At Orlando Jan. 21st, 7:00 PM

TV20 Detroit, NBALP

The Orlando Magic and Detroit Pistons are experiencing a tough January. The Magic are 3-6, the Pistons 5-5 thus far in 2008. This is the first of two contests this week between the 2nd and 3rd seed teams in the EC.

We've lost 4 games in a row to teams with losing records. We should beat these guys since they're pretty good.

We've lost 4 games in a row to teams with losing records. We should beat these guys since they're pretty good.

They are not that good. They have been slumping more than we have. And Pistons own them as of late. I wonder what effort to expect.

They are not that good. They have been slumping more than we have. And Pistons own them as of late. I wonder what effort to expect.

you're still expecting effort?

you're still expecting effort?

At this point I don't expect anything. This team's effort is like a crap shoot.

mediocricity, mediocricity, mediocricity...
Trying just to adjust.Every new thing is strange at first...learning new words

They are not that good. They have been slumping more than we have. And Pistons own them as of late. I wonder what effort to expect.

Orlando just beat Portland, which is pretty much the hottest team in the league at the moment. (Although Toronto recently beat them too.) I have had a bit of an up surge since Arroyo began starting for them recently.

I have had a bit of an up surge since Arroyo began starting for them recently.


This doesn't surprise me. :)

We've lost 4 games in a row to teams with losing records. We should beat these guys since they're pretty good.
Interesting theory. By this logic, the Pistons are sunk in the East.

you're still expecting effort?
Hey, hope springs eternal in the human breast.

This doesn't surprise me. :)
I get upsurges, but usually from hopeful breasts.

I get upsurges, but usually from hopeful breasts.


I'll drink to that :cheers:

Odd stat. Orlando is 9-8 at home and 16-9 on the road. They are 4-6 over their past 10 games and the Pistons are 5-5. So we still are the "hotter" team even after dropping the 2 weekend games.

Probably all boils down to how Howard responds after losing 8 straight games ( or whatever ) to the Pistons. Hopefully Sheed will decide to show up on the offensive end and actually take some shots from inside the 3-pt line. Going to be tough for him on Howard though.

We should dominate both guard positions.

Orlando just beat Portland, which is pretty much the hottest team in the league at the moment. (Although Toronto recently beat them too.) I have had a bit of an up surge since Arroyo began starting for them recently.

POR is really different team on the road which is expected since they are the youngest. CHI took them to double OT, Miami down to the wire.

If we lose this game, something is definitely wrong. Jameer is out so more Dooling; don't know if that's good or bad. At time he was like our 6th man.

Afflalo should get major minutes in this game.

The key will be stopping Howard, and to a lesser extent, 'Shard. I worry about that, though, given how uninspired the Pistons' frontcourt's play has been lately.

Chat, is, OPEN!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

YAY!

We're in trouble.

Good game on the road. The Pistons need that trade soon.

it wasn't as ugly as chi game but but def was horrible: Orl had pick'n'roll all day.

Orlando executed well down the streatch. In spite of 2 air balls. They got to the line, made all their free throws and did a good job limiting the Pistons to 1 shot.

And 1 shot is what won this one.

All the starters played well, not great but good. Some porous defense there on Turkoglu from Prince in the 4th.

Beyond Maxiel we only got 4 points off the bench in a combined 38 mins. Thats not getting the job done. Is Stucky capable of making a jump shot? I know he must have hit some in College.

I am NOT happy. I don't want to analyze this game since it'd probably just turn into a rant. Pistons need to keep their heads in the game (I'm looking at you, Tay) and our D needs serious improvement. Antonio needs a vacation. He looks gassed.

All the starters played well. Beyond Maxiel we only got 4 points off the bench in a combined 38 mins. Thats not getting the job done. Is Stucky capable of making a jump shot? I know he must have hit some in College.

That's why we are hoping that dumars sees it and can trade ending contracts to a consistent benchplayer ( except of course at PF position)

^
Dice's defense has regressed

And i agree the defense in general is not good at all. We couldn't stop Hedo Turkoglu.

On a side note, the Bulls got blown out by Memphis. It's comical how they own us, and then go out and do that,

Orlando executed well down the streatch. In spite of 2 air balls. They got to the line, made all their free throws and did a good job limiting the Pistons to 1 shot.

And 1 shot is what won this one.

All the starters played well, not great but good. Some porous defense there on Turkoglu from Prince in the 4th.

Beyond Maxiel we only got 4 points off the bench in a combined 38 mins. Thats not getting the job done. Is Stucky capable of making a jump shot? I know he must have hit some in College.

14 of those 38 minutes were given to players that are not scorers. 12 of those 38 were to Arvis; nuff said.

AJ was the only DNP for us tonite. I would be frustrated if I were him. We got 2 points and 1 board from Fabio and Primo tonite.

I gotta believe that AJ could give us more then that if he was given those 8 minutes. :(

Primoz and Amir should together play 15-20 min each game (one or another, depening on opponent).
More Afflalo.
Jarvis should put on clothes (whole defense falls apart, when he is in + terrible shooting) and Herrmann should get a chance finally.

14 of those 38 minutes were given to players that are not scorers. 12 of those 38 were to Arvis; nuff said.

AJ was the only DNP for us tonite. I would be frustrated if I were him. We got 2 points and 1 board from Fabio and Primo tonite.

I gotta believe that AJ could give us more then that if he was given those 8 minutes. :(

It is darn frustrating. I wanna be patient, and I wanna believe people when they say AJ will get his chance...but seeing scrubs like that on the floor getting meaningful PT while Amir racks up DNP's is discouraging.

We are working way to hard to get buckets with the talent we are supposed to have.

We are working way to hard to get buckets with the talent we are supposed to have.

It's a symptom of Flip's offense. This is what happens when all you do is shoot jumpshots.

And i hate hearing that "We're a jump-shooting" team especially from the players. I distinctly remember us having an inside game that was 10x better than the one we have now w/ almost the same personnel.

i didn't really see most of the first half, did see most of the second. can't really disagree with anything posted thus far. but i was pleased to see that cb (and i think a couple of other starters) didn't come back in until around 6 left in the 4th. when he came in he looked more energetic than usual, and he did put some energy into that last 3. and stuckey looked to me more confident toward the end of his last shift, maybe cause he got a little bit longer run than usual.

it wasn't as ugly as chi game but but def was horrible: Orl had pick'n'roll all day.

Chicago stinks unless they play us. Got blown out tonight by Darko and Co.

:hoops:

We are working way to hard to get buckets with the talent we are supposed to have.

Yes, orl got its baskets far more easely and they didn't had second-chance points( 4 or so). Dice needs some rest but nobody is capable to replace him(AJ is not C!). Only trade may help.

14 of those 38 minutes were given to players that are not scorers. 12 of those 38 were to Arvis; nuff said.

AJ was the only DNP for us tonite. I would be frustrated if I were him. We got 2 points and 1 board from Fabio and Primo tonite.

I gotta believe that AJ could give us more then that if he was given those 8 minutes. :(

AJ needs to be traded.

We have ruined his career for long enough. If he been drafted by a running team he would a big time starter by now.

Joe D. messed up in drafting him. It is like putting a square peg in a round hole.

AJ is not a half court player. His shines in a running game. GS, Phoenix and even the Lakers would love him.

:hoops:

if there was a such thing as a good loss, then this was it. the pistons are still struggling but they played hard and the game could've gone either way. they made a few too many mistakes early and couldn't catch up in the end, along with some very generous foul calls on turk driving the lane (and other instances). the refs called the game much differently in the 2nd half, and gave orlando all of the whistles in the 4th.

stuckey looked much better tonight. he ran a few simple pick-and-rolls with max that should've resulted in at least 1 or 2 baskets, was better on defense, and picked good times to drive the lane. maxiell was much better, making his free throws and finally getting back into double figures. we played 11 guys and had 6 in double figures. tay was aggressive on offense and looked much better.

really the only thing that cost us this game was turnovers in the 1st half, and not defending the high pick-and-roll well in the 4th quarter. fault tay all you want, but dyess was just as bad, practically setting screens for orlando himself. when dwight would come out very high, dyess stayed far too close to him and left the basket open, when dwight is absolutely zero threat past the FT line. the lane was unprotected and tay had an extra body to go through, and it didn't work.

i'm not happy with losing, but i'm content with how we played tonight.

Just flipped on the Cavs and Damon Jones is sporting a Dark Elf Mohawk.

We have ruined his career for long enough. If he been drafted by a running team he would a big time starter by now.

Joe D. messed up in drafting him. It is like putting a square peg in a round hole.

c'mon now. the kid is 20, his career hasn't even started, and at his age he should be in college. to say that joe d. messed up the 56th pick in the draft is ridiculous - any pick at that point is a crapshoot and an extreme longshot at best.

if there was a such thing as a good loss, then this was it. the pistons are still struggling but they played hard and the game could've gone either way. they made a few too many mistakes early and couldn't catch up in the end, along with some very generous foul calls on turk driving the lane (and other instances). the refs called the game much differently in the 2nd half, and gave orlando all of the whistles in the 4th.

stuckey looked much better tonight. he ran a few simple pick-and-rolls with max that should've resulted in at least 1 or 2 baskets, was better on defense, and picked good times to drive the lane. maxiell was much better, making his free throws and finally getting back into double figures. we played 11 guys and had 6 in double figures. tay was aggressive on offense and looked much better.

really the only thing that cost us this game was turnovers in the 1st half, and not defending the high pick-and-roll well in the 4th quarter. fault tay all you want, but dyess was just as bad, practically setting screens for orlando himself. when dwight would come out very high, dyess stayed far too close to him and left the basket open, when dwight is absolutely zero threat past the FT line. the lane was unprotected and tay had an extra body to go through, and it didn't work.

i'm not happy with losing, but i'm content with how we played tonight.


Orl is not defensive powerhouse, that's why Stuckey had some chances.

How to measure a team? Very simply. Very good teams win even when they play badly but pistons has to play well for winning. So pistons is a good team, but not very good, at least now.

Orl is not defensive powerhouse, that's why Stuckey had some chances.

How to measure a team? Very simply. Very good teams win even when they play badly but pistons has to play well for winning. So pistons is a good team, but not very good, at least now.

Is Boston the only very good team in the NBA?

Is Boston the only very good team in the NBA?

Sad, but true. they have won many bad games.

c'mon now. the kid is 20, his career hasn't even started, and at his age he should be in college. to say that joe d. messed up the 56th pick in the draft is ridiculous - any pick at that point is a crapshoot and an extreme longshot at best.

From 18 - 21 is when all players really begin to develop their game. This will make his 3rd year with mostly all DNP's.

Look at the all the stars who came straight from high school to the NBA. With the exception of J. O'Neal, the ones that become stars were already major contributors by their 3rd year.

In order to become a major contributor you need on court minutes to get the experience and develop your game. AJ is not getting the minutes he needs to develop his game at the age that it is most important to do so.


We are ruining his career.

:hoops:

Just in case any one has forgotten what we were expecting to see; check out the video.

Bad Boy Summer Camp — Blogging the Detroit Pistons and the Vegas Summer League (http://www.badboysummercamp.com/)

Another coaching loss.


This game was very entertaining, and had an exciting ending. Billups made the long, long 3 to tie it at 100 with just 3 seconds to go. Orlando got a shot for Lewis off glass over Rip to win it as time expired. Darn.
Back to the coaching. The main theme tonight? Don't play Amir. So what do we get instead of Amir? For instance, we get Jarvis Hayes. Amir could be playing his minutes, and giving us another good post up player.

Instead, we get Hayes, and Orlando uses him as a door mat whenever he in the game. Hayes is just hideous on defense at this point. And he made no shots to make up for any of it.


The excuse for not playing Amir, he can't shoot from the outside. But neither can Hayes on any kind of regular basis, so who cares. I would much rather see Amir post up. There is nothing at all wrong with a post up small forward, like we had in Corliss. (But Corliss was slow on D, whereas Amir is quick as anyone on our team.)


Next, to end the first half, we bring in Herrmann and Brezec. Other than the tap in by Brezec, we get nothing from these two. Why are they playing? To avoid playing Amir. And we lose about 7 points to Orlando right there.


Ok, there was some good in this game. Afflalo did get 6 minutes of playing time, and did just fine. He also was used as a defensive sub in late game situations.


Stuckey got a bit more than that. Stuckey'highlights including pairing up with Rip to cause them an 8 second violation, and a nifty drive to the basket that he finished with a hooking layup.


Maxiell was as usual, a beast on the boards. And he made about 5 of 6 free throws to go along with some dunks off his offensive boards. Yeah, you could question why Dyess was in there at the end of the game. Perhaps to make it easy as all get out for Turk to drive to the basket on us perhaps?


Dyess had an ok game on offense. He hit some outside shots, and did some damage inside. He was in foul trouble a lot. His defense was sorely lacking on Howard for the most part. You could tell a major difference in defensive energy from the first Orlando game, to this one for Dyess. In that first game, Dyess was full of energy. Still only the 2nd game of the season. Dyess kept Howard pushed out away from the basket. This time, Dyess did not have a thing to offer. Howard got inside on him over and over. And otherwise, Dyess provided no help out D to make up for the bad job on Howard. And Dyess just could not get back on transition either. Worn out.


Tay, as usual vs. Orlando,had a fine offensive game. He kept either Lewis or Turk in check pretty much too when he was guarding them. Good game in all.


Sheed did a lot of damage in the post. He played pretty good help out D, but he could not do his best as both Maxiell and Dyess were in foul trouble so he had to back off more than he liked. (Oh,another case where the "do not play Amir at any cost" is hurting us.) Sheed had 15 bounds too. We did keep Orlando off the offensive glass quite well.

Our backcourt did fine in the scoring department. But just maybe Rip played a bit too much in this game. Just a 2 minute rest in the first half. (4 minutes in the 2nd half, and all his rest was from Afflalo.)


We missed a lot of free throws. Tired legs. It is the 3rd game in 4 nights. This schedule is brutal.


Anyone notice that goal tending call not called on Howard? Clear as possible it was a goal tend. But it was a make up call and the Pistons knew it and did not get upset. Howard had goal tending called on him a few plays earlier that clearly was not goal tending. There were also a couple of real close ones. Those, well, its just luck of draw, oh well.





We picked up Hayes on the cheap, a no risk thing. But Flip latched onto him as someone who could play ahead of Amir. Hayes is simply being given minutes at this point. It has to change.


Our bigs are door mats way too much, just to avoid playing Amir. Amir must play. Adding a guy like Webber will only hurt our defense even further. (And think about it, if there are 10 minutes for Webber, than there is certainly 10 minutes for Amir.)


Rip is looking rather raggy out there in all. But he did hit that one shot with time expiring for a triple. Nice heads up play. And when he lost some confidence in his shot, he smartly went to the basket. But as nice as that was, I would rather see Rip Hamilton, the rested version.

Just in case any one has forgotten what we were expecting to see; check out the video.

Bad Boy Summer Camp — Blogging the Detroit Pistons and the Vegas Summer League (http://www.badboysummercamp.com/)

He is not a top selling beer. He has a lot more than just great hops.

:hoops:

buddah, that's not even a remotely fair comparison. most of those guys were lottery picks and handed time on terrible teams.

amir was passed up FIFTY-FIVE times before he was picked, and if the pistons hadn't taken him he may not have even been drafted.

look, i want to see amir play as much as the next guy, and i think he should be getting some minutes since we're also developing stuckey and afflalo, but i'm not going to put so much blind faith in his abilities and exaggerate about how his career is being 'ruined.'

buddah, that's not even a remotely fair comparison. most of those guys were lottery picks and handed time on terrible teams.

amir was passed up FIFTY-FIVE times before he was picked, and if the pistons hadn't taken him he may not have even been drafted.

look, i want to see amir play as much as the next guy, and i think he should be getting some minutes since we're also developing stuckey and afflalo, but i'm not going to put so much blind faith in his abilities and exaggerate about how his career is being 'ruined.'

If he had been drafted by a running team, instead of a half court team, he would be starting by now.

Boozer was also taken in the second round. Remember AJ was only 6'9" when we drafted him and he is now close to 7'

We are ruining his career.

:hoops:

IMO; just AJ being hungry and active in a ball game gets him 5 rebounds and a couple of buckets. And that is just from hustling.

and cleveland was 17-65 that year.

we did have a good gameplan in the 1st quarter, getting our first 15 points from our frontcourt. but 10 turnovers in the 1st half isn't going to cut it.

i could live with jarvis if he consistently scored off the bench, to make up for his defense...but when he's not scoring either, the only thing he provides are a couple rebounds here and there.

The main theme tonight? Don't play Amir. So what do we get instead of Amir? For instance, we get Jarvis Hayes. Amir could be playing his minutes, and giving us another good post up player.

Instead, we get Hayes, and Orlando uses him as a door mat whenever he in the game. Hayes is just hideous on defense at this point. And he made no shots to make up for any of it.

The excuse for not playing Amir, he can't shoot from the outside. But neither can Hayes on any kind of regular basis, so who cares. I would much rather see Amir post up. There is nothing at all wrong with a post up small forward, like we had in Corliss. (But Corliss was slow on D, whereas Amir is quick as anyone on our team.)

I don't understand Flip at all. It's like nobody plays based on anything of real basketball value. He picks a favorite, and sticks with them no matter what. Either he's still in high-school, or he really doesn't know what kind of talent/skills win basketball games.

Rip is looking rather raggy out there in all. But he did hit that one shot with time expiring for a triple. Nice heads up play. And when he lost some confidence in his shot, he smartly went to the basket. But as nice as that was, I would rather see Rip Hamilton, the rested version.

He's been playing too much ever since that article came out about him being "uncomfortable" with less minutes.

AJ can shoot and make the 15 foot jump shot. So him not being to make jump shots is just as much baloney as AJ no being able to get defensive rebounds.

:hoops:

buddah, that's not even a remotely fair comparison. most of those guys were lottery picks and handed time on terrible teams.

amir was passed up FIFTY-FIVE times before he was picked, and if the pistons hadn't taken him he may not have even been drafted.

look, i want to see amir play as much as the next guy, and i think he should be getting some minutes since we're also developing stuckey and afflalo, but i'm not going to put so much blind faith in his abilities and exaggerate about how his career is being 'ruined.'

Amir was passed up by all those teams due to his academic record. It has been said that otherwise, he was a lottery pick type prospect. Further, a lot of people have said that due to Amir's showing in the D-League last season, Amir would be a lottery pick in this past draft if he was in the draft.

AJ can shoot and make the 15 foot jump shot. So him not being to make jump shots is just as much baloney as AJ no being able to get defensive rebounds.

:hoops:

Absolutely. Last I seen him play, in a summer league, getting lots of shots, it was clear that he had a deadly jumper out to 15 feet. They say he has extended his range since then. I do get to seen him shoot a lot before games. And he does show range. But thats in practice. Sure would like to see him shooting in games some day, but by far, I am more interested seeing him getting the ball in the post.

and cleveland was 17-65 that year.

we did have a good gameplan in the 1st quarter, getting our first 15 points from our frontcourt. but 10 turnovers in the 1st half isn't going to cut it.

i could live with jarvis if he consistently scored off the bench, to make up for his defense...but when he's not scoring either, the only thing he provides are a couple rebounds here and there.

Tonight, no rebounds either. He had one assist to keep him from flatlining it on stats tonight for his 12 minutes.

Man, we are just getting outplayed and we seemed to play hard. Scary. Our offense does not generate a lot of good looks despite the 100 points. We are disjointed--even the starters get that way. Orlando out executed us. Orlando. Wow!

Our defense used to bail us out. But we were pretty bad defensively lately. We are outmanned at the center position and that effects the overall defensive effort.

The bench is not good. Sorry. No two ways to say it. The stats show. I would give Stuckey a little more free rein. I loved that drive to the hoop. Don't like the idea of making Stuckey into Chauncey.

Maxiel needs to slow down. He absolutely can hit those shots. Hayes is obviously out of sync.

Absolutely. Last I seen him play, in a summer league, getting lots of shots, it was clear that he had a deadly jumper out to 15 feet. They say he has extended his range since then. I do get to seen him shoot a lot before games. And he does show range. But thats in practice. Sure would like to see him shooting in games some day, but by far, I am more interested seeing him getting the ball in the post.

He did win the Pistons recent half court shooting contest. Seriously


Amir Johnson; half-court specialist (http://pistonsnationblog.com/2008/01/04/amir-johnson-half-court-specialist/) Posted by pistonsnation
01/4/08 1:47 PM
Via Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080104/SPORTS0102/801040391/1127/rss13):Amir Johnson was the big winner in the team’s spirited postpractice half-court shootout. The contest started with Rodney Stuckey , Arron Afflalo and Johnson hitting consecutive half-court bombs. Jason Maxiell , the only player to shoot a jump shot from that distance, made one. Tayshaun Prince , Antonio McDyess and Hamilton each made one. Walter Herrmann made two. Johnson was the last man standing.
PistonsNationBlog.com » Blog Archive » Amir Johnson; half-court specialist (http://pistonsnationblog.com/2008/01/04/amir-johnson-half-court-specialist/)

:hoops:

look, i want to see amir play as much as the next guy, and i think he should be getting some minutes since we're also developing stuckey and afflalo, but i'm not going to put so much blind faith in his abilities and exaggerate about how his career is being 'ruined.'They're paying him $4M a year to ride the pine. Ironically, the same amount they gave Darko before sending him off to his dismal destiny.

I dunno about anyone else, but I seriously believe Joe & Flip are not on the same page. And FWIW I'm becoming as skeptical of Joe as I am of Flip.

Hunter or Flip Murray could have just as easily chipped in those extra points that we needed. Perhaps a key steal by Hunter in transition at just the right time could have turned the game around.

I am all for player development but these guys have to start hitting some shots. They are guards, guards are supposed to be able to shoot - thats what they do.

This would not have been a good game for Amir. It was too close and he has not played in a while. Flip should have started bringing him in during that winning streak. Throw him out there for 6 mins when we are up by 15 in the 3rd, see what he can do.

So should I watch it on my DVR or just pass on it?? I mean I did the movie marathon and saw Cloverfield, Mad Money, and 27 Dresses....yeah I took my wife...as I can't make her watch crappy Pistons games with me all the time and not take her out to the movies.

Looks like all of the teams that were supposed to win today won with the exception of the Mavs, Warriors and Pistons. So tell me the bottom line..did our players get out played or was Flip out coached again..:confused:.if so he is very close to winning NBA Choke of the Month for January... Joe please help:pray:

So should I watch it on my DVR or just pass on it?? I mean I did the movie marathon and saw Cloverfield, Mad Money, and 27 Dresses....yeah I took my wife...as I can't make her watch crappy Pistons games with me all the time and not take her out to the movies.

Looks like all of the teams that were supposed to win today won with the exception of the Mavs, Warriors and Pistons. So tell me the bottom line..did our players get out played or was Flip out coached again..:confused:.if so he is very close to winning NBA Choke of the Month for January... Joe please help:pray:

Orlando showed up to play more than us chocking. It was an entertaining game to watch. Knowing how it will end though, I don't know. I have a hard time watching games if I already know they lost.

Random thoughts after watching the game...

- I hate the fact that Sheed only shows up for about 8 minutes a game.
- Why in the hell is Primoz Brezec still on this team? Doesn't Joe know that if he keeps a bad player on the roster, Flip is bound to play them? No way in hell should he be out there in any situation over AJ (whose days in detroit are numbered). Why can't Joe force Amir over Brezec/Herrmann like he did for Stuckey?
- Jarvis Hayes.... ugh. If you're gonna brick shots, at least only take good shots. Nothing is worse than forcing it time and time again when you're not hitting. Does Flip encourage that crap? And defensively, he is a nightmare. The "in-your-face" style of D only works when you can actually react when the offensive player makes his move.
- It was nice to see a glimpse of the real Rodney Stuckey. For 2 or 3 possessions in the 4th, Flip actually allowed him to attack off pick-and-rolls. He looked damn good doing it. Getting into the lane with ease for a wide-open layup, and getting Max another wide-open layup (which he missed). Doesn't Flip see that every time he goes to isolation basketball with the bench in the game they fall apart? Most coaches would have picked up on this after 2 stints, but Flip just insists on pounding that flex offense into them. His "system" is bigger than his players apparently.
- Tayshaun was good, but it was all jumpers.
- Max was a beast, and should have been in the game throughout the 4th. Dice wasn't playing a whole lot of defense, and we don't need another guy out there building a wall of bricks from 20 feet.

Orlando showed up to play more than us chocking. It was an entertaining game to watch. Knowing how it will end though, I don't know. I have a hard time watching games if I already know they lost.
I decided to watch the game and will add my late notes for the early morning folks to comment on.

First some interesting meaningless stats:
Only 14 assists for the Pistons
Magic Bench 27-Pistons 15
Magic control the points in the paint 42-28. (including 20 in the paint in the first qtr when the Pistons were still getting off the bus. Pistons scored only 4 points in the paint in the all important 4th qtr as we saw wide open long range jumpers go long and short.

But the lingering question for 2008 is WTF happen to our interior D??? OK sorry for that question..we have been asking that question ever since Big Ben hopped on I-94 west.
http://t1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1487976734192&id=8171fc4e1b1000065a13f2de4227af74
Turkolu penetrated at will believing no Piston could stop him and they obliged by providing him an open lane to the hoop. With 26 pts and 8 dimes, he reminded me of how Pierce was able to the same two weeks ago when he penetrated and either scored or dropped it off to Big Baby. Once again no defense against the pick and roll.

Pistons blow another second qtr lead getting outscored by 10, and hitting only 6-20 shots. In fact after Billups sat, the Pistons managed to hit only one out of their next nine shots. Like Magic announcer and former NBA coach Matt Goukas said at least three times "Flip was crazy for leaving Hayes and Stuckey out there in the second qtr for so long with both Tay and Billups on the pine for almost 8 mins." (Joe was seen later asking for his BB e-mail address in case he needs to offer him a job this summer.):stirthepot:

Now we all want CB to get some rest, but some how or another our offense seems to go in the old Hunter mode with Stuckey out there. Those early season injuries are turning into beottch in terms of developing AJ and Stuckey. How many games dating back and including the Boston game on 1/5, have the Pistons blown double digit leads in the first qtr or beginning of the second?

I am thinking somebody, either Rip, Tay or even no d Dice need to come off the bench to anchor the second qtr with the youngsters at least for a spell while we get this drop off cured and get Hayes, Stuckey and Max in a cohesive mode. AA and AJ need to get some minutes too just so their development/growth is not stunted.

I decided to watch the game and will add my late notes for the early morning folks to comment on.

First some interesting meaningless stats:
Only 14 assists for the Pistons
Magic Bench 27-Pistons 15
Magic control the points in the paint 42-28. (including 20 in the paint in the first qtr when the Pistons were still getting off the bus. Pistons scored only 4 points in the paint in the all important 4th qtr as we saw wide open long range jumpers go long and short.

But the lingering question for 2008 is WTF happen to our interior D??? OK sorry for that question..we have been asking that question ever since Big Ben hopped on I-94 west.
http://t1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1487976734192&id=8171fc4e1b1000065a13f2de4227af74
Turkolu penetrated at will believing no Piston could stop him and they obliged by providing him an open lane to the hoop. With 26 pts and 8 dimes, he reminded me of how Pierce was able to the same two weeks ago when he penetrated and either scored or dropped it off to Big Baby. Once again no defense against the pick and roll.

Pistons blow another second qtr lead getting outscored by 10, and hitting only 6-20 shots. In fact after Billups sat, the Pistons managed to hit only one out of their next nine shots. Like Magic announcer and former NBA coach Matt Goukas said at least three times "Flip was crazy for leaving Hayes and Stuckey out there in the second qtr for so long with both Tay and Billups on the pine for almost 8 mins." (Joe was seen later asking for his BB e-mail address in case he needs to offer him a job this summer.):stirthepot:

Now we all want CB to get some rest, but some how or another our offense seems to go in the old Hunter mode with Stuckey out there. Those early season injuries are turning into beottch in terms of developing AJ and Stuckey. How many games dating back and including the Boston game on 1/5, have the Pistons blown double digit leads in the first qtr or beginning of the second?

I am thinking somebody, either Rip, Tay or even no d Dice need to come off the bench to anchor the second qtr with the youngsters at least for a spell while we get this drop off cured and get Hayes, Stuckey and Max in a cohesive mode. AA and AJ need to get some minutes too just so their development/growth is not stunted.

Everyone has an opinion. Some just flat out wrong like this one by Goukas. Stuckey should have played more than he did. Hayes was the problem.

And Stuckey should be getting 20 minutes a game, not 8 like last game. Remember that rythm he is trying to find? Saunders won't let him find it. Goukas does not understand what is going on. And far worse for us, neither does Flip.

ok i'm out of the country at the moment so seeing no game action just get to follow along online..... talk about wanting to throw a laptop thru the window these days....

the question i have for you watching everybody keeps saying max is playing so well, but his plus minus seems to be the worst on the team these days. So is it his bad luck to be on the floor at the wrong times or are folks not watching him as closely as they are when they are ripping dyss? (who seems to always be in the plus)

FP22 i agree with a lot of your post, except the part about sheed only showing up for 8 minutes a game...the guy dropped 15/15 with 5 steals and defended howard extremely well in the 4th quarter.

i don't think max had a *great* game but he did play well, and i also think dice did better on howard than people (don't) give him credit for...it was his pick-and-roll defense that was bad.

ok i'm out of the country at the moment so seeing no game action just get to follow along online..... talk about wanting to throw a laptop thru the window these days....

the question i have for you watching everybody keeps saying max is playing so well, but his plus minus seems to be the worst on the team these days. So is it his bad luck to be on the floor at the wrong times or are folks not watching him as closely as they are when they are ripping dyss? (who seems to always be in the plus)

Stuckey, Hayes, and Bresec are killing him.

This was another game where are starters beat theirs, and our bench lost.


If we would have managed to win that game, then we would have been really pumped about the following:

Sheed with a season high in rebounds... and against DHo! And 5 steals to go with it.
Chauncey and Rip draining super clutch shots. Good to see they still got it.
Tay broke out of his shooting slump.
Maxiell made all his dunks and was rebounding well.

"I am going to play. Joe Dumars tells me constantly, 'This is your year. There will be no DNPs this year.' " -Amir Johnson
TaS, is this quote for real? I just noticed it.

TaS, is this quote for real? I just noticed it.

It's for real bro.

HOOPSWORLD | NBA News, Rumors and Information (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=5229)

I noticed that Cleveland is only 6 games back. If the Cavs come back to take the division, Flip will definitely be done as Pistons coach, I believe, and possibly before the playoffs. If the Pistons go into the playoffs seeded behind the Cavs, I would much rather have somebody else coaching this team for the postseason.

I don't think Flipper is a bad coach; he's just not right for the Pistons.

I noticed that Cleveland is only 6 games back. If the Cavs come back to take the division, Flip will definitely be done as Pistons coach, I believe, and possibly before the playoffs. If the Pistons go into the playoffs seeded behind the Cavs, I would much rather have somebody else coaching this team for the postseason.

I don't think Flipper is a bad coach; he's just not right for the Pistons.

Losing the division is something that Flip will not allow to happen. He'd play the starters 48 mpg first.

6 games is a lot to make up against a healthy Pistons team. No matter what Flip does, that will not happen.

It's for real bro.

HOOPSWORLD | NBA News, Rumors and Information (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=5229)

This needs to be sent to Amir, his agent or his people, printed off and then they go in to Dumars office and challenge him on it. I know he was injured back in October and that may have contributed to a few DNP's but that was then and this is now and with the team struggling, you need to tap all of your resources to see what can be done to turn it around. Why continue to play others who may be struggling. This is the time to experiment while you still have the second best record in the league. Activate Samb and put Fabio or Hermman in street clothes...and then put him and AJ in the line up!!! Talk about confusing the opposition with long arms and blocks!!

6 games is a lot to make up against a healthy Pistons team. No matter what Flip does, that will not happen.

The Cavs have trimmed 4.5 games off in the last 3 weeks...and we still have 12+ weeks to play

Amir was passed up by all those teams due to his academic record. It has been said that otherwise, he was a lottery pick type prospect. Further, a lot of people have said that due to Amir's showing in the D-League last season, Amir would be a lottery pick in this past draft if he was in the draft.


Is it possible that Flip isn't playing Amir because of his poor academic record?

I know last year the theory for not playing Amir was that we were hiding him.

What is it this year?

The Cavs have trimmed 4.5 games off in the last 3 weeks...and we still have 12+ weeks to play

This was the tough part of our schedule though. And Flip is "developing" the bench.

Look how easy our April schedule is:
@Min
NJ
@Mia
NY
@Philly
Wash
Tor
Min
@Cle

No back to backs.

Can't blame this loss on Tay.
How about CB with 3 extra steps before draining that tre.

How about CB with 3 extra steps before draining that tre.

That was cold-blooded. Van Gundy said he knew it was going in before he shot it.

I thought the bench / starter mix wasn't too bad for this game. There was only one very short stint in the fourth when there weren't at least two starters on the floor with the bench. All five starters were in for four stints at +6, -2, +9, and -1. Unfortunately the mix of starters and bench players didn't work as well as Orlando went on 9-0, 9-1, and 6-1 runs with bench players in the game.

Still, the Pistons generally don't win when they turn the ball over - ten in the first half (only one in the second, but by then they were down). And they hardly ever win with only 40% of made baskets on assists (average 62%). The ball didn't move and neither did the players, and they become easier to defend when that happens.

Still, for all that, without a rim to backboard to hoop last second shot it would have gone into overtime and I like the Pistons chances in that scenario. One more hoop anywhere along the way and things are a lot rosier today.

That was cold-blooded. Van Gundy said he knew it was going in before he shot it.
Qoute DBA
-
Where does he get the sack to cheat like that?

It's for real bro.

HOOPSWORLD | NBA News, Rumors and Information (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=5229)
Okay, that is from before he hurt himself. Still....

Okay, that is from before he hurt himself. Still....

Here's another link for that quote: SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NBA Basketball stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from NBA Basketball columnists (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=272225)

This holds the entire interview, as well as some tidbits from Joe D himself.

This was the tough part of our schedule though. And Flip is "developing" the bench.

Look how easy our April schedule is:
@Min
NJ
@Mia
NY
@Philly
Wash
Tor
Min
@Cle

No back to backs.
I am with you on this one TaS as these do look like easy wins on paper, but so did these the past 9 days:
1/12 3 point lucky win at sub 500 team Bobcats
1/13 24 point loss to sub 500 team Knicks
1/15 14 point win over Raptors
1/18 7 point loss to sub 500 team Kings
1/19 16 point loss to sub 500 team Bulls
1/21 2 point loss to our perrenial whipping boys Magic

I know there were a couple of back to backs here, but considering who we were playing our record should have been at least 6-0 or 5-1, instead of 2-4.

I am just hoping that when that "easy" schedule rolls around in April, our starters aren't already burned out ala the spring of 2006 and 2007 and our youngsters aren't still trying to find their game......:stirthepot:http://t1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1498934215328&id=2a4323c1717d700c37846ed2cf8c5b55

Tayshaun is the most overglorified player on the Pistons. He's a fraud. Nice staying on your man; I guess that's too much to ask for 3.9 seconds. Instead he was mismatched on Rip.

Pansy.

Pansy.

Free Ron Artest.

Prince and Rip had 41 points and Rashard and Turk had 42. We were hurting them too.

Overall, we actually had more FG's than Orlando. Just got beat on the FT line.

Okay, that is from before he hurt himself. Still....

Did the ankle injury actually set him back that much? Or, did the plan change since last summer?

Dumars should have said, "Amir, just sign this contract please. I promise that there will be no DNP's for you this year, provided that you don't sprain an ankle, and that you have a complete understanding of what Flip is trying to do here, and that you verbally communicate on the court with your teammates, and that you show consistency, and that you maintain the highest rebounding and blocked shot rate on the team without fouling."

Then nobody here would be questioning the mixed signals that are coming from the orgainization. The terms would have been laid out, and Amir would clearly not be holding up his end of the bargain.

Dumars should have said, "Amir, just sign this contract please. I promise that there will be no DNP's for you this year, provided that you don't sprain an ankle, and that you have a complete understanding of what Flip is trying to do here, and that you verbally communicate on the court with your teammates, and that you show consistency, and that you maintain the highest rebounding and blocked shot rate on the team without fouling."

Then nobody here would be questioning the mixed signals that are coming from the orgainization. The terms would have been laid out, and Amir would clearly not be holding up his end of the bargain.

:pound:

Awesome

Tay actually commented on the pick -n- roll defense. Said something like they were playing it wrong, or the coaching staff waiting to long to change it and let Turkeyglue kill us.

I love these backhanded comments against the coach coming from all our players lately.

Prince and Rip had 41 points and Rashard and Turk had 42. We were hurting them too.

Overall, we actually had more FG's than Orlando. Just got beat on the FT line.


They actually did better percentage wise last night 23/30 (77%) than they did the prior 2 game/osses where against the Bulls they missed 10 FT's shooting 19/29, and then again vs the Kings on Friday where they were 19/30.

If you are getting 30 FTA you probably should win those games, but of course the right folks have to get to the line and shoot. :sssh:

Tay actually commented on the pick -n- roll defense. Said something like they were playing it wrong, or the coaching staff waiting to long to change it and let Turkeyglue kill us.

I love these backhanded comments against the coach coming from all our players lately.


Matt Goukas made similar comments last night indicating that the turkmiester was killing us on the pick and roll and Dice was hanging Tay out to dry trying to defend Howard and stop the Turkyglue penetration.

Gouky knew all our all faults and development issues...he must be a member or frequent visitor to this forum. If Flip reads it, he totally ignores our suggestions

Gouky knew all our all faults and development issues...he must be a member or frequent visitor to this forum. If Flip reads it, he totally ignores our suggestions

To be fair, some of them are anatomically impossible.

Unless you're the snake lady.

To be fair, some of them are anatomically impossible.


Like the suggestions that require balls to implement?

Like the suggestions that require balls to implement?

:pound:

That could be one example.

Tay actually commented on the pick -n- roll defense. Said something like they were playing it wrong, or the coaching staff waiting to long to change it and let Turkeyglue kill us.

I love these backhanded comments against the coach coming from all our players lately.

I've noticed that too. First Rip, then Chauncey, now Tay. I know Sheed had to have said something in private as well.

So, are we saying that the players don't think this coach is good enough and they are starting to tune him out?

So, are we saying that the players don't think this coach is good enough and they are starting to tune him out?

Looks like it to me.

Who is the "snake lady"?????