At Chicago January 19th, 8:30 PM

TV20 Detroit, NBALP

The Pistons pay a visit to the dysfunctional Bulls who currently hold the 11th seed in the Eastern Conference. However, they are 2-0 against the second seed Pistons this year.

At Chicago January 19th, 8:30 PM

TV20 Detroit, NBALP

The Pistons pay a visit to the dysfunctional Bulls who currently hold the 11th seed in the Eastern Conference. However, they are 2-0 against the second seed Pistons this year.
Bulls had their best games against the Pistons this year, and Pistons, so far, weren't up to the challenge. Hopefully this trend reverses this time. Kick them while they're down.

Kick them while they're down.

They were down since the season started and we still were not able to kick them, let alone beat them. Anyway, i hope your wishes come true though.

Kick them while they're down.

They're even having problems with their D-League guys:

ESPN - Bulls rookie Curry arrested for urinating in public, resisting arrest - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3201750)

They're even having problems with their D-League guys:

ESPN - Bulls rookie Curry arrested for urinating in public, resisting arrest - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3201750)

I bet Curry was really POd about this.

:hoops:

For some reason, a couple of Pistons seemed intimidated by Ben or even Ty Thomas in the middle in those first two games. Now this isn't a proven fact, but let me throw some numbers at you.

Game 1 Bulls win 97-93. Tay and Dice take only 7 shots between them and hit 3 of them. They do however go to the line and hit 6/10. Sheed tries to be the one man gang vs Tyrus Thomas and took 24 shots for his so far season high 36 points Pistons get out PIP'ed 42-26.

Game 2, Bulls win 98-91. Tay and Dice shoot a combined 4-19 with only 1 trip to the FT line and 8 points between them. Ben grabs 13 boards and has four blocks, and to make matters worse hits 8-9 FT's. Which means that Been had as many points at the FT line than Tay and Dice combined. Oh yeah, Pistons get out PIP'ed again 34-26.

To make a long story short here, we got to get more production out of our two starting forwards if we expect to win this game. We know that will not be an easy task as they will probably be worn out the night before battling with Kmart, Salmons and Artest for 35+mins....:mad:

Urinating in public is a strange offense.

If you pee your pants, no crime?

Urinating in public is a strange offense.

If you pee your pants, no crime?


In the books, it called, "going with the flow".......:)

Urinating in public is a strange offense.

If you pee your pants, no crime?

My pants are my property, but urinating in public usually means "damaging" somebody's property and that's crime. If you urinate in your own backyard, you are not criminal but (in most cases) drunk.

:faint2:

dice confessed, that they tool sactown lightly, if so, they were rightfully punished. Hope, they punish bulls, rightfully, or not.

GO PISTONS!

dice confessed, that they took sactown lightly, if so, they were rightfully punished. Hope, they punish bulls, rightfully, or not.

GO PISTONS!

I'm pumped up! Let's gooooo Pistons!

Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

I hope that this shortening the bench strategy has failed

I hope that this shortening the bench strategy has failed

I would think it has. I dunno for how much longer they'll stick with it, though.

CHI owns us. We own ourselves as well.

Wow, what a game. The Pistons played terrible.

I wonder when the trade is coming....

Wow, what a game. The Pistons played terrible.

I wonder when the trade is coming....

We need to trade the coach.

Imagine if CHI gets the 7th seed :stirthepot:

Wow, what a game. The Pistons played terrible.

I wonder when the trade is coming....

My guess would be a week before or at the trade deadline. Brezec and Herrmann can't be packaged before then.

I took a peak at the boxscore. I had a friendly bet with someone. I won the bet. Stuckey only played 8 minutes tonight. What is Saunders excuse this time? (This guy actually thought Stuckey would get 20 minutes. Doesn't he know Saunders coaches this team?)


Our team was doing fine, a tie game, when Stuckey was pulled way too early in the 2nd quarter. There was no reason for that. Of course, as I predicted, Stuckey did not get 6 first half minutes.


