At Cleveland March 19th, 8:00 PM

TV20 Detroit HD, ESPN

The Cavs need to hold on to the 4th seed to ensure homecourt advantage in at least one series in the playoffs, because they do not play well on the road (16-20) having dropped their last four ( at Bulls, Nets, Wiz, Magic) games. This will be the first time this season the Pistons face Big Ben in his Cavs uni.

The only previous meeting between the Cavs and Pistons resulted in a 109-74 Pistons route which saw the Piston reserves erupt for 45 points, and LeBron leaving the game in the 2nd Q because of a finger injury back in November.

There are two games reamaining between these teams in the regular season, at home and away.

The Bulls almost swept the season. The only game we won was after the departure of Big Ben. Maybe Big Ben knows all our plays and he instructs other teams on how to react. If this is the case, we have problem with the Cavs.

The Bulls almost swept the season. The only game we won was after the departure of Big Ben. Maybe Big Ben knows all our plays and he instructs other teams on how to react. If this is the case, we have problem with the Cavs.

Good thing it usually looks like we don't even run plays against the Cavs.

I see this as a game where we establish our dominance with the technical foul. I see lots of frustration tonight.

Good thing it usually looks like we don't even run plays against the Cavs.

Isn't "clear out for Rip and stand around watching nailed to the floor" a play?

As long as the Cavs get less than 20 free throws, we will win this one.

Isn't "clear out for Rip and everyone else stand around watching as if nailed to the floor" a play?

edit

Just a remnder the last four losses the Pistons have suffered have been the last four Wednesdays dating back to Feb 20th. We are 10-0 on other days of the week since then.

Time to break the Wednesday hex and take care of business and let the Cavs know that their wins last May in the ECF were flukes...

My wife and I will be there tonight as I scored some tickets for her upcoming birthday. We'll be sitting a few rows behind the Pistons' bench cheering them on to what I hope is a dominating victory!

My wife and I will be there tonight as I scored some tickets for her upcoming birthday. We'll be sitting a few rows behind the Pistons' bench cheering them on to what I hope is a dominating victory!

Sounds awesome. Great seats for an away game.

My wife and I will be there tonight as I scored some tickets for her upcoming birthday. We'll be sitting a few rows behind the Pistons' bench cheering them on to what I hope is a dominating victory!

Have a good time and be sure to wear your Detroit Tigers cap:)

Sounds awesome. Great seats for an away game.

I went through the Cavs' "Flash Seats" site and was shocked to find those seats for just $20 over face value. My wife has been talking up this game for a few weeks but I keep telling her there's no way we can go because there's nobody to watch the kids, it's a school night and work night, blah blah blah...so she should be really surprised when she comes home tonight and the kids are at a friend's house and I tell her to put her Pistons shirt on! :)

i SAW pRINCE IN gUND aRENA(THATS RIGHT i SAID IT) and thats one perfect arena for a game. Downtown Cleveland looks good. There's a building size photo of BronBron out there( can u imagine his kid seeing that everyday?). Plus, there's the Jake across the street and the R-n_R Hall of Fame. Downtown Detroit is so screwed up because we dont have the Pistons downtown, The Wings JLA is too secluded from the bars, walking wise, and there IS NO Motown Hall of Fame.

Prince is soooo kool...:nerd2:

...so she should be really surprised when she comes home tonight and the kids are at a friend's house and I tell her to put her Pistons shirt on!

At my house, that usually means that it's business time. :love::lightsabersmiley:

i SAW pRINCE IN gUND aRENA(THATS RIGHT i SAID IT) and thats one perfect arena for a game. Downtown Cleveland looks good. There's a building size photo of BronBron out there( can u imagine his kid seeing that everyday?).

His kid already sees something like that every day:

An outer wall [of LeBron's mansion] will feature a limestone sculpture — a bas-relief of LeBron's head, wearing his trademark headband.

Vindy.com - LeBron's mansion: big home for big man (http://www4.vindy.com/content/national_world/323345659041724.php)

His kid already sees something like that every day:



Vindy.com - LeBron's mansion: big home for big man (http://www4.vindy.com/content/national_world/323345659041724.php)
gulp!


....dont u have seconds in your life when u could just HANG yourself?

........:hanged2:sighhhhhh...whatalife....

At my house, that usually means that it's business time. :love::lightsabersmiley:
Lmao, what has got into you!?

You're a laugh a minute lately..

i thought u r supposed to get her a gift not to you:MusicBigGrin:My wife and I will be there tonight as I scored some tickets for her upcoming birthday. We'll be sitting a few rows behind the Pistons' bench cheering them on to what I hope is a dominating victory!

Lmao, what has got into you!?


I don't know. I don't even have kids. I did get my wife a ball don't lie shirt though with a picture of Sheed. She thinks he's hirarious. Also, after watching one game, she suggested that he should establish a post presence first and then expand his range to pull his defender away from the hoop to improve the overall spacing and make room for Chauncey to drive. I explained to her that stupid comments like that are why men think chicks don't know anything about basketball.

i thought u r supposed to get her a gift not to you:MusicBigGrin:

The great thing is that she'll think it's a gift for her - she's been to a few games at the Palace and has been talking about how she wants to see the Pistons when they come to Cleveland!

Going to be interesting to see how them not having Hughes will effect their perimiter D. After the trade some were saying that the Pistons will have an easier time against the Cavs without Hughes.

and there IS NO Motown Hall of Fame.


Can't we count "Hitsville USA". Actually, many people would want it in Auburn Hills or another Suburb. Sadness.........

Chat is open!!!!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Well, that was a bunch of Sh** if I ever saw it. If this is the way they are going to play when it counts. COUNT ME OUT. Bad enough to hear nothing but BRON BRON BRON without the Pistons just giving them more to talk about.

Da** idiots

Great game. NOT!!!

Like having a root canal performed with a baseball bat!

Flat effort, flat and confused, outhustled, out smarted etc.

The refs were bad as usual in Cleveland, but not as bad as they have been in the past.

This loss is on the Pistons. They brought a "B" game, and got a "D" result.

Classic post-season flameout pre-season game.

Just a remnder the last four losses the Pistons have suffered have been the last four Wednesdays dating back to Feb 20th. We are 10-0 on other days of the week since then.

...

Well I hate to say it but what did the Pistons eat or do last night?

Wednesday 2/20 103-98 loss to the Bucks
Wednesday 2/27 103-98 loss to the Jazz
Wedneaday 3/5 90-78 loss to the Celtics
Wednesday 3/12 88-82 loss to the Sixers
Wednesday 3/19 98-73 loss to the Cavs

We won games on all non-Wednesdays since 2/20 which means our next loss is next Wednesday to the Raptors.

I haven't been impressed with Tay's D in a long, long time. Now, I understand that LBJ can make anyone look foolish on D, but it hasn't just been on James that I've been disappointed.

I don't know if it's positioning, angles, slow-footedness, lack of desire, or what. He just looks out of position, easily beaten off the dribble, late on help and unmotivated.

Frustrating game. Terrible execution. It's like the offense goes out the crapper whenever we play Cleveland. oh well. At least we play a few more no D running teams in the next few. Unfortunately, the next game's in 3 days.

Lmao, what has got into you!?

You're a laugh a minute lately..
Yeah, normally you're a bore a minute.
Now that was a backwards compliment if I've ever seen one.:pound:

Cleveland was clearly better. LBJ does what he wants against Detroit and even freakin' Varejao had some nice plays and hit a few J's.
For Detroit, I liked the fact that FlipS gave Stuckey some burn in the 4th quarter- he did ok I think. You can still see he needs more experience- just think about his stupid foul after LBJ made a pump fake.

WTF...at least it looks like I picked the right game to miss.

Not really upset at the loss because in any given game on the road you can lose especially playing a tough team at home in Cleveland. What aggrivates me is that you would have thought the Pistons would have came out a little more inspired tonite being that the Cavs eliminated them in last years playoffs. I'm more disappointed in our effort than the actual result. However, I like the fact we played our bench and Stuckey to me is looking more and more comfortable as each game goes by. If he keeps progressing he may be able to be part of the rotation come April. We are still a great team I just hope to God that we will make the neccessary adjustments come playoff time to maximize our talent and experience.

To those of you who are already counting the Pistons out and are absolutely sure they are doomed, WHY EVEN WATCH. If i knew a violent, drooling, savage beast was outside my apt. waiting to pounce on me as soon as i come out best be for damn sure I'm staying my ass inside. A RARE EXP POST.

Cuz they are fans? :confused:

Well, as bad as this game was, things could be worse.... we could be the Miami Heat.

They lost 96-54 to the Raptors tonight. They set a franchise "record" for fewest first half points (26), points in a game (54) and field goal percentage (20-of-78 for .256%). They were also 5-for-23 (.217%) from down town.

The good news is that they were .90% from the line (9-for-10).

Ouch.

I just don't understand how Flip can go to a post game press conference and say he "just didn't like the effort in the second half" when he went with a 7 man rotation in the second half and AA and AJ did not play. Tells me the coach did not attempt to use all his weapons to win the game and gave up. Energy and defensive presence are what AA and AJ are going to give you if given a chance.

Funny how he complimented Verejo's play in the second half for giving them extra possessions on hustle plays; when our hustle players di not get off the bench in the second half.

I have come to the conclusion that Dice is getting slower. He is losing his explosiveness more and more every game. We have 14 games to make a change. I would like to see Theo take Dice's spot and make Dice the 4th or maybe 5th big depending on opponent. The energy from Max, AJ and Stucky really help us avoid those long droughts when one of them is in.

The Pistons still have the second best defense in the league, but when they play smash down defensive teams like the Celtics and Cavs, they have problems with the matchups. The sixers defense has improved to the 7th best in the league and we struggled with them last week.

I still believe we can beat any team in the west (except maybe the Jazz:):yellowprison:) if we make it to the finals, but Celtics and Cavs will be a tough matchup on the way. I am thinking that despite the C's being the best team, we could take them out in a 7 game series, but the only we can beat the Cavs is with Labron and Varejo out of the line up. Tay can no longer stop Lebron and no one keeps an eye Varejo so he outhustles our guys to every loose ball.

I hate to be a pessimest in March, but the only way I see a ring this year is a 4-1 victory over the Wiz in rd 1; a 4-2 series win over the Magic in round 2 and a 4-2 series win over the Celtics in round 3. Facing the Sixers and Cavs in the first two rounds may prevent sixth straight trip to the ECF and an almost sudden pink slip for flip. :)

Flip failed to make the correct adjustment... again.

LB would have went small when we got down by double digits, and ran the Cavs off the floor(or tried to). Then he would have put in the bigs to finish them off.

Joe really needs to get a scorer on this team. RIP is a shooter, not a scorer, and in the 4th, NOBODY on this team wants the ball to take over the game.

Nobody want to LEAD, and that's the problem. No coaching leadership, and no floor leadership. Sheed talks a good game, but he won't put the team on his back and lead.

The Pistons still have the second best defense in the league, but when they play smash down defensive teams like the Celtics and Cavs, they have problems with the matchups. The sixers defense has improved to the 7th best in the league and we struggled with them last week.

I still believe we can beat any team in the west (except maybe the Jazz:):yellowprison:) if we make it to the finals, but Celtics and Cavs will be a tough matchup on the way. I am thinking that despite the C's being the best team, we could take them out in a 7 game series, but the only we can beat the Cavs is with Labron and Varejo out of the line up. Tay can no longer stop Lebron and no one keeps an eye Varejo so he outhustles our guys to every loose ball.

I hate to be a pessimest in March, but the only way I see a ring this year is a 4-1 victory over the Wiz in rd 1; a 4-2 series win over the Magic in round 2 and a 4-2 series win over the Celtics in round 3. Facing the Sixers and Cavs in the first two rounds may prevent sixth straight trip to the ECF and an almost sudden pink slip for flip. :)

Murphy might say you're an optimist(lol).

Wednesday 2/20 103-98 loss to the Bucks
Wednesday 2/27 103-98 loss to the Jazz
Wedneaday 3/5 90-78 loss to the Celtics
Wednesday 3/12 88-82 loss to the Sixers
Wednesday 3/19 98-73 loss to the Cavs

We won games on all non-Wednesdays since 2/20 which means our next loss is next Wednesday to the Raptors.

That's pretty weird.

I thought Cleveland looks really good tonight. We weren't missing easy shots, they were smothering us. Our D is just as good I believe, but they were at home and had the energy that we lacked.

It is still possible that they will fully embrace a defensive mindset with Ben and get better still. Whether is it Boston or Cleveland, we are going to find ourselves battling a very very good defensive team for our survival in the playoffs. We need a gameplan that works in those games.

I was wrong about the fouls. The refs pretty much let the teams play tonight and it didn't benefit us. I guess that theory only works when we are the better defensive team. 7 free throws for us? Not enough. And conversely, no Pistons had more than 2 fouls. Maybe we could have ratcheted up the pressure more in that case.

I'm not terribly upset by this loss, but I think that Flip should be worried about why it happened. It looked a little bit like what happened last year at Clevelant. All these easy wins against offensive minded teams in the next few weeks don't mean much in comarison.

We don't apparently have a coach. What coach would play Dyess and Theo together when Ilgauskas was not even on the floor. Ilgauskas is the only player on Cleveland who either is needed for. Why get that slow for nothing? (Talking about late 3rd quarter as we fell behind for good.)
Flip continues to struggle to replace Afflalo in the rotation. This time, a combination of using Stuckey and later Prince. Gee, you got an excellent defender, and your chief mission in life is to replace him just because he is a rookie.


Meanwhile, Rip does not get any rest hardly, and does horrible in the 2nd half. Matter of fact, the Pistons as a whole did horrible in the 2nd half. We do have a bench. What worked last night could have worked tonight. Limit the starters minutes in the first half, have them fresh in the 2nd half where games are generally won or lost.


Rip did start out 7 for 11. Hayes hit his first 2 of 3. That was it. No way he made up for all the points he gave up this time.
Amir played quite a bit in the first half, and looked quite helpful in providing help out D. He should have played a whole lot more in this one. (And Dyess had no business in the game at all. Theo or Amir should have started.)


Maxiell was off the bench early in the first half. We did fine with him on the floor. Why he was kept out so much in the 2nd half is way beyond me. Except we don't have a coach.


Ben Wallace plays pretty good D. So Sheed decided to take the rest of the night off and launch a bunch of threes. Not good.


Stuckey hit a couple of jumpers. Not bad really. Should have played more, especially to finish out the 2nd quarter. Billups was doing nothing special to warrent taking away developement time from Stuckey.
Dixon nor Afflalo played. Now they say Hunter will play the last 10 games. Too bad Joe and Flip are planning their 1st round exit.


Cleveland honestly did not look that good. On defense, sure, guys like Delonte and Ben can play, but on offense? Weak. Except for Bron. Why can't we defend against Cleveland? Flip will not play young players who can hustle and defend shooters. Flip likes offense, defense no. That is why Hayes gets to play. Even the scatter shot Dixon gets to play some games, cause Flip just does not care about defense.


Theo looked good for a moment or two. Blocked a shot on one end and hustled down the floor for the fast break dunk. One other block and that was it for the energy that a 34 year old can bring who is recovering from a bad back after 2 years not playing. Did I mention how active Amir looked on D?

didn't see the game, may or may not watch it later. good news is we have 2 more times against cleveland to try to work some kinks out.

I will throw this game away but yes, we do have to wonder about our match ups with Cavs and Celtics. We don't score against either well. This was a back to back which is an excuse this time. But do we have enough offense with the Flip sets against the good teams--a recurring question?

Have to agree with Delfino and Lee: Dyss is not a good match up much of the time. Z can do what he wants with him. Sheed played poorly period. But he wasn't alone. Ratliff still looked uncertain out there but would like to see if he can body up Z.

Also agree, no reason we can't get a defense to stop the Cavs. Maxiel looked the best out there this game but had limited time.

didn't see the game, may or may not watch it later. good news is we have 2 more times against cleveland to try to work some kinks out.

I am watching the 12am re-bradcast here. Normally I would not check the score but things are not looking good at the half. Looking at the box it does not look like anything positive can be taken out of this game and it does not look like anything was accomplished either. Just heavy mins for the starters during a humiliating loss.

I am not going to worry about it too much since the odds are against us seeing them in the post-season. But yes 2 more games to get it right against this team for prides sake and the only silver lining is that the last 2 reg season matchups mean more than the 1st 2.

-Perhaps there is something to these Wed games?

didn't see the game, may or may not watch it later. good news is we have 2 more times against Cleveland to try to work some kinks out.

I'll say. Next time around, I would use flat-out speed as a disruptive pattern against their tough defense. Case in point:

Use Stuckey, Dixon and AA with at least two of them playing at the same time. They should play 75% of the game with this combination.
Sheed stays in the paint with Ratliff. Both these big men can run. JMax substitutes for one them which means he should get at least 22-30 minutes of playing time. JMax must be able to move to be effective.
Rip continues to run. He can run the whole game. When not, then Hayes or Amir subs. Tay and Dyess can fit in here.
Tay plays one-quarter of entire game. Hayes and Amir spread his minutes between them . If Hayes is open, he will knock them down. This means those under the basket and in the paint, will get some rebounds on misses.My emphasis would be to limit (severely) Dyess and Tay....slow, slow, slow.

Here is your breakout (with a -/+2 for each total) and Dyess/Tay are substitutions in the total point mix:

Stuckey (10)
Dixon (10)
AA (6)
Sheed (10)
Ratliff (6)
Amir (8)
Hayes (12)
Rip (18)
CB (10)
JMax (10)You score between 85-100 Pt's and you beat Cleveland.

In short, because JD did not get his leader/slasher, one must substitute frenetic activity which will create distance on defensive pressure. This will only work if you run activity/athleticism for the whole game.

I can take the Pistons losing in this style, but not the way I saw tonight.

Nice recap Lee. I agree with your points.

I'd also add that, that attempt at playing zone in the 2nd half was absolutely ugly to watch.

Let me preface this post by saying i didn't watch the game. I tivo'ed it on the off chance we won, but was pretty sure of what would happen. It did. I watched the ESPN Box Score which was probably thouroughly more entertaining, and less frustrating that watching the actual game. I don't understand why we play the Cavs. Can't the networks just play Game 6 over an over again?. It's not like it would be much different.

I mentioned in another thread that this was going to be a playoff style game and we were going to see how much not playing AA or Amir extensively will bite us in the you know what. Theo should have only played when Z played. Dice should've played alot less. But apparently our coach doesn't notice that he can BARELY move. Big minutes for the starters.

CLE is slow as hell, and we didn't take advantage of it.

Every negative thought i have about Flip Saunders, his ability to make adjustments, find the right mix of players, and general coaching ability is always reiterated in games like these.

You could give MB d-league players that can play defense, and he would still use the same game plan, and we would still lose everytime.

Normally, i would torture myself and watch the game, but i've come to some sort of strange acceptance about this season. I just want it to be over so we can get rid of the :ballchain

At least this year we won't lose to the Cavs. That is the only positive i can come up with.

FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - LeBron takes advantage of Pistons' passivity (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7932264/LeBron-takes-advantage-of-Pistons'-passivity)

Long article but worth he read

Why doesn't Stuckey get a longer leash to attack off pick and rolls? That is what we needed all game long, and we only saw it once or twice. His ability to penetrate will decide a series against these 2 teams if they should face each other. If Flip lets him go to work instead of constant iso's for 20 footers, we've got a shot. If not, their defense just owns us. No one else can break down their D, and it turns into a brick-fest.

I guess Flip will just cross his fingers and hope we don't face them.

With 7 free throws attempted and less than 40% shooting, we obviously do not play agressive against these guys. I still see the possibility of facing these guys in the playoffs. Hopefully, somebody decides to drive the lane and draw some fouls when that series is played. Well, at least we never get injured.

With 7 free throws attempted and less than 40% shooting, we obviously do not play agressive against these guys. I still see the possibility of facing these guys in the playoffs. Hopefully, somebody decides to drive the lane and draw some fouls when that series is played. Well, at least we never get injured.


You think Cleveland will beat Boston in the playoffs?

The Pistons still have the second best defense in the league, but when they play smash down defensive teams like the Celtics and Cavs, they have problems with the matchups. The sixers defense has improved to the 7th best in the league and we struggled with them last week.

Excellent post, I just sent a similar mailbag question/statement to Langlois for the mailbag...

Let's wait and see how it's dismissed...

As I mentioned before, my wife and I made it to this game and we had a great time, even though the Pistons lost. We were six rows behind the Detroit bench, so that we were part of the normal in-game broadcast on ESPN. When we got home we FF'd through the broadcast and you could actually see us (her, mostly) at one point in the 3rd quarter when Devin Brown was called for an offensive foul for clearing out with his forearm. The camera switched to a Cavs fan reacting to the call and we are the fans in Pistons shirts behind him and to the left.

Just some quick observations from the game, without looking to the box score:

-IMO from the body language of both teams this was just a regular season game, nothing more.

-The Pistons started out strong, and were right around 50 fg% with just a couple minutes to go in the 2nd quarter when things started to go badly. They tried to feed Sheed in the post several times but he just wasn't hitting them.

-Ratliff was the first one in off the bench if I recall correctly, and he had an immediate impact in the first half. In the second half not so much.

-I was really excited to see Amir come in the game, but he made no impact on the game from my viewpoint. In fairness he didn't play much.

-Z and Dice seem very similar in that they both want to shoot that perimeter J. Only difference last night was that Z was dead-accurate with it. However, Dice played some nice D (especially a stretch early in the 3rd) and pulled down several boards.

-It seems like the Pistons should just shut the Cavs down when they put Sideshow Bob and Big Ben on the floor together, but Sideshow killed us on the offensive glass and cheap put-backs. Gotta box that guy out...

-The Cavs fans have embraced Big Ben. He got the second-loudest cheer during the introductions and loud cheers whenever he checked in. I even saw a Cavs fan with a "Fear the Fro" Cavs shirt - did they acquire the rights to that slogan along with Ben's contract?

-I liked when they tried to make LBJ play D on Tay, and Tay was able to back him into the paint quite easily, but they didn't try it much.

-Way too many 3 attempts, especially in the second half. In contrast, it didn't seem like the Cavs attempted more than 6 3s the whole game.

-To me it appeared that Flip was still experimenting with different groups out there. I remember at one point near mid-4th quarter I counted 3 bench guys on the floor, and Billups didn't come back in until 5 minutes were left. At around the 7 minute mark there was a stoppage in play and Billups started to get up from his seat and looked to Flip, but never got the signal and sat back down.

-I had 3 different Cavs fans ask me who was the guy in the suit with the ponytail. :) One of them was an older lady and she said "he looks like Fabio!"

-Sheed is fun to watch both in- and out-of-game. Near the start of the 2nd half he took of his warm-up shirt out on the court and tossed it up in the air towards the Piston bench. It hung in the air for a second and then fell down on Tay's head. As Tay pulled it away Sheed made a pouty-baby type face at him and laughed. :pound:

cleveland has a good chance of beating boston. someone else said they weren't afraid of any teams in the west, but they were of boston/cleveland and i agree. it's because their defense is so much better. i also agree that we need to try to run more against cleveland and use our quicker guys to put pressure on them.

flip said dyess was open and he wasn't getting the ball to take shots, but that's because his shot has been off for months and i don't think the guys trust him anymore to make them.

can someone tell me how ratliff played? i'm not in favor of giving him max's minutes, but i might be in favor of him getting dice's minutes against cleveland. i saw bits and pieces on tv but it looks like we were getting outrebounded badly, or not even going for boards, which is where amir could really help.

Amir did extraordinarily well on switches/help with LBJ. I'd love to see he and Dyess get cracks @ LeBron. His patented stiff arm move plus freakish athleticism would be less effective against those guys.

Dyess did very well last year on switches vs LBJ and the game 5 LBJ blow up was sans Dyess.


Seeing Arvis completely helpless vs Wally was very sobering. I'm a big gooney slow white dude and I'd take my chances vs Wally. Any type of screen seems to absolutely destroy Arvis' ability to tag his man.

The Rattler would get a d+ in my books, he was pathetic in tryting to block out Sideshow Bob, he missed an effing dunk, he didn't block any shots that I noticed, he looked pretty lost @ times.

He's big and strong and can certainly be more of a game changer than DD but last night was not a strong showing...

Dyess has regressed BIG TIME. Think about all he was doing in 05' and contrast that with now.

cleveland has a good chance of beating boston. someone else said they weren't afraid of any teams in the west, but they were of boston/cleveland and i agree. it's because their defense is so much better. i also agree that we need to try to run more against cleveland and use our quicker guys to put pressure on them.

flip said dyess was open and he wasn't getting the ball to take shots, but that's because his shot has been off for months and i don't think the guys trust him anymore to make them.

can someone tell me how ratliff played? i'm not in favor of giving him max's minutes, but i might be in favor of him getting dice's minutes against cleveland. i saw bits and pieces on tv but it looks like we were getting outrebounded badly, or not even going for boards, which is where amir could really help.

FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - LeBron takes advantage of Pistons' passivity (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7932264/LeBron-takes-advantage-of-Pistons'-passivity)

Long article but worth he read

Nice little piece. I like how he gives several specific examples, which is really rare in articles like this.

After reading that, I'm sort of reconsidering how much effort we put into this game. CB, Rip, Dyess, Hayes, Maxiell, and Johnson getting 0 free throws? Prince, Sheed, and Ratliff each had 1 trip to the line. Stuckey got an and-one. That is a total lack of effort. Sheed shot 8 threes and the rest of the team shot 9. Just think if each Pistons took 8 threes! That would be 80 3-point attempts for a possible 240 points.

I bet that Flip is thinking the following... 'you're probably not going to play the Cavs in the playoffs anyway. You try to prepare your team for the post season, but you don't want to show your hand, sort of like when you're doing magic tricks. You're in a position where your team is not making shots and your opponent is scoring more, which is the opposite of what you want to see have happen.'

If I have ever suggested that the NBA playoff seeding logic, which seems likely to put Cleveland out of our path until the conference finals, is flawed in any way, I hereby take it back.

Good job commish!

PistonFanInCavsTown, thank you very much for the live recap! It's excellent! :D

Let's wait and see how it's dismissed...
Sad, but true.

I bet that Flip is thinking the following... 'you're probably not going to play the Cavs in the playoffs anyway. You try to prepare your team for the post season, but you don't want to show your hand, sort of like when you're doing magic tricks. You're in a position where your team is not making shots and your opponent is scoring more, which is the opposite of what you want to see have happen.'

haha that's great. we should make a flip saunders sentence generator, where it converts all 1st person pronouns to 2nd and 3rd person, or mixes all 3.

As I mentioned before, my wife and I made it to this game and we had a great time, even though the Pistons lost. We were six rows behind the Detroit bench, so that we were part of the normal in-game broadcast on ESPN. When we got home we FF'd through the broadcast and you could actually see us (her, mostly) at one point in the 3rd quarter when Devin Brown was called for an offensive foul for clearing out with his forearm. The camera switched to a Cavs fan reacting to the call and we are the fans in Pistons shirts behind him and to the left.
-

I saw you. Who was that idiot Cavs fan who thought that wasn't a D-Brown push-off?

As I mentioned before, my wife and I made it to this game and we had a great time, even though the Pistons lost. We were six rows behind the Detroit bench, so that we were part of the normal in-game broadcast on ESPN. When we got home we FF'd through the broadcast and you could actually see us (her, mostly) at one point in the 3rd quarter when Devin Brown was called for an offensive foul for clearing out with his forearm. The camera switched to a Cavs fan reacting to the call and we are the fans in Pistons shirts behind him and to the left.

Just some quick observations from the game, without looking to the box score:

-IMO from the body language of both teams this was just a regular season game, nothing more.

-The Pistons started out strong, and were right around 50 fg% with just a couple minutes to go in the 2nd quarter when things started to go badly. They tried to feed Sheed in the post several times but he just wasn't hitting them.

-Ratliff was the first one in off the bench if I recall correctly, and he had an immediate impact in the first half. In the second half not so much.

-I was really excited to see Amir come in the game, but he made no impact on the game from my viewpoint. In fairness he didn't play much.

-Z and Dice seem very similar in that they both want to shoot that perimeter J. Only difference last night was that Z was dead-accurate with it. However, Dice played some nice D (especially a stretch early in the 3rd) and pulled down several boards.

-It seems like the Pistons should just shut the Cavs down when they put Sideshow Bob and Big Ben on the floor together, but Sideshow killed us on the offensive glass and cheap put-backs. Gotta box that guy out...

-The Cavs fans have embraced Big Ben. He got the second-loudest cheer during the introductions and loud cheers whenever he checked in. I even saw a Cavs fan with a "Fear the Fro" Cavs shirt - did they acquire the rights to that slogan along with Ben's contract?

-I liked when they tried to make LBJ play D on Tay, and Tay was able to back him into the paint quite easily, but they didn't try it much.

-Way too many 3 attempts, especially in the second half. In contrast, it didn't seem like the Cavs attempted more than 6 3s the whole game.

-To me it appeared that Flip was still experimenting with different groups out there. I remember at one point near mid-4th quarter I counted 3 bench guys on the floor, and Billups didn't come back in until 5 minutes were left. At around the 7 minute mark there was a stoppage in play and Billups started to get up from his seat and looked to Flip, but never got the signal and sat back down.

-I had 3 different Cavs fans ask me who was the guy in the suit with the ponytail. :) One of them was an older lady and she said "he looks like Fabio!"

-Sheed is fun to watch both in- and out-of-game. Near the start of the 2nd half he took of his warm-up shirt out on the court and tossed it up in the air towards the Piston bench. It hung in the air for a second and then fell down on Tay's head. As Tay pulled it away Sheed made a pouty-baby type face at him and laughed. :pound:

Great recap! Glad you had a great time.

Couple of other observations...

- Prince couldn't get around LBJ like he has been getting around other defenders lately. Couple of times early he tried to drive and ended up shooting four or five feet further out than usual, and missing.

- Ben still has some serious one-on-one moxie left in him. He kept Sheed off balance all night and by and large completely took his post game away. Nobody had to try and double and all the Pistons' shooters stayed covered. Maybe Sheed was having one of his lackadaisical nights, maybe Ben just made it look that way.

Sheed is a little bit like the bully who backs down when he's confronted. He'll talk all day long when he's beating up on a weak defender, but when someone like Ben stands up to him, it's 3-point city.

Sheed is a little bit like the bully who backs down when he's confronted. He'll talk all day long when he's beating up on a weak defender, but when someone like Ben stands up to him, it's 3-point city.

You must remember, those two have faced each other in practice several times I`m sure. I would say Ben knows Sheed probably better than any other defender in the league, giving him an advantage.

However, Sheed is talented enough where I don`t think Ben would actually shut him down. Slow him down perhaps.

That would be a nice matchup in the playoffs, stay tuned!!!!!!

Sheed is a little bit like the bully who backs down when he's confronted. He'll talk all day long when he's beating up on a weak defender, but when someone like Ben stands up to him, it's 3-point city.

He does enjoy beating up weak defenders, but still, it isn't all that often you see him just taken out of the post game by someone other than himself. When the game turned last night in the last half of the second, he was 1-4 inside the arc and 0-2 outside, and my recollection is that Ben had a lot to do with that.

Of course, Sheed's 1-6 exactly matched the rest of the team's shooting so there is some blame to go around.

Billups talked about how the team got static and settled for jumpers as the problem. If that is so easy to recognize why don't they do something about it? That is what kills us in nearly every loss and in the playoffs. Shouldn't they have a plan ready when they see this happening? When something is clearly going wrong, why wouldn't they change it.

I saw you. Who was that idiot Cavs fan who thought that wasn't a D-Brown push-off?

He pushed off on Sheed, right? Anyway Sheed or whoever was being pushed off was between us and D-Brown so that you couldn't see what happened until they showed the replay.

It was funny though because even after the replay there was a buncha whinin' all around us and I was demonstrating out loud how he was clearing out with his arm, and all the while my wife was shooshing me for fear of the Cavs fans turning on me. I said I didn't care, I had the rulebook on my side. :)

That guy and his wife actually talked to us for a few minutes after the game and we had a decent discussion about the current playoff seeding and how Detroit was in a good spot right now. They even wished my wife a happy birthday. All in all my experience as a fan of the opposing team was pretty positive - though this was a regular season game.

Billups talked about how the team got static and settled for jumpers as the problem. If that is so easy to recognize why don't they do something about it? That is what kills us in nearly every loss and in the playoffs. Shouldn't they have a plan ready when they see this happening? When something is clearly going wrong, why wouldn't they change it.

Billups phrases it like it was something the Pistons were doing rather than something that was being done to them. Did they "get static" or did the Cavs not let them run free and make cuts, shut off penetration, etc.?

It was interesting in the pre-game when they asked Ben how do you beat the Pistons. He said there are two specific keys:

1. Do not let Rip going early.

2. Attack Sheed. Make him use energy defensively.

It was interesting in the pre-game when they asked Ben how do you beat the Pistons. He said there are two specific keys:

1. Do not let Rip going early.

2. Attack Sheed. Make him use energy defensively.


Looks like we need to hire Ben as an assistant coach when he retires and replace Flip with the Fox's Charley Rosen who was able point out all of the Pistons flaws as well punctuate what we should have done to attack Labrons lack of defense.

-The Cavs fans have embraced Big Ben. He got the second-loudest cheer during the introductions and loud cheers whenever he checked in. I even saw a Cavs fan with a "Fear the Fro" Cavs shirt - did they acquire the rights to that slogan along with Ben's contract?


Thats funny. Yes I do believe it comes along with the contract.

Too bad we could not have thrown a young althletic offensive rebounder out there as thats what gives Ben trouble. Well I guess we did for 4 mins.

Also the Cavs were only 5-5 in their last 10 going into this so its not like they have been burning up the league since the trade. The Pistons swept the seasonal series last year and look how much of a difference that made in the playoffs.

If i do my math right, the Pistons did not win in Chicago until Ben left. Pistons called it buddy ball. Ben is with the cav's. Buddy ball had a lot to do with this loss. The post season is where the Buddy ball ended. Hopefully that will be the case in the Post season. I would like to see "Buddy Ball" gone in the last to games. I agree with the bad coaching as well. When he saw the starters were not going to compete, he should have cleared the bench.

This is the game that sealed the fate of the Pistons: NBA ECF runner ups!

Why?

1. They are the "Butch from the Little Rascals" of the NBA. And without Ben, now everyone knows it. If it wasnt for the fact that Howard doesnt have a Rick Mahorn on his team yet (i.e. maxiel, Blount, Perkins) the Magic would beat us , too. No way this team beats Boston or Cleveland.

2. Our coach is a wimpy sissy and other 'coaches' know it. There is nothing Flip will do to fire up or SCARE this team into winning. It 'really' is like when it gets tight, Billups just does what he feels and SHEED doesnt even listen yo Chauncey.
We won a championship and made the finals backtoback because of LB and LB only...and these airheads just dont get it.

3. This team NEEDS Ben Wallace. Sheed needs him. McDyess needs him. They lost their identity when they lost him. Replacing him with a slamdunking Maxiel is not and does not change a truth.



sighhhh...

What this team needs is a new coach and to a lesser degree Amir Johnson. It was so obvious we were winning with him and partly Aaron in the line-up. The PHO/UTAH game were two good contrasting examples.

I know that once it got closer to the PO's or the PO's, the rotation would shrink, and Flip being the idiot that he is would not realize which players were critical to our success.

It's not suprising anymore, but still as frustrating. Someone in the Pistons org. needs to personally call LB so he can whip some "right way" back into this team.

The more i see AA sit on the bench while Flip struggles to find a back-up SG, the more irritated i get. I just don't want to watch our "big games" anymore.

Amir has now surpassed Chauncey Billups in terms of +/- while on the court (per given time period). So, we have officially done better with Amir on the court than any other individual player.

We foul way more when Amir is out there, but we block 11% of the shots and hold our opponent to an unusually low FG%. This is where stats are useful. Coaches notice the cons of the young player, but they don't see that the pros more than make up for it.

haha that's great. we should make a flip saunders sentence generator, where it converts all 1st person pronouns to 2nd and 3rd person, or mixes all 3.

It makes it harder to challenge what SOMEONE is doing if they can play it off that their actions are what EVERYONE does or would do.

Almost as bad as the fans who 99% of the time use "We" when their team is wining and go with "They" when things are bad.

If i do my math right, the Pistons did not win in Chicago until Ben left. Pistons called it buddy ball. Ben is with the cav's. Buddy ball had a lot to do with this loss. The post season is where the Buddy ball ended. Hopefully that will be the case in the Post season. I would like to see "Buddy Ball" gone in the last to games. I agree with the bad coaching as well. When he saw the starters were not going to compete, he should have cleared the bench.

Yep we've sucked against every team I'd consider an excellent defensive team with the exception of SAS and they were sans Bowen for one of the 2 games.

That was my mailbag ?/statement for Langlois.

Almost as bad as the fans who 99% of the time use "We" when their team is wining and go with "They" when things are bad.

wow i've never thought of that, but i bet i've been guilty of it. definitely something to pay attention to in the future.

wow i've never thought of that, but i bet i've been guilty of it. definitely something to pay attention to in the future.

I wasn't singling you out and it's only natural.

One, just has to try to say "We" after a loss and "They" after a win, if one isn't going to be very consistent with either using always "We" or "they".

oh i know you weren't singling me out, i was singling myself out :D

WE all like to take credit for winning but as soon as THEY lose, WE get off the bandwagon . I often change my WE's to just The Pistons and won't take credit for a win or a loss, because Flip always gives me a coaches decision DNP....:MusicBigGrin:

"When we don't make shots, we put our defense at a real disadvantage," Prince said. "We can't get back and set up like we want. Cleveland played good defense, and we didn't make shots."


Looks like Dolphin has won Prince over.

That quote made me so angry.

Flip has totally killed the defense leads to offense, defense first worry about offense later mentality.

"I can't put my finger on it," Billups said after Wednesday's loss.
But he and several other Pistons suggested a remedy.

"At some point, we have to speed the game up," Billups said. "They are a lot like us. If you walk it up and allow their defense to get set, they will cause you a lot of problems. They are long, athletic and they can rebound. They can really cause you problems if you play at a slow pace.
"I think we need to pick the tempo up and attack the basket."


As others have mentioned, this is probably a good idea.

Quote:
"I can't put my finger on it," Billups said after Wednesday's loss.
But he and several other Pistons suggested a remedy.

"At some point, we have to speed the game up," Billups said. "They are a lot like us. If you walk it up and allow their defense to get set, they will cause you a lot of problems. They are long, athletic and they can rebound. They can really cause you problems if you play at a slow pace.
"I think we need to pick the tempo up and attack the basket."
As others have mentioned, this is probably a good idea.

If our captain could have only known it until after this game, we are in trouble.
If our coach is going to find the "best" mix in coming remain season games in the stretch like some media said, we are in more trouble.
Mr. Saunders, where're we going ?

Detriot, we have a problem, uhm, we have problems.

I just dont get it. This Cavs team was missing 4/5 of the D it had last year:

GOODEN
HUGHES
GIBSON
MARSHALL

and got back:

WALLACE
WEST
SMITH
SCERZBIZKAK ...hahaha

and kept:
JAMES
Z
SISSAY
BROWN

and they're a 'great' defense?? HELL2THENAW!!

This team is just in the Pistons heads like the Nets were. They'tr like little annoying children who we seem afraid to 'smack in the head when they spill their milk"(see Planes, Trains and Automobiles). Thats why we can beat the Pacers(of OLD) the Heat and the Spurs and Lakers. But we cant handle Cleveland?

I'm tired of this LeBron mess. He's one guy. Kobe is supposed to be the best BUT HE's one guy and has 0 rings sans The Big Cactus. Pistons need to triple LeBron (which they are too 'manly' to do) or let him get his 40 and attack him constantly when he's on Defense.


Just tired of this Cav D crap...the best thing to happen to us is if Cavs/Celts meet in the 2nd roundand they beat each other to death!

Quote:
"I can't put my finger on it," Billups said after Wednesday's loss.
But he and several other Pistons suggested a remedy.

"At some point, we have to speed the game up," Billups said. "They are a lot like us. If you walk it up and allow their defense to get set, they will cause you a lot of problems. They are long, athletic and they can rebound. They can really cause you problems if you play at a slow pace.
"I think we need to pick the tempo up and attack the basket."


If our captain could have only known it until after this game, we are in trouble.
If our coach is going to find the "best" mix in coming remain season games in the stretch like some media said, we are in more trouble.
Mr. Saunders, where're we going ?

Detriot, we have a problem, uhm, we have problems.

By the time, the last time I checked, Tay has been playing great at PG everytime when he was told to take it.

As others have mentioned, this is probably a good idea.

This would be a remedy to a lot of teams we face. We are longer and quicker then alot of our opponents.

This would be a remedy to a lot of teams we face. We are longer and quicker then alot of our opponents.

Longer? Yes. Quicker? Doubtful. Quickness off the dribble is our biggest weakness.

All you need to run is athletic quick bigs, and some quick guards or guards that are good at running the break. In fact you don't even need all the players one the floor to be quick.

We can and should run more against BOS/CLE; not always but be selective with it. It would solve alot of problems, but in order to do that Flip has to give Stuck/AA/Amir/Max extended PT esp with Sheed and Tay. Sheed is adept at the outlet pass, and Tay is great at running/finishing on the break. What the Zoo Crew was adept at was playing great D, and getting out in transition. That's where a majority of our scoring in our big wins was coming from. So this our defense not being the problem is really the problem. Instead of depending on making eveyr shot so you can set up; doesn't it make more sense to let the defense create some of the offense; relying on defense will win you games in the PO's.

If we were making adjustments and losing that would be one thing, but to do the same BS over and over again is a/ stupid coaching and b/ makes me feel like an idiot for watching.

All you need to run is athletic quick bigs, and some quick guards or guards that are good at running the break. In fact you don't even need all the players one the floor to be quick.

We can and should run more against BOS/CLE; not always but be selective with it. It would solve alot of problems, but in order to do that Flip has to give Stuck/AA/Amir/Max extended PT esp with Sheed and Tay. Sheed is adept at the outlet pass, and Tay is great at running/finishing on the break. What the Zoo Crew was adept at was playing great D, and getting out in transition. That's where a majority of our scoring in our big wins was coming from. So this our defense not being the problem is really the problem. Instead of depending on making eveyr shot so you can set up; doesn't it make more sense to let the defense create some of the offense; relying on defense will win you games in the PO's.

If we were making adjustments and losing that would be one thing, but to do the same BS over and over again is a/ stupid coaching and b/ makes me feel like an idiot for watching.

Problem is that your proposed "team" will be badly outmuscled( read: opponents get easy baskets in the paint, lots of foul shots and offencive rebounds), so I'm afraid it is not a good option. Bos can be overunned only then when they do not take things seriously, that explains their losses where they allowed 100+ points.

Okay, I have a simple question to throw out here. I taped this Detroit/Cleveland game and have yet to make the time or find the will to watch it. It seems like as I get to be more of a fan, I don't handle disappointment very well. So...should I watch this game? I mean will I learn anything new or important about our team by watching it, or have you guys pretty much covered it in this threadz? Because I really never watch LeBron, but I would be willing to suffer if it would help me in my Pistons fan-dom. Whaddya-think?

Also if the consensus is that this game is probably the way we will handle the playoffs, then I'd rather have my bubble burst now then later. I was just sure we would have an young active bench and rested legs this time around. So...I'll cue it up and then wait for anyone's input. Thanks.

Okay, I have a simple question to throw out here. I taped this Detroit/Cleveland game and have yet to make the time or find the will to watch it. It seems like as I get to be more of a fan, I don't handle disappointment very well. So...should I watch this game? I mean will I learn anything new or important about our team by watching it, or have you guys pretty much covered it in this threadz? Because I really never watch LeBron, but I would be willing to suffer if it would help me in my Pistons fan-dom. Whaddya-think?

Also if the consensus is that this game is probably the way we will handle the playoffs, then I'd rather have my bubble burst now then later. I was just sure we would have an young active bench and rested legs this time around. So...I'll cue it up and then wait for anyone's input. Thanks.

Typical overreaction, nothing more. I deliberately avioded visiting this page for some days cuz nothing reasonable you can hear from fans who are closer of commiting "collective suicide".

Problem is that your proposed "team" will be badly outmuscled( read: opponents get easy baskets in the paint, lots of foul shots and offencive rebounds), so I'm afraid it is not a good option. Bos can be overunned only then when they do not take things seriously, that explains their losses where they allowed 100+ points.

I'm not saying make it an all the time thing, but use it frequently with the bench as well as the starting unit.

I don't really see how a Sheed/Amir frontline will get allow a team to get easy baskets in the paint, or give up O rebounds. In fact that seems to be a problem when we have our supposed "muscle" guys in. I'm not advocating small ball or running all the time. I'm saying we should make a conscious effort to push tempo selectively, and drive to the basket, and also take advantage of the Zoo Crew (W/ Sheed). They were playing fantastic defense (perimeter esp). When your not letting 50 players get into the paint, there's alot less oppurtunity for your bigs getting out of position. Alot of those easy baskets we give up are due to giving up tons of dribble penetration. Of course we'd have to match-up accorrdingly when there is more than one dominant post presence, but honestly who has that ??, and in the case of playing aginat Shaq/Amare, Max/Amir seemed to handle it well enough (although i don't recall if they played much together). Amir got otmuscled by Amare some, but that was in GT, and Sheed wasn't in the game.

I see Sheed/Amir or Sheed/Max being a better combination against Z/Varejeo or Z/Ben than Sheed/Dyess, or even worse Varejeo/Ben vs Dyess/Theo.

In fact the line-up of Chauncey/AA/Tay/Sheed/Amir would probably be a very successful lineup againt CLE or BOS for that matter.

In the games against CLE/BOS, we were killed by penetration/or lack of ability to close out on shooters. We were outrebounded with our "big" bigs. So it seems that a/our frontline is too slow and b/our muscle guys need to work on their muscles apparently. Solving this or at least tempering it is a fairly easy solution. Now if were going to stick to Dyess playing 40 min and 65 year old Theo being our energy guy off the bench we're screwed.

Typical overreaction, nothing more. I deliberately avioded visiting this page for some days cuz nothing reasonable you can hear from fans who are closer of commiting "collective suicide".

What will you say when this happens in the PO's ?

Okay, I have a simple question to throw out here. I taped this Detroit/Cleveland game and have yet to make the time or find the will to watch it. It seems like as I get to be more of a fan, I don't handle disappointment very well. So...should I watch this game? I mean will I learn anything new or important about our team by watching it, or have you guys pretty much covered it in this threadz? Because I really never watch LeBron, but I would be willing to suffer if it would help me in my Pistons fan-dom. Whaddya-think?

Also if the consensus is that this game is probably the way we will handle the playoffs, then I'd rather have my bubble burst now then later. I was just sure we would have an young active bench and rested legs this time around. So...I'll cue it up and then wait for anyone's input. Thanks.

I caved and watched it. I was dissappointed, but i'm a big advocate of the bench and i get really frustrated at the rotations. In all honesty to me it was like watching a repeat of Game 6; the only brightspot was Stuckey getting some important min; so i guess if your looking for our young active bench, you're going to be dissappionted. It is interesting for the sake of i guess dissecting our new match-ups V CLE, and if you love Ben he played well . . .

I'm not saying make it an all the time thing, but use it frequently with the bench as well as the starting unit.

I don't really see how a Sheed/Amir frontline will get allow a team to get easy baskets in the paint, or give up O rebounds. In fact that seems to be a problem when we have our supposed "muscle" guys in. I'm not advocating small ball or running all the time. I'm saying we should make a conscious effort to push tempo selectively, and drive to the basket, and also take advantage of the Zoo Crew (W/ Sheed). They were playing fantastic defense (perimeter esp). When your not letting 50 players get into the paint, there's alot less oppurtunity for your bigs getting out of position. Alot of those easy baskets we give up are due to giving up tons of dribble penetration. Of course we'd have to match-up accorrdingly when there is more than one dominant post presence, but honestly who has that ??, and in the case of playing aginat Shaq/Amare, Max/Amir seemed to handle it well enough (although i don't recall if they played much together). Amir got otmuscled by Amare some, but that was in GT, and Sheed wasn't in the game.

I see Sheed/Amir or Sheed/Max being a better combination against Z/Varejeo or Z/Ben than Sheed/Dyess, or even worse Varejeo/Ben vs Dyess/Theo.

In fact the line-up of Chauncey/AA/Tay/Sheed/Amir would probably be a very successful lineup againt CLE or BOS for that matter.

In the games against CLE/BOS, we were killed by penetration/or lack of ability to close out on shooters. We were outrebounded with our "big" bigs. So it seems that a/our frontline is too slow and b/our muscle guys need to work on their muscles apparently. Solving this or at least tempering it is a fairly easy solution. Now if were going to stick to Dyess playing 40 min and 65 year old Theo being our energy guy off the bench we're screwed.

Very nice ... on the paper. In a reality they(Chancey/AA/Tay/Sheed/Amir) will see bad turnovers or clock winding down and desperate 3pt shots from Sheed. And AA gets his rookie calls when tries to defend lebron.

Kim no need to watch it, some of it was a rehash of last years ECF and you don't ever want to watch that any more as we are still get reminders of it at least once a week since last June. Hopefully Joe showed the game to Flip and the players Thursday and Friday to punish them. In the meantime, it's time to move on to the next game.
Happy Easter, Go Pistons