At NewYork March 7 7:30PM

tv: tv20, NBA LP
with local re-broadcasts on tv20 at 12am and 3am.

Records:
Detroit - 44-17, 21-12 on the road
Knicks - 18-43, 12-19 at home.

Injuries:
Detroit: none
Knicks: Zach Randolph - day to day. He was supposed to return on Wed aganist the Cavs.


ESPN writeup

....
Richard Hamilton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3330),Detroit's leading scorer at 18.0 points per game, has had two wildly different performances among his last three games at Madison Square Garden. He scored a career-high 51 points in the Pistons' 151-145 triple-overtime loss on Dec. 27, 2006, then had just three in the Jan. 13 defeat.

Hamilton's effort was the last 50-point performance against the Knicks (18-43) until Wednesday night, when Cleveland's LeBron James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3704) scored 50 to go along with 10 assists and eight rebounds in a 119-105 win. New York fell for the 15th time in 19 games.
....

ESPN - Detroit vs. New York - Preview - March 07, 2008 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=280307018)

They better play hard or Zeke's roughyins will use this as their playoff game.
105--92 Pistons
7.9 DR
Coming off a tuff loss to the Celts.

They better play hard or Zeke's roughyins will use this as their playoff game.
105--92 Pistons
7.9 DR
Coming off a tuff loss to the Celts.

They will, thats for sure. Even though the Cavs are the reigning champs in the East everyone seems to always save their best for our team.

They better play hard or Zeke's roughyins will use this as their playoff game.
105--92 Pistons
7.9 DR
Coming off a tuff loss to the Celts.

Me again. Sometimes, (more than not in our times) cultural reproduction shapes the broader dynamics of market-oriented institutions.

The lunch-pail crowd does not do well in higher probabilities of creative practices.

This is why Miami is not the West and Cleveland is not NY (MSG). Get my drift?

The Knicks blowout of the Pistons on 1/13 was because our guys were supposedly tired from an unexpected rough night in Charlotte the night before and our offense took the Knicks for granted and half heartedly tossed in 65 points.

Only Dice and Billups showed up that night with Amir dropping in 8 points to offset the dismal shooting by everyone else....that includes a 1-7 and 0-10 shooting performance by Tay and Rip and a combined 5-27 for the rest of the bench in extended garbage time.

The Knicks fans appreciated the victory, but they hope that the real Pistons show up this time and don't lay down to trying to save former favorite son's Zeke's job. :)

Injuries:
Detroit: none
Knicks: Zach Randolph - day to day. He was supposed to return on Wed aganist the Cavs.


If Sheed really has a bad ankle after the game at Boston, he should rest for this game. It's time to give Amir or Max a chance to start the game. And this is also a game where we see how Theo can help us.

Sit Sheed for this game.

If Sheed really has a bad ankle after the game at Boston, he should rest for this game. It's time to give Amir or Max a chance to start the game. And this is also a game where we see how Theo can help us.

Sit Sheed for this game.

A good idea. I hope that our rookies aren't down after their abysmal part in boston and they take boston game as a learning exp.

If Sheed really has a bad ankle after the game at Boston, he should rest for this game. It's time to give Amir or Max a chance to start the game. And this is also a game where we see how Theo can help us.

Sit Sheed for this game.


Be bold Flip, just start Theo is Sheed's place and see what he has left in the tank...so what if he doesn't know our plays...after all there are supposedly no plays ran for Amir either. If Theo is just here for insurance purposes, you might as well just bring in Samb

Be bold Flip, just start Theo is Sheed's place and see what he has left in the tank...so what if he doesn't know our plays...after all there are supposedly no plays ran for Amir either. If Theo is just here for insurance purposes, you might as well just bring in Samb

According to Flip, Sheed breaks-off from all of the plays anyway so the offense prolly wouldn't miss a beat.

According to Flip, Sheed breaks-off from all of the plays anyway so the offense prolly wouldn't miss a beat.

Flip said that?

Link please...........

Pistons assistant GM says Rattler may start for Sheed.

oh, and...

Chat is open!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Be bold Flip, just start Theo is Sheed's place and see what he has left in the tank...so what if he doesn't know our plays...after all there are supposedly no plays ran for Amir either. If Theo is just here for insurance purposes, you might as well just bring in Samb


Joe got my text message and had Flip start Theo. ...he got the first Pistons points on a dunk, played 6 min and was then replaced by AJ

Halftime;

I'm sorry but it's comical at this point. Dixon's "defense" was responsible for that run (the Knicks that is). 3 straight bad defensive possessions that put a teammate in an awkward position. Alot of energy and no result. It's no wonder Flip likes him.

Afflalo hasn't gotten off the bench, and i'm curious to see how much time he does get now that Rip had an emotional breakdown.

I give up. Flip will never "get" it.

Joe needs to give him just 10 players and that's it. If you give him a choice, he'll always make the worn gone.

Me again. Sometimes, (more than not in our times) cultural reproduction shapes the broader dynamics of market-oriented institutions.

The lunch-pail crowd does not do well in higher probabilities of creative practices.

This is why Miami is not the West and Cleveland is not NY (MSG). Get my drift?
-
The culture of the Knicks = lunch pail = blue collar.
Miami is more sophisticated than West teams ?
No Cleve is not MSG ?????
I must be a lunch pail kind of guy...

I must be a lunch pail kind of guy...
At the least, soup and sandwich. :MusicBigGrin:

Typical Pistons game of late.

The 4th quarter execution sucked. When it hit 9 i was thinking it will be 2 by a min left into the game. Sure enough 6-0 run. These last whaterver-0 runs are extrememly troubling as well as our inability to create anything resembling offense on the other end.

Flip's sub patterns continue to puzzle.

Amir should've played more. Dixon minus a few made shots was awful. Afflalo was solid though if he can't even get major PT when Rip is ejected it looks bleak. He showed he should play over Dixon even in that short stint.

Something is wrong with Dyess or he is just bad.

The only bright spot in this game was Theo.

edited to add; Stuckey was another bright spot who deserved more PT.

I guess you missed Stuckey having an excellent game, plus some solid scoring for JMax, aside from too many bricked FTs. Tay did a great job filling in for the missing production of the injured Sheed and the ejected Rip, with 28 pts total and a huge clutch basket in the last 10 seconds. The bench scored 46 points total!

Another tough game as a lower tier team gets up for the Pistons. Sheed is out resting his ankle and Rip decides to make it interesting by shooting off his mouth and getting sent to the showers early. We should have traded him to the Knicks for Crawford and Lee:stirthepot:

The Zoo crew made up for their "in awe" performance in beantown the other night by scoring 46 points with Stuckey having one of his best shooting games (6-9). Max was a +8, Johnson had 3 blocks and Dixon dished out 4 assists. Theo started for the injured sheed and had 2 dunks and two blocks and some intimidations.

Dice continues play like this is game 82 and Tay was once again our hero scoring 28 points and an impressive 9-9 from the line.

For the second time this week the Pistons score 50 points in the paint (20 above their average) and shoot exactly 50% from the floor. You can attribute that to only 8 three ball attempts as the zoo crew relies more on the high % shots than the starters...with No sheed in there our 3 ball attempts were down.

Pistons are now 27-1 when they score 100+ and have clinched a playoff spot.

Good game. Amazing what a difference playing the bench can make. Last time we played the Knicks, we got slaughtered. I laughed when the announcers were talking about missing Sheed and Rip. Gee, like what good did they do the last time we faced the Knicks. Not much. I was also amused as Kelser was saying how energetic the team was. At a moment when none of our starters were in the game.


Not to pick on you Oracle, but hey, I am going to pick on you in fun. Still think Stuckey is a situational player for the playoffs? Nope. This is one rookie who can play the game. First, his D is solid. Second, the way he shot tonight, you better expect just one thing - it will get better even yet. And Stuckey finds open players well and passes well. Pull up jumpers, getting to the basket some.


Dixon started the 2nd half after Rip was tossed for two techs arguing the same play. He did little in that 2nd half besides give up points to the other team. Although I think he did hit a triple in the 2nd half so he did something. His first half was better, with him making several alert plays. But nothing Afflalo can't do, and Afflalo plays so much better D its just not funny. We barely won this game. Without the 6 minutes of decent perimeter D by Afflalo there to start the 4th, this probably would have been another loss.


Amir had some nice moments. A few blocks in the first quarter after he was the first big off the bench. A couple of baskets on cut ins. A couple of free throws. I do wish both he and Maxiell would start hitting more free throws when they get the chance.


Maxiell made double figures in scoring. A couple of outside shots made, some dunks, a free throw or two. He did a decent job guarding Curry for a spell also.


Billups? Did he play in this one? Kind of overshadowed by the play of Stuckey in my opinion. Rip added a lot of energy when he was in, hitting some shots and making their defense really work hard to keep up with him. Them grabbing him to slow him down is what got him tossed when he complained.


Tay was the scoring hero. 28 points. He worked outside and in. Good solid job of scoring.


Hayes hit an outside shot. More importantly, he played a lot and did not muck it up too bad on D so that Tay could catch some rest.


Welcome back Theo. He played fine D on Curry for the most part, blocked a shot, and scored some on cuts into the basket. He airballed his lone outside shot. As I guessed, he did not play that much even though he started, coming out early, like at the 6 minute mark, in each half and then getting another stint later in each half.


Dyess gave us a worthless outside shot or two. Not even thinking it might help to go inside and draw fouls. He did have one of the keys to us winning though. He played less than usual. (And this is truly a good sign, considering Sheed was not playing? No, Dyess was just in foul trouble. I am sure Saunders would have messed this up if he could have.)


In all a good game. Another win. Clinched a playoff spot. Our youngsters all played, though Afflalo did not play enough and did not shoot enough. (He needs more in game practice.) A new player was added to the rotation, one who can help. (Theo). Even though I don't like seeing Dixon getting Afflalo's minutes, I still like the added depth he brings us, and that he played minutes tonight is not a bad thing.


In my opinion, our active roster should consist of the following 12 guys when the playoffs get here:


Billups, Stuckey.


Rip, Afflalo


Tay, Amir


Sheed, JMAX


Theo, Dyess


Dixon and Samb as the last two guys dressed.

I guess you missed Stuckey having an excellent game, plus some solid scoring for JMax, aside from too many bricked FTs. Tay did a great job filling in for the missing production of the injured Sheed and the ejected Rip, with 28 pts total and a huge clutch basket in the last 10 seconds. The bench scored 46 points total!

I mentioned Stuckey.

What is it with Rip and getting thrown out of MSG?

Bench PT by starter DNP/Ejected etc. works for me.

Very impressed with Theo, he is still very athletic. Still I am almost waiting for him to pull something, maybe we will get lucky and he will stay healthy.

Prince really stepped up in place of Rip, Stucky shot 6 for 9. Whats up with the low board totals for Maxiel? 2nd game in a row.

Be interesting when Sheed returns how Ratliff will be integrated.

Typical Pistons game of late.

The 4th quarter execution sucked. When it hit 9 i was thinking it will be 2 by a min left into the game. Sure enough 6-0 run. These last whaterver-0 runs are extrememly troubling as well as our inability to create anything resembling offense on the other end.

Flip's sub patterns continue to puzzle.

Amir should've played more. Dixon minus a few made shots was awful. Afflalo was solid though if he can't even get major PT when Rip is ejected it looks bleak. He showed he should play over Dixon even in that short stint.

Something is wrong with Dyess or he is just bad.

The only bright spot in this game was Theo.

edited to add; Stuckey was another bright spot who deserved more PT.

I would not worry about it. Most NBA games on the road are close. Can't blow them out everytime. Its good practice to win these close games, Prince and CB really stepped up when it counted. And they were able to do so because they had some solid bench help which kept them fresh. When you think about it almost every game in 04/05 was close and that really helped the team in the playoffs. Now we actually have a bench.

Nice gut win missing 1.5 starters. Only concern would be that the # 1 ranked defense in the league gave up 97 points. Have to guess that Rip and SHeed do play some defense when they in there concentrating not distracted and mad at the world for a bad call

What is it with Rip and getting thrown out of MSG?

I don't know. I think its good to stand up for yourself when you can't get a call. If the other team is allowed to hold Rip back so he can't move then he can't execute his game. Maybe the league will look into this and the next time he will get the call.

I mentioned Stuckey.

I think I replied before you edited your post to mention him.

Theo still looks like a real player. I can easily see him starting. One thing many of us are in agreement on is that Dyss's minutes should be cut whether they go to Maxiel, Amir or Ratliff. Its soon, but Ratliff has way more mobility than Dyss and is a bit bigger. Yes, he did get scored upon, but overall there was some defensive spark.

At any rate, Theo is no 5th big back up that the Detroit News reported. If he were that second rate, Joe wouldn't have gone after him the way he did. He may be the only hope as at least he is a vet and Flip might bring himself to let him have some of Dyss's minutes. Really, Amir, Maxiel and Theo should be a 3 big rotation with Sheed as our main big and Dyss brought in in certain situations to spread the defense with his jumper. Dyss should not be on the floor in the last few minutes because of defense.

Way too much Dice and Dixon in this one. Dice was absolutely terrible. Chucking nothing but 20 footers on offense, not rebounding, and playing zero defense. The 30mpg is clearly taking it's toll on this guy as everyone on the planet but Flip predicted.

I already don't get Flip's fascination with Dixon. He's incredibly undersized, forces more bad passes than anyone on the team, shoots nothing but J's, and gambles on defense. Afflalo and Rodney should be getting his minutes. Especially in this one, where Rodney was lighting it up from everywhere, and making good hustles plays left and right (back to back charges and crashing the glass).

Now that Theo's here, it's obvious he's going to get some burn (rightfully so). I just don't know where it's going to come from. Sheed will get his 30mpg. Both Max and AJ have unquestionably earned their 15mpg or so. The obvious answer is to cut down Dice's minutes to 15-20 at most, so that he can be healthy for the playoffs, but Flip is too far off in his own dream world to think that up. To him, a starter has to play 30+ minutes regardless. AJ will be Flip's ingenious plan, and the team will be worse off for it.

As for the game- Tay and Stuckey were the stars of this one. AJ and Chauncey were pretty good as well. Max gets left off the list because of 1 rebound in 30 minutes. That is sad.

I already don't get Flip's fascination with Dixon. He's incredibly undersized, forces more bad passes than anyone on the team, shoots nothing but J's, and gambles on defense. Afflalo and Rodney should be getting his minutes.


I'm hoping this is still the "we got a new guy, let's throw him out there and see what we got" phase. Like they did with Primos.

Now not only has the new-team-shooting honeymoon faded for Dixon, last night the new-team-I-can-dribble honeymoon was also going away. I think he's a better player than we've seen the past couple of games, but you're right, bring back Affalo.

In last years playoffs Dice caught fire. He is either terrible or he shoots 70 something %. Ratliff and Sheed on defense will be nice.

I was impressed by Theo. I was even more impressed that Flip moved him in and out of the line-up and didn't feel the need to play him for a quarter at a time. If he could continue doing that I would start him and split his minutes with Dyess. Max/Amir would backup Sheed with some time on the floor together as well. Theo brings a dimension that no one else does. I doubt Flip can pull this off though.

I like what Flip is doing with Stuckey and Dixon although it is a shame that it comes at AA expense. I think there is a good chance that Stuckey could be a major liability at times in the playoffs. Dixon, despite seemingly coming down with Flip Murrayitis here on the forum and being played out of position at the 2, will at least have some familiarity playing if called upon. To me, it was Dixon triggering the 2nd quarter run by chasing down loose balls/long rebounds and starting breaks.

A best case scenario for AA would be for him to earn leeway from the refs by playing. Given who he will be asked to guard and who he plays for, he probably wouldn't get that anyway. Playing Stuckey and Murray Dixon might be the way to go.

I too saw the lead dwindling at the end, the dumb fouls, the missed J's. You can almost set your watch by it at this point.

I was impressed by Theo. I was even more impressed that Flip moved him in and out of the line-up and didn't feel the need to play him for a quarter at a time.

Yeah. The way he subbed in Ratliff last night is pretty much exactly how I think Dice should be used. We have too many good bigs on this team to have Dice playing 30 minutes.

I was impressed by Theo. I was even more impressed that Flip moved him in and out of the line-up and didn't feel the need to play him for a quarter at a time. If he could continue doing that I would start him and split his minutes with Dyess. Max/Amir would backup Sheed with some time on the floor together as well. Theo brings a dimension that no one else does. I doubt Flip can pull this off though.

I like what Flip is doing with Stuckey and Dixon although it is a shame that it comes at AA expense. I think there is a good chance that Stuckey could be a major liability at times in the playoffs. Dixon, despite seemingly coming down with Flip Murrayitis here on the forum and being played out of position at the 2, will at least have some familiarity playing if called upon. To me, it was Dixon triggering the 2nd quarter run by chasing down loose balls/long rebounds and starting breaks.

A best case scenario for AA would be for him to earn leeway from the refs by playing. Given who he will be asked to guard and who he plays for, he probably wouldn't get that anyway. Playing Stuckey and Murray Dixon might be the way to go.

I too saw the lead dwindling at the end, the dumb fouls, the missed J's. You can almost set your watch by it at this point.

There is a decided problem with not playing Afflalo. Without his perimeter D, we become just a mediocre team. We are so far this season 26-4 when Afflalo plays 11 minutes or more for us. (and the losses came from situations where Flip tried not to play him and he ended up getting the minutes in garbage time during a blowout loss for us.)

If Afflalo plays 5 minutes for us or less, we are 8-7 for the season. This improves to 11-6 if he plays between 6 and 10 minutes. It improves further to 7-2 if he plays between 11 and 15 minutes. If he plays more than 15 minutes, we are 19-2.

If you like Dixon, and think he should play, then Hayes is the guy who should lose the minutes. (Letting Afflalo play some small forward.) (Or Rip playing some small forward with Afflalo backfilling the minutes vacated by Rip at shooting guard.)

I'm hoping this is still the "we got a new guy, let's throw him out there and see what we got" phase. Like they did with Primos.

Now not only has the new-team-shooting honeymoon faded for Dixon, last night the new-team-I-can-dribble honeymoon was also going away. I think he's a better player than we've seen the past couple of games, but you're right, bring back Affalo.

I'm seeing it more as Mo Evans; The Love Affair part 2. The fact that Flip clings to these type of players just shows he has no idea what winning basketball looks like.

Like Lee said, there really is a correlation between AA's min and our wins. There's alot to be said with having a great perimeter defender in your line-up. I remember in the beginning of the season how he started and seamlessly fit in to the point where some ppl were advocating Rip to come off the bench. He outplayed Dixon last night. This whole veteran over rookie thing makes no sense esp when the rookie is better.

-
The culture of the Knicks = lunch pail = blue collar.
Miami is more sophisticated than West teams ?
No Cleve is not MSG ?????
I must be a lunch pail kind of guy...

Nihilistic Knick crowd hates blue collar.

Wade goes West

LBJ goes to MSG

Yes there are those whispers.
Knicks are white collar ? Suits ? More reason to despise them. They expect instant karma?

There is a decided problem with not playing Afflalo. Without his perimeter D, we become just a mediocre team. We are so far this season 26-4 when Afflalo plays 11 minutes or more for us. (and the losses came from situations where Flip tried not to play him and he ended up getting the minutes in garbage time during a blowout loss for us.)

If Afflalo plays 5 minutes for us or less, we are 8-7 for the season. This improves to 11-6 if he plays between 6 and 10 minutes. It improves further to 7-2 if he plays between 11 and 15 minutes. If he plays more than 15 minutes, we are 19-2.

If you like Dixon, and think he should play, then Hayes is the guy who should lose the minutes. (Letting Afflalo play some small forward.) (Or Rip playing some small forward with Afflalo backfilling the minutes vacated by Rip at shooting guard.)

You mean to tell me that on top of being a Belichickian reviewer of film, you are also a statistician? Those are interesting numbers that I was not aware of.

As I said, I am not pleased that AA is losing minutes, but (for once) I kind of see where Flip may be coming from. You have to play Stuckey with the hope that something clicks, he learns to avoid O fouls or reaching in on D for instance, and he can back up CB in the playoffs. If he struggles, you got to go with Dixon. It would be tough to ask him to step in cold and run the team. It's not like he's been on the team for years ala Lindsey.

AA's D isn't as reliant on the other 4 to be successful. To a point it is easier to ask him to come in without having played and produce in his role. Again, don't get me wrong, with a coach they could probably figure out how to play them all. DET doesn't have that luxury though. They got Flip.

I absolutely would like to see some 3 guard line-ups though.

Theo has put a little giddy-up in my step. I was expecting to read 'Flip says Ratliff 15th man' in the papers this morning.

this thread wasn't up by the time i left...but i took my annual pistons road trip over the weekend and attended this game at MSG with some excellent seats. i'm tired and going to bed, but i'll have a nice recap (of what i can remember) tomorrow

okay so, it's hard to remember a whole lot, but i'll try my best:

MSG is a pretty cool arena. it has a very old feeling to it though, and it's very dark, just like chicago's. i don't like that aspect...or the skinny hallways in the concourse, small bathrooms, and so on. but the seats were great. we were in the lower bowl and it felt like box seats at a baseball game. the stadium was shaped oddly, where the lower bowl seats were very spread out, and the upper level felt like people were sitting on top of each other. either way our seats were excellent.

there were a large # of pistons fans in attendance, as well as some die-hard knicks fans who are as delusional as lions fans. 'well they only beat us by 4 and we were without zach randolph' was overheard. the knicks fans were actually very calm and respectful - the most we got was 'go home this is our house' and that was about it.

the game itself was pretty cool - i've now seen the 1st minutes for stuckey/afflalo/ratliff in person this season. all i really remember was that maxiell got everyone excited, and that stuckey really got into a groove and had an awesome game, knocking down shots along with taking charges.

unlike the palace, the ushers really push you out of the stadium quickly, and they are everywhere, and relentless. they really don't want anyone lingering around. even trying to exit the building, we were going down the escalator and it just shut off.

either way i had a blast and it was cool to see the pistons hang on to win.

TY Hoggie!