At Toronto Jan. 4th, 7:00 PM
TV - FSN Detroit, ESPN


The Pistons travel to Toronto looking for their 11th straight victory. The Raptors currently hold the 4th seed in the EC.

Maybe a "trap" game for the Pistons, with the Celtics looming large the next night?

The Raptors are returning from a weirdly scheduled road trip--they went out West for 7 straight games, but they had something like 5 days off right in the middle of the trip. And they'll have had another several days off before this game against the Pistons.

I'm not feeling a let down. We have so much hunger from our bench, that it seems like those flat performances are so last year.

I'm not feeling a let down. We have so much hunger from our bench, that it seems like those flat performances are so last year.
I agree. There are no indicators that they are going to take the pedal off the metal. My biggest concern is that Flip eases starters minutes and plays AA and AJ a bit more to keep starters fresher for the Boston game.

My biggest concern is that Flip eases starters minutes and plays AA and AJ a bit more to keep starters fresher for the Boston game.

Is this a concern or a request?

Is this a concern or a request?
It is a request in a form of concern, if that makes sense.

I would be more interested in playing the rotation the same as usual, but not change it to win the game with extra minutes for the starters. The other night the Celts big 3 played 40+ minutes just to win.

I would be more interested in playing the rotation the same as usual, but not change it to win the game with extra minutes for the starters. The other night the Celts big 3 played 40+ minutes just to win.
Let them win the 70 games and burn out the starters. I'll take NBA finals appearance over that.

A few concerns and random thoughts on this game.
The Pistons have to play one game at a time and not be looking ahead to the Celtic game.

If the starters get a comfortable lead, they cannot let up...need to crush when you have the opportunity.

The bench has to hold what ever lead the starters give them so that Flip won't have to bring the starters back in for extra minutes

And finally, we all like streaks, but Flip can't overplay the starters in the late 4th trying to secure the streak. Trust the bench and save the fresh starters for the Boston game. (The C's wll be at home Friday and porbably won't have to put up that big of an effort vs the Grizzlies so their big three might be better rested if Flip pulls out all stops for a victory in Toronto. )

Also this game is on ESPN where our success has not been that great...although the last one on ESPN we did win vs the C's!

The C's wll be at home Friday and porbably won't have to put up that big of an effort vs the Grizzlies

Why, is Darko injured?

Why, is Darko injured?

Darko is not injured at the moment. He just helped hold J. O'Neal to pretty much a zero game two nights ago. Except for a couple of bogus foul calls on Darko just because he is the younger player vs. O'Neal, Darko had O'Neal totally locked up.

A few concerns and random thoughts on this game.
The Pistons have to play one game at a time and not be looking ahead to the Celtic game.

If the starters get a comfortable lead, they cannot let up...need to crush when you have the opportunity.

The bench has to hold what ever lead the starters give them so that Flip won't have to bring the starters back in for extra minutes

And finally, we all like streaks, but Flip can't overplay the starters in the late 4th trying to secure the streak. Trust the bench and save the fresh starters for the Boston game. (The C's wll be at home Friday and porbably won't have to put up that big of an effort vs the Grizzlies so their big three might be better rested if Flip pulls out all stops for a victory in Toronto. )

Also this game is on ESPN where our success has not been that great...although the last one on ESPN we did win vs the C's!

You are right, DRE. The Pistons must look for the knock out punch right from the start and not let up. Get to garbage time like what they have been doing lately and let the bench play the 4th quarter. The starters need the rest and get ready for Saturday Night Fever...

You are right, DRE. The Pistons must look for the knock out punch right from the start and not let up. Get to garbage time like what they have been doing lately and let the bench play the 4th quarter. The starters need the rest and get ready for Saturday Night Fever...
The question is whether Toronto is that bad that Pistons can blow them out. Sure, perfect scenario is that starters sit in the 4th. But I'd be looking for more PT from Stuckey, AA, and the rest of the bench in the 2nd.

I hope the Pistons are doing a better job of not looking past Toronto than we are given that our fabulous countdown-o-meter is looking ahead to Boston.

:stirthepot:

Chat today?

Yes, it's open now...come on in!

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

The question is whether Toronto is that bad that Pistons can blow them out. Sure, perfect scenario is that starters sit in the 4th. But I'd be looking for more PT from Stuckey, AA, and the rest of the bench in the 2nd.

Toronto is certainly not bad. The Raptors are currently the 4th best team in the Eastern Conference. The team has a lot of weapons. This game is in Toronto. The Pistons will have their hands full, for sure.

Halftime -

I don't know how we're up considering the lay-up/dunking line we had going on the other end of the floor. Lack of defense, much?

It looks like the guys are already in BOS. I like the fact that the bench got PT. Only downside is Amir. Flip really really doesn't want to play him it seems.

