Toronto April 13th, 1:00 PM

TV - ABC

ABC decided to pick this game up as the Raptors could move up or down in the EC playoff picture and the Pistons could possibly clinch HCA in the Finals (assuming they make it) with a win.

Celts were 24 and 5 against the west.
Pistons were 19 and 8 against the west.
That has nothing to do with the Raps. But winning this game with the starters going ~ 25 mim. each would be fun. Considering what's on the line 8.4 DR.

This should be the tuneup games now. RATCHET UP BOYS!!

Hard play by starters, including D in the 1st and 3rd and then the zoo crew for the 2nd and 4th.

We sooooo own the Raptors.

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Holy crap Zoo Crew!

Does anyone else remember one of the last games of the 2007 season against the Raptors, where the starters built up a pretty big lead going into the fourth quarter and then handed it off to the bench? They crashed and burned. Couldn't make any shots, and the Raptors carved them up like a turkey.

But now, this year?

Not gonna happen. I think we're ready for the playoffs, guys.

I think we're ready for the playoffs, guys.

Uh, yeah!!!!:whoo:

Stuckey or JMAX, who to start with. Tough call.

No, I will start with complementing Flip on his coaching. Darn good today. Not for a second would he give in to the "big game" theory. He played to prepare for the playoffs. Great job Flip.

Now JMAX. JMAX is not just on top of his game, he is at an all time high for him. Never have I seen JMAX so comfortable, so in command, in a game. And he had all his legs today. He was going up and over people with a relaxed ease born of getting a ton of playing time. Good job Flip for that too. JMAX is going into the playoffs well rested, with his outside shot dead on, and with the confidence to take his time and make his shots.

Stuckey was our leading scorer with 20 or so. He made an outside shot or two, finished inside some, but mostly got his points at the line. I believed he missed just one free throw out of quite a few taken. Stuckey was just blowing by people today. Quite a game. And another bench player at his peak, ready for the playoffs to start today.

Amir did not do anything special really. His highlight on offense was that nice pass inside to JMAX for a dunk. Just good solid D, staying right with Bosh, one fine offensive player. Sure, Bosh still scored some, but they were very well contested shots when Amir was defending him. Not that Theo did a bad job either.

Our older bench players, Theo and Hunter, also got some burn to get ready to contribute. Theo broke loose for a score inside off a pick and roll. Hunter canned a few shots. Both played good D. Two more players on track for the playoffs.

Our starters? Rip hit most of his shots to start the game, he is ready. Billups is still nailing his threes. Sheed is still shooting outside too much. Dyess is hitting some, missing some. Tay was mostly a no show today on offense. As a group, they really took too many outside shots. But hey, the main thing is that they did not play much. Our starters are a fine group of players, and they are all of them quite well rested, yet staying involved enough to keep the rust off. Pretty much just right. (Though I still say Tay should take a game off and relax, forget the streak.)

Hayes hit a shot. He did not seem to hurt us that bad on D. But more good news here. For the second game in a row, Afflalo got time at small forward. Much of the 4th quarter for instance.

Afflalo needs more shots. He is not at the top of his game by a long shot on offense. Just like those who would characterized Maxiell as a poor shooter, without seeing him take a lot of shots to get comfortable first, people who think Afflalo can't shoot are wrong. There are still two games to go. Still time to give Afflalo another 20 outside shots in game time situations. He is not comfortable out there. He needs to get there. Meanwhile, his defense, even on a very quick guard like Ford, continues to be exceptional.

Afflalo did contribute two outside shots made (one in the lane) and one putback after his rebound. His rebounding is decent too.

The annoucers made a mistake that I often do myself. When Stuckey goes up for a shot or to collect a rebound, I often mistake him for Maxiell. Stuckey is a taller guard, with lots of strength.

Great game. Good win, putting us just one more win from clinching 2nd best record in the league. Everything is on schedule for us to win a championship. The only thing I think is not done yet is giving Afflalo a lot of shots, and he did get several today. But I am not that worried on that score, as Afflalo can always to continue to defer to other shooters if needed.

GO PISTONS!!!!!

One thing for certain..Stuckey and Max are playoff ready and should get at least 15-18 mis in each of the playoff games. The others are still inconsistent as Alf is still looking for his outside jumper and AJ is still looking for garbage. We can rely of both of their defenses, but AA should try driving more until he can get that outside shot back.

Hayes has to bring it in the 2nd or his time will be limited to 10 mins or less. Dizon and Hunter can be used for spot duty.

Nice that Flip went with the zoo crew to close the game they responded. One thing for sure, this is the team we need to face in the first round and dispose of them in 5.

But Maxiell and Stuckey helped Detroit’s young second unit outplay the Toronto regulars. For most of the quarter, the Pistons were using five players— their “Zoo Squad”—who average just 22.8 years of age.Maxiell, Stuckey lead Pistons in 4th quarter of 91-84 win over Raptors - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2008041308)

The big question, for me, going into the playoffs... Is Flip going to continue to let Stuckey play his game when the games count, or will he go back to starter iso-ball when he's on the floor? The bench is just so much more effective when Stuckey gets consistent chances to attack the D. He's the only guy on the team that can get into the lane on every single possession. To not utilize that would be a huge mistake. If he's back to spotting up and watching Rip/Tay hoist 20 footers, I like our chances much less against teams like the Celtics/Lakers/Spurs/Cavs.

One thing for certain..Stuckey and Max are playoff ready and should get at least 15-18 mis in each of the playoff games. The others are still inconsistent as Alf is still looking for his outside jumper and AJ is still looking for garbage. We can rely of both of their defenses, but AA should try driving more until he can get that outside shot back.

Hayes has to bring it in the 2nd or his time will be limited to 10 mins or less. Dizon and Hunter can be used for spot duty.

Nice that Flip went with the zoo crew to close the game they responded. One thing for sure, this is the team we need to face in the first round and dispose of them in 5.

You're too benevolent: 4 is more than enough.

Numbers don't do Afflalo justice (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/SPORTS0102/804140383)

A McCosky article dedicated to AA praising his defense :twitch: (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/SPORTS0102/804140383)

Wonder who really wrote that.

I have to pretty much agree with Lee on this one. Bench got plenty of time, plenty of work against the starters. Afflalo did seem tentative at the end passing up open shots. He should get better with more offensive chances. As for me, he'd be a better choice at the 3 against the smaller SF, especially if Hayes continues to struggle with his shot.

Numbers don't do Afflalo justice (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/SPORTS0102/804140383)

A McCosky article dedicated to AA praising his defense :twitch: (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/SPORTS0102/804140383)

Wonder who really wrote that.
A broken clock is right twice a day.

I have to pretty much agree with Lee on this one. Bench got plenty of time, plenty of work against the starters. Afflalo did seem tentative at the end passing up open shots. He should get better with more offensive chances. As for me, he'd be a better choice at the 3 against the smaller SF, especially if Hayes continues to struggle with his shot.


probably got chewed out for the 15 moves he put on and then forced the shot from the corner... Hubey commented on it... AJ was posted up with great position and AA made move after move and then let fly a contested shot.... Its a learning curve, and probably was tenative to not take another bad shot.

I agree, if other teams go small... we can play AA at the 3, or at the 2 and let rip move over to the 3 depending on the matchup. The options in the playoffs are numerous. No body should be out there if there not playing up to par.

stuckey continues to look great and he's starting to finish his drives with more consistency. is this the type of confidence you want in your rookies come postseason?

"Me coming off picks," he said, "and Max and Amir rolling to the basket is deadly."
“I’m just attacking, and I feel that nobody can stop my drive,” Stuckey said. “I love contact, so I’m going at the big guys, no matter who it is. It’s all about being aggressive.”

yeah, i think it is.

stuckey continues to look great and he's starting to finish his drives with more consistency. is this the type of confidence you want in your rookies come postseason?

"Me coming off picks," he said, "and Max and Amir rolling to the basket is deadly."
“I’m just attacking, and I feel that nobody can stop my drive,” Stuckey said. “I love contact, so I’m going at the big guys, no matter who it is. It’s all about being aggressive.”

yeah, i think it is.

Add some Dywane Wyade type calls to the mix and we have a superstar!

Add some Dywane Wyade type calls to the mix and we have a superstar!

He'd need a bit more playing time before he'd be getting the calls. It will take some time, but it may just happen.

He'd need a bit more playing time before he'd be getting the calls. It will take some time, but it may just happen.

Let's say, Stuck will get some phantom calls a la Wade. Are you going to damn them as in case of Wade? If not then double standards apply, yes ? (Shame on you!)

Wow, this was a great game for the bench! Flip plays the quarters almost hockey-style, and the second line pulls out the victory in the 4th against what is likely Toronto's playoff rotation.

Stuckey just looks great. It likes like he has the confidence to force the issue inside on offense with results. I scanned the box score and was shocked to see that only 3 Pistons attempted free throws yesterday: Stuckey (8), Billups (5) and Ratliff (2). A bench player whose contribution includes a focused attack inside the paint is exactly what we need come playoff time.

Add some Dywane Wyade type calls to the mix and we have a superstar!

What worries me come playoff time is; both he and AA will get absolutely no respect at all from the refs, either on defense or offense.

Remember, they are rookies. Especially going against a team like Boston.

He'd need a bit more playing time before he'd be getting the calls. It will take some time, but it may just happen.

sadly if you don't get the wade/lebron calls within the first week of your rookie season (aka mandate from the league office) you will never get that level of call... lebron and wade both got calls that any piston vet would have loved to have gotten there first run in the playoff..... unfair but thats the way it is.

sadly if you don't get the wade/lebron calls within the first week of your rookie season (aka mandate from the league office) you will never get that level of call... lebron and wade both got calls that any piston vet would have loved to have gotten there first run in the playoff..... unfair but thats the way it is.


Agree there. Some of our vets may never even get the Wade/Lebron/kobe calls. A non-lottery pick like Stuckey may not even get the extra calls that a Kevin Durrant would get (if he even gets them) because he wasn't there playing from day one as an integral part of the every game lineup

I wonder if that # 2 pick we had who should remain nameless would have gotten any calls like his fellow top four draftmates if he had played everyday:sssh:....nah

I really don't want to get phantom calls, but I feel like Stuckey is one of those players who is able to get contact almost every time he drives. He's a guy who could get a lot of calls and they call all be deserved.

Mainly though, I just want our defenders to get the benefit of the doubt on strips and blocks. There is nothing worse than seeing Sheed cleanly block a shot, only to get his 2nd foul and have to head to the bench in a playoff game.

agreed i don't want to be given calls... but i want every player to be treated equal... sorry i don't care if your the 12th man on miami or lebron... if its a charge its a charge, or if its a block its a block. the refs shouldn't make a difference...

This concept the league wants there star players on the court i think is an excuse... There the best players for a reason, they will learn to play with the new policy probably better then the mid talent players... sure the growing pains would be there but if they started it in the pre season next year by christmas folks would have it figured out and by the time the playoffs came around it would be a non issue.

a few years ago the tv caught the refs during a time out talking about how many fouls shaq had... my question is why? And if it was caught once you now its happened many times where nobody did catch it.

What worries me come playoff time is; both he and AA will get absolutely no respect at all from the refs, either on defense or offense.

Remember, they are rookies. Especially going against a team like Boston.

Although let's remember that Daniel Gibson got 10 billion calls last year in the ECF against the Pistons, and he was just a rookie. Not that I expect any of our rookies to be getting friendly whistles in the playoffs, but it does sometimes happen. I still have absolutely no idea how Gibson got all those calls in the ECF last year.

I still have absolutely no idea how Gibson got all those calls in the ECF last year.
The Pippen effect. Except he's starting to turn out to be BJ Armstrong.

Although let's remember that Daniel Gibson got 10 billion calls last year in the ECF against the Pistons, and he was just a rookie. Not that I expect any of our rookies to be getting friendly whistles in the playoffs, but it does sometimes happen. I still have absolutely no idea how Gibson got all those calls in the ECF last year.

