Seattle March 4 7:30 PM

tv: tv20

Alright, time to get the next game qued up. Looks like we all enjoyed the last win and here is a good opportunity for another as the 16-43 Sonics roll into town hoping to impove on their 6-22 road record.

Notable Sonic players are of course Kevin Durant who avgs almost 20 PPG with a little over 4 boards 2.3 assists. The rebonding fiend Nick Collison ( one of my fantasy league staples ) and Chris Wilcox. Not sure if Jeff Green is considered notable yet or not. But what does it really matter as long as the Pistons come to play.

Heard on the radio this evening that Billups will be back for this one.

Switch roles in this one. Have the reserves start the game and then bring in the starters towards the end of the first. Base rest of the game's playing time on how well the reserves did at the start.

I went to the Sonics vs. Nuggets game here in town a couple of weeks ago. Denver won by 41, but the score doesn't really reflect how truly terrible the Sonics are.

Wilcox will get his IF Sheed is lazy. Otherwise, I don't see any position that the Pistons don't completely dominate.

Sheed should play 5 min into the game and then play Amir/Jmax rest of the way.:):hoops:

Sheed should play 5 min into the game and then play Amir/Jmax rest of the way.:):hoops:

What about Theo? Has he officially sign on as a Piston yet?

Sheed and Dyess should play 35 mins combined in the game and then play Amir/Jmax/Hermann's Hermits rest of the way.:):hoops:

Edit for accuracy.

Did anyone ever hear what Chauncey's "personal matters" were? I suppose it was personal....

Did anyone ever hear what Chauncey's "personal matters" were? I suppose it was personal....

Probably something family related. Usually if it is illness or death, the reason is revealed. But still, it could have been that. Or possibly something where someone got themselves into a bit of a jam personally, chemically, or legally.

No doubt the dude is also captain of his fam.

Edit for inaccuracy.

:nerd2:

Chat is open, I'll be joining y'all shortly!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Did anyone ever hear what Chauncey's "personal matters" were? I suppose it was personal....
u wanna hear some of 'my' personal matters?...:nerd2::eyebrows:

Kinda a drive by post since i'm going out, and will miss the rest of this game (thankfully).

This is what seperates Flip from good coaches. If your starters don't have it, SUB SOME OF THEM OUT early. Don't sit on the sidelines, twicth, and wait for the lead to balloon. If you need help defensively put in your energy, defensive players and vice versa.

He's so rigid, and uncreative. It's like a robot coaching the team who occassionally has a malfunction (sometimes good, sometimes bad).

u wanna hear some of 'my' personal matters?...:nerd2::eyebrows:


Not really, but you're welcome to share if it you feel the need.

Whew! Allowed a record 41 for the Sonics in the 1st and then shut down to 13 by the half. Good to see the Zoo working it and a couple of them finish the game. Looked like a "looking past" game for sure.

I loved that they went to Amir on the last meaningful possession.

Dixon looks good...

Odd win...the first quarter was probably the worst defensive period for the Pistons all year. They must not have gotten more than one, two stops at the most for the entire period. But the Sonics plummeted from 41 points in the first to 13 in the second, and it was only a one point game at halftime. Amir helped out early in the second quarter, and after he picked up 3 fouls, Stuckey turned it on and led the charge going into the half. Tay led the way with 24, and CB had 20. Rip got 18 thanks to 7-8 at the line, but he nearly shot the Pistons out of the game, 5-19 from the floor.

Sheed and especially Dice more or less took the game off, but JMax and Amir were terriffic. Flip left them in for most of the 4th quarter. They combined for 17 boards and 5 blocks, and they even went 7-10 on FTs between them. Flip also went to Dixon for 8 minutes in the second half to replace Rip's bricklaying. Maybe Flip read lpgrl's post during the game, since he played the bench guys for big minutes and had it pay off with a comeback win. Tay's minutes were a bit high at 39, but only two other guys played over 30.

Well Pistons play down to the competition and have to hold on an eek out a 3 pt victory over the supposedly over matched Sonics. Pistons defense didn't arrived from LA until the second qtr as the Sonice put up 41 in the first qtr, but then fail flat with only 13 in the second. I think I may have either said it in chat or thought that if the Pistons could keep them under 100, they could win this one.

The Pistons tried their darndest but could barely contain Wilcox and Watson in the first qtr and Rip ran out of gas trying to contain Durrant in crunch time. The Sonics so called big three combined for 63 points and their other first round pick Rookie Jeff Green also chipped in with 15 ponts. PJ is probably missing one vet that would make them respectable, but he refuses to get choked into taking Latrell Sprewell:)

Sheed and Dice were no shows and hopefully with their limited minutes they will be fresh tomorrow. AJ and Mx filled in great for them tonight. We needed every one of the points provided by Cb and Tay as Rip was way off especially in the second qtr when he decided he was going singlehandedly bring us back from the 13 point deficit. He missed about 5 shots in a row at one point not even thinking about passing off to an open TEAMmate....

Pistons got the 100pts for the automatic W and will need at least 95 for a W tomorrow vs the C's...

Anything but boring to watch this game. Seattle went up 15 as we could not stop them at all in the first quarter.


In contrast, Seattle was shut down in the 2nd quarter, especially the first half of it where they just scored 1 point. Similarly, the Pistons enjoyed about an 11-1 run early 4th. This was not all Amir Johnson. But people watching the game, many of them, had this to say about Amir - he continually was in the right place helping us out on defensive end. (While on the offensive end he did take quite a bit of attention to keep him off the offensive glass.) On that defense, Amir continually shadowed the ball, cutting down on options for the ball handler, and did with while never failing to get back to his own guy. (And only once failing to get back to play help out D near the basket when a Seattle player drove in. Amir is quick, lengthy, and as much as that, sharp in his decision making about where to be. Pretty darn good stuff from Amir tonight.


And yes, it did delight me no end to see them go to Amir on a pick and roll that he helped decide by patiently making his highly contested shot. He got a bit beat up for his effort, but he made the shot.


Maxiell also showed some people just how good he is, when not called upon to do it all by himself. Anyone watching the games lately knows what I am talking about here. Time after time, Maxiell comes in to play along side Dyess after Dyess is already worn out. In this game for instance, Dyess played the first 15 mintues, with Maxiell in there for the last 9 of those. Maxiell does not look so good under these circumstances. But later, paired with Sheed, and later still with Amir, Maxiell looked pretty darn awesome on D. Doing his role, just his role, very well. Jason also hit a couple of shots and made some free throws.


Dixon got into the game. Between Afflalo's 4 minutes and Dixon's 8, Rip did get some rest in this game. Normally, I would say it can't hurt to play a guy to see what he can do. But hey, I have watched Dixon play all season, so why have not some Piston scout taken the time to watch some film on the guy. Sure he is a decent backup point guard, but he is really nothing special. A streak shooter with decent but not exceptional defense. Afflalo should keep his minutes. His D is exceptional, and we really need more D played for Detroit.


Hayes only played in the first half. He gave Tay 9 minutes of rest, played decent D and hit a couple of shots inside. One sequence for him was quite impressive as he stripped a guy driving in on him, took the ball all the way down and got to the basket and put it in. He also scored on a cut to the basket that took some skill to finish. Not a bad game for him at all. I suppose if he had hit either of his outside shots to go with his other play he would have gotten some 2nd half minutes. But, me, I think Amir could play a bit of small forward; Tay should have gotten some rest in the 2nd half.


Rip did miss a lot of shots. But he gave us a lot of energy too, making Seattle work pretty hard to follow him around to stop him from easy buckets.


Billups hit a big 3 to give us an 8 point lead upon returning to the game midway thru the 4th quarter. He scored quite a bit in all. Yet Stuckey could be said to have outplayed him tonight. Stuckey put some serious defensive energy into that 2nd quarter, and was out there during our run to start the 4th also. Flip Saunders continues to give Stuckey all the time he needs of late to get ready for the playoffs. Good job Flip on that.


Tay played his usual fine game. Lots of points, lots of D. But playing the whole 2nd half when there is a game tomorrow night too is of questionable value.


Sheed hit a couple of shots, played fine D for much of the 2nd half along fine defensive players like Amir and JMAX.


Dyess was almost certainly the biggest minus player for us. He took some fairly useless outside shots. Other than that, he just kept better defenders off the floor by him being in the game.

Great recaps Lee and Sandhu!

Here's my quick thoughts:
Flip Saunders just showed backbone tonight by sticking with Amir and Maxiell down the stretch. It's not like I don't want to see Sheed and Dyess finish games, but it is really nice to know that Flip has the guts to stick with the younger players when the game is in serious doubt in the 4th quarter. Not only that, but he trusted Amir on a decisive possession with a pick and roll call.

And those guys really came through. The epitome was the fast break by Seattle where Tay (or Billups) bothered the initial shot. Amir hustled all the way down the court to bother the put back. Then Maxiell swatted the 2nd put back out of bounds. Extreme hustle and some good old fashion pride in not letting the other team score on their watch.

Just since I'm on the subject, this pattern of going on runs with Amir Johnson in the game is getting beyond the point of coincidence. After scoring 41 points in the first quarter, Seattle scored 1 point in almost 7 minutes with Amir in the game in the 2nd quarter. As soon as he left the game with his 3rd BS foul, Seattle scored 8 points in about 50 seconds. It's uncanny.

Still, to give credit to the guys who we take for granted, Tay had a great game and Chauncey had a spectacular game. CB- 20 points on only 9 shots. 8 free throws, 9 assists, and 5 steals! Also, his 4th quarter play was once again a thing of beauty. Hamilton turned an ugly night into a decent night by keeping at it. Unbelievably, Durant actually looked like he was bothering Rip with his defense.

The overall story of this game though was Flip Saunders. On the night before a big match up, he chose to limit the minutes of our bigs, give our youth a huge shot of confidence, and still keep the momentum with a win. Nice job.

Flip partially listened to me :)

I agree with most of the points above.

Good job sticking with Max/Amir when Sheed/Dice obviously partied too much the night before. Also Max really does look different next to Amir or Sheed. Dice is a fantastic rebounder, but his defense has been lacking for quite some time. If Theo ends up demanding rotation time, Dice should get his minutes cut. He is much more effective when he plays less.

I'm annoyed about Tay's min especially since we play BOS tommorrow. Note to Flip. THIS IS SEATTLE. We don't need Tay playing 38 min against Seattle. Hermann was again used at PF. I wonder if he'll ever be used at back-up SF. It's unlikely Tay gets major rest tommorrow, and if he does i fully expect PP to hang 25 on Hayes in 10 min.

Also, i knew after Juan Dixon's scoring outburts Flip would play him over Afflalo which is stupid b/c like stated above Afflalo's defense is exceptional. Dixon lost his man coming off a screen which led to a easy basket when Max tried to help, And then got picked off giving Watson a open look. He did force a travel while employing a trap with Billups, but mostly it looked like alot of activity with little result. Afflalo's got major height on him as well, better passing ability, and he's better at running the fastbreak. Afflalo can also shoot 1-3.

We'll see tommorrow who takes the back-up SG minutes. I don't think i want to see Dixon guarding Ray Allen.

Rip definately tried to win this by himself, but he did hit some clutch shots at the end (while simaltaneously getting burned on defense by KD).

Stuckey was effective. Amir was great. I expect a big game from Sheed tommorrow. Hopefully Flip plays the best suited players against BOS, and doesn't get conservative which is what lost our last game against them.

Just since I'm on the subject, this pattern of going on runs with Amir Johnson in the game is getting beyond the point of coincidence. After scoring 41 points in the first quarter, Seattle scored 1 point in almost 7 minutes with Amir in the game in the 2nd quarter. As soon as he left the game with his 3rd BS foul, Seattle scored 8 points in about 50 seconds. It's uncanny.

It really is. Amir is a one man defense.

Starters combined for a (-40), while the bench combined for a (+50) for the game. The starters truly took the game off and the bench won it for us. Chauncey passing to Amir on the last meaningful play, a play that was designed to go to Tay, speaks volumes about the wonderful coaching done by Flip this game. Kudos to him for giving more minutes to Max and Amir, than to Dyess and Sheed.

Tay played his usual fine game. Lots of points, lots of D. But playing the whole 2nd half when there is a game tomorrow night too is of questionable value.

I'm annoyed about Tay's min especially since we play BOS tommorrow. Note to Flip. THIS IS SEATTLE. We don't need Tay playing 38 min against Seattle.

39 minutes for Prince. If he were doing that every night I'd be right there with you, but if an NBA player can't play heavy minutes two nights in a row then something is wrong. I'm not sure the Pistons win last night without Prince in the entire second half.

And if you have a chance to win a game you have to take it, and last night that meant a frontline of Tay, Max, and Amir. Nice job by the coaching staff finding a combination that could put the game away. A win on the books is worth more than a slightly better chance of winning the next night.

If we were talking about prince playing extended mins every night we should be concerend but were talking about a couple games here and there. Overall prince is getting tons of rest... not only is he averaging 3 mins less a game, the amount of games in which he's playing 40 mins or more is down just an insane amount.


Here are the last 5 years of princes career (no 40 min games his rookie year)

3 reg season games of 40 plus mins no back to backs

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

19 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

11 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

If we were talking about prince playing extended mins every night we should be concerend but were talking about a couple games here and there. Overall prince is getting tons of rest... not only is he averaging 3 mins less a game, the amount of games in which he's playing 40 mins or more is down just an insane amount.


Here are the last 5 years of princes career (no 40 min games his rookie year)

3 reg season games of 40 plus mins no back to backs

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

19 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

11 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

It doesn't matter how much less he is playing when he is still being over(trained)played.


It is a legitimate concern and whether or not he is overtrained to the tune of 1 minute or 5, he will still reap the consequences sooner or later.

Flip can get what Tayshaun brings from Jarvis or hermann, he just needs to play them. One game here or there in the loss column is not as important as a fresh Tayshaun come payoff time.

To continue my previous post.... all our starters... our guards to a greater extent are not being pushed beyond the limit day in and day out has gone down greatly.... that magic 40 min in a game is really becoming a none issue and we should be fresh come play off time. found this even more interesting then the avg min per game.. our record is similar to 2 years ago when we were going for wins every night but were doing it with little to no over use of starters this time.

Rip

08 7 games 0 b/b
07 23 games 1 b/b
06 19 games 0 b/b
05 35 games 6 b/b
04 20 game 3 b/b

Bill

08 4 games 1 b/b
07 14 games 1 b/b
06 17 games 0 b/b
05 16 games 0 b/b
04 12 games 3 b/b

Rasheed

08 3 games 0 b/b
07 9 games 0 b/b
06 16 games 0 b/b
05 13 games 0 b/b
04 21(2) games 0 b/b (games with us)

starting center

08 0 games 0 b/b
07 not going to sort out who was the starting center per game sorry
06 9 games 1 b/b
05 17 games 3 b/b
04 31 games 4 b/b

If we were talking about prince playing extended mins every night we should be concerend but were talking about a couple games here and there. Overall prince is getting tons of rest... not only is he averaging 3 mins less a game, the amount of games in which he's playing 40 mins or more is down just an insane amount.


Here are the last 5 years of princes career (no 40 min games his rookie year)

3 reg season games of 40 plus mins no back to backs

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

19 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

24 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 3 sets of back to back

11 reg season games of 40 plus mins including 1 set of back to back

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2323/2280067992_15333050d0_o.jpg

It doesn't matter how much less he is playing when he is still being over(trained)played.


It is a legitimate concern and whether or not he is overtrained to the tune of 1 minute or 5, he will still reap the consequences sooner or later.

Flip can get what Tayshaun brings from Jarvis or hermann, he just needs to play them. One game here or there in the loss column is not as important as a fresh Tayshaun come payoff time.

In what dimension? Tay shoots as well as either one and finishes better than either and is probably a better defender than both combined. Add in PG skills...

Starters combined for a (-40), while the bench combined for a (+50) for the game. The starters truly took the game off and the bench won it for us. Chauncey passing to Amir on the last meaningful play, a play that was designed to go to Tay, speaks volumes about the wonderful coaching done by Flip this game. Kudos to him for giving more minutes to Max and Amir, than to Dyess and Sheed.

Is there any video of that play by Amir? I missed that tending to my toddler.

Nevermind found it on nba.com...

Nice, they apparently were using that game as a scrimmage.

Good job round.

I don't mind seeing Tay get those minutes when he is actually playing well. That was fun to watch. Besides, he had those energy players in there doing all the dirty work.

Tay has been really aggressive and active on the offensive end lately. Nice to see.

i don't think tay got overplayed. he was playing well and we needed him. 39 mins one night isn't going to hurt.

this was a great game. amir is doing all of the little things to help the team out - keeping numerous balls alive, playing solid defense...you just never think to yourself 'wow amir messed up that play.' when he first came back you could tell he wasn't using his athleticism because of the injury, but now all bets are off. he's stronger than he looks and plays solid defense, doesn't get caught out of position...just solid all around. when he comes into games we lock the opponent down and go on runs...and we're going to need this in the playoffs when our offense dries up.

afflalo played great for his 4 minutes - made a smart pass to chauncey when he could've forced a shot, and the next play drove for a shot whe he could've kicked it back out. both were the right decision. maxiell looks to be getting his legs back, stuckey continues to gain experience, and dixon looks plenty serviceable. we are now at a point where i'd be comfortable with any of our 15 players on the floor...and i don't think there's another team in the league you could say that about.

I disagree with those that say playing AJ & Max at the end of the game was some gutsy move by Flip. To me it is just the other side of the coin. Heads = starters, tails = bench. It is all or nothing with Flip. He still hasn't shown that he can rotate guys in & out while playing everyone. I was glad that he got over his AJ/Max combo phobia.

For those lamenting the fact that Dixon is playing over AA, I wouldn't worry. It is only temporary. Flip is cleverly working towards not playing him by using him at the 2. He looks like a little kid out there. The chances of him succeeding there are minimal. It is pretty clear that Flip will not play him at the point.

The same goes for Herrrrrman. If Flip used him at the 3 and 4, he might have to work to play him. If he uses him solely as a 4 then he is behind too many guys to get PT and it is bad luck that he can't play. Plus he got 35 seconds last night and put up zeroes!

Agree that this was a perfect game to get everyone in the 1st by giving the clearly listless starters an early rest. I ain't mad at the starters, lulls like this happen.

Durant reminded me a little of early LeBron, G2 05 semi-final LeBron. He played into DET's hands by staying outside. When the game was pretty much over, he threw caution to the wind and drove. DET was helpless to stop him.

Stuckey's best game in a while.

In what dimension? Tay shoots as well as either one and finishes better than either and is probably a better defender than both combined. Add in PG skills...

Why? Because of "the block"?

He has been part of the problem when it comes to Detroit being one of the worst in the league at limiting dribble penetration, he has never been part of the solution, no matter how many times Ben and Rasheed made guys Tay has guarded think twice about driving the lane.

And point guard skills? Please.When Tayshaun can bring it up against moderate pressure without turning his back to the defenders to protect the ball....we'll talk. That's one habit LB could never discourage Tay from sticking to.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2323/2280067992_15333050d0_o.jpg


Why live in the far distant past? If we were going back to the most recent playoffs we would have to put Tay in the background with his arms over his head....running away.

Then and only then would we be summing up that matchup truthfully.

I disagree with those that say playing AJ & Max at the end of the game was some gutsy move by Flip. To me it is just the other side of the coin. Heads = starters, tails = bench. It is all or nothing with Flip. He still hasn't shown that he can rotate guys in & out while playing everyone. I was glad that he got over his AJ/Max combo phobia.

What? This doesn't make sense to me. The team was way more effective with AJ and Max out there last night then with either Sheed or Dice (or both) on the floor, so Flip stuck with what was working after finding the right combo, which is pretty much what we've always criticized him for NOT doing. How can that be fairly characterized as "just the other side of the coin"? Was he supposed to shuttle Sheed and Dice back in just to keep things fresh?

The same goes for Herrrrrman. If Flip used him at the 3 and 4, he might have to work to play him. If he uses him solely as a 4 then he is behind too many guys to get PT and it is bad luck that he can't play. Plus he got 35 seconds last night and put up zeroes!

Did you notice that Flip put him in on defense and then subbed Jarvis back in when we got the ball back?

we are now at a point where i'd be comfortable with any of our 15 players on the floor...and i don't think there's another team in the league you could say that about.

I was thinking that too, except I can't really include Lindsey or Samb. They may do well or they may not, but I'd be hesitant to put them in a real game. I know Lindsey won't make a fool of himself, but he gambles on defense, sucks on O, and has a lot of rust right now. Samb could possibly make of a fool of himself or he could block 5 shots. We haven't seen enough to know for sure.

One other thing. This was in reference to Flip Saunders' gameplan:
P.J. Carlesimo tried to explain how the Sonics squandered a 15-point lead, but the grease board inside the Detroit Pistons locker room told the story behind Seattle's 100-97 defeat on Tuesday night.

In bold red, the final line on the scouting report read: "Make Ridnour a scorer."


That is why I don't like the concept of having a "pure" point guard who doesn't score. Good teams will cheat off of him and take away the passing. Flip's strategy was very good in this respect and I'm pleased to know that he actually details a strategy for the bench to have success too.

What? This doesn't make sense to me. The team was way more effective with AJ and Max out there last night then with either Sheed or Dice (or both) on the floor, so Flip stuck with what was working after finding the right combo, which is pretty much what we've always criticized him for NOT doing. How can that be fairly characterized as "just the other side of the coin"? Was he supposed to shuttle Sheed and Dice back in just to keep things fresh?

I think the criticisms of Flip is that he always went back to the starters regardless of if the bench played well. Yes, AJ and Max did well last night. To me though, Flip leaves people out who are going well for too long like it will never end. They can all play.

Why? Because of "the block"?

He has been part of the problem when it comes to Detroit being one of the worst in the league at limiting dribble penetration, he has never been part of the solution, no matter how many times Ben and Rasheed made guys Tay has guarded think twice about driving the lane.

And point guard skills? Please.When Tayshaun can bring it up against moderate pressure without turning his back to the defenders to protect the ball....we'll talk. That's one habit LB could never discourage Tay from sticking to.

I guess Mark Jackson was a horrible PG then... Magic did that quite a bit as well


Getting fairly irate with you at this point. You are saying he isn't a vastly superior defender than Hermann who moves laterally like a 4, and Hayes who is a god awful defender.

Damn I hope this is a joke.


Is that just as much because C$ is slower than most PG's and if you have one iota of strength you can body Rip off you and get to the rack at will?

I think the criticisms of Flip is that he always went back to the starters regardless of if the bench played well. Yes, AJ and Max did well last night. To me though, Flip leaves people out who are going well for too long like it will never end. They can all play.

Well, I still can't quite figure out how your complaint applies to last night's game. Flip left AJ and Max on the floor for (I think) most of the 4th quarter, and definitely the entire stretch run of the game. And yes, it did end: when the final buzzer sounded and the Pistons won, thanks in large part to crucial plays by both of those guys in crunch time. You don't think that was a case of leaving people out there who are going well for too long...do you?

Why live in the far distant past? If we were going back to the most recent playoffs we would have to put Tay in the background with his arms over his head....running away.

Then and only then would we be summing up that matchup truthfully.
YouTube - Tayshaun Prince 360 by LeBron and then Dunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4swNusqH1I)

I guess Mark Jackson was a horrible PG then... Magic did that quite a bit as well


They never did it because they were subpar ballhandlers. Tayshaun is doing it because he is. This assessment came straight from the mouth of Larry Brown.





Getting fairly irate with you at this point.


Don't make it personal then. Worry about my posts, not me. :)




Is that just as much because C$ is slower than most PG's just as Tay is slower and less athletic than most of the uber athletic SF's in the league... and if you have one iota of strength you can body RipTayshaun off you and get to the rack at will? and Prince is Ronnie Coleman? He isn't as strong for his position as Chauncey or as quick as Rip. If anything he is the bastardized epitome of both of their greatest weaknesses. Thats just a horrible, horrible point to try to make for Prince.

YouTube - Tayshaun Prince 360 by LeBron and then Dunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4swNusqH1I)


That mattered so much more than this didn't it? (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6QwkQbk9TG0)

Well, I still can't quite figure out how your complaint applies to last night's game. Flip left AJ and Max on the floor for (I think) most of the 4th quarter, and definitely the entire stretch run of the game. And yes, it did end: when the final buzzer sounded and the Pistons won, thanks in large part to crucial plays by both of those guys in crunch time. You don't think that was a case of leaving people out there who are going well for too long...do you?


Some people like to complain about Saunders irregardless of what he does.....or should I make that Coach of the Month Saunders....

NBA.com: Detroit’s Saunders, Houston’s Adelman Named Coaches of the Month (http://www.nba.com/news/coach_080803.html)

Actually, the Flipster has won this award many times. Here are a couple:

PISTONS: Flip Saunders Named NBA Eastern Conference Coach of the Month (http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/saunders_080102.html)

PISTONS: Chauncey Billups and Flip Saunders Named Eastern Conference Player and Coach of the Month (http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/february_awards_070301.html)

PISTONS: Detroit’s Flip Saunders and San Antonio’s Gregg Popovich Named Eastern Conference and Western Conference Coaches of the Month. (http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/saunders_060103.html)

PISTONS: Detroit’s Larry Brown and Minnesota’s Flip Saunders Named Eastern and Western Conference Coaches of the Month for April (http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/brown_coachofmonth_040415.html)

TIMBERWOLVES: Saunders Named West Coach of the Month for February 2003 (http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/saunders_cotm_feb03.html)

TIMBERWOLVES: Saunders Named IBM Coach of the Month for January 2000 (http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/saunders_coachaward_000202.html)


Of course this award doesn't mean anything if the team doesn't win the ultimate prize.

Well, I still can't quite figure out how your complaint applies to last night's game. Flip left AJ and Max on the floor for (I think) most of the 4th quarter, and definitely the entire stretch run of the game. And yes, it did end: when the final buzzer sounded and the Pistons won, thanks in large part to crucial plays by both of those guys in crunch time. You don't think that was a case of leaving people out there who are going well for too long...do you?

No, I don't think he left them out too long. I am definitely not saying that they don't contribute to wins, aren't good or should not be closing out games. I am not talking about this one game. What I am saying about this game is it is the other side of coin in regards to the Utah game. Flip couldn't play AJ then because of reason A, B and C. This game he could only play Maxey and AJ. Why can't they all get consistent burn in a rotation? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't they keep the starters sharp and fresh while learning the strengths of the team?

Obviously, he's never going to be perfect. I'm just really thankful that all of the guys on the active roster are being used in real game situations. The starters are getting rest, the zoo crew is going bananas, the odd men out are Dixon and Fabio, and they are even contributing at random moments.

They never did it because they were subpar ballhandlers. Tayshaun is doing it because he is. This assessment came straight from the mouth of Larry Brown.





Don't make it personal then. Worry about my posts, not me. :)

pathetic. turn in your pistons card at the door and watch that screen door on the way out.

and this is from one of the most negative mofo's ever.


Tay struggles with LBJ, a guy that could end up being top 5 all time and has him by at least 40lbs. Very understandable to me. He's done damn good work on Kobe and TMac and DWade in the past, none of those guys are easy covers.

Yeah Rip has all of Tay's limitations, but without the psycho long arms, good leaping ability, giant mitts, and advantage of being a lefty for finishing and blocking shots.

PATHETIC, he sucks on D like Camby and Bowen suck on D.

No, I don't think he left them out too long. I am definitely not saying that they don't contribute to wins, aren't good or should not be closing out games. I am not talking about this one game. What I am saying about this game is it is the other side of coin in regards to the Utah game. Flip couldn't play AJ then because of reason A, B and C. This game he could only play Maxey and AJ. Why can't they all get consistent burn in a rotation? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't they keep the starters sharp and fresh while learning the strengths of the team?

I think I see what you mean a little better now. But I'd say that from my perspective, the Utah game was far more of a fluke than not, certainly when it comes to Amir's minutes since he first got into the rotation. That's his only DNP in the last 5 or 6 weeks, isn't it? He's gotten decent playing time in pretty much every other game since he first got into the rotation just before the all-star break.

Since late January or so, by and large, I think Flip has been very good about giving everyone PT and managing the starters' minutes vs the bench in a way that very closely mirrors what we all want--Amir's DNP in the Utah game was the one really glaring exception.

Here's my question. Has Flip given Amir any minutes this year...

Or has Amir taken them?

pathetic.whats pathetic? without clarification all I'm staring at is an incoherent one word sentence. turn in your pistons card at the door and watch that screen door on the way out. well....I guess if YOU said it ...then it has to be done.

and this is from one of the most negative mofo's ever. I disagree. You're not negative. :pound:


Tay struggles with LBJ, a guy that could end up being top 5 all time and has him by at least 40lbs. Very understandable to me. He's done damn good work on Kobe and TMac and DWade in the past, none of those guys are easy covers. Tay struggles with Richard Jefferson, Corey Magette, and any check in the league that is stronger or faster than him, unfortunately, the list is long and getting longer every year.

Yeah Rip has all of Tay's limitations, but without the psycho long arms,Is there a "psycho long arm" stat? good leaping ability,good not great, which is below average for his position giant mitts,he's also a chef? and advantage of being a lefty for finishing and blocking shots. WOW! That crazy .4 a game shotblocking average is blowing my mind there. Way to wow me with the stats!

PATHETIC,There's that word again.....he sucks on D like Camby and Bowen suck on D.Pretty sound argument for whoever said Tayshaun "sucks" on D. Who was that? You sure gave 'em heck!


By the way...'psycho long arms....good leaping ability....giant mitts' ...you just described Herrmann! Bring in Jarvis Hayes to shoot the ball and between the two of them they give you off the bench everything Tay can give you.

Plus Walter hustles a touch more than Tay. He brings more energy than Tay.

I never said Tay sucked on defense. I said Tay ran away. I questioned his toughness, not his ability.

By the way...'psycho long arms....good leaping ability....giant mitts' ...you just described Herrmann! Bring in Jarvis Hayes to shoot the ball and between the two of them they give you off the bench everything Tay can give you.

Plus Walter hustles a touch more than Tay. He brings more energy than Tay.

I never said Tay sucked on defense. I said Tay ran away. I questioned his toughness, not his ability.

unless they changed the rules since i checked last... but you can't have two players play one position at the same time (one for offense and one for def) if so why didn't we do that with ben all those years....

If either of hayes or herrmann were as good as you seem to think they would be starting somewhere and not on our bench today....

If either of hayes or herrmann were as good as you seem to think they would be starting somewhere and not on our bench today....

That's the old efficient market theory.

Here's my question. Has Flip given Amir any minutes this year...

Or has Amir taken them?

No, Flip hasn't given him any minutes, but he he has taken them at times......

Cirrus is playing the Devil's advocate :)

Here's my question. Has Flip given Amir any minutes this year...

Or has Amir taken them?
I would say it has not been a free trade, because Amir has given Flip a few wins... :stirthepot:
That's the old efficient market theory.
Yeah, Saunders is the Bernanke of rotations.
Cirrus is playing the Devil's advocate :)
A role he is a master at. Although, Tay did wimp out in a disgusting way last year.

unless they changed the rules since i checked last... but you can't have two players play one position at the same time (one for offense and one for def) if so why didn't we do that with ben all those years....

If either of hayes or herrmann were as good as you seem to think they would be starting somewhere and not on our bench today....

Coaches have been making offensive and defensive substitutions for years. It's not like either of those guys are completely one dimensional, however, depending on what was specifically needed at the time either one could fill in for Tayshaun while he got the less than 35 minutes a night that Joe mandated to Flip.


And as for the "just because they come off the bench means they're not good enough to start anywhere else" theory,


come on now. Plenty of starters on other teams would come off our bench. Plenty of guys on our bench would start on other teams. Two years ago folks were saying the same thing about McDyess.

we over played Prince in this game and he was ineffective for the first 3 qtrs on the Boston game.

we over played Prince in this game and he was ineffective for the first 3 qtrs on the Boston game.


A wise man once said: "Better to lose one game than to lose two."

By the way...'psycho long arms....good leaping ability....giant mitts' ...you just described Herrmann! Bring in Jarvis Hayes to shoot the ball and between the two of them they give you off the bench everything Tay can give you.

Plus Walter hustles a touch more than Tay. He brings more energy than Tay.

I never said Tay sucked on defense. I said Tay ran away. I questioned his toughness, not his ability.

might work well except you'd need those 2 guys to replace 1. Maybe we can play 6 on 5?

If you want to question his toughness I guess that's fine besides that I don't think he's ever missed a game and has shaken off some hellacious fouls from Shaq among others.

Your argument is a strong as "Chauncey is weak in late game scenarios".

Stats can be massaged to make them into whatever you need.

It may have described Hermann except he can hardly jump at all, and throws up finger rolls when he has no reason to.

I see no reason to question Tay's effort, let's see how much hustle the Hermannator would bring playing back to back 40 minute games. It's not that hard to look good vs other teams 3rd stringers in el garbage0 time.

Maybe he should grow coke nails like Rip and claw his way to being an 'adequate' defender?

I'm done with this and you, have the last word if you'd like.

I see this as asinine on your part, and yes pathetic.

A wise man once said: "Better to lose one game than to lose two."

I hope it was "The next coach of the Detroit Pistons.. Bill Laimbeer".

I see this as asinine on your part, and yes pathetic.


So pathetic I have this unrelenting need to resort to vulgarity to get my point across?

Might want to take the advice of your avi and look in the mirror.

Closing this thread. Seems to have run its course, its supposed to be about the Seattle game and not bickering between members.