This was a 2nd game of a back to back set. Time to rest people big time in the 2nd quarter. Now, things were not that bad. But Tay played pretty much the first 18, maybe 19 minutes of the game. He was absolutely useless in the 2nd half of the game.


Now, Stuckey did not get his development time, but Afflalo did play. Flip did show some common sense tonight, pulling two starters very early in the 3rd quarter as this game was heading toward disaster. Afflalo and JMAX helped get us back to within 1.


Mysteriously though, Afflalo was not out there to start the 4th quarter. Our perimeter defense broke down immediately and Chicago pushed right back out to a double digit lead.


Afflalo was then brought back in, and was expected to save the Pistons a 2nd time. But we went with three guards when he came in, something that seemed nuts in a game where we could not get any boards.


Still, at least Stuckey and Afflalo each got 8 minutes of playing time. Amir did not play. Flip would much rather lose a game vs. let Amir play. We had deep, serious foul trouble in this one, and the best Saunders could do was trudge Herrmann out there as a power forward. Hmmm, just how many points did that lose us to Chicago at the end of the first half. Got to review that. Hey, Flip, use a power forward if you need a power forward. Preferrably someone who can rebound and block shots.
But at least Saunders added someone to the rotation.


Billups had a fine game. Got to the line a lot, made plenty of shots. Rip did some scoring in the first half at least. Sheed? Not much. Dyess did have some rebounds, but he was scoreless in the first half, and was in there while they were killing us on the boards. No defense. At least he had the boards. This was a back to back. I believe Dyess played about 67 minutes between the two games. No way he can handle that.


Stuckey spelled Billups for just under 6 minutes, stretching from the last two minutes of the first quarter to about 4 minutes into the 2nd quarter. He made a jumper. He had a good feed to Maxiell under the basket, but Maxiell got blocked. Stuckey in all was doing just fine there; he was taken out solely because Flaunders does not understand the game of basketball. Stuckey was needed to continue to add energy for us. We did quite badly the rest of the quarter.


Rip was rested more than usual compared to lately. Hayes and Prince played as a tandem about 6 minutes into the 2nd quarter. But this is a back to back. Rip still should not have come back into the game. Afflalo should have played the end of the first half, because we needed his energy.


Amir Johnson should have played in this game. Extensively. Chicago beat us in the 2nd half by playing a rookie, full of energy, as one of their bigs. We could not match their energy.


This was a coaching loss. Another failed attempt at cutting a very deserving player, Afflalo, out of the rotation. Hey, Flip, good job of bringing him in, but next game, drop the non-sense. Play Afflalo a lot.
I highly doubt it, cause as of yet, Saunders won't admit there is such a thing as fatigue, but just maybe, just maybe, Saunders will get it after this one. Do what Dumars wants, play the young guys.


Hayes did hit some shots tonight. But like the last 2nd quarter where he played most of it, the other team scored 30. Thankfully, at least Deng was injured and not playing tonight. It would have been far uglier.

Well, we asked for development. The Forum consensus was that we were happy to lose games for the sake of development. This is harder than it looks. I hate losing, I know the team hates it, but we are "developing".....aren't we???? I'm about to go and cry myself to sleep.

Well, we asked for development. The Forum consensus was that we were happy to lose games for the sake of development. This is harder than it looks. I hate losing, I know the team hates it, but we are "developing".....aren't we???? I'm about to go and cry myself to sleep.

Have a good hard cry, cause just giving Afflalo and Stuckey 8 minutes each ain't getting any development accomplished.

If Flip was not developing players then Hunter/Murray would have gotten those 16 mins. They would also have gotten the 12 mins last night and we probably would have won that game.

This game. Team just did not have it. Bulls did play great D though. One could never tell that they played the night before. It was obvious our team did.

Another dissapointing Saturday night game. What can you do.

Lucked out on the game, flipping through channels forgot I got WGN, and got to watch the game.

Then the pain came. Other than CB, we played like crap. Flip panicked, and refused to give the starters any rest except for Rip when Hayes starting getting hot; and Sheed when the refs called him for one too many fouls.

Observations:
CB is chippy, gotta love it, especially that he gets away with it so much.
JMax is in a downward spiral. It seems teams are adjusting to his play. His shots are getting blocked; ticky tack fouls; and poor decisions.
Flip needs to play the bench, even in bad moments. Hayes can score, Stuckey can score. Hermann can play D. We have depth, no time to play scared just because we're down in the 2nd quarter.

I've got nothing else to add. Just disgusted with the current developments on this team.

Well, we asked for development. The Forum consensus was that we were happy to lose games for the sake of development. This is harder than it looks. I hate losing, I know the team hates it, but we are "developing".....aren't we???? I'm about to go and cry myself to sleep.
Losing does not = developing. The young guys barely played. The core guys are playing big minutes and we're still losing. Amir never plays, tonight was no different. AA/Stuckey COMBINE for 16 minutes. In what way is that developing? The Pistons aren't losing games because of the rooks. They're not always helping a whole lot, but the starters are back to being unfocused and looking tired. All the while, Flip continues to press all the wrong buttons.

Losing does not = developing. The young guys barely played. The core guys are playing big minutes and we're still losing. Amir never plays, tonight was no different. AA/Stuckey COMBINE for 16 minutes. In what way is that developing? The Pistons aren't losing games because of the rooks. They're not always helping a whole lot, but the starters are back to being unfocused and looking tired. All the while, Flip continues to press all the wrong buttons.

He doesn't seem to know what to press though.

:angrysoapbox::tape2::censored:

14 point final quarter from our high powered offense. 16 points vs. Sacramento. Is it the players or the system?

I don't understand why we always seem to have Hayes/Prince, Hayes/Herrmann, or Prince/ Herrmann out there together. Seems redundant to me.

So glad I didn't waste $100 to go to this game.

Noah was a handful. Reminded me of Amir with the way he was keeping the ball alive.

Aw c'mon, when we were winning it was all ok.

Well, Fabio looked crazy out there. His name should be Crazylegs. Jumping at everything that moved. Jittery, IMO

Shortening the bench didn't get us that winning streak. It was expanding that bench.

Cut down those starter minutes Flip, you idiot. Play Stuckey and Afflalo, and some Amir before Brezec and Fabio.

I miss winning right now.

Lucked out on the game, flipping through channels forgot I got WGN, and got to watch the game.

Then the pain came. Other than CB, we played like crap. Flip panicked, and refused to give the starters any rest except for Rip when Hayes starting getting hot; and Sheed when the refs called him for one too many fouls.

Observations:
CB is chippy, gotta love it, especially that he gets away with it so much.
JMax is in a downward spiral. It seems teams are adjusting to his play. His shots are getting blocked; ticky tack fouls; and poor decisions.
Flip needs to play the bench, even in bad moments. Hayes can score, Stuckey can score. Hermann can play D. We have depth, no time to play scared just because we're down in the 2nd quarter.

Just to clarify, Saunders got scared with us even this time. Scared that the bench would show something maybe, so he would have to keep playing them? He never should have taken Stuckey out of the game in a tie game.

So Tay gets 4 baskets, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists in 42 minutes. I don't see how Playing AJ 10 minutes is going to hurt this team. Either way, we lose the game............I would even play the guy who looks like SAMPSON more..........

14 point final quarter from our high powered offense. 16 points vs. Sacramento. Is it the players or the system?

It is the system...........they seem to stand around when things get tough in a game.....when tay has the ball...he holds it until 5 seconds then someone has to put up a bad shot to beat the clock. It happens over and over again.

So Tay gets 4 baskets, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists in 42 minutes. I don't see how Playing AJ 10 minutes is going to hurt this team. Either way, we lose the game............I would even play the guy who looks like SAMPSON more..........

Exactly.......just look at the game again.....tay looks like a tired old man out there. Look at his facial expressions.........far too many minutes

I propose another explanation, why flip is flip: coaches work is to demand always more than has accomplished(at least in pro sport). And playing struggling startes to 40-s is maybe a message: wanna rest? then play well! bench doesn't have to clean away starters sh!t. Bench is there for helping, but starters have responsibility(so their work is to clean away bench's sh!t too).

But all this we are writing here is purely hypothetical, of course. None of us has seen "kitchen's side of coaching"

This was a coaching loss. Another failed attempt at cutting a very deserving player, Afflalo, out of the rotation. Hey, Flip, good job of bringing him in, but next game, drop the non-sense. Play Afflalo a lot.
I highly doubt it, cause as of yet, Saunders won't admit there is such a thing as fatigue, but just maybe, just maybe, Saunders will get it after this one. Do what Dumars wants, play the young guys.

Way, way too easy. I was calling for Flip's head after the playoffs last year, but in the end, it wasn't Flip last night but the starting frontline who shot 8 for 26, it wasn't Flip who missed ten free throws and a dozen three point shots, or turned the ball over 14 times.

Yeah, it was a back to back, a whole 45 minute airplane ride away. These guys have got to be able to play two heavy minutes games back to back and still come out with a little pride and spunk.

Last night wasn't a scheduling loss, not a coaching loss. It was the best starting five in the league just not showing up.

Telling sequence: Tay had Noah on him and tried to drive and could not get by him. Hemmingway could not describe his futile attempt at dribbling. It looked like an amputee trying to dribble with their stub leg. I would have to think for a while to come up with a 3 who could not drive on Noah. Noah, by the way, would look great sitting at the end of DET's bench.

Sheed had 2 fouls in the 1st half and ends up guarding Nocioni. You have to know he's probably going to pick up a cheapie there. To open the 2nd half he's guarding Smith when Ben is out there. If you are so dependent on these guys, can't you do these little things to hopefully maximize their time on the floor?

Why would you make the declaration that the rotation(?) is being trimmed if you didn't think that Stuckey could handle it? Honestly, since that announcement I've been rooting against them. I like the players but hate the team. I am tired of the pursuit of mediocrity.

There are too many players here for Flip. He laments what they can't do instead of taking advantage of what they can. A guy like AA is useless to Flip because he doesn't instinctively stand out by the 3 point line and throw shots up. It is comical to think of how he would use Bruce Bowen.

I don't know why, but this is heaven for Flip. He knows he is only a few more games like this from having some guys walk with permanent limps while others nod off on the bench. He gets paid the same regardless. Why work harder than he needs to?

Telling sequence: Tay had Noah on him and tried to drive and could not get by him. Hemmingway could not describe his futile attempt at dribbling. It looked like an amputee trying to dribble with their stub leg. I would have to think for a while to come up with a 3 who could not drive on Noah. Noah, by the way, would look great sitting at the end of DET's bench.

Sheed had 2 fouls in the 1st half and ends up guarding Nocioni. You have to know he's probably going to pick up a cheapie there. To open the 2nd half he's guarding Smith when Ben is out there. If you are so dependent on these guys, can't you do these little things to hopefully maximize their time on the floor?

Why would you make the declaration that the rotation(?) is being trimmed if you didn't think that Stuckey could handle it? Honestly, since that announcement I've been rooting against them. I like the players but hate the team. I am tired of the pursuit of mediocrity.

There are too many players here for Flip. He laments what they can't do instead of taking advantage of what they can. A guy like AA is useless to Flip because he doesn't instinctively stand out by the 3 point line and throw shots up. It is comical to think of how he would use Bruce Bowen.

I don't know why, but this is heaven for Flip. He knows he is only a few more games like this from having some guys walk with permanent limps while others nod off on the bench. He gets paid the same regardless. Why work harder than he needs to?
:cold::cold::cold:

Telling sequence: Tay had Noah on him and tried to drive and could not get by him. Hemmingway could not describe his futile attempt at dribbling. It looked like an amputee trying to dribble with their stub leg. I would have to think for a while to come up with a 3 who could not drive on Noah. Noah, by the way, would look great sitting at the end of DET's bench.

Sheed had 2 fouls in the 1st half and ends up guarding Nocioni. You have to know he's probably going to pick up a cheapie there. To open the 2nd half he's guarding Smith when Ben is out there. If you are so dependent on these guys, can't you do these little things to hopefully maximize their time on the floor?

Why would you make the declaration that the rotation(?) is being trimmed if you didn't think that Stuckey could handle it? Honestly, since that announcement I've been rooting against them. I like the players but hate the team. I am tired of the pursuit of mediocrity.

There are too many players here for Flip. He laments what they can't do instead of taking advantage of what they can. A guy like AA is useless to Flip because he doesn't instinctively stand out by the 3 point line and throw shots up. It is comical to think of how he would use Bruce Bowen.

I don't know why, but this is heaven for Flip. He knows he is only a few more games like this from having some guys walk with permanent limps while others nod off on the bench. He gets paid the same regardless. Why work harder than he needs to?

Sorry, but source of complacency was that players (i.e. starters) thought like "we've been there( in finals), seen that all, don 't worry coach, we know everything what we need to know."

And all pistons fans (not only in this forum) complained about such attitude and cursed flip 'cuz he didn't ride harder on players.

And NOW you're complaining that flip demand too much!! IMO this demanding more is the only way how to get rid of complacency: those starters(maybe bench too) need to learn that they are not invincible, that opponents doesn't care that "they have been there-blah-blah-blah".

So Tay gets 4 baskets, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists in 42 minutes. I don't see how Playing AJ 10 minutes is going to hurt this team. Either way, we lose the game............I would even play the guy who looks like SAMPSON more..........
Gerald Wallace last night: 28 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assists, 7 steals...Tay will never have a stat game like that. I am officially through with him.....sissy..

It seems that Flip makes a big point of the fact that the Pistons start standing around and not moving the ball. He says this after the game as if he just noticed it. Why can't he notice it during the game and make the correction?

Does Flip encourage them to just take jumpers, even though they are not hitting?

How can he stick with somebody who is obviously not hitting?

What happened to our fabulous zone?

When they lack energy like the last two games, why not just shake it up with high energy guys?

Flip should recognize these things as the game is going on and make adjustments at the time, instead of just complaining about it afterward.

It seems that Flip makes a big point of the fact that the Pistons start standing around and not moving the ball. He says this after the game as if he just noticed it. Why can't he notice it during the game and make the correction?

Or the players could make the correction.

Something tells me Flip does tell them to move the ball during the game. As much as I don't like Flip, I'm pretty sure even he realizes what's going on with the offense.

But if "good ball movement" is as simplistic as Flip's offense is, this team is in real trouble. Gotta figure out some other ways to score than passing the ball around the perimeter. If Joe D does make a trade, it better for a post presence, unless they're gonna give Amir a shot.

It seems that Flip makes a big point of the fact that the Pistons start standing around and not moving the ball. He says this after the game as if he just noticed it. Why can't he notice it during the game and make the correction?

Does Flip encourage them to just take jumpers, even though they are not hitting?

How can he stick with somebody who is obviously not hitting?

What happened to our fabulous zone?

When they lack energy like the last two games, why not just shake it up with high energy guys?









Flip should recognize these things as the game is going on and make adjustments at the time, instead of just complaining about it afterward.

I understand your complaint but take it into consideration, that in this team ONLY sheed is decent(and just decent, nothing more) post-up player, maxiell can't even hit da rim when posting up and dice is to slow-only results to his post-up tries are turnovers. Only good penetrator is billups, stuckey can't penetrate when defence takes him seriously enough. Hayes is pure shooter, weak defender, afflalo is pure defender, weak shooter. Hermann and Brezec are rental players and AJ abilities -?.

And when team went into zone everyone in this forum cursed flip.

Gerald Wallace last night: 28 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assists, 7 steals...Tay will never have a stat game like that. I am officially through with him.....sissy..

Yeah, GW is spectacular.

But consider this.

In the last 4 years, GW has played in 237 games while Prince has been in 410 (plus the Team USA stuff).

If you take into account the games that Wallace has missed, I would say that Tay has been the more valuable player.

Yeah, GW is spectacular.

But consider this.

In the last 4 years, GW has played in 237 games while Prince has been in 410 (plus the Team USA stuff).

If you take into account the games that Wallace has missed, I would say that Tay has been the more valuable player.
if i hear one more player play the tired card on these spoiled=ass 30 yr old millionaires, i'm gonna pull an artest!!! If Tay is so tired, put him on the bench cuz he aint doing crap on the court anyway. anyone else noticed that Tay's demise actually occured when Rip came back?
We got a weak coach who was weak when he got here and has done nothing to show that he can lead this team through a 'lighted tunnel'!!!

Gerald Wallace last night: 28 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assists, 7 steals...Tay will never have a stat game like that. I am officially through with him.....sissy..

Maybe not exactly like that, but how about this one

34 points, 12 rebs (4 off), 2 assists, 1 steal

:stirthepot:

if i hear one more player play the tired card on these spoiled=ass 30 yr old millionaires, i'm gonna pull an artest!!! If Tay is so tired, put him on the bench cuz he aint doing crap on the court anyway. anyone else noticed that Tay's demise actually occured when Rip came back?
We got a weak coach who was weak when he got here and has done nothing to show that he can lead this team through a 'lighted tunnel'!!!

I wasn't arguing that he's tired at all. I was saying that he's durable. I'd rather have Tay at 85% of GW's production level than have Wallace play half the games in a season and be in a suit for the other half. Look at his history.

I'm pretty sure the Pistons are going to make a move. There is no other way to justify playing Hermann, who is clearly not one of the 12 best players on the team.

In fact, Brezec is fairly stiff as well, and I think Joe moved Nazr while he could to pick up some valuable expiring contracts specifically for this reason.

So applying a little bit of twisted logic, we are in fact developing. We're developing our trade assets.

No offense to anyone here, but I yet have to see a reasonable and plausible reason for why we are not playing well. It's not that we didn't play the kids, and it's not Saunders fault. I don't buy fatigue either.

This is a team in a slump and the players have to play themselves out of it with the coaches help. That means changes in the line-up at the beginning of the game and giving additional time to the youngsters to develop.

Flip needs to be put on a "Performance improvement or action plan" to turn this ship around and that includes sitting someone like Tay (who needs the rest ), Sheed or Dice if they are just mailing it in). Joe can grade him at the end of a series of 5 game intervals to see if he is giving the new guys ample playing time to develop and he is keeping the vets mins below 32.

Our front court issues have been exposed ever since Big Baby scored 20 points on us two weeks ago. (He has played six games since then and has scored a mighty 13 points!!) Herrmman and Brezic are not the answers. It appears than none of the starting front court want to attack the rim settling for jumpers. tay attacks the rim 3-4 times a game, but it takes him to long to set it up. Sheed's turnaround jumper is either right on or off, but he only tries it 2-4 times a game. If Dice gets an offensive board, he tries a layup, but he usually shoots it from where ever he receives which in some instances is 17 feet from the hoop. Both he and Sheed should try going to the basket -(if the coach had the balzz to enforce it) instead the fadeaways. Like someone said last night, we like JMAX intensity, but that dunk is becoming a joke if he is only hitting on it 50% of the time.

We can always suggest trading to get a better post presence, but Flip didn't know how to use Ben, Nazr or Webber in the post so why bother. Doc appears to know how to use KG, better than Flip did in Minnesota. Can flip convince his players to take high % shots or go to the paint? The jury is still out. At least Rip went in for a couple of layups last night in the throwaway 4th quarter, to stop the drought, but why didn't our starting front court try it?:confused: IMO Flip should have thrown out the white flag at the eight minute mark of the 4th and brought in Amir, Stuck, AA, Hayes and JMAX to see if that unit could get them going and if they did, maybe brought back in CB at the 3-4 minute mark for the crunch time experience, but nope, Flip goes down to the wire with his vets on a hope, wing and prayer that they could pull it out even though they had put up big mins the night before.

You can't fire a coach whose team is in first place, but somethings gotta give here. Is it possible he can have some surgery that keeps him away for six months?:):sssh:

Joe I hope you read this...if you did can you PM via text on your BlackBerry to mine to confirm?:heh:

I'm pretty sure the Pistons are going to make a move. There is no other way to justify playing Hermann, who is clearly not one of the 12 best players on the team.

In fact, Brezec is fairly stiff as well, and I think Joe moved Nazr while he could to pick up some valuable expiring contracts specifically for this reason.

So applying a little bit of twisted logic, we are in fact developing. We're developing our trade assets.

No offense to anyone here, but I yet have to see a reasonable and plausible reason for why we are not playing well. It's not that we didn't play the kids, and it's not Saunders fault. I don't buy fatigue either.

I'm 110% behind of your post's last paragraph: all those fire flip and swap Prince to Gerald Wallace posts are childish.

IMO, starters after last season really started doubting, whether they are invincible or not. So they came to this season with fire i.e. to prove.
Playing with attitude gave desired results: win at Boston and overall 11 game winning streak showed to starters, that they are still invincible. And that was all starters needed to know, and they fell into complacency again. And that's why flip plays starters extended minutes: he tries to "wake up" them. And seems that dumars agreed with that tactic.

Yeah, GW is spectacular.

But consider this.

In the last 4 years, GW has played in 237 games while Prince has been in 410 (plus the Team USA stuff).

If you take into account the games that Wallace has missed, I would say that Tay has been the more valuable player.

Out of those 410 games played; how many did Tay play like crap?

I bet Wallace didn`t take any off that he did play in.

I would take the chance on Wallace as a Piston in a heartbeat!

if i hear one more player play the tired card on these spoiled=ass 30 yr old millionaires, i'm gonna pull an artest!!! If Tay is so tired, put him on the bench cuz he aint doing crap on the court anyway. anyone else noticed that Tay's demise actually occured when Rip came back?
We got a weak coach who was weak when he got here and has done nothing to show that he can lead this team through a 'lighted tunnel'!!!

It is a player's league (remember Patton). Combine this with gutless GMs and you have inmates running the institution. Electro-shock therapy (in modern fashion) has tremendous benefits and is quite effective.

JD best get those old fashion paddles ready.

Out of those 410 games played; how many did Tay play like crap?

I bet Wallace didn`t take any off that he did play in.

I would take the chance on Wallace as a Piston in a heartbeat!

Do we think that maybe we have seen the best of Tay?? I mean has he already peaked?? I know he will be 28 next month and still has 4 years of good basketball in him, but I think he is still tradeable for someone who can give us 18-8 everynight and is not affraid to attack the rim...He has a mean lefthanded dunk, but has he ever learned how to use the backboard for a layup or back a man down with his right hand??? If the Pistons don't push the ball for a fast break you can always find him standing in front the bench waiting to toss a up a three ball.... Tay is a career 14-5 man, Wallace is 2.5 years younger, can play D too and this year is averaging 21.5 and 6, and has scored over 26 points in 5 out of his last six games. (because he penetrates). I am sure there are others out there to we can use......

It is a player's league (remember Patton). Combine this with gutless GMs and you have inmates running the institution. Electro-shock therapy (in modern fashion) has tremendous benefits and is quite effective.

JD best get those old fashion paddles ready.

Ahh, dreams, dreams. In case of NBA, demand are far ahead of supply and therefore contracts are veeeery player-friendly.GM-s are not gutless, the just have no choice, market dictates prices.

Out of those 410 games played; how many did Tay play like crap?

I bet Wallace didn`t take any off that he did play in.

I would take the chance on Wallace as a Piston in a heartbeat!

OK, first of all, is Charlotte going to trade Wallace for Tay? No.

I'd take Kobe for Rip too. And KG for Sheed. Definitely Duncan over McDyess.

Just because you can find a player or two better than the one we have doesn't mean that our guy is inadequate. We have a collection of top 50 players with no top 10 players. If you get a top 10 player, you're going to have to pay them a ton of money, and you'll be lacking somewhere else.

Here what you get from each player over the course of a season:

Prince- 1,094 pts/ 400 rebs/ 400 ast/ 58 stl/ 59 blck/ 110 TO/ 131 PF
G Wall- 749 pts/ 348 rebs/ 109 ast/ 103 st/ 72 blk/ 106 TO/ 145 PF

I just don't think we have it that bad.

I'm pretty sure the Pistons are going to make a move. There is no other way to justify playing Hermann, who is clearly not one of the 12 best players on the team.

In fact, Brezec is fairly stiff as well, and I think Joe moved Nazr while he could to pick up some valuable expiring contracts specifically for this reason.

So applying a little bit of twisted logic, we are in fact developing. We're developing our trade assets.

No offense to anyone here, but I yet have to see a reasonable and plausible reason for why we are not playing well. It's not that we didn't play the kids, and it's not Saunders fault. I don't buy fatigue either.


I hope so. I do write that with a heavy heart though as whoever they trade will be missed. But this team could really use a shake up. Not a Flip Murry for a 2nd rounder but actually moving one of the starters.

Dumars did not make a trade over the summer because he thought getting a bench would help motivate the starters. It worked for a spell but we are back to the same old again.

Also adding on. Dumars said the Mohammed trade was about freeing up cap space to persue an FA this summer. But for who and where is he going to play? We already have everything locked up with this group.

OK, first of all, is Charlotte going to trade Wallace for Tay? No.

I'd take Kobe for Rip too. And KG for Sheed. Definitely Duncan over McDyess.

Just because you can find a player or two better than the one we have doesn't mean that our guy is inadequate. We have a collection of top 50 players with no top 10 players. If you get a top 10 player, you're going to have to pay them a ton of money, and you'll be lacking somewhere else.

Here what you get from each player over the course of a season:

Prince- 1,094 pts/ 400 rebs/ 400 ast/ 58 stl/ 59 blck/ 110 TO/ 131 PF
G Wall- 749 pts/ 348 rebs/ 109 ast/ 103 st/ 72 blk/ 106 TO/ 145 PF

I just don't think we have it that bad.

I am not saying Charlotte would trade Wallace for Tay. I am saying, I don`t care what the stats over their careers say right now, at this very moment I would take Wallace instead of Prince.

Period.

I am not saying Charlotte would trade Wallace for Tay. I am saying, I don`t care what the stats over their careers say right now, at this very moment I would take Wallace instead of Prince.

Period.

I totally disagree. I'd much rather take Lebron than Wallace.

I totally disagree. I'd much rather take Lebron than Wallace.

Very funny.

How about posting their career stats so we can compare!

Maybe not exactly like that, but how about this one

34 points, 12 rebs (4 off), 2 assists, 1 steal

:stirthepot:Nope, not the same...LOL

I wasn't arguing that he's tired at all. I was saying that he's durable. I'd rather have Tay at 85% of GW's production level than have Wallace play half the games in a season and be in a suit for the other half. Look at his history.
oh..,,......

Ahh, dreams, dreams. In case of NBA, demand are far ahead of supply and therefore contracts are veeeery player-friendly.GM-s are not gutless, the just have no choice, market dictates prices.
Every now and then, i get a wierd feeling that a Piston employee is hired to read through our posts....
Just a thought, but are you working tomorrow at , say, 7PM in Auburn Hills?

Every now and then, i get a wierd feeling that a Piston employee is hired to read through our posts....
Just a thought, but are you working tomorrow at , say, 7PM in Auburn Hills?

Sadly not tomorrow. Plane what used to fly From Estonia to Detroit is out of order at this moment.

I can bet that Flipsr is very happy when he hears this. No bench=48 min to starting5, even more from possible overtime.

didn't really watch the game, and glad i didn't

It is the system...........they seem to stand around when things get tough in a game.....when tay has the ball...he holds it until 5 seconds then someone has to put up a bad shot to beat the clock. It happens over and over again.
That also happens when Chauncey has the ball and when Rasheed has the ball and when Stuckey has the ball and when Lindsey has the ball.