Memphis Dec 21 8PM

tv: FSN

Darko and his lottery bound Griz team come to the Palace to match wits with the Pistons. They still have that Gasol guy which should make things interesting.

Have to love these Friday night games no matter the level of competition.

Memphis Dec 21 8PM

tv: FSN

Darko and his lottery bound Griz team come to the Palace to match wits with the Pistons. They still have that Gasol guy which should make things interesting.

Have to love these Friday night games no matter the level of competition.

I wonder if Pistons would be interested enough in that game to show up. Hopefully lots of bench play in that one.

Gasol has been out of action. They still have Rudy Gay, would love to see Tay get his Cajones back by dominating Rudy Gay on both ends of the floor. Maybe we'll see Amir in this game..........They may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.......

Memphis has lost a lot of close games, so they aren't quite as bad as you would think.

Rudy is taking and making shots like a superstar player. I.e. one on one moves that are well guarded where he just gets the ball in the hoop. He's going through that process right now that will make him a true force in the future. He's playing a ton of minutes for a bad team and he can take any shot he feels like.

Miller has been overly unselfish. Looks like he decided to take some shots last night.

Navarro- he was very tentative at first and wasn't getting regular minutes, but now it seems as though he is taking over. Very deadly 3-point shooter when the pressure is on.

Darko, seems like he has a lack of confidence lately. I would say that it is primarily because he tried to play through injuries and got used to not looking for opportunities on the offensive end. Still, he can shut down the paint when he's active. Against us, that won't matter, cause we spread it out so much.

All the rest of their guys- young and streaky.

Now that Hot Rod is good to go will he make his debut against the Griz or will it be on Sunday against the Rockets, given that Flipper has said on numerous occasions that Hot Rod will need at least a couple of contact practices before being put on the court during an actual game.

I think it would be ironic if he made his NBA debut against Darko since we got the draft pick that eventually allowed us to draft him for Darko,
:hoops:

This game is just what is needed after a such a high stress outing at the Garden. Going against the Swiss Cheese Griz will seem like a walk in the park on the ofensive end.

Now that Hot Rod is good to go will he make his debut against the Griz or will it be on Sunday against the Rockets, given that Flipper has said on numerous occasions that Hot Rod will need at least a couple of contact practices before being put on the court during an actual game.

I think it would be ironic if he made his NBA debut against Darko since we got the draft pick that eventually allowed us to draft him for Darko,
:hoops:
Out of 30 teams in the league we are by far and away a helluva lot better than 15 of them, and clearly better than 9 of the remaining 15,but there's a real dog-fight going on between the top 6 teams in the league (Det, Bos, Orl, SA, Dal,Phx). I say that to say this, for us half of the gosh-darn league is nothing more than practice time when we play against them. Memphis is a team that Amir and Stuckey should always get mins against. Earth to Flip, we're trying to win a Title.

Out of 30 teams in the league we are by far and away a helluva lot better than 15 of them, and clearly better than 9 of the remaining 15,but there's a real dog-fight going on between the top 6 teams in the league (Det, Bos, Orl, SA, Dal,Phx). I say that to say this, for us half of the gosh-darn league is nothing more than practice time when we play against them. Memphis is a team that Amir and Stuckey should always get mins against. Earth to Flip, we're trying to win a Title.


Don't forget the Lakers.

:hoops:

Don't forget the Lakers.

:hoops:
They are a year or 2 away, although Farmar is scary good as well as Bynum. I'm starting to think that the UCLA guys are about as good as it gets for ready-mix NBA players, just add contract. They're kinda like Lloyd Carr's wolverines, OK in college, boring system, put it was a pro-style system where guys were ready for the NFL immediately, as oppossed to Spurriers gimmicks in Florida back in the day.

Could be interesting, though. They just beat Orlando in Orlando, and San Antonio.

They would like to make it 3 straight against top teams in a week.

Wouldn't that be a shocker??

Welcome back Lazyberbs...

Here is an update on Gasol.


Dec 19 Gasol (toe) plans on practicing with the Grizzlies Thursday in hopes of returning to the team in time for their game Friday against the Pistons, the Memphis Commercial Appeal reports.
Recommendation: "They told me it was going to be sore and a little painful. But I want to get back out there and help my teammates," Gasol said. Expect him to return to the lineup Friday, but be somewhat less effective than usual at first.


Courtesy of
Pau Gasol - Memphis Grizzlies - News - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3513/news;_ylt=AisaglWzQvGxA52h9b2EiQekvLYF)

okay so, our ticket guy called us the other day and asked if we wanted to upgrade our seats tonight for free. we said sure. where am i going to be sitting? section VIP D, as in courtside, row 3, seats 9 and 10 from the middle !!!! WOOHOO!!!! it's across from the visitor's bench i believe, so you might see the back of my Prince jersey on TV :D

aaaand roscoe, i finally bought a new digital camera and i will be taking it to the game, so i'll be getting plenty of pictures!!

What a cool surpise. Take some pics and have a great time.

Get us some good Darko pics, Hog!

How about that snazzy new timer that is accurate no matter what time zone you're in?

Get us some good Darko pics, Hog!


And AutoMotion too!!:eyebrows:

How about that snazzy new timer that is accurate no matter what time zone you're in?

Looks great, Low. I thought it might have been just for the Celtics game, since it was such a big event, but is it going to be up there for every game? That's definitely cool, although it's a little weird seeing it now after it debuted for that huge matchup. Are you ready to face the Grizzlies? :sssh:

The clock be working here in the Pacific time zone.

:hoops:

Looks great, Low. I thought it might have been just for the Celtics game, since it was such a big event, but is it going to be up there for every game? That's definitely cool, although it's a little weird seeing it now after it debuted for that huge matchup. Are you ready to face the Grizzlies? :sssh:

You GOTTA be pumped for Darko Vader Strikes Back!

Chat is open!


http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

+

First-half observations:

Sheed has built several houses in the first half with all his bricks.

Remember the song "Rudie Can't Fail" by the Clash? I like this tune better: "Rudy Can't Jam."

Glad to see Jarvis finally made a shot. Hunta still looking good. Amir looked lost to me in the first half.

One thing I hope to find under the tree at Christmas: Tay's offensive game.

I'm beginning to think the NBA's structured offense is restricting Darko's free-wheeling game.

^

I'm starting to worry about him. He looks off. Tired, hurt, ? It doesn't help that he's not taking/getting good looks either.

edited to add;
That was meant to be about Sheed, but i guess it applies to Tay too.

One thing I hope to find under the tree at Christmas: Tay's offensive game.

Actually, Tay did OK in the first half. 4 of 6 for 10 points. My bad. Sorry, Tay. :MusicBigGrin:

Random thoughts:

Clearly, AA was great tonight. The kid is SMART.

Rodney Stuckey makes his regular-season debut and hits his second shot.

Amir Johnson is pretty good - at commiting fouls.

Suddenly, the Pistons bench has leapers and penetrators.

One thing I don't understand: When Memphis began to fall behind, why didn't Iavoroni unleash Darko? Seemed like a good time to do it.

Brezec has more mobility and hustle than Webber.

Pistons let the Grizz hang around in the first half before blowing it open in the second. Odd game for CB...2-10 from the floor, but 10-11 from the line with 7 assists and no turnovers. He got the line several times in the 3rd quarter to help extend the lead to double digits.

Stuckey made his debut in garbage time and made some nice plays in the last 6 minutes, scoring off a rebound on his first miss and finding Jarvis in transition. Amir played several "real" minutes in the first half with JMax in foul trouble, but unfortunately he didn't make any sort of impact. The biggest story of the game was Afflalo, playing brilliantly well in regular minutes as well as in garbage time. He was incredibly aggressive going to the basket and making things happen in transition, played his usual strong D, got several boards, converted a bunch at the FT line (6-7)...it was awesome!

For the Grizz, our favorite Serbian gangsta struggled with only 2 points and 4 turnovers. Rudy Gay hit some tough shots but also somehow managed to miss two wide open dunks, of both varieties, one-handed and two-handed. The guy's got a lot of talent, but he somehow can't seem to dunk against the Pistons!

did you notice, whether flip jr was dressed or not? Flip jr surely demands a trade...

