Toronto Jan 15 7:30 PM

tv: tv20

Pistons come back home for much needed 2 game homestand after completing their 3 game in 4 night stretch. The 20-17 Toronto Raptors come into town featuring Chris Bosh.

Pistons won the last meeting in Toronto 101-85.

Hopefully the guys who played in Charlotte and NY stay there and real team comes out to play. Flip should stay in the Big Apple though.. and take a break...see if the TP or Curry can coach these guys....:stirthepot:

I'll be at this one. Rooting against Delfino for this one.

I'll definitely be watching this game since the Pistons will be on the warpath after losing ugly tonight.

I'm still a big Carlo Delfino fan and he's so much fun to watch and he seems to have found a home in Toronto. The Pistons match up really well with Toronto and this might be a preview of a second round match-up come the playoffs.

I look for Sheed to come out with fire in his eyes tomorrow night and he'll have his hands full guarding Chris Bosh who is on a scoring spree lately. I would love to see Walter Hermann come in and play some and give the Pistons some international flavor.

I'll definitely be watching this game since the Pistons will be on the warpath after losing ugly tonight.

I'm still a big Carlo Delfino fan and he's so much fun to watch and he seems to have found a home in Toronto. The Pistons match up really well with Toronto and this might be a preview of a second round match-up come the playoffs.

I look for Sheed to come out with fire in his eyes tomorrow night and he'll have his hands full guarding Chris Bosh who is on a scoring spree lately. I would love to see Walter Hermann come in and play some and give the Pistons some international flavor.

Not if he shoots 1-7 like tonight:sssh:

DRE I'll raise you Herrmann's 1-7 with Tay's 0-10 night (kidding here). Really just burn the tape from tonight and let the players start fresh on Tuesday.

Maybe the Pistons and the Raptors can work out a trade on Tuesday and pick off a player they like and exchange them. So the Pistons can have Juan Dixon and the Raptors will take Flip Murray in return.

Not if he shoots 1-7 like tonight:sssh:

Something was wrong with the team in general yesterday - can't expect from a newcommer, who gets 2 min every third game, to save the boat.
Jarvis shoots 1-7 almost every night (0-5 NY), plays no defense and still gets his chance regularly...
Herrmann can at least play some defense (Novitzki).

i'll be there too. with the lee/hog combo, i smell a victory!!

Love the Raptors. Bosh has excellent footwork, and is really active. Calderon is such a good story, being an undrafted FA and now one of the top 10 PGs (IMO) in the NBA.

And Anthony Parker is really superb.

I love watching the Pistons plays the Raps.

Regular season games are like buses. If the first one along smells bad, just get off and another will be coming your way.

i'll be there too. with the lee/hog combo, i smell a victory!!

My daughter is going with me. So far, about 30 regular season games worth, she had never been to a loss. So we are pretty safe.

My daughter is going with me. So far, about 30 regular season games worth, she had never been to a loss. So we are pretty safe.

Let us know what her record is when you all attend a post season game. If it is as good as the regular season then when the playoff tickets go on sale, i will send you some money for tickets and plane fare for her flight to Boston for game seven. :burgereater::laugh:

Let us know what her record is when you all attend a post season game. If it is as good as the regular season then when the playoff tickets go on sale, i will send you some money for tickets and plane fare for her flight to Boston for game seven. :burgereater::laugh:

She has seen a loss in the post season once, but we won the series.

hooper should retire and your honey should take hooper's place. Breaking Auerbach's record is surely worth of it.

I'll be at this one. Rooting against Delfino for this one.

Lee, you should go have a chat with Joe Dumars before the game.

Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

See you guys shortly, just finishing my dinner. :)

Alright, that was a nice cure for what ailed the Pistons last game. Strangely, the end of the quarter in each of the first 3 periods was disastrous each time, as the Pistons blew most of their lead at the end of the 1st and 2nd and several points off a big lead at the end of the 3rd. But it was that 3rd quarter that was the difference, as they extended a 1 point halftime lead to a huge 18 point difference.

Rip had what must have been close to a career high with 39 points on 16-22 from the floor, 5-6 on 3s. CB had 20, and Dice was huge with 13 boards and 7 steals! The Raptors had a few stretches were they couldn't stop turning it over. Delfino made up for his scoreless first game against the Pistons earlier this season with 14 all in the 2nd quarter, but he didn't score again after halftime.

Alright, that was a nice cure for what ailed the Pistons last game. Strangely, the end of the quarter in each of the first 3 periods was disastrous each time, as the Pistons blew most of their lead at the end of the 1st and 2nd and several points off a big lead at the end of the 3rd. But it was that 3rd quarter that was the difference, as they extended a 1 point halftime lead to a huge 18 point difference.

Rip had what must have been close to a career high with 39 points on 16-22 from the floor, 5-6 on 3s. CB had 20, and Dice was huge with 13 boards and 7 steals! The Raptors had a few stretches were they couldn't stop turning it over. Delfino made up for his scoreless first game against the Pistons earlier this season with 14 all in the 2nd quarter, but he didn't score again after halftime.
Rip had 51 vs Knicks...how soon we forget:pound:

Now THIS was athrowaway game! Not impressed at all.
Sheed-nuthin
Tay- nuthin
Max-nuthin
Bench-nuthin

Just agood shooting night by the Palace Guards. wont get it done in ECF!

