At Boston March 5 7:30PM

tv: tv20

This is the rubber game in the 3 game seasonal matchup between the Easts leaders. Pistons won the last time in Boston on that controversial last sec foul call and the Celts won one at the Palace.

So this is it. Will a win challange the Celts confidence if both teams keep pace and play each other in the ECF? We will see. Be nice to get this one.

Injuries:
Detroit: none
Boston: Tony Allen SG - day to day

Garnett returned from his abdominal strain on Sunday and put up 20 points and 16 boards. The Celtics have not played since then.

ESPN Preview


Eight months after a blockbuster offseason made them instant NBA title contenders, the Boston Celtics (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) still are looking to improve. The Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) may be the Eastern Conference team with the best chance to stop them.
Newly acquired Sam Cassell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=1295) won't be on the court for the Celtics' matchup with the Pistons on Wednesday night, but he could play a large role come May when these teams have a chance to meet in the conference finals.

Acquiring Ray Allen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3080) and Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3007) in the offseason has helped give Boston (46-12) the league's best record, but it hopes to have picked up the last piece of a championship puzzle by signing Cassell to a contract Tuesday. The veteran point guard is headed to Baltimore to attend the funeral of a family member and won't be available Wednesday, but he is expected to be play Friday against Chicago.....

Detroit was beginning its worst stretch of the season when it last played Boston, losing 92-85 on Jan. 5. The Pistons went on to lose five of their next eight games.

Since then, however, Detroit has won 15 of its last 18 and has the league's second-best record. The Pistons came home from a 3-1 road trip to beat Seattle 100-97 on Tuesday night.

read more - ESPN - Detroit vs. Boston - Preview - March 05, 2008 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=280305002)

Let's AmirJohnson them instead of getting BigBaby-ized this time.

Both games were defensive battles with the losers scoring only 85 points each time. The Pistons IMO need to score at least 94 points to secure a victory and need to protect the paint so that there is no free chilli or layups/put backs. I am not worried that much about KG... just don't leave Ray open beyond the arc and don't let Pierce penetrate.

We can get few boards out of Dice, but when it is time to stop them Flip cannot be afraid to put in Amir and Max. Sheed needs to duplicate his performances in Phoenix and Los Angeles and play as this is a playoff game since that is supposedly what he is looking for.

I am not looking for the # 1 seed here. I just want the Celtics to worry for the rest of the season that we beat them on their parquet floor twice this season...:sssh:

... just don't leave Ray open beyond the arc and don't let Pierce penetrate.

Is that it? No problem! :MusicBigGrin:

I am not looking for the # 1 seed here. I just want the Celtics to worry for the rest of the season that we beat them on their parquet floor twice this season...:sssh:

Amen...... The seed in meaningless, as been stated we are 0-2 in the Conference Finals with the number one seed. But want to keep the pressure on them to keep winning and playing there big 3 big mins while we keep winning playing the young guns....

If Afflalo can guard Rey Allen for about 10 - 13 minutes... he will parallize him. Is that it? No problem! :MusicBigGrin:

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME IT'S NOT A NATIONAL GAME????? AGAIN!

This game means nothing to me. I'm ready for the playoffs. Pistons can win by 50 points and it will not keep them from getting swept in the EC finals if they don't "bring it" (as MadHatter likes to say)....

I will take nothing from any win or loss garnered here...

Let the playoffs begin!

I will take nothing from any win or loss garnered here...

Let the playoffs begin!
I am burnt out on the regular season already, but this is one game I am definitely looking forward to.

I hope we crush the Celts.

No injuries + a close loss would probably be best for the long run. Hate to say it.

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME IT'S NOT A NATIONAL GAME????? AGAIN!

I know this used to frustrate me too, got to get the league pass next year my friend. BTW, i feel like we have this year and the next to win a title with our young effective bench.

Personally I think living for the playoffs is what got this team in trouble in the past.

Play the games on the schedule and work your game plan. No need to shorted the rotation or treat it as a playoff game because its not a playoff game.

Win or lose this one should be pretty close and very entertaining. If there is one game you want to watch this has to be one of them.

Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Oh well, you can't win them all.

...heh....this team won't be winning any of them....(titles that is).

...heh....this team won't be winning any of them....(titles that is).

Thanks for the prediction, Mr. Gloom and Doom. I found a new avatar for you:

http://www.hollywoodstandups.com/images/Eeyore.jpeg

Tough play and tough loss. KG is certainly the difference in this game. But I don't see this as dominance, just experience for the Zoo and now we see how they will play us.

Great game.

Ugly loss at both ends, the first six minutes and the last five minutes. Down 10 halfway through the first quarter, the Pistons managed to get back to within 1 with about 5 minutes left in the game, but then a total collapse led to a 12-0 Boston run to clinch it. Bad shooting, horriffically poor officiating (both ways)...no fun to watch. A whopping 5 points off the bench was one of the reasons for the loss, as was giving up 20(!!) rebounds to Kendrick Perkins.

Celtics pretty much clinched the #1 seed with this win. They're 5 up on the Pistons in the loss column, and with the season series 2-1 in their favor, it's effectively a 6 game lead with the tiebreaker. Pistons have an easier schedule down the stretch, but making up 6 games is very far-fetched.

...heh....this team won't be winning any of them....(titles that is).

Humor - ha ha ha

I would not take much from this game. They are not going to have one team with 2 days rest at home facing a team who flew in on a back-back during a snow storm in the playoffs.

Pistons lost out on all the hustle plays, low FG%, lack of hops on the glass. I agree with Blaha in that you can't fault the effort just the circumstances. Plus Garnett killed us.

Celtics pretty much clinched the #1 seed with this win. They're 5 up on the Pistons in the loss column, and with the season series 2-1 in their favor, it's effectively a 6 game lead with the tiebreaker. Pistons have an easier schedule down the stretch, but making up 6 games is very far-fetched.


The #1 seed could end meaning who gets to play LeBron in the 2nd round. The Pistons might not even see Boston in the playoffs.

The #1 seed could end meaning who gets to play LeBron in the 2nd round. The Pistons might not even see Boston in the playoffs.

OMG, who would get the calls in that series??

OMG, who would get the calls in that series??

They all might foul out. Irregardless, if the Cavs and Celtics battle for 7 games and the Pistons take care of Orlando, maybe Detroit will be better prepared to advance further in the playoffs this season.

almost looked like they were mailing in the game so they'd lose and not have to worry about the #1 seed. rip's shot selection at the beginning was horrible, sheed took ten 3s and missed all 3 free throws, dice was non-existent, amir had an atrocious 1st half, dixon missed some open looks, we couldn't hit free throws early...just ugly all-around.

we shot 36% for the game and never even attempted to run a play. it was all isolation...only 16 assists.

i think maxiell's missed dunk early in the game signified what kind of night it was going to be. this didn't tell us much for the playoffs though. the bench got some good experience in a tough environment and amir had a much better 2nd half after settling down.

I noticed a DNP for AA. is he injured?

I noticed a DNP for AA. is he injured?

Perhaps Dixon is the 4th guard for now?

Ugly game. Just ugly. But, as much as I hate losing, I don't really mind this one. We played 10 people for this game. That's a good thing. And, Boston can have the number 1 seed and a date with Lebron in the second round. I quite like having the 2 seed. I just need to stay away from BSPN for a while.

Looks like Dixon got himself some PT for his offense. But we probably needed Afflalo's D too. I'd like to see Stuckey make better decisions with the ball, and the team has to do a better job of maintaining composure. Only bright spot for the bench was Amir's play in the second half after an bad first half. We also need to rebound better. And Sheed needs to cut down on the 3's.

Despite the Pistons poor shooting in the first half...this game was lost in the opening minutes of the 4th qtr and the last 5 mins of the 4th qtr.