To be more frank than Roscoe - Gibson plays alongside Lebron, as Pippen played alonside Jordan.

We have no Jordans or LeBrons, so...............

probably got chewed out for the 15 moves he put on and then forced the shot from the corner... Hubey commented on it... AJ was posted up with great position and AA made move after move and then let fly a contested shot.... Its a learning curve, and probably was tenative to not take another bad shot.

I agree, if other teams go small... we can play AA at the 3, or at the 2 and let rip move over to the 3 depending on the matchup. The options in the playoffs are numerous. No body should be out there if there not playing up to par.

Just because the annoucer said he should not take the shot does not mean he was not suppose to take it. Afflalo needs in game practice shooting the ball, and most likely was told to quit deferring so much. The shot was clean enough, he just missed it. Afflalo needs practice shaking people too. Its all part of learning the NBA game. Hubie Brown knows basketball, but he does not know what is going on with the dynamics of this team as far as who needs to learn what. Afflalo not only should have taken the shot, he should be put in the same situation more and asked to create his shot, repeatedly.

Afflalo not only should have taken the shot, he should be put in the same situation more and asked to create his shot, repeatedly.
This is sorta the same tough love approach my dad used to help me improve my grades.

It was a big help along with the beatings, sensory deprivation and starvation.


:) ;) :P

Just because the annoucer said he should not take the shot does not mean he was not suppose to take it. Afflalo needs in game practice shooting the ball, and most likely was told to quit deferring so much. The shot was clean enough, he just missed it. Afflalo needs practice shaking people too. Its all part of learning the NBA game. Hubie Brown knows basketball, but he does not know what is going on with the dynamics of this team as far as who needs to learn what. Afflalo not only should have taken the shot, he should be put in the same situation more and asked to create his shot, repeatedly.

I watched the play and was thinking to myself long before the tv repeated what i was thinking.... what the heck are you doing?? pass the ball... he was doing his best lebron out there.. dribble to the right dribble to the right if it was a starter I'd said the same thing... when your almost at the 3 point line and covered you don't do that... pass the ball to the post... he was wide open. And the camera went right to flip you could tell he wasn't happy... being active and not deffering is one thing holding the ball for that long isn't. Heck It was vintage Hunter right there.

And that was the only comment that Hubie said that i referred to... i laughed all day long at things he said that were SOOOOO far off.

PS... next time Hunter does the same thing.... remember he's rusty and just working on his game..... I know you would never complain about his offensive game....

We have no Jordans or LeBrons, so...............

We have 4 all-stars though (if you count Sheed and Dyess). And the best backcourt duo in the league. Plus we have a bench with a nickname. How many teams can say that?

We have 4 all-stars though (if you count Sheed and Dyess). And the best backcourt duo in the league. Plus we have a bench with a nickname. How many teams can say that?
Actually, wasn't Theo an all-star in his past life?

Actually, wasn't Theo an all-star in his past life?

Do not forget hunter too...

Do not forget hunter too...
Theo actually was selected as a starting center for the 2001 All-Star game, but couldn't play due to injury. I don't believe Hunter was ever selected, but I may be wrong on this.

Do not forget hunter too...

He was never an all-star, was he? It's been a decade since he shot over 40% in a season.

We have 4 all-stars though (if you count Sheed and Dyess). And the best backcourt duo in the league. Plus we have a bench with a nickname. How many teams can say that?

True, however, they don`t get the respect they should from the refs!

Maybe that will change this post season.

I watched the play and was thinking to myself long before the tv repeated what i was thinking.... what the heck are you doing?? pass the ball... he was doing his best lebron out there.. dribble to the right dribble to the right if it was a starter I'd said the same thing... when your almost at the 3 point line and covered you don't do that... pass the ball to the post... he was wide open. And the camera went right to flip you could tell he wasn't happy... being active and not deffering is one thing holding the ball for that long isn't. Heck It was vintage Hunter right there.

And that was the only comment that Hubie said that i referred to... i laughed all day long at things he said that were SOOOOO far off.

PS... next time Hunter does the same thing.... remember he's rusty and just working on his game..... I know you would never complain about his offensive game....

That just makes three people wrong, you, and the announcer, and Flip. Afflalo has to, for the good of the team, look for more shots. Flip should chill.

PS, looking for validation from Flip gets you no credit in an argument with me. Now, if you use that Flip likes something as an argument against that thing, thats another story.

Afflalo just has to make good decisions when he is in the game. This is usually one of his strengths. When he took the ill-advised shot with Amir wide open under the basket calling for the ball, Afflalo simply made a poor decision. Hubie was right on the money.

That just makes three people wrong, you, and the announcer, and Flip. Afflalo has to, for the good of the team, look for more shots. Flip should chill.

PS, looking for validation from Flip gets you no credit in an argument with me. Now, if you use that Flip likes something as an argument against that thing, thats another story.

:pound:You were making a funny, right?

That just makes three people wrong, you, and the announcer, and Flip. Afflalo has to, for the good of the team, look for more shots. Flip should chill.

PS, looking for validation from Flip gets you no credit in an argument with me. Now, if you use that Flip likes something as an argument against that thing, thats another story.

LOL why do i bother trying to discuss anything with you.......

atleast your always good for a laugh....

keep the humor coming

Afflalo may need more shots, but it doesn't mean that he shouldn't make the best play available. He should take the shots when he's open and nobody is in the better position to score.

LOL why do i bother trying to discuss anything with you.......
Because despite the fact that lee can be rude, mean, belligerent, stubborn and caustic, he's our friend, and we love him very much. :MusicBigGrin:

Because despite the fact that lee can be rude, mean, belligerent, stubborn and caustic, he's our friend, and we love him very much. :MusicBigGrin:
Quasimodo?:)

Because despite the fact that lee can be rude, mean, belligerent, stubborn and caustic, he's our friend, and we love him very much. :MusicBigGrin:

lol.... nothing else to add.... but that made me bust up

Because despite the fact that lee can be rude, mean, belligerent, stubborn and caustic, he's our friend, and we love him very much. :MusicBigGrin:

Wait a minute, I thought this was only a somewhat joking thread.

Seriously, though, I love Lee for his original opinions. He is not afraid to pipe up and go against the grain. I respect him for that.

Wait a minute, I thought this was only a somewhat joking thread.

Seriously, though, I love Lee for his original opinions. He is not afraid to pipe up and go against the grain. I respect him for that.

I'll 2nd this. I also love the fact Lee and i agree on alot of things. Definately makes him one of the smartest posters in my book. :)

Just a reminder. 11 other posters agreed with Lee in that poll on AA and Amir being crucial to our successfull playoff run.

Just a reminder. 11 other posters agreed with Lee in that poll on AA and Amir being crucial to our successfull playoff run.

Who were they??:MusicBigGrin:

Just a reminder. 11 other posters agreed with Lee in that poll on AA and Amir being crucial to our successfull playoff run.


Yes, I think he has found a vocal minority on some issues that agrees with him. Persistence will do that. Plus, it's easier to find people to agree with you when a good percentage of your comments are complaints.:pound:

Just a reminder. 11 other posters agreed with Lee in that poll on AA and Amir being crucial to our successfull playoff run.

Lee has alot of insight on alot of things, problem is that he is black/white to a fault and rarely see's the greys. He also seems to never change his mind as a situation unfolds, but he adds a great amount to my thought process of thinking about the Pistons. I might not always agree totally but I do take bits and pieces and always like to see different views so I can have a more indepth thought process.

Saying that, I question if the 11 other posters are as hardline as he is as to how far we will have to depend on AA to have a successful playoff run.

Do I think that there going to be strong parts of our playoff run, yep.... do I think they are going to be make or break for us though.... NO, but they could suprise me too..

Who were they??:MusicBigGrin:

That was your poll, it was private.

14 yes, 8 no, 16 undecided.

It was from last month, pretty sure I voted no.

That was your poll, it was private.

14 yes, 8 no, 16 undecided.

It was from last month, pretty sure I voted no.

I know. Just wanted to find out how or if you knew who the 11 folk were!!!!!!!!:nerd2:

I know. Just wanted to find out how or if you knew who the 11 folk were!!!!!!!!:nerd2:
Not me.

Not me.

:pound:You were making a funny, right?

Not at all. I do not like Flip as a coach. Not in the slightest.

Yes, I think he has found a vocal minority on some issues that agrees with him. Persistence will do that. Plus, it's easier to find people to agree with you when a good percentage of your comments are complaints.:pound:
Far as I can tell, I am in the majority on most subjects related to the Pistons. Now, maybe some people just can't handle being in the minority, and want to believe that only a very few people disagree with them? I see that a lot. If that is what you tick, well, its not the worst problem to have I guess. Me, I will continue to believe what I see, as I study the film on the games.

Now, someone commented that I see things in black and white, nothing in between. Far from the truth. Anyone who knows me knows two things about me: I read all the press. I read everyone else's comments. Now, why would I do that if my mind was all made up. Why would I read everyone else's opinions? Simple enough. As my hobby is studying game film, I always welcome people's input on what to watch for.

Here is another question. If my mind is so made up, why do I spend hours studying film to check out all my and other's observations? Hey, I might get something wrong the first time I see something, but I get it right in the end, by studying the film of the game.

Am I opinionated? Not really, believe it or not. If you ever sit down and talk with me about something, you will find I can talk both sides of a subject, and and find two or three other ways to look at something besides. In contrast, compared to myself, I find most people I talk too much more opinionated, often very unwilling to even think along my lines of thought. On this forum, I find a lot of people very opinionated indeed.

Now, if you mean, do I have opinions, yes I do. From studying film. From observing the NBA for these past 35 years or so. From following several teams each year for the past five years or so. Yes, I have opinions. But it does not make me opiniated if my opinions happen not to match yours.

Here is an example. Someone trys to tell me Curry was a good defender his last years with us. I say no, he was not. And I won't back down from that opinion. Does that make me opiniated? Nope. I studied film extensively on Curry, and all the plays the other team used to take advantage of how slow Curry had become in his later years in the league. I know Curry was a very poor defender those last seasons for us. Not believing Curry was a good defender at that point is an informed opinion. Simple as that.

Another example. Afflalo got a lot of praise in this last game on how well he guarded Ford. But me, I have been studying film all year, watching in frame by frame how well Afflalo reacts to the opponents move. Watching his footwork, every move he makes. Nobody is going to tell me Afflalo is not an exceptional defender. I know he is. Opinionated, or having an informed opinion - I say the latter.

Lee, we love you, man. We really appreciate your contributions. I personally love to read your caps, especially since I don't have time to sit by the TV and analyze the games and the plays. And, in most cases, I agree with your conclusions. Keep it going.

Lee, we love you, man. We really appreciate your contributions. I personally love to read your caps, especially since I don't have time to sit by the TV and analyze the games and the plays. And, in most cases, I agree with your conclusions. Keep it going.

Thanks. I enjoy reading your opinions too. Enjoy the game tonight. Time for me to get some running in. Catch you all after the game.

I know. Just wanted to find out how or if you knew who the 11 folk were!!!!!!!!:nerd2:

I have the exact same security rights that you do. Only a modd in the game threads. Not sure if the regular modds could see them but I would imagine that they would not make it public since everyone voted under the context of anonymity.


Lee, I don't always agree with you but I do enjoy reading your posts.

I have the exact same security rights that you do. Only a modd in the game threads. Not sure if the regular modds could see them but I would imagine that they would not make it public since everyone voted under the context of anonymity.


Lee, I don't always agree with you but I do enjoy reading your posts.

Just joking.

Lee, I never agree with you, and I never read your posts!

Again, just kidding..........................well not about the agreeing part!

Lee, it is your opinion that you are not opinionated... just really really well informed, and therefore right?

I like that explanation a lot. I'm going to try using that with my wife.

Lee, it is your opinion that you are not opinionated... just really really well informed, and therefore right?

I like that explanation a lot. I'm going to try using that with my wife.
:pound::pound::pound: