative/index.html?inline=nyt-org) for the past five years.
It appears to me that her attorney worked a good deal for her by getting Jones to plead guilty to the high profile crime of illegal steroid use. By doing this she was able to get a considerable reduction in time for her involvement in a bank-fraud scheme, which is federal crime.

Marion Jones Sentenced to Six Months in Prison - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/sports/othersports/11cnd-jones.html?em&ex=1200200400&en=f325009892494247&ei=5087%0A)

It still just bothers me why people have to go to jail for lying about using something that is technically not illegal, but maybe banned. :yellowprison:

Yeah it is cheating in trying get an advantage, but there must be something contractually written that indicates that if you cheat, then you are fired or fined (give moneys, trophys back etc.) But going to the pokey when folks are out there killing people and living free???

No one wants to admit that they cheated, but if the goverment gets involved in the questioning, then you better spill the beans (Mr. Clemens) or you are going to jail:jail:

It still just bothers me why people have to go to jail for lying about using something that is technically not illegal, but maybe banned. :yellowprison:

Yeah it is cheating in trying get an advantage, but there must be something contractually written that indicates that if you cheat, then you are fired or fined (give moneys, trophys back etc.) But going to the pokey when folks are out there killing people and living free???

No one wants to admit that they cheated, but if the goverment gets involved in the questioning, then you better spill the beans (Mr. Clemens) or you are going to jail:jail:


I've always believed that prison is for violent criminals who need deserved rehibilitation. Those who are non-violent and just commit white collar crime should be forced to pay restitution. Too many of these criminals just don't have to pay back their targets........

I've always believed that prison is for violent criminals who need deserved rehibilitation. Those who are non-violent and just commit white collar crime should be forced to pay restitution. Too many of these criminals just don't have to pay back their targets........

Thats true and I agree, but one must also realise that this is 'professional' sport. That means it is a job, therefore there should be no real difference between a corporation boss committing fraud and going to jail and a sportsperson committing fraud by cheating IMO.

With Marion it was mostly the check fraud left over.
The powers that be aren't done with Lemon, Pettite and the rest. Don't stay tuned it will find you.

it's reasonable i was expecting more though