At Indiana Jan 29 7PM

tv: FSN

Jermain O'Neal will be out for at least another week at the time of this writing and the Pacers have been struggling. They have lost the last 3 and only have won 3 of their last 10.

Just bought the League Pass and looking forward to this one. Checked out the Hornets beating the Spurs (sweet!) and some other games from now on.:MusicBigGrin:

We will expect detailed 6 page reports on every game you watch Oz. ;)

Looking forward to beating up on the Hoosiers. Should be a good game for us to play the kids and find our legs again.

Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Pistons: Notebook

Pacers present unusual obstacle for Pistons

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- Different night, completely different challenge for the Pistons.
After a long run of playing mostly traditional half-court-oriented teams, the Pistons will get to test their powers tonight against the dreaded small-ball style of Indiana.


"Without Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana has changed their style," coach Flip Saunders said Monday. "They put five perimeter players out there and play very open. They play like Phoenix and Golden State, just very open."



Once upon a time, the Pistons struggled mightily with small-ball teams. They never seemed sure how to attack them -- punish them with their size or downsize their own lineup

"We have to make them defend us in the half-court," Saunders said. "We still like to stay big, but with Amir (Johnson) emerging as our fourth big man, he's a guy who maybe can play against those guys because of his quickness and athleticism."


Saunders said he would resort to a smaller lineup only if necessary and said that going to a zone might be the preferable option to downsizing.
Between the last game and this statement, it sounds like Flipper might be back tracking on playing AJ. We will just have to wait and see.

Pacers present unusual obstacle for Pistons (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/SPORTS0102/801290337/1127)

:hoops:

Between the last game and this statement, it sounds like Flipper might be back tracking on playing AJ. We will just have to wait and see.



After reading Saunders quote, it sounded more like he was actually endorsing Amir, not back-tracking.

"...he's a guy who maybe can play against these guys because (they have a key deficiency that allows us to play inferior players)."

I can see how it could be read like that.


The thing is, it is clear to me that Flip just sort of rambles when he's being interviewed. He overpromises, underpromises, flip-flops, etc. I'm not really relying on anything besides his actions.

yeah it sounded more like saunders was planning to use AJ because he would play well against that style, not the other way around.

yeah it sounded more like saunders was planning to use AJ because he would play well against that style, not the other way around.

But he made it sound like this was a special case and that is why AJ will play.

What if the Pistons bucked the system and got 2 coaches? Dumars could activate whichever coach would be most effective against each team. Tonight, he could put Flip in charge, because we are playing a team that we should beat. Maybe next game, Laimbeer could be activated for a change of pace. If a coach isn't doing well, he could be benched until he shows that he is able to communicate and earns his time back by consistently coaching well in practice.

I can't believe it hasn't been tried before.

But he made it sound like this was a special case and that is why AJ will play.

What if the Pistons bucked the system and got 2 coaches? Dumars could activate whichever coach would be most effective against each team. Tonight, he could put Flip in charge, because we are playing a team that we should beat. Maybe next game, Laimbeer could be activated for a change of pace. If a coach isn't doing well, he could be benched until he shows that he is able to communicate and earns his time back by consistently coaching well in practice.

I can't believe it hasn't been tried before.

The players couldn't handle it, to say nothing about the coaches.

:hoops:

The players couldn't handle it, to say nothing about the coaches.

:hoops:

Closest to similar is situation where GM and coach try the both to do coaching. It has happened and always has ended with total mess. One Knicks is more than enough.

Chat is open early. Yipee!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Defence was lazy and that forced even bench play well.

Nice game by AJ tonight

+8 best on the Pistons
6 and 6 with 2 assists and 1 block

Murphy took him to school a bit. But that will change in the future.

:hoops:

Game of the year!!! That certain something was missing tonight. Instead of killing themselves chasing what probably wasn't there, Flip dusted out what looked like a rotation and got the win. Why it took so long is anyone's guess? Get Rip down and things will be good.

When the NBA's many critics decry the thug image of the L, do you think they got the Tay v. 'Lil Dun match-up in mind?

Stuckey did some things when needed.

Is there a worse duo finishing on the break than Rip and CB? Granger must be icing his hand about now?

That Deiner kid ain't bad........

Nice game by AJ tonight

+8 best on the Pistons
6 and 6 with 2 assists and 1 block

Murphy took him to school a bit. But that will change in the future.

:hoops:

He needs to work on moving his feet on D. He is real bad there. PT will help him there.

The bench won this game for the Pistons as the starters came out lackdaiscal in the first qtr. However Sheed led the 16-4 comeback run to close out the the second qtr. It was good to see that Flip left Amir out there during this close out run to get some burn with the starters. Overall AJ was a +8 and got his usual block and also got six boards and six points.

The bench scored 31 points and we can only hope that Hayes with the 13pts has come out of his slump and Stuckey has gained his composure as he looked decent out there too.

The starters almost blew this one down the stretch as CB had 2 turns and Sheed who was so brilliant playing down low decided to go outside down the stretch and missed 2 of 3 three ball attempts. He led the Pistons with 24 points and was the playa of the night...

Both Billips and Hamilton seem to take the night off and you barely heard Rip's name called all night despite his 15 points.

Believe it or not the Pistons outscored the pacers in the paint 48-36. However the 104 pts given up were largely due to the 12 three pointers that the Pacers hit. We also missed 9 Fts' as our 2 best ft shooters RIp and CB only went to the line 5 times and hit all 5.


Good game, good win for the Pistons...Now 20-0 when scoring over 100 pts..and 20-1 when scoring 100 points or more.. (one loss when the scored only 100 pts to the Magic last Monday. )

He needs to work on moving his feet on D. He is real bad there. PT will help him there.

No he's not.

:hoops:

Amir/AA had the highest +/-.

Starters were lazy. Rasheed's aversion to small ball has made him go into the post when we play these type of teams. He seems to enjoy proving his point. :)

We scored more than 15 in the 4th quarter!

The bench definitely won this game. Only negative is Flip is going to have to learn that the starters don't always have to finish the game. Amir should have finished this game.

Oh and Jarvis Hayes continues to give points to the opposition. Luckily, tonight he actually scored some points. Afflalo needs to play more 3.

Post game interview on Pistons Live C-Bill said that AJ was great. He said it three times.

:hoops:

Great game. I don't mean the win. Great coaching. Great preparation for the playoffs. The use of a rotation that will win in the playoffs. The use of a rotation that will get stronger and stronger game by game as we continue to use it.


Rip played the most minutes. He did hit some hoops for us, but he also shot the worst for us in the game. Just maybe letting Afflalo play a bit more, who did a fine job with the minutes he did get, would have helped Rip have a bit better of a game. Other than that, can't complain about a thing really.


Dyess got plenty of rebounds, hit an outside shot or two, and worked the post enough to be helpful. Sheed did major damage in the post tonight. But I don't totally agree with Cureton's comments about how Sheed is so much more effective in the post vs. shooting outside. Remember, this is Indiana without O'Neal, without any decent post defense. Of course I want to see Sheed go inside more, but it won't always be this easy. Sheed added 10 rebounds to go with his 24 points. Not to mention some seriously good D, especially in crunch time. His block of Diener on a corner shot helped seal the deal. Notice all that energy late by Sheed? He did not get over played. What a difference having that 4th big in the rotation makes.


Tay hit a shot late. Another guy who did not get overplayed. Hayes played plenty in this one, as he got hot on his shooting. His defense did hurt us some, but he more than made up for it with that shooting. Tay for the game had 17 points, and played good solid D.


Billups had a good all around game. And he got plenty of rest from Stuckey. Stuckey did some scoring himself in this one, and played good D. His highlight was a made pullup jumper. He missed 3 of 4 at the line, something not like him. (He would have had a double digit scoring game if he had made all his freethrows.)Stuck also scored on a cut to the basket, and on one drive to the basket.


Maxiell did not really have a bad game. He just did not play that much. He did manage some pretty good work on the baords, drew some fouls, and did a bit of scoring. And good D.


Amir was pretty sensational. A couple of offensive rebound putbacks, one a slam. (or were there 3 of them-can't recall but I know he got a 3rd bucket in there somewhere.) Amir had plenty of rebounds for his time on the floor, and also fought for it a couple of times resulting in a teammate getting the bound. Speaking of rebounding, I must mention that Stuckey looks good going up for bounds too.


Afflalo did not score, only played about 10 minutes. But he was helping. Good D mostly. Indiana had jumped out to a lead in the first quarter and Afflalo was one of our subs who came in and started cooling Indiana down a bit. (JMAX being the other.)


I must say, Indiana did shoot very well in this game. Thats one thing about letting your team hoist at will, they will get sharper on their shooting. But in the end, our going inside often, and tightening the screws a bit on the perimeter defense, did Indiana in.


Indiana was killing us on the boards to start this game. JMAX and then later Amir did a lot to stop that. When we finally caught all the way back up, and even took a lead, Amir and Sheed were up front. Like someone mentioned, Amir was the highest plus guy in the game for us. And it was his play that was responsible for a lot of it. (Although the announcers gave pretty much all the credit to Sheed's offense, hey, its was Amir's defense just as much that was hurting Indiana. We went on a 12-2 stretch there.)


This is the right way to play. The other team was ahead of us. Coach did the right thing, played his bench extensively, and in the end our starters had the gas needed to win the game. If this continues, no team will stop us this year. (Yes, I mean in the playoffs, when it counts. We will win a championship this year if we stay on this course.)


GO PISTONS!!!!!

Game of the year!!! That certain something was missing tonight. Instead of killing themselves chasing what probably wasn't there, Flip dusted out what looked like a rotation and got the win. Why it took so long is anyone's guess? Get Rip down and things will be good.

When the NBA's many critics decry the thug image of the L, do you think they got the Tay v. 'Lil Dun match-up in mind?

Stuckey did some things when needed.

Is there a worse duo finishing on the break than Rip and CB? Granger must be icing his hand about now?

That Deiner kid ain't bad........

Just to let you know, I always read other's comments before posting my report. Your comment, about an actual rotation being used tonight, was easily the most to the point post out there.

Not the best game to watch. This game, particularly that lethargic first quarter was just boring. Nice finish though, particularly Sheed's block/Tay's dagger.

The bench was terrific. Amir was active as always, looking better each game. Afflalo was solid, and Rodney seems to finally be seeing the light at the end of the struggle tunnel. I hope he continues to improve. This was a game we likely would've lost in the past. Now, with our bench picking up the slack, that's no longer the case.

Sheed was great. Chaunce was ok, Dice as well. Rip didn't shoot it well, but his D was there. Tay had his best game in a while. Overall, a decent win over a club that was obviously desperate to recover from a loss to the woeful Miami Heat.

Edited to add: Jarvis got his J back finally. I hope this means he's out of his slump. His D needs work though.

Our rookies will tend to play better playing a running more open team like the Pacers then they will against a half court team like the Spurs.

Stucky got to the hoop several times tonight, but it is easier for him to do playing a team of midgets.

:hoops:

Next game LAL will obviously be faster paced, so our rooks get a chance. And it will be interesting to compare both teams youth.

OK, I gotta stick up for Jarvis Hayes. Folk mentioned his D in this game. His D was no worse than any other perimeter player sans AA. Dunleavy lit up everybody tonight as did Deiner.

Great Game. As has been mentioned, this was a game we can BUILD from. Great 10 man rotation to keep players fresh, and all ten had solid contributions. Although I was cursing Flip for playing Dice for 18 straight mins in the first half.

Next game LAL will obviously be faster paced, so our rooks get a chance. And it will be interesting to compare both teams youth.

Walton went out tonight with a hip pointer. Unknown whether he will be available to them Thursday.

They are not playing very well with all their injuries.

:hoops:

OK, I gotta stick up for Jarvis Hayes. Folk mentioned his D in this game. His D was no worse than any other perimeter player sans AA. Dunleavy lit up everybody tonight as did Deiner.

Great Game. As has been mentioned, this was a game we can BUILD from. Great 10 man rotation to keep players fresh, and all ten had solid contributions. Although I was cursing Flip for playing Dice for 18 straight mins in the first half.

Hayes gave a pretty decent interview after the game.
:hoops:

Great game. I don't mean the win. Great coaching. Great preparation for the playoffs. The use of a rotation that will win in the playoffs. The use of a rotation that will get stronger and stronger game by game as we continue to use it.

It is my understanding that this forum is password protected. Would you please restart and sign in please. There is another individual posing as Lee356 and Roscoe please watch the sign-in process for hacking. I am beginning to worry about the pro-active validity direction of this membership base.

OK, I gotta stick up for Jarvis Hayes. Folk mentioned his D in this game. His D was no worse than any other perimeter player sans AA. Dunleavy lit up everybody tonight as did Deiner.

Great Game. As has been mentioned, this was a game we can BUILD from. Great 10 man rotation to keep players fresh, and all ten had solid contributions. Although I was cursing Flip for playing Dice for 18 straight mins in the first half.

Yeah, by far, the worse defense occurred in the first quarter, where we could not defend at all, nor even get a rebound until we started subbing in JMAX and Afflalo. Hayes did not enter the game until well into the 2nd quarter, as Tay stayed in for the first 15 minutes of the game or so. But I was trying to be positive about tonights game, and did not want to mention the fact that, yeah, although I liked the fact the subs came in when they did, for sure, I would not start this particular group of starters. (Way too many times they start off not being able to do these same two things, defend, or get a defensive board.) I did mention the problems, but I did not put a big highlighter on that. I am hoping that as Amir emerges into the rotation, he will eventually take the far too high minutes away from Dyess, and that then, Dyess can start playing some defense, as rested legs should make a difference.

Our rookies will tend to play better playing a running more open team like the Pacers then they will against a half court team like the Spurs.

Stucky got to the hoop several times tonight, but it is easier for him to do playing a team of midgets.

:hoops:

This to me sounds kind of dismissive of some very good play by our younger players. Lets put it this way, we lose this one without them. (Particularly Amir and Afflalo who played some exceptional defense)

Walton went out tonight with a hip pointer. Unknown whether he will be available to them Thursday.

They are not playing very well with all their injuries.

:hoops:
No Bynum hurts them. Bynum is rounding into a very good player. Another guy who is out is Ariza. In my opinion, that hurts them as much as anything. Walton on the other hand, I see as just another role player for them who can be replaced easily enough with little drop off. (I have been watching Laker games a lot since they picked up Ariza, a player I liked to see play for Orlando the past two seasons.)

OK, I gotta stick up for Jarvis Hayes. Folk mentioned his D in this game. His D was no worse than any other perimeter player sans AA.

Hayes is damn near the best athlete on the team. Defense for him is a side-line which can change under the right circumstance (both Dumars and Hunter were shooters first and then got serious).

More playing time will even out his excessive (mind's eye) offensive game and the assistant coaches need to stress that he can even out tension from some heavy defense. He needs to even out his game and he will lessen his hyper activity which usually ends in excessive fouls. In short, he needs to play off the right distance and get lower on defense. Ironically, by doing this slight degree of change, will add to his offensive style where his body becomes the offensive shield for his deadly jump shot...this opens up more slashing/paint maneuvering.

For gifted athletes, it's all a matter of expanding (most of the time forcefully) outside of your comfort zone. Coaches are paid (in a surreptitious matter) to guide players in these directions.

That was one of the best games of the year for the following reasons:

1) Sheed had his best game in my opinion. He got going on the block and rebounded well. 3 dunks for Sheed! It looked like 2004 all over again. He also his a big 3 toward the end. Oh yeah, and he has 3 blocks-- 1 was spectacular and 1 was blocking Diener's final 3-point attempts toward the end, which was huge.

2) Flip was creative with his rotation. He surrounded Stuckey with shooters finally with Rip in and Sheed pulling the big man out of the paint. Stuckey didn't just stand there and dribble because there was finally room to drive. He looked ten times as aggressive once he got going. Later, Flip kept Amir in with CB/Rip/Tay and Sheed. I love that combination.

3) Balanced scoring. Maybe it is a result of 1 and 2, but the FG's and FT's were very spread out on our team. 8 players with 3 FG's or more I believe and all but 1 player with FTA's.

4) That dunk by Amir!!! One-handed hanging in the air and taking it out of the clutches of another player. Dude is freaky.



My only other comment is that I thought that Diener would have been a good pick-up for a lot of teams in the off season. He was sort of the Amir Johnson of Orlando for the past few years. He'd get a sniff of playing time, take full advantage of it, then go into bench hibernation for 10 games. He's definitely undersized (as Sheed proved on his final shot), but he is quick and has one of the more deadly strokes.

Detroit 110, Indiana 104: 'SHEED STARS: Wallace puts up 24 points and grabs 10 boards in road win (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/SPORTS03/801300430/1051/SPORTS02&GID=hQ3Hdea7eqlWhIh2cRBjVUiwlTLZCL7ZxMzqa3OvnZI%3D )

"I told the staff, that's what really pisses you off, when you see him play like that for three quarters," coach Flip Saunders said. "Everyone knows he's got the ability to do that night in and night out."

Forward Amir Johnson (six points, six rebounds), point guard Rodney Stuckey (seven points) and forward Jarvis Hayes got the Pistons back within three midway through the second quarter.
"I think (Wallace) saw the energy those guys were playing with," Saunders said, "and it kind of got him interested in playing."


What does Flip get out of always making these back-handed comments about Sheed. Does he want to start trouble?

Aj got some burn, we have reason to think he will now be constantly given PT. Still, he makes many mistakes on D and he doesn't know how to move his feet (Murphy drew a foul abusing this weakness).
But, on O, he's an X- factor- just think of the offensive tip in. He can jump out of the gym and he's pretty quick.
Stuckey played Wade- esque, pushing his body into the defender while going to the hoop- also pretty solid at the 1.
AA showed he's not doing any damage to the team when he's out there.
Sheed was great inside, I still wonder why he decided to stop working the paint as time expired.
All in all, a nice game, but you still shouldn't forget that Tinsley and O'Neal were injured- this shouldn't have gotten that close.

Detroit 110, Indiana 104: 'SHEED STARS: Wallace puts up 24 points and grabs 10 boards in road win (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/SPORTS03/801300430/1051/SPORTS02&GID=hQ3Hdea7eqlWhIh2cRBjVUiwlTLZCL7ZxMzqa3OvnZI%3D )





What does Flip get out of always making these back-handed comments about Sheed. Does he want to start trouble?

oh, another one who tries desperately find "hidden messages" from quotes...Better understand that it doesn't matter, what coaches say publicly, what matters, happens in lockerroom.

Please do not take those "public releases" so damn seriously.

What does Flip get out of always making these back-handed comments about Sheed. Does he want to start trouble?

It is frusterating. Whenever he has one of those good stints I always think the same thing. Soon to be followed by a 5 point game.

Good game last night except for the 1st quarter. Starters are still pacing themselfs. Billups remarked on how much energy the Pacers played with and how unpredictable their style is without O'Neal. Nice that our bench was able to do the same thing. Something to build on.

What does Flip get out of always making these back-handed comments about Sheed. Does he want to start trouble?

Maybe he gets a few more games like last night out of Sheed? Coaches call guys out in the press, especially veteran guys. Not sure I see what's wrong with it. It might even work.

Still though how about SHEED last night in the second and third? 8 of 9, the only miss a three, five boards in eleven minutes. Whoa baby. The Indiana front line was in foul trouble by then and it was fun to watch.

I'm getting more and more impressed by Billups too. I'm not sure he's ever played better than this season. He looks some much in control, and if that jumpshot ever deserved to be called smooth, it's for the way he's shooting this season. He really ought to be starting over Kidd in the ASG.

Stuckey still really isn't running the offense, but last night was a glimmer of what we saw in the preseason. He missed some shots he should have made, but they were good shots, and he seemed more relaxed to me than any time since the injury.

Nice game after a long lay-off against a team playing very loosely.

Can someone explain to Rip about big guys chasing him down on the break?

I truly understand FLip- I mean, Sheed could do this every night but at times, he simply refuses. And come playoff time, I always wonder if he still knows how to work the post as he refused to in the regular season most times.
That block mentioned in the article was a foul- obvious body contact. But since such a huge amount of players get superstar calls, I'm the last one to complain about that bad non- call.

Well, kudos to me! I missed my 'first' game of the season and I did NOT record it. All I did was watch ESPN game tracker on the way in from work. Reminds me of the old days before NBA LEAGUE PASS addicted me.

All I would change in the minutes played last night was to take 5 minutes away from Rip and Dyess(38 and 33, respectively) and give them to AA and Max(14 and 15 would have been their total).

And remeber, guys, PLEEZE REMEMBER, this was not your Mama's Pacers. This was still a game we should have won by +10. But as far as a practice game goes, it was OK. Lets try this rotation vs the KOBEyers.

Some good stuff on here........

I don't even watch the game/players that closely until later in the game. I am most interested in when and how Flip starts subbing. They were bad in the first, I don't know if it was from not playing for a while. While watching I was thinking Flip should have subbed earlier just to try and break the rut. The argument can be made though that maybe they needed some floor time to shake the cobwebs. If this were any type of back to back or 3 in 4 type situation, then I would be more upset if he left them in to rot.

It is funny to me also to hear people get on Hayes for his D. Stuckey can come in and commit 3 fouls in a minute and peole will parise him.

What also impressed me is that Amir was kind of invisible when he first came in the game. Flip stuck with him and he started manking an impact. The develpment of players is a hot topic around here. For the most part you either got it or you don't. AJ is the one guy where PT will help him with the little things like sliding/moving his feet. If he can do that it would help them a lot with the Nocioni's of the world who have caused some problems for them.

Hopefully, it is the little things going forward. Cut Rip's minutes, stop playing some dudes for 18 minutes straight.

P.S. Perhaps the biggest miracle is that Flip didn't play Sheed for the entire 3rd quarter up to the 4 minute mark of the 4th because he was hot.

I think that at one point in the game, Sheed scored (either made a FG or got free throws ) on nine straight touches. He finally missed a 3-pointer that was in and out to end the streak.

I would have to guess that was the longest such streak on the year for the Pistons. Maybe Rip had more in that one game where he wasn't missing.

What does Flip get out of always making these back-handed comments about Sheed. Does he want to start trouble?
While I'm not a big fan of calling players (or coaches for that matter) out in the media, I think this is 1 part Flip's not so subtle way of trying to motivate Sheed to perform this way more often and 1 part frustration that he knows how good/dominent Sheed can be, he just doesn't do it consistently enough.

CB has made several similar comments in the media recently as well.

I know that as a fan (and owner of Sheed in my fantasy league), I get frustrated as well.

I don't think this was a big deal at all.

I just noticed that Dyess had 5 assists too. Man was that a good game. Too bad we won't play a small, depleted team in the ECF.

this was one of the best games of the year. yeah i'd still take a couple more mins away from dice and rip, but not too worried about it - dice's minutes are still low as a starter, and rip can handle it.

i think chauncey is playing much better this year because he's getting rest. sure, tayshaun might be affected more by minutes over the long haul, but i think billups is more affected per-game. as in, if he gets solid rest in the 1st half and at the beginning of the 4th, he's going to take the last 6-8 minutes of the game and rock it out. he makes better decisions and his FG% (and especially 3PT%) shoots way up.

i liked how stuckey noticeably got into a groove and was being aggressive and confident. yeah, it's the pacers and they don't play great D, but who cares? stuckey needs to build confidence. our bench as a whole played a great game AND it was on the road, which is very encouraging.

and don't be fooled by the fact that we could never get past a 7-point lead. indiana is a one-trick pony - 3s - and they were hot. they miss a couple of those and it's a blowout. if this was the playoffs, it's a blowout.

Great stuff from everyone in this thread! I'm looking forward to seeing more games with the increasingly integrated bench once I get back from vacation.

I hadn't watched Indiana since the last time we played them.

David Harrison...let me call you a whaaambulance.

Travis Deiner. Seems like he would have trouble catching on as a backup pg and injuries have him starting. My son calls him Travis Weiner.

Mike Dunleavy Jr. is an offensive juggernaut.

Greg Kelser started talking about Troy Murphy and how he doesn't post up much...and then starting calling him Mike Dunleavy. Even the refs got the two mixed up and tried to charge a Dunleavy foul to Murphy. Other than being tall and white they don't look much alike.

While I'm not a big fan of calling players (or coaches for that matter) out in the media, I think this is 1 part Flip's not so subtle way of trying to motivate Sheed to perform this way more often and 1 part frustration that he knows how good/dominent Sheed can be, he just doesn't do it consistently enough.

CB has made several similar comments in the media recently as well.

I know that as a fan (and owner of Sheed in my fantasy league), I get frustrated as well.

I don't think this was a big deal at all.

I usually wouldn't see it as a big deal, but it's known that they already have an extremely shaky relationship. There's no need to say it, coupled with his chastising of Sheed not wanting to be an All-Star. Just let it go. Sheed is who he is. You're not going to change him now.

I hadn't watched Indiana since the last time we played them.

David Harrison...let me call you a whaaambulance.

Travis Deiner. Seems like he would have trouble catching on as a backup pg and injuries have him starting. My son calls him Travis Weiner.

Mike Dunleavy Jr. is an offensive juggernaut.

Greg Kelser started talking about Troy Murphy and how he doesn't post up much...and then starting calling him Mike Dunleavy. Even the refs got the two mixed up and tried to charge a Dunleavy foul to Murphy. Other than being tall and white they don't look much alike.

I think Dunleavy and Murphy have different tan levels and Murphy is a lot bigger and taller than Dunleavy so there is no physical comparison between them.

:hoops:

I usually wouldn't see it as a big deal, but it's known that they already have an extremely shaky relationship. There's no need to say it, coupled with his chastising of Sheed not wanting to be an All-Star. Just let it go. Sheed is who he is. You're not going to change him now.

Sheed has changed a lot from his days at Portland.

:hoops:

Quote from Sheed on the volume of trash talking he was doing last night and the response from Indy...

"It don't matter,'' he said. "They can say whatever they want back, if they say anything. They ain't going to talk more junk than me.''

While I'm not a big fan of calling players (or coaches for that matter) out in the media, I think this is 1 part Flip's not so subtle way of trying to motivate Sheed to perform this way more often and 1 part frustration that he knows how good/dominent Sheed can be, he just doesn't do it consistently enough.

CB has made several similar comments in the media recently as well.

I know that as a fan (and owner of Sheed in my fantasy league), I get frustrated as well.

I don't think this was a big deal at all.

Different theory. Flip is still trying to belittle the argument that Sheed, and Dyess, and even Maxiell, have been overplayed. Well,they have been. Overall, and within games. In this game, Sheed was not overplayed, and so he could do well thru the whole game, right down to the finish. Sheed does not take games off. He does not take plays off. There is no switch. Sheed gives everything he can, always. There just is not always that much to give. Flip is playing Amir now, but he still refuses to admit the need to do so, in the face of all logic.

Sheed does not take games off. He does not take plays off. There is no switch. Sheed gives everything he can, always.

Are you talking about Sheed or Chuck Norris???

I usually wouldn't see it as a big deal, but it's known that they already have an extremely shaky relationship. There's no need to say it, coupled with his chastising of Sheed not wanting to be an All-Star. Just let it go. Sheed is who he is. You're not going to change him now.

There has been a change recently on how they view Sheed and I am not sure what to make of it. He used to be praised for being a team player and not caring about stats. Now its he should be doing so much more.

There has been a change recently on how they view Sheed and I am not sure what to make of it. He used to be praised for being a team player and not caring about stats. Now its he should be doing so much more.

You're right. The perception of Sheed has changed while his performance seems similar to when he got here. I remember when he signed his contract (CTC) a lot of people predicted that his skills would fade. That hasn't happened.

There has been a change recently on how they view Sheed and I am not sure what to make of it. He used to be praised for being a team player and not caring about stats. Now its he should be doing so much more.
Just my 2 cents. Here's what we know for sure:

Rip and Chauncey are not good enough to carry us to a title.
Tayshaun is a marginal Glue Guy, he's going to fade in the conf finals.
Ben's intangibles that made us great are gone, and while stat wise Dyess is doing pretty good, he still does not do what Ben used to do to make us great.In order for us to get a title Rasheed has to be and play like the best big man on the floor for us to win. He's going to have murder Big Z and Andy if we play Clev, and he at least has to play KG even when we play Boston. We need Sheed playing at an all-star level to win another title.

Sheed has changed a lot from his days at Portland.

:hoops:

I'm more talking about the fact that he doesn't want to be a superstar, and he doesn't want to carry the team. He was like that in POR, and here as well (although he always steps up in the PO's).

I don't think pushing him will make him do that. In fact, it might just make it worse.

edited to add;

I don't think Flip Saunders pushing will make him do that. LB, on the other hand could probably get away with it.

Are you talking about Sheed or Chuck Norris???

I review each game pretty carefully. When asked, I take a good long look at Sheed and how he is doing. Never yet have I seen him take a play off. Yes, he does choose to shoot 3's sometimes when many people, including myself, feel he should be going inside more. But that is not taking a play off. He hits a lot of those 3's.

So I will ask you, just like I have asked many, the next game you feel Sheed took some plays off, let me know. I will be glad to tell you what I saw upon reviewing the tape.

I'm more talking about the fact that he doesn't want to be a superstar, and he doesn't want to carry the team. He was like that in POR, and here as well (although he always steps up in the PO's).

I don't think pushing him will make him do that. In fact, it might just make it worse.

edited to add;

I don't think Flip Saunders pushing will make him do that. LB, on the other hand could probably get away with it.

It seems to me that Sheed was definitely considered a superstar when he played for Portland.

Now whether he wanted to be or not, I don't know.

:hoops:

I review each game pretty carefully. When asked, I take a good long look at Sheed and how he is doing. Never yet have I seen him take a play off. Yes, he does choose to shoot 3's sometimes when many people, including myself, feel he should be going inside more. But that is not taking a play off. He hits a lot of those 3's.

So I will ask you, just like I have asked many, the next game you feel Sheed took some plays off, let me know. I will be glad to tell you what I saw upon reviewing the tape.

Last week on the Jim Rome show, Chauncey Billups said that Sheed doesn't always plays his hardest. He said that Sheed could be the best player in the entire NBA if he gave it his all. Do you know something that CB doesn't?

The number of plays he takes off are inversely proportional to his FTA's per game.

There has been a change recently on how they view Sheed and I am not sure what to make of it. He used to be praised for being a team player and not caring about stats. Now its he should be doing so much more.


I can sense a change, too. I wonder if it is not just trying to motivate him. Very strange.

The number of plays he takes off are inversely proportional to his FTA's per game.
Sheed has taken 164 3's this season compared to 85 ft's.......thats not cool.

I'm afraid that Sheed is what he is.......During the playoffs he will be what he will be.........We'll only go as far into the playoffs as Sheed takes us this season. Still, I figured that Flip needed to start playing the youth more by February, and he recently started to. I went outside and couldn't see my shadow, so I'm figuring on an early playoff exit this year

Last week on the Jim Rome show, Chauncey Billups said that Sheed doesn't always plays his hardest. He said that Sheed could be the best player in the entire NBA if he gave it his all. Do you know something that CB doesn't?

Just because CB will tote the party line does not make it truth. Please note, CB did not say we would win more if Sheed played harder. CB did not say Sheed is making us lose for lack of effort. Sure, Sheed could take more shots. But then, some guys would get less shots. There are only so many shots to go around. Sheed being the best player is meaningless. Its the team being better that counts.

More free throws, not more shots.