Will be interesting to see how lee and buddahfan try to find some "important" negativities, somehow they have to justify ther usual "fire flip" chant, right?

I didn't see Flip Jr., but he must have been in street clothes. All 12 active players for the Pistons played tonight, and with Stuckey finally getting out there, Flip Jr. was inactive along with Herrmann and Samb.

I didn't see Flip Jr., but he must have been in street clothes. All 12 active players for the Pistons played tonight, and with Stuckey finally getting out there, Flip Jr. was inactive along with Herrmann and Samb.

I think Cheikh got removed from the Mad Ants roster because D league teams can not carry players that are injured.

:hoops:

Pistons came out shooting in the first 8 minutes to build a 9 pt lead, but then stunk up the joint for the rest of the half comong back to take a 4 pt lead at the half. Billups and Sheed were 2-13 in the first half missing 6 3 balls between them. the grizz had 10 turnovers in the first half so that was one reason why the Pistons were able to hold on to the lead.

The pistons stretched it out to a 14 point lead at the end of three as AA came off the bench to spark a run. His defense and slashing offense work up the crowd and the disintrested Piston starters and garbage time officially started the 7 min mark of the 4th qtr.

Stuckey got his first official pt and scored bucket got a board and 2 assists. Nothing spectacular, but when everyone on the floor for both teams are fighting for minutes it hard to get some consistency out there. Afflolo played 20 minutes and half of that was with the starters. Amir looked kind of lost out there tonight so he definitely needs more PT to become effective.

Pistons defense held the Grizz to 34 % shooting and 67 points as Rudy Gay missed several Dunks on 4-14 shooting...

I didn't see Flip Jr., but he must have been in street clothes. All 12 active players for the Pistons played tonight, and with Stuckey finally getting out there, Flip Jr. was inactive along with Herrmann and Samb.


I kept looking at the back of the bench looking for Flip jr, but didn't see him back there sitting with Fabio. Maybe he thought he was going to be on the active roster and didn't bring a sports jacket and had to watch the game from the locker room???:)

I think Cheikh got removed from the Mad Ants roster because D league teams can not carry players that are injured.

Yeah, although either way, whether he's actually playing in the D League or not, he still counts for one of the 15 roster spots.

I kept looking at the back of the bench looking for Flip jr, but didn't see him back there sitting with Fabio. Maybe he thought he was going to be on the active roster and didn't bring a sports jacket and had to watch the game from the locker room???:)

But if that was the case, couldn't he just borrow one from Chauncey? :laugh:

But if that was the case, couldn't he just borrow one from Chauncey? :laugh:


Dupree took all of the extra jackets with him:pound:

Yeah, although either way, whether he's actually playing in the D League or not, he still counts for one of the 15 roster spots.

That is correct. He has a contract

:hoops:

Brezec > Mohammed, WHerrmann should get a chance instead Hayes.

I kept looking at the back of the bench looking for Flip jr, but didn't see him back there sitting with Fabio. Maybe he thought he was going to be on the active roster and didn't bring a sports jacket and had to watch the game from the locker room???:)

IIRC, nazmo before trade was also missing from bench...

Amir looked kind of lost out there tonight so he definitely needs more PT to become effective.


Given that he had the most rebounds per minute played of all of our players, just imagine how awesome he will be when he doesn't look lost out there.

:hoops:

I still think Amir has played well more often than not when he's gotten minutes, so hopefully he'll make an impact the next time he gets a chance.

Brezec > Mohammed, WHerrmann should get a chance instead Hayes.

I believe Herrmann is a pass through and won't get minutes unless Prince or Hayes are injured and won't be back next year.

Brezec has a chance to stick for next year.

:hoops:

Given that he had the most rebounds per minute played of all of our players, just imagine how awesome he will be when he doesn't look lost out there.

:hoops:
He was actually better in the second half. Probably was not used to playing in the first half and his game clock wasn't on yet:)

I still think Amir has played well more often than not when he's gotten minutes, so hopefully he'll make an impact the next time he gets a chance.

Getting more rebounds per minute played is making an impact, especially when you consider Dyess is really are only other rebounder (Sheed and Maxey are very inconsistent on the boards), so we need a guy who can get over 10 rebounds a game, which AJ will once his minutes get up to 30 or so.

:hoops:

I believe Herrmann is a pass through and won't get minutes unless Prince or Hayes are injured and won't be back next year.

Brezec has a chance to stick for next year.

:hoops:

Walter Herrmann - Detroit Pistons - Split Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4207/splits?year=2006&type=Fielding)

Look for march and april... one must be in love with Hayes, not to give WH a shot at least.
JH behaves himself like a starter, jet he does everything worse...:)

Walter Herrmann - Detroit Pistons - Split Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4207/splits?year=2006&type=Fielding)

Look for march and april... one must be in love with Hayes, not to give WH a shot at least.
JH behaves himself like a starter, jet he does everything worse...:)

Actually I am not a big Hayes fan. But the situation is far more complicated and has been discussed over the years on the forum.

I wish Herrmann the best of luck, but I just don't think he will be around next year or even get many minutes this year.

:hoops:

We played very good defense in the second half especially in the last quarter. That shows that our second unit is serious about playing the right way, regardless of whom they are playing.

:hoops:

I thought this one would be a letdown game after the Boston win. But hey nice way for the Pistons to pull away in the 2nd half.

1. Afflalo was great. Defense. Penetration. Passing. Finishing. The kid is good and he is a keeper. Piston mold. Not flashy but really nice to watch.

2. Stuckey in his first game. Got his firsts - points, rebounds and assists. Most importantly he got time, even if it was garbage time.

3. Amir. Not as active in this one. He had time once JMax went to the bench with 3 fouls but didn't play with as much energy as we know he can play with. It seemed so...Darko-ish.

4. Tay did ok IMO. Not impressive, not bad either. He didn't stand out yet he did a good job.

5. Chauncey and Rip. The guards still got the job done, though not that great a shooting night from CNote.

6. Hunter still has something. He may not be the best shooter, the best backup point and not much of a floor general, but he still can defend, and that's how he helps these guys. He ups the intensity on defense. Loved that steal from Stromile.

7. Hayes. Well, it's nice to see him hit a shot. He's ok. Not as effective as he was early in the season but a nice shooter on the bench, even if he is as streaky as the best of them. He's time and impact has gone down maybe due to the emergence of Afflalo.

8. Sheed and Dice. Didn't stand out to me. Though they both played good defense. They produced.

9. JMax. Foul trouble. But he did have that nice jam off the feed from Dyess.

10. Primoz. Primoz. Primoz. In one play, he showed he wanted to be here. He dove for the ball that had been knocked away and tapped it to Afflalo for an assist on a bucket by Hayes (if I remember correctly). he was up and cheering for the players on the floor. He had that nice turnaround jumper on the block. He was a good player for Charlotte after the expansion draft, got lost, and hopefully he'll fit here in Detroit. He reminds me of Memo with heart.

Not much to add that has not already been said. As one of the relatively "younger" Piston fans, I've witnessed 2 great backcourt duos. First it was Zeke and JoeD, then Rip and Chauncey. Now I hope I am seeing the emergence of a third, Stuckey and Afflalo. The interesting thing is that this one can emerge while the other is still here bringing it.

Man this is so sweet, Joe Dumars reloaded the clip while we were still firing shots off, nobody does what Joe does better than Joe. We're deep as heck, under the cap, have 5 expiring contracts (totaling about $8mill btw), we have the MLE, BiAnnual, and draft picks available this summer.

I took my daughter to this one, so of course there was no way we could lose. I have lost count now, but its in the 20's, the number of regular season games she has went to, and the Pistons have won every one of them. She has been to a playoff series loss, but we have won each series where she has been to a game in that series.


We both went to this one to see Darko play. Not much to see. Darko, due to injuries, and lots of foul trouble when he has played, is not in game shape. He did very little in this one although his defense was fine.
Rudy Gay was the only Memphis player worth watching tonight. Good game by him helped keep this one from being a laugher by halftime.


As it was, we only were up by about 4 at the half. But I knew we had the game won. Flip Saunders had played his bench. A lot. Sure enough, the starters came out in the 3rd and did quite well. Prince led the scoring with a lot of going to the basket. Rip hit some shots. Billups got to the line a lot abusing the short guards for Memphis.


Sheed continues to be off on his shot. If people stretch their memories just a bit though, they should know why. Sheed is still nursing that knee injury.


Dyess hit some shots, and even got some offensive boards early in the game. Good rebounding game for him. Not enough inside play for my liking though.


Hayes continues to struggle badly on his outside shooting. He got setup from a couple of nice passes for scores at the hoop (Afflalo then Stuckey) but otherwise just made one short jumper off a post up while missing many shots. I'd say he is definitely keeping the door wide open for Herrmann to step in and take his minutes.


Afflalo was outstanding in this one. On one play, he hounded Miller so bad Miller must have wondered what army had attacked him. Afflalo hit his shots, made all but one of many free throws, dished assists. When Afflalo drives in, you don't see nothing but smooth. He will make the shot, or get to the line and make his free throws. (or just as likely find an easy assist) Afflalo did not take any long rangers on his way to a career high 12 points. Good rebounding game too.


Stuckey got in for some garbage time. Within seconds, he had missed a shot inside, gathered his own rebound, and put it up an in.


Hunter played some good D, got a couple of assists. But no, you can't say he had a great game. Things stalled very badly early 2nd quarter with Hunter trying to run the point. Some good shooting by Rip at the end of that stint made Hunter not look too bad.


In both halves, Afflalo came in early for Rip. In the 2nd half, Afflalo came in, and soon the game was a route, so Rip never had to return. This stretch featured Maxiell being a total beast inside. Its like, hey, his name IS on the ball, right? Why even try to fight him for it.


Amir played. A dunk on a fast break was his highlight. Several rebounds, decent D. Some say he looks lost. Yeah, but he looks fast, quick, tall, lengthy. Amir played a lot in this game. Memphis was held to their worst output of the season. Detroit murdered Memphis in points off turnovers, and 2nd chance points. And we ended up slaughtering Memphis unmercifully in the 2nd half. Anyone think this just might be from the extra energy guys like JMAX, Afflalo, and Amir added to the game?


For this game, no, I can't think of a thing to criticize Saunders on. Excellent use of the bench. Stuckey got to play. Brezec got to play. Brezec looked just fine out there. He actually hit a fadeaway shot that Mohammed always comes up short on. (PS, I don't know what is possessing Mohammed to play well all the sudden in Charlotte. Maybe he is trying to prove something - lets see how long it lasts.)


Anyone notice that if we play Amir in the rotation we are immune to foul trouble. JMAX went out early in the 2nd quarter with his 3rd foul, but low and behold, we have another very active young player who can step in and do just fine in his place.


Murray did not dress. All twelve who dressed played, and they all scored except for Hunter. Ten players played meaningful minutes in the first half. At the half by the way, Sheed was the only guy who had played too many minutes at that point. Yep, there is room right there for Brezec to get some playing time. (And still play everyone else.)


I believe that once Stuckey gets fully ready to play, they will dress the following 12 players for most games:


Billups, Stuckey, Rip, Afflalo, Tay, Herrmann, Hayes, Dyess, Amir, Sheed, JMAX, Brezec.


For the playoffs, just maybe Samb will dress instead of Hayes. Imagine being that deep at center.


GO PISTONS!!!!!

Great game. Got to see Stucky's 1st 2 points as a pro.

Memphis came to play. Their hustle pushed the Pistons to match their intensity. The Turnover differential says it all 22-8 . The Pistons were forcing TO's and scoring off them - on practically every posetion for some stretches. Basically out-executed them. Wore them down and eventually dominated. Plus we got to the line and shot around 80%.

Sheed was amazing on the defensive end.

Jason ( no free lunch ) Maxiel was his usual self. Does not matter how many fouls he has he simply cannot allow someone a free pass. Just can't do it.

McDyess was Mr. Hustle. One play he dove for the ball with 3 other opponents and saved the play.

Afflalo was outstanding in all aspects, making a good case for the backup PG spot.

I like Brezec. After seeing him play I do think he can fill a role here. Plays with a lot of energy and is a good rebounder. Not to mention that he is the only active 7'er that we have.

Only dissapointment was Amir. You can slice it and dice it anyway you want - the guy did not have it tonight. Maybe he did not expect to play or did not want to chance anything in rare game-time mins. Whatever the case he looked timid and not in sync with the rest of the team. But I am still confident. He did seem to relax once he finally hit his 1st shot.

Flip Murray did not dress and was not even in the building. Fueling speculation on the post-game that he has already seen his last game as a Piston. Hopefully Dumars can get us a 2nd rounder for him.

Great game. Got to see Stucky's 1st 2 points as a pro.

Memphis came to play. Their hustle pushed the Pistons to match their intensity. The Turnover differential says it all 22-8 . The Pistons were forcing TO's and scoring off them - on practically every posetion for some stretches. Basically out-executed them. Wore them down and eventually dominated. Plus we got to the line and shot around 80%.

Sheed was amazing on the defensive end.

Jason ( no free lunch ) Maxiel was his usual self. Does not matter how many fouls he has he simply cannot allow someone a free pass. Just can't do it.

McDyess was Mr. Hustle. One play he dove for the ball with 3 other opponents and saved the play.

Afflalo was outstanding in all aspects, making a good case for the backup PG spot.

I like Brezec. After seeing him play I do think he can fill a role here. Plays with a lot of energy and is a good rebounder. Not to mention that he is the only active 7'er that we have.

Only dissapointment was Amir. You can slice it and dice it anyway you want - the guy did not have it tonight. Maybe he did not expect to play or did not want to chance anything in rare game-time mins. Whatever the case he looked timid and not in sync with the rest of the team. But I am still confident. He did seem to relax once he finally hit his 1st shot.

Flip Murray did not dress and was not even in the building. Fueling speculation on the post-game that he has already seen his last game as a Piston. Hopefully Dumars can get us a 2nd rounder for him.

Hey Max, not to pick on you, but do you recall if Amir got to play in the last game? Do you recall a whole lot of plays being ran for Amir this season? Have you not noticed the numerous times Amir was right where he was suppose to be, with his defender locked out and a clear path to the basket - only to have his team not pass him the ball? Considering how little effort the Pistons have put into Amir being given a role on the team, Amir is doing just fine. This game included.

Hey Max, not to pick on you, but do you recall if Amir got to play in the last game? Do you recall a whole lot of plays being ran for Amir this season? Have you not noticed the numerous times Amir was right where he was suppose to be, with his defender locked out and a clear path to the basket - only to have his team not pass him the ball? Considering how little effort the Pistons have put into Amir being given a role on the team, Amir is doing just fine. This game included.

Actually this was the 1st stint where he really did not impress me. Yes playing without a decent ball handler for most of his 2nd quarter mins did not help. But he was not even looking or ready for a pass if it did come. Plus out of position on most rebounds. His defense was ok.

He does need to play. I can agree with that. Try to get him some mins in every game and we should start seeing more of that guy who dominated the D-league last year.

Hayes continues to struggle badly on his outside shooting. He got setup from a couple of nice passes for scores at the hoop (Afflalo then Stuckey) but otherwise just made one short jumper off a post up while missing many shots. I'd say he is definitely keeping the door wide open for Herrmann to step in and take his minutes.

Not hating on Jarvis, but if I'm Walter Herrmann, I'm noticing that this guy ain't delivering right now. Walter needs to work his butt off because an opportunity just may be a'knockin.

Also, we have 2 young players in Maxiel and Afflalo who bring a great deal of intensity and energy off the bench. Herrmann is supposed to cut from that same mold. How great would it be to get what AA and Max bring to the SG & PF spot from Herrmann at the SF spot. I really want to see if Herrmann can bring some things that Hayes doesn't or can't bring.

Actually this was the 1st stint where he really did not impress me. Yes playing without a decent ball handler for most of his 2nd quarter mins did not help. But he was not even looking or ready for a pass if it did come. Plus out of position on most rebounds. His defense was ok.

He does need to play. I can agree with that. Try to get him some mins in every game and we should start seeing more of that guy who dominated the D-league last year.

Good comment about who he was out there with. Hunter, Rip. No ball handling from the backcourt. Hayes at small forward. No ball handling.

Maybe you missed a play or two. What I saw was Amir getting in good position the first couple of times, and then realizing it was a lost cause and concentrated on finding something else to do.

On rebounding, Amir led the team in rebounds per minute on the floor. He don't have to get into that good a position. He is quick, tall, and lengthy. He gets rebounds very well. He has all season so far, whenever he gets to play.

I certainly hope that no further reasons are found to exclude Amir. (Like big games, other people needing time, whatever.) No more excuses. Just lots of time for Amir so he can get comfortable out there, and his team can get use to having someone out there like him who can do so many things that nobody else on the team can even begin to do. Stay tuned for those details. I am getting a positive feeling that Amir is soon to be unleashed on the league.

Does anyone else think that the Piston defense is getting close to the same degree as the Piston defense of several years ago when they won it all? They seem to be able to reach that point where the other team can just not operate.

I have seen people talking about shopping Rip and I could not disagree more. But then, you all know that I am not much of a judge of talent.

Damn!!!

The defensive screws usually get really tightened when J-Max, AA, and Lindsey are on the court. But J-Max and AA provide that defensive intensity that the rest of the team just feeds off of. Sheed has been great defensively, even though he struggled with his shot lately. He's been paying more attention to rebounding.

Afflalo was outstanding in all aspects, making a good case for the backup PG spot.

AA can not play point guard. He couldn't play it at UCLA and and it seems to me that he will never play it in the NBA, except maybe in short stretches during an emergency.

:hoops:

Actually this was the 1st stint where he really did not impress me. Yes playing without a decent ball handler for most of his 2nd quarter mins did not help. But he was not even looking or ready for a pass if it did come. Plus out of position on most rebounds. His defense was ok.

He does need to play. I can agree with that. Try to get him some mins in every game and we should start seeing more of that guy who dominated the D-league last year.

Considering he got more rebounds per minute tonight than any of our other players, (better than 1 every 3 minutess) I can only imagine how many rebounds he will get when he doesn't look lost, confused. and listless.

In the last two games that he has played he has led us in rebounds per minute and most of those rebounds in the two games were on the defensive end.

I don't think that they are running any plays for him right now because they want him to focus on his defense including rebounding, setting screen on offense etc. He could very well be bored or upset with the fact that they aren't running plays for him or letting him do his thing on the offensive end. He could have been upset over the fact that he was a DNP coaches decision in Boston after playing pretty good in the game before against GS.

There are a lot of mental things for a very young NBA player to have to deal with. The best way to do that is with minutes and coaching.

He is still our youngest and most inexperienced player, except for Cheikh who while older is less experienced.

Right now I think the main thing for him is too keep improving his defense and to continue to lead us in rebounds per minute played. If he can do those two things this year he will get minutes and contribute to our effort in a very positive way..

Right now we need his defense and rebounding, not his scoring.

:hoops:

Does anyone else think that the Piston defense is getting close to the same degree as the Piston defense of several years ago when they won it all? They seem to be able to reach that point where the other team can just not operate.

I have seen people talking about shopping Rip and I could not disagree more. But then, you all know that I am not much of a judge of talent.

Damn!!!

Yes I have noticed that too. Even the second unit is showing that it can play lock down defense including in garbage time, which is pretty amazing. No teams play lock down defense in garbage time. In fact I don't think that any NBA teams play any defense at all in garbage time.

The thing that impressed me the most about our win tonight was that our second unit totally shut the Griz down in the 4th quarter. It doesn't matter that much that it was their bench that we shut down. What is important to me is that the second unit made a concerted effort to play solid defense even when the game was no longer in doubt and they were able to get excellent results for their effort.

:hoops:

The defensive screws usually get really tightened when J-Max, AA, and Lindsey are on the court. But J-Max and AA provide that defensive intensity that the rest of the team just feeds off of. Sheed has been great defensively, even though he struggled with his shot lately. He's been paying more attention to rebounding.

Sheed's shooting has been going down hill since 2004-05.

His shooting percentages and Free Throw attempts per game.

2004-05 ----- .440 ----2.9
2005-06 ----- .430 ----2.6
2006-07 ----- .423 ----2.3
2007-08 ----- .420 ----2.2

I think that the primary reasons for this is that has has taken to spending more time playing away from the basket over the last 4 years.

One thing that Sheed does not do very well is put the ball on the floor and go to the rack. He also does not get a lot of put backs.

His inside game is mostly a post up game, which maybe he doesn't do as much of as he should.

So it seems to me that as result of the above and advancing age his shooting percentage is going to continue to deteriorate.

I don't believe that this is just a shooting slump that he is dealing with.

:hoops:

Trying to see where you guys are going with this Rebounder per minute stat of Amir's. He got 5 of them. Which is pretty good. I was there and it looked like he missed a lot of opportunities.

It just did not seem like Amir was very impressive out there. I call it like I see it. No excuses, no global judgements. Don't read any more into it than that.

I agree that our defense is getting tougher and tougher. But the difference between this year and 2004 is that it is not the core starting 5 doing all the damage.

Does anyone else think that the Piston defense is getting close to the same degree as the Piston defense of several years ago when they won it all? They seem to be able to reach that point where the other team can just not operate.

I have seen people talking about shopping Rip and I could not disagree more. But then, you all know that I am not much of a judge of talent.

Damn!!!

Trying to see where you guys are going with this Rebounder per minute stat of Amir's. He got 5 of them. Which is pretty good. I was there and it looked like he missed a lot of opportunities.

It just did not seem like Amir was very impressive out there. I call it like I see it. No excuses, no global judgements. Don't read any more into it than that.

I was not impressed with Amir either. Looked like he reversed all of that good vibe that he had going a few nights ago. I do think it would be pretty easy to get discouraged in that lineup he was in though. Lindsey/Rip at the guard spots is a notorious "stand and watch the guards shoot 20 footers off of ZERO ball movement" lineup. The bigs end up just standing around waiting for one of them to shoot it before they can go back to the defensive end.

Trying to see where you guys are going with this Rebounder per minute stat of Amir's. He got 5 of them. Which is pretty good. I was there and it looked like he missed a lot of opportunities.

It just did not seem like Amir was very impressive out there. I call it like I see it. No excuses, no global judgements. Don't read any more into it than that.

I'm with you, Max. Listless is a "perfect" word to describe him. Amir has become the pet player of some posters so they're going to defend him as much as possible even when it isn't warranted.

Afflalo did not take any long rangers on his way to a career high 12 points. Good rebounding game too.

Actually one of his buckets in the first quarter was a quick jumper as CB got him the ball off a screen from Dice--it was strikingly Rip-like. The tantalizing thing about AA in this game was how much versatility he showed on offense.

Trying to see where you guys are going with this Rebounder per minute stat of Amir's. He got 5 of them. Which is pretty good. I was there and it looked like he missed a lot of opportunities.

It just did not seem like Amir was very impressive out there. I call it like I see it. No excuses, no global judgements. Don't read any more into it than that.

If he missed a lot of them I can only imagine what our other players missed.

I am biased but it is all a matter of perspective and likes and dislikes.

For example last night Bynum got a career high in points in 21 making as I recall 8 of 9 shots.

Now most of those were dunks. Not the earth shattering ones but mostly two handed.

But what I had noticed with him before and saw more of it last night because of all the dunks that he had were two things which only one of I recall having heard maybe one commentator commenting on but have seen anyone have written about him on.

The two things that I noticed were.

1. He can read interior defenses and he knows when to roll to the hoop. (only one of his dunks was a put back and I don't recall any being on a fast break).

2. He has great hands and can catch and throw down anything he can reach within 5 feet of the basket.

The point being and I am in no way discounting what you are saying about AJ based upon what you saw is that we tend to see that which interests us and the other things we just ignore.

Based upon the fact that he had only one block last night and what everyone has said about his play last night, it seems reasonable to say that he did not have one of his better efforts.

But the fact remains, that despite the many missed opportunities and I am assuming you are referring to missed rebounding opportunities, he still wound up with more rebounds per minute for the second straight game that he has played in, than any of our other players. That is a fact, not an observation. So while he may have been listless last night he still managed to rebound at a pretty decent rate of more than 1 every 3 minutes and it is only going to get a lot better.

Inconsistent play for a 20 year old does not surprise me at all.

I have seen AJ and Maxey play like all of us have and in my opinion AJ will never be the glass crashing player on offense like Maxey, nor a one handed dunker like Maxey. So to a lot of people he will not be as exciting to watch around the glass as Maxey.

Again, I am not disputing what you saw and the validity of your comments, but just adding some other observations and opinions to them.

:hoops:

I'm with you, Max. Listless is a "perfect" word to describe him. Amir has become the pet player of some posters so they're going to defend him as much as possible even when it isn't warranted.

I am sure you are referring to me.

I am not saying he didn't look listless because clearly that is what it is and he will have sub par games like all players, especially young ones do.

What I am saying are two things, that in spite of his apparent listlessness he still:

1. wound up with more rebounds per minute than anyone else we played.

2. he played mostly in the 4th quarter when we held the Griz to 13 points, their lowest quarterly point total of the game.

Those are the facts.

How many rebounds did Maxey or Brezec get last night? In 19 minutes combined they had 3 rebounds, whereas AJ had 5 rebounds in less than 13 minutes. So clearly Maxey and Brezec missed a lot more rebounding opportunities than AJ did.



:hoops:

I am sure you are referring to me.

I am not saying he didn't look listless because clearly that is what it is and he will have sub par games like all players, especially young ones do.

What I am saying are two things, that in spite of his apparent listlessness he still:

1. wound up with more rebounds per minute than anyone else we played.

2. he played mostly in the 4th quarter when we held the Griz to 13 points, their lowest quarterly point total of the game.

Those are the facts.

How many rebounds did Maxey or Brezec get last night? In 19 minutes combined they had 3 rebounds, whereas AJ had 5 rebounds in less than 13 minutes. So clearly Maxey and Brezec missed a lot more rebounding opportunities than AJ did.



:hoops:

The Grizz did score 13 points in the fourth quarter. Who did they have in there? Their best players? Game was pretty much over. They didn't care.

AJ had three fouls in 13 minutes, too. That was more fouls per minute than anyone else. Amir was also +4, the worst on the team.

objective - Definitions from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective)

Minus the Injury, AJ is right where I think Dumars and Flip expected this year. He is getting regular mins, I don't think Dumars said he would be in the regular rotation. He is super young with loads of potential and needs playing time to get better.

However were not an expansion team and were trying to win games now, and we have 3 very young players getting into the rotation right now.... Its not going as fast as some of you seem to think it should, and you can throw stats out to prove your points.... my stats teacher in college once said you can make stats say whatever you want them too.... you hate a player you make him look bad, you like a player and you can make him look all world (lee with arryo's assist to turnover margin for example) AJ's future is looking great but lets not give him the MVP award just yet.

Enjoy his great moments, and understand that he's going to have lots of bumps along the road.... He's playing, he's learning, and might even be ready to help in the playoffs this year, but thats not a given yet.

The Grizz did score 13 points in the fourth quarter. Who did they have in there? Their best players? Game was pretty much over. They didn't care.

AJ had three fouls in 13 minutes, too. That was more fouls per minute than anyone else. Amir was also +4, the worst on the team.

objective - Definitions from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective)

example from those stats.... he must be the man on the way out.. worst on the team we should cut him right?

Pick a view and somebody can find the stats to back them up...

wow. wow wow, wow wow. i'm not sure i can go back to my normal seats after being on the floor!!!! this was such an amazing experience, and it's impossible to describe what it was like to be 5 feet from the court. it was a little difficult in the 3rd row, because everyone's head got in the way and you couldn't always see what was going on (kind of like the thrill of a roller coaster, but there's a big difference sitting in front), but it was incredible nonetheless.

my buddy and i got to the game extremely early and watched the players warmed up. we also had some dinner, and the waitress was extremely nice. the food and drinks were very reasonably priced and we got our food in less than 5 minutes. i got a turkey sandwich and i think there was practically a pound of meat in it. even the better made potato chip bag had a Pistons 50th season logo on it and in the corner it said 'DEEEEETROIT POTATO CHIPS' ! you'll see it on my pictures.

anyway, for warmups, the younger players were out there a lot more than the starters. all of the rookies and the 2 new guys (herrmann/brezec) had to do a lot of running and suicides (not at full speed but still running). brezec was especially winded. for those who are wondering about murray, he was there for warmups. i'm guessing he didn't realize he was inactived and didn't have a suit. you'll see in another picture that one of the assistants looks just like cavs coach mike brown.

after awhile the players came out for pregame. they showed video in the hallway, and a bunch of the guys picked up lindsey off the ground (i think, hard to see craning my neck up at the jumbotron) while rip pummeled him with jabs. the singer for the national anthem did a great job and was pretty hot too. one girl who sat near us looked like Megan Fox from the side (you'll see from pictures) but wasn't nearly as attractive. one of the refs was chatting it up with the fans, and yeah.

so the game started and it just flew by. the first quarter ended and i thought only a few minutes had gone by. when you're sitting that close it's difficult to get a flow of the game, see who is and who isn't playing well, be cognizant of the score, or even know who is winning. you're just so sucked in by watching and listening to the players. there wasn't much emotion in this one - the pistons were all business. they were a little lazy in the 1st half, but memphis showed nothing...there was no fear of losing this game, which is probably why amir got time in the 2nd quarter. again it was difficult to evaluate players from where I sat, but the biggest problem i noticed with amir was his footwork on defense, and lack of strength. he seemed flat-footed and late to recover or react to what his man was doing, and got pushed around a bit. i wouldn't say he was disinterested or anything like that though, it's just that he's very young and still very raw, and still learning the game of basketball. if the playoffs started today i wouldn't feel comfortable giving him any time, but he could definitely contribute if given time for the rest of the season. he's still got excellent physical capabilities and should have a bright future.

afflalo was simply, THE MAN. this was by far his best game as a piston, and he single-handedly got the crowd fired up. combined with stuckey being back, tonight he locked in playing time over murray and secured his spot as rip's backup for the rest of the year. while none of us know what goes through saunders head, i would be absolutely shocked if aa went through another game without getting time in the 2nd half. that is what you call playing your way into the lineup. this guy has pistons' DNA and his hard work is paying off. this was a perfect pick by Joe, and shows why picking late in the 1st round can pay off. look at jmax, prince, and afflalo - college guys, winners, and you know what they bring to the table. they were 'safe' picks but you KNOW they could contribute. aa just has so much body control, never forces the action, has a high basketball IQ, and plays incredible defense. he clearly bothered mike miller tonight and anyone else he was guarding (even though miller had a definite size advantage). his 'hop step' that stuckey also likes to use is borderline traveling, and the memphis guys were complaining about it, but the refs were explaining that they thought it was okay, so fine by me. near the end of the game memphis was inbounding in front of us and afflalo was facing us right there, and a guy called out to him and said 'hey arron, great game love the confidence', and aa glanced at him quickly and gave a little smirk. it was cool.

stuckey looked great in garbage time, and his defense was impressive. the pass to jarvis hayes was sick...seriously. i had the exact angle where my head was aligned with where stuckey was looking, and i have no clue how he saw jarvis or threaded the needle to get him the ball. that was all i needed to see to know that this guy *can* play the point for us, and do a good job.

brezec is really working hard to try and get in the lineup. that ball he dove for was sweet, because he clearly wasn't fast enough to get to it first, but he kept it alive. the crowd loved it, and they loved when he finally went for his own shot and drained it. let me stress that this is a LARGE MAN. he looked at least 3 inches taller than sheed when they stood next to each other, and he's also pretty wide. when we talked about playing nazr against bigger centers, i think brezec could fill in just the same. now i'm not saying he should get a lot of time, or that he looks all that impressive, but if we need him he's there.

other random observations about the game: gasol gets angry a lot and looks funny squatting on defense, darko looked atrocious and disinterested, mcdyess continues to have passes deep in the paint bounce right off his hands, i swear my favorite automotion girl was checking me out (or could be my imagination haha), fans didn't do much heckling around our area, the players are chatting with the refs constantly, memphis couldn't score in the 2nd half, and our bench just dominated their bench. our bench defense was suffocating, and memphis couldn't score. their bench sucks.

so here's a link to the pictures and video i took. excuse some of the poor quality and grainy pictures, but i just got this camera and had no clue how to use it. plus people's heads got in the way which screwed up the focus. for the videos (labeled VIDEO_* at the bottom), please please PLEASE right-click and save as, rather than view it in your browser. thanks!!!!

Index of /images/pistons (http://www.whgl.net/images/pistons/)

The Grizz did score 13 points in the fourth quarter. Who did they have in there? Their best players? Game was pretty much over. They didn't care.

AJ had three fouls in 13 minutes, too. That was more fouls per minute than anyone else. Amir was also +4, the worst on the team.

objective - Definitions from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective)

It doesn't matter who they had in there. They are NBA players.

Find me another game in which the second unit was held to 13 points in the 4th quarter of a game.

I am not saying he didn't have a sub par game, but in spite of that he still rebounded better than any of our other players on the court last night except for maybe Dyess.

Just like all players, especially young ones, he will have his share of sub par games.

Our starters and bench played lousy the whole first half. We played lousy against Utah and Chicago in three out three games this year and AJ did not contribute to that.

In my opinion the critique of AJ is aimed more at me than it is at him.


:hoops:

example from those stats.... he must be the man on the way out.. worst on the team we should cut him right?

Not at all. I think Amir has tremendous upside, and I think he can help the Pistons. But I'm not fixated on Amir, constantly clamoring for him to get playing time. I'm more concerned with what's good for the TEAM, not what's good for one player. He helped the TEAM last night by coming in in the first half due to foul trouble. I was glad to see it, frankly. He has the POTENTIAL to make up a strong, bench contingent.

At this point, however, I'm not ready to say the guy's gonna be great. One thing I like, and Joe D has obviously learned, that this kid needs to get some burn when it really counts. Not just garbage time.

In my opinion the critique of AJ is aimed more at me than it is at him.


:hoops:

Actually, I think of you and AJ as one and the same at this point, B.

which is probably why amir got time in the 2nd quarter. again it was difficult to evaluate players from where I sat, but the biggest problem i noticed with amir was his footwork on defense, and lack of strength. he seemed flat-footed and late to recover or react to what his man was doing, and got pushed around a bit. i wouldn't say he was disinterested or anything like that though, it's just that he's very young and still very raw, and still learning the game of basketball. if the playoffs started today i wouldn't feel comfortable giving him any time, but he could definitely contribute if given time for the rest of the season. he's still got excellent physical capabilities and should have a bright future.

Index of /images/pistons (http://www.whgl.net/images/pistons/)

I would say that this is probably a fair and accurate assessment.

:hoops:

Actually, I think of you and AJ as one and the same at this point, B.

Suite yourself.

:hoops:

AJ's future is looking great but lets not give him the MVP award just yet.

Enjoy his great moments, and understand that he's going to have lots of bumps along the road.... He's playing, he's learning, and might even be ready to help in the playoffs this year, but thats not a given yet.

I would say that this is also a fair and accurate assessment.

:hoops:

Not at all. I think Amir has tremendous upside, and I think he can help the Pistons. But I'm not fixated on Amir, constantly clamoring for him to get playing time. I'm more concerned with what's good for the TEAM, not what's good for one player. He helped the TEAM last night by coming in in the first half due to foul trouble. I was glad to see it, frankly. He has the POTENTIAL to make up a strong, bench contingent.

At this point, however, I'm not ready to say the guy's gonna be great. One thing I like, and Joe D has obviously learned, that this kid needs to get some burn when it really counts. Not just garbage time.


sorry for not being more clear i was following my previous post and was being sarcastic that from the stats you showed he was washed up just like from some stats folks say he's ready to start and play 30 mins a night.... i agree with you totally.

Not at all. I think Amir has tremendous upside, and I think he can help the Pistons. But I'm not fixated on Amir, constantly clamoring for him to get playing time. I'm more concerned with what's good for the TEAM, not what's good for one player. He helped the TEAM last night by coming in in the first half due to foul trouble. I was glad to see it, frankly. He has the POTENTIAL to make up a strong, bench contingent.

At this point, however, I'm not ready to say the guy's gonna be great. One thing I like, and Joe D has obviously learned, that this kid needs to get some burn when it really counts. Not just garbage time.

Believe me I am not fixated on AJ either.

I am not even fixed on Danica, though you may find that hard to believe.

I love Hot Rod's game and AA's game just as much as AJ's I also love Bynum's game and Jordan Farmar's game.

I just post more about AJ because I know how much work he needs to do to get anywhere near his potential and it has been three years since he left Westchester high and is now only starting to get some minutes with us and the experience needed to progress.

It like Rick Porcello. I think the guy has the potential to be another Josh Beckett and am excited as heck that he signed with the Tigers, but I am not fixated on him.

What I am fixated on are my financial investments which I don't discuss on this forum or with anyone else.

:hoops:

Wow, best HogCap ever! Keep getting those tight courtside seats, dude!!

He has the POTENTIAL to make up a strong, bench contingent.

He can add to the effectiveness of the second unit this year, that is for sure.

:hoops:

KGreq
"Man this is so sweet, Joe Dumars reloaded the clip while we were still firing shots off,"
Ah, blanks in the last 2 ConFinals.

I just post more about AJ because I know how much work he needs to do to get anywhere near his potential and it has been three years since he left Westchester high and is now only starting to get some minutes with us and the experience needed to progress.

Fair enough, Buddha. I forgot that Amir came from SoCal. Your interest makes a little more sense to me.

And you're right, Amir does have a lot of work to do. I worry about the work ethic of kids who are urged to jump to the NBA from high school. They've been told how great they are all their lives. I'm not saying I'm a fan of Stern's "19-year-old rule," but hopefully Amir understands, like you, that he has a long way to go. I would hope for $3M per, he'll be willing to put in the work.

Peace.

I think to put the whole AJ thing into perspective.

Lets compare where he stands compared to Maxey

Maxey played 4 years of big time college hoops.

His first year with us when he as 22-23 he averaged 2 points and 1 rebound.

AJ has had no college experience and prior to this year he had only 50 games in the D league 60 in total beyond high school if you include the 11 games with us over the last two years.

AJ is still only 20 years old and won't be 21 until the playoffs, which is about 2 + years younger than Maxey was when he joined us.

So far AJ is averaging 2.5 points and 2.7 rebounds a game this year, which are already better than Maxey had in his first year with us and those numbers should go up by the end of the year.

So if you compare him to Maxey, I would say that AJ at this time in on a relative time, experience and age basis compares very favorably to Maxey.



Jason Maxiell - Detroit Pistons - Career Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3952/career;_ylt=AoxXg.2bHbQgK5PD.8pRXPGkvLYF)


Amir Johnson - Detroit Pistons - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3982)

I would say that this is probably a fair and accurate assessment.

:hoops:

I am going to add something to the part about needing more floor time to gain the experience.

Not long ago, people were harping on JMAX's rebounding. I told them, hold on, he has not had time enough to get comfortable out there. Wait. And gee, JMAX, with floor time, got comfortable. Now other teams hate to see him out there because they can't keep him off the offensive boards. And his defensive rebounding is just fine.

Now, listen to this. Amir is a far superior rebounder compared to JMAX. With some time on the floor, some experience, some comfort level, Amir will be clearly our best rebounder, and there will not be anyone to ever question it.

In addition, Amir is far and away the better offensive player vs. JMAX. Time will see everyone understand that.

Further, Amir is a far better shot blocker vs. JMAX.

Further, on dunking, JMAX looks impressive, but you ain't seen nothing yet until you see Amir get comfortable out there.

In sum, give it time. Amir is one of our best players. We absolutely need him to play as much as possible this year so we can win it all this year. Next year ain't going to help this year. The time is now for Amir to get minutes, and thats the only opinion that matters on Amir.

So, I ask this - who out there thinks he should be getting regular minutes now. (Vs. watiting until next year.)

I'll give my vote. Play him now. Anyone who wants to set up a poll on this, please do so.

Lee just go to the Amir tracker, must of us are down.

Amir is a far superior rebounder compared to JMAX.

Maybe on the defensive glass, but Maxiell is the Pistons' best offensive rebounder.

If you look at rebounding and blocks per 48 minutes.

AJ is our leader at 14.4 rebounds per 48 minutes which would put him 20th in the league if he had enough minutes.

AJ is averaging 6.9 blocks per 48 minutes. The league leader is Mourning at 5.2 blocks per 48 minutes. Maxey is averaging 3.1 which makes him 16th in the league.


ESPN - NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbablocks&qual=true&sort=blks&league=nba&split=0&season=2008&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=all)

:hoops:

Maybe on the defensive glass, but Maxiell is the Pistons' best offensive rebounder.

I love it that he attacks the offensive glass the way he does.

:hoops:

To THE HOGMAN!!:

That was sooooo kool! U are once again 'the king of all Palace media"!!! Great pics(with the exception of the big heads in front of u). Maybe next time you can take a couple of xtra $$$$ to buy your way into the front row. :pound:I dont know who Megan fox is but my daughter got on me because I thought you meant Megan Good!!:pound:

ON THE GAME:

Wouldnt it be a wonderful world if every Piston could play 30 minutes each, and average 12 pts, 8 rebounds and 5 assists a game?? The nature of this team is Piston DNA and the object of the game is TO WIN. Our goal is THE 'SHIP!
It doesnt matter that Amir gets more PT or Stuckey and AA win Co-Rookie of the year or that Ed Herrmann 'IS' the head vampire because I remember when this team was a 16 and 66 laughing stock!!
When it comes down to it will be #1, 22, 32, 36 and 24 when it counts. #54, 3, 28, 9 and 7 will be valuable commodities and # 25 and The Checkster will watch and learn as Salley and Rodman of our future.

NOTES from the bench:
CAREER: (in 3 to 5 years)
AA: Will be a stud in the Dennis Johnson clone factory. He has better range and better footspeed, though. I just like all the intangibles.
CARRER: 15 PPG, 5 RPG, 5 APG

STUCKEY: Anyone remember Joe Dumars? That's Stuckey if he improves defensively. Dumars wasnt a "true" point guard, but he knew how to run a team. Rod will understudy with the two masters, Dumars and Billups as he becomes 'Volume 3-BAdBoys' captain.
CAREER: 20 PPG, 4 RPG, 7APG

THE BRAHMA: Big Nasty with Hops! He will never be more than a 24 Minute-man, because of foul trouble and match up problems, but he could become the best 6th man in Piston history not named Rodman.
The best plays are his pullup jumpers and tenacity on the O-glass. Will always be a fan favorite.
CAREER: 14PPg, 8 Rpg, 2 BSpg

AMIR: John Salley.(period) He will be a lil better than Spider because of shooting range and ballhandling. But Spider lived for the "winning". Amir is still about the moment. But he is still only 20, but not as mature as Spider was at 20. AJ's time will come, but as long as he knows he has to play a role for this particular team for at least 2 more years.
CAREER: 13PPG, 11 RPG, 2 BSpg

THE CHEKKSTER: Lots of upside. If he puts on 20 more pounds, I SWEAR, he could be a poorman's David Robinson. He will never be the scorer the ADmiral was(71 pts in one game, remember), but he CAN be a game changer because he's a good passer and agressive defender. I know I show my old age a lot, but in the 70's there was a center named Artis Gilmore who pulled on 25 lbs after college and became a freight train.Im telling u, Samb can be the same.
CAREER: 12 PPg, 10 Rpg, 3 BSpg

This will be the basis of all of our future drafts and signings. TAY will be the leader in the locker room (17.7 PPg) and CB will be the old man. Rip will be traded and Dice and Sheed will have retired.(Especially if we can get another 'ship)

THE CHEKKSTER: Lots of upside. If he puts on 20 more pounds, I SWEAR, he could be a poorman's David Robinson. He will never be the scorer the ADmiral was(71 pts in one game, remember), but he CAN be a game changer because he's a good passer and agressive defender. I know I show my old age a lot, but in the 70's there was a center named Artis Gilmore who pulled on 25 lbs after college and became a freight train.Im telling u, Samb can be the same.
CAREER: 12 PPg, 10 Rpg, 3 BSpg


Whoa there, buddy...I'd be happy if Samb just ended up being the next Sam Dalembert. Although maybe we're saying the same thing, since Dalembert the last couple of years has been around 11 ppg, 9-10 boards, 2 blocks. But would you call Dalembert a poor man's Admiral, or even a poor man's Big Artis?

Whoa there, buddy...I'd be happy if Samb just ended up being the next Sam Dalembert. Although maybe we're saying the same thing, since Dalembert the last couple of years has been around 11 ppg, 9-10 boards, 2 blocks. But would you call Dalembert a poor man's Admiral, or even a poor man's Big Artis?He has the potential(if he gains weight) of a Gilmore(remember how MOses Malone took off after adding a few big macs?) But just not a 23 ppg scorer. Artis was an impact player BITD! I just see something in Samb's DNA that says he 's not quitting on this team. Dalembert has no heart....

buddah, i understand where you're coming from with AJ's and Max's rebound numbers, but it's difficult to compare them. Many of AJ's minutes are in garbage time and/or against bench scrubs, who are looking for their own offense and easier to predict for the blocks. Give Amir all of Maxiell's minutes and he most likely doesn't keep up that production. Plus he's a lot more foul-prone than Max, who has learned to pick his spots and not pick up silly fouls as often.

I'm not saying Amir isn't a great shot blocker or is incapable of playing at or above Max's level, but I think those numbers need to be put into perspective.

HQ, holla! Megan Fox is the hot chick from Transformers. I love (and mostly agree with) your assessment of our young guys. Credit has to be given to Joe Dumars - we've got an awesome combination of championship vets, young vets, role players, and building blocks. With Stuckey getting minutes and Flip/Nazr gone from the lineup, I don't think I'm going to get bored watching the Pistons for the rest of the year, as opposed to earlier in the season.

buddah, i understand where you're coming from with AJ's and Max's rebound numbers, but it's difficult to compare them. Many of AJ's minutes are in garbage time and/or against bench scrubs, who are looking for their own offense and easier to predict for the blocks. Give Amir all of Maxiell's minutes and he most likely doesn't keep up that production. Plus he's a lot more foul-prone than Max, who has learned to pick his spots and not pick up silly fouls as often.

I'm not saying Amir isn't a great shot blocker or is incapable of playing at or above Max's level, but I think those numbers need to be put into perspective.

HQ, holla! Megan Fox is the hot chick from Transformers. I love (and mostly agree with) your assessment of our young guys. Credit has to be given to Joe Dumars - we've got an awesome combination of championship vets, young vets, role players, and building blocks. With Stuckey getting minutes and Flip/Nazr gone from the lineup, I don't think I'm going to get bored watching the Pistons for the rest of the year, as opposed to earlier in the season.

As I recall Maxey's numbers in his first year were also mostly in garbage time. That was even true to a certain extent last year.

So I believe that in comparing first year numbers of both players, my comparison is valid.


:hoops:

Weird how there is no Darko talk in a game that he actually played in. Its all Amir and the current Pistons which is good. Last year we would not have had a thread like this.

Weird how there is no Darko talk in a game that he actually played in. Its all Amir and the current Pistons which is good. Last year we would not have had a thread like this.

B/c last year nobody (Dumars too) knew, where pick lands and what you could get. And DMC has been a dissapointment for Memphis fans.

Maybe on the defensive glass, but Maxiell is the Pistons' best offensive rebounder.

Maybe for the moment. I say give Amir 5 straight games of 20 minutes and he supasses JMAX on offensive rebounding. Give him the minutes that JMAX has had this season, and then there would be no comparison. Amir is much taller than JMAX, far more athletic, far quicker. JMAX does have better strength to hold his ground, but that won't keep him ahead of Amir for long.

Maybe for the moment. I say give Amir 5 straight games of 20 minutes and he supasses JMAX on offensive rebounding. Give him the minutes that JMAX has had this season, and then there would be no comparison. Amir is much taller than JMAX, far more athletic, far quicker. JMAX does have better strength to hold his ground, but that won't keep him ahead of Amir for long.

Both players bring something different so it really should not be a competition even though it is by what positions the coach has deemed appropriate for them to play.

Jmax brings toughness and a passion for playing inside which we desperatly needed. Amir is more athletic. Can probably take 5-6 mins right from Dyess's 30 MPG and give them to Amir right now. But I am still trying to figure out why Amir would not be able to play some SF? Could probably bump him up to about 10-12 MPG if that were the case.

I am still trying to learn Amir's game and potential to see where he will fit in.

Both players bring something different so it really should not be a competition even though it is by what positions the coach has deemed appropriate for them to play.

Jmax brings toughness and a passion for playing inside which we desperatly needed. Amir is more athletic. Can probably take 5-6 mins right from Dyess's 30 MPG and give them to Amir right now. But I am still trying to figure out why Amir would not be able to play some SF? Could probably bump him up to about 10-12 MPG if that were the case.

I am still trying to learn Amir's game and potential to see where he will fit in.

AJ is not a small forward, never had been and never will be. I have no idea where that thinking came from. To my knowledge he has never played the #3 in his life except maybe by accident.

He is being groomed as a #5.

You don't play your best rebounder and best shot blocker, who is a 7 footer (almost) at the #3. When you defend against a #3 you spend a lot of your time away from the basket. Why on earth would you play your best rebounder and shot blocker on the perimeter on defense? The only exception I can think of is if the opposing #5 played on the outside on offense, but even then I would switch and put a smaller man on their #5 and keep my best rebounder, and shot blocker near the basket, except on jump outs for double teams. AJ is also very effective at altering opponents shots in the paint. He can't do that if he is playing defense on the perimeter.


:hoops:

AJ is not a small forward, never had been and never will be. I have no idea where that thinking came from. To my knowledge he has never played the #3 in his life except maybe by accident.

He is being groomed as a #5.

You don't play your best rebounder and best shot blocker, who is a 7 footer (almost) at the #3. When you defend against a #3 you spend a lot of your time away from the basket. Why on earth would you play your best rebounder and shot blocker on the perimeter on defense? The only exception I can think of is if the opposing #5 played on the outside on offense, but even then I would switch and put a smaller man on their #5 and keep my best rebounder, and shot blocker near the basket, except on jump outs for double teams. AJ is also very effective at altering opponents shots in the paint. He can't do that if he is playing defense on the perimeter.


:hoops:

1) We originally were grooming Amir to be a small forward for his first two years in the league, due to his slight build at that time. But he never played, and the plan was dropped after he grew some.

2) It matters not one iota how good a rebounder you are, or how good a shot blocker you are. No criteria matters one bit except one. Would you help the team more vs. playing someone else those minutes.? Right now, we are not playing Amir many minutes at the 5, or 4; so he has plenty of spare time to play at the 3.

3) Now back to the criteria. Hayes is currently getting small forward minutes. Would Amir do a better job than Hayes with those minutes?

a) Rebounding. Yep, Amir is our best rebounder, so of course he would give us more rebounds vs. Hayes.

b) Defense. I do see some improvement from Hayes as the season goes on. But I still see Hayes as a slow defender overall. As speed is a big part of defending a small forward, I am pretty sure Amir will do a better job vs. Hayes at defense.

c) Post up scoring. It never hurts to add post up scoring. Hayes does do some, but lately his slump has him down to a bucket every other game from post moves. Plus he is very limited, relying almost solely on face up or fade-a-way jumpers out of the post. Amir in contrast has a myriad of post moves that us fans would dearly love to be entertained by.

d) Blocks. Hayes never. Amir, better shot blocker for the league.

e) Ball handling. Hayes seems to be a near zero in this. Amir seems to be a good passer.

f) Outside shooting. Supposedly, this is a strength of Hayes. Possibly the only reason anyone would choose Hayes over Amir as a small forward. But Hayes ain't hitting outside shots at the moment. Maybe some fair competition for his minutes could light a fire under him in this respect. Meanwhile, Amir himself can hit outside shots these days. Its just a matter of letting him shoot the ball.

g. it works for lee's way of thinking and thats all that counts GRIN


AJ will play the 4 and 5 and thats what he has done since he's been here, if I have missed all this "making him a 3" for the last 2 years would somebody please point me where this was told to the masses by somebody that really knows the story.... aka joe's mouth

against certain teams he might be able to play against other teams 3's granted, but most nights he would get toasted he's to big to be guarding the star 3's of the league and were built to beat those teams not to beat a couple of losing teams that we would never play in the playoffs.

2) It matters not one iota how good a rebounder you are, or how good a shot blocker you are. No criteria matters one bit except one. Would you help the team more vs. playing someone else those minutes.? Right now, we are not playing Amir many minutes at the 5, or 4; so he has plenty of spare time to play at the 3.


Post just one link to a player's and team's stats in the history of the NBA where a SF lead his team in rebounds and blocked shots per 48 minutes played in one year, then I will concede your point.

Until then we will just have to agree to disagree.

:hoops:

AJ is not a small forward, never had been and never will be.

I have no idea where that thinking came from. To my knowledge he has never played the #3 in his life except maybe by accident.

AJ has in fact played the 3 spot (technically) during his first two years here, if you count pre-season. I'm of the school that believes AJ can play that spot; similar to another 6-10 high-schooler (R. Lewis). That's not to suggest AJ is in that class (yet), nor would he be a "prototypical" SF, but I'd rather see him snap up any minutes available if Hays slumps.

Lee, Warth. You guys go to the Palace. Does Amir look anything near 7'?

Not to call you out Buddah but in person ( on the floor) Amir looks at best maybe 6'8". Granted I am looking down on him from my seats but he is noticably shorter than Sheed. I think the whole growth span was somekind of media misunderstanding. When Amir was guarding Gason he was way shorter.

Now Amir does seem to have the same speed as Tay. I don't get why he can't play the 3-4 for us?

Lee, Warth. You guys go to the Palace. Does Amir look anything near 7'?

Not to call you out Buddah but in person ( on the floor) Amir looks at best maybe 6'8". Granted I am looking down on him from my seats but he is noticably shorter than Sheed. I think the whole growth span was somekind of media misunderstanding. When Amir was guarding Gason he was way shorter.

Now Amir does seem to have the same speed as Tay. I don't get why he can't play the 3-4 for us?

So you are saying that Arnie Kander uses faulty equipment. Now that would be just great for us.

or

You are calling it a media misunderstanding if you like, but I don't believe the report is wrong, because there is no way that that Kander could have miscommunicated that kind of information.

All players who play the #3 shoot 3 points shots. AJ doesn't shoot three point shots except in practice or at the end of a quarter to beat the light.


In other Johnson news, A. Sherrod Blakely has an update (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2007/10/mohammed_comes_to_camp_stronge.html) on his official height:Amir Johnson keeps on growing. Arnie Kander, Detroit’s strength and conditioning coach, said the 20-year-old is 6-foot-11 1/2. He was 6-9 in 2005 when the Pistons drafted him.



On Amir Johnson’s injury and height | Detroit Bad Boys (http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-10-07/on-amir-johnsons-injury-and-height/)



:hoops:

AJ has in fact played the 3 spot (technically) during his first two years here, if you count pre-season. I'm of the school that believes AJ can play that spot; similar to another 6-10 high-schooler (R. Lewis). That's not to suggest AJ is in that class (yet), nor would he be a "prototypical" SF, but I'd rather see him snap up any minutes available if Hays slumps.

Lewis doesn't rebound worth sheet. He averages 5.8 rebounds per 34 minutes a game over his career.

He is even worse at blocking shots only .5 per game for his career.

NBA.com : Rashard Lewis Career Stats Page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rashard_lewis/career_stats.html)

:hoops:

Maybe Kander forgot to adjust the scale after he measured Ben Wallace at 6'9".

Maybe Kander forgot to adjust the scale after he measured Ben Wallace at 6'9".

:sssh::sssh:

:hoops:

from what i saw, amir is taller than tay but shorter than sheed.

from what i saw, amir is taller than tay but shorter than sheed.

It could be that Sheed is 7' or more and not the 6'11" that is listed everywhere. They never update those things.

If Sheed is 7' or more than AJ could indeed be 6'11 1/2" and still growing?

:hoops:

Most people stop growing at age 21 or so.