No matter how many open 3's Brezec gives Bargnani

Inconsistent game through the first three quarters...a 9 point lead at halftime shrunk all the way to 2 at one point in the 3rd, thanks to some surprisingly bad D with Bargnani and Calderon getting wide open looks almost every time down, with Rasheed's long bombs being the only reason the Raptors didn't take the lead. Stuckey brought a huge spark at the beginning of the 4th to push the lead out to double digits--steals, fastbreaks, getting into the lane, even hitting a jumper. CB kept it going after he came back in, and that was it. Rip stayed super hot from the floor, 8-11, and the scoring was balanced again with 5 guys in double figures and two more with 8.

Lots of complaining about the minutes for the starters in chat, but it didn't look too bad to me. Rip did play 39, but "the best conditioned player in the NBA" can surely handle that every now and then. The other starters played between 34 and 35 minutes, Tay a little closer to 36.

Stuckey continues perfect as an NBA player

8 wins
0 losses

Can we handle it? Lets bring back Murray and Hunter. LOL

:hoops:

Inconsistent game through the first three quarters...a 9 point lead at halftime shrunk all the way to 2 at one point in the 3rd, thanks to some surprisingly bad D with Bargnani and Calderon getting wide open looks almost every time down, with Rasheed's long bombs being the only reason the Raptors didn't take the lead. Stuckey brought a huge spark at the beginning of the 4th to push the lead out to double digits--steals, fastbreaks, getting into the lane, even hitting a jumper. CB kept it going after he came back in, and that was it. Rip stayed super hot from the floor, 8-11, and the scoring was balanced again with 5 guys in double figures and two more with 8.

Lots of complaining about the minutes for the starters in chat, but it didn't look too bad to me. Rip did play 39, but "the best conditioned player in the NBA" can surely handle that every now and then. The other starters played between 34 and 35 minutes, Tay a little closer to 36.

I wasn't in the chat, but i think the complaining stems from the fact (at least for me) that the starters played unnecessary min. Jarvis was on but Tay still played 36 min. No Afflalo in the 2nd half. And we desperately need a 4th big b/c Amir isn't going to play or Max needs to play more min. Why he gets so little is beyond me.

The bench is supposed to play every game, and come in at regular intervals; not just when there is a double digit lead/blow-out. That's the whole point of having a bench. We were ahead in the 2nd quarter w/ the bench sorta grinding it out. Flip doesn't seem to have the stomach for that though.

This could all be made better by the bench getting major PT in the BOS game especially Afflalo who i think it would be a huge mistake not to play, but i'm not going to hold my breath.

Also look for Ray Allen to go off tomm (he shot awful against MEM), and only around 29, 34 (close to that) for Pierce and KG respectively <- I take that back, just checked the updated boxscore.

edited to add;
Does anybody know if Lindsey is active tomm?

I wasn't in the chat, but i think the complaining stems from the fact (at least for me) that the starters played unnecessary min. Jarvis was on but Tay still played 36 min.

A couple of those minutes were at the end of the first half with a bizarro small ball lineup. Sheed, Dice, and JMax all had at least two fouls, so Flip went with Primoz, CB, Rip, Tay, and Jarvis to end the half. I hope we don't see THAT lineup very often...

Just a few things - Rip with almost 40 minutes = :stupid: But, he's the one player who can actually handle that.
Tay could've played less, given that Jarvis was shooting fairly well, but oh well.
Brezec going in instead of Amir = :suspiciou. This was a team that Amir would've had favorable matchups against; the opposite is true for Brezec. He gave up rebounds, 3's - you name it, he gave it up to Toronto. The dude's defense sucks; all he could do was look on as Bosh/Bargnani/any other Raptor blew by him time and time again. He's obviously desperate to stay with this team, but I just don't think he's good enough.
CB played well enough, hitting a few shots and his usual solid PG play, but Sheed came on in the second half and was a huge reason why we stayed in and won this game. Stuckey played very well too; Afflalo should've played more.

CB didn't really do much

What game were you watching?

Points 18
Rebounds 5
Assists 9
Turnover 1


:hoops:

A good win. Pistons got whatever they wanted on the offense and the defense was solid. You're not going to shut teams out, and 85 points is a good defensive effort. I would have loved to see more minutes from either Brezec or Amir, I don't care at this point, Hayes, and AA. Other than that I am pretty happy with what went down. Boston played too with similar minutes, so neither team will have an advantage tomorrow.

Just wanted to add one more thing - we have to look at the progress Flip's making - last year all starters would've been at 40 minutes in a similar game.

What game were you watching?

Points 18
Rebounds 5
Assists 9
Turnover 1


:hoops:

Which was why I edited it. I meant to say Dice, came out wrong; but, none of them were too bad this game anyway.

Which was why I edited it. I meant to say Dice, came out wrong; but, none of them were too bad this game anyway.

That's just Buddha, it's alright.
:hoops:

Buddha is a stickler for details! :MusicBigGrin:

Great game. I loved listening to the Toronto announcers go from hero worship of the Pistons, to wondering if the Raptors can make the playoffs.

Great stuff!

Hubie Brown was worshipping the Pistons all night. Thought I'd point that out since I often hear Pistons fans whining that the ESPN announcers don't like the team.

Enjoyed the game. I like how Sheed shook off a crappy first half and played great in the second. I would have loved to see Amir on Bosh tonight for a few minutes. Bosh probably would have faked Amir outta his shoes but the experience would have been good. Besides, nobody else was containing Bosh anyway. No blocked shots for Detroit tonight.

Not much drama in this one. Our bench gave us a lead to start the 2nd quarter. From there, Toronto got close once but never quite caught up. Then at the end we kept at least a double digit cushion as Sheed continued racking up the 3 balls.

Very equal scoring in this one with Rip, Sheed, and CB all getting about 20. Dyess had a bad shooting night, was overplayed a bit for sure, but did keep his good rebounding up. Tay was skying high for his share of rebounds too. Them was not coming to him. He was going up and taking them away from people.

So three starters shot well, and our defense held up pretty good. (Except for letting Barngarni (sp)have to many open looks.) In all, we outclassed Toronto pretty badly.

As far as youth development, just 4 minutes for Afflalo. One step back. No minutes for Amir. Another step back. Stuckey again got good minutes, and this has to be his best showing so far with 8 points and 6 assists. Some steals (I think 2). A mistake or two to go along with that, but the positives outweighed any negatives considerably. I only remember him taking the one jumper (a pull up) that he made. He took the ball all the way down and layed it in after he stole it. He got a pass from Rip for a bunny. Let me see, oh yeah, he drove in, drew an important foul on Calderon, and made both his free throws. Later, Billups drew the guys fifth with several minutes yet to go in the game. (Five if memory serves. Or was it 5 minutes into the 4th?)

On the subject of youth development, we can't forget that JMAX is one of those young guys that Flip is really letting play. Every game with lots of minutes. JMAX is just getting more and more comfortable out there. Tonight I think was his best as far as staying calm around the basket, taking his time, and making sure every shot went in. I believe 4 of Stuckey's assists were to JMAX, and at least one trip to the line for JMAX was courtesy of Stuckey too. Good connection there.

Hayes hit a few shots. It was reported, here maybe (or mlive.com or freep.com) that Hayes was pretty darn sore from the fall he took but that he was going to play anyway. This may have limited his minutes some. Maybe.

Of note. Amir did not get in for foul trouble to our bigs at the end of the 1st half. First, they put Brezec in. Then they put Hayes over to power forward with Tay returning to the game to play small forward. And, no, it would not surprise me if Amir is behind Fabio if it came to that. If Saunders does not plan to play Amir any more in the rotation this season, he should be fired, regardless of anything else that is going on. We have a very tough stretch of games coming up. Fans can either accept that as an excuse, or be up in arms about the situation. Just a warning. Those fans who are willing to give Flip a pass on not playing Amir, don't come crying after we lose for lack of a decent 4th big in our rotation when the playoffs get here.

Heard the game...Fino couldn't finish lay-ups.

I really feel sorry for some of you guys, I really do. 11th win in a row. On the road. Against a playoff team. Tor has a lot of youth, I remember when teams like that used to make us look old, I remember when ALL of our starters had to play extended mins just to eek out a win against a team like that. Tonight we go on the road and beat a good young playoff team by 16 pts, we scored over 100 and held them to 85!!! Only one starter played extended mins, Rip, and it's not like thay've had to do that very often. Our bench outscored theirs 25-5!!!! Our bench rotation consists Stuck-21, AA-21, Jayes-26, & Max-25, and they all played and contributed in a positive way, what the heck is wrong with some of you people.

We have no way of knowing how well the playoffs are going to be until they get here, so why not enjoy the sheer entertainment of watching the team you love kick the crap out of the opposition on a nightly basis. You guys are crying about 10mins of combined playing time for Amir and AA......UNREAL!!!!!

Amir will play, lets see how things play out after the all-star break before we send the Mob after Flip.

Right now Flip does not trust a backcourt of AA and Stuck. Stuck is far more integral to our success this season than AA. Stuck is necessary while AA is icing on the cake. In about a month Stuckey will be very comfortable running the team and at that point AA's mins will indeed go back up. And we will also begin to integrate Amir into the mix, the plan is so obvious it's not even funny. RELAX!!!!!!

I really feel sorry for some of you guys, I really do. 11th win in a row. On the road. Against a playoff team. Tor has a lot of youth, I remember when teams like that used to make us look old, I remember when ALL of our starters had to play extended mins just to eek out a win against a team like that. Tonight we go on the road and beat a good young playoff team by 16 pts, we scored over 100 and held them to 85!!! Only one starter played extended mins, Rip, and it's not like thay've had to do that very often. Our bench outscored theirs 25-5!!!! Our bench rotation consists Stuck-21, AA-21, Jayes-26, & Max-25, and they all played and contributed in a positive way, what the heck is wrong with some of you people.

We have no way of knowing how well the playoffs are going to be until they get here, so why not enjoy the sheer entertainment of watching the team you love kick the crap out of the opposition on a nightly basis. You guys are crying about 10mins of combined playing time for Amir and AA......UNREAL!!!!!

Amir will play, lets see how things play out after the all-star break before we send the Mob after Flip.

Right now Flip does not trust a backcourt of AA and Stuck. Stuck is far more integral to our success this season than AA. Stuck is necessary while AA is icing on the cake. In about a month Stuckey will be very comfortable running the team and at that point AA's mins will indeed go back up. And we will also begin to integrate Amir into the mix, the plan is so obvious it's not even funny. RELAX!!!!!!


^^Love this post!

My thoughts, except more eloquent.


Since you've already captured it in words, here's an emoticon meant to capture my feelings about the 2008 Pistons------>:greenapple:

Where did you find that quote budda? i could find it where alexa said CB did not do much. Can you guys change your quotes after already submitting them?

What game were you watching?

Points 18
Rebounds 5
Assists 9
Turnover 1


:hoops:

I really feel sorry for some of you guys, I really do. 11th win in a row. On the road. Against a playoff team. Tor has a lot of youth, I remember when teams like that used to make us look old, I remember when ALL of our starters had to play extended mins just to eek out a win against a team like that. Tonight we go on the road and beat a good young playoff team by 16 pts, we scored over 100 and held them to 85!!! Only one starter played extended mins, Rip, and it's not like thay've had to do that very often. Our bench outscored theirs 25-5!!!! Our bench rotation consists Stuck-21, AA-21, Jayes-26, & Max-25, and they all played and contributed in a positive way, what the heck is wrong with some of you people.

We have no way of knowing how well the playoffs are going to be until they get here, so why not enjoy the sheer entertainment of watching the team you love kick the crap out of the opposition on a nightly basis. You guys are crying about 10mins of combined playing time for Amir and AA......UNREAL!!!!!

Amir will play, lets see how things play out after the all-star break before we send the Mob after Flip.

Right now Flip does not trust a backcourt of AA and Stuck. Stuck is far more integral to our success this season than AA. Stuck is necessary while AA is icing on the cake. In about a month Stuckey will be very comfortable running the team and at that point AA's mins will indeed go back up. And we will also begin to integrate Amir into the mix, the plan is so obvious it's not even funny. RELAX!!!!!!

Thank you for perfectly summing up my opinion, sir. I'm as cool as a cucumber right now. :MusicBigGrin:

Now comes the tough 3 game stretch (Boston, @Dallas, @SA)

Now comes the tough 3 game stretch (Boston, @Dallas, @SA)
Not to mention that Dal/SA is a back-to-back :cold:. Which has me thinking...look How often teams have to play that Texas triangle, think of all the times a team has a tough game in Hou, Dal, or SA and then has to turn right back around and play one of those teams again. I beat you that Dal, Hou, and SA all get at least 4-5 wins a year as a result of that scheduling, but in all fairness they do have to play each other more than any other team.

Great win. But still no minutes for AJ and only 4 for AA. :stirthepot:

Nice win and its great to keep the streak alive. To me Flip was coaching out of fear of tomorrows game. He did not want to lose both games but the increased mins for the starters could impact that tomorrow. At least the Celtics also played.

That`s it.

Even if we win the championship, if Flip doesn`t give AJ some PT, he should be fired!!

I will make me a sign and protest at every Piston game I can.

Anybody with me??

That`s it.

Even if we win the championship, if Flip doesn`t give AJ some PT, he should be fired!!

I will make me a sign and protest at every Piston game I can.

Anybody with me??

I want a petition for more front court depth. We saw signs in this one on what can happen. Sheed was in early foul trouble so Dyess had to practically play the whole 1st half. What if he also got into foul trouble?

All I am saying is that it could burn us in the post-season.

I really feel sorry for some of you guys, I really do.....
Excellent post KGREG! As Pistons fans, we've been spoiled over the past 5-6 years. I think we need to stop and smell the roses a bit more. Let's enjoy the ride! (as long as the ride ends in a championship) :MusicBigGrin:

Can you guys change your quotes after already submitting them?
Yes, there is a short window of opportunity (10 minutes I think?) to edit your post after submitting it. You'll see a button next to the "quote" button on the bottom right hand side of your own posts.

If you make an edit to your post immediately after submitting it (I think within a minute), there's no way of telling that it was changed. However, if you make a change within the allowable time frame, but later than a minute after posting, you will see a "Last edited by...." line underneath your post. (see the bottom of this post for example)

Hope that made sense.

Nice win and its great to keep the streak alive. To me Flip was coaching out of fear of tomorrows game. He did not want to lose both games but the increased mins for the starters could impact that tomorrow. At least the Celtics also played.

What minutes are we worrying about? Rip was the only one kind of high with 39, but he's supposedly the best conditioned player on the team. Nobody else got more than 35 minutes. Last year we'd have all the starters at or more than 40.

What minutes are we worrying about? Rip was the only one kind of high with 39, but he's supposedly the best conditioned player on the team. Nobody else got more than 35 minutes. Last year we'd have all the starters at or more than 40.

This is the first of a back to back. For that, its too many minutes.

I probably wouldn't have minded the minutes at all if we weren't playing a likely fired up Boston next.

I really feel sorry for some of you guys, I really do. 11th win in a row. On the road. Against a playoff team. Tor has a lot of youth, I remember when teams like that used to make us look old, I remember when ALL of our starters had to play extended mins just to eek out a win against a team like that. Tonight we go on the road and beat a good young playoff team by 16 pts, we scored over 100 and held them to 85!!! Only one starter played extended mins, Rip, and it's not like thay've had to do that very often. Our bench outscored theirs 25-5!!!! Our bench rotation consists Stuck-21, AA-21, Jayes-26, & Max-25, and they all played and contributed in a positive way, what the heck is wrong with some of you people.

We have no way of knowing how well the playoffs are going to be until they get here, so why not enjoy the sheer entertainment of watching the team you love kick the crap out of the opposition on a nightly basis. You guys are crying about 10mins of combined playing time for Amir and AA......UNREAL!!!!!

Amir will play, lets see how things play out after the all-star break before we send the Mob after Flip.

Right now Flip does not trust a backcourt of AA and Stuck. Stuck is far more integral to our success this season than AA. Stuck is necessary while AA is icing on the cake. In about a month Stuckey will be very comfortable running the team and at that point AA's mins will indeed go back up. And we will also begin to integrate Amir into the mix, the plan is so obvious it's not even funny. RELAX!!!!!!

We enjoy the heck out of seeing our team win a championship. And conversely, we hate seeing our team going down the path of mediocraty. If you honestly think we are going down the right path, more power to you, but just because you got your rose colored glasses on, forgive us if we see things as they are.

I absolutely loved watching us win. I loved watching Rip hit his shots, Sheed nail those threes, Billups, with some extra rest lately, looked extra sharp. And I loved that. Lots of fun to watch these things. But yeah, got kind of mad about some things too. After the game, guess what. The warm fuzzies don't last that long from a regular season win, because knowing we ain't going anywhere at this rate just hurts. If you can't figure out what we are talking about, go back just two years. We were pushing for 70 wins. Some of us back then said that was meaningless. Playoff preparation is what counts. Nothing has changed.

You still have the fans who will cheer on mediocraty, while bashing us fans who want more from our team. Pick a side.

the scary thing is that toronto played a very, very solid game, yet still lost by 15. at home.

pistons are looking reaaaaaally good.

We all know what went well (the players). But even in winning 11 in a row, Flip gets on my nerves. He absolutely MUST bring the bench in earlier in the 1st and 3rd quarters. There are very few teams in the league with the kind of depth on this roster, and there are very few teams that run their starters through the entire 1st and 3rd quarter and then some.

The Pistons would be in a much better situation every night if Flip started bringing guys in at the 4-5 minute mark of the 1st and 3rd. That way they'd have a solid 8-9 minutes or so before Flip gets scared @ the 7-8 minute mark in the 4th. As is, they come in early in the 4th, and only have a matter of a couple minutes before Flip yanks them for the starters.

And Primoz on Andrea Bargnani?? Does Flip think just because he's tall and white that Primoz can guard him? Amir is a much better matchup there. Bargs is a perimeter player. Does playing out of control really win you the minutes on this team, or does Flip just dislike Amir by default?


Dice with 34 minutes again in a game where he didn't really have it going. He's up to about 31mpg for the year. He is not made for that. These 30+ minute games should be coming in June, not January.

the scary thing is that toronto played a very, very solid game, yet still lost by 15. at home.

pistons are looking reaaaaaally good.

The Raptors would be a lottery team in the Western Conference.

There are four good teams in the East

Pistons
Celtics
Magic
Cavs

The rest are mediocre or worse.

Right now Utah is a lottery team. They have a better record than every team in the EC except for the Pistons, Celtics and Magic.

In addition we haven't beaten the Jazz in over 2 years.

:hoops:

Regarding Amir Johnson: If I'm Bill Davidson I'm wondering why a guy I'm paying $3 million is sitting on the bench and not being developed except in practice.

Bill to Joe D: "Now, Joe, we made a big deal about re-signing this guy for three years. I don't want to meddle, but as the owner of this team I'm beginning to get curious as to what I am paying for. You may remember that we drafted another guy No. 2 a few years back and he only played in garbage time, too. I want to know what I'm paying for. I'm happy with the team's performance and the stands are filled, but what about the future? In my business, I have always utiltized short-term assets but have also developed long term ones as well. Why can't my basketball team do the same?"

Fact of the matter is, Amir could have definitely played a few minutes last night and given that the Pistons were on the front end of a back to back, AJ shoulda been in there instead of Brezec. Flip's an idiot. There are only certain guys he trusts. He's not willing to let people go in there and mess up to learn anything. Gotta side with Lee on this one, the kid needs to be allowed to make some mistakes and play. Like dlev says, I don't think this matters much in the scheme of winning a 'ship. But it matters down the road. There's too much emphasis on the here and now.

And with the Pistons playing with so much confidence now, they could probably overcome some Amir screw-ups.

Regarding Amir Johnson: If I'm Bill Davidson I'm wondering why a guy I'm paying $3 million is sitting on the bench and not being developed except in practice.

Bill to Joe D: "Now, Joe, we made a big deal about re-signing this guy for three years. I don't want to meddle, but as the owner of this team I'm beginning to get curious as to what I am paying for. You may remember that we drafted another guy No. 2 a few years back and he only played in garbage time, too. I want to know what I'm paying for. I'm happy with the team's performance and the stands are filled, but what about the future? In my business, I have always utiltized short-term assets but have also developed long term ones as well. Why can't my basketball team do the same?"

Fact of the matter is, Amir could have definitely played a few minutes last night and given that the Pistons were on the front end of a back to back, AJ shoulda been in there instead of Brezec. Flip's an idiot. There are only certain guys he trusts. He's not willing to let people go in there and mess up to learn anything. Gotta side with Lee on this one, the kid needs to be allowed to make some mistakes and play. Like dlev says, I don't think this matters much in the scheme of winning a 'ship. But it matters down the road. There's too much emphasis on the here and now.

And with the Pistons playing with so much confidence now, they could probably overcome some Amir screw-ups.

I think that flip doesn't like amir's game. It would have been perfect to put amir in instead of brezec.

We all know what went well (the players). But even in winning 11 in a row, Flip gets on my nerves. He absolutely MUST bring the bench in earlier in the 1st and 3rd quarters. There are very few teams in the league with the kind of depth on this roster, and there are very few teams that run their starters through the entire 1st and 3rd quarter and then some.

The Pistons would be in a much better situation every night if Flip started bringing guys in at the 4-5 minute mark of the 1st and 3rd. That way they'd have a solid 8-9 minutes or so before Flip gets scared @ the 7-8 minute mark in the 4th. As is, they come in early in the 4th, and only have a matter of a couple minutes before Flip yanks them for the starters.

And Primoz on Andrea Bargnani?? Does Flip think just because he's tall and white that Primoz can guard him? Amir is a much better matchup there. Bargs is a perimeter player. Does playing out of control really win you the minutes on this team, or does Flip just dislike Amir by default?


Dice with 34 minutes again in a game where he didn't really have it going. He's up to about 31mpg for the year. He is not made for that. These 30+ minute games should be coming in June, not January.

I agree. He needs to trust the bench more; and I don't get why Arron couldn't have played more - the kid has proven he can play and has earned a spot in the rotation - but he only got 4 minutes. And, I don't buy the argument that Flip doesn't play Amir because his defense isn't good enough - because if that were the case, Brezec, whose defense is like a sieve, would not be playing ahead of him. I agree with Lee, max and ggazoo on this: A 3-big man rotation won't be enough come playoffs.
I agree that Flippy does seem to dislike Amir - he never rewards him for good performances and when he does compliment him, it's always with some veiled criticism thrown in.

Regarding Amir Johnson: If I'm Bill Davidson I'm wondering why a guy I'm paying $3 million...........zzzzzzzz

Ooops he fell asleep again.

Regarding Bill Davidson's thoughts: I'm wondering how Joe Dumars is able to make me 25 million per season. "This franchise thing is really a cash cow." "Who's the guy in the suit". "My program says his name is Flip Saunders". "Hmmmmm.......nice Suit" "Those guys playing are really tall" "Amir........an interesting name"..........

AJ is not ready yet.

He has to add about 15 lbs of muscle before next fall and keep working on his defense. The problem is, is that he just keeps growing so his muscular development can't catch up to the growth in his height. LOL

He also needs to play in the 2008 summer league and pre-season games.


:hoops:

I think Flip knew he could play his bigs a little more and go with a shorter rotation because BOS was playing Memphis. Garnett and Perkins are going to be tired from going against Darko. He helped hold them to 10-15 shooting last night.

I don't know if my eyes are lying to me, but I do not think that AJ is 6'11". If he was I think he would play more.

I think Flip knew he could play his bigs a little more and go with a shorter rotation because BOS was playing Memphis. Garnett and Perkins are going to be tired from going against Darko. He helped hold them to 10-15 shooting last night.

I don't know if my eyes are lying to me, but I do not think that AJ is 6'11". If he was I think he would play more.

I will still rely on AK opinion as to the height of our player's

The problem that most people make in looking at AJ's height is that they think that Sheed is 6'11" when in fact he is at least 7'

:hoops:

I will still rely on AK opinion as to the height of our player's

The problem that most people make in looking at AJ's height is that they think that Sheed is 6'11" when in fact he is at least 7'

:hoops:

I hear you, it is not like I think they're lying. I'm not measuring him against Sheed. They're not on the floor together that often. He seems significantly shorter to me than most players they list at 6'11".

Where did you find that quote budda? i could find it where alexa said CB did not do much. Can you guys change your quotes after already submitting them?
I think alexa edited his/her post after Buddha had quoted it.

That`s it.

Even if we win the championship, if Flip doesn`t give AJ some PT, he should be fired!!

I will make me a sign and protest at every Piston game I can.

Anybody with me??
Sure. It will give us something to do from the loony bin!

AJ is not ready yet.
Thank you. :thumb:

AJ is not ready yet.

He has to add about 15 lbs of muscle before next fall and keep working on his defense. The problem is, is that he just keeps growing so his muscular development can't catch up to the growth in his height. LOL

He also needs to play in the 2008 summer league and pre-season games.


:hoops:

He needs more than summer league games and pre-season games to get ready. He needs some real action. Come to think of it, so do I. :)

I think alexa edited his/her post after Buddha had quoted it.


Sure. It will give us something to do from the loony bin!


Thank you. :thumb:

If if you use Dyess, the edited in name, he had 12 boards last night, so I wouldn't say that he didn't do much.

It is still my position that Sheed doesn't feel AJ is ready yet.

Sheed as we know is his mentor
Sheed also plays against AJ in practice.

Flipper is now listening to Sheed, that is why they are getting along better this year.

Sheed knows best.

It seems to me that if Sheed really felt that the team was better off with AJ being put in the regular rotation, he would make a big stink about it and Flipper would listen to him.

Flipper has shown he will play young guys when they are ready. Last night Maxey played lock down defense in the 4th quarter. No way that he did that in his rookie year or even last year. In my opinion, even if he had been given the opportunity back then he wouldn't have done it.

Patience is the word with regard to AJ getting minutes and getting into the regular rotation. I trust in Sheed and his ability to communicate effectively with Flipper.

:hoops:

It is still my position that Sheed doesn't feel AJ is ready yet.

Sheed as we know is his mentor
Sheed also plays against AJ in practice.

Flipper is now listening to Sheed, that is why they are getting along better this year.

Sheed knows best.

It seems to me that if Sheed really felt that the team was better off with AJ being put in the regular rotation, he would make a big stink about it and Flipper would listen to him.

Flipper has shown he will play young guys when they are ready. Last night Maxey played lock down defense in the 4th quarter. No way that he did that in his rookie year or even last year. In my opinion, even if he had been given the opportunity back then he wouldn't have done it.

Patience is the word with regard to AJ getting minutes and getting into the regular rotation. I trust in Sheed and his ability to communicate effectively with Flipper.

:hoops:

If Sheed is running the team, fire Flip. Simple solution. Me, I would sure like to see us win a championship. Hearing excuses is not something I like at all. Amir must play.

If Sheed is running the team, fire Flip. Simple solution. Me, I would sure like to see us win a championship. Hearing excuses is not something I like at all. Amir must play.

It seem increasingly clear to me that my attempt to explain certain things is being less than successful. However, I won't give up in an attempt to make my points clear enough to be understood.

In any professional organization you have the administrators and non administrators.

Head basketball coaches are more like administrators. It is not their responsibility to get involved in all the detail goings on. That is why they have assistant coaches. Coaches who specialize in a particular area like defense, offense, rebounding etc.

Also there are very few head coaches who are proficient at all aspect of the game, but rather are better in some areas and weaker in others. They then rely on other personnel reporting to them to aid them in making personnel decisions.

It is the same way in a company like Apple. For example the head of the iPod and iPhone groups is not going to be proficient in all the areas of designing developing manufacturing and selling of these items, but is going to rely heavily on the input of those reporting to him/her who have more expertise in a certain area. For example the Group VP may be strong in marketing and a great administrator but weak when it comes to Engineering. Rarely will you ever find someone who is a great engineer who is also a great Marketing person. It does happen, but it is rare.

Now the assistant coaches who report to the head coach work directly with the players in their area of responsibility as a group. This is very helpful to the head coach.

However the assistant coaches don't actually get onto the floor and play during practice or in games, except in the rare case like a player/coach. This is akin to the department managers in an organization like IBM, Apple etc. They don't get involved in the detailed supervision of the individual employees. They leave that up to their supervisors. Now the supervisors also get involved in the detailed day to to day activity in the departments, like the people that report to them do. This is akin to someone like Sheed who would be the supervisor; i.e., mentor of AJ. Sheed gets involved with the on court action but also more closely monitors a AJ's activity and progress than do the assistant coaches or Flipper.

Now in professionally run organizations, what happens is that while the group/section head has a budget and is responsible for that whole group/section, he/she relies on his/her department managers for input with respect to what is going on in the departments of his/her group/section. Those department managers rely heavily on the input of their supervisors; i.e. in this case Sheed, in making departmental personnel changes.

If Flipper is not relying on and using the input of his assistant coaches and his experienced players as a very strong guide in making personnel decisions he is not doing his job correctly.

I hope this explained the situation more clearly.

If not, I will glad to try again to clarify how things work with respect to personnel decisions in a professional organization.

:hoops:

It seem increasingly clear to me that my attempt to explain certain things is being less than successful. However, I won't give up in an attempt to make my points clear enough to be understood.

:hoops:
I think your pretty dead on in this thread.... the veterns are having a say in how things are being run... are they in charge no, but having input... aa was drafted with support of chauncey and prince, stuckey has gotten extra mins because chanucey said leave him in.... and i am sure that sheed and other veterns have as much an idea as the coachs which young players are ready to see the bright lights and who needs more practice... there are no ego's on this team and if they thought something would help us be better now they would say it. remember dyss was happy coming off the bench, he didn't ask to be a starter so I am sure he would give some of his mins to aj.

I think you're on to something round. That is a good theory.

It seem increasingly clear to me that my attempt to explain certain things is being less than successful. However, I won't give up in an attempt to make my points clear enough to be understood.

If Flipper is not relying on and using the input of his assistant coaches and his experienced players as a very strong guide in making personnel decisions he is not doing his job correctly.

I hope this explained the situation more clearly.

If not, I will glad to try again to clarify how things work with respect to personnel decisions in a professional organization.

:hoops:


So are you trying to tell me that the assistant coaches and experienced players on this team are telling Flip that Primoz Brezec is a better basketball player right now then Amir?????

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Brezec would barely keep up with Amir running the floor if Amir was running backwards!!!

I agree that AJ is raw and needs development but on simple athletic ability; AJ would contribute more than Primer.

So are you trying to tell me that the assistant coaches and experienced players on this team are telling Flip that Primoz Brezec is a better basketball player right now then Amir?????

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Brezec would barely keep up with Amir running the floor if Amir was running backwards!!!

I agree that AJ is raw and needs development but on simple athletic ability; AJ would contribute more than Primer.

I did not say that.

Brezec is getting a couple of minutes here and there.

Most likely we are trying to get a better feel how good he is to get some idea of what we could get for him, if anything in a trade.

I also agree with those who are saying that AJ will get minutes after the trade deadline, unless of course we trade for a big that can actually play.

:hoops:

I did not say that.

Brezec is getting a couple of minutes here and there.

Most likely we are trying to get a better feel how good he is to get some idea of what we could get for him, if anything in a trade.

I also agree with those who are saying that AJ will get minutes after the trade deadline, unless of course we trade for a big that can actually play.

:hoops:I'm not disagreeing but can't they figure out his ability in practice? I mean, isn't practice where Flip figures out if you are ready to play? Maxiell, Darko, Delfino, Amir...they all sat thru games and had to show readiness in practices before regular spot minutes. just a question.

I'm not disagreeing but can't they figure out his ability in practice? I mean, isn't practice where Flip figures out if you are ready to play? Maxiell, Darko, Delfino, Amir...they all sat thru games and had to show readiness in practices before regular spot minutes. just a question.
I think it is historically been that if you're a rookie on a good team, most of the time you'll be stuck to the bench and have to earn minutes in practice.

I'm not disagreeing but can't they figure out his ability in practice? I mean, isn't practice where Flip figures out if you are ready to play? Maxiell, Darko, Delfino, Amir...they all sat thru games and had to show readiness in practices before regular spot minutes. just a question.

I would normally agree with you but in this case Brezec doesn't finish dressing until after practice is over. LOL

:hoops: