Why does the Chicago press and Bulls management give the living corpse with a bad attitude, Ben Wallace, a pass while analyzing the Bulls woes? He can barely reach the rim on one of his many missed dunks. He loafs down the court more than any other Bull. He doesn't need time outs because he takes them while the game is in progress. His FG and FT percentages are dead last in the NBA. He can no longer rebound except to tap them out like a volleyball player. He is constantly sulking and forces the team to play five against four most of the time, except for his one active game per week when like Count Dracula he arises from his casket to actually get involved. And yet, you seem to obsess over the most active and physically gifted, albiet young and immature athlete, Tyrus Thomas, to blame on the Bulls failures. --Jack Marr, Tucson, Ariz.

Ben's gotten his share of criticism, I believe, though we don't expect as much from him anymore than we did from Tyrus. We all knew Ben was on the way down. We just didn't know how fast. I assume the Bulls will try to move him if they can as he was brought here for a serious playoff run, not where the team is now.



Sam Smith's NBA mailbag on ChicagoSports.com (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/askthewriter/cs-071231asksamsmith,1,5093666.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Ouch. That was a cold blooded analysis.

Bulls and Cavs were discussing Kirk Hinrich and Ben Wallace for Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes.

I've been unable to confirm if there have been such discussions. But I know the Cavs have locker-room and chemistry chaos. Damon Jones and Ira Newble declined to enter games last week, and the Cavs are desperate to deal Hughes. His contract—money and years—pretty much matches Wallace's, and if the Bulls can find anyone to take Wallace's contract, you'd think they would. Interesting how quickly his sore foot healed.



Cavs-Bulls deal at least piques interest on ChicagoSports.com (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071230samsmithnotes,1,4245289.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

What would the Cavs do with Varjeo AND Ben? Too many energy guys with big hair for one team.

What would the Cavs do with Varjeo AND Ben? Too many energy guys with big hair for one team.
Looks like as long as they can ship Hughes out of there, they're ready to experiment. :pound:

Cavs-Bulls deal at least piques interest on ChicagoSports.com (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071230samsmithnotes,1,4245289.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Not sure I'd like to see that.

Hinrich could really help the Cavs, taking pressure off LBJ to bring the ball up, and spotting up for loads of open threes. Question would be if he is that much of an upgrade over an up and coming Boobie.

Ben at the 4 spot roaming all over the place while Z held down the middle could also be pretty interesting. On the other end, toss the ball to Z down low and if the double comes, drop it off to Ben for a dunk. And Ben would be POed enough at being traded to get seriously fired up.

They would be worse.

Hinrich and Ben are horrible this year.

Gooden is a pretty solid contributor for them right now. 13 pts/9rebs per game.

Bulls need a new GM. They would be a terrible deal for them. Great for Cleveland.

Bulls need a new GM. They would be a terrible deal for them. Great for Cleveland.
Bulls needed a new GM for a while.

i'm likin Sam Smith comments and answers to the Bulls woes much more than Chris mccoskys nonsense. Especially the comment about Kevin McHale working for two teams, Minnesota and Boston...classic. When Mchale gets fired, he will be working with Garnett and Ainge again...in Boston.:)

Watching the Blazers and Bulls tonight, Ben's defense has really fallen. Of course, he has no offense, whatsoever. Doug Collins just pointed out what a liability he is on offense because they don't even guard Ben. Joe D made a great move by not breaking the bank signing the guy.

Watching the Blazers and Bulls tonight, Ben's defense has really fallen. Of course, he has no offense, whatsoever. Doug Collins just pointed out what a liability he is on offense because they don't even guard Ben. Joe D made a great move by not breaking the bank signing the guy.

I am watching this game also, and this is certainly not the Big Ben we witnessed in a Piston uni. I have come to the conclusion it`s because of the talent around him. Let`s face it, there is a serious drop off with the current Bulls roster and the Piston team Ben left.

Asking Ben to be the same as a Bull might be impossible.

Watching the Blazers and Bulls tonight, Ben's defense has really fallen. Of course, he has no offense, whatsoever. Doug Collins just pointed out what a liability he is on offense because they don't even guard Ben. Joe D made a great move by not breaking the bank signing the guy.

I was checking Rodman's offensive numbers to see how they compared to Big Ben's

Rodman had an amazing offensive statistic

In his 14 years in the league his points per 40 minutes fell from the preceding year 9 times out of 13 possibilites and rose only twice!!!

In his rookie year he averaged 17.3 points per 40 minutes and in his last full season he averaged only 5.3 points per 40 minutes

Dennis Rodman Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html)

:hoops:

Whoa game tied, 40 sec left Roy to the bucket, blocked by Ben. Now, that`s the Ben I know....................!!!

Whoa game tied, 40 sec left Roy to the bucket, blocked by Ben. Now, that`s the Ben I know....................!!!

Man, Roy is tough. It's no surprise they named that Rookie Of the Year award after him last season.

What a weapon Ben Gordon would be on a team that had a player that demanded a double team in the post...............Wow!

Ben keeps leaving Aldridge wide open. He should have learned his lesson 4 or 5 jump shots ago...

Damn entertaining game.....

Joe Smith with 30 points tonight. That surpasses the total that he scored in one full season with the Pistons....

double OT!!! Ben Gordon and Joe Smith Smith 30 points!! each... His career high was 38 in 1997, but I doubt that he has topped 30 since the new millenium:)

I remember seeing M. Webster's name in the TB's box score and thinking, has "The Human Eraser" come out of retirement?
Is Martell his son?

Marvin Webster Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma01.html)

:hoops:

More fallout from Noah's suspension:


But the other player behind the crackdown was none other than Ben Wallace, the $60 million stiff, who is notorious in the league for his incidents with coaches. Remember when he blew off Skiles' no-headband rule? Remember when he refused to enter a game in Detroit, defying Flip Saunders? I can't imagine Noah viewing Big Ben as anything but a hypocrite.


Why let players run Bulls asylum? :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Jay Mariotti (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/739926,mariotti011408c2.article)

Recent comment from blogabull.com:


I owe Skiles an apology
I was as critical of his failure to play the young players as anyone, but at least he had the balls to limit Wallace's minutes. From what we've seen from Boylan, that might have been the REAL reason Skiles was canned, not because of his unwillingness to play Thomas and Noah. If the Bulls want to let a rapidly declining player like Ben Wallace practically run the organization, then they deserve to go into the toilet alongside Wallace's game

I do not like BlogaBull. I wrote them a long time ago, asking that they change their name to BlogaBen. They didn't do that.

I do not like BlogaBull. I wrote them a long time ago, asking that they change their name to BlogaBen. They didn't do that.
:pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:

I do not like BlogaBull. I wrote them a long time ago, asking that they change their name to BlogaBen. They didn't do that.

That would too confusing.

BlogaBen Gorden?

:hoops:

Blogabull has a link called blogging with the enemy. Before every game they link up to the opponents blogs to see what they are talking about. I emailed them to put pf.com up there but they haven't.

Blogabull has a link called blogging with the enemy. Before every game they link up to the opponents blogs to see what they are talking about. I emailed them to put pf.com up there but they haven't.
If the Bulls were any good, they probably would add us.

Good looking out Bills, you're carrying your weight as a co-owner. :thumb:

Things just continue to pile on.



Paxson knew when he signed Wallace in 2006 and drafted Noah last June he was getting strange dudes with limited basketball skills. Pax never would admit it now, but he must be stunned about the degrees of their strangeness and limitations.
The GM could find a taker for Noah, an athletic, young and relatively low-paid 7-footer. But what's Paxson supposed to do about Wallace, an overpaid, undersized, old man?
Throw in all the underachievers and crybabies on the roster, and it's quite an outfit Pax has assembled.
Boylan obviously can't handle these loons. Will Paxson want to saddle the next coach with Wallace? Maybe Pax can convince team chairman Jerry Reinsdorf to eat Big Ben's big contract and dump the Afro-stylin' hypocrite. Of course, if the Bulls let Wallace go, who will work with Noah on his free-throw shooting? See what I mean about this being a farce? You couldn't make up this stuff if you wanted.


PJStar.com - Journal Star Sports story (http://www.pjstar.com/stories/011708/MIK_BFH3MHKS.077.php)

That is a roast. Talk about player hatin'!

The same Big Ben who, statistically, is the most overpaid healthy athlete on earth.

I would contend that Brian Cardinal is ahead of him.

That is a roast. Talk about player hatin'!

I would contend that Brian Cardinal is ahead of him.
The money's not the same. :)

More of the disgruntled Chicagoans (?). Warning: foul language involved.

The Chicago Bulls Are Done - HoopsVibe (http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-articles/the-chicago-bulls-are-done-ar47016.html)


Noah may look like a rat-faced %%%%% but he’s one tough kid to stand up to the cancer, the plague that is Ben Wallace (http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-players/ben-wallace-ar21233.html). This team is officially in rebuild mode starting now.

Deep frustraiton is totally justified but IMO, most of those proposale are purely fantasy...great coaches do not grow on trees, (great)players usually do not want to resign and free agents to sign with bad-climate teams.

All of this sort of stuff reminds me of what a stable environment Joe has created in Detroit. Miami, LA, Cleveland, Chicago, NJ, Inidana... all of our rivals have meltdowns while we generally hover at the top. At least during Joe's tenure so far.

Managing the payroll is a big part of this. Not just in terms of keeping good players, but avoiding situations where players are jealous of others and are constantly comparing themselves to higher paid players.

We have a definite pecking order, which is pretty much earned. Our best players tend to be the oldest ones and the highest paid. Our young players seem to know enough to say the right things and work hard.

I'm to lazy too look for that but Nazr mentioned, that he misses that family feeling, where nobody is overlooked.

Reading profanity and insults about Ben Wallace from disgruntled Bulls fans and Pf.com members who apparently agree with them is beyond the pale.

Ben is no longer a Piston. The only possible function for this thread is so that forum members who are still angry at Ben for leaving Detroit can gloat and then recite as a mantra. "Isn't it great that Joe didn't pay Ben because he is in decline and is a locker room cancer and just plain sucks as we always knew he did." Repeat 100 times to maintain delusions.

Long after the other members of the Best Starting Four have faded into oblivion, there will still be the legacy of Detroit Piston Big Ben Wallace, an undrafted defensive player who made a huge contribution towards the only ring the Pistons have won in the last 18 years. To date, Flip Saunders and the guard-centered offense have failed in pursuit of same.

I have to do what I can to stem the tide of the Ben hating, which seems to be on the rise around here. I decided a while ago that the only way to deal with the Darko and Ben emotional intensity black holes in here was not to engage. I slipped a little here, because the offense to Ben was so agregious IMO.

"Isn't it great that Joe didn't pay Ben because he is in decline and is a locker room cancer and just plain sucks as we always knew he did."

I don't know of anyone of this forum besides yourself that had said the above.

I have said that in my opinion that Ben was not worth the amount that the Bulls paid him and am glad that the Pistons didn't sign him for that amount because it would have put us in a difficult financial structure. (Others have said the same thing). I have also said that I would have loved for the Pistons to have signed him for some lesser amount that fit our salary structure.

I have also said that Big Ben and Flipper did not get along. That is in fact a truth. I have also said that it is the coaches responsibility to get along with his players.

I don't know anyone except yourself that has used the word in reference to Big Ben that you used in your last sentence quoted above.

:hoops:

That is in fact a truth. I have also said that it is the coaches responsibility to get along with his players.


:hoops:


You maybe do not smell a danger there - such presumption leads to possibility that players start blackmailing. In my opinion, teamowners hire players to get results as a team, if player wants to develope personal career, fine, but do not ask TEAMowners money for this.

Reading profanity and insults about Ben Wallace from disgruntled Bulls fans and Pf.com members who apparently agree with them is beyond the pale.

Ben is no longer a Piston. The only possible function for this thread is so that forum members who are still angry at Ben for leaving Detroit can gloat and then recite as a mantra. "Isn't it great that Joe didn't pay Ben because he is in decline and is a locker room cancer and just plain sucks as we always knew he did." Repeat 100 times to maintain delusions.

Long after the other members of the Best Starting Four have faded into oblivion, there will still be the legacy of Detroit Piston Big Ben Wallace, an undrafted defensive player who made a huge contribution towards the only ring the Pistons have won in the last 18 years. To date, Flip Saunders and the guard-centered offense have failed in pursuit of same.

I have to do what I can to stem the tide of the Ben hating, which seems to be on the rise around here. I decided a while ago that the only way to deal with the Darko and Ben emotional intensity black holes in here was not to engage. I slipped a little here, because the offense to Ben was so agregious IMO.
I guess since I started this thread I felt like I should comment. I am just bringing the news and reactions, not necessarily blaming Ben for leaving or anything. There was a lot written about him here and in Chicago and opinions vary. It doesn't diminish the current issue that he's paid lots of money without producing to compensate. That's all there is to it. I am thankful for him for the years he played in Detroit and the championship, but I can't dwell in the past.

I'm open to the possibility that Ben is so loyal to the Pistons organization that he was sent to Chicago on a mission to beat the Bulls... from within. Not sure why he beats us everytime he plays us though. Maybe so it's not so obvious? Yes, that must be it.

BEN WALLACE/JOAKIM NOAH INCIDENT: Wouldn't happen with Pistons, team says

January 18, 2008
BY KRISTA JAHNKE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER


BEN WALLACE/JOAKIM NOAH INCIDENT: Wouldn't happen with Pistons, team says (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080118/SPORTS03/80118011/1051)

:hoops:

The Bulls are suffering from a big ol' nasty case of over-hype. If they hadn't played above their heads the last month of the season last year they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs. But, they got all excited over beating a Heat team that in hindsight was well on the way down, then overpaid for Ben who also in hindsight has perhaps his best days behind him, and then failed to pull the trigger to shore up some glaring weaknesses in the team via a trade.

And they probably started to listen to all the pundits who claimed the championship was theirs this season if they just showed up. Add in a coach not willing to pander to the wunderkind, and you get 15 and 22. Sorry Pax, your head is on the block.

I'm open to the possibility that Ben is so loyal to the Pistons organization that he was sent to Chicago on a mission to beat the Bulls... from within. Not sure why he beats us everytime he plays us though. Maybe so it's not so obvious? Yes, that must be it.

Loyality to contract is far more important...

I was angry when Ben turned down 50 mill to stay with the Pistons in order to get 60 mill with the Bulls. I've said this before, and when I do someone invariably says they'd like to see what I would do if I was in the same position.

Well for starters the difference between 50 MILLION and 60 MILLION dollars to me seems not so significant because either means that my family is set for generations.

And next you have the added pressures that signing for 60 mill placed on Ben. He was viewed by many as the 'missing piece' that would put the Bulls in title contention. Those are some heavy expectations. On the other hand, there was a general feeling that he had already earned his 50 mill with the Pistons, and so the expectations wouldn't have risen much from what they were.

If he would have taken the 50 mill to stay with Detroit there would still be some Pistons fans bemoaning his contract during this decline, but he'd still have a loyal following at the Palace and would undoubtedly have his jersey hung from the rafters after he retired.

The other thing to consider is that Ben may have been a better fit with the Pistons, because of the way that he gelled with Rasheed. They were very complimentary players. Ben liked to do the dirty work and Sheed could pull his defender all the way out to the 3-point line.

The Bulls just have too many guys like Ben Wallace and no post presence at all. It makes it difficult for him to do his thing.

If he were still on the Pistons, I'm not sure that everyone would agree that he is in a rapid decline.

Even though the Bulls are in last place in our division, it is not out of the question to think that they could still make the playoffs.

1) Bos 31-6 (will win their division)
2) Det 29-10 (will win Central)
3) Orl 24-17 (will probably win their division)
4) Was 20-17- probably safe
5) Cle 21-18- on the rise, Bulls can't catch them
6) Tor 21-18- probably safe
7) Atl 17-18- who knows
8) NJ 18-20- maybe they will rebuild?
9) Ind 18-22- same number of losses as Chicago
10) Mil 16-23- more losses than Chicago
11) Chi- 15-22

So really, all Chicago has to do is play slightly better than .500 ball for the rest of the season to have a chance of slipping into the 7/8 spot. Of all the teams who are out of it, they have the best chance.

I think that best case scenario, they get the 8 spot and wear Boston out a bit in the first round. Then they'll have to play the Lebron's in the 2nd round. Then us. We may be better off in the #2 spot b/c of all this. We'll plough through Atlanta and Orlando.

Recent Ben attack from a Blogabull Ben hater:


Just wondering,

has anyone seen a starting center with numbers like Wallace's on a playoff team? Namely,
4.6 points/game on 34.9% fg & 44.9% ft. 8.8 rbs in 32:17 min
34.9% for a center? Even if he were still the Defensive Player of the Year I think we would have trouble winning with those mind-numbing statistics.

Here's from outside Chicago:

Clock's ticking on Big Ben -- OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/cs-080120samsmith,0,499185.column)

Though no one among the Bulls is going to admit it, the beginning of the end for Ben Wallace probably came Saturday night. It was against the Pistons with Joakim Noah taking all the minutes down the stretch as the ball-deflecting, shot-blocking, offensive-rebounding, bad-free-throw-shooting, bad-hair guy.

It was an inevitable progression, one likely scheduled to have begun next season after a winning 2007-08. The events of the last month probably sped up the pace, so now the question is what to do with Wallace.

Here's from outside Chicago:

Clock's ticking on Big Ben -- OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/cs-080120samsmith,0,499185.column)

Not really outside Chicago since Sam is a Chicago beat writer.

Still, interesting notion that the Bulls should move Ben not because he can't help, but because the team is lottery bound and is wasting money on an older player.

Sounds like Ben ends his career on a low note. I remember when I used to call him Big Ben. He's not so big anymore. Kinda sad that he's still playing. Pistons aren't certainly interested in him for next season. Too much money.......I miss his skills......

I was angry when Ben turned down 50 mill to stay with the Pistons in order to get 60 mill with the Bulls. I've said this before, and when I do someone invariably says they'd like to see what I would do if I was in the same position.

Well for starters the difference between 50 MILLION and 60 MILLION dollars to me seems not so significant because either means that my family is set for generations.


To the difference between 50 million and 60 million is 10 million. Thats 20%. If I was offered a job going from 55000 to 67000 a year, like I'm going to pass that up.

To the difference between 50 million and 60 million is 10 million. Thats 20%. If I was offered a job going from 55000 to 67000 a year, like I'm going to pass that up.

What if you knew you would be unqualified for the 67,000 job and would be embarrassed on a daily basis as your customers complained to management about you?

I would still have the belief in myself that I could do it. Its a risk you take in any new job.

What if you knew you would be unqualified for the 67,000 job and would be embarrassed on a daily basis as your customers complained to management about you?

What would you do if you would get the money even if you didn't work?

What if you have to leave all of your friends and go work on group projects with guys like Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah... and Scott Skiles was going to be your new boss?

What if you have to leave all of your friends and go work on group projects with guys like Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah... and Scott Skiles was going to be your new boss?


What if you couldn't wear your headband to work?

What if you couldn't wear your headband to work?

What if you were forced to wear $15 shoes?

http://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/starbury-big-ben-wallace-signature-shoe-1.jpg

What if you had to shower with your co-workers after work every single day?

What if you were forced to wear $15 shoes?

http://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/starbury-big-ben-wallace-signature-shoe-1.jpg

Hey I got my sons the Big Ben tee-shirts for Christmas at Steve and Barry's and they won't wear them>>>??

I don't know what the problem is, they have no problem whippin' us.

Man, I'm so glad Ben's contract wasn't extended. I'd be whining all over about his decline and about the impossibility to win the ship with him.
He simply hasn't been his old self for 2-3 seasons and will never be again.
But geez, that old Ben was a helluva playa!

Man, I'm so glad Ben's contract wasn't extended. I'd be whining all over about his decline and about the impossibility to win the ship with him.
He simply hasn't been his old self for 2-3 seasons and will never be again.
But geez, that old Ben was a helluva playa!

Probably will help Joe D. decide on whether to offer Sheed a new contract.

:hoops:

Probably will help Joe D. decide on whether to offer Sheed a new contract.

:hoops:
If it does help, then it's not that bad I guess.

we loss to the bulls in the regular season as some sort of payof that joe and paxson worked out for them taking his contract issue off our hands.... GRIN

but in all seriousness, i can't think that ben given a do over wouldn't have taken the money and ran..... sure money is great and all, but when you make as much as they make what really besides prestigue do you get with a couple extra million and the hit he's taking in respect and status is not worth the money now i bet.

RosenBlog | ChicagoSports | Blog (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/01/for-bulls-it-fi.html)


Joakim Noah (http://chicagosports.sportsdirectinc.com/basketball/nba-boxscores.aspx?page=/data/NBA/results/2007-2008/recap754278.html) had 14 points, 15 rebounds and more minutes than Ben Wallace. I have Feb. 4 in Seattle in the When Does Ben Try To Blow Up The Team Again Pool.


This guy just seems to love Ben.

Minnesota (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/min) 83, Chicago (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/chi) 67



NBA - Chicago Bulls/Minnesota Timberwolves Box Score Wednesday January 30, 2008 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008013016)

:hoops:

Probably will help Joe D. decide on whether to offer Sheed a new contract.

:hoops:
Joe runs this team like a corp payroll dept.

Wanted: Veteran Big Man.
Experience: At least 8 years and 1 all-star appearance.
Duties: Spot mins against big centers, rebound and score a few points when needed. Must be able to mentor young up and comming frontcourt players.
Salary:$3-$6 Million, depending on experience and skills.

Please have agent contact: John Hammond, at 5 Championship Dr. Auburn Hills, Mi.

I am watching the Bulls - Jazz game and it looks like Big Ben has pulled a Pudge and bulked down.

He looks smaller in the upper body and arms than he did with us in his prime.

:hoops:

I am watching the Bulls - Jazz game and it looks like Big Ben has pulled a Pudge and bulked down.

He looks smaller in the upper body and arms than he did with us in his prime.

:hoops:

I noticed the same thing,too. Ben seems smaller to me. He looks less muscular, i guess everyone is laying off the steriods nowadays.

I noticed the same thing,too. Ben seems smaller to me. He looks less muscular, i guess everyone is laying off the steriods nowadays.

I don't even want to think about the possibility that Ben had been juiced up all the years he was with us.

Though it did occur to me that his career did quite suddenly skyrocket after we got him in the trade. Maybe there is more to Arnie's methods than we know.

:stirthepot:

I am watching the Bulls - Jazz game and it looks like Big Ben has pulled a Pudge and bulked down.

He looks smaller in the upper body and arms than he did with us in his prime.

:hoops:

I've noticed he looked different as well, couldn't pinpoint it really, but he does look smaller. I thought it was just the disconnect i had from him now that he's not on the Pistons anymore.

As for Sheed. I think Joe D offering him another contract depends on where the team is at (contending/rebuilding). His talent esp his offensive skills will keep him effective for a long time in the league. Even if we signed/traded him, i think he would actually bring us good (but not equal) value back.

I don't see Joe giving up Sheed unless we're in total rebuild mode or he wants to leave. As long as Sheed is committed to this team, he'll stay.

I don't even want to think about the possibility that Ben had been juiced up all the years he was with us.

Though it did occur to me that his career did quite suddenly skyrocket after we got him in the trade. Maybe there is more to Arnie's methods than we know.

:stirthepot:


Arnie could have changed Bens diet and gotten the same results that other guys get with a needle.

Steroids are for guys that dont know anything about how to maximize the effect of diet and training on biochemistry.

I don't think the NBA started cracking down on testing until 2006 so it is possible. I can't see it though. Most likely has not been working out like he used to.

Come on now. Ben wasn't juice'n. He's just getting older.

By the way, there was a really coincidental stat line from Ben Wallace and Darko tonight.

Ben-
38 minutes
7 rebounds
2 assists
2 steals
3 blocks

Darko-
39 minutes
7 rebounds
2 assists
2 steals
3 blocks

On the other hand Milicic scored 14 points, which Wallace hasn't done in 11 months.

On the other other hand Milicic came up as a -18 in +/-, while Wallace was -11.

On the fourth hand it seems that Memphis now has the attitude that they paid for Darko's services and they'll leave him on the court as their only big man until he physically collapses, whereas Chicago's trying desperately to unload Ben, playing him minutes he doesn't deserve over Noah just to maintain the fiction that he's still an impact player.

Come on now. Ben wasn't juice'n.

Save Money, Build Muscle, Cycle Your Supplements! (http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q40/boykiad/ben.jpg)

On the other hand Milicic scored 14 points, which Wallace hasn't done in 11 months.

On the other other hand Milicic came up as a -18 in +/-, while Wallace was -11.

On the fourth hand it seems that Memphis now has the attitude that they paid for Darko's services and they'll leave him on the court as their only big man until he physically collapses, whereas Chicago's trying desperately to unload Ben, playing him minutes he doesn't deserve over Noah just to maintain the fiction that he's still an impact player.

What a sad end one of american dreams: from undrafted to all-star. Chancey stayed in pistons for less money(he could have gotten more easily) but the most important thing is - he is happy.

I would really like to think he is just is not working out as much anymore. When you get old; i.e. over 30 (LOL) you start to lose the muscle tone pretty fast unless you keep at on a regular and rigorous basis and the older you get the faster you lose it and the harder it is to replace it.

:hoops:

What a sad end one of american dreams: from undrafted to all-star. Chancey stayed in pistons for less money(he could have gotten more easily) but the most important thing is - he is happy.

you have to wonder if the two of them talked and ben said be smart stay in detroit.

Chancey stayed in pistons for less money(he could have gotten more easily) but the most important thing is - he is happy.
That simply ain't true. There was absolutely no market for CB last off season and JoeD may have given him even more than would have been needed to make him stay.
As for Ben, I can imagine he was or still juicin'- but he's definetely not the only one in the league.

That simply ain't true. There was absolutely no market for CB last off season and JoeD may have given him even more than would have been needed to make him stay.
As for Ben, I can imagine he was or still juicin'- but he's definetely not the only one in the league.

Doubt, whether dumars was ready to give him ever more: seems that he has to follow Davidson's order to stay under lux tax.

Poor Ben. All he ever wanted was a coach that would respect his offense. After 3 DPY's that of course would be on any ones priority list.

Poor Ben. All he ever wanted was a coach that would respect his offense. After 3 DPY's that of course would be on any ones priority list.

At his age athlete should be able to acknowledge his plusses and minuses, reality was that his O was ineffective and common sense says that he had to accept it.

You're going to Utah!

Utah?


Ben Wallace (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/436/ben_wallace/) appears to be on the block, being offered to the Lakers (http://lakers.realgm.com/) before Pau Gasol (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/91/pau_gasol/) landed in L.A., and more recently being linked to the Knicks.

Another scenario, Sam Smith (:nerd2:) of the Chicago (http://bulls.realgm.com/) Tribune is reporting, could be sending Wallace to the Utah Jazz (http://jazz.realgm.com/) for Andrei Kirilenko (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/500/andrei_kirilenko/).

According to Smith, trading Kirilenko for Wallace would save the Jazz (http://jazz.realgm.com/) $21 million as Kirilenko is paid more annually than Wallace. With an extension, most likely for the max, coming up for Deron Williams (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1083/deron_williams/) it may make sense.

In the off season Kirilenko was upset at the Jazz (http://jazz.realgm.com/) and asked to be traded, and while his play and attitude do not appear to have been a distraction for Utah (http://jazz.realgm.com/) this season, he has never actually rescinded that trade request.

You're going to Utah!

Utah?

Wow Sloan and Ben Wallace? Ben will get like 0 touches out there. Will Ben be the thing that drives Jerry into retirement?

Also said in that article that NewYork is on Bens wish list.

Wow Sloan and Ben Wallace? Ben will get like 0 touches out there. Will Ben be the thing that drives Jerry into retirement?

Also said in that article that NewYork is on Bens wish list.

pigs are flying when ben says that NY is on his wishlist

I HATE THIS THREAD. IT'S SO UGLY TOWARD BEN IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. IT MAKES ME WONDER WHETHER SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE EVEN PISTONS FANS THAT YOU COULD BE SO MEAN SPIRITED AND VINDICTIVE AS TO SUGGEST HE TOOK STEROIDS WHEN HE WAS A PISTON. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE? I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANY OF YOU WHO FIND YOUR BITTER ENTERTAINMENT AT BEN'S EXPENSE. HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST STARTING FIVE! HE HELPED US WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP! WTF is the matter with you people?

Ben Wallace will always be remembered as a special player in the NBA, whenever he retires. He is and will be respected by his peers over the long haul. Let's compare that to the people on this forum who are having fun ridiculing him. Posting on this forum, entertaining as it might be, is no claim to fame and very far from the accomplishments of Ben Wallace, which you, who claim to be Pistons fans, ought not to be dragging through the mud and practicing revisionist history. You are mediocre people who will never be remembered for being ANYTHING except being backstabbing fans. STFU.

Roscoe, I am sorry. As you probably know I have written so many responses to the posts in this thread and deleted them all because I didn't want to make trouble. But I am tired of being part of what I suspect is the silent majority of forum members who still appreciate Ben, despite his declining performance.

Speculating about and alleging steroid use is a serious thing. These people need to get a life before someone sues them for defamation of character.

Oh and by the way great game tonight. Love the Stuckey and Amir action. Why does Primoz do that crazy thing where everytime before he gives the ball to the ref he bounces it three short bounces? It's really a strang behavior. Anyone else notice that?

Maybe in the interest of forum peace we should close this thread.

:hoops:

i won't comment on what he might have or might not have done while he was here..... but when he turned his back on detroit fans he gave us a blank check to turn our backs on him.....

I will thank him for his past efforts and remember him fondly for what he did in the PAST.

Today he is just like Kobe, Wade, and every other player not a piston..... He's the enemy and gets what comes with that....

Don't see anybody going out of there way defending Isiah who did more then Ben ever thought of doing for the pistons.

I HATE THIS THREAD. IT'S SO UGLY TOWARD BEN IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. IT MAKES ME WONDER WHETHER SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE EVEN PISTONS FANS THAT YOU COULD BE SO MEAN SPIRITED AND VINDICTIVE AS TO SUGGEST HE TOOK STEROIDS WHEN HE WAS A PISTON. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE? I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANY OF YOU WHO FIND YOUR BITTER ENTERTAINMENT AT BEN'S EXPENSE. HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST STARTING FIVE! HE HELPED US WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP! WTF is the matter with you people?

Ben Wallace will always be remembered as a special player in the NBA, whenever he retires. He is and will be respected by his peers over the long haul. Let's compare that to the people on this forum who are having fun ridiculing him. Posting on this forum, entertaining as it might be, is no claim to fame and very far from the accomplishments of Ben Wallace, which you, who claim to be Pistons fans, ought not to be dragging through the mud and practicing revisionist history. You are mediocre people who will never be remembered for being ANYTHING except being backstabbing fans. STFU.

Roscoe, I am sorry. As you probably know I have written so many responses to the posts in this thread and deleted them all because I didn't want to make trouble. But I am tired of being part of what I suspect is the silent majority of forum members who still appreciate Ben, despite his declining performance.

Speculating about and alleging steroid use is a serious thing. These people need to get a life before someone sues them for defamation of character.

Oh and by the way great game tonight. Love the Stuckey and Amir action. Why does Primoz do that crazy thing where everytime before he gives the ball to the ref he bounces it three short bounces? It's really a strang behavior. Anyone else notice that?

I am sorry. I was just trying to make a joke. I love Ben and the Pistons!!

I HATE THIS THREAD. IT'S SO UGLY TOWARD BEN IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. IT MAKES ME WONDER WHETHER SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE EVEN PISTONS FANS THAT YOU COULD BE SO MEAN SPIRITED AND VINDICTIVE AS TO SUGGEST HE TOOK STEROIDS WHEN HE WAS A PISTON. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE? I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANY OF YOU WHO FIND YOUR BITTER ENTERTAINMENT AT BEN'S EXPENSE. HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST STARTING FIVE! HE HELPED US WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP! WTF is the matter with you people?

Ben Wallace will always be remembered as a special player in the NBA, whenever he retires. He is and will be respected by his peers over the long haul. Let's compare that to the people on this forum who are having fun ridiculing him. Posting on this forum, entertaining as it might be, is no claim to fame and very far from the accomplishments of Ben Wallace, which you, who claim to be Pistons fans, ought not to be dragging through the mud and practicing revisionist history. You are mediocre people who will never be remembered for being ANYTHING except being backstabbing fans. STFU.

Roscoe, I am sorry. As you probably know I have written so many responses to the posts in this thread and deleted them all because I didn't want to make trouble. But I am tired of being part of what I suspect is the silent majority of forum members who still appreciate Ben, despite his declining performance.

Speculating about and alleging steroid use is a serious thing. These people need to get a life before someone sues them for defamation of character.

Oh and by the way great game tonight. Love the Stuckey and Amir action. Why does Primoz do that crazy thing where everytime before he gives the ball to the ref he bounces it three short bounces? It's really a strang behavior. Anyone else notice that?

I've posted in this thread one or two times generally commenting on things going on with Ben, and speculation on his CHI days. I don't think it's so much people bashing Ben as much as there's still an interest in Ben and what's going on with him b/c he was a huge part of the Pistons. There are some things in the post that do thread/cross the line (the steroids thing being one of them), but people are entitled to post their opinion. Yes, it's negative at times, but that's b/c Ben has been a negative in CHI, and the way he left the Pistons wasn't exactly amicable.

Maybe some people miss Ben and get a satisfaction that he's not doing well in CHI as a sign he should've stayed. Or some ppl are glad we're not the ones paying him. Whichever.

Point being the steroids thing was over the line, but i don't really have a problem with the general thread.

You tell 'em Kim. I still love Ben Wallace. Went to see the Sonics vs. Bulls just to see Ben play.

Encouraging different points of view is a focus of this forum, but making unsubstantiated allegations crosses the line.

If someone is going to allege that a player is using drugs, be responsible, back it up with facts/source, or please find another forum to post on.

i won't comment on what he might have or might not have done while he was here..... but when he turned his back on detroit fans he gave us a blank check to turn our backs on him.....

I will thank him for his past efforts and remember him fondly for what he did in the PAST.

Today he is just like Kobe, Wade, and every other player not a piston..... He's the enemy and gets what comes with that....

Don't see anybody going out of there way defending Isiah who did more then Ben ever thought of doing for the pistons.

Thats the way I feel. I do appreciate what he has done, we would not have rebuilt without him. But he did kind of spit in our faces in the end there so its a difficult subject.

Encouraging different points of view is a focus of this forum, but making unsubstantiated allegations crosses the line.

If someone is going to allege that a player is using drugs, be responsible, back it up with facts/source, or please find another forum to post on.

People sometimes read what they want into things that they read.

Saying that Big Ben looked muscled down like Pudge in no way implies that Big Ben used any illegal substances whether illegal then or now. Pudge has never been charged with using illegal drugs.

:hoops:

People sometimes read what they want into things that they read.

Saying that Big Ben looked muscled down like Pudge in no way implies that Big Ben used any illegal substances whether illegal then or now. Pudge has never been charged with using illegal drugs.

I don't think your post was the issue.

:hoops:

On blogabull there is some talk about Ben's trade potential mixed in with the inceasingly brutal bashing he is getting.

Unfortunately the lack of lift that was Wallace's problem last year (http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/5/31/165150/421) has been even worse this year. He can't or simply doesn't jump very often anymore. His ability to finish inside and his defensive rebounding have only further declined.

Blog a Bull :: A Chicago Bulls Blog (http://www.blogabull.com/story/2008/2/10/3638/48065#commenttop)


The decline in physical skills is understandable..that was the risk the Bulls took when they signed Ben..but a lot of the bashing questions his energy and desire.

I think part of it is related to his habit of playing with injuries. Maybe he should sit more when he's hurting?

On blogabull there is some talk about Ben's trade potential mixed in with the inceasingly brutal bashing he is getting.



Blog a Bull :: A Chicago Bulls Blog (http://www.blogabull.com/story/2008/2/10/3638/48065#commenttop)


The decline in physical skills is understandable..that was the risk the Bulls took when they signed Ben..but a lot of the bashing questions his energy and desire.

I think part of it is related to his habit of playing with injuries. Maybe he should sit more when he's hurting?


I noticed his lack of jumping in the Bulls last game that was televised on WGN this past week end. It was very sad.

:hoops:

That Chicago media is merciless. Betcha Ben wishes he still had some McCoskey home-cooking. :)

That Chicago media is merciless. Betcha Ben wishes he still had some McCoskey home-cooking. :)

trade McCoskey for some Chi writer.

You really don't hear much about the Bulls living here. They are doing poorly enough that nobody pays attention to them. Same with the BHawks.

Everyone is excited about the Cubs next year though.

You really don't hear much about the Bulls living here. They are doing poorly enough that nobody pays attention to them. Same with the BHawks.

Everyone is excited about the Cubs next year though.

Would love to see a Tigers - Cubbies WS this year.

:hoops:

Would love to see a Tigers - Cubbies WS this year.


That would be a rematch of what the 1984 WS should have been.

That would be a rematch of what the 1984 WS should have been.

Correct - The Pads were not the best team in the NL in 1984.

:hoops:

Monday, February 11, 2008
Chris McCosky: Around the NBA

Adding Ben Wallace would be risky move for Jazz


AUBURN HILLS -- It should come as no surprise that the Bulls would at least try to trade Ben Wallace. Why wouldn't they? They have two young guys (read: cheaper) playing better than he is, and if they can find somebody to take the $28.5 million he's owed over the next two years off their books -- again, why wouldn't they?


Apparently, the Bulls and Lakers discussed a scenario involving Wallace before the Lakers pulled off the Pau Gasol heist. There has been some discussion of a deal with the Knicks involving Jason Richardson and a bunch of other spare parts, but that appears to be just chatter.


The Chicago papers were swirling Sunday with a Wallace-to-Utah rumor that would fetch Andrei Kirilenko. Apparently, the Chicago media think the Jazz would look at Wallace as an answer to Shaquille O'Neal going to Phoenix and Gasol going to the Laker
Adding Ben Wallace would be risky move for Jazz (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080211/OPINION03/802110307/1127)

:hoops: