At Memphis Dec. 11th, 8:00 PM

TV - FSN Detroit, NBALP

The Pistons visit Darko and the dissapointing Grizzlies on the front end of a back to back. Might be a high scoring affair as the Griz allow their opponents to score just over 105 ppg, while scoring 103 ppg.

At Memphis Dec. 11th, 8:00 PM

TV - FSN Detroit, NBALP

The Pistons visit Darko and the dissapointing Grizzlies on the front end of a back to back. Might be a high scoring affair as the Griz allow their opponents to score just over 105 ppg, while scoring 103 ppg.

If we let Gasol and our ex HVC get on the offensive boards, we will be in trouble. Most of the games we lost, offensive rebounding by our opponents has always been pretty easy.

Darko looked gimpy the last 2 games. He can't jump or shoot because of the ankle and thumb. Gasol has been playing with some passion though.

Hopefully Tayshaun is out of his shooting slump. Good news is that this season Rip, Tay, and CB have all had stretches where their shooting has been off, yet we are stll playing .700 ball after 20 games....a testament to team depth and talent.

Rasheed Wallace did not attend the Pistons' shoot-around at FedEx Forum Tuesday morning. Coach Flip Saunders said Wallace stayed at the hotel with flu-like symptoms. His playing status will be determined at game time, but Saunders said that because he missed shoot-around, he most likely would not start.
Either Nazr Mohammed or Jason Maxiell would start in his place.


Pistons' Rasheed Wallace ill, unlikely to start vs. Grizzlies (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/UPDATE/712110442/1361)

Minutes for AJ anyone?

sheed just didn't wanna get lit up by darko:pound:

sheed just didn't wanna get lit up by darko:pound:
Or maybe he just wanted to see AJ vs. Darko? :gun1:

Pistons' Rasheed Wallace ill, unlikely to start vs. Grizzlies (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/UPDATE/712110442/1361)

Minutes for AJ anyone?

nope. amir's minute's won't be increased but jmax will go for 20 and 10. i've watched memphis a lot this season and outside of darko their interior defense is very suspect. if darko is checking jmax look for a lot of tip dunks from jmax as darko usually helps the perimeter players who can't stop dribble penetration.

nope. amir's minute's won't be increased but jmax will go for 20 and 10. i've watched memphis a lot this season and outside of darko their interior defense is very suspect. if darko is checking jmax look for a lot of tip dunks from jmax as darko usually helps the perimeter players who can't stop dribble penetration.

If Maxey continues his pattern of getting into early foul trouble when he starts AJ could get some non-garbage time burn tonight. Nazmo better be ready to bring his A game vs Darko.

:hoops:

nope. amir's minute's won't be increased but jmax will go for 20 and 10. i've watched memphis a lot this season and outside of darko their interior defense is very suspect. if darko is checking jmax look for a lot of tip dunks from jmax as darko usually helps the perimeter players who can't stop dribble penetration.
Will we dribble penetrate?

Will we dribble penetrate?

What is dribble penetrate? Is that even legal?

What is dribble penetrate? Is that even legal?
lmao, reminds me of a post basketbills made in response to the legendary "half court shot" post on the DetNews. It was at least PG-13. :)

I won't be around tonight, so would one of the good staff folks open chat for the game please? :)

Really looking forward to seeing, JuanCarlosNavarro, Rudy Gay Vs. Tayshaun and DMC. If Sheed doesn't play I hope that AJ gets some serious burn tonight, this game will be played too fast for Nazr. I also feel as if this is a team where Flip Jr could be very effective.

Chat's open!

I give up on Amir. No matter how many points NazMo gives the other team, Flip will never play him.

bla

I give up on Amir. No matter how many points NazMo gives the other team, Flip will never play him.

bla
Patience grasshopper

Pistons started off hot tonight, up 37-22 after the first quarter, but ended up with a fairly lackluster win as the Grizzlies somehow stayed in it for most of the 4th quarter, despite never getting closer than 8. Rip hit a bunch of big shots in the 4th to keep the lead up, and then CB got it done once he came back in late after Lindsey almost singlehandedly kept Memphis in it. Darko was hot early, 6-10 in the first quarter, but he barely did anything the rest of the game.

Darko was hot early, 6-10 in the first quarter, but he barely did anything the rest of the game.

Obviously you didn`t study this game close enough!!!!!

Flip subbed in the 2nd half assuming a blowout on the horizon. Bad move. Mins to AA and FlipJr in the 2nd half would have produced a blowout, since we didn't get a blowout....as the team began settling for outside Jumpers...a clear sign of fatigue....no AA in the 2nd half, even though he was AWESOME in the 1st half.....:director:......HEY FLIP!!
.........:gun1::nerd2:....get a sub pattern for the 2nd half, we're not going to blow away every team.

Obviously you didn`t study this game close enough!!!!!
Obviously....I'll prove DMC's contribution once I watch the tape 2x's in slow motion, frame by frame.

A seventh game out of 8 where we had a 20 point plus lead. Pretty impressive. We won this one by slaughtering them in the fast break department. Billups with 25 points and 14 assists got player of the game. Rip just could not miss in the first half. The pair had about 40 points by half-time. Meanwhile JMAX shot 7 for 8 in this one, including one made outside shot. JMAX continues to be about our only offensive rebound attack.


Prince managed 19 points, but on very poor shooting. He just can't hit an outside shot, although I think he did hit one of about 6 outside shots tonight.


Sheed ended up gettng 30 minutes even though he came off the bench. Sheed could not hit a longrange shot, with everything coming up well short, but he did hit some key shots in closer. Both Maxiell and Dyess were in foul trouble. Mohammed played to end the 2nd half, and extensively in the 2nd half.


Dyess did very little in this one.


Hayes barely did a thing.


Amir, despite Sheed almost sitting this one out, despite foul trouble to both Maxiell and Dyess, did not play, coaches decision. Basically making a liar out of Dumars who said this kind of thing would not happen. I would sure like it if Dumars stepped in, tonight, and restated his policy about Amir playing. Remember, according to Dumars, Dyess is starting because he has Amir and JMAX to provide a spark off the bench. Well Mr. Dumars, it ain't happening. If you care to know why so few fans show up for the games, look no further than the disappointment so many fans feel about the youngs not getting time.


A bit about the other team. Two guys barely scored for Memphis in this one, and never played a bit of D between the two, yet they start. Lowry, Warrick, and Navarro did very well, but none of them get to start. This team is a definite case of a coach holding his team back. So at least its not just the Pistons, and at least for us its just looming failure in the playoffs. At least we are winning these meaningless regular season games, and will be in the playoffs.


Lowry is not that bad a defender, but he got owned by Billups, and the Pistons needed that scoring to stay ahead in this one.
Darko came out great, but he was very limited by an ankle injury and never did score after his 12 in the first 8 minutes of the game.

Mohammed played, committed fouls, did not score, and got a few rebounds. A nice outlet pass from him is about all we got positive from him.


Afflalo looked awesome in the 1st half, twice getting to the basket very well for scores. And yet, with another game tomorro night to play, Rip was put back into the game for Afflalo with 6 minutes still to go in the 2nd quarter. Atrocious coaching. Meaningless, pointless coaching. Hey, this is not just my opinion. Its what I hear from other fans. Sure we won the game, but did we get any more prepared for the playoffs? Did we get ourselves prepared to play Houston tomorro night? Flip ain't even looking forward one day, let alone to the playoffs.

^

It's baffling how clueless Flip is. Afflalo was a +11 and we were doing fantastic with him in there. Three thing i noticed; he has great hanldles; he attacks the basket; and he rebounds. I saw him sky for 2 he never should have gotten. It's exactly what we need and it's not coincendental that we look so good with him in.

Warrick was owning us. A long, athletic, shot-blocker with a few nice post moves; Hmm . . . ? I could've sworn we had one of those. Nazr continues to suck.

The starters played big minutes on the 1st night of a back-to-back. Sheed played 30 even though he looked sick as hell. Almost everything he threw up was short.

I'm sick of yelling at the TV about stupid sub patterns.

Afflalo did look pretty good tonight. Very surprised that he couldn't get back out there.

Overall, one of the most boring games of the year I thought. Mainly because we got off to such a big lead and then toyed with them the whole time with the starters playing most of the game... needlessly.

Nazr and Lindsey are so unproductive it is amazing.

What could possibly be going on in that morning shoot around that would cause Sheed to be well enough to play but not able to start? Flipper is just hard to figure out sometimes.

Nazr and Lindsey are so unproductive it is amazing.

We will all get to see them be unproductive for the rest of the year. Count on it.

:hoops:

Afflalo did look pretty good tonight. Very surprised that he couldn't get back out there.

And you call yourself a Piston fan. In chat we all knew that as awesome as AA played their was no way the kid was geting back in the game. I'll be shocked if he plays tomarrow.

See you mere mortals are totally incapable of understanding the coaching genius of Flip Saunders. Flip already knows through visions that his secret assistant coach (Madam Cleo) has, what Amir and AA are going to do on the floor when he puts them out there. Madam Cleo had a vision of AA turning the ball over 17 straight times in the 2nd half so Flip kept him on the bench and secured a win for us. Madam Cleo has also told Flip of the vision she had where Amir turns both his ankles while dunking the ball in the wrong basket. See Flip and Madam Cleo have all this figured out. Be patient.......The return of Rufus Henry is on the horizon.

Seems like a blowout but the Pistons did all their damage in the 1st quarter and it was pretty even after that. Memphis won the 2nd and 4th quarters.

41 mins for Rip and 38 for Billups is too much on the 1st of a back to back.

Looks like the sub patterns are starting to settle on Hunter and Mohammed being a part. They both played around 20 mins combined. Hunter made the only shot between them and Modamed had 3 boards and a block. Both had 1 steal a piece.

Heck of a game by Billups. It was fun watching him out there with Rip hitting every shot. Just probably did not need to see them so much. Maxiel had a great game.

I honestly can't believe that Flip could be this incompetent. Afflalo was a beast out there in limited minutes. Sparking the D, the fastbreak, and even grabbing a couple big defensive boards. Yet he doesn't even get a glance in the 2nd half. Instead, Rip plays 42 minutes in a game that was separated by 15-20 most of the time.

And I know the Lindsey backers out there (the few remaining) talk up his D, but his D is pretty bad outside of about 1 steal a week. He's a foul machine who can't shoot, and can't run an offense or the fast break. Why does he play? Flip Murray doesn't look too bad at the moment. At least he'd go on a scoring binge once a week or so.

And Nazr.... oh Nazr. How he manages to get 10 minutes of playing time almost every game boggles my mind. Tonight he got most of his minutes with Sheed while the Grizzlies had Gasol and Warrick on the floor. Yes, Warrick. You know, 6 foot 9", 215 pound super-athletic power forward. Sounds like someone I know on our team, but I can't remember his name, because he doesn't play!. Yea, and the mismatch of having unathletic vets on him resulted in 17/6 in 17 minutes. Brilliant.

It's so frustrating that this team has so much promise, yet nothing will come of it because of a coach, and complacent management.

This is a litmus test game...another one that Flip Sr. failed. If you aren't going to play Amir and give Afflalo more burn against the Griz...when are you going to play them? I mean it's Memphis for crying out loud. Flip coaches these games like every one is a playoff game and he's already coaching scared.

I got home from an appointment in the middle of the second quarter and was aghast to see no Amir. And more Lindsay and Nazr. It's just infuriating. And boring basketball as well, in spite of the numbers that were put up by The Best BackCourt in the NBA. I think that Flip Sr. thinks he is honoring his promise to Joe to play the younguns by playing Maxiell (who really is the only thing making this team interesting anymore). I've watched every game and will continue to. But I almost think Amir should be sent back down to the D-League (can he be). He's in purgatory on our bench. Yes I remember that it was said that they wanted to bring him along slowly, but come on this is Memphis we played tonight. NO AMIR?!

I'm so tired of watching the Best Starting Four play together. We need our bench to get minutes. Our Best Starting Four can not win a championship this year. It's going to take our bench to be confident and ready at playoff time. All of them.

P.S. And Sheed even had the flu? Good Lord. I mean so what if we lose a few games because Amir isn't quite ready. If that's the worst that happens, we still go to the playoffs with an Amir that can help us. It seems so obvious.

P.S. And Sheed even had the flu? Good Lord. I mean so what if we lose a few games because Amir isn't quite ready. If that's the worst that happens, we still go to the playoffs with an Amir that can help us. It seems so obvious.[/quote]

Well, this forum seems to know "a recipe of a sucessful development". If depeloping youngs seems to be so easy, why, oh why coaches are not using this formula? Every coach woud obviously like fast-developed rooks.

Why there are so many struggling teams and so few contenders? Because nobody actually knows a certain "development recipe". In a many rebuilding teams noobs get more burn, but results are varied and usually they du not "bring it" during their firs 2-3 years.

And this "hurried development" is plain wishful thinking here.

P.S. And Sheed even had the flu? Good Lord. I mean so what if we lose a few games because Amir isn't quite ready. If that's the worst that happens, we still go to the playoffs with an Amir that can help us. It seems so obvious.[/quote]

Well, this forum seems to know "a recipe of a sucessful development". If depeloping youngs seems to be so easy, why, oh why coaches are not using this formula? Every coach would obviously like fast-developed rooks.

Why there are so many struggling teams and so few contenders?

Because nobody actually knows a certain "development recipe". In a many rebuilding teams noobs get more burn, but results are varied and usually they do not "bring it" during their firs 2-3 years.

And this "hurried development" is a plain wishful thinking here.

Darko has been a victim of fashion before, but this new haircut takes the cake. He looks like a shift foreman at a German ball bearing plant.

Really nice game from Affalo. Like most above, no idea why he did not play more on the first night of a back to back that involved a Memphis - Houston flight after the game.

And yes beloved announcers, Iavaroni did start for that '83 Sixers team, but only to take take up some time before Bobby Jones could come in. His less than 20 MPG didn't exactly guarantee the 'ship that year. All right, I'm down on the Marc-ster because we both dated the same girl in college. Right before she decided we weren't smart enough for her and she transferred to Princeton. But, I'm not bitter... Enough though it was thirty years ago...

boring game. afflalo should've gotten more PT. hopefully flip isn't caving into rip wanting more minutes, but rip *was* hot tonight and playing very well. would've liked to see AJ against similar competition, but oh well. unfortunately for amir, nazr's been playing well.

maxiell is a beast. i love his little tricky move that he does when going for an offensive rebound. basically he runs into the lane and bumps the opposing player, but he does it while keeping his head up looking at the ball, so the foul never gets called. this gives him a clear board and an easy putback.

if you want to know what i mean, which maxiell vs. cleveland in that ECF game last year, when he delivers a 'facial' on lebron james. he shoves pavlovic out of the way to get the board, and absolutely no one notices. he did the same thing last night against darko.

i just hope everyone continues to not notice. :)

Because nobody actually knows a certain "development recipe". In a many rebuilding teams noobs get more burn, but results are varied and usually they do not "bring it" during their firs 2-3 years.

And this "hurried development" is a plain wishful thinking here.

There may not be a development recipe but history has shown over and over that you do not get development without game time. We want to come to the playoff knowing that we gave amir every opportunity to learn the game...to become a viable option when we need it.

Some people are saying 'be patient' but our window of opportunity is short. Maybe some people expected Amir to explode on the scene...that was unrealistic. It's equally unrealistic to believe he will explode a few months later with less opportunities to play.

The team is coming along just like previous years but instead of Delfino and Maxiell getting scant minutes, its Afflalo and Amir.

boring game. afflalo should've gotten more PT. hopefully flip isn't caving into rip wanting more minutes, but rip *was* hot tonight and playing very well. would've liked to see AJ against similar competition, but oh well. unfortunately for amir, nazr's been playing well.

maxiell is a beast. i love his little tricky move that he does when going for an offensive rebound. basically he runs into the lane and bumps the opposing player, but he does it while keeping his head up looking at the ball, so the foul never gets called. this gives him a clear board and an easy putback.

if you want to know what i mean, which maxiell vs. cleveland in that ECF game last year, when he delivers a 'facial' on lebron james. he shoves pavlovic out of the way to get the board, and absolutely no one notices. he did the same thing last night against darko.

i just hope everyone continues to not notice. :)

If D Stern read this forum, we will be in trouble.

First. The first quarter offensive game plan was awesome. IT wasn't fueled by all jumpers, but rather the motion offense that Flip has been preaching finally looks like it is coming into fruition. A lot of ball movement and easy lay-ups. No comment on the sub patterns, although I think Flip was coaching for a quarter of garbage time and the starters ruined it.

Watching that game last night reminded me what happens when a player gets playing time.

Rudy Gay and Darko looked good and that is what happens when you get playing time and are allowed to fail.

We need to get Amir floor time immediately. The longer we wait the more difficult it will be. He may not be our savior in the play offs this year by playing more now, but he may be next year when we are trying to repeat.

There is no substitution for real game time training.

Lets hope that Joe reads this forum. He needs to have another serious talk with Flip about the playing time that rookies get. There's a pattern here that Amir doesn't get into the games unless it's garbage time. Afflalo gets 5-6 min in the 2nd quarter and doesn't come back unless it's garbage time. That's Flip's substitution pattern.

I think the frusterating thing is how much of an Impact they kept saying Amir would have this season. You get all excited about that. They gave him a nice contract to out-bid SanAntonio, yet he is still treated as a rookie. Its his 3rd year - time to play.

If D Stern read this forum, we will be in trouble.

He spends all his free time on the Lebron forum.

Looking at the game again a few things jumped out. In the 1st quarter the starters built a lead, the bench extended a lead in the 2nd qtr and the starters came back in (totally disinterested, up by 20+) and surrendered the blowout. In the third qtr the starters were very bored and lost the chance at a blowout. This is why the bench guys are so important, Jarvis, AA, Max are never bored and lethargical. Those guys are playing for contracts and a chance to show that they belong in this league. Our Starters are all RICH, they've all gotten the big contract, Rasheed got it 2x's, Dyess got the BIG$$ in Denver, Rip, Tay, and Chauncey have all been broke off with the $$$$$, they have nothing to prove up 20 pts to a bad Memphis team and they are going to coast. AA, Max, Jarvis are not going to coast, they got alot to prove and they got a lot at stake. Should have subbed for the Rich starters in the 3rd qtr to keep up the teams intensity.

I agree with that. The reason that it was boring to watch was that it was obvious that the players were bored to be on the floor with such a lead.

Our bench guys would have loved it.

We've been harping on Flip for that ever since the year began. Why not give AA minutes in the second half, why not put AJ on the floor with spot minutes here and there? Heck, I'd rather see Flip Jr. on the court in a situation like that. At least he makes the game fun.

All this wining albout PT for youngens.
Piston Protocol demands punking of youngens.
I hope Amir has no ego and tuffs it out for 3 more grouling years. I figure that is his PT frame.
Rebound and Defense Amir.
We must break his will like YKW.