Imagine Chris Bosh on our team NOW!

Now THIS was athrowaway game! Not impressed at all.
Sheed-nuthin
Tay- nuthin
Max-nuthin
Bench-nuthin

Just agood shooting night by the Palace Guards. wont get it done in ECF!

Imagine Chris Bosh on our team NOW!

yeah sigh :mmph:at 6'10 he could have been that center Joe was looking for in Darko...after all we didn't even have Sheed at the time of that draft and Bosh was taller than Big Ben....

Good win tonight, but still concerned that the energy level drops on occassion within games even with the starters in there. As Dumars4e stated, the Pistons closed out the first three quarters in a listless fashion surrending big leads.

For the Raptors, Andrea Bargnani who scored 25 points vs the Pistons just 11 days ago was MIA tonight scoring 0!!! The 2nd qtr belong to Delfino, just as the third qtr belong Rip..

Rip was on fire tonight socring 39 and was 16-22 including a blistering 5-6 from downtown as Marv Albert would say and only 2-3 fron the line. To put it in perspective, Labron scored 51 tonight on 18-28 shooting, including 6/12 from beyond the arc and 9/16 FT. To go even further, Kobe scored 48 pts on 21-44 shooting, 2/8 from the three and 4-7 at the line. Granted the games by Kobe and Labron were overtime affairs but I would say that Rip has proven that he is the pure shooter of the bunch, but guess which two of the three are being mentioned as perrenial MVP candidates everyyear??:stirthepot:

Sprocket Cap

Behind 39 points from Rip Hamilton on 73% shooting and perhaps Antonio McDyess’ best game as a Piston (9 points, 13 boards, 7 steals, 2 blocked shots, zero turnovers) the Pistons bounce back from the debacle in the Big Apple to wallop Toronto 103 to 89 at the Palace.

The Pistons start the game tentatively and it looks like a baseball game through the first four minutes with each team only putting up four. The teams trade baskets until Toronto is forced to call a timeout after two threes from Rip and a Sheed dunk just after the four minute mark. Toronto goes small and ends the quarter on a Calderon personal 6-0 run to pull within two at 20-18.

Billups open the second with his own personal 7-0 run off a three and four free throws to put the Pistons back up by eight. The Pistons go small to match up with Toronto and the game starts to slip away. The Raptors outscore the Pistons 11-2 over the next seven minutes behind three 3s and a free throw from former Piston Carlos Delfino. Rip hits his third three of the game to push the lead back to five, but back to back Pistons turnovers allow Toronto to come within one at 51-50 at the half. Delfino, playing power forward much of the time, scores 14 of Toronto’s 32 points in the second.

The third opens with the Pistons kicking butt and taking names. A Billups three and a fast break bucket force Toronto into a timeout a little over a minute in the period. Rip breaks free after the timeout (8-10 at this point) to push the lead back to ten and force Toronto’s second timeout of the half. This time when Toronto goes small the Pistons stay big and slowly begin to expand the lead, all the way to 75-57 when Toronto sends in the third string. An 8-2 Toronto run keyed by two baskets by Nesterovic and four points from Moon ends the quarter with the Pistons up by 12.

The Pistons just get stronger in the fourth, answering every Toronto push, most often by a Hamilton basket. Rip finishes with 39 points in 38 minutes on 16-22 shooting with five threes, four boards, and six assists. McDyess plays 34 minutes and Billups and Sheed 31. Prince ends the night with six points in 29 minutes. The Pistons shoot 50% for the game including 62% from three with 29 assists on 38 baskets.

My daughter is going with me. So far, about 30 regular season games worth, she had never been to a loss. So we are pretty safe.

Thanks for taking her...let her write a Lee cap too, so that we can see if you two watch the same game and get the same perspective:)

Great reading fellas!

Impressive third quarter from the starters. A big difference this year is our ability to run. Hamilton who was a turnover machine on the break in the past is now very dangerous as he gets the ball upcourt.

Yes, Dice had a man-like game. I am still worried about this position for the playoffs. Dice is undersized against the Z and Varejao combo with the Cavs and not good at stopping a Le Bron drive.

What I like about Dyss's game is that as contest progresses, he can stretch the defense with his jumper. Not sure he helps out in the early going though. Our start is usually a series of jump shots....

Rip was on fire. Chauncey was good. Tay's still off. Sheed was solid.

Stuckey is hurting us defensively and w/ his turnovers. AA needs to take about 6 to 8 of those minutes Rip played. Don't know why this is so hard for Flip. Put Rip in w/ Stuckey, and Chauncey in w/ AA. Jarvis is useless. Hermann deserves his spot. And no Amir in the 1st half :tsk:

Also where did Delfino go after the 1st half?

Good win, but hot shooting from Rip won this. The defense at times was very good. Still not consistent though. And props to Chauncey for discovering where the basket is. Someone must have drawn him a map. :)

Impressive third quarter from the starters. A big difference this year is our ability to run. Hamilton who was a turnover machine on the break in the past is now very dangerous as he gets the ball upcourt.

Yes, Dice had a man-like game. I am still worried about this position for the playoffs. Dice is undersized against the Z and Varejao combo with the Cavs and not good at stopping a Le Bron drive.

What I like about Dyss's game is that as contest progresses, he can stretch the defense with his jumper. Not sure he helps out in the early going though. Our start is usually a series of jump shots....

It definately doesn't. Whenever i see Dice in the post, I'm practically yelling for a post move. Max needs to start. The concern with that is that Dice is our best rebounder. Can Max hold his own? He would be playing next to Sheed so maybe it doesn't matter.

Lpgrl,

I would love to see Maxiel get more burn early in the game. Are teams going to double him then? He is still somewhat raw and needs the experience for the playoffs. If anything, when the jump shots aren't falling or a good team gets up on our guards, Maxiel can be a different kind of option. With Dyss, it is here now it is your turn to take the jumper.

I also like Maxiel for the last 3-4 minutes of the game because in can step up and block a shot or go after a driver.

Dyss can stretch the defense at times for sure. And he can play certain bigs acceptably. But we are asking him to do too much in my opinion.

This team will go as far as Maxiel or someone else (Stuckey?) steps up into the mix.

Always fun to see a win at the Palace. But look, an 8 man rotation will lose in the playoffs, so tonight was yet another setback as far as preparation for the playoffs. Hayes, who is simply given minutes for what?, Stuckey, and Maxiell were the only subs. (Excepting 2 minutes of garbage time where everyone played.)


Rip was awesome, hitting 5 of 6 from 3 land and ending up with 39 points. A couple of those threes were setup by Stuckey drives to the basket. Billups had a good shooting night. Our bigs did a lot of work inside, setting up those easy outside shots for Rip and Billups.(20 points.)


Dyess had a particulary excellent game. His hands would not be pried off any contested rebounds, or loose balls (many that he created while denying post entry passes.) He had a career high 7 steals to go along with 13 rebounds. He only had 9 points, but most of those were the inside variety, exactly what we need from the guy.


Maxiell got several offensive rebounds for us. He looked realy good inside on one play, taking up a lot of space and then just flipping the ball up and in. And he made 4 of 4 from the line.


Stuckey did some scoring, 8 points I believe. His highlight was one drive where he did quite a bit of weaving and layed the ball in. Pretty impressive.


Hayes made one outside shot. Several of his misses were at least post up tries.


Tay hit a few shots, played good D. His highlight was a dunk off a drive in.


Delfino had a nice 2nd quarter for Toronto, as they ended up just one point behind at the half.


Even though it was an 8 man rotation, Flip did keep his bench players in for quite a while in the 1st half. Rip is the only guy who really got overplayed tonight, but he was on fire, did not play last night, and does not need to play tomorro night either. However, Afflalo being out of the rotation does not in anyway help the team. Rip might feel great about scoring all those points, but if he thinks he will not need any help in the playoffs, he is fooling himself.


I am sure a lot of people will applaud Flip for coaching a win. Never mind he got a win that won't translate into playoff success. His vision all along has been to use this exact rotation he used tonight. If he gets his way, there will be no championship this year. Everyone has the right to root for Saunders for another win.. Me, and many like minded people, would rather point out that the playoffs are coming up soon, and point out that this game got us nowhere toward the goal of winning in the playoffs.

Stuckey is hurting us defensively and w/ his turnovers. AA needs to take about 6 to 8 of those minutes Rip played. Don't know why this is so hard for Flip. Put Rip in w/ Stuckey, and Chauncey in w/ AA. Jarvis is useless. Hermann deserves his spot. And no Amir in the 1st half :tsk:

saunders was quoted after the game stating that he and joe talked and that joe wanted to shorten the rotation for the time being to make sure stuckey the backup G minutes (at the expense of afflalo for now), so he'll be ready for playoffs. i haven't seen stuckey hurting us defensively though...i thought he's been a very solid defender, and the turnovers aren't a big deal right now. stuckey said after the game he still is a bit tentative in deciding when to attack the basket, and 2nd-guessing himself at times, but he'll get over it. and i believe that's true - the way chauncey was penetrating tonight, i thought stuckey could've killed toronto the same way.

let's give credit to chauncey and the pistons for pushing the ball up the court more, and for chauncey driving to the basket. there were a few times early they were trying to draw fouls instead of just making the basket, but they corrected themselves later. after being at the palace so many times, the pistons knew they were never in danger of losing this game, and i think that's why they relaxed a little bit at the end of each quarter after building a lead. to their credit, after the debacle near halftime, they really came out in the 3rd with a purpose. toronto is an okay basketball team, but not great. bosh is too weak for our frontline, and without bargnani playing well they have no chance in the playoffs.

oddly at the palace tonight, they sung the national anthem like 10 mins before announcing the lineups, which was pretty strange. there were quite a few raptors fans, and they started to chant "let's go raptors" in the 4th, but a sheed dunk and and-1 quickly shut them up. the family in front of us, i'm pretty sure they were from toronto (no team apparel either way) because the dad was clapping when the raps scored, and then when his kid cheered along with pistons fans he kind of made his kid stop heh.

something is definitely up with tay though. in the first 5 minutes of the game he missed an offensive rebound that was bouncing right to him, simply because he was standing still and didn't take one step to reach the ball, and then he let bosh rip a defensive rebound right out of his hands. i don't know what his problem is, but if anyone has seemingly grown complacent, i think it's tayshaun over anyone else. but i seem to remember a slump like this every year for tayshaun, and then in the playoffs he steps up. no excuse, but still.

2-0 with the maxiell jersey. he's struggling lately as well, but he still makes hustle plays and tough plays that don't always pile up on the stat sheet. he's learning to pass out of double teams and is making teams pay for putting him at the line, drawing fouls and making his FTs (over 73% in january, getting better every month).

Lee,

The Pistons now should be focused only on the ultimate goal of the playoffs. Agree.

saunders was quoted after the game stating that he and joe talked and that joe wanted to shorten the rotation for the time being to make sure stuckey the backup G minutes (at the expense of afflalo for now), so he'll be ready for playoffs.

I can deal with that (if it's temporary), but i don't think it's necessary. There are still enough min left over for AA if Rip plays less. But that would require playing Stuck/Afflalo together so i can see the hesitation at times.

i haven't seen stuckey hurting us defensively though...i thought he's been a very solid defender, and the turnovers aren't a big deal right now. stuckey said after the game he still is a bit tentative in deciding when to attack the basket, and 2nd-guessing himself at times, but he'll get over it. and i believe that's true - the way chauncey was penetrating tonight, i thought stuckey could've killed toronto the same way. He seems to have trouble getting through screens and sometimes gets blown by/loses his man requiring the defense to have to collapse. It's not an all the time thing, but something i've noticed the past few games. The turnovers don't bother me all that much. He's a rook. I'll give him leeway.


oddly at the palace tonight, they sung the national anthem like 10 mins before announcing the lineups, which was pretty strange. there were quite a few raptors fans, and they started to chant "let's go raptors" in the 4th, but a sheed dunk and and-1 quickly shut them up. the family in front of us, i'm pretty sure they were from toronto (no team apparel either way) because the dad was clapping when the raps scored, and then when his kid cheered along with pistons fans he kind of made his kid stop heh. LOL

saunders was quoted after the game stating that he and joe talked and that joe wanted to shorten the rotation for the time being to make sure stuckey the backup G minutes (at the expense of afflalo for now), so he'll be ready for playoffs. i haven't seen stuckey hurting us defensively though...i thought he's been a very solid defender, and the turnovers aren't a big deal right now. stuckey said after the game he still is a bit tentative in deciding when to attack the basket, and 2nd-guessing himself at times, but he'll get over it. and i believe that's true - the way chauncey was penetrating tonight, i thought stuckey could've killed toronto the same way.

let's give credit to chauncey and the pistons for pushing the ball up the court more, and for chauncey driving to the basket. there were a few times early they were trying to draw fouls instead of just making the basket, but they corrected themselves later. after being at the palace so many times, the pistons knew they were never in danger of losing this game, and i think that's why they relaxed a little bit at the end of each quarter after building a lead. to their credit, after the debacle near halftime, they really came out in the 3rd with a purpose. toronto is an okay basketball team, but not great. bosh is too weak for our frontline, and without bargnani playing well they have no chance in the playoffs.

oddly at the palace tonight, they sung the national anthem like 10 mins before announcing the lineups, which was pretty strange. there were quite a few raptors fans, and they started to chant "let's go raptors" in the 4th, but a sheed dunk and and-1 quickly shut them up. the family in front of us, i'm pretty sure they were from toronto (no team apparel either way) because the dad was clapping when the raps scored, and then when his kid cheered along with pistons fans he kind of made his kid stop heh.

something is definitely up with tay though. in the first 5 minutes of the game he missed an offensive rebound that was bouncing right to him, simply because he was standing still and didn't take one step to reach the ball, and then he let bosh rip a defensive rebound right out of his hands. i don't know what his problem is, but if anyone has seemingly grown complacent, i think it's tayshaun over anyone else. but i seem to remember a slump like this every year for tayshaun, and then in the playoffs he steps up. no excuse, but still.

2-0 with the maxiell jersey. he's struggling lately as well, but he still makes hustle plays and tough plays that don't always pile up on the stat sheet. he's learning to pass out of double teams and is making teams pay for putting him at the line, drawing fouls and making his FTs (over 73% in january, getting better every month).

I wonder just how that conversation went. No way I think Dumars approached Flip with idea of dropping Afflalo out of the rotation. Besides, for all practical purposes, Afflalo has been out of the rotation for quite some time now.

Think of it this way. If Stuckey needs all this time to get ready for the playoffs, then how about Afflalo and Amir? Seems they could use some time playing to get ready for the playoffs.

Here is a very simple fact. All we have to do is cut down on Rip's minutes to get Afflalo time to play. It ain't rocket science or anything. Flip's excuses are amusing, but of no substance whatsoever.

Here is what I liked about this game:

1) We pushed the tempo. We can mostly thank Rip for this. Every time we got a long rebound or a steal, Rip was looking for the ball and sprinting down court. We were getting layups. But we were also getting those mid transition buckets where we would try to push it and then kick out to an open shooter trailing. It was brilliant. 92 possessions for us in this game compared to our average of 88. Our players make such smart decisions that we can handle the chaos of the faster tempo. Also, Dyess's steals gave us opportunities.

2) We got inside. Billups and Stuckey were both driving and finishing as well as kicking out for open J's. Also, guys were cutting. Rip, Dyess, Sheed, and Tay all got point blank hoops off of cuts into the lane. It was especially nice to see CB look to create. We got to see what a good passer he still is when he decides to penetrate (and how about that lightning behind the back pass to Rip underneath the hoop?).

3) Flip left our traditional lineup in there to crush Toronto's small lineup in the 2nd half. Instead of reacting to them, he decided to push our advantage. Immediately, we were keying on their weakest link until they finally relented and went bigger.

4) Rip Hamilton- If you ignore free throws, then Rip Hamilton outscored the entire Toronto Raptor starting five 37 to 35! His jumper was automatic, he was getting inside, he was initiating the fast break, and his defense has been ridiculous. I think that we really need to start considering his D to be on par with Tay and Sheed.

Also, big minutes for Stuckey and Maxiell paid off, as they were both great. 9 boards for Max and 5 assists for Stuck.


Of course we didn't get a big dose of Afflalo and Amir, but there were a lot of big picture positives in terms of our gameplan tonight.

One last thing, they beat us on the boards 42-38, but we finally won the battle of the paint 36-28...:cheerlie-GOAL:

I wonder just how that conversation went. No way I think Dumars approached Flip with idea of dropping Afflalo out of the rotation. Besides, for all practical purposes, Afflalo has been out of the rotation for quite some time now.

Think of it this way. If Stuckey needs all this time to get ready for the playoffs, then how about Afflalo and Amir? Seems they could use some time playing to get ready for the playoffs.

Here is a very simple fact. All we have to do is cut down on Rip's minutes to get Afflalo time to play. It ain't rocket science or anything. Flip's excuses are amusing, but of no substance whatsoever.
Saunders said that for now, Arron Afflalo would be out of the rotation.
"After talking to Joe (Dumars ), we decided to shorten our bench somewhat to facilitate Stuckey," Saunders said. "We want to get him out there with more of our main guys to try and help him out."


That's how it went, I guess, at least that's what media is reporting.

To his credit Afflalo seems to be taking it well. Said he's going to work harder, get better, and earn the trust of the staff, and make it so they HAVE to play him.

I hope he doesn't get discouraged when he realizes it's not that simple with Flip.

Now THIS was athrowaway game! Not impressed at all.
Sheed-nuthin
Tay- nuthin
Max-nuthin
Bench-nuthin

Just agood shooting night by the Palace Guards. wont get it done in ECF!

Imagine Chris Bosh on our team NOW!

Max-nuthin? He had 8 points, 9 boards, and 2 assists in 26 minutes. His defensive rebounding tonight was big. Not sure what else you want from him. Stuckey was solid. 8 points 5 assists. A couple rookie mistakes, and his shot appears to be busted, but more good than bad easily.

As for the rest of the bench. We need a shooter who can show up relatively consistently. Jarvis is great for about 3 games a month. Otherwise he hurts as much as he helps (if not more). I would still like to see AA play some SF. A Stuckey/Rip/AA lineup would workout much better than the Stuckey/AA/Prince (or hayes) lineups that Flip goes to when he's playing the rooks together. They're scrappier defensively, and Rip isn't a reluctant scorer like Tayshaun. While AA won't get hot like hayes occasionally can, he'll take better shots, and bring a lot more defensively. I don't think he's as streaky either.

That's how it went, I guess, at least that's what media is reporting.
Sure would love to see the whole conversation. How much of it was discussing, vs. Flip begging to get his own way. Maybe he made some promises to Joe to do some things later, like play Amir. If Dumars fell for that, thats just shame on Joe.

For me Afflalo is not a deal breaker. I would like to see Amir play because we really could use him in the post season. About 25% of Afflalo's shots are 3's and he has hit 5 out of 26 so far. Actually has played a decent amount of time for one of our rookies. He will be back. I am sure its only temporary.

Nice game by the way. Toronto is not a pushover.

To his credit Afflalo seems to be taking it well. Said he's going to work harder, get better, and earn the trust of the staff, and make it so they HAVE to play him.

I hope he doesn't get discouraged when he realizes it's not that simple with Flip.

he's not getting regular burn, but i do think he has the trust of flip.... he went in for the last 4 secs of the 1st half as a def replacement. I know its Flip and its really hard to find trust in him but I really hope that in this case once stuckey get truelly settled that we'll see his mins go back up.

Unlike my thoughts about Amir who I'm afraid is a lost cause for this year.

Sure would love to see the whole conversation. How much of it was discussing, vs. Flip begging to get his own way. Maybe he made some promises to Joe to do some things later, like play Amir. If Dumars fell for that, thats just shame on Joe.

Sorry, Lee: i'm actually bored of your wishful thinking and constant demanding that coaches, GM-s, players and even owners MUST do "in my way".Those guys do as they see fit and surely their job is to gve answers based on your taste. Dumars and Flip seem to be on the same page, why bench should be shortened, and b/c you do not like that dumars agreed with flip, you start questioning whether such conversation ever happened...

Okay fans do not have to like, what is happening with ther beloved teams but such attitude that I do not like that beforementioned conversation happened and therefore I question "legality" of issue, has gone to far, at least in my opinion...

I fully understand that this is fan forum and everyone has their opinions but it does not justify that fans can make various demands based on "realGM". All those coaches, players work in REAL LIFE, if you do not like it, it is your problem, not theirs.

You do not have to like what coaches are doing, but it does not mean that they are "stupid".

he's not getting regular burn, but i do think he has the trust of flip.... he went in for the last 4 secs of the 1st half as a def replacement. I know its Flip and its really hard to find trust in him but I really hope that in this case once stuckey get truelly settled that we'll see his mins go back up.

Unlike my thoughts about Amir who I'm afraid is a lost cause for this year.

I heard Flip talk about his conversation with Joe in the post game. My feeling is that it will be easier to integrate AA later because of what he brings to the table. He is not responsible for making sure that the team is still functioning as a cohesive unit while CB is out. He playsa much smaller role then Stuck so the priority of getting Stuck more acclimated makes perfect sense.

I don't like it but it is kind of hard to argue. AA brings defensive presence and hustle that we can add in after Stuck feels more comfortable running the team. It makes no sense to play them together if Stuck is not comfortable yet.

I do agree that we should play more CB/AA and Stuck/Rip combinations to reduce Rips minutes. I can wait til after the break for this. Unfortunately I think AJ is going to get left behind this year unless these guys learn fast. Just have to see how Stuck progresses playing more minutes with the starters and less with the bench. Eventually he will NEED to be the LEADER of the second unit and we want him prepared to do so. In the long run it will give us more options if he feels comfortable. He won't always have to have 3 or 4 starters on the floor with him once he feels more confident running the team.

No small ball and Herrmann.

We can breath easier for now.

:hoops:

What a great game. I love watching the Raptors, and Raptors/Pistons is the best!

Rip was absolutely amazing, his 3 point shooting was great, and his effort on defense was solid as well.

Very impressed with the Pistons backcourt, except Stuckey, who really needs a lot of work to develop.

Defensively, the Pistons had a bad 2nd quarter, but otherwise really strong.

The best part was when Max tried to dunk and missed so bad, he was knocked down. I think someone wrote in chat or said on the telecast, "Best missed dunk of all time".

I too liked the running by DET. I also liked that Flip subbed Maxey in with about 3:30 to go in the first and Stuckey soon followed.

I disliked bringing Sheed and Billups back with 2:30 to 3 minutes to go in the half. For a guy who's so concerned about rhythm, I don't know what Flip expects them to do in that amount of time.

I thought Flip could have subbed out for Max with about 5 to go in the half for Amir. That is the first time I've thought that all year. He would have been out there with Dyess.

DET needs a dependable back-up PG. I don't think they can afford the luxury of carrying Stuckey, AA and Hunter (Billups really too). They do too much of the same thing.

Chris Bosh is the Dirk Nowitzki of the EC to me. That is not a compliment. (He would fit nicely here though.)

One way to pair AA/CB and Stuckey/Rip is to start AA.........

DET needs a dependable back-up PG. I don't think they can afford the luxury of carrying Stuckey, AA and Hunter (Billups really too). They do too much of the same thing.

The plan is obviously that Stuckey is the primary backup for running the offense. This leaves the question of what AA's role might be for the playoffs, but whenever that comes up, I think people are forgetting about Lindsey.

Lindsey as a primary backup PG is bad news because he can't reliably run the offense. But as we've already seen in the wins at Boston and at San Antonio, he can still wreak havoc against backup ball-handlers from other teams to help spark some runs. That's a role that can definitely be valuable in some big playoff games.

Does AA bring more to the table than that? I like him, but his positive traits--good defense, opportunistic scoring on defensive breakdowns and in transition--seem to be more or less what Lindsey can give us, as long as Lindsey doesn't have to handle the load of running the offense (which he won't have to, if--according to plan--Stuckey becomes the one who does that off the bench). And who do we trust more, in this year's playoffs, to provide that pestering defense and occasional scoring on open drives: Lindsey or AA? My vote is with the old guy.

I too liked the running by DET. I also liked that Flip subbed Maxey in with about 3:30 to go in the first and Stuckey soon followed.

I thought Flip could have subbed out for Max with about 5 to go in the half for Amir. That is the first time I've thought that all year. He would have been out there with Dyess.

One way to pair AA/CB and Stuckey/Rip is to start AA.........

I agree with you here but I don't think AA is going to go from 2:19 to starting. He is more likely to see a few DNP-CD over the next few weeks.

One way to pair AA/CB and Stuckey/Rip is to start AA.........

We sort of anticipated the problem that Flip is facing. That is why we were suggesting lineups where AA would start. Or JMax, or even Amir.
It's because we were concerned that putting all the rookies out there together would not be the best way for them to succeed. However, Flip is now concerned about this and has shorted the rotation as a way to get Stuckey help. It works for Stuckey, but not the most creative way to go about it.

Does AA bring more to the table than that? I like him, but his positive traits--good defense, opportunistic scoring on defensive breakdowns and in transition--seem to be more or less what Lindsey can give us, as long as Lindsey doesn't have to handle the load of running the offense (which he won't have to, if--according to plan--Stuckey becomes the one who does that off the bench). And who do we trust more, in this year's playoffs, to provide that pestering defense and occasional scoring on open drives: Lindsey or AA? My vote is with the old guy.

you bring up a great point. realistically you're not going to see afflalo in the playoffs. you're going to see the starters, max, stuckey, jarvis, and lindsey. relying on 2 rookie guards in the playoffs (despite how solid AA has been) is a scary thought. relying on lindsey to be the backup PG is a scary thought.

but letting stuckey be the backup PG with lindsey getting spot minutes (like james/lindsey in the championship year)? that's something i can roll with.

I disliked bringing Sheed and Billups back with 2:30 to 3 minutes to go in the half. For a guy who's so concerned about rhythm, I don't know what Flip expects them to do in that amount of time.

Agree. Tay also came back in with 1:22 left in the second. I was charting the game and made a note asking what in the world is going on. Hayes wasn't setting the world on fire, but neither was Tay, and getting a guy up who is cooled down for such a short period seems a really dumb idea to me.

you bring up a great point. realistically you're not going to see afflalo in the playoffs. you're going to see the starters, max, stuckey, jarvis, and lindsey. relying on 2 rookie guards in the playoffs (despite how solid AA has been) is a scary thought. relying on lindsey to be the backup PG is a scary thought.

but letting stuckey be the backup PG with lindsey getting spot minutes (like james/lindsey in the championship year)? that's something i can roll with.

Good point. PO are more intence, less fouls called, more physically "brutal" and I do believe that in case when both AA and RS are on the court during PO they will be "bitbulled" by opponents.

Sorry, Lee: i'm actually bored of your wishful thinking and constant demanding that coaches, GM-s, players and even owners MUST do "in my way".Those guys do as they see fit and surely their job is to gve answers based on your taste. Dumars and Flip seem to be on the same page, why bench should be shortened, and b/c you do not like that dumars agreed with flip, you start questioning whether such conversation ever happened...

Okay fans do not have to like, what is happening with ther beloved teams but such attitude that I do not like that beforementioned conversation happened and therefore I question "legality" of issue, has gone to far, at least in my opinion...

I fully understand that this is fan forum and everyone has their opinions but it does not justify that fans can make various demands based on "realGM". All those coaches, players work in REAL LIFE, if you do not like it, it is your problem, not theirs.

You do not have to like what coaches are doing, but it does not mean that they are "stupid".

Just because the coaches are clueless about basketball, in some respects, does not make them stupid. I am sure they are all fine people. And like anyone, they have their limitations. They have their faults. They have a lot to learn, just like everyone else. Even about basketball. If you will take the time to notice, both Porter and Cowens use to coach their own NBA teams. What are they lacking such that they ain't got head coaching jobs at the moment. And why did Flip Saunder's best friend fire him from his last coaching job? Ever think just maybe these guys have flaws? They do.

Just because the coaches are clueless about basketball, in some respects, does not make them stupid. I am sure they are all fine people. And like anyone, they have their limitations. They have their faults. They have a lot to learn, just like everyone else. Even about basketball. If you will take the time to notice, both Porter and Cowens use to coach their own NBA teams. What are they lacking such that they ain't got head coaching jobs at the moment. And why did Flip Saunder's best friend fire him from his last coaching job? Ever think just maybe these guys have flaws? They do.
:cheers::p_welldone:

Just because the coaches are clueless about basketball, in some respects, does not make them stupid. I am sure they are all fine people. And like anyone, they have their limitations. They have their faults. They have a lot to learn, just like everyone else. Even about basketball. If you will take the time to notice, both Porter and Cowens use to coach their own NBA teams. What are they lacking such that they ain't got head coaching jobs at the moment. And why did Flip Saunder's best friend fire him from his last coaching job? Ever think just maybe these guys have flaws? They do.

coaces usually are trying their best, players, well...do not have to, they still get their money till the end of contract.

coaces usually are trying their best, players, well...
They may be trying, but are they capable?
I guess at this point I should ask - do you think Flip is a great coach and has what it takes to get Pistons to the championship? I am really curious since you so vehemently oppose any critique of him.

coaces usually are trying their best, players, well...
Flip, is that you?

They may be trying, but are they capable?
I guess at this point I should ask - do you think Flip is a great coach and has what it takes to get Pistons to the championship? I am really curious since you so vehemently oppose any critique of him.

Problem is, nobody knows...you can't say that this or that is champioship-caliber before he wins that damn' 'ship...Our speculations are based on hindsights...And even when somebody has won you can't really say that he does it again....

It is emotionally undersandable that fans desire a 100% sure answers but who should give those?

And why did Flip Saunder's best friend fire him from his last coaching job?

Because his best friend was too big a weenie to fire himself?

Max-nuthin? He had 8 points, 9 boards, and 2 assists in 26 minutes. His defensive rebounding tonight was big. Not sure what else you want from him. Stuckey was solid. 8 points 5 assists. A couple rookie mistakes, and his shot appears to be busted, but more good than bad easily.

As for the rest of the bench. We need a shooter who can show up relatively consistently. Jarvis is great for about 3 games a month. Otherwise he hurts as much as he helps (if not more). I would still like to see AA play some SF. A Stuckey/Rip/AA lineup would workout much better than the Stuckey/AA/Prince (or hayes) lineups that Flip goes to when he's playing the rooks together. They're scrappier defensively, and Rip isn't a reluctant scorer like Tayshaun. While AA won't get hot like hayes occasionally can, he'll take better shots, and bring a lot more defensively. I don't think he's as streaky either.

That's what I said 'NOTHIN!"....This was at home...vs a Toronto team without TJFord, a weak game from Bosh and NO game from Bargnani. Watch the game within the game when dealing with a team that stikll has no respect for it's coach. There's something I'm waiting for...and I'll know it when I see it.

The plan is obviously that Stuckey is the primary backup for running the offense. This leaves the question of what AA's role might be for the playoffs, but whenever that comes up, I think people are forgetting about Lindsey.

Lindsey as a primary backup PG is bad news because he can't reliably run the offense. But as we've already seen in the wins at Boston and at San Antonio, he can still wreak havoc against backup ball-handlers from other teams to help spark some runs. That's a role that can definitely be valuable in some big playoff games.

Does AA bring more to the table than that? I like him, but his positive traits--good defense, opportunistic scoring on defensive breakdowns and in transition--seem to be more or less what Lindsey can give us, as long as Lindsey doesn't have to handle the load of running the offense (which he won't have to, if--according to plan--Stuckey becomes the one who does that off the bench). And who do we trust more, in this year's playoffs, to provide that pestering defense and occasional scoring on open drives: Lindsey or AA? My vote is with the old guy. But the thing that ticks me off is that we already KNOW what the starters can do and that we already KNOW that our seeding means nothing. What we DONT KNOW is what our youngens can do under pressure with minutes. LB proved that winning 60-65 games meams nothing if you don't get to the finals. I'll take a well-developed loss over a slack-lazy win any day.

I agree that Amir should play more to give us a better idea of what he can do, largely because his strengths (athleticism, shot-blocking, rebounding) are things that could fill in some gaps among the 3 big men we have in the rotation. We don't know he'd do under pressure, but I think it would benefit the team to give him a shot and see how he does.

I'd also like to see AA play more, but my point is just that his strengths are (IMO) largely already available to us for the playoffs via Lindsey. So I don't think AA has the same potential to be as uniquely relevant to our playoff hopes *this season* as a better-developed Amir might be.

I agree that Amir should play more to give us a better idea of what he can do, largely because his strengths (athleticism, shot-blocking, rebounding) are things that could fill in some gaps among the 3 big men we have in the rotation. We don't know he'd do under pressure, but I think it would benefit the team to give him a shot and see how he does.

I'd also like to see AA play more, but my point is just that his strengths are (IMO) largely already available to us for the playoffs via Lindsey. So I don't think AA has the same potential to be as uniquely relevant to our playoff hopes *this season* as a better-developed Amir might be.

Afflalo is above all a scorer. Hunter meanwhile is the worst shooter ever in the history of the NBA playoffs. Most of the time Afflalo has played, he has been told not to shoot. Don't believe it? Well, ask me to go into that more if you wish. He did start getting more aggressive out there toward the end of the time he got to play for us, but the plug was pulled before he could get any comfort level. You know, we can't have guys not in Flip's plans have a real chance to show anything, can we. It would make the propaganda machine look awful silly.

On Amir, I will add this: Anyone who thinks we are getting the most out of Sheed, or Dyess, by giving them minimal rest in the 2nd quarter before they go back out there (or when they stay a few minutes to open the 2nd quarter), I got news for you. We need a fourth big simply to improve the play of Sheed and Dyess. They need more rest than they are getting.

I wanted to give away 5 games this year just for the develop of this team. I wonder if flip's ridiculous ego can handle that?

I wanted to give away 5 games this year just for the develop of this team. I wonder if flip's ridiculous ego can handle that?

His ego can't handle losing a quarter.

His ego can't handle losing a quarter.

AMEN My brotha!!!! :sssh: