At Milwaukee Feb 20 8PM

tv: FSN

Bucks are 19-34, 13-11 at home and are on a 4 game losing streak.

Chance to win and give youngsters some significant minutes. Are you listening, Flip?

Chance to win and give youngsters some significant minutes. Are you listening, Flip?

Maybe it is time to give the Aryan Bomber a chance, though I doubt it will happen.

I would love to see him prove me wrong and show us that he can earn and get serious minutes as a Pistons rotation player.

:hoops:

Chat is open....

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Five minutes left in the first half and no AJ?????????

I have no idea how the 2nd half will play out, but this was the perfect game to sub everyone out early. The starters clearly didn't have it. Give 'em all a blow, get all 12 in there in the 1st half and let it ride.

This team is still on vacation and complacent ....trade one of those starters and wake this team up....

This team is still on vacation and complacent ....trade one of those starters and wake this team up....

There isn't fair trade in this case, starters contracts are reasonable and other GM-s do not want to give away their reasonable contracts, only ending or overpaid are available.

Where's the DEEF? Second straight game where we have given up at least 80 points by the end of third. During the streak, the opposition was only averaging 87??

Where's the DEEF? Second straight game where we have given up at least 80 points by the end of third. During the streak, the opposition was only averaging 87??

My theory is that 10 game winning streak reinforced their "invincibility"(read:complacency) feelings and here they are now.

This is the 2nd straight game i'm missing. They need me LOL :)

Seriously though, WTF is going on?!

Almost 40 min for Billups and Prince in a blowout ?

AJ = + 13 and 15 minutes with no fouls
Dyess = - 19

We should start AJ.

:hoops:

Golden opportunity thrown away. Pistons get the ball back on a Buck non-timeout tech call ( or whatever you call it ) and can't get it done. Where is Mr. Big Shot when you need him? Sheed was Mr. Big shot today but he could not get that last one.

Thats about it. I could care less about who played what mins when we lose although I know thats going to be the crux of this thread.

AJ = + 13
Dyess = - 19

We should start AJ.

:hoops:

That's been pretty obvious for awhile. Flip's on the 2-year plan though. If he's still around in 2010, it will definately happen!!

edited to add;

I caught the end. The last 3 was not a Sheed shot. That's not his spot. I don't know if that was the play, saw Chauncey and him talking afterwards. I can't fault him though. He + AJ were the only reason we were even in that position to begin with. It's not a coincedence that our defense is 10x better with Amir playing next to Sheed.

CHI lost
CLE won
ORL lost

not much change in the standings

BOS hopefully goes down to GS tonight

Golden opportunity thrown away. Pistons get the ball back on a Buck non-timeout tech call ( or whatever you call it ) and can't get it done. Where is Mr. Big Shot when you need him? Sheed was Mr. Big shot today but he could not get that last one.

Thats about it. I could care less about who played what mins when we lose although I know thats going to be the crux of this thread.

Sheed probably lofted that one too quick, but I'm not going to fault him since he and Billups kept Detroit in it. Can't play catchup, especially against bad teams.

Golden opportunity thrown away. Pistons get the ball back on a Buck non-timeout tech call ( or whatever you call it ) and can't get it done. Where is Mr. Big Shot when you need him? Sheed was Mr. Big shot today but he could not get that last one.

Thats about it. I could care less about who played what mins when we lose although I know thats going to be the crux of this thread.

I don't us losing either. But why ruin my night.

:hoops:

It's not a coincedence that our defense is 10x better with Amir playing next to Sheed.


You got that right

:hoops:

AJ = + 13
Dyess = - 19

We should start AJ.

:hoops:

They should at least play AJ. This went from a really aggravating to a really entertaining game pretty quickly. I just wish Flip stayed awake long enough to realize what was going on. I don't know why he is so reluctant to put AJ in when they're struggling to score. What is his aversion to easy buckets?

There was a lot of scared Flip tonight. Would the world end if he played CB, Stuckey and Rip together? Why keep trotting out the same unproductive unit time after time?

Is there a team out there besides the Washington Generals that runs worse plays out of timeouts? Did anyone else enjoy Hayes' hook shot from the 3 point line out of one timeout as much as I did? Aside from putting the play up on the Jumbotron, could their last shot have been any more obvious?

I don't really care that they lost or played poorly again. It is a long season and these things happen. It is how they lose that gets me. SA gets Thomas, DET stands pat. Suns get Shaq, DET stands pat. Lakers get Gasol, DET stands pat. DAL gets Kidd, DET...........

They should at least play AJ. This went from a really aggravating to a really entertaining game pretty quickly. I just wish Flip stayed awake long enough to realize what was going on. I don't know why he is so reluctant to put AJ in when they're struggling to score. What is his aversion to easy buckets?

There was a lot of scared Flip tonight. Would the world end if he played CB, Stuckey and Rip together? Why keep trotting out the same unproductive unit time after time?

Is there a team out there besides the Washington Generals that runs worse plays out of timeouts? Did anyone else enjoy Hayes' hook shot from the 3 point line out of one timeout as much as I did? Aside from putting the play up on the Jumbotron, could their last shot have been any more obvious?

I don't really care that they lost or played poorly again. It is a long season and these things happen. It is how they lose that gets me. SA gets Thomas, DET stands pat. Suns get Shaq, DET stands pat. Lakers get Gasol, DET stands pat. DAL gets Kidd, DET...........

I am a big Stuckey fan, but I have got to tell you that his plus minus number this year is horrible and they ain't getting any better.

:hoops:

Believe it or not the Pistons had a chance to tie the game with 7.6 seconds left, but Sheed who had hit 4 straight 3 balls missed a 3 ball attempt from the right. ( He is better when he shoots them from the top of the circle IMO)

The Pistons were down by as many as 21 or so points, but Billups kept then within shouting difference scoring at will in the third....unfortunately our defense didn't come alive until the 4th qtr and we proably needed 3 more mins to pull this one out.

To many TO's and missed shots by our front court in the first half spelled doom and the bench was once again a no show collectively, but Amir did play well down the stretch with the starters and only a missed contested dunk blemishing his +13.

Stuckey had four assists but was 0-5 form the field forcing layups that could not find the hoop. Not sure what the deal is with Rip...8 shots tonight and only 6 last night..I thought he was our leading scorer??

The real problem since the break is our defense. back to back nights of giving up 103 points...including giving up 80+ at the end of the third in both?? Can't win many games giving 100 points.

Meaningless stats of the night
Pistons now 6-9 when allowing the opponent to score over 100 points
This is the first loss this season to a divsional foe other than the Bulls. We were 7-0 vs the Cavs, Pacers and Bucs
Took Pistons 3 losses to get to 30 wins, so maybe it takes 3 losses before they can notch # 40

This team is still on vacation and complacent ....trade one of those starters and wake this team up....
I think (I hope) that is what this is leading up to. We're in our 3rd season of the inmates running the asylum, and while losing is never pretty, the lack of hustle, focus and execution is starting to really bother me.

I am a big Stuckey fan, but I have got to tell you that his plus minus number this year is horrible and they ain't getting any better.

:hoops:

I was only using Stuckey as an example, it's not that I think tat line-up is the cure. I specifically am saying stop hitting the snooze button an try something. Speed the game up, get some easy scores and for the love of God stop getting the same 22' J with 4 seconds left on the clock.

The Pistons deadline inactivity is grabbing on to these losses and making mountains out of mole hills.

Another coaching loss. However, Flip got religion in the 4th and we almost pulled off a great comeback. Amir got fouled and did not get a call, and that call might have kept us from winning this one. Billups was fantastic in the 2nd half to keep us close, and Sheed then nailed 4 straight triples to get us to within 3 points with about a minute to go in the game. Amir was the other hero, just playing flat out hustling defense, and hustling with length and height to really make a difference. Not to mention he was gathering in a ton of rebounds, or at least fighting for them sometimes such that the ball ended up in our hands.


Tay also was being quite helpful in the 4th. Rip was the our lone star who just could not get it going to help any in the 4th. Which goes back to why this was a coaching loss. Flip chose to lose the game the moment he decided to put Rip back into the game with 10 minutes to go still in the 2nd quarter. You just don't do that. Let Rip rest. The game gets won in the 2nd half, not the 2nd quarter. Now, you know Flip chose to do this before the game even began, so we never did really have a chance in the game. It was not something done from the way the game was going. This is Flip's poor rotation, to give Afflalo about 4 minutes and yank him regarless of anything.


Our starters came out poorly. We got behind. We got a nice little spurt of energy though when Afflalo and Maxiell came into the game for the last few minutes of the 1st quarter. Afflalo left on a down note, but during his stint, we did not lose ground to Milwaukee. No way he should have sat, since he had done better than the starter, and again, it was the 2nd quarter.


As some have mentioned, of course Dyess should not be starting for us. Starting two centers when no team in the league really has much beef up front is kind of ridiculous, and yet this decision was made before camp even began. Nobody looked at what would help us. Nothing was tried. Minutes were not fought for. Dyess was simply given the starters role. It ain't anything sacred having Dyess start. It should be reversed ASAP.


Just to be clear, the unit that almost got all the way back was Billups, Rip, Tay, Amir, Sheed. Yeah, a very good defensive unit. Absolutely I think this should be our starting unit.


Our bench did very little offensively in this game.


Dyess got nothing in the first half, made a couple of jumpers in the 2nd half. He also got a lot of rebounds. But he can't rebound nearly as well as Amir. He can't patrol the perimeter nearly as well as Amir. Dyess is better at guarding the Shaq's in the league, but hey, Sheed is better and we only need one center in the game at a time.


Hayes did hit a three to start the 4th quarter, but here is another player who could be replaced. Early on in the season, it was decided to go with Hayes. Permanently apparently. But again, Amir could be playing some small forward minutes, giving plenty of time for Amir ans Maxiell to play along side each other - with either Sheed or Dyess at center.


Orlando yesterday, and Milwaukee today, did shoot well. But its not that either team is that good. The Pistons need better perimeter D. The kind they had in the 4th quarter with that unit out there.


That was an exciting finish, despite the loss. And despite Flip's coaching mistakes to start the game, like not playing Amir until the last 2 minutes of the first half, and only giving Afflalo such short minutes, he ended the game well. He brought Amir in to start the 4th, giving us a chance to win the game. And just maybe he has learned something. Amir is one fine player. Not playing him is not a good thing.

They should at least play AJ. This went from a really aggravating to a really entertaining game pretty quickly. I just wish Flip stayed awake long enough to realize what was going on. I don't know why he is so reluctant to put AJ in when they're struggling to score. What is his aversion to easy buckets?

There was a lot of scared Flip tonight. Would the world end if he played CB, Stuckey and Rip together? Why keep trotting out the same unproductive unit time after time?

Is there a team out there besides the Washington Generals that runs worse plays out of timeouts? Did anyone else enjoy Hayes' hook shot from the 3 point line out of one timeout as much as I did? Aside from putting the play up on the Jumbotron, could their last shot have been any more obvious?

I don't really care that they lost or played poorly again. It is a long season and these things happen. It is how they lose that gets me. SA gets Thomas, DET stands pat. Suns get Shaq, DET stands pat. Lakers get Gasol, DET stands pat. DAL gets Kidd, DET...........

Part of the problem may be the trade deadline. Hayes may be getting his last chances to show something.

I know I said I wouldn't watch, but I couldn't help myself..although I only caught the tail end of the third up to the end of the game. I'm not sure what's up, but our bench collectively sucked when they first came in. The starters' lack of D to start was a pain to watch as well.

Stuckey hasn't played well these last 2 games. He seems to be forcing a bit, or maybe he's just in a bit of a post-break slump. I dunno. Jarvis actually shot fairly well, going 2-4. Amir, though, played fairly well down the stretch with the starters, though and I was shocked to even see him in the fourth in this one. But we needed his energy and hustle, and he did very well providing that, grabbing 6 boards in 14 minutes..and zero fouls.

The starters didn't play with much energy or hustle. Tay in particular was a step slow most of the night, and Sheed didn't get serious until the last 5 minutes.

A coach can only do so much, when people are missing shots, and running sets where Rip sets up for corner 3s, but doesnt see the ball.

This game was lost on defensive effort. There was none.

Believe it or not the Pistons had a chance to tie the game with 7.6 seconds left, but Sheed who had hit 4 straight 3 balls missed a 3 ball attempt from the right. ( He is better when he shoots them from the top of the circle IMO)

The Pistons were down by as many as 21 or so points, but Billups kept then within shouting difference scoring at will in the third....unfortunately our defense didn't come alive until the 4th qtr and we proably needed 3 more mins to pull this one out.

To many TO's and missed shots by our front court in the first half spelled doom and the bench was once again a no show collectively, but Amir did play well down the stretch with the starters and only a missed contested dunk blemishing his +13.

Stuckey had four assists but was 0-5 form the field forcing layups that could not find the hoop. Not sure what the deal is with Rip...8 shots tonight and only 6 last night..I thought he was our leading scorer??

The real problem since the break is our defense. back to back nights of giving up 103 points...including giving up 80+ at the end of the third in both?? Can't win many games giving 100 points.

Meaningless stats of the night
Pistons now 6-9 when allowing the opponent to score over 100 points
This is the first loss this season to a divsional foe other than the Bulls. We were 7-0 vs the Cavs, Pacers and Bucs
Took Pistons 3 losses to get to 30 wins, so maybe it takes 3 losses before they can notch # 40

Thanks for the recap. I want to challenge the word "unfortunately". Kind of sounds like luck? Hey, there was no rule at all preventing Flip from playing Amir earlier in the game. We did not just all the sudden get lucky in the 4th. We took out our worst defender among our starters and replaced him with a darn good defender. Its a simple choice, not luck. This is not to say Dyess is not a good player. He is a fine backup center. Just not, in any way, a very good starting power forward. Not in this league where the opposing power forwards are simply quicker than him.

The starters didn't play with much energy or hustle. Tay in particular was a step slow most of the night, and Sheed didn't get serious until the last 5 minutes.

A coach can only do so much, when people are missing shots, and running sets where Rip sets up for corner 3s, but doesnt see the ball.

This game was lost on defensive effort. There was none.

So you are saying that AJ gave no defensive effort?

Very interesting.

:hoops:

So you are saying that AJ gave no defensive effort?

Very interesting.
Care to quote the passage where I wrote that?

I stopped watching in the 2nd qtr , so i dont even know what the final score is/was. But I know this:

1. flip will NOT lead this team to the 'FINALS". Watch and see. I'm just waiting for the inevitable.

2. CHAUNCEY will not lead this team back to the finals. He hasnt dived for a loose ball ball since The new jersey series 5 years ago.

3. Tay needs to go and McDyess and J-max can go with him. We need a shakeup . Id trade all 3 for Artest, the devil , right now.:pound:

I know this league...and no one is scared of us ...right now, anyway

This game was lost on defensive effort. There was none.

None is none

Means nobody

no how

None is none

The starters didn't play with much energy or hustle. Tay in particular was a step slow most of the night, and Sheed didn't get serious until the last 5 minutes.

A coach can only do so much, when people are missing shots, and running sets where Rip sets up for corner 3s, but doesnt see the ball.

This game was lost on defensive effort. There was none.

At least not until the 4th quarter. Who on the Piston team is an outstanding defender other than Sheed? Who in the backcourt? Rip perhaps, Tay has been looking overrated the past couple of years. Billups has his faults with the quicker guards.

Maybe its time to get Hunter back into the rotation. He used to turn games around for us on nights like this, maybe he still can.

None is none

Means nobody

no how

None is none
Context. I shouldn't have to explain context to you Buddhafriend. :rolleyes:
The starters didn't play with much energy or hustle.

I think (I hope) that is what this is leading up to. We're in our 3rd season of the inmates running the asylum, and while losing is never pretty, the lack of hustle, focus and execution is starting to really bother me.

Maybe it's time to invest in a coach who doesn't let the inmates run the asylum :stirthepot:

Somehow i don't think Flip's strategy of threatening the starters with more PT when they're ineffective is working.

At least not until the 4th quarter. Who on the Piston team is an outstanding defender other than Sheed? Who in the backcourt? Rip perhaps, Tay has been looking overrated the past couple of years. Billups has his faults with the quicker guards.

Maybe its time to get Hunter back into the rotation. He used to turn games around for us on nights like this, maybe he still can.

Arron Afflalo, Amir Johnson

If anything, the 4th qtr was the best they have played since they went on vacation. Since it appears that no 11th hour trade is forthcoming, maybe an internal trade is needed with swapping Amir and Dyess from the bench to starter and vis-a-versa.

Dice might be better off playing with second unit at this point as he is extending to much energy starting and just doesn't have it in the second half.

Context. I shouldn't have to explain context to you Buddhafriend. :rolleyes:

So you only talk about the starters in your posts.

Very interesting.

:hoops:

So you only talk about the starters in your posts.

Very interesting.
Oh great, now you're BuddhaFREUD. Like we don't have enough personalities to deal with around here. :pound:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3353/freudke3.gif

Lee, how many times it has to be said to you: Amir can't play SF, AJ has said when team tried him at SF, he hated it . Nuff said.

It's easiest target to blame coach for loss, but IMO these 2 losses are starting 5 's fault. And starters have bigger responsibility: it's their job to make up for bench poor play but it is not bench's job to "repair" mess what starters have created.

Arron Afflalo, Amir Johnson

Not yet. They can be but not yet.

I stopped watching in the 2nd qtr , so i dont even know what the final score is/was. But I know this:

1. flip will NOT lead this team to the 'FINALS". Watch and see. I'm just waiting for the inevitable.

2. CHAUNCEY will not lead this team back to the finals. He hasnt dived for a loose ball ball since The new jersey series 5 years ago.

3. Tay needs to go and McDyess and J-max can go with him. We need a shakeup . Id trade all 3 for Artest, the devil , right now.:pound:

I know this league...and no one is scared of us ...right now, anyway

dont let the 4th fool ya..we lost and Flip couldnt do a thing about it.

Oh great, now you're BuddhaFREUD. Like we don't have enough personalities to deal with around here. :pound:



I think the both of you are influenced by Stern and his minions.

The starters didn't play with much energy or hustle. Tay in particular was a step slow most of the night, and Sheed didn't get serious until the last 5 minutes.

A coach can only do so much, when people are missing shots, and running sets where Rip sets up for corner 3s, but doesnt see the ball.

This game was lost on defensive effort. There was none.

If I wanted to be clear referring only to starters then in the 2nd last sentence I would have written

The game was lost due to lack of defensive effort by the starters.

That is why I got confused because I would not assume that my statement in the first sentence would be understood to apply for the the whole post.

Just a difference in style.

:hoops:

I think the both of you are influenced by Stern and his minions.

I'll drink to that.

:hoops:

If I wanted to be clear referring only to starters then in the 2nd last sentence I would have written

The game was lost due to lack of defensive effort by the starters.

That is why I got confused because I would not assume that my statement in the first sentence would be understood to apply for the the whole post.

Just a difference in style.
Your second ice-cube is as lonely as a polar bear.

Need more gas, I got a match for the next fire for this game.

Knowing Flip, we won't see that line-up that closed the 4th ever again. This was the second straight game where it was Amir's spot to sub but DET was down double figures and Flip let him rot. The good news is that while the rout was on Flip was almost able to finish his book Coaching Scared - 13 Years of Playoff Flops (And I still got a job!)

Not yet. They can be but not yet.

Afflalo is already a better perimeter defender than everyone on our team outside of LH.

What Amir lacks in fundamentals, he makes up for in shot-blocking and quickness. Do you see how quick he's able to double-team/trap and then race back to his man? Our rotations are beautiful when he's in. Sheed also helps cover up any mistakes he might make, and i think Sheed likes him playing with him. He looks more energized.

Most games where Afflalo gets PT, our defense looks better, then he inexplicably gets very little PT, and we are getting lit up by players again.

They're energetic, they hustle, and they play hard. Defense is mostly about effort anyway. I'm not saying they are a cure-all, but it's pretty obvious they help considerably.

Afflalo is already a better perimeter defender than everyone on our team outside of LH.

What Amir lacks in fundamentals, he makes up for in shot-blocking and quickness. Do you see how quick he's able to double-team/trap and then race back to his man? Our rotations are beautiful when he's in. Sheed also helps cover up any mistakes he might make, and i think Sheed likes him playing with him. He looks more energized.

Most games where Afflalo gets PT, our defense looks better, then he inexplicably gets very little PT, and we are getting lit up by players again.

They're energetic, they hustle, and they play hard. Defense is mostly about effort anyway. I'm not saying they are a cure-all, but it's pretty obvious they help considerably.

Very true but they have not been tested yet. They also are not going to get the same calls a vet would in the post-season, thats just a fact of the NBA. Besides I am not sure going into the post-season with 2 rookies and Amir is going to be enough experience in the reserve unit.

I think the last two games might be Flip experimenting with making Tayshaun take a higher % of the shots...this could pay dividends in the future.

It's february, guys! Just chill! Stuckey and AJ are in the regular rotation and that won't change, we're not making any trades, we need this kind of experimentation.

That said I hated watching this game and it was ugly as sin. Haha.

Your second ice-cube is as lonely as a polar bear.

http://www.alaskastock.com/pr/662847651/Alaskastock_125GR_EQ0072D001.jpg

:hoops:

Very true but they have not been tested yet. They also are not going to get the same calls a vet would in the post-season, thats just a fact of the NBA. Besides I am not sure going into the post-season with 2 rookies and Amir is going to be enough experience in the reserve unit.

It seems to me that if Flipper were to start AJ from now on by the time the playoffs get here he will get some respect and if he doesn't then just bring in Dyess off of the bench.

Will he get more fouls called on him as a starter like Maxey did?

We won't know until it happens.

Flipper has repeatedly said that he will give AJ all that he can handle. So we shall see if Flipper starts to think that AJ can handle more.

He could have put Dyess or Maxey in during the 4th at crunch time but he chose to leave AJ in and we almost pulled it out.

Another small step forward for AJ and the Pistons.

:hoops:

I'll say it again, Sheed needs a garbage man.

Amir + Sheed is an awesome combo. Amir with space in the paint is a monster. Sheed is obviously not going in there this year, so why not just permanantly pair him up with the new JYD?

And the bench needs a tough vet like Dyess. And Dyess needs a little less minutes than the starters.


It's pretty obvious at this point that Flip doesn't need to find time for AJ to develop him... He needs to play him because he dramatically increases our odds of winning basketball games.


I'm considering this game a positive because it further highlights that fact to Flip.


One little nit. That D that Afflalo was putting on Redd was awesome. Not sure why Flip didn't want to see more of that.

Amir + Sheed is an awesome combo. Amir with space in the paint is a monster. Sheed is obviously not going in there this year, so why not just permanantly pair him up with the new JYD?


It seems to me that Sheed really likes playing with AJ. Not that he doesn't like playing with the other guys, but Sheed is mentoring AJ, so it is like a teacher playing on the court with his student and each one helping the other.

:hoops:

And, where is Hermann? Why not experiment with him in the games to see if he's more consistent/productive than Hayes? :stirthepot:

I'll say it again, Sheed needs a garbage man.

Amir + Sheed is an awesome combo. Amir with space in the paint is a monster. Sheed is obviously not going in there this year, so why not just permanantly pair him up with the new JYD?

And the bench needs a tough vet like Dyess. And Dyess needs a little less minutes than the starters.


It's pretty obvious at this point that Flip doesn't need to find time for AJ to develop him... He needs to play him because he dramatically increases our odds of winning basketball games.


I'm considering this game a positive because it further highlights that fact to Flip.


One little nit. That D that Afflalo was putting on Redd was awesome. Not sure why Flip didn't want to see more of that.

I guess you're a bigger fan of the bench than Flip. Reading this forum... it doesn't seem like you are alone.

It seems to me that if Flipper were to start AJ from now on by the time the playoffs get here he will get some respect and if he doesn't then just bring in Dyess off of the bench.

Will he get more fouls called on him as a starter like Maxey did?

We won't know until it happens.

Flipper has repeatedly said that he will give AJ all that he can handle. So we shall see if Flipper starts to think that AJ can handle more.

He could have put Dyess or Maxey in during the 4th at crunch time but he chose to leave AJ in and we almost pulled it out.

Another small step forward for AJ and the Pistons.

:hoops:

I was thinking more along the lines of Hunter for Afflalo, unless Hunter can play PF?

Hermann is a bum. I've watched this guy, he's just like Hayes, Mo Evans, etc. There is no magical upside. You get the feeling that he's only as good as he is because he is experienced, not because he has incredible physical gifts or latent talent.

yah i'm not high on herrmann at all either. he's slow. i went out last night so i only saw the start of the game, but how can you call this a coaching loss? it's very very obvious that our starters came back from break but are still on vacation. lazy offense, TERRIBLE defense. there's no effort.

i'm not really worried about that. we could probably lose every game the rest of the year and make the playoffs. what i'm worried about is developing the bench, letting them play through mistakes, and giving them crunch time minutes. stuckey struggled last night against a team i thought he'd be great against. big deal, he got time. amir was trusted down the stretch and flip kept him in the game, and he played well AND got praise from his teammates for it. i think flip will look at the stats and see the + numbers for AJ and give him more time.

i'll watch the 4th quarter tonight, but yeah. the only big improvement i could see the team making is a hayes/herrmann/murray/brezec for miller/artest deal, where he could take the backup 2/3 minutes. as much as i like afflalo's defense, i don't think he's ready yet and his offense isn't there.

Anyone think it is too much to ask why none of the DET writers can ask Flip why he waited so long to bring Amir into the game? What was his rational for altering his rotation(?) the last 2 games to exclude this guy?

Why, if as Flip says there is no one on the second unit who can carry the group by itself, does he seem to go out his way to only play them together?

Why doesn't the league do something to maintain the integrity of the game when coaches are obviously tanking by calling plays out of timeouts that lead to baskets instead of shot clock violations and/or air balls?

Ernie is getting angry!!! It is an absolute shame if DET can pilfer the dregs of the L to shore up their squad. It has nothing to do with these 2 losses, but I think this is a H-U-G-E mistake. Happy profits, I guess.

Hermann is a bum. I've watched this guy, he's just like Hayes, Mo Evans, etc. There is no magical upside. You get the feeling that he's only as good as he is because he is experienced, not because he has incredible physical gifts or latent talent.

Is there some way we get this guy without having to draft him? He is a small forward listed at 6'8" and 225, all muscle. Lebron type body at the #3.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080219/capt.d28702addc2944e29ea301b8e443a061.xavier_rhode _island_basketball_rijg103.jpg

:hoops:

Anyone think it is too much to ask why none of the DET writers can ask Flip why he waited so long to bring Amir into the game? What was his rational for altering his rotation(?) the last 2 games to exclude this guy?

Why, if as Flip says there is no one on the second unit who can carry the group by itself, does he seem to go out his way to only play them together?

Why doesn't the league do something to maintain the integrity of the game when coaches are obviously tanking by calling plays out of timeouts that lead to baskets instead of shot clock violations and/or air balls?

Ernie is getting angry!!! It is an absolute shame if DET can pilfer the dregs of the L to shore up their squad. It has nothing to do with these 2 losses, but I think this is a H-U-G-E mistake. Happy profits, I guess.

At current situation anger is OK, but you still should check facts: Amir actually has lately played more minutes per game than Maxi or Hayes. So it is a direct opposite of excluding.

Second unit has some growing pains: seems that Flip wants to develope them as self reliable group.Tougher path but maybe bigger prize.

At current situation anger is OK, but you still should check facts: Amir actually has lately played more minutes per game than Maxi or Hayes. So it is a direct opposite of excluding.

Second unit has some growing pains: seems that Flip wants to develope them as self reliable group.Tougher path but maybe bigger prize.

Other than lack of more than one 3 point shooter the second unit lacks a real go to guy. Even though Hayes can get hot he is not really a go to guy.

If however, this unit stays together with or without Hayes I believe that a go to guy will be evolve in the unit.

Though I would prefer as some others would to see AJ moved to the first unit, which would change the nature of the 2nd unit. I think with Dyess and Hayes on the second unit it will add some scoring to that unit, at least for the rest of this year.

:hoops:

Though I would prefer as some others would to see AJ moved to the first unit, which would change the nature of the 2nd unit. I think with Dyess and Hayes on the second unit it will add some scoring to that unit, at least for the rest of this year.
We don't agree on much but I strongly agree with that, especially seeing how well Amir plays with the starters and helps up the tempo with his TO causing D and good quick outlets.

Plus Dyess is so good off the bench and could still be a "closer" if need be, like last season.

I think we are going to regret not making a move at the deadline.

Only problem: who's gonna handle bigger and stronger starting C's? Both AJ and Sheed would get 2 quick fouls both and you can guess the rest.

Only problem: who's gonna handle bigger and stronger starting C's? Both AJ and Sheed would get 2 quick fouls both and you can guess the rest.
That is not how it goes. You put two good solid defenders in together and they help each other out, resulting in less fouls, not more. Right now, Dyess is the problem. He is of no help in most situations, forcing the other four players to try and do to much. Especially Sheed.