After Prince tied the game at 69 with 10:50 left in the game, neither team scored until KG hit one of two FT's at the 9:05 mark. Still not a peep(point) from our bench and the one or two starters in there until Stuckey hit a layup with 6:55 left in the game......That was four ^%#$ing minutes with out a point...Meanwhile KG scored the first five points for the C's in the qtr.

At the 5:59 mark Flip brings in the starters and Rip hits a jumper at the 5:39 mark to make it 78-77 C's and the Pistons would not score another bucket the rest of the game...in fact from that point, the celtics closed the game on a 12-1 run. That 's more than 5%%%%ing minutes with out a bucket.

Celtics rule:frusty: ......for now anyway

The #1 seed could end meaning who gets to play LeBron in the 2nd round. The Pistons might not even see Boston in the playoffs.
You are right, the Pistons might not make it to the 3rd round...:MusicBigGrin:

This game was equal parts frustrating and enjoyable. All in all this one doesn't bother me too much. (Lie!) Flip was better than the bench in this one. Maybe that's not saying a lot, but it should be noted that he did not shrink the rotation in the second half.

A real rough start with no apparent answer other that Rip shoots a J, CB shoots a J, Dyess shoots a J, Sheed shoots a J followed by Tay shooting a J. Probably an even better opportunity to give the starters a quick blow to get settled than last night. They did not have enough gas to continually overcome their poor start. It had to be at least halfway through the first before CB took a shot he was trying to hit versus getting fouled.

Maxey biggest contribution might have been to BOS when he missed a dunk early on. It was his only shot.

Dixon was close to being real helpful. A hair off of everything.

Did anyone else see the graphic showing that Tay shot 18% in the first 2 games against BOS? He blew that out of the water with a 3-8 tonight. Good rebounds though.

Some atrocious O in this one. Siamese twins have better spacing than the Pistons did tonight. Man they set horrible screens. They got 0 from them.

BOS wasn't trapping CB on screen rolls/pops and DET still scored 78 points. How do you spell genius?

I thought DET's D looked pretty good for the most part.

At least they showed some pride and picked up some T's, but alas BOS equaled if not surpassed them there.

How much easier would the game have been if DET didn't miss all those free throws to start the game?

I am pretty sure that by Tommy Heinson's account every basket DET scored was the result of luck.

Whoever it was that said Dixon is a lock down defender or bulldog defender has some explaining to do.

I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset over this loss. I am not upset....

The team was tired and this was brutal scheduling. No, I am not hurting by this loss but...

There are some recurring problems. Yes, Ernie, we starting off sharing jump shots. Do we really have an offense after two years with this coaching staff? Or, were we just tired?

How often are we getting abused at the center position by good teams? Yes, we often get beat up top, but we look helpless down underneath. Theo, if he has any of his old game at all, will get real minutes I suspect.

How slow can a coaching staff be to make a move, any move?


Still hard to gauge a game with our team tired from the start.

The #1 seed could end meaning who gets to play LeBron in the 2nd round. The Pistons might not even see Boston in the playoffs.


Meh, keeping thinking that the clearly superior team will lose. Not all powerhouses are as dysfunctional as Detroit.

Did anything really go completely right in this game? I didn't watch but the boxscore just screams MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH.

OK, at one point, Tommy Heinson made the remark that this game was one of the best officiated games of the season. Think about that for a minute. Usually you don't notice the refs when a game is called well... but this one was called SOOOO well that it really stood out to him as being something special.

Besides that, our bench got shut down hard core... 62 minutes and 2 FG's for the bench.

As far as I can tell, Chauncey Billups was the only one who put his heart and mind into this game. 15 free throws, 5 rebounds, and 7 assists in a game when we were getting shut down? That is excellent work from him.

On the flip side, our Center took 10 three pointers, only got 4 rebounds, and allowed KG to post a cool 31 points. WTF was that Sheed??? Besides the 3's, he also took some absolutely horrendous long range 2's. He was killing it in the post. Only he and God know why he didn't set up shot down there. We stopped Allen and we contained Pierce, but we needed Sheed to bother KG and he didn't do it. A dozen wide open J's from the free throw line + the easiest little drop ins you've ever seen when he went inside. It's not like Amir, Dyess, or JMax could do any better, but come on Sheed, you're supposed to be the man.

Meh, keeping thinking that the clearly superior team will lose. Not all powerhouses are as dysfunctional as Detroit.

Did anything really go completely right in this game? I didn't watch but the boxscore just screams MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH.


Ill, I kept wondering why KG has been taunted as MVP all season. He showed his MVP colors tonight dominating our bigs on the inside and hitting the midrange jumpers from the outside. Sheed tried to keep up with him but with 10 three balls and five fouls and no help from the other bigs it was just not enough.

Our defense played tough, but theirs was better. We have played them three times this season and we are averaging a paultry 83.3 points a game. Poor shooting did us in during the 1st and 4th qtarters and their bench spanked ours point wise 15-5. Overall they beat us by 12 points and out rebounded us by 12 boards.. Once again Ray Allen was a no show and they still came out on top...

what i took from this loss:

1. I syill hate Tom Heinsohn

2. Pistons have not won anything since Antonio McDont joined this team.

3. The KPerkins of the world areaveraging 20 rebs a night against this team.

4. We have no bigs with any rear end. We are smaller than all the top3 East teams.

5. rip has never stepped in a big game against big teams. Name ONE big game Rip has shown up in. Plus he hinders Tay's game. Move Tay to Shooting guard and Amir to small forward until he grows up.

6. Herrmann needs a chance..

7. Flip will never lead THIS team to a title.

8. sigh...no excuses...after tonight, Celts ARE a better team. And it wont matter again until we meet them in playoffs

9. I see a real dropoff in the quality of Sheed's play after tonight. What game other than vs Cavs will fire him up?

10. Celtic fans make Piston fans at the Palace look like choir girls. Now THATS HCA!!!!

Seriously, we have the better PG but it ends there.

Boston has a better team, better playmakers, a better defense, and a better bench. Sadly, maybe even a better coach (Doc is nothing special at all but still more than Flip).

I'm completely hopping on the HQ/The Low bandwagon: Show me something and you'll get my confidence in this team back, and Flip is not the man to show us anything.

Thanks for the prediction, Mr. Gloom and Doom. I found a new avatar for you:

I have a new avatar for you after they blow another playoff run....

http://www.wrecktangle.net/images/shrug.jpg

5. rip has never stepped in a big game against big teams. Name ONE big game Rip has shown up in. Plus he hinders Tay's game. Move Tay to Shooting guard and Amir to small forward until he grows up.


Rip has over 2,000 playoff points and his playoffs average of 20.7 ppg is higher than his regular season average of 17.9. In fact, the last playoff game we had, Rip was the only one to show up with 29 points on 50% shooting. Our second best player was Webber with 13 points.

In game 5, he had 26 points with 5 assists and 12 free throws. Game 4, 19 points. Game 1, 24 points, 7 assists. (2, and 3 were sub par).

Against the Bulls:
20/ 5 (points/assists)
24/ 6
16/ 3
11/ 5
16/ 5

Against the Magic:
22/ 4
22/ 6 (with 14 FT's)
10
19

He shows up.

I like #5 Skoo, but what coach would be smart enough to see the need for that?
And pull the string.

We seem to be around a key topic. Perkins had 20 boards. But the guy who was our center was Dyss. He is undersized and slow down underneath on defense. Amir was pushed around too. He did make a key block. Dyss is not really an upgrade from Amir and Amir had problems too tonight. Maxiel has trouble laying the ball in the hoop and is undersized as well. Does Ratliff still have game?

Sheed still kept us in the game despite his shortcomings tonight. Tay was the man last night so I will excuse him for being tired.

Why can't the coach sense Rip is off and sit him for a spell? He doesn't control his players.

Again, questionable offense, poor play at center and slow coaching. Can we overcome this?

