ESPN - Sources: Talks between Mavs, Nets heat up - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102)

The West is making blockbuster deals after blockbuster deals.

Jerry Stackhouse, Harris, and Terry for Kidd works. It is obvious that the Mavs will have to give up a lot for him.

Trade ID #4499720 (http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4499720)


RealGM: Sports Is Our Business (http://www.realgm.com)

The article says that it could be Harris, Diop, Stack, and George for Kidd. Then Stack would be bought out and he could return to Dallas.

This is very risky. Maybe even riskier than the Phoenix trade.

I think that names in this trade for kidd aren't so important, from Cuban perspective may be more important a fact that his team plays uninspired, inconsistent bball and therefore changes are needed. Exactly the same risk asi in Shaq to phoenix case: owners felt that changes are needed, but will they be positive ones?

Look at the top of cbssportsline.com and it says it is official.
NBA Basketball - CBSSports.com (http://www.sportsline.com/nba)

It's not on any other website yet, but it seems like some sort of deal is going to occur.

This season is great. I'm not sure if it's a good trade for Mavs but it's good for the league. Dallas will loose depth but without changes they aren't going to win the title. West is veeeeery deep. Sacramento would be a 6th or 7th team in in the East... It's unfair ;>

It' not official yet, but sourcers say: Kidd and Malik Allen to Mavs and Stackhouse, Diop, D. George and 2 first round picks to NJ. It's surely win for Nets(reasons are obvious) but for Cuban=?

just when they start to talk about the east starting to balance out the two conferences... (not that they were close) all the west teams are making huge improvements.... has any team in the east really improved since last year save Boston and Detroit?

ESPN is now reporting it as well:

ESPN - Sources: Mavs, Nets close in on Kidd deal - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102)

Kind of cuts down on the big man rotation a bit. Is Howard now the back-up center for the Mavs? Jersey is going to have to do some pruning.

This helps the Spurs. Dallas was built to beat the Spurs. I think Dallas can handle other teams in the West better than before though. We will see.

Is anybody here afraid of JKidd anymore? He just seems really un-dangerous to me these days. When we were playing NJ in the playoffs a few years ago, it was maddening watching him start the break. Maybe the Nets just haven't been trying lately.

Another trade by a Western Conf team where they acquire an aging superstar for young/younger top level players in an attempt to win the NBA Finals this year.

Such amazing folly by these guys.

It seems clear to me that whoever gets to the Finals from the EC will win the title because the 3 best defensive teams in the league, maybe not statistically wise, are Boston, Detroit and Cleveland when they are at full strength.

Now one could say that the Spurs are among the top three defensive teams. This may have been true in the past, but I don't believe that the Spurs are as good defensively this year as the 3 EC teams I mentioned, notwithstanding statistics. It appears to me that the Lakers or Jazz will get into the Finals this year against one the three teams I mentioned from the EC.

I don't consider Pau to be an aging superstar.

:hoops:

Is our defense as good against the WC teams as it is in the EC? I'm sort of wondering if the good defensive teams in the West are hidden because of the strength of schedule.

quickchecking nets forums: their fans are officially in nirvana.

Is anybody here afraid of JKidd anymore? He just seems really un-dangerous to me these days. When we were playing NJ in the playoffs a few years ago, it was maddening watching him start the break. Maybe the Nets just haven't been trying lately.

The Nets offense is terrible. Kidd piles up his assists when Carter or Jefferson is able to get on a hot streak and hit 5 or so 25' plus jumpers in a row.

:hoops:

I like the Phoenix trade but this one is ridiculous IMO.

1. Devin Harris? He's 10 years younger than Kidd, and still showing potential to improve upon his already decent numbers. I thought he and Josh Howard would be the future of this ballclub....oh well.

2. ....stands for two draft picks. Who cares how low they are, Josh Howard was a low draft pick. This could bite them eventually as well.

The trade fodder doesn't bother me, but I don't see how getting a 35 year old will negate the young talent they are and potentially are giving up.

Marion made sense to me, since he was likely leaving PHX this summer, Harris however, was locked up for 5 years. Not a good move, IMO. Not a good move at all.

Wow, according to that ESPN article, the Mavs are also including $3 million in cash and two first round picks.

That's a lot to give up for a 35 year old point guard, IMO.

That's not just the "Win Now Club". That's borderline "Win Now and Screw the Future Club".

He's over rated.

That's not just the "Win Now Club". That's borderline "Win Now and Screw the Future Club".

:pound:I will say it again. This is riskier than the Shaq to Phoenix trade.

Is anybody here afraid of JKidd anymore? He just seems really un-dangerous to me these days. ... Maybe the Nets just haven't been trying lately.

I've been more or less following him (he is a Sprocket after all) and towards the beginning of the season he was almost averaging a triple double. He dropped off when he started talking about getting traded. It's a lousy long term thing for Dallas, but a motivated Kidd could put up those kind of numbers with Dirk and Josh for the rest of this season and probably a lot of the next. I'd say that's now the official timeframe for the Mavs to win it all.

:pound:I will say it again. This is riskier than the Shaq to Phoenix trade.

And that's the other shoe. If the Mavs don't take it to at least game six of the finals this year and next year, and win one there will be lots of heads on the block.

:pound:I will say it again. This is riskier than the Shaq to Phoenix trade.

Phoenix got rid of a guy who wanted to leave and was grumbling.

The Mavs are getting rid of a lot of depth.

I've been more or less following him (he is a Sprocket after all) and towards the beginning of the season he was almost averaging a triple double.

I know that triple doubles are his thing. But they just seem like weak TD's to me.

His season high is 20 points and it took him 16 shots to do it. He steals rebounds from teammates. His triple doubles always seem to be the minimum. (13/10/10, 11/10/13, 13/11/11, 10/10/10, 15/11/12, 11/10/11, 13/10/13, 12/15/12, 12/11/13, 11/19/10, 16/14/10).

There were a few dominant performances in there, but if I didn't know better, I would say that he is consciously gunning for triple doubles. There are just too many games where he barely gets them.

He's shooting 36% this year. His scoring average is 7.5 points below his high in 02-03. In fact, it has steadily declined every year since then.

I guess I'm a hater.

Phoenix got rid of a guy who wanted to leave and was grumbling.

The Mavs are getting rid of a lot of depth.

The Suns trade may get them to the Finals but I still like the Jazz chances of getting to the Finals better than the Suns and the Lakers also better than the Suns even without Bynum returning. If Bynum returns at full strength by the start of the playoffs and no one else of consequence on the Lakers roster is injured at the start of and through the playoffs I think the Lakers will get to the Finals in a cake walk.

Miami is better without Shaq, even though I don't think that have won yet since they start playing Marion (maybe a couple of games), but they were in those games in the 4th quarter which is a lot better than they were playing with or without Shaq.

Marion is more then getting Shaq's rebounding numbers and scoring a lot more than Shaq. Blount is putting up pretty good numbers starting in an up tempo offense. The Heat will probably get a very good lottery pick. So if they pick correctly and Marion resigns with them it appears to me that they will have a chance to make the playoffs next year.

:hoops:

He's shooting 36% this year.
...
I guess I'm a hater.

Yeah, I've sure noticed that shooting thing too. Add that to Prince shooting 20% and it can make for a long fantasy week. But you're right, that's certainly the thing with him, can he hit the shot well enough to stop you from dropping off him in the half court offense and packing it in around the big guys.

Though surely there are a lot of guards out there who would be pretty happy with those "minimum" triple doubles. :)

Kind of cuts down on the big man rotation a bit. Is Howard now the back-up center for the Mavs? Jersey is going to have to do some pruning.

There may be another trade in the works to get another Centre, but yeah, its risky considering Damiper struggles to stay on the court. Unless they are planning to go small/uptempo and shift Dirk to the 5.


He's shooting 36% this year. His scoring average is 7.5 points below his high in 02-03. In fact, it has steadily declined every year since then.

He is a poor shooter but he probably won't have to shoot too much in the Mavs offense. He can shoot the 3 with more regularity than Harris.

Also looks like Nets will buy out Stackhouse and he will re-sign with Mavs after 30 days.

It's gonna be an interesting playoff bracket in the West, thats for sure.

I know that triple doubles are his thing. But they just seem like weak TD's to me.

His season high is 20 points and it took him 16 shots to do it. He steals rebounds from teammates. His triple doubles always seem to be the minimum. (13/10/10, 11/10/13, 13/11/11, 10/10/10, 15/11/12, 11/10/11, 13/10/13, 12/15/12, 12/11/13, 11/19/10, 16/14/10).

There were a few dominant performances in there, but if I didn't know better, I would say that he is consciously gunning for triple doubles. There are just too many games where he barely gets them.

He's shooting 36% this year. His scoring average is 7.5 points below his high in 02-03. In fact, it has steadily declined every year since then.

I guess I'm a hater.

Surely, you're hater, KIdd is the ONLY guard, who is able constantly make TD's. Dallas got right man(runnin-gunnin) too late and for too much.

Though surely there are a lot of guards out there who would be pretty happy with those "minimum" triple doubles. :)

The only way that a triple double is not impressive is if the player is manufacturing it. I think Bobby Sura missed a shot on purpose to get his 10th rebound after we traded him.

Kidd doesn't do anything that bad, but I get the feeling that once he has a 10 in a category, he focuses on the others. There are just too many 10's on his game logs.

You know what is crazy? Kidd averages 0.7 rebounds less than Bell Wallace per game (9.1 to 9.8). But... Ben Wallace has a better FG%.

You know what is crazy? Kidd averages 0.7 rebounds less than Bell Wallace per game (9.1 to 9.8). But... Ben Wallace has a better FG%.

But Kidd doesn't miss on as many dunks as Ben does.

Mahorn said it's not enough. Kidd may be great, but the real problem is "no dogs" in the front court. They aren't tough enough and will be at least 5th behind the Lakers, Spurs, Suns and Jazz.

Mahorn said it's not enough. Kidd may be great, but the real problem is "no dogs" in the front court. They aren't tough enough and will be at least 5th behind the Lakers, Spurs, Suns and Jazz.

Mahorn must be reading my posts. LOL

:hoops:

Also looks like Nets will buy out Stackhouse and he will re-sign with Mavs after 30 days. I just don't get this part of the deal.

Does anyone know where I can pick up a copy of "NBA Trading for Dummies"? :stupid:

Good trade for Dallas.

Kidd's a major league %%%%%%% but he's better even now than Seinfeld will likely ever be.

But in any case, they keep Terry, who's really underrated. I don't really understand why Johnson marginalizes him in favor of perennial chokers like Howard and Stackhouse.

:pound:The trade has been blocked!

ESPN - Mavs forward George blocks trade of Kidd to Mavs - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818)

:pound:The trade has been blocked!

I don't understand. I thought Kobe had the "only no trade clause in the NBA".This is lousy for Dallas. How can Devean George (wasn't he a Laker only a year ago? I mean he's not a franchise guy, who cares what he wants?) block such a big trade that two teams have agreed to? Devean George?????

I don't really get it either, but this is nuts. How could the Mavs let it get this far without realizing the risk of this happening? You announce a deal where a bunch of your guys are getting shipped out, only to have it called off because of a clause in a contract that no one bothered to take into account? How stupid can a team's personnel people get? This would seriously muck with Dallas' chemistry if it doesn't go through now.

Devean George is hilarious.

I don't really get it either, but this is nuts. How could the Mavs let it get this far without realizing the risk of this happening? You announce a deal where a bunch of your guys are getting shipped out, only to have it called off because of a clause in a contract that no one bothered to take into account? How stupid can a team's personnel people get? This would seriously muck with Dallas' chemistry if it doesn't go through now.

Man, Devean George will be in a suit at the end of the bench. Gotta be alot of resentment and mixed up feelings coming his way. There's alot of ways to get back at a guy even if he's still around and you have to keep paying him. On the other hand, if Devin and Stack and Diop and others didn't want to go...then Devean George could be the guy who saved the day for them. But yeah messy messy messy. Half the team pissed off about it one way or the other.

Man, Devean George will be in a suit at the end of the bench. Gotta be alot of resentment and mixed up feelings coming his way. There's alot of ways to get back at a guy even if he's still around and you have to keep paying him. On the other hand, if Devin and Stack and Diop and others didn't want to go...then Devean George could be the guy who saved the day for them. But yeah messy messy messy. Half the team pissed off about it one way or the other.


Stack was going to sign back with the Mavs anyway, so he is probably not happy with George. You can't blame George, though.

I don't understand. I thought Kobe had the "only no trade clause in the NBA".This is lousy for Dallas. How can Devean George (wasn't he a Laker only a year ago? I mean he's not a franchise guy, who cares what he wants?) block such a big trade that two teams have agreed to? Devean George?????

George informed the Mavericks that he wouldn't consent to being included in the deal, which is his right based on a rare provision in his one-year contract.

"Early Bird rights," a provision earned by being in his second year and on his second contract with the Mavericks, made the move possible.

"We're not trying to hold things up or be difficult, but just like teams make tough decisions all the time -- about cutting players or making trades -- they do what's best for their team, and it's my obligation to do what's best for Devean," his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said, according to The Associated Press.

"You don't want to stop teams from doing their business, but we don't feel like it makes sense at this time. He's starting right now and things are going pretty good."

ESPN - Mavs forward George blocks trade of Kidd to Mavs - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818)

Man, Devean George will be in a suit at the end of the bench. Gotta be alot of resentment and mixed up feelings coming his way. There's alot of ways to get back at a guy even if he's still around and you have to keep paying him. On the other hand, if Devin and Stack and Diop and others didn't want to go...then Devean George could be the guy who saved the day for them. But yeah messy messy messy. Half the team pissed off about it one way or the other.

Where did you read that the players that weren't involved in the trade are pissed off that George pulled the plug on the trade?

It could be that none of the players wanted it and that is why he George axed it!!!

:hoops:

I think there is more to it. Maybe the Mavs realized that the trade was not so great, so they pulled back. Devean's contract was only an excuse for it.

Where did you read that the players that weren't involved in the trade are pissed off that George pulled the plug on the trade?

It could be that none of the players wanted it and that is why he George axed it!!!



Oh no buddah I didn't mean to say that I had read anything about the players feelings etc. I was just thinking along the lines d4e wrote about it being so public and then falling through.

Like say you are Dirk and you are all excited that you are getting Kidd as your pg? And then you find out it's not happening after all. And George and Diop and Stack all heard Dirk getting all thrilled about Kidd. That's what I mean....chemistry killing stuff in the middle of the season. Or I suppose as the players always seem to say "Trades are part of this business so we are used to it."

Now the above example about Dirk was a just one hypothetical, so I don't have a link:pound:and don't want to see any posts about "How do you know Dirk said that?":)

I'm sorry the trade isn't going through. I like Kidd and would watch him more as a Mav because I follow them more.

Oh no buddah I didn't mean to say that I had read anything about the players feelings etc. I was just thinking along the lines d4e wrote about it being so public and then falling through.

Like say you are Dirk and you are all excited that you are getting Kidd as your pg? And then you find out it's not happening after all. And George and Diop and Stack all heard Dirk getting all thrilled about Kidd. That's what I mean....chemistry killing stuff in the middle of the season. Or I suppose as the players always seem to say "Trades are part of this business so we are used to it."

Now the above example about Dirk was a just one hypothetical, so I don't have a link:pound:and don't want to see any posts about "How do you know Dirk said that?":)

I'm sorry the trade isn't going through. I like Kidd and would watch him more as a Mav because I follow them more.

Now say you are Dirk and you are pissed off that Dallas is trading Harris and Stackhouse even though Stack would supposedly resign with Dallas.

My point is we may not know what the real reason was that George axed the trade. All we know is what we read or see on tube. I am pretty sure that Harris and Stack didn't want to go to NJ.



:hoops:

I am pretty sure that Harris and Stack didn't want to go to NJ.Where did you read that?


:wedgie:

As part of the original arrangement, New Jersey was expected to buy out Stackhouse's contract immediately, with Dallas hoping to re-sign him once Stackhouse sits out the 30 days required by a league rule that was instituted before the 2005-06 season.

"I feel great," Stackhouse told the Associated Press. "I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back. I ain't going nowhere.

"I think Devin has a lot of upside, but Jason Kidd is the type of all-league point guard our team needs," Stackhouse continued. "We just need a jolt. Adding a player like him can re-energize a team, hopefully."

Deavan played in tonights game and was 0-11 from the field...guess he wasn't feeling it. Since he did attempt to block the trade bfore the game, he and Diop play but Kidd and Wright sit it out and Nets get blown out by the Rapts:)

George informed the Mavericks that he wouldn't consent to being included in the deal, which is his right based on a rare provision in his one-year contract.

"Early Bird rights," a provision earned by being in his second year and on his second contract with the Mavericks, made the move possible.

"We're not trying to hold things up or be difficult, but just like teams make tough decisions all the time -- about cutting players or making trades -- they do what's best for their team, and it's my obligation to do what's best for Devean," his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said, according to The Associated Press.

"You don't want to stop teams from doing their business, but we don't feel like it makes sense at this time. He's starting right now and things are going pretty good."

ESPN - Mavs forward George blocks trade of Kidd to Mavs - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818)

From the article


If George's veto ends up quashing this trade, it would not be the first time that a lesser name caused a monumental deal to collapse. In the summer of 2000, Matt Geiger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=827)'s refusal to waive his trade kicker squelched a four-team deal between the Sixers, Pistons, Lakers and Hornets that would have sent Allen Iverson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3094) to the Pistons.


That would have been something. As back then the fortunes of 2 franchises were altered due to a throw in piece of the trade.

Can't blame Gerorge though. All he is doing is not giving up something that is legally his. Must be a lot of pressure to go along with it though.

I don't understand. I thought Kobe had the "only no trade clause in the NBA".This is lousy for Dallas. How can Devean George (wasn't he a Laker only a year ago? I mean he's not a franchise guy, who cares what he wants?) block such a big trade that two teams have agreed to? Devean George?????
You have to wonder how many other players in the league might have one of these no trade deals and are any of them lower tier players like Devean??

With that being said, Popovich now wishes that Kwame Brown had one that he would have exercised and Shawn Marion wishes he had one since he will get an early vacation this year with the Heat..:MusicBigGrin:

From the article

If George's veto ends up quashing this trade, it would not be the first time that a lesser name caused a monumental deal to collapse. In the summer of 2000, Matt Geiger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=827)'s refusal to waive his trade kicker squelched a four-team deal between the Sixers, Pistons, Lakers and Hornets that would have sent Allen Iverson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3094) to the Pistons

That would have been something. As back then the fortunes of 2 franchises were altered due to a throw in piece of the trade.

Can't blame Gerorge though. All he is doing is not giving up something that is legally his. Must be a lot of pressure to go along with it though.


I remember that Iverson was suppose to come here, which would have given us Grant Hill, Stackhouse and AI, but Max do you recall who we were supposed to depart with?? (damn that Matt Gieger !!*&^^)....

The main reason that George is blocking the trade is because he would lose his Bird rights if he is traded. That is George's main leverage for negotiating his next contract. It isn't about George having a problem with going to New Jersey.

Deavan played in tonights game and was 0-11 from the field...guess he wasn't feeling it. Since he did attempt to block the trade bfore the game, he and Diop play but Kidd and Wright sit it out and Nets get blown out by the Rapts:)

LOL. Deaven broke Tayshaun's 0-for-10 game to now have the worst shooting game in the NBA this year.

bad move for the mavs. an aging kid was not worth all that they gave up. i have to go on fantazsports.com and do some messing around. good pick up for the nets.

I remember that Iverson was suppose to come here, which would have given us Grant Hill, Stackhouse and AI, but Max do you recall who we were supposed to depart with?? (damn that Matt Gieger !!*&^^)....

I think Stackhouse was actually going to be the main Pistons player involved in that proposed deal.

I remember that Iverson was suppose to come here, which would have given us Grant Hill, Stackhouse and AI, but Max do you recall who we were supposed to depart with?? (damn that Matt Gieger !!*&^^)....

That was Dumars 1st year. Hill was already gone and Ben/Chuckie already agreed to come here, it was later turned into a sign/trade of course. It was basically Stackhouse for Iverson I can't recall who else was thrown in on our end ( Montross I think?). It was a steal because that was back when LB and AI were not getting along and LB wanted him out. The two later agreed to make the best of it and they of course went on to the NBA Finals that year.

Our likely starting line in 00-01 would have been Atkins, AI, Ben Wallace, Curry, Geiger/Joe Smith ( Smith was signed early in the season after the Wolves were forced to void his contract).

It really would have changed the Piston landscape. Figure we probably would not have gotten Rip because Stack would not have been here to trade and AI was too high of a commodity for a 2nd year player. LB would not have been the coach because AI and LB never would have had the chance to patch things up.

Not sure how things would have turned out. Probably the biggest deal in Piston history to not have happened.

That was Dumars 1st year. Hill was already gone and Ben/Chuckie already agreed to come here, it was later turned into a sign/trade of course. It was basically Stackhouse for Iverson I can't recall who else was thrown in on our end ( Montross I think?). It was a steal because that was back when LB and AI were not getting along and LB wanted him out. The two later agreed to make the best of it and they of course went on to the NBA Finals that year.

Our likely starting line in 00-01 would have been Atkins, AI, Ben Wallace, Curry, Geiger/Joe Smith ( Smith was signed early in the season after the Wolves were forced to void his contract).

It really would have changed the Piston landscape. Figure we probably would not have gotten Rip because Stack would not have been here to trade and AI was too high of a commodity for a 2nd year player. LB would not have been the coach because AI and LB never would have had the chance to patch things up.

Not sure how things would have turned out. Probably the biggest deal in Piston history to not have happened.

Thanks Max...we could have floundered for awhile with that lineup and maybe got Labron James and a few other lotto picks and could really be just now startin our surge to the top....

..maybe the NBA suspended the trade so they could assure that Kidd played on the East all-star team and then the trade is completed after the break:):sssh:

Devean George stat line: 0 points, 1 block.

Devean George stat line: 0 points, 1 block.

yeah 0-11 from the field and 0-2 from the FT line...Rod Thorn and Lawrence Frank might be glad that George blocked it. :) Meanwhile Cuban kicking his GM and lawyers for agreeing to that clause in contract

I still can't believe Dallas was willing to do that trade.

Why don't they make a move for Artest if they want to get tough?

yeah 0-11 from the field and 0-2 from the FT line...Rod Thorn and Lawrence Frank might be glad that George blocked it. :) Meanwhile Cuban kicking his GM and lawyers for agreeing to that clause in contract

It wasn't a clause in his contract, just a collective bargaining loophole in which 1 year bird rights players have to agree to a trade, since said trade would take away their bird rights ( the right for their team to be able to go over the cap to resign them)

I have to think Georges 0-11 performance may have been influenced by the heckling he was taking from fans that were supposed to be rooting for him. Noone expects that from your own fans unless you are playing in New York :MusicBigGrin:

Probably the biggest deal in Piston history to not have happened.
Not even close IMO, I say Webber staying in Sacramento was bigger. Thank the Lord for that one.

Not even close IMO, I say Webber staying in Sacramento was bigger. Thank the Lord for that one.

Or whatif Hill would have stayed and Webber came here in 01? Would have been stuck with 2 injured players on max contracts.

Not even close IMO, I say Webber staying in Sacramento was bigger. Thank the Lord for that one.

He was a free agent - it wasn't a trade deal that fell through. (I think)

I still can't believe Dallas was willing to do that trade.

Why don't they make a move for Artest if they want to get tough?Makes sense to me...and much cheaper. As odd as it might sound, I think Cuban & RonRon could get along.

Makes sense to me...and much cheaper. As odd as it might sound, I think Cuban & RonRon could get along.

Cheaper. Better. Less time comittment (assuming Ron opts out next year, like he said he would).

more nails to coffin:ESPN - Source: Stackhouse can be in Kidd trade, but can't go back - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3247183)

But this is really weird. Stack did not say anything wrong. Rules allow, so what? If you do not like it, change rule

more nails to coffin:ESPN - Source: Stackhouse can be in Kidd trade, but can't go back - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3247183)

But this is really weird. Stack did not say anything wrong. Rules allow, so what? If you do not like it, change rule

It seems that Stack's agent and Dallas worked out a deal for him to return to Dallas after the 30 day waiting period.

It is not allowed by NBA rules to work out the return before the 30 day waiting period, after the trade is made, is over. They worked out the deal before the trade was even made. This is illegal by NBA rules.

:hoops:

It seems that Stack's agent and Dallas worked out a deal for him to return to Dallas after the 30 day waiting period.

It is not allowed by NBA rules to work out the return before the 30 day waiting period, after the trade is made, is over. They worked out the deal before the trade was even made. This is illegal by NBA rules.

:hoops:


Prove it, I mean, juridically. And logic says that allowing Stack back to Dallas was Thorn's way to sweeten the deal( Thorn was way more interested in this deal than Cuban, obviously). And ALL deals are worked out before execution.

Everyone knew Lindsey was going to get released and was coming back when he was traded, and before the deal was even finalized.

No difference here.

Prove it, I mean, juridically. And logic says that allowing Stack back to Dallas was Thorn's way to sweeten the deal( Thorn was way more interested in this deal than Cuban, obviously). And ALL deals are worked out before execution.

I already posted the link on another thread.

Here it is again.


League to look at Stackhouse's comments
By Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/expertsarchive;_ylt=AiT5krleCXE4D7AsUitacFTTjdIF?a uthor=Adrian+Wojnarowski), Yahoo! Sports
February 15, 2008 http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/cn/headshots/adrian_wojnarowski.jpg (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/expertsarchive;_ylt=ApxOJi2R_sfEYIz7rKa6n8nTjdIF?a uthor=Adrian+Wojnarowski)http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/p/yse_lo_70x24_2.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/yhoo/nba/article/SIG=11daaeced;_ylt=AnBsPl9m6iI.Q36dfbOTcpPTjdIF/*http%3A//sports.yahoo.com/top/expertscorner) NEW ORLEANS – As the New Jersey Nets (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/njn/;_ylt=Agk1C9cL9cfj0MMMhnwbISnTjdIF) and Dallas Mavericks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/dal/;_ylt=ApmiyyGkMHvUVkHjqE62nJLTjdIF) feverishly worked to convince Devean George (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3346/;_ylt=At4oh.sJZBhXviS88GVJtmXTjdIF) to join in the trade for Jason Kidd (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/2625/;_ylt=AlQB_q8a.M1lPp2Tx_HAFq7TjdIF) on Thursday, there suddenly loomed another issue that could obliterate the proposed deal: the loose lips of Jerry Stackhouse (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3005/;_ylt=Agox0eZeYcztWz4hSQCFvoDTjdIF).


The NBA will investigate the possibility the Mavericks and Stackhouse violated league rules with a prearranged agreement for the forward to return to Dallas after reaching a contract buyout in New Jersey and sitting out the 30-day waiting period, sources said.


Several league sources said the NBA will consider forbidding Stackhouse to re-sign with the Mavericks this season as punishment for public comments the forward made on Wednesday that suggested tampering could have occurred.


If it comes to that, the deal is dead. Dallas owner Mark Cuban wouldn't complete the trade for Kidd without a belief that he could bring back Stackhouse this season. Ultimately, sources say, Mavericks management decided that losing Stackhouse would be too hard of a hit to the Mavericks' depth, too steep a price to pay for Kidd.


For the Mavericks, the trouble started when Stackhouse, 33, gave an interview to the Associated Press on Wednesday that suggested there was a plan for how his trade, buyout and eventual re-signing with Dallas would unfold.

Stackhouse said that he was only part of the deal "to make the numbers work."

What's more, he said, "I feel great. I get 30 days to rest then I'll be right back. I ain't going nowhere."
The NBA doesn't allow such prearranged agreements. The rest of the league is required to have a fair chance to sign Stackhouse in the 30 days before he is eligible to re-sign with the Mavericks. It doesn't help appearances that Stackhouse and Kidd share the same agent, Jeff Schwartz.


When several league executives read Stackhouse's comments on Wednesday, they were irate and privately promised to protest if Stackhouse ends up passing on leaguewide offers and returns to the Mavericks.


"It sounds like a side deal, doesn't it?" one Eastern Conference executive said. "The league will have a lot of explaining to do if Stackhouse goes back to Dallas."


He has already admitted that he violated legal rules.

League to look at Stackhouse's comments - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkF4Uox1Z45d0CQ8yvL2tN.8vLYF?slug=aw-stackhousesnag021508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

:hoops:

I have said for the past three or four years that Dallas has no heart. Here's a bumbling front office that can't complete a simple trade. Why not check D. George's contract BEFORE talking to the media? Why the hell would Cuban and co. expect D. George to GIVE UP his Bird rights? And then say they have a "problem" with his agent cause his agent is doing his job? HELLO!!!


On top of that the front office neglected to remind Stack to keep his trap shut. A bunch of would-be cowboy bumbling idiots if ever there was such! Then they want to make D. George and Stack be the "bad guys" cause these players saved the front office from themselves! Hilarious!


I have several peeps in Dallas and they are all afflicted with the "Texas braggadocio, count-your-chickens-before-they-hatch, foot-in-mouth" disease. In addition to being "ship-jumpers" every time another "Texas team" makes it further than they do. Well...they are all suffering from "zip mouth" disease now. LOL!!


And Cuban with his knee-jerking, "wanna be," running scared azz giving away half his team for an OLD player who single handedly got his best coach fired, hand picked a puppet replacement; then promptly quit on him. All the while pissin and moaning while his wife ran roughshod over the organization.


We outta send Bill Lambier and Rick Mahorn down to Dallas, drop in on Cuban and say "BOO," just to see what else falls from the tree. The Lakers getting serious and Shaq to Pheonix has everybody in the "star-hungry" west shook up!


I'm LOVING this!!

Everyone knew Lindsey was going to get released and was coming back when he was traded, and before the deal was even finalized.

No difference here.

Even if it was known Lindsey did not say anything, so there was not actual evidence. Stackhouse mentioned it, so there is proof that it was planned to get him back to Dallas, which is not allowed.

Even if it was known Lindsey did not say anything, so there was not actual evidence. Stackhouse mentioned it, so there is proof that it was planned to get him back to Dallas, which is not allowed.

didn't they also change the rule with lindsey in mind.... wasn't he back like the next day basically in 04? they changed it to the 30 days to stop such things from happening... and actually i think it would be fair to say if traded from a team you are unable to return to said team till after the championship of that season has concluded.

When was Lindsey traded? I thought it was Elden Campbell in the Arroyo deal. Elden did not publicly say anything other than he hoped the Jazz would cut him, and then there was that thing when NJ threatened to sign him.

Looks like Stack took it too far.

When was Lindsey traded? I thought it was Elden Campbell in the Arroyo deal. Elden did not publicly say anything other than he hoped the Jazz would cut him, and then there was that thing when NJ threatened to sign him.

Looks like Stack took it too far.

he went to boston in the 3 team trade that landed us sheed.... again off the top of my head and to tired to look it up to be 100 percent sure, but pretty sure he was...

ok looked it up.... can't sleep anyways

Lindsey Hunter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Hunter)

He was traded to the Boston Celtics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics) in February 2004 along with Chucky Atkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chucky_Atkins) for Mike James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_James), but never played a game for the Celtics as he was immediately released and re-signed by Detroit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Pistons) 10 days later.

he went to boston in the 3 team trade that landed us sheed.... again off the top of my head and to tired to look it up to be 100 percent sure, but pretty sure he was...

ok looked it up.... can't sleep anyways

Lindsey Hunter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Hunter)

He was traded to the Boston Celtics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics) in February 2004 along with Chucky Atkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chucky_Atkins) for Mike James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_James), but never played a game for the Celtics as he was immediately released and re-signed by Detroit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Pistons) 10 days later.


along with the pick that netted the C's Tony Allen. It was part of the Rasheed Wallace trade. I Forget who Atlanta sent Boston but it was crucial to us getting Rasheed from Atlanta. I remember Rod Thorn called Ainge at the time and tried to talk him out of it......that jerk.

Serves him right that he gets screwed out of getting a fine young point guard and two first rounders for Kidd after what he tried to do to us.

Aw heck I had to look it up as well


NBA.com Trade deadline 2004 (http://www.nba.com/news/trade_040219.html)

I have said for the past three or four years that Dallas has no heart. Here's a bumbling front office that can't complete a simple trade. Why not check D. George's contract BEFORE talking to the media? Why the hell would Cuban and co. expect D. George to GIVE UP his Bird rights? And then say they have a "problem" with his agent cause his agent is doing his job? HELLO!!!

On top of that the front office neglected to remind Stack to keep his trap shut. A bunch of would-be cowboy bumbling idiots if ever there was such! Then they want to make D. George and Stack be the "bad guys" cause these players saved the front office from themselves! Hilarious!

I agree completely. Generally, I think Cuban has been a very good owner, but man, the string of screw-ups that are derailing this deal are completely ridiculous.

...to be continiued...

Nets president says there's no previous agreement with Stackhouse for Kidd trade (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/SPORTS0102/802160385/1004)

muddy thing

...to be continiued...

Nets president says there's no previous agreement with Stackhouse for Kidd trade (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/SPORTS0102/802160385/1004)

muddy thing

what else can he say.... if he admits to anything he would be in for a fine too

When was Lindsey traded? I thought it was Elden Campbell in the Arroyo deal. Elden did not publicly say anything other than he hoped the Jazz would cut him, and then there was that thing when NJ threatened to sign him.

Looks like Stack took it too far.


NJ did sign Elden, after he told them he absolutely did not want to play there. Then after EC sat depressed about it for several weeks, they finally cut him and he went back to the Pistons. That's as far as I remember, at least.

The Mavericks and New Jersey Nets have agreed to a retooled deal that will send Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Trenton Hassell, Moe Ager, a signed-and-traded Keith Van Horn, two first-round draft picks and cash in exchange for the future Hall of Fame point guard and Malik Allen.
Lose-lose.

Lose-lose.

Nets can win if Harris lives up to potential

or if they get a late draft pick steal ala Josh Howard style

Nets can win if Harris lives up to potential

or if they get a late draft pick steal ala Josh Howard style

No doubt. Two first-round draft picks is nothing to sneeze at....whatever that means.

Everyone knew Lindsey was going to get released and was coming back when he was traded, and before the deal was even finalized.

No difference here.

didn't they also change the rule with lindsey in mind.... wasn't he back like the next day basically in 04? they changed it to the 30 days to stop such things from happening... and actually i think it would be fair to say if traded from a team you are unable to return to said team till after the championship of that season has concluded.
Exactly right round. The rule wasn't in place when Lindsey was traded and then re-signed. That's the difference.

Exactly right round. The rule wasn't in place when Lindsey was traded and then re-signed. That's the difference.

It seems that is the case, though it wont matter now that apparently the Mavs have put another deal on the table....no George or Stackhouse?


George will not be a happy boy this summer when his Bird rights are not even a factor in his next deal. Whatever that was all about. He's not worth anything close to what his bird rights would have secured.

George will not be a happy boy this summer when his Bird rights are not even a factor in his next deal. Whatever that was all about. He's not worth anything close to what his bird rights would have secured.
I think George (and his agent) really hurt himself with this move, IMO.

I think George (and his agent) really hurt himself with this move, IMO.


Hes sort of a malcontent now isn't he?

Except not in the good Ben Wallace way.

Kidd will make a difference but not a championship difference and to me that is the key. if the mavs do not win the championship this year or next, the trade will not be good. jason kidd is a back spasm away from being out the next three or four weeks. i have no respect for him, the way he played this year for new jersey. i saw 4 nets games in person this year and both he played horribly....i think he did this on purpose to force a trade.

i wish this trade blows up in the mavs and kidd's face big time.....it just has to.....just to show that you cannot tank for one team just to force a trade to a contender.........Here is hoping the gods of basketball can show kidd a real rough time.

Kidd looked pretty darn impressive running the offense in today's all-star game! Wow, that guy is an amazing passer.

Kidd looked pretty darn impressive running the offense in today's all-star game! Wow, that guy is an amazing passer.

Agreed .

I lost track of how many times he made me say "Wow.."

I lost track of how many times he made me say "Wow.."
I think you speak for everyone there.

Well, his ex-wife probably forgot the first 'w', but it's close enough.

I think you speak for everyone there.

Well, his ex-wife probably forgot the first 'w', but it's close enough.


oh...thats not right :pound:

Kidd will slow them down compared to what they were with Harris running the point.

Harris is quicker than Kidd and is actually a pretty good shooter. As everyone knows Kidd can't shoot worth sheet.

Giving up Diop could hurt. He has been a valuable rebounder off of the bench in limited minutes.

If you watched the Nets play at all this year, they basically had no inside game. With Kidd not being to hit an outside jumper the defense would collapse down low and force Carter and Jefferson to chuck them from the cheep seats, either 3s or long 2s.

With Kidd's arrival this will force Dirk to the perimeter and probably eliminate Dallas inside game.

All Kidd is good for anymore is passing on the fast break and getting rebounds.

I think Dirks' numbers on offense go down and Howard's will go up as he will get more fast break baskets than in the past.

Net, net I think the trade was a big mistake for Dallas. I don't see this trade getting them to the Finals and Kidd will be 35 in 5 weeks.

:hoops:

Kidd will slow them down compared to what they were with Harris running the point.

Harris is quicker than Kidd and is actually a pretty good shooter. As everyone knows Kidd can't shoot worth sheet.





Harris is just as impotent from the perimeter.

The older I get the more I appreciate the effect a wizened player with experience and tact can have on the game from the point position.

I'm surprised you don't buddha, as grey as your hair has gotten lately. :)

I agree though...the Mavs won't make it to the finals.

i wish this trade blows up in the mavs and kidd's face big time.....it just has to.....just to show that you cannot tank for one team just to force a trade to a contender.........Here is hoping the gods of basketball can show kidd a real rough time.

Worked for Alonzo Mourning - as I recall he screwed both Toronto and New Jersey and got himself a ring in Miami.

Harris is just as impotent from the perimeter.

The older I get the more I appreciate the effect a wizened player with experience and tact can have on the game from the point position.

I'm surprised you don't buddha, as grey as your hair has gotten lately. :)

I agree though...the Mavs won't make it to the finals.

I don't agree with you at all on this.

Harris has improved significantly from distance this year. He is shooting .357 this year on 3s.

Kidd is shooting .356 on 3s.

Harris is getting better at 3s.

Kidd is getting older.

As far as experience goes.

Kidd had Carter and Jefferson and NJ is last or second last in scoring
Kidd will have Dirk and Howard at Dallas

Yes Carter's game has fallen off, but the fact is that as far as offensive goes Dirk and Howard are not that much better than Carter and Jefferson.

Harris is young and getting better. Kidd is older and getting worse.
Losing Diop will really hurt the Mavs interior play from their bench guys.

I have followed Kidd's game from his days at Cal. He may be wiser now as a point guard than he was at Cal but his aging body is not compensating for it.

Increased experience does not make up for declining physical skills, otherwise older players would never retire.

When you get older hopefully you learn not to follow the media hype and think for yourself.


:hoops:

i have no respect for him, the way he played this year for new jersey. i saw 4 nets games in person this year and both he played horribly....i think he did this on purpose to force a trade.

i wish this trade blows up in the mavs and kidd's face big time.....it just has to.....just to show that you cannot tank for one team just to force a trade to a contender.........Here is hoping the gods of basketball can show kidd a real rough time.

Do you call nearly averaging a triple double playing horribly on purpose? Even Lebra can't do that.

Do you call nearly averaging a triple double playing horribly on purpose? Even Lebra can't do that.

The main job of a point guard is too make the rest of the team better on offense.

Kidd had Carter and Jefferson at NJ and NJ was still third last in scoring.

NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html)

Triple doubles don't mean squat as a point guard if your team can't score especially when you have two offensive players like Jefferson and Carter.

If you watched NJ this year their offense was in total disarray. A friggen disaster. I saw one of Kidd's last game with the Nets when they recently played and lost to the Lakers at home. The Nets offense was terrible and Kidd was the point guard.

:hoops:

If the Nets keep sucking - post trade, anybody wanna make a serious run at Diop over the summer???

When you get older hopefully you learn not to follow the media hype and think for yourself.
This one is waaaaaaaay toooo easy to get myself in trouble over. :pound:

If the Nets keep sucking - post trade, anybody wanna make a serious run at Diop over the summer???

We already have a DeSagana Diop. ...We just call him Cheikh Samb.:smoke06:

Cheick Samb is only half of a Diop.

The better half, maybe, but not the more useful (http://blogs.nypost.com/40by40/Fat-Guy-in-Chair-thumb.jpg) half.

Worked for Alonzo Mourning - as I recall he screwed both Toronto and New Jersey and got himself a ring in Miami.


Don't remind me. The Mourning situation makes me sick just to think about it again

The main job of a point guard is too make the rest of the team better on offense.

Kidd had Carter and Jefferson at NJ and NJ was still third last in scoring.

NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html)

Triple doubles don't mean squat as a point guard if your team can't score especially when you have two offensive players like Jefferson and Carter.

If you watched NJ this year their offense was in total disarray. A friggen disaster. I saw one of Kidd's last game with the Nets when they recently played and lost to the Lakers at home. The Nets offense was terrible and Kidd was the point guard.

:hoops:

Carter and Jefferson are both streak shooters that become one dimensional players when their shot isn't falling.

They are only hyped by the media to be anything else :MusicBigGrin:

Do you have any sort of measurable standard of correlation to prove or disprove your comparison of Dirk/Howard and Jefferson/Carter as it relates to the total PPG output, FG% of the team, etc ? Or are we just going to make up standards as we go along?

Kidd can still pass, especially in a broken field. Problems with that: Dallas plays an extremely slow game; there aren't many fast breaks in their offense.

Kidd can pass in halfcourt sets, especially when there's off-ball movement. Problems with that: Dallas plays isolation basketball, so Kidd wouldn't have the ball in his hands anywhere near as much as he'd like. Dallas's better scorers don't like to move without the ball. Kidd's become one of the worst scorers in the NBA, so he can't run the pick-and-roll much.

Kidd's triple-doubles will dry up now that he's playing alongside Dampier, Nowitzki, and Howard, and defensively he's an absolute turnstile against quicker guards like - I don't know, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Rafer Alston, Derek Fisher, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, and Monta Ellis. He can guard bigger points and swingmen, but Terry can't guard anyone.

I don't think he's playing below his capability; I think he just isn't that good anymore, at least good enough where his talents completely outweigh his flaws.

As for Harris, he's got quick feet and the refs buy his flops, but he'll get torched by bigger guards, he doesn't see the floor well at all, and his jumpshot is not good. Maybe he'll improve his shot, maybe he won't; but he'll never be a great point guard.

This one is waaaaaaaay toooo easy to get myself in trouble over. :pound:

Go ahead. Give it a shot.

:hoops:

Carter and Jefferson are both streak shooters that become one dimensional players when their shot isn't falling.

They are only hyped by the media to be anything else :MusicBigGrin:

Do you have any sort of measurable standard of correlation to prove or disprove your comparison of Dirk/Howard and Jefferson/Carter as it relates to the total PPG output, FG% of the team, etc ? Or are we just going to make up standards as we go along?


I suggest looking at the Mav's ppg

Right now they are averaging 99.3 ppg with a + 3.9 ppg differential.

NJ is now averaging 93.6 ppg with a negative differential of 5.3 ppg

Let us see what they are at the end of the year.



NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html)

Kidd can still pass, especially in a broken field. Problems with that: Dallas plays an extremely slow game; there aren't many fast breaks in their offense.

Kidd can pass in halfcourt sets, especially when there's off-ball movement. Problems with that: Dallas plays isolation basketball, so Kidd wouldn't have the ball in his hands anywhere near as much as he'd like. Dallas's better scorers don't like to move without the ball. Kidd's become one of the worst scorers in the NBA, so he can't run the pick-and-roll much.

Kidd's triple-doubles will dry up now that he's playing alongside Dampier, Nowitzki, and Howard, and defensively he's an absolute turnstile against quicker guards like - I don't know, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Rafer Alston, Derek Fisher, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, and Monta Ellis. He can guard bigger points and swingmen, but Terry can't guard anyone.

I don't think he's playing below his capability; I think he just isn't that good anymore, at least good enough where his talents completely outweigh his flaws.

As for Harris, he's got quick feet and the refs buy his flops, but he'll get torched by bigger guards, he doesn't see the floor well at all, and his jumpshot is not good. Maybe he'll improve his shot, maybe he won't; but he'll never be a great point guard.

Your post seems to me to correctly assess the situation.

:hoops:

Re-worked possible deal:

ESPN - Nets, Mavs appear closer to finishing redone Kidd trade - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3252409)

If the Nets keep sucking - post trade, anybody wanna make a serious run at Diop over the summer???

If Joe could somehow land Diop THIS season, - I'd say YES!
But over the summer there's gonna be a TON of FAs available. And Samb will have one more off-season to eat cheeseburgers and develop his game. :burgereater:

Wow. So they are going to get Jason Kidd AND keep George? What a coup.

Wow. So they are going to get Jason Kidd AND keep George? What a coup.

And Stack too without him takin 30 days rest.

Pretty unbelievable some of the deals these Western teams have pulled off -- whether they work out or not.

Sloan and Pop gotta be pissed. :)

And Stack too without him takin 30 days rest.
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Now, I would say this is a great trade for them.

Pretty unbelievable some of the deals these Western teams have pulled off -- whether they work out or not.

Sloan and Pop gotta be pissed. :)


Well in the end only one of those deals will workout as it relates to getting to the finals this eason. The laker deal is the only one that will possibly pay dividends beyond this year, (depending on how Greg Oden develops in the NW), but it would be a hoot if the Hornets or Jazz actually win out this season leaving the major traders pondering what went wrong...

The mav's will self destruct and so will Phoenix. The mavs are letting thier big man go. They are going to take a turn for the worst unless they make another move.

The Mavs gave up two 1st round picks from could be a lottery team when NJ can exercise those picks.

Harris is young and will be a good player for years.

Look the EC

Miami unloading and rebuilding
NJ unloading and rebuilding
Memphis unloading and unloading. :pound:

I think the teams in the EC who have aging superstars and have no chance to win with them are unloading them to build for the future.

:hoops: