Sacramento Jan 18th, 8:00 PM

TV - FSDHD, NBALP

The Kings come to the Palace with only four road wins at the time of this post. John Salmons is playing very well for the Kings, as his name should be now mentioned in the MIP voting.

Sacramento Jan 18th, 8:00 PM

TV - FSDHD, NBALP

The Kings come to the Palace with only four road wins at the time of this post. John Salmons is playing very well for the Kings, as his name should be now mentioned in the MIP voting.

This a revenge game as the Kings beat the Pistons by 10 on that ill fated west coast trip in November. The Pistons jumped off to 58-52 halftime lead only to fizzle out in the second half getting outscored by 18, :frusty: and losing 105-95.

Little Kmart is back from injury and coming off the bench the last 3 games averaging 29 pts a game. Their road woes contiue as they were blown out by 25 tonight by the Raptors...remember them? Delfino scored 26 tonight as Sam decided to leave him in longer:)

Bibby and Artest are back as well. If you don't know all the details, the team sounds mighty interesting with Bibby, Artest, and Kevin Martin coming off the bench.

Bibby and Artest are back as well. If you don't know all the details, the team sounds mighty interesting with Bibby, Artest, and Kevin Martin coming off the bench.


Let's hope they are still rusty. :pray:

Let's hope they are still rusty. :pray:

They scored very well today. But it will be a different story tomorrow.

Bibby and Artest are back as well. If you don't know all the details, the team sounds mighty interesting with Bibby, Artest, and Kevin Martin coming off the bench.

Bibby may be playing for Cleveland before the Kings game with us.


Cavs will try, again, to trade for Bibby

Monday, Jan 7, 2008 6:29 am EST

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_rumors__13/ept_sports_rumors-319860961-1184946978.jpg?ymj8m19CsddTryqpGetty Images

At this moment, there is nothing serious going on between the Cleveland Cavaliers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cle/) and Sacramento Kings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/sac/), but make no mistake, there probably will be. Cavs General Manager Danny Ferry has made at least three serious attempts within the last year to acquire Mike Bibby (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3245/). And the signs are there that he soon might be trying again.


If the Cavs want Bibby bad enough, they do have the ammunition to give the Kings what they want. It would take a package that would probably involve a talented big man such as Drew Gooden (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3602/), a prospect such as Shannon Brown (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4153/) or a draft pick and contracts expiring in 2009. The Cavs have numerous ones, especially Eric Snow (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3045/), Damon Jones (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3322/) or even both.
Cavs will try, again, to trade for Bibby - Rumors - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Cavs-will-try-again-to-trade-for-Bibby?urn=nba,60257)

:hoops:

Trade or not but with healthy team Kings are PO runners. Pistons are lucky, they are playing with not-yet -so -good-but-soon-to-be-good Kings. And Kings beat Pistons under similar condicions , so I'll take it as "fair trade".

Trade or not but with healthy team Kings are PO runners. Pistons are lucky, they are playing with not-yet -so -good-but-soon-to-be-good Kings. And Kings beat Pistons under similar condicions , so I'll take it as "fair trade".
I agree 100%. It would be good to beat the Kings and I think we will.

i'll be at this one too, lookin to go 3-0 with the jmax jersey!

I agree 100%. It would be good to beat the Kings and I think we will.

Smart money has us as humongous favorites.

What is interesting is that we have one of, if not the best record in the league against the line.

Might be AJ time tonight.

:hoops:

Might be AJ time tonight.

:hoops:

Now Buddha? What are you trying to pull here? You know better then to fib like that. :MusicBigGrin:

All you guys who went to the game tonight should have been chanting at the game.

"We want Amir"

Maybe if you guys could get a chant like that going, who knows what would result.

Amiiiiir Baaaallllll

:hoops:

All you guys who went to the game tonight should have been chanting at the game.

"We want Amir"

Maybe if you guys could get a chant like that going, who knows what would result.

Amiiiiir Baaaallllll

:hoops:

I like the T-Shirt campaign. Maybe a catchy little AJ saying on the front and a PF.com logo on the back? :)

I like the T-Shirt campaign. Maybe a catchy little AJ saying on the front and a PF.com logo on the back? :)

Go for it.

:hoops:

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

I'm going to miss this game and record it. Got the Flu, and I need some sleep.

Goooo Pistons!

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

I'm going to miss this game and record it. Got the Flu, and I need some sleep.

Goooo Pistons!

A good ball game with lots of rookie playing time is great medicine, Roscoe.

Stuckey is not good at all defensively. He's been burned 3 or 4 times already, and he hasn't even been in the game that long.

The disparity b/w having AA in the game vs him is glaring right now.

Sure as death: from bench only Stuck, Hayes and Maxi for real minutes and two of them are struggling

Halftime and Pistons down by 8 after lerading by 12 in the first qtr.