On the other hand, we played our cards close to the cuff. I suspect you will see Hunter and maybe afflalo putting big time pressure on their guards. KG can be stopped when it counts and so can Rondo. We didn't show them our stuff.

Amir was Garnett's %%%%% tonight, but its good that hes getting these asswhoppings in the regular season to an all-time great.

Dyess really has no purpose out there against physical teams, at all.

About Rip being off, apparently JD wants him to be more aggressive. Even when he's solid ice.

I agree that Amir couldn't stop KG, but he only got the chance maybe 3 times? Once he stopped him, and the other two, no luck. KG scored just as easily on Dyess and Sheed. That is the real problem. We just didn't have an answer.

Ratliff is the only other option and we won't find out if he can do it until the ECF, if we are still around then.

I think the real problem here is that there are 2 types of basketball: regular bball and playoff bball. This was the latter. There was a lot of contact, a lot of tough calls, very aggressive play by our opponent on defense, etc. Certain things that we are used to getting, just get taken away. At that point, the coaches become true battlefield generals. Flip either did not, or could not make an adjustment to stop KG. This was the first time in a while where all of our bigs just looked overmatched.

However, as I said earlier, I still think that losing this game was important for our psyche. It puts a little doubt in the minds of our starting 5. We are not the favorites anymore and toward the end of the season, this is a game that will come up. Bos won the season series and the 3rd game was decisive.

Remember at the beginning of the season when McDyess was shooting like 60%?

I miss that McDyess :(

Boston picked up PJ Brown and Ssam Cassell to ease their transtion to the finals basically against us and didn't even need them tonight. They didn't need Allen either although he played some defense vs Rip...including sendin him an early message the deck with an elbow the face/neck area.

Agree that our bigs got out 'bigged' tonight, but we had no offense from the bench to offset our defensive shortcomings. Last night I indicated we would need at least 95 points to win this game and that would have indeed done the trick, but only CB was aggressive enough to get in the neighborhood of the paint and get fouled. We fired up jumpers from all over the court and I don't think any of Antonio McUseless 7 shots were taken from within 20 ft of the hoop. Come on man get to the paint and get that % back up...or take yourself out and let the young boyz bang on the inside.

Rebounds are a little deceiving because the Pistons missed so many more shots. Also had an opportunity for more offensive boards but Boston won that 10-9. Its tough when the other team can go 4 on 5 offensivly and have 1 guy try and plant himself under the basket for the offensive board. We can't do that in our system.

5 total points from the bench last night. 5 points and only 2 assists. I liked the Stucky/Afflalo combo and it was working. I don't know why Flip wants to change that at this stage just because Dixon had a good game. Well, maybe he will go back to Afflalo now.

Fatigue was a factor in this game and it showed.

the best thing what players can do is move on, they lost but this is not the end of the world.

And it is not flip's fault that he has to play with players he has. Only sheed is a low post threat, but not every day.They are jumpshooting not because of flip but it is the best what available players can do.


did you notice that sheed was limping?

I agree that Amir couldn't stop KG, but he only got the chance maybe 3 times? Once he stopped him, and the other two, no luck. KG scored just as easily on Dyess and Sheed. That is the real problem. We just didn't have an answer.



"Garnett scored 12 straight points on Johnson in the second quarter."

Caught in the clinch: Celtics lock up playoff spot, and tiebreaker (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/SPORTS0102/803060341/1004/SPORTS)

Im not worried about this loss its just a regular season game where we played the night before and the celtics were rested and waiting for us.I'll reserve judgement and jumping off a building till we lose to them in a 7 game series

We're within one point with a few minutes left and all we can do at that point is shoot 3 bombs and verrrrry long two pointers. Those were not the plays called by Flip. These starters for whatever reason did not want that victory. I'm going to assume that giving the game to Boston was their strategy all along. They actually do better in the playoffs when they don't have home court. Gotta wonder what Sheed's plan for the playoffs is.

what i took from this loss:

1. I syill hate Tom Heinsohn

2. Pistons have not won anything since Antonio McDont joined this team.

3. The KPerkins of the world areaveraging 20 rebs a night against this team.

4. We have no bigs with any rear end. We are smaller than all the top3 East teams.

5. rip has never stepped in a big game against big teams. Name ONE big game Rip has shown up in. Plus he hinders Tay's game. Move Tay to Shooting guard and Amir to small forward until he grows up.

6. Herrmann needs a chance..

7. Flip will never lead THIS team to a title.

8. sigh...no excuses...after tonight, Celts ARE a better team. And it wont matter again until we meet them in playoffs

9. I see a real dropoff in the quality of Sheed's play after tonight. What game other than vs Cavs will fire him up?

10. Celtic fans make Piston fans at the Palace look like choir girls. Now THATS HCA!!!!

That's funny, you make me laugh.

Game 6 vs NJ in 04'

Game 7 vs Miami in 05'

Game 5 vs LAL in 04'

All the negative stuff I'm reading in here for the most part is spot on.

1. We don't have guys that can get to the rack and get fouled with regularity, or create for others.

2. We don't have 'power bigs', although that shouldn't really be a concern vs Boston. I don't know why you don't match up Max with fat baby (who is quickly becoming my least favorite player in the world). Athough the corpse of Karl Malone in 04' shut down KG by being physical, with a different interpretation of what is and isn't a foul though...

3. Way too many 3's.

4. Repeat after me Flip "Amir with the other 4 starters", not "Sheed with 4 bench guys".

5. Stop picking up weak offensive fouls C$, and why does the ball movement have to stop vs good teams? (see Playoffs 2006, 2007)

6. Now the "no rest" and "gimpy sheed" and "weak foul trouble on Sheed/Dyess" are all legit excuse/reasons but this was a no excuse game.

7. We can't stop dribble drives, even though you have no reason to respect Rondo's J, you still can't check him? As soon as we help they are dropping dimes to guy who aren't even NBA caliber bigs for shots even they can't F up. Powe's playing on one knee, Davis is waste of 9,999 calories per day, Perkins in the homeless man's Rick Mahorn.

8. Speaking of Karl Malone doing a good job on KG, I'd like to see Hermann get a crack at him. PS. 99% of the time he's taking one dribble L and pulling up for a J.

9. We "ONCE AGAIN" (because Joe didn't alter the roster with truly playoff ready guys, maybe if Stuckey had a whole season and Amir got the experience of CWebb's burn last year) are a 3rd or 4th place team instead of a championship team.

10. As far as "futures" PJ Brown + Cassell is way better than Theo + Old man River Hunter.

Twice for sure, and maybe once more I remember Tay backing someone down, getting swarmed, and then tossing the ball out to Sheed behind the three point line with only a couple of seconds on the clock. Yeah, Sheed probably took too many threes, but a fair number were good looks and at least a couple came from someone else bailing out on him. Without those maybe he finishes 3-7 from three?

- Looks like the Dixon new team shooting honeymoon is over. And his Hunter impersonation is not working yet.

- Bring back Affalo.

- Bad time for Rip to slump.

- How many Piston shots in the first six minutes didn't even draw iron?

- Pistons won 75-73 after going down 17-3. 75-61 if you don't count the beginning and the end.

- Darn Detroit weather.

Twice for sure, and maybe once more I remember Tay backing someone down, getting swarmed, and then tossing the ball out to Sheed behind the three point line with only a couple of seconds on the clock. Yeah, Sheed probably took too many threes, but a fair number were good looks and at least a couple came from someone else bailing out on him. Without those maybe he finishes 3-7 from three?

- Looks like the Dixon new team shooting honeymoon is over. And his Hunter impersonation is not working yet.

- Bring back Affalo.

- Bad time for Rip to slump.

- How many Piston shots in the first six minutes didn't even draw iron?

- Pistons won 75-73 after going down 17-3. 75-61 if you don't count the beginning and the end.

- Darn Detroit weather.

Seems like one of those 2 is at least critically important.

Coffee is for closers. Something we used to excel at, and other than one drawn foul Boston has absolutely OWNED us down the stretch in all 3 games.

Looks like Flip held true to form in terms of offense over defense. Again Afflalo (who was a major factor in the ONLY game we won against BOS) didn not play. I knew he would fall in love with Dixon and his bad defense as soon as he hit a shot.

Amir needs to start. Dyess is killing us at that spot. Maybe Theo really does have something left.

I didn't watch the game, b/c i knew we would lose, and i didn't want to aggravate myself over it (although i't didn't really work, i'm mad now).

20 rebounds for Big Baby Davis. It's nice to know our coaching staff can make adjustments.

From what i get from the recap, we didn't score for the last 5 min of the game or so. It's not suprising. Our late game execution has been atrocious for the most part, and is covered up by our many blow-outs. We can't hold a lead, or take a lead. Jumpshots, Jumpshots, Jumpshots.

back to back + Flip's inexpt coaching = BOS win

You'd think he'd know/or have some kind of strategy or knowledge on bothering KG since he coached him for i don't know 8 years. Sheed didn't step up form what i'm reading either and he's hurt ?

Also the thing about the Zoo Crew was that the defense was spectacular. They always had trouble scoring unless it was in transition. Taking Afflalo and putting Dixon in is going to negate that. Someone needs to tell Flip AA can stop dribble penetration.

edited to add;

We have one of the best record in the league when outrebounding an opponent. Guess who else does?? I'll give you a hint 50-38.

OK, at one point, Tommy Heinson made the remark that this game was one of the best officiated games of the season. Think about that for a minute. Usually you don't notice the refs when a game is called well... but this one was called SOOOO well that it really stood out to him as being something special.

I don't remember him saying that, but even though he sucks, I thought even Tommy would notice how horrible the refereeing was on both ends. There were about 7 or 8 appallingly bad calls against the Pistons, but probably 5 or 6 against Boston as well.

Seems like one of those 2 is at least critically important.

Coffee is for closers. Something we used to excel at, and other than one drawn foul Boston has absolutely OWNED us down the stretch in all 3 games.

We use to excel at it because we had an excellent coaching staff that was also able to control the players.

I remember someone asked me to give them one reason i think the Pistons can't win in the post-season and it's simple; They're undisciplined.

I was looking forward to this game, and it stunk.

I could go on and on, but I'm exhausted. The finger pointing and blame, exhausting. Missed shots, no rebounding, personnel issues, exhausting.

The only good thing to come out of this game, is that I have crystallized my intense dislike (trying to remove the word hate from my vernacular) for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett.

So much of the Boston role players (the bench) not being deep enough to win it all, but after 3 games, they outplayed our bench every game. Not only scoring wise but every other stat.

Agreed that AA should have played in this game, not Dixon.

The only good thing to come out of this game, is that I have crystallized my intense dislike (trying to remove the word hate from my vernacular) for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett.

For me it's Rajon Rondo. I liked it when Maxiell gave him that hard foul.

For me it's Rajon Rondo. I liked it when Maxiell gave him that hard foul.
I keep hoping Maxiell will go all CUJO on Steve Javie.

I dunno. I don't really care much, so when a game gets me absolutely enraged, it's not a good feeling.

I thought Billups was close to awful last night. Aside for his D Wade treatment in the 3rd, what else was there?

Instead of trapping CB, the C's went to achilles # 2 - hounding Rip as he came off of his screens. This put quite a chink in their offense. DET also gave up their dribble inviting double teams and pseudo traps which wasn't helping.

Watching how the C's fight to get through picks and then watching how DET responds to them, it is no wonder that the Pistons have trouble with screen/rolls. I said it after the Utah game and I'll say it again. If your job is to come set a screen on Chauncey, then you are in for an easy nights work. He might as well have a bag over his head as he tries to get through it. To paraphrase what they say in hockey, the screener could have a carton of eggs in his shorts and they would stay whole.

Aside from the misses, at least one of Sheed's made 3's came as the shot clock was expiring. Should he just hold on to the ball and let the clock expire to pacify us?

Sequence that kind of summed up the game. Dixon rimmed out a free throwish jumper and Eddie House came right back and hit a long 2 off a screen.

I'm surprised Dixon isn't blossoming at the 2 being that he's maybe 6'3 and 165 lbs.

KG cooled off considerably once the 4th came.

I can’t explain why it is, maybe the word is just out like it is with running Rip off of screens, but going to CB in the post isn’t nearly as effective as it was or you would think it would be. I am guessing it has something to do with the inactivity of the other 4 on the floor with him.

I keep hoping Maxiell will go all CUJO on Steve Javie.

I dunno. I don't really care much, so when a game gets me absolutely enraged, it's not a good feeling.

I was hoping Dyess would crack Garnett and send him scurrying backwards.

meh. The Celtics have got to be the most disgustingly arrogant collection of showboating, jersey popping jackasses in the league. The only guy I even liked prior to this season was Ray, and it's still the case, though that elbow to Rip's throat was pretty bad. Nice of Rip to repay him with a shot to the 'jewels'. And, AA>Dixon, even though I rather like the new guy.

meh. The Celtics have got to be the most disgustingly arrogant collection of showboating, jersey popping jackasses in the league. The only guy I even liked prior to this season was Ray, and it's still the case, though that elbow to Rip's throat was pretty bad. Nice of Rip to repay him with a shot to the 'jewels'. And, AA>Dixon, even though I rather like the new guy.

That shot of Allen running up the floor holding his crotch and yelling at the ref was pretty funny. I'd forgotten about that.

Thats the problem when you get a lot of role players on a team of superstars. They start acting like they have been there before and deserve special treatment. Perkins and Tony Allen were disgusting in their body language. Show some respect for KG getting you those open looks not as if you individually did.

All valid points.

I know this is just going to be ignored or dismissed by most. But I think one should at least acknowledge the difference between one team flying in and and not getting to bed until 4am due to weather delays and the other team leasurly waiting for them. We are not a young team anymore.

Looks like Flip held true to form in terms of offense over defense. Again Afflalo (who was a major factor in the ONLY game we won against BOS) didn not play. I knew he would fall in love with Dixon and his bad defense as soon as he hit a shot.

Amir needs to start. Dyess is killing us at that spot. Maybe Theo really does have something left.

I didn't watch the game, b/c i knew we would lose, and i didn't want to aggravate myself over it (although i't didn't really work, i'm mad now).

20 rebounds for Big Baby Davis. It's nice to know our coaching staff can make adjustments.

From what i get from the recap, we didn't score for the last 5 min of the game or so. It's not suprising. Our late game execution has been atrocious for the most part, and is covered up by our many blow-outs. We can't hold a lead, or take a lead. Jumpshots, Jumpshots, Jumpshots.

back to back + Flip's inexpt coaching = BOS win

You'd think he'd know/or have some kind of strategy or knowledge on bothering KG since he coached him for i don't know 8 years. Sheed didn't step up form what i'm reading either and he's hurt ?

Also the thing about the Zoo Crew was that the defense was spectacular. They always had trouble scoring unless it was in transition. Taking Afflalo and putting Dixon in is going to negate that. Someone needs to tell Flip AA can stop dribble penetration.

edited to add;

We have one of the best record in the league when outrebounding an opponent. Guess who else does?? I'll give you a hint 50-38.

I believe Perkins had the 20 boards.

yeah the look on perkins face was hilarious.

also, when ray elbowed rip...how was that only a technical foul and not an offensive foul???? rip shot the tech but boston got the ball back. that makes NO sense to me whatsoever.

they replayed the game and i turned to it on and off, and watching it for a 2nd time it was again baffling with our shot selection...it really looked like they were taking terrible shots on purpose and not trying very hard.

also, when ray elbowed rip...how was that only a technical foul and not an offensive foul???? rip shot the tech but boston got the ball back. that makes NO sense to me whatsoever.

They called the tech on Ray along with A FOUL ON RIP...apparently for fouling Ray's elbow with his face.

they replayed the game and i turned to it on and off, and watching it for a 2nd time it was again baffling with our shot selection...it really looked like they were taking terrible shots on purpose and not trying very hard.

Maybe it is even more WWE than we all fear/think. :doh:

I believe Perkins had the 20 boards.

My mistake. It doesn't make a difference one way or another. Another role player going off on us.

My mistake. It doesn't make a difference one way or another. Another role player going off on us.

While you're mostly right, it'd be scary if somebody 6'7" 300lbs CAME OFF THE BENCH and got 20 boards.

While you're mostly right, it'd be scary if somebody 6'7" 300lbs CAME OFF THE BENCH and got 20 boards.

i didn't think of it like that LOL, but yea if that happened we should probably just forefit our season.

Well shall we all admit that Boston is a tad better than the Pistons on paper and the floor for awhile and stop living on our past glory?? Yeah we are a good team and could possibly beat them in a 7 game series, but if that series started tomorrow, I would give it to the Celtics based on heart, hunger, disipline and role players. (I threw out the coaching and superstar factors.).

We still have work to do as the bench is as insconsistent as our starters and coaching philosophy. Joe and Flip if you are reading this we need to experiment a little more over the next couple of weeks. That means starting Amir or even Theo to see if that makes a difference in keeping Dice fresh. he is already tailing off and we are only 3/4 of the way thru the season and we haven't even got to the post season yet.

Playing Prince in back to back nights of 38+ mins make no sense at all. If it appears that Hayes is off, you don't have to put Prince back in...go to Fabio ands see if can give you some non-garbage time fancy moves. (if he is dressed of course). Trotting out Dixon to see what he can give you is an OK move, but don't abandon Alf???

Please reel in Rip when he needs it. when he is on, he's great, but when he tries forcing the issue it's disasterous and unfortunately Stuckey seems to follow in his footsteps at times....

In the Post season it going to be about the Paint...you have to learn how to protect it and you got know how to use it. A jumpshooting team will fall in love with the jumpers and die by them....

I just watched the game. I counted 6 points that Garnett scored on Amir, and two of those were foul shots on a bad call. One bucket was when Amir went for a steal, and Wallace failed to cover his back. Garnett scored on Amir exactly once in the post against him. In contrast, well, lets just mention that Garnett scored over 30. As usual McCoskey was doing something else besides watching the game.


McCoskey also failed to note that the Pistons had a 9 - 0 run with Amir in the game for the end of the 3rd, start of the 4th quarter. With Jason Maxiell playing along side him. In all, Amir came in with us 7 down, and went out with us 5 down. (technically just 3, but I do count the made free throws after Amir left the game - so McCoskey did manage to get one thing right - a bit more than usual for him. lol.)


What ended the run? Flip did. He brought in Hayes for Prince and Sheed for Jason. So much for the theory of staying with the hot hand. Could we have won this one if Flip just left Maxiell and Amir in as his bigs for the whole 4th. Probably. It worked the night before. It seemed to be working just fine in this game.


Now, the starters did not much it up right away. The game was kept close for a minute and a half. A questionable call by the refs here and there, plus some shots that just missed for us, and all the sudden the Pistons were down double digits. This and the opening of the game, where our starters totally botched everything, were the only bad stretches of the game. We did pretty darn good in contrast when we had bench players in.


And this despite the fact that Hayes and Dixon gave us next to nothing in the game. Now, Dixon was in there during that 9-0 run. If he had hit his couple of shots there, it would have been nice. He hustled to get open for a couple of fairly close in shots but missed the shots. Let me see, who does that leave from the bench that did contribute a lot. How did the bench do as well as it did? Stuckey, Amir, and Maxiell. They may not have scored points, but they played good D. (Stuckey did have the one nice drive for a score.)


Amir's highlight was two quick blocks during that 9-0 run.
Billups sure had the right idea toward the end of the 3rd. Drive them inside and score at free throw line. Man, just think if Dyess was worth a darn in this game and did anything at all inside. But nope, worthless outside shots, not in anyway possible for them to draw fouls. Hey, Dyess, help the team next time, work the inside.


Sheed had the good scoring 2nd quarter. He also twisted his ankle some. It did not seem to affect his game that much. 3 for 10 from 3 land. Hey, thats 9 points on 10 shots. Par. Not great, not bad.


Rip was not terrible, not great. Allen was held in check, so you really can't say Rip did all that bad. Still, like the rest of the starters mostly, he was heavily minus for the game. (Prince was the exception. Note, I have not checked these stats, just from memory.)


Tay looked awful good during that little run we had. And Pierce was held in check. So again, can't say he had a bad game.


Ok, whats going on with our bench? Stuckey continues to get lots of minutes. Billups continues to respond very well for all the rest. Rip still plays too much, even though we have an excellent backup in Afflalo who could be giving him more rest, and add energy to the team while Rip is sitting. You play the best, not the vet just because he is a vet. Remember this, if Dixon was all that good, Toronto, a team with some big playoff aspirations, would have kept him.


Amir and Maxiell continue to get time. But Dyess is still overplayed mostly. Maybe adding Theo into the mix will finally help that. But then again, Flip Saunders is our coach, and that is a dangerous thing. His statement that the starters have to play 30 plus minutes in the playoffs is absurd if that includes McDyess.


In all, I believe absolutely that the Pistons have the players to win it all this year. But I don't think we have a coach capable of simply playing the right players. If Flip gets his way, and Dixon, Hunter, Hayes, and Theo end up being pretty much our bench, I see an exit in the first round. And I don't care who we play. If we could play Seattle in the first round, or even Miami, we would lose in the first round. Any team in the league is going to beat us if Flip gets his way.


On the other hand, if our subs are mainly Amir, Maxiell, Afflalo, Stuckey, no team can beat us. Its Flips choice. I will not fault Dumars for adding good players. You can't idiot proof a team. If Flip makes those wrong choices, its Flip who will be at fault and nobody else.

On the other hand, if our subs are mainly Amir, Maxiell, Afflalo, Stuckey, no team can beat us. Its Flips choice. I will not fault Dumars for adding good players. You can't idiot proof a team. If Flip makes those wrong choices, its Flip who will be at fault and nobody else.

I agree with that. I'd hate to see AA's minutes get taken by Dixon.

Who gets credit for making Ray Allen go 1-9 from the floor?

I agree with most of the posters, but people who believe that it isn't the starters who will make or break us are plain wrong. I understand rest, substitution patterns, match-ups, etc. and all the other nuances that can effect a game, but come May and June we will be relying on the quality of our starters. You have to go to Sheed at the end of this game. I don't care what Amir and Max did the previous game together against Seattle or what not. What if Sheed sat the entire 4th and we still lost. People (Sheed and Joe D included) would have Flip's head. Its Rasheed Wallace, 4 time all-star. Not some scrub. Popovich wouldn't sit Duncan in the 4th if Elson was the hot hand. Pierce, Garnett, Allen, and Rondo are better than a team of Amir, Max, Afflalo, and Stuckey. I love the youth and they are exciting to watch. They are different and everyone loves vsriety. But it is time we show some respect to the skills of Big shot, Rip, Sheed and Prince and quit clamoring for the bench as a built in excuse.

Duncan wouldn't shoot 10 3-pointers and a handful of fade-away college 3's and let his man go off for 31 points. I agree that we are going to be relying on Sheed. I just hope he gets some discipline. He was awesome down low last night... which really makes his overall performance such a dissapointment.

(I threw out the coaching and superstar factors.).

We still have work to do as the bench is as insconsistent as our starters and coaching philosophy. Joe and Flip if you are reading this we need to experiment a little more over the next couple of weeks. That means starting Amir or even Theo to see if that makes a difference in keeping Dice fresh. he is already tailing off and we are only 3/4 of the way thru the season and we haven't even got to the post season yet.

Playing Prince in back to back nights of 38+ mins make no sense at all. If it appears that Hayes is off, you don't have to put Prince back in...go to Fabio ands see if can give you some non-garbage time fancy moves. (if he is dressed of course). Trotting out Dixon to see what he can give you is an OK move, but don't abandon Alf???

Please reel in Rip when he needs it. when he is on, he's great, but when he tries forcing the issue it's disasterous and unfortunately Stuckey seems to follow in his footsteps at times....

In the Post season it going to be about the Paint...you have to learn how to protect it and you got know how to use it. A jumpshooting team will fall in love with the jumpers and die by them....

All your points sound like coaching problems to me though. Not being able to find the right mix of rotations, inability to think outside the box (try something new), overplaying Prince, Rip running wild, and all those jumpers.

I actually think we are better if not even with BOS. But then i'm of the thought that we have been better than the teams we've lost to in the last post-seasons but not utitlized correctly. The shots we take would give any good coach a conniption (sp?). In fact to steal the TNT thing, Larry Brown is rolling over in his grave right now.

Duncan wouldn't shoot 10 3-pointers and a handful of fade-away college 3's and let his man go off for 31 points. I agree that we are going to be relying on Sheed. I just hope he gets some discipline. He was awesome down low last night... which really makes his overall performance such a dissapointment.

To be fair he did get hurt in the 2nd quarter ?, and is probably out for the NY game. I agree he has to be more discplined, but at the same time sometimes i think it hurts us when we rely on him too much on the block.

There has to be a healthy balance between the starters which we haven't been able to find in a very long time.

Duncan wouldn't shoot 10 3-pointers and a handful of fade-away college 3's and let his man go off for 31 points. I agree that we are going to be relying on Sheed. I just hope he gets some discipline. He was awesome down low last night... which really makes his overall performance such a dissapointment.
Duncan is not a 3-point shooter to begin with, so even though I'd love to see Sheed playing in the paint more, it is not a valid point.

These are all good points, but isn't the three ball a major part of Sheed's game? How many of his makes especially the one's that are wide open really benefit the team? I maybe the only one, but I think his three ball is an advantage not a crutch. No one ever mentions the game when he is 4-4 from three point line and 1-6 on the block.

Duncan wouldn't shoot 10 3-pointers and a handful of fade-away college 3's and let his man go off for 31 points. I agree that we are going to be relying on Sheed. I just hope he gets some discipline. He was awesome down low last night... which really makes his overall performance such a dissapointment.

I agree. I think Duncan would hold on to the ball and let the shot clock rather than shoot a dastardly 3.

Weren't the overwhelming majority of KG points off of jumpers from the top of the key area?

These are all good points, but isn't the three ball a major part of Sheed's game? How many of his makes especially the one's that are wide open really benefit the team? I maybe the only one, but I think his three ball is an advantage not a crutch. No one ever mentions the game when he is 4-4 from three point line and 1-6 on the block.
Sheed is the best when he is 1-3 from the 3-point line and 9-12 on the block.

I agree. I think Duncan would hold on to the ball and let the shot clock rather than shoot a dastardly 3.

Weren't the overwhelming majority of KG points off of jumpers from the top of the key area?

Thank you. Garnett mostly shot McDyess shots from 18 feet. They were going in so there was no complaining from the Celtic faithful. The times Garnett went to the block were mostly when Sheed was in foul trouble and barely trying to defend him aggressively. Listen, I don't want to defend Sheed irregardless of what he does, but I thought he played a decent game offensively - factoring in his foul trouble and game plan.

We got beat yesterday. Straight up. Popovich would not have had some rabbit in his hat to make that game any better. Yes AA could have had Dixon's minutes, but we didn't need additional defense at the time. (Though one can argue extra defense is always needed) At that time we couldn't hit the back of a barn with the shots. I didn't see one guy on the roster that should have received X amount of more minutes because they were so effective.

Sheed shot 10 threes and got out rebounded by our point guard. Who's fault is it that Sheed got in foul trouble? Why didn't Sheed get his man in foul trouble? Chauncey was playing physical basketball and Sheed was following the path of least resistance.

I don't hate it when Sheed shoots 3 pointers, but this was clearly out of control. Was he saving himself for the playoffs? The switch argument?

Sheed shot 10 threes and got out rebounded by our point guard. Who's fault is it that Sheed got in foul trouble? Why didn't Sheed get his man in foul trouble? Chauncey was playing physical basketball and Sheed was following the path of least resistance.

I don't hate it when Sheed shoots 3 pointers, but this was clearly out of control. Was he saving himself for the playoffs? The switch argument?

Didn't someone post this identical post last year after our defeat?

I think the only thing saving him from a total roast here is that he knocked 3 of his 3's down. If we were looking at an 0-10 performance, this place would smell right now.

I don't hate it when Sheed shoots 3 pointers, but this was clearly out of control. Was he saving himself for the playoffs? The switch argument?

No, he was being Sheed. You have to take him for what he is. I'm sorry, but he's not going to change. If we wanted someone with more consistency of style, then Joe should have never signed him. It's not like this is new.

No, he was being Sheed. You have to take him for what he is. I'm sorry, but he's not going to change. If we wanted someone with more consistency of style, then Joe should have never signed him. It's not like this is new.

I'm wondering how much of this is Sheed versus just running the plays. Is he calling audibles and floating out there? Or are they running a bunch of plays where he isn't supposed to go to the post?


Wallace lingered near the Celtics' bench just long enough to declare to coach Doc Rivers, "You got no one that can guard me, Doc."

Then he stepped to the line and missed both free throws.

Uggh.

meh. The Celtics have got to be the most disgustingly arrogant collection of showboating, jersey popping jackasses in the league. The only guy I even liked prior to this season was Ray, and it's still the case, though that elbow to Rip's throat was pretty bad. Nice of Rip to repay him with a shot to the 'jewels'. And, AA>Dixon, even though I rather like the new guy.

They are winners. Thats all what matters.

We need more KG's (attitude). The Celtics envy of the posters on this forum is APPALLING.

No offense but this post screams "LOSER" to me. And I'm sorry to single you out but i don't wanna shovel through all the ****. BTW with Rip's styles he's basically asking for contact.

EDIT: Sheed doesn't have to tact or discipline to stick to his strength. He wants to be Jason ****in Kapono.

I'm wondering how much of this is Sheed versus just running the plays. Is he calling audibles and floating out there? Or are they running a bunch of plays where he isn't supposed to go to the post?

Well, he does it more under Flip than he did under LB. He averaged 3.0 and 3.1 three-point attempts per game under LB and is averaging 4.0 attempts this year and last. The first year under Flip (05-06), he averaged 5.4 three-point attempts per game. LB's disdain for overuse of the three was well-known. So I think you are right in suggesting that play-calling is a factor.

Rip has over 2,000 playoff points and his playoffs average of 20.7 ppg is higher than his regular season average of 17.9. In fact, the last playoff game we had, Rip was the only one to show up with 29 points on 50% shooting. Our second best player was Webber with 13 points.

In game 5, he had 26 points with 5 assists and 12 free throws. Game 4, 19 points. Game 1, 24 points, 7 assists. (2, and 3 were sub par).

Against the Bulls:
20/ 5 (points/assists)
24/ 6
16/ 3
11/ 5
16/ 5

Against the Magic:
22/ 4
22/ 6 (with 14 FT's)
10
19

He shows up.
LEBRON HAD 48!!Thats showing up!

They are winners. Thats all what matters.

We need more KG's (attitude). The Celtics envy of the posters on this forum is APPALLING.

No offense but this post screams "LOSER" to me. And I'm sorry to single you out but i don't wanna shovel through all the ****. BTW with Rip's styles he's basically asking for contact.

EDIT: Sheed doesn't have to tact or discipline to stick to his strength. He wants to be Jason ****in Kapono.

My thing is, there's intensity..and then there's intensity. There's no need to go around acting like a**holes all the time. One could argue that Rasheed is the one who brings "intensity" to the Pistons, as he certainly did in last year's playoff run, and to the team's championship run. You can argue that every team needs that, but that type of emotion has its benefits and disadvantages. Sure, you love seeing him fired up and whatnot, and you love that he comes to play every night. But there comes a point when you have to say "Is that really necessary?" Going around popping your jersey like you're a highschool kid, not a 30-something superstar is something I do not applaud. My disdain for that team has less to do with their success as it does to the way they conduct themselves because of it.

Celtics envy? Where'd you get that from? Yeah, people are overreacting to what is essentially just one loss, but I don't see "envy". Disdain, and maybe hate, but envy? People just want to see their favorite team go on to win the championship, and people go about that in different ways. What I see is frustration more than anything else, but that is something that comes after every loss this team has suffered, not just this one.
If I were to envy any team's success, it'd be the Spurs'. But as it stands, they are a team I have the greatest respect for, because they are one of the most humble teams in the league, despite having had an enormous amount of success. That's the difference. If the Celtics didn't act like such punks, I'd have much more respect for them too.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion of the Celtics. No one person is any more right or wrong than the other.

My thing is, there's intensity..and then there's intensity. There's no need to go around acting like a**holes all the time. One could argue that Rasheed is the one who brings "intensity" to the Pistons, as he certainly did in last year's playoff run, and to the team's championship run. You can argue that every team needs that, but that type of emotion has its benefits and disadvantages. Sure, you love seeing him fired up and whatnot, and you love that he comes to play every night. But there comes a point when you have to say "Is that really necessary?" Going around popping your jersey like you're a highschool kid, not a 30-something superstar is something I do not applaud. My disdain for that team has less to do with their success as it does to the way they conduct themselves because of it.

Celtics envy? Where'd you get that from? Yeah, people are overreacting to what is essentially just one loss, but I don't see "envy". Disdain, and maybe hate, but envy? People just want to see their favorite team go on to win the championship, and people go about that in different ways. What I see is frustration more than anything else, but that is something that comes after every loss this team has suffered, not just this one.
If I were to envy any team's success, it'd be the Spurs'. But as it stands, they are a team I have the greatest respect for, because they are one of the most humble teams in the league, despite having had an enormous amount of success. That's the difference. If the Celtics didn't act like such punks, I'd have much more respect for them too.

Damn good post.

LEBRON HAD 48!!Thats showing up!

He also had 39 tonight and lost to a team that's 11 games under .500.


Back to the Sheed thing. I think it was Joe Dumars earlier this year who said that he would like to see Sheed take about 3 shots in the post for every 3-point attempt. I also believe that Flip Saunders said that he feels like he needs a cattle prod to keep Sheed inside the arc. Based on those comments, I'm guessing that the problem is self discipline.

He also had 39 tonight and lost to a team that's 11 games under .500.


Back to the Sheed thing. I think it was Joe Dumars earlier this year who said that he would like to see Sheed take about 3 shots in the post for every 3-point attempt. I also believe that Flip Saunders said that he feels like he needs a cattle prod to keep Sheed inside the arc. Based on those comments, I'm guessing that the problem is self discipline.

God thanks that somebody FINALLY says that players have responsibilities too. I'm ultimately bored of those"poor coaching/adjusting" accusations. Some here in this forum image like coach is a chess player who can "handle" his "puppets" as he likes. Coach may give orders but this is all: all the rest depends on players. Another irritating topic for me is how some take "adjustments": they threat adjustments like a sort of magic - cast it at the right time and problems gone. From their point of view coach should know when bad play happens and forestall these by making "adjustments". Wake up, coaches' equipment does not include crystal balls. Many of coaches adjustments are orders, but it doesn't mean that sheed bothers to follow them.

He also had 39 tonight and lost to a team that's 11 games under .500.

how have we fared against the bulls again this year?

Remember he's missing Booby, Z, and Pavlovic. That is essentially 3 starters and 3 of the few remaining guys he has any chemistry with.

Also as one of the streakiest teams I've ever done seen, when the Bulls are hitting their J's they can beat any team in the league.

Remember he's missing Booby, Z, and Pavlovic. That is essentially 3 starters and 3 of the few remaining guys he has any chemistry with.


That didn't stop him from beating the Bulls on Sunday.

All I'm saying is that it's a team thing. Rip "shows up" when he scores about 20 points and gets some assists. We don't need 1 guy taking 36 shots (unless it's Sheed and they are all dunks).

He also had 39 tonight and lost to a team that's 11 games under .500.


Back to the Sheed thing. I think it was Joe Dumars earlier this year who said that he would like to see Sheed take about 3 shots in the post for every 3-point attempt. I also believe that Flip Saunders said that he feels like he needs a cattle prod to keep Sheed inside the arc. Based on those comments, I'm guessing that the problem is self discipline.

Then who's calling plays out of timeouts for Sheed to shoot 3's. 1.8 seconds left if the 1st quarter and what did they run?

Later, Billups has the ball on the right elbow, Rip tries to post Ray Allen, (Why, only the lord knows?) Rip gets pushed out to the right elbow. He and Billups are now about 6 inches from one another. Mano o mano Rip goes nowhere but backwards from that point and passes to Sheed with approx 2 seconds on the clock. What is he supposed to do, punt?

I also am not turning a blind eye to Sheed (Nor targeting you personally), but to me he was about their only consistent offense all night. To say Billups was aggressive doesn't seem right. At best he and Rondo were a draw, but in actuality Rondo badly outplayed him. That should not be.

First of all, I don't mind when Sheed shoots a 3 as a designed play with 2 seconds on the clock. In that scenario, it is a good opportunity, cause it's easy to get him the ball and it for sure won't be blocked.

But on a normal possession, perhaps the reason why we can't get an open shot is because nobody is commanding a double team. Maybe if he was a threat down low, Rip would end up with an open J. We would have been better off with a 24 second violation than some of the shots Sheed was taking. The baby hook college 3 attempt and the heavily contested 3 where the ball just sort of slipped out of his hands are two examples where the Celtics immediately fast breaked off the terrible misses and scored easily.

Rondo badly outplayed Chauncey? ? ? How so?

CB:
23 points (14-15 free throws)
5 assists
5 rebounds
1 steal
2 blocks
2 turnovers

RR:
16 points (4-6 FT's)
5 assists
2 rebounds
0 steals
0 blocks
5 turnovers

I would say Perkins badly outplayed Dyess. 20 rebounds to 6. And Garnett badly outplayed Sheed. KG with 31 points (career high with Boston).

Boston played vintage 2004 Pistons basketball and we played Pistons 2006 basketball.

First of all, I don't mind when Sheed shoots a 3 as a designed play with 2 seconds on the clock. In that scenario, it is a good opportunity, cause it's easy to get him the ball and it for sure won't be blocked.

But on a normal possession, perhaps the reason why we can't get an open shot is because nobody is commanding a double team. Maybe if he was a threat down low, Rip would end up with an open J. We would have been better off with a 24 second violation than some of the shots Sheed was taking. The baby hook college 3 attempt and the heavily contested 3 where the ball just sort of slipped out of his hands are two examples where the Celtics immediately fast breaked off the terrible misses and scored easily.

Rondo badly outplayed Chauncey? ? ? How so?

CB:
23 points (14-15 free throws)
5 assists
5 rebounds
1 steal
2 blocks
2 turnovers

RR:
16 points (4-6 FT's)
5 assists
2 rebounds
0 steals
0 blocks
5 turnovers

I would say Perkins badly outplayed Dyess. 20 rebounds to 6. And Garnett badly outplayed Sheed. KG with 31 points (career high with Boston).

Boston played vintage 2004 Pistons basketball and we played Pistons 2006 basketball.
One thing I try to tell a lot of u young cats on the forum is "stop being so infatuated with stats and WATCH the game". Rondo 08 vs Rondo 07 is 150% better! rondo hands are the size of Herrmannn's. he's lanky and unorthodox like Parker and Ginobbli and they drive CB crazy. CB was awful vs Boston and if you ask me , any game that he has under 10 asists is a bad game. Defensively, he cant stop any guard penetration because he is still used to Ben being behind him.
What ticks me off is that Billups listens to the press say that he should dominate Rondo and he just looks full of himself out there. Just play our game and the matchup issues will come to him.

Finally, my biggest worry in games like this is how inept Flip looks on the sideline. How comes he paces the sideline for 48 minutes? That would tell me that you have to look like you're in control. That really coincides with his nervous tick syndrome.

No title, bye bye Flip...period.

CB was great in the 3rd quarter; I think he was 11-11 from the line and 3-3 from the floor, all in that one period. But he stunk down the stretch in the 4th and wasn't too good in the first half either. In the first half, he was bailing out on almost every play and hoisting up stupid shots without getting any calls. He obviously adjusted in the 3rd quarter and spent most of that period at the line, which was big for the Pistons, but he did pretty much get outplayed in the 4th.

(by the way, correction, CB had 7 assists).

I'm only using stats to back up my opinion that CB was better than Rondo. Every game that CB doesn't have 10 assists is a bad game for him? What about Rondo? How can you only have 5 assists with Pierce, KG, and Allen to pass to? Especially when you are supposedly blowing by the slower Billups.

I'm not saying that Chauncey had his best game. After all, he shot poorly and didn't come through down the stretch. But I felt like he really grinded out a good game when nothing was working for us. He drew about as many fouls as any Pistons player has drawn all year. That part was fantastic because it was all heart.

I just find it hard to criticize Billups when he was doing everything (scoring, driving, drawing fouls, rebounding, passing the ball, and even blocking shots). If Sheed, Rip, and Dyess would have each knocked down one more shot, then we'd be looking at a 10 assist night for CB. How about that play were Rondo looked backwards and Chaunce just blew by him? That was awesome.

Here is the order is which I saw our faults:
1) Dyess- this was a lousy game for him. Maybe he was trying to help on KG or something, but Mr. best rebounder in the last 30 days got outrebounded by 14 to Perkins... and he got outscored because his shot was off. Then go inside and get easy shots or get fouled. He did neither.
2) Bench- 63 minutes and 2 baskets. Maxiell and Amir got 2 shots off in 29 combined minutes. Dixon + Hayes were 1 for 7. KG put on a better basketball clinic with Amir as the prop defender. This was not the zoo crew's shining hour. Other than not being able to stop KG, their D was OK, but you need to get some buckets boys.
3) Sheed- this has already been explained ad naseum.

The positives:
Chauncey played well. Rip shot 50% and kept Ray Allen from Scoring. Tay was easily our leading rebounder with 10 AND he had 5 assists.

Rip shot 50% and kept Ray Allen from Scoring.

I had to go back and look at the numbers - not because I don't believe you, but because I came out of that game only remembering Rip bricking shot after shot. Guess I wasn't paying enough attention. Or only really remember that awful first couple of minutes.

Eight shots / 50% shooting in the first quarter
Six shots / 50% shooting the rest of the game

Now I'm mistrusting everything I remember about the game. Looks like the team went away from him for some reason. Has Allen playing that well defensively?

I actually came away with the same impression about Rip until I looked at the box score. I think the reason that it seemed like a poor performance live was because he was guarded and needed to force his shots a bit. I remember him hitting some shots that would have been considered back selection if he would have missed them.

I actually came away with the same impression about Rip until I looked at the box score. I think the reason that it seemed like a poor performance live was because he was guarded and needed to force his shots a bit. I remember him hitting some shots that would have been considered back selection if he would have missed them.

Rip was actually 7-14 from the field, but most of those FG "makes'' came in the first half and he was as bad as everyone else was in the 4th qtr.. Plus since he was a horrid 5/19 in the Seattle game including a lot of forced shots, it probably appeared that it carried over to the Celtic game.

That was just a bad 4th quarter. We got down and tried to double down. It was actually a pretty close game at one point and it looked like we might be able to pull it out... but then the wheels came off.

If we don't get HCA, then we would have to close them out in 6.

One thing I try to tell a lot of u young cats on the forum is "stop being so infatuated with stats and WATCH the game". Rondo 08 vs Rondo 07 is 150% better! rondo hands are the size of Herrmannn's. he's lanky and unorthodox like Parker and Ginobbli and they drive CB crazy. CB was awful vs Boston and if you ask me , any game that he has under 10 asists is a bad game. Defensively, he cant stop any guard penetration because he is still used to Ben being behind him.
What ticks me off is that Billups listens to the press say that he should dominate Rondo and he just looks full of himself out there. Just play our game and the matchup issues will come to him.

Finally, my biggest worry in games like this is how inept Flip looks on the sideline. How comes he paces the sideline for 48 minutes? That would tell me that you have to look like you're in control. That really coincides with his nervous tick syndrome.

No title, bye bye Flip...period.


You are right, Bro, Flip is a nervous tick as you say, running up down the sidelines with his arms either flapping or folded. If you notice games at the Palace, there is no seat for him to sit in...the assistant coaches and Abdenour take up seats next to the scoring table so Flip gets the same workout as the refs....

In contrast sore hip Phil Jackson only stands during timeouts to give Kobe hi-fives

and oh by the way ...I love stats 'cause I am an old auditor:)

That was just a bad 4th quarter. We got down and tried to double down. It was actually a pretty close game at one point and it looked like we might be able to pull it out... but then the wheels came off.

If we don't get HCA, then we would have to close them out in 6.

You all probably know by now that I go with the percentages and historical data.

If we do get to the ECF, we either need to sweep the opponent or take them out in five. Flip has never won game six of a conference final and never made it to game 7.

You all probably know by now that I go with the percentages and historical data.

If we do get to the ECF, we either need to sweep the opponent or take them out in five. Flip has never won game six of a conference final and never made it to game 7.

We'd better not have HCA then either... :)

Maybe Flip is really amazing in game 7's and has just never had the chance to prove himself.

Maybe Flip is really amazing in game 7's and has just never had the chance to prove himself.

Flip has only gone to game 7 once with the Pistons and that was vs the Cavs in the second round on 05-06 playoffs. He won that one....but we were down 3-2 and lucky to get to game 7 and win after taking game 6 by 2 pts...

Rondo 08 vs Rondo 07 is 150% better! rondo hands are the size of Herrmannn's. he's lanky and unorthodox like Parker and Ginobbli and they drive CB crazy.

I agree, he's a gamer. If he is willing to put in the time and get his jump shot, especially the longer ones, at least up to passable (think Kidd), he's going to be a force.

Flip has never won game six of a conference final and never made it to game 7.

True, but he's never had Game 6 of an ECF at home; all 3 of them (one with Minny, two with Detroit) have been on the road in a series where his team was already down 3-2. But if the Pistons play Boston in the ECF and go into Game 6 at the Palace with a 3-2 lead, I'll feel pretty good about their chances.

Gamer is a good way to describe Rondo. More than any point or assist totals, it was him fighting 3 Pistons for rebounds and winning. I forgot which analyst said it, but he's has gotten better each game against Billups. He in no way should be able to physically match up with CB but then again neither should Gibson or Jason Williams the last few years.

I'm still not seeing Rondo's performance against Billups as anything special.

He was worse in every conceivable stat.

And for all you true point guard lovers out there, you should be thinking assist to turnover ratio.

Billups 7:2. Rondo 1:1. No contest.

Chauncey got fouled more than 10 times. Pretty good for a slow point guard who never penetrates.