Kmart burn then for 16 points in the second qtr before going out with a injured hand..THANK GOODNESS. Bibby also chipped in 11 of the bench in the 2nd qtr.

Bottom line.. Sac Bench outscored our bench 36-3. as our guys were 1-6 with Stuckey and hayes just looking awful, and Fip plays them instead of experimenting with Amir and Allflolo.

CB and Sheed have already hoisted up 8 three balls in the first half...does this team ever learn???

Okey, let's the discussion how AA and AJ will change the world, begin!

Crappy loss tonight. CB had maybe his best game of the year: 28 points, 10 assists, 7 boards, no turnovers, 11-11 from the FT line on lots of aggressive drives. Rip had a great game shooting but turned it over way too much, Dice crashed the boards and hit shots but bricked 4 FTs, JMax sparked a big run in the 3rd quarter but also bricked his FTs, and Sheed was terrible all night long. Bench was mostly terrible, nothing from Stuckey or Hayes.

Halftime and Pistons down by 8 after lerading by 12 in the first qtr.

Kmart burn then for 16 points in the second qtr before going out with a injured hand..THANK GOODNESS. Bibby also chipped in 11 of the bench in the 2nd qtr.

Bottom line.. Sac Bench outscored our bench 36-3. as our guys were 1-6 with Stuckey and hayes just looking awful, and Fip plays them instead of experimenting with Amir and Allflolo.

CB and Sheed have already hoisted up 8 three balls in the first half...does this team ever learn???
no................

I think, such losses are needed, they are cure for complacency.

Well the Pistons came back and took the lead in the third based on some inspired defense by Max and some timely buckets by CB, but our lack of production from the rest of the bench and the 11 missed FT spell doom for the Pistons as they were swept by the restructured Kings. Their big guns all coming back from injury this week did what most us predicted took out our less than skilled bench in the second qtr and the all important 4th qtr. This is the same team that got blown out by Raptors two days ago...the same team we blew out the night prior to that!

How does this stat grab you Kings bench 60, Pistons bench 5!! (all by JMAX) as Hayes, Stuckey and Afllolo were a combined 0-10 from the field. What happen to our bench...they must have lost their confidence sitting on the bench during last weeks road trip I guess:confused:.

Let's not put it all on the bench though . Sheed 3-12 shooting, 1-6 from beyond the arc. Sheed, Dice and Max 1-11 from the FT line. Rip 5 turnovers:frusty:

Another great Billups game wasted. 28 pts, 10 assists, 7 board and no turnovers.

Our starting backcourt had a terrfic game; Chauncey especially. Rip could've turned it over less, though. Our frontcourt - not so much. Dice had some great hustle; Max as well, but neither they nor Sheed could score for us. We got very little help on offense from our frontcourt. Pistons also missed a lot of ft's.

Our bench really struggled, producing only 5 points. Max was the lone bright spot there. Stuckey seems out of it. He got burned on D quite a bit - and he needs to be more aggressive on offense. I guess the hand's still bothering him. Flip might wanna think about upping the tempo with him in there. He'll do better, and it'd be a good change of pace for us.
Hayes needs to take better shots; he's starting to force things again. Herrmann was decent, but he didn't really stand out; neither did Afflalo.

The bench is coming off a a string of games where they haven't gotten much run and are trying to adjust. They are pressing to do well instead of just playing. I think part of the problem is you bring in Stuck and Max but leave Dice, Rip and Tay in the game after already having a lot of minutes on them. They are slowing them down. Stuck, Max and even AA want and need to turn up the tempo when they are playing. We need to reduce the length of our runs so that we can turn up the tempo when Stuck and Max come in.

Another coaching loss. Sacramento steadily shuttled in fresh players the whole game. We countered with a 6 man rotation.</p>


<p>Worse, three of our starters played near or over 40 minutes, in the first of a back to back. So much for planning to leave anything for tomorro night. And yes, Dyess was way overplayed too, for his age and condition of his knees.</p>


<p>What happened to the promise of Stuckey playing major minutes, win or lose? The announcers proudly, I should say dutifully, announced the 8 man rotation. What a joke to put on us fans.</p>


<p>Rip sat out about a minute or so in the first half before coming back in, and utterly predictably finishing the half. Virtually no rest. The 8 man rotation thing failed to work.</p>


<p>Anyone think Afflalo got minutes. Technically he did. Two minutes can be referred to in the plural. This is a joke.</p>


<p>Hayes continues to do nothing at all out there. But since he is someone who Flip can play instead of Amir, he will not come out of the rotation. His minutes were given to him, and they are gold.</p>


<p>Herrmann hustles, but is way too slow. He simply does not get to plays to affect them.</p>


<p>Maxiell had a bad night at the line, but provided a great burst of energy in the 3rd quarter to get us back into the game. But then the coach sat him most of the 4th quarter, going with a couple of tired 33 year olds instead.</p>


<p>At least Saunders did do a couple of things different. He brought in a guy who should be starting, Maxiell, into the game when it was very apparent we needed Maxiell and his stellar defense. He also played Herrmann and later Hayes some at power forward. If he had not, Dyess would be up around 40 minutes for this game too, and that would be truly obscene on a front end of a back to back. Now, neither of these guys gives us a lick of rebounding or shotblocking as power forwards, so it will never work, but it would be stupider yet to play Dyess even more minutes. So I applaud the coach for at least not being totally ignorant as far as his rotation tonight. Close, but not totally.</p>


<p>Back to the lie that was told us fans. Flip cheerfully announcers he cut Afflalo, a fine young player, out of the rotation. With the absurdly lame excuse that he was going to increase Stuckey's minutes. Afflalo still barely played, but Stuckey was cut to about 10 minutes. Lies. Now, who out there actually believed any of it. I certainly hope that more and more fans will understand that truth and Saunders are strangers. He wants his way, and thats all there is to it. The rest is just excuses. Lame as heck excuses.</p>


<p>Billups and Rip had fine shooting nights. But I sure hope they don't think they will ever win anything of importance on their own.</p>


<p>Foul trouble. Hard to notice it. But we had enough fouls on our bigs in the first half to where they were choosing to let people waltz in unchallenged. This paranoia of Flip's not to ever have to play Amir is truly hurting our defense. And believe me, other teams smell our fear and are crashing inside all they can. Now, Sacramento did not play a particulary smart game. They could have pretty much slaughtered us if they had went inside a bit more even than they did. Don't fool yourselves. With this coach of ours, Sacramento would beat us in a 7 game series.</p>


<p>Tay played aggressively to start the game and then vanished.</p>


<p>Dyess had a good shooting game, got some rebounds. Sure would be nice though if he could cover the inside. He is a good sub, a poor starter.</p>


<p>Oh well, let the inevitable flood of excuses start on Flip's behalf. But it won't help the team any. Fans who want to see the Pistons win this year, and we still can, should start hollering for two things. One, fire Flip. Two, play the youth.</p>

Near 0 production from the Bench and Sheed kind of did us in here. Maxiel was the only bench guy who scored with 5 points. I don't think we have gotten that low of production since LB's last year.

I would stick with the plan though. Stucky has not looked great and Afflalo not much better but thats what it is like sometimes with player developement. I think we sometimes get the idea that these young guys are always going to do magical things when they get the chance. But in reality Its a slow and sometimes painfull process. Ask Denver fans about Mello's rookie year.

Stick with the plan Flip. We keep saying that its ok to take a few losses for the good of the team. Well, here you go.

At least the team will be extra motivated for the Bulls.

Stuckey played poorly on both ends of the floor. He got 10 minutes, but certainly didn't deserve any more tonight. He was 0-for-4 shooting, got burned several times on defense, and was -17 while on the court. I like Stuckey, but he's got a long ways to go.

Hamilton and Billups played great tonight. These guys should both be All-Stars. When they are this hot, unless you are trying to lose, it would be stupider to not ride them. Tomorrow, you get more minutes to both Stuckey and Afflalo.

Near 0 production from the Bench and Sheed kind of did us in here. Maxiel was the only bench guy who scored with 5 points. I don't think we have gotten that low of production since LB's last year.

I would stick with the plan though. Stucky has not looked great and Afflalo not much better but thats what it is like sometimes with player developement. I think we sometimes get the idea that these young guys are always going to do magical things when they get the chance. But in reality Its a slow and sometimes painfull process. Ask Denver fans about Mello's rookie year.

Stick with the plan Flip. We keep saying that its ok to take a few losses for the good of the team. Well, here you go.

At least the team will be extra motivated for the Bulls.

Max, you did notice right. The plan was not stuck to tonight. Stuckey only played 10 minutes. Hayes can't play, and he only played 10 minutes. The only part of the plan stuck to at all was Maxiell getting minutes. Even he was insulted I am sure by his coach ignoring a fine game by him and going with the old folks at the end of the game.

Max, you did notice right. The plan was not stuck to tonight. Stuckey only played 10 minutes. Hayes can't play, and he only played 10 minutes. The only part of the plan stuck to at all was Maxiell getting minutes. Even he was insulted I am sure by his coach ignoring a fine game by him and going with the old folks at the end of the game.

12 mins of in-game play for Stucky and Afflalo is lot more than anyone else has gotten around here for a while. True its down from what it has been and lower than one would like but also Sacramento's bench is not a bench. Artest, Bibby and Martin is a joke comming off the bench. That kind of talent is hard to match up with. I know they are just trying to bring them along slowly but it was a dagger tonight for us.

Yes Maxiel has come to the point where I would not consider him a player in development anymore. He will get better of course but you don't need to hold his hand anymore.

What Rookie plan are you talking about? The only Rookie who played was Stuckey who played 10 minutes. Rip and CB played over 40 minutes each. Does this look like Rookie development? It was obvious that Flip was chasing the win and did not care about any development of any Rookie.
. Ask Denver fans about Mello's rookie year.

Stick with the plan Flip. We keep saying that its ok to take a few losses for the good of the team. Well, here you go.

At least the team will be extra motivated for the Bulls.

Alfllolo took two bad shots in his 2+ mins and was yanked. He needs more PT to be affective. I think driving to the hoop his next time out and getting his confidence back is what is needed. Hopefully with Billups playing 40 tonight and Rip almost 43, AA gets more burn tomorrow.

Stuckey's indecisiveness is turning him into another Arroyo as he is dribbling it to much and thinking to long about who to pass it to. Or he is picking up the dribble to fast and then is forced to make a bad pass. No TO's in his 10 minutes so one positive there.

Two things learned in the past week, we got beat by a team with a scorer off the bench in J Terry and tonight, lil Kmart and Bibby. I think it is time to move one of our scorers to the bench..Dice or Tyra, I mean Tay so that we can compete for 48 mins and not 38.

Only the third time this season the Pistons have lost a game when leading at the end of 3. (26-3 now)

12 mins of in-game play for Stucky and Afflalo is lot more than anyone else has gotten around here for a while. True its down from what it has been and lower than one would like but also Sacramento's bench is not a bench. Artest, Bibby and Martin is a joke comming off the bench. That kind of talent is hard to match up with. I know they are just trying to bring them along slowly but it was a dagger tonight for us.

Yes Maxiel has come to the point where I would not consider him a player in development anymore. He will get better of course but you don't need to hold his hand anymore.

The announced plan was 20 to 25 minutes. For Stuckey. Half is not meeting a goal very well. Playing Stuckey 10 minutes is no reason to hold Afflalo to 2 minutes. I consider this all a joke, perpetrated on us fans.

Now, this was all announced with loud trumpets, and not delivered on. It was a bad idea anyway.

Here is a much better plan: Have Stuckey just learn to play point guard, and have Afflalo just learn to be a shooting guard. Pair them up together, and make sure Rip and Billups get good long rests (preferrably the whole 2nd quarter) in the 2nd quarter.

blame the loss on my friend's mom - she's gone to 2 games this year and both were losses. the crowd was there tonight - actually showed up, it was mostly a sellout, and maintained excitement throughout the game.

unfortunately, the pistons had other plans. we lost this game because we didn't play defense, and the explanation is no simpler than that. complacency and laziness have set in - the pistons could have won this game if they played hard the entire 48 and they know it. but the problem is, they DO know that, and slacked off thinking they could turn it on. they're no longer wanting to kill teams like they did during the big win streak. if this continues, dumars has to step in.

sure stuckey's defense was bad, but it wasn't a matter of individual skill, it was a matter of not knowing how to defend the pick-and-roll with dyess. they were not on the same page, but it's correctable. but still, stuckey needs to be more selfish - he's there to be a game-changer, not a playbook-follower. hopefully saunders isn't trying to get him to play like the rest of the starters, because that's not going to fly.

With RonRon blowing kisses we had no chance.
Let's find some guys we can pick on. Like SanAntone.

We scored 16 points in the 4th against Sacramento. The offense is still vulnerable under the coaching staff and this is a more important issue and longer term issue than the loss.

Sheed is not the right guy to be on Artest outside at the end of the game. Maxiel should have been in from about the 6 minute mark for defense for Dyss.

This coaching staff is usually stymied when things don't go well--very slow to react. Again, a long term concern not just for this game.

The starters played way too many minutes and the defense was poor.

I wasn't able to watch this game, but looking a the box score, a couple of stats jumped out at me (unfortunately, not in a good way):

Stuckey, 10 mins, minus 17
J-Max, 20 mins, minus 14
Hayes, 10 mins, minues 18

The Pistons' starters playing 40+ minutes on the front end of a back to back = :wacko:
I have a hard time believing anything Flip says anymore. If you're going to use Stuckey as an excuse to play your starters into the ground, at least make it look credible by playing him more than 10 minutes. The bench has very little confidence right now; they're forcing things too much at times, and being too tentative at times. Regular season wins mean crap if your starters are dead tired when it counts. I bet the announcement of a shortened rotation was met with a lot of groans.

Second straight game where the two starting guards score 52+points to make up for an anemic bench and at least one front court man who barely shows up.

With two losses already to the Bulls, Flip will consider it a must win game so look for the starters to play another 38+ mins unless a couple of them get in foul trouble.

Pistons need to get some easy wins, when do we play the Sonics, Twolves, Heat and Clippers again:)

Everything went according to Flip's plan. Starters got overplayed, rookies barely got any playing time. The bottom line is: Flip doesn't seem to be getting the point that this town cares about playoffs not regular season wins. Stuckey seems to have lost all the offensive speed. He indeed turned into Chauncey 2 where he just stands on the top of the key dribbling and then just throwing the ball to Sheed or Rip. He's not doing anything to initiate the offense, and he's not looking to run or drive. He is just tentative. Great job, Flip.

I was openly rooting against the Pistons by the end of the first half. It is hard to put into words how angry Flip Saunders makes me. If I wanted to watch someone stupid do stupid things, I would go look in the mirror. He might as well take a metal chair to one of the starters knees at this point.

Well that was the first game in quite some time where the bench completely lost the game. Chauncey had one of his best games of the year, flirting with a triple double. 11 FT's was great. He was going inside and scoring from the outside. His 3 point shot is what really separates him from Stuckey right now. Chauncey is actually having an easier time getting to the rim because they are paranoid that he'll hit 3's unless they cheat out on him.

Sheed was pretty bad tonight with his shot selection. I don't mind it when he shoots 3's, but those flippant fade aways from 2-3 feet outside the line are just not going for him. And most of the time, he could just creep up and shoot the standard 3.

Anyways, I wish the bench would have played more, but in this case, I don't think that it would have resulted in a win. But that's OK. I would rather take a good loss with a full team effort and development than what we had tonight.

One other thing, Jarvis Hayes misses almost every single shot when he isn't 100% set. It's getting ugly.

Bibby may be playing for Cleveland before the Kings game with us.

Cavs will try, again, to trade for Bibby - Rumors - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Cavs-will-try-again-to-trade-for-Bibby?urn=nba,60257)


Yep, I would hate to see Cleveland make this trade.

What Rookie plan are you talking about? The only Rookie who played was Stuckey who played 10 minutes. Rip and CB played over 40 minutes each. Does this look like Rookie development? It was obvious that Flip was chasing the win and did not care about any development of any Rookie.

Did we see the same game? The same 2nd quarter that Stucky played in and was totally lit up by their guards? What was Flip supposed to do put him back in against Kevin Martin and Mike Bibby in the 3rd? Well he kind of did.

My point is? To keep Stucky in there for 10 mins when he was getting stuck by their guards, taking ill advised shots and not making any of them was generous. It was purely a case of player development. If he had played better then he would have gotten more time. That 20 MPG is not to be handed down it has to be earned. We got a taste of what real player develpment is like. Its not a magical formula. You put the guy in for as long as the team can hold its own.

Stuckey played poorly on both ends of the floor. He got 10 minutes, but certainly didn't deserve any more tonight. He was 0-for-4 shooting, got burned several times on defense, and was -17 while on the court. I like Stuckey, but he's got a long ways to go.

Hamilton and Billups played great tonight. These guys should both be All-Stars. When they are this hot, unless you are trying to lose, it would be stupider to not ride them. Tomorrow, you get more minutes to both Stuckey and Afflalo.

I agree. And the starters are not total wusses either. I think they can handle a game another game tomorrow after that 3 day rest. Its the 4 game in 6 night deals that are the killer.

Remember. The Pistons had a pretty good record on the 2nd game of back-backs from last season to early this season. They can handle more than we give them credit for.

You want something to complain about? Why is that hack Wally dude in there , playing out of positon, instead of Amir? That I can agree with. Last thing this team needs is another 3-pt shooting PF.

Anyway. I am out. Another game in 17 more hours. Team will be motivated for the Bulls. I guaransheed it.. Rack it.

Where has Rodney's aggressiveness gone? Ever since he has gotten into full-contact practices, he never drives the ball. It's always dribble up and pass to Rip for an Iso. Why is he even playing if that is his role? He's not out there for his D or his spot up jumper. He's in the game to attack off the dribble. I just don't understand Flip's gameplan here. Does he play against players strengths just for kicks?

Where has Rodney's aggressiveness gone? Ever since he has gotten into full-contact practices, he never drives the ball. It's always dribble up and pass to Rip for an Iso. Why is he even playing if that is his role? He's not out there for his D or his spot up jumper. He's in the game to attack off the dribble. I just don't understand Flip's gameplan here. Does he play against players strengths just for kicks?

Flip can't coach at all. I remember the starters getting worse the 2nd half of the 1st year when Flip started implementing his "playbook". Same thing seems to have happened to Stuckey.

I just skimmed through this thread so i'm probably repeating some things, but he's clueless. I give him props for going to AA and Hermann, but he has no idea what works and what doesn't.

AA was playing solid. Bench him.

Hermann playing solid. Bench him.

He then puts in Stuckey wayyy too late in the 4th quarter, and puts Jarvis Hayes back in who has been sucking all game. Apparently Walter cannot play the 3. Also pulling Max again for Dice; when it's obvious who should be finishing games.

Stuckey got lit up, and Hayes was usual defensive self. He has no idea what creates a winning basketball team. The starters got overplayed. The palace looked mostly empty again. The Cavs are 7 games back. Amir got no playing time yet again.

Good times.

hayes is 2-for-23 in his last 4 games.

i realized why i was so p1ssed off at the palace last night, and why i got worked up again when i got home. i was so mad because artest was being a d*ck the entire game, blowing kisses at the crowd a lot more times than you saw on TV. that would've been fine if we won. but the pistons didn't respond and didn't care, and that's what upset me.

if that happened during the Bad Boys era, we would've won by 30 last night and shoved it in his face. these pistons didn't care. they didn't care that the one player the crowd hates more than anyone was back at the palace, they didn't care that he was mocking the fans, and they didn't care that they had one of the best regular season crowds all year. i know a lot of people that went to the game who might attend 1 game a year (or less), and they had to pay to see that? if i was a player on the bench that would've been all the motivation i needed.

chuck daly was on local radio this week and his advice was to always win at home, and i think he was onto something. i can see why the pistons are such a good road team though.

this wasn't as bad as a game last year when i felt like i should've gotten my money back, because it was still a close and exciting game near the end, but it still worries me (and that doesn't happen often). this team can be scary good when they want, but the question that's going to make or break them in the playoffs is, how good do they want to be?

This team is not the Bad Boys. Those wre the Isiah and Laimbeer led teams with attitude. Our team today is a Joe Dumars led team which believes in a kinder and gentler NBA. Can't coach assertiveness. That's why we may struggle in the playoffs. We need the Zoo to be ready for playoff action. They need to be our x-factor off the bench. I certainly don't want another Billups off the bench. We're at 29-11. We need to finish with around 53 wins. That means going 24-18 the rest of the way. Play the rookies and take your lumps. Let's have 9 players in the rotation every night. Let them ALL average 20-32 minutes per game. We know how the starting five play. Let's see the others.

I wasn't able to watch this game, but looking a the box score, a couple of stats jumped out at me (unfortunately, not in a good way):

Stuckey, 10 mins, minus 17
J-Max, 20 mins, minus 14
Hayes, 10 mins, minues 18


Max was minus 22 i think in the first half.... that 2nd quarter was just brutal..... does any other team in the league play all 5 starters as long to start a game before starting to sub? If/When things then go bad with the bench your forced to overplay you starters when you do this wholesale sub pattern.... just a sad lose.

Well, well, well, everyone, exept max, is blaming flip for this...As max said, rooks are not "magicians". Seems like this forum expected from bench a sort of explosion but instead of they see rookie mistakes and therefore try to blame flip for this. Let's see your argument: flip sr "is holding stuckey's hand", instead of letting Stuckey penetrate, he forces stuckey to follow "playbook" and that doesn't suit to stuckey.
This explanation is extremly popular, but for me it represents narrow-mindness.

Imo, stuckey's recent woes has nothing to with flip and his playbook. Stuckey's woes are his inabilities.

Let take this "stuckey-always-penetrate" and see what happens:
1. Okey at first sight S. syprized defence with penetration skills, but but defenders adjusted very easely. Why?
2. Defenders saw that albeit S. is good penetrator, he is not threat behind 3 point arc, he can't shoot even closer to basket, he has no jumper.
3. Billups is threat from everywhere and in addition, billups reads a game, "picks his spot".
4. So, thats why S. is struggling: he has no playbook, i.e. he doesn't read a game, he doesn't adjust to defence, or doesn't force defence "to pick their poison" a la Billliups.
5.Conseqently, only result to stuckey"always penetrate" will be turnovers, travelings and offensive fouls. And god thanks, that is what S. is trying to avoid, by learnig playbook, He is so one-dimensional that in order to be sucessful he has to be very smart. Even smarter than Billups.

If you look at Sacs recent history, they lost Artest, Martin and Bibby for an extended time. With that, you see Salmons and Garcia taking an expanded role on the team. They get heavy minutes and greater responsibility. They both had to emerge during this time. Early on they got punked, were inconsistent but acclimated themselves to their new roles as key starters.
In fantasy basketball they were dropped repeatedly before they 'broke out' so they didn't just explode onto the scene as some big secret weapon. But eventually, they did put up numbers and the team found moderate success even with their big three nursing injuries.

So now you have a team that could hold its own against us but at this time, they are bringing three all star calibre players into the mix. Hello! of course our bench is going to look bad against Bibby and Artest.

I'm not going to blame Flip for this loss. It would be interesting though, to experiment with lineups and chemistry. I believe we have talent...but a lot of it is still very young.

Where has Rodney's aggressiveness gone? Ever since he has gotten into full-contact practices, he never drives the ball. It's always dribble up and pass to Rip for an Iso. Why is he even playing if that is his role? He's not out there for his D or his spot up jumper. He's in the game to attack off the dribble. I just don't understand Flip's gameplan here. Does he play against players strengths just for kicks?

It was flip's practices that has done him in. Flip has taken away the bench's passion which was defense. Affalo needs to play more because he does not have to score to be effective. Stuckey looks like a rookie, shame on the pistons for putting so much pressure on him; he needs to play loose and make his mistakes.

Sprocket Cap

(Better late than never.)

Fifteen of the prior twenty games against the Kings have gone against the Pistons. Wasting a superb game from Chauncey Billups last night at the Palace the Pistons are now five and sixteen against the Kings over the past several years. Billups’ 28 points (on 50% shooting), 8 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals, and no turnovers were nearly matched by Hamilton’s 24 on 67% shooting (but with five turnovers), and McDyess’ 14 on 54% shooting. Unfortunately the rest of the team shot 25% for the game, with Stuckey, Hayes, and Affalo failing to scratch in eleven attempts.

The first quarter opened without much intensity from either team. The Pistons opened up a five point lead halfway through on the back of threes from Sheed, Rip, and Tay, serving to counter a hot start by Brad Miller who had nine of the Kings’ first twelve points on four for four shooting at the six minute mark. The Pistons pushed the lead to nine forcing a Sacramento timeout at the 2:58 mark. The timeout allowed Sacramento to bring in their “bench”, Bibby, Martin, and Artest, who injected a little energy into the game and closed the lead to six at 29-23 at the quarter break.

The Sacramento bench starters continue their strong play in the second, taking the lead with a 15 – 4 run. The Pistons answer with a 7 – 0 run of their own, but the Sacramento lead settles in at eight points and remains there for the rest of the half. Shortly before the end of the quarter McDyess puts Artest on the floor with a crushing baseline screen that brings a cheer from the faithful, but by then the damage has been done. Despite a nice Wallace trap and steal, the Pistons turn the ball over and then have it stolen on the next possession to end the half down eight at 56 – 48.

The third opens in the same lackadaisical mode as the first and the teams trade baskets through the first six minutes with the Pistons making up one point on the Kings. The second half of the third becomes Billups’ time with a number of nice drives to the hoop (three resulting in three point plays), a three, and some free throws (15 points in the quarter if I counted right). His single handed barrage pushes the Pistons over the top and the quarter ends with a one point Pistons lead at 77 – 76.

The fourth opens with Artest back on the floor in a heap after a Prince foul on a dunk attempt. About that point a real ballgame breaks out on the Palace floor and both teams pick up the intensity. Sacramento employs a quicker line-up in the fourth with Artest playing power forward and gradually open up a six point lead on an Artest three and two missed free throws from McDyess at the three minute mark. Bad reach-in from behind fouls by Sheed and Dyess on consecutive possessions around the two minute mark keep the Kings in the game and up by three entering the final minute. A Maxiell turnover followed by a Sacramento offensive rebound and layup, and then misses by Hayes and Sheed make up the final margin and the Kings win 100 – 93.

No production from the bench and a thoroughly lackluster game from Sheed and Prince doomed the Pistons. Sheed ended up one for six from three (two for six from inside the line), with many shots from three or four feet behind the line, including a couple of fall-aways. Tay started the game well, but got manhandled by Artest when they were matched up and more or less just went away. The Pistons outrebounded the Kings by five, had assists on 23 of 34 hoops, and only turned the ball over ten times, but 42% shooting (63% from the line with eleven misses - four each by McDyess and Maxiell) wasn’t enough to get it done.

This team is not the Bad Boys. Those wre the Isiah and Laimbeer led teams with attitude. Our team today is a Joe Dumars led team which believes in a kinder and gentler NBA. Can't coach assertiveness. That's why we may struggle in the playoffs. We need the Zoo to be ready for playoff action. They need to be our x-factor off the bench. I certainly don't want another Billups off the bench. We're at 29-11. We need to finish with around 53 wins. That means going 24-18 the rest of the way. Play the rookies and take your lumps. Let's have 9 players in the rotation every night. Let them ALL average 20-32 minutes per game. We know how the starting five play. Let's see the others.
how many times have I posted this, nemo? u r so right...we are too good a team(?) to worry about HCA. We won the title with 54 wins in 04. This is our last stand (with Sheed on the team anyway).

The Pistons site will not load for some reason, and my computer crashed last night, so I only have footage up to the end of the 3rd Q.

Thanks for all of the posts, I will go through them this afternoon. :)

Well, well, well, everyone, exept max, is blaming flip for this...As max said, rooks are not "magicians". Seems like this forum expected from bench a sort of explosion but instead of they see rookie mistakes and therefore try to blame flip for this. Let's see your argument: flip sr "is holding stuckey's hand", instead of letting Stuckey penetrate, he forces stuckey to follow "playbook" and that doesn't suit to stuckey.
This explanation is extremly popular, but for me it represents narrow-mindness.

Imo, stuckey's recent woes has nothing to with flip and his playbook. Stuckey's woes are his inabilities.

Let take this "stuckey-always-penetrate" and see what happens:
1. Okey at first sight S. syprized defence with penetration skills, but but defenders adjusted very easely. Why?
2. Defenders saw that albeit S. is good penetrator, he is not threat behind 3 point arc, he can't shoot even closer to basket, he has no jumper.
3. Billups is threat from everywhere and in addition, billups reads a game, "picks his spot".
4. So, thats why S. is struggling: he has no playbook, i.e. he doesn't read a game, he doesn't adjust to defence, or doesn't force defence "to pick their poison" a la Billliups.
5.Conseqently, only result to stuckey"always penetrate" will be turnovers, travelings and offensive fouls. And god thanks, that is what S. is trying to avoid, by learnig playbook, He is so one-dimensional that in order to be sucessful he has to be very smart. Even smarter than Billups.
And let's put this out for the LAST time to those who dont understand THE LEAGUE and the GAME WITHIN THE GAME.

I really felt that Sacremento had talented players on the Floor last night. Look at the matchups:

Artest > Prince...best three way player in NBA
Miller > Sheed..olympian, team player
Martin > Rip...youth and heart..a young Rip
Moore > Dyess...energy and legs

The difference ? Billups > Udrih and Bibby, BUT two heads are better than one. AND Sacro hasnt earned league wide respect. I dont know what it is with them, so It must be between the ears.

As far as Flip goes: We dont care about wins and losses at this point...ITS HOW we win and lose. We cant wait until game 78 to start playing the bench more than 5 minutes a stretch(not a game- its when they are in the game that matter to me). We had it rolling and Flip just switched it off. There is NO team in the East that should beat us and only one MAN that can challenge us: LEBRON.

SO lets get to preparing for the title, saunders!

And let's put this out for the LAST time to those who dont understand THE LEAGUE and the GAME WITHIN THE GAME.

I really felt that Sacremento had talented players on the Floor last night. Look at the matchups:

Artest > Prince...best three way player in NBA
Miller > Sheed..olympian, team player
Martin > Rip...youth and heart..a young Rip
Moore > Dyess...energy and legs

The difference ? Billups > Udrih and Bibby, BUT two heads are better than one. AND Sacro hasnt earned league wide respect. I dont know what it is with them, so It must be between the ears.

As far as Flip goes: We dont care about wins and losses at this point...ITS HOW we win and lose. We cant wait until game 78 to start playing the bench more than 5 minutes a stretch(not a game- its when they are in the game that matter to me). We had it rolling and Flip just switched it off. There is NO team in the East that should beat us and only one MAN that can challenge us: LEBRON.

SO lets get to preparing for the title, saunders!
:p_welldone::cheerlie-GOAL:

hey, with RonRon doing so well, do you think he's about to go KK--BBoomm !! ?

Well, well, well, everyone, exept max, is blaming flip for this...As max said, rooks are not "magicians". Seems like this forum expected from bench a sort of explosion but instead of they see rookie mistakes and therefore try to blame flip for this. Let's see your argument: flip sr "is holding stuckey's hand", instead of letting Stuckey penetrate, he forces stuckey to follow "playbook" and that doesn't suit to stuckey.
This explanation is extremly popular, but for me it represents narrow-mindness.

Imo, stuckey's recent woes has nothing to with flip and his playbook. Stuckey's woes are his inabilities.

Let take this "stuckey-always-penetrate" and see what happens:
1. Okey at first sight S. syprized defence with penetration skills, but but defenders adjusted very easely. Why?
2. Defenders saw that albeit S. is good penetrator, he is not threat behind 3 point arc, he can't shoot even closer to basket, he has no jumper.
3. Billups is threat from everywhere and in addition, billups reads a game, "picks his spot".
4. So, thats why S. is struggling: he has no playbook, i.e. he doesn't read a game, he doesn't adjust to defence, or doesn't force defence "to pick their poison" a la Billliups.
5.Conseqently, only result to stuckey"always penetrate" will be turnovers, travelings and offensive fouls. And god thanks, that is what S. is trying to avoid, by learnig playbook, He is so one-dimensional that in order to be sucessful he has to be very smart. Even smarter than Billups.

You make some good points. The other thing that the Kings (as well as some other teams lately) did is went to a zone defense when Stuckey was in the game. It stops his strength, which is the penetration.

these 'nice' artest stories in the local papers make me nervous

these 'nice' artest stories in the local papers make me nervous

did you boo him during a game? Feeling scruples now ?

these 'nice' Artest stories in the local papers make me nervous
-
I think they're best for everyone...
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RonRon:dj::lock1::diablo::skull:

did you boo him during a game? Feeling scruples now ?

yeah i loudly booed him at the palace every time he touched the ball