Pistons/Sixers 1st Round Game 3, Fri April 25th, 7:00 PM

TV 20 Detroit HD, TNT

The scene switches to the city of brotherly love for game 3. Which Piston team will show up?

Brotherly love!

This is the break the back game. Whoever wins this game takes control of the series.

Imagine going back home down 3-1...

Scary stuff.

And this isn't a pretend down 3-1 like if we were facing TMAC or something.

In the game 2 thread, Dre posted some stats showing that the one difference for the Pistons in this game was making a much higher percentage of shots. Philly's stats show that their production in both games was almost identical:

Game 1
90 points (qrtr-by-qrtr breakdown: 22/16/25/27)
43% FGs (35-81)
19-27 FTs
18 offensive rebounds
16 assists
12 turnovers

Game 2
88 points (18/18/26/26)
39.5% FGs (32-81)
23-35 FTs
19 offensive rebounds
12 assists
10 turnovers

The 4th quarter in Game 2 was basically all garbage time, but the numbers still came out almost identical.

Blowing teams out on the road is always hard, certainly when it's a playoff game against a team that improved over the course of the season like Philly did, so I'm not expecting a repeat of Game 2. But it's pretty clear that the Pistons will be OK against this team as long as they just execute consistently.

I would also add that chalking up last night's win to better defensive intensity, if anyone's saying that, just doesn't seem right at all. We all know how important defense is, but it was already good in Game 1. The difference really came down to far better execution on offense.

I except to see more rodney carney in Game 3, and Lou Williams playing alot better in front of the home crowd.

We're going to need the bench. 3-1 coming home not 2-2 or god forbid 3-1 in favor of Philly.



YOUNG GUNS: Saunders used forward Amir Johnson and guard Arron Afflalo on Wednesday instead of veterans Theo Ratliff and Lindsey Hunter. But he said that wasn't the plan heading into the game, it was simply the result of the out-of-hand score that developed in the third quarter.


Still hasn't learned.

LB resigns.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/04/24/brown.sixers.ap/index.html

Nice stint.

I would expect this to be a little different. Last game the Sixers scorers were not getting enough shot attempts due to Reggie Evans still "feeling it". A 5 PPG scorer who usually rebounds and kicks it out trying to be the man could not have helped their cause.

On our end they now have to worry about McDyess along with Sheed. With all the other guys playing well they can't afford to double on anyone.

Pistons by 8

I except to see more rodney carney in Game 3, and Lou Williams playing alot better in front of the home crowd.

We're going to need the bench. 3-1 coming home not 2-2 or god forbid 3-1 in favor of Philly.
Still hasn't learned.

I agree they all will be playing better.

Who do you like more Stucky or Afflalo?

Pistons win this one easy.

I agree they all will be playing better.

Who do you like more Stucky or Afflalo?

I like them both. I think they compliment eachother really well. AA with the defense and extra ball handling. Stuckey with the quickness/scoring ability. They are both great at pushing the break.

I think they balance eachother out well, and AA just improves the defense so much.

If Flip is having a problem playing them together then he really needs to go back back to the Rip/Stuck, and then Chauncey/AA rotation. Worked beautifully, and put both players with the vet they play best with.

edited to add;

ORL lost tonight, with a win tomm we keep pace.

I like them both. I think they compliment eachother really well. AA with the defense and extra ball handling. Stuckey with the quickness/scoring ability. They are both great at pushing the break.

I think they balance eachother out well, and AA just improves the defense so much.


They seemed to work well for most of the season.

I pick Stucky myself. I believe he will be a very special player. AA will be solid and may even start if he improves his shot but Stucky has shown signs of greatness.

As in the last game. Two Sixer guards move in to pressure him in the backcourt, try and bully the rookie. Stucky responds by blowing past them both and running the length of the court for a wide open layup.

As in the last game. Two Sixer guards move in to pressure him in the backcourt, try and bully the rookie. Stucky responds by blowing past them both and running the length of the court for a wide open layup.

That play was great! For most of the rest of the Pistons I think the goal would have been to simply advance the ball across midcourt, but Stuckey was heading to the rack.

IMO against this Sixers squad we should be using CB/Rip/Stuckey and maybe a little AA in the backcourt, but then have AA spell Tay at SF for 8 to 10 mins. Let AA take on the task of defending AI2.

That play was great! For most of the rest of the Pistons I think the goal would have been to simply advance the ball across midcourt, but Stuckey was heading to the rack.

IMO against this Sixers squad we should be using CB/Rip/Stuckey and maybe a little AA in the backcourt, but then have AA spell Tay at SF for 8 to 10 mins. Let AA take on the task of defending AI2.

I completely agree. As we advance into the later rounds; AA may be a little over matched so we should be using him as much as possible in the early rounds to help keep Tay fresh.

That play was great! For most of the rest of the Pistons I think the goal would have been to simply advance the ball across midcourt, but Stuckey was heading to the rack.

IMO against this Sixers squad we should be using CB/Rip/Stuckey and maybe a little AA in the backcourt, but then have AA spell Tay at SF for 8 to 10 mins. Let AA take on the task of defending AI2.

He did a great job staying in front of him, granted it was maybe two possessions, but i think that would work. AI2 doesn't really post up so it's not like he'll overpower him, and if Afflalo can stay with LBJ, he can stay with Iggy.

Did we have Afflalo guard LeBron at some point this year? I must have forgotten about that game.

Did we have Afflalo guard LeBron at some point this year? I must have forgotten about that game.

Yes and he did quite well. He is quick enough to keep him in front (for the most part) and big enough not to get plowed over.

I'm beat, it's going to be a real challenge to stay awake for this one.

Hopefully we blow them out early!

I'm beat, it's going to be a real challenge to stay awake for this one.
Hopefully that's not what the starters are thinking! :pound:

Hopefully that's not what the starters are thinking! :pound:

Have yourself a 5 Alive. The energy boost without the crash.

ESPN - Scouts Inc. Update: Sixers vs. Pistons, Game 3 - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?page=ScoutingSixersPistons-Game3)

This analysis is pretty decent.

... a pretend down 3-1 like if we were facing TMAC or something.

ROFL...Perfectly Classic:pound:

ESPN - Scouts Inc. Update: Sixers vs. Pistons, Game 3 - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?page=ScoutingSixersPistons-Game3)

This analysis is pretty decent.

"Don't believe for a minute that the Pistons have "learned their lesson" from Game 1. Learning lessons means not repeating destructive behavior, and the Pistons have been "learning" this lesson for the past four years."

"The Pistons are treading in dangerous waters if they allow themselves any letdowns in this game. However, knowledge of that has never stopped them before."

Nice to see that for once the writers have actually watched some Pistons' games.

"Don't believe for a minute that the Pistons have "learned their lesson" from Game 1. Learning lessons means not repeating destructive behavior, and the Pistons have been "learning" this lesson for the past four years."

"The Pistons are treading in dangerous waters if they allow themselves any letdowns in this game. However, knowledge of that has never stopped them before."



I agree.

There was a statement made by CB before game two that was a tad troubling to me. He said, "even if we go down 0-2, I believe we could still win the series"!!

I have a problem with that statement. Is it me, or is that just plain dumb to say?

maybe game 4 but not this one.. maybe Pistons guys will be over confident again and this will be reason for a close game or a loss. I hope i am wrong

Pistons win this one easy.

Being a pivotal games in the series, the key IMO is to match the energy of the Sixers early on in the game. I expect them to come out of the gate like a bat out of hell and Flip must ensure that the rotations and energy level is maintained at a high level to withstand the initial onslaught. If the Stones can keep the game close 1st half i.e. within a couple of buckets, they will take the game.

Chat is open!

* removed link*

Sixers win this one easy.
:p_welldone:

I checked the score, and saw that Dice broke his nose, and Amir, and Aaron are still on the bench.

Good job Flip! Play the starters to death, and the old guys. Keep your # 1 and # 2 defensive players glued to the bench.

I'm not even going to get in on a rant of what Flip (and the players) did wrong this game, and what Mo Cheeks did right. Game 2 was fool's gold due to the high FG % and luck we had with winning w/ no bench production.

I'm debating going over to the dark side, becoming a first round exit FF. At least that guarentees Flip getting fired.

Get LB back. Lord knows Chauncey needs him.

Reggie Evans for MVP!

anyone catch sheed taking a nap during half time?

too good to trade, to unreliable to count on.

its only a matter of time before some team unceremonially punches us in the face and wins four streight on us.

i remember a quote by zeke from way back when he was talking about how you have to eat/slip/ live for a championship to win one in the nba. 2008 might not be as competetive as 1988, but i think the quote still has merit, and is as good of an explanation as any as to why these pistons will not be winning a championship this year.

I'm pissed at Flip for allowing Dice to break his nose.

anyone catch sheed taking a nap during half time?

too good to trade, to unreliable to count on.

its only a matter of time before some team unceremonially punches us in the face and wins four streight on us.

i remember a quote by zeke from way back when he was talking about how you have to eat/slip/ live for a championship to win one in the nba. 2008 might not be as competetive as 1988, but i think the quote still has merit, and is as good of an explanation as any as to why these pistons will not be winning a championship this year.

That already happend last year.

Are you kidding me??! Way to a lay an egg, guys! Thumbs up!

Losses usually don't get to me, but this one did.

I need to let the anger fade, watch BattleStar Galactica and collect my thoughts.

true or false: this was sheed's worst game ever as a piston?

In game one we bring in Theo and Hunter as our first subs along with Arvis as our bench; we get blown out.

In game two we use Stuck, Max and leave Hunter and Theo on the bench; we blow them out.

In game 3 we go back and do what we did in the game we lost; not the one we won. Can someone please explain this to me??????

Arvis is terrible for us right now. He should not see the floor. AA needs his minutes. Leave Hunter and Theo on the bench. Theo until we need him against a "real" big. Hunter til he retires.

Why repeat what you did to lose instead of what you did to win?????

This is why Flip must go!!!!!! Plain and simple.

This was first entire game I've been able to watch in weeks.

Help me out, forumites. Who were those guys in blue out there?

Is there a place where we can just type in all caps and stuff because holy crap I would really like to do that

I hope I am wrong, but I do not think teams come back from losses like this. Every game it is different pistons that does not show up (most of the time 2 or 3 starters)...this is a team breakdown and a team that does not respond to the coach. Yes they won 59 games, but there is no way in hell that you lose to philly by 20 in a playoff game. I keep saying it, there is something wrong. Billups has not been the same since he had to go back to detroit for an emergency. He does not look like the same player. What has happened to billups. Sheed had a bad game, impossible to believe that dalembert and evans could get the best of our bigs. Sheed should be totally embarrassed. Lets see what happens Sunday. Unbelievable. GO Pistons

In game 3 we go back and do what we did in the game we lost; not the one we won. Can someone please explain this to me??????

[Flip Saunders] Do not what you can to win, but do what you cannot do to lose, therefore you opponent knows not what you do, but what you didn't do. Because knowing what you didn't do, is much less valuable to your opponent than knowing what you did do, because what you did do is not what you plan to do, otherwise your opponent would do what it doesn't know you think it will do. In essence, leaving them as the known unknown that was actually known unbeknownst to them.

This flame out is coming so much sooner than I could have ever imagined. This is truly amazing.

I think we lose this series. You could just see it in our vets' faces. They looked broken. Rasheed had no fire in this game, even when it was close. I'm sick of these guys. I envy young teams like Philly that play with energy, intensity, and a sense of urgency. As for our bench, Rodney is a horrible fit for our offensive system. Hayes only passes after failing to create space for a fadeaway jumper. The only play I saw ran in the third quarter was a double baseline screen-read for Rip. By the time the ball came out of our PG's hands, six seconds were left on the shot-clock. We didn't look cohesive at all. Our offense just isn't designed for playoff success. This is why Flip Saunders needs to go.Amir is probably never going to become a starter in this league. The guy has been in the league for three years, and he has shown minimal development. The core, we can only hope, is finished. I want youth and losing seasons, please. No more B.S. about Chauncey being a star PG, Rasheed's talent-- all of that amounting to a 'ship? Please. No starter on this time has the desire, heart, or will to beat Boston.

This flame out is coming so much sooner than I could have ever imagined. This is truly amazing.

Do you still believe in starting 5?

Fire flip with players, thats what I'm saying. Firing flip alone is fool's gold.

This was first entire game I've been able to watch in weeks.

Help me out, forumites. Who were those guys in blue out there?
Sorry brother. Things aren't going well.

The Stones laid a collective steaming pile w/ Flip leading the charge. They think they are a great jump shooting team when they have streaky shooters. CB is a blow hard and is most responsible for this debacle. The team goes where the PG takes them. Comparing these guys in any form or shape to the Bad Boys is a joke.

Do you still believe in starting 5?

With a coach that doesn't allow them to slack, absolutely. This coach has no backbone or strategy.

im not sure flip makes it to the end of the playoffs. i swear i saw sheed taking a nap during half time, guys are arguing with him about rotations, during one time out chauncy was setting up the play and flip was outside the huddle like he was the 12th man on the team. this is not good

what else isnt good is iggy has been held in check all series. he's the kind of guy who could steal a game single handedly. if iggy does, that, gets philly a win where they should lose, pistons lose this series.

Flip needed to get to #12 to keep his job, but it looks like he's gonna have a hard time reaching 3, or even 2

I guess I can forget my hope for "forcing the issue"

I missed this game all I have to ask is................................................ WTF happened????

With a coach that doesn't allow them to slack, absolutely. This coach has no backbone or strategy.

describe me, please how would you inspire full-of-themselves-millionares?
Do you really believe that benching would help? (even then they think they are better)


Btw, my attitude towards our starting 5 was described one of first post I made here. Forumites took it so offensively that admins had to delete this post

AA/Amir were the only players with + and in 5 min.

:pound:

The players have tuned Flip out. Flip can't get over the fact that he's an idiot.

Hopefully, the players are tanking.

Afterall, you can't make adjustments in the post-season. You knew this game was over from tip-off. Tell me what well-coached team comes out looking like a/ they just woke up from a nap, b/ have no f'in clue what plays they are trying to run, and c/ continue to look comatose for long stretches, and still be IN the game.

I'm so glad we tried a new rotation for the PO's.

Aside from Maxey and the rooks...
I'm ready to fire/trade everyone but Kander, Abdenour, and Mason.

describe me, please how would you inspire full-of-themselves-millionares?
Do you really believe that benching would help? (even then they think they are better)

I'm not an NBA coach, so I couldn't tell you how I would do that.

However, I know a $#@& coach when I see one and I'd rather find out how the new one inspires them than to do nothing and watch this crock of @$#@ continue.

im not sure flip makes it to the end of the playoffs. i swear i saw sheed taking a nap during half time, guys are arguing with him about rotations, during one time out chauncy was setting up the play and flip was outside the huddle like he was the 12th man on the team. this is not good

what else isnt good is iggy has been held in check all series. he's the kind of guy who could steal a game single handedly. if iggy does, that, gets philly a win where they should lose, pistons lose this series.

i wish i saw this, i was at a friend's watching the 3rd quarter not very closely, and turned it off after that. Can someone describe in more detail? Who was arguing?

Hey you know LB just became avaliable :stirthepot:

Winning? Not really important to Flip. Shafting Dumars, very important to Flip. Retribution for making him play Afflalo and Amir during the season.
Nobody is this bad a coach, unless they have an agenda totally unrelated to the game at hand. Which Flip does. I say it again, all he cares about is shafting Dumars.

Now for some details on this game. We reached the 4th quarter with our starters overplayed, and behind. And as predicted before the game started, what does that mean to Flip? Play his tired starters the whole 4th. Of course, the last few minutes or so were garbage time, so our starters did not play then. But if it had been a close game, you know Flip would have just played them the whole quarter. Despite what some very uninformed fans think, 33 year old basketball players, like Sheed for instance, can't play a whole game without decent rest. This game was lost for poor substitution patterns. Patters so poor as to be unexplainable, except by the thing about Flip wanting to shaft Dumars with all his heart, mind, and soul.

When was this game lost? The moment Sheed came back into the game with 10 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter after a brief rest. That pretty much sealed the loss. The rest of the game was quite anticlimatic.

What were the Piston fans treated to tonight? Our future starts playing? Nope. Instead, we see an old Theo Ratliff play way too many minutes. Now, Theo did come in for a very brief stint toward the end of the 1st quarter / beginning of the 4th. He was quite effective there, in that brief stint. I was proud of Flip, for a fleeting moment, to see him use a player like that just about right. But then Theo played a whole lot after that. Old Theo. Old.

Didn't Dumars say after our last exit from the playoffs, lets raid an old folks home for the next playoff run. I know he said something relating to age.

Which brings us to Hunter. Great to flash into a game for a moment. That though is the extent of what he is good for. Hunter was just an excuse not to play Afflalo. Nothing more. Not to Flip. And look, this is really, really important to Flip. Not to us fans who like to see the Pistons win, but very important indeed to Flip's so strong desire to give Dumars the shaft.

To the fans who cheer Flip on as he gives Dumars the shaft, hey please change your ways. Dumars is a great guy, and does not deserve to be shafted so. Plus, there are a whole lot of us fans who really want to see the Pistons win it all this year, as they are very capable of doing.

Rip hit a bunch of shots. But this meant Sheed was doing no damage inside. And when Rip sat, Sheed was too tired to do anything. So basically, the old man was wasted as far as his offensive talent as he sat around and watched Rip shoot the ball.

Tay did some good scoring, inside and out.

Stuckey had a miserable game. Very miserable. He kept going inside and getting stripped. He did end up getting some points at the line, but we were way behind at that point. At least Stuckey did play a lot in this game.

Dyess suffered a broken nose. But we had not scored a bucket for quite a while, and Dyess had not scored at all as far as I remember, before the injury. No, Dyess getting injured did not lose this game for us. This game was lost, like I mentioned, early 2nd quarter, just by having Flip as a coach and not caring about anything but shafting Dumars.

We did cut Hayes out of the rotation. Stuckey played as Tay's backup instead. Hayes did get in for Rip when Rip sat with serious foul trouble. We did also find a function for Hayes. In garbage time, Hayes bricks one shot after another so the young guys who should be getting the shots can't show up Flip. Another very important thing to Flip.

Ok. Back to the fight. Dumars and Flip will be arguing something fierce between now and Sunday. Whose side are you on? Me, I am Dumars side. I want to see the Pistons win it all this season. What is your priority, those who still come around here and cheerlead Flip on?

I'm not an NBA coach, so I couldn't tell you how I would do that.

However, I know a $#@& coach when I see one and I'd rather find out how the new one inspires them than to do nothing and watch this crock of @$#@ continue.

You didnt answer to my question, you try to take cover:"I'm not NBA coach so..."

I went out to get some Mongolian BBQ. Pistons game was on the screen. I glanced up...no surprise, really.

Guys, this is a blessing in disguise. They weren't going far anyhow. Better they should lose now and that way Flip is gone for sure. Plus maybe a little shake up of vets.

Really, I'm sorry for you guys who care so much more than I do about this team. You all deserve better my friends. But I think it's best to go out in the first round than to wait for a Cleveland or Miami (inferior talents) to knock us out. I'm not exactly going to root against Detroit, but I really think it's best to go out in round one if we can't seriously compete in the later rounds.

Flip sucks and the team needs a true player/leader too. Not a hot head like Sheed or an arrogant jackass like CB.

Sorry. Time for some changes. This team has become everything the 2004 team despised and destroyed on their way to the top.

Didn't Dumars say after our last exit from the playoffs, lets raid an old folks home for the next playoff run. I know he said something relating to age.




I am calling it now. Thats the line of the night..

I just don't understand the change in rotation that won you game 2.

How many of us cringed when the refs allowed the Cavs to come back on the floor two weeks ago and beat the Sixers with those last 2 FT's?? What that did was push the Sixers into the 7th spot and it created a matchup that only few of us suspected would turn out like this (me, Low, Lpgrl to name a few).

The Pistons are better on paper, but the matchup was bad and that was apparent from the two losses the Sixers put on them in January and April. They came out aggressive and we came out lethargic with greasy palms. 12 TO's and 2-8 FT shooting was bad in the first half, but the defense was still able to hold the sixers to 44 points and we were facing just small 4 point halftime deficit.

The last time the Pistons were in this game was when they were down 48-46. After that the game was over, we just didn't know it yet. It was obvious based on their body language in the locker room at haltime that they were going to exhibit the same type of complacency that they did in the first half and once again they came out with little effort.

You are not going to win many games when Sheed and Billups are taking jumpers with reckless abandon and turning the ball over. Tay entered the second half shooting 6/7 from the floor and despite playing the whole third quarter took one shot, while the rest of the team was shooting bricks that at one point reached 14 straight misses.

Like Jon Barry said during his commentary, Flip should have sat the starters for a spell midway through that 3rd befor the lead got to 15 and tried his whole bench in there to wakle up the starters. How does ateam expect to win a game with 23 turnovers and 25 points in the paint?? They shot 61% in the first half and 22% in the second hitting 8 of 37 FG's???

They are going to have to win the next 3 to put this team away..any more victories by the sixers in the next two games and I think its over the Pistons, Flip and at least one or two of the starters

I am calling it now. Thats the line of the night..


That was nice

Flip should have subbed in the zoo crew when there was 3:30 minutes left in the third quarter. We weren't down by too many and needed a bosst to get us over the top.

As usual; Flip missed that oppurtunity to make a "coaching decision" that could have had an impact on the game.

Instead he did nothing.

Go to pistons.com and the first thing you'll see is "Home of the 1989, 1990, and 2004 NBA champions".


This whole organization is living in the past.

I didn't get to see the game...I just checked the box...fugly

Out boarded 43-34

18 assists
23 turnovers

Now that was not a picture perfect display of playoff basketball. The reason they make you play the games and don't hand you the championship is because upstart hungry teams are always going to be in the hunt to take down the favorites. Remember last year when Dallas got dumped by the Warriors? That's what this series reminds me of in a way, a young hungry team taking on the old warriors.

I don't see the Pistons playing with a mission and a drive to be the best they can be. Regardless of Flip Saunders and his weak assed playoff coaching strategy, this team is capable of winning the championship but also capable of a spectacular flame-out.

All that development of the bench just goes out the window once the playoffs start. I feel bad for Dice because he doesn't have a championship ring and he's worked so hard this year even taking on a starter's role to try and get that elusive ring. If it doesn't happen this year the window closes pretty fast because lots of talented teams are on the rise and the Pistons are an aging team.

Joe Dumars has a much hard job to keep putting together a quality team, he no longer has John Hammond to help him and what coaches out there are really any better than Saunders right now? I'm sick of seeing the same coaches on a revolving door being retreaded so pick your poison.

It's beyond me why Aaron Affalo is not getting quality minutes in the playoffs? This kid puts his heart and soul into every game and he's just the burst of energy the Pistons need.

correct me if im wrong, i might be, but i think flip only called 6 TO's all game. it looked to me like he was scared to. like he didnt want to deal with the uncomfortable situation of trying to lead a huddle when the players have turned him off. kind of in contrast to when ric carlisle used all his TO's for the half in the 3rd qtr against us stop the bleeding.

I will wait to here the postgame comments. If one of the player says everything is still okay this series is over. The Pistons are about to lose in the first round.

How many of us cringed when the refs allowed the Cavs to come back on the floor two weeks ago and beat the Sixers with those last 2 FT's?? What that did was push the Sixers into the 7th spot and it created a matchup that only few of us suspected would turn out like this (me, Low, Lpgrl to name a few).

The Pistons are better on paper, but the matchup was bad and that was apparent from the two losses the Sixers put on them in January and April. They came out aggressive and we came out lethargic with greasy palms. 12 TO's and 2-8 FT shooting was bad in the first half, but the defense was still able to hold the sixers to 44 points and we were facing just small 4 point halftime deficit.

The last time the Pistons were in this game was when they were down 48-46. After that the game was over, we just didn't know it yet. It was obvious based on their body language in the locker room at haltime that they were going to exhibit the same type of complacency that they did in the first half and once again they came out with little effort.

You are not going to win many games when Sheed and Billups are taking jumpers with reckless abandon and turning the ball over. Tay entered the second half shooting 6/7 from the floor and despite playing the whole third quarter took one shot, while the rest of the team was shooting bricks that at one point reached 14 straight misses.

Like Jon Barry said during his commentary, Flip should have sat the starters for a spell midway through that 3rd befor the lead got to 15 and tried his whole bench in there to wakle up the starters. How does ateam expect to win a game with 23 turnovers and 25 points in the paint?? They shot 61% in the first half and 22% in the second hitting 8 of 37 FG's???

They are going to have to win the next 3 to put this team away..any more victories by the sixers in the next two games and I think its over the Pistons, Flip and at least one or two of the starters

Jon Barry for coach!

Seriously though, perfect time to send a message, and potentially make a big impact on this series. Of course Flip misses it.

As for match-ups, yea i remember all those comments about the Sixers causing problems. I hate being right if this is the outcome.

Everybody should tell Lee they're sorry. See he's not so crazy after all. :)

I guess it is a blessing in disguise. Flip will go, but the bad part is most likely the core will be broken up. I don't really see who you trade though. Dumars has been adament about keeping Sheed (thank god). Tay i wouldn't trade. Rip i might be open to, and all Chauncey needs is a coach that will tell him what do to.

I'm just over it. I want to see the kids play. It's so frustrating to watch.

edited to add;

You have to blame Joe D for this as well. This is obviously not a workable situation with Flip/some players, and has been allowed to go on for far too long. Wonder if Bill Davidson has Joe's hands tied.

I'm having an editing addiction;

Why is that Flip even manages to screw up rotations with his normal players. Rip's on fire so he takes him out. Theo's abusing Jason Smith, so he takes him out and puts him back in later at a less preferable match-up ?

correct me if im wrong, i might be, but i think flip only called 6 TO's all game. it looked to me like he was scared to. like he didnt want to deal with the uncomfortable situation of trying to lead a huddle when the players have turned him off. kind of in contrast to when ric carlisle used all his TO's for the half in the 3rd qtr against us stop the bleeding.

judging from his pre-game and half-time speech, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

This play off run was done when Max (or Theo when he got here) was not given the starting role over Dice. We start every game with 5 jump shooters. We needed at least one post presence (of any sort) this year.

Aside from Maxey and the rooks...
I'm ready to fire/trade everyone but Kander, Abdenour, and Mason.
I like how short this is. And your new badass avatar. :)

Winning? Not really important to Flip. Shafting Dumars, very important to Flip.
Why credit incompetence with malicious intent? And why assume Dumars is blameless? This is his coach. He hired him. These are his players. Joe's been here so long that with the exception of 2 of the 3 guys mentioned above by Cirrus, everyone in the org is his own guy.

Sorry. Time for some changes. This team has become everything the 2004 team despised and destroyed on their way to the top.
This is the line of the night.

I am calling it now. Thats the line of the night..
Oh man, make lee work for it. :)

This whole organization is living in the past.
What do you expect in the 50th season? These guys totally disrespect the legacy of the franchise, and Joe should be embarrassed. He should be making personal apologies.

This play off run was done when Max (or Theo when he got here) was not given the starting role over Dice. We start every game with 5 jump shooters. We needed at least one post presence (of any sort) this year.

Dice is the reason we won Game 2. He played his butt off again and if the Pistons flame out again this will be sad.

He has a broken nose now, so you might get your wish.

Flip's effed up rotation = :gun1:Seriously Flip, why screw with what was working for you the whole season? This team's tuned him out (perhaps completely this time). If we lose - or even if we win this series, we have to insitute some big time changes. Personally, I wouldn't mind trading any of the core 5 or Maxiell if that will get us someone decent - or maybe a couple picks. Needless to say, that means Flipper gets sacked. And is Flip the only coach in the league who could turn a solid personnel move into a terrible one? :yellowprison:

Originally Posted by Darth Tater http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/pfv2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pistonsforum.com/2008-playoffs/8412-pistons-sixers-1st-round-game-3-fri-april-25th-7-00-pm-post142182.html#post142182)
This team has become everything the 2004 team despised and destroyed on their way to the top.


Perfect description, Tater.

Flip's effed up rotation = :gun1:Seriously Flip, why screw with what was working for you the whole season? This team's tuned him out (perhaps completely this time). If we lose - or even if we win this series, we have to insitute some big time changes. Personally, I wouldn't mind trading any of the core 5 or Maxiell if that will get us someone decent - or maybe a couple picks. Needless to say, that means Flipper gets sacked. And is Flip the only coach in the league who could turn a solid personnel move into a terrible one? :yellowprison:

What is this "Solid Personnel move" you speak of? :stirthepot:

The team will not be going anywhere of the PG is playing w/ his head up his arse. Someone has to reign in CB.

It was maybe a game where nothing helps. I do not think that bench, except for stuckey and max, can do something. Keep that in mind that stuck and AA are rookies, AJ is technically rookie and rest of them are tryouts. Sure, you can give them some time but I do not believe that combination rookies plus tryouts are actually ready for PO level. With amir or AA or whoever( it really doesn't matter) on the court sixers could have extended their lead. I know this opinion is not what you want to read, but I do not care.

I agree with scoe, Dumars has some responsibilities too, as players and coach.

Oh man, make lee work for it. :)


I don't find too many things funny but that was hilarious.

I am going to wait and see what happends on Sunday. But yes something does not seem right about this year. The team just looks old and tired out there.

I don't think think any lineup change possible could have helped us out there with the way they played. 4-19 from Billups, Sheed and Dyess.

Yes we are the type of team that we would have hated 4 years ago. At least the Lakers had 3 titles to be arrogant about. 5 ECF's, we should have at least 4 Finals trips and a min of 2 titles. 3 championships would have been a successfull run, 2 would have been average. Only getting 1 is kind of lame. I appreciated that we did at least get 1 but when you look at all the thrown away opportunities, its not enough.

If it ends this year, Wasted opportunities will be how this Pistons era will be remembered.

We need some sharks. Some guys that not only want to win but want to destroy the competition in the process. Thats what you need for a sustained title run. I am just not seeing that anymore. They let guys like Gibson and Reggie Evans burn them and they don't even care.

It was maybe a game where nothing helps. I do not think that bench, except for stuckey and max, can do something. Keep that in mind that stuck and AA are rookies, AJ is technically rookie and rest of them are tryouts. Sure, you can give them some time but I do not believe that combination rookies plus tryouts are actually ready for PO level. With amir or AA or whoever( it really doesn't matter) on the court sixers could have extended their lead. I know this opinion is not what you want to read, but I do not care.

I agree with scoe, Dumars has some responsibilities too, as players and coach.

I really don't understand this logic at all. AA and AJ are rookies so we shouldn't play them? We should just do nothing, or the same thing that causes us to lose?

You don't know if they won't make an impact, just like i don't know if they will. That's the point of playing players. And signs would point to them being productive if you just watched the season.

Thaddeus Young, and Lou Williams are rookies too. They seem to be doing fine.

Also, to expand on that, we are getting beat down the floor. I'm sure 20 year old legs are alot faster than 30 year olds.

You didnt answer to my question, you try to take cover:"I'm not NBA coach so..."
First thing I would do is call Larry Brown and ask him how much he want for HIS vaunted playbook.

Then, I'd actually use the plays in it.

Then, I'd start pulling guys for every pair of BS 3's they tossed at the rim.

Then, I'd BAN moving out of the way when players drive the lane.

Then, I'd BAN any comments about "knowing what to do" or "if it ain't rough" or "hitting shots"

Then I'd mandate that if a young guys goes out there and plays better than you mr. starter. guess what? YOU SIT until you start playing better than said young guy.

Then, I'd BAN zone defense from the state

Then, I'd fine players $500 for every time the lane was open and they faded for a jumper

Then, I'd encourage Sheed to get MORE techs.

Then, I'd NOT run the starters the entire 3rd qtr so they didn't have tired legs when I need clutch play in the fourth ( and don't give me any of this pro athlete crap. if you have muscles and consume oxygen, you get tired.)

Then, I'd try NOT being an idiot.

Then, I'd try NOT pulling the hot hand out of a game.

Then, Id try PULLING the cold hand out of the game.

Then, I'd ask for a raise.

That's just to start....

It was maybe a game where nothing helps. I do not think that bench, except for stuckey and max, can do something. Keep that in mind that stuck and AA are rookies, AJ is technically rookie and rest of them are tryouts. Sure, you can give them some time but I do not believe that combination rookies plus tryouts are actually ready for PO level. With amir or AA or whoever( it really doesn't matter) on the court sixers could have extended their lead. I know this opinion is not what you want to read, but I do not care.

I agree with scoe, Dumars has some responsibilities too, as players and coach.

Because our younger guys can't get put in there against Louis Williams (26 minutes), Rodney Carney (21 minutes) and Thaddeus Young(21 minutes)?

These are guys from their summer league team. And you contend that Afflalo and Amir can't get inserted into the game when these guys are on the floor?

I'll agree with you on a lot of points but not this one. Not for one second.

WWLD

If Larry could get over his prima donna'ish and stayed in Detroit, no way JMax would not be starting, no way Hayes would be on the roster with his lack of D, and no way Hermann would not have earned some pt.

Stuckey would probably be a perennial DNP, but Aflalo would get some burn, AND the starters would be playing consistent hard nosed hoops.

WWLD

If Larry could get over his prima donna'ish and stayed in Detroit, no way JMax would not be starting, no way Hayes would be on the roster with his lack of D, and no way Hermann would not have earned some pt.

Stuckey would probably be a perennial DNP, but Aflalo would get some burn, AND the starters would be playing consistent hard nosed hoops.

Sorry bro,

These guys don't have names like: Darko or Arroyo.

2004 > "GOING TO WORK!"

2008 > "(yawn) going to bed..."

Its impossible to guess what would have happened if LB had stayed. He took the Sixers to the Finals and they never got back again under his coaching so its not like anything is automatic.

I really don't understand this logic at all. AA and AJ are rookies so we shouldn't play them? We should just do nothing, or the same thing that causes us to lose?

You don't know if they won't make an impact, just like i don't know if they will. That's the point of playing players. And signs would point to them being productive if you just watched the season.

Thaddeus Young, and Lou Williams are rookies too. They seem to be doing fine.

Problem is you just cant throw players on the court for just "try if it works". Heck,in such cases players have no idea what they are doing, because of they are...just trying what they can do. In most cases such things wont work.And how AA or AJ play, well, they have nothing to do with how Young or somebody else plays.

Im my opinion this bench is not capable for POs leave or take it. As long as Davidson refuses to pay lux tax. Our staring 5 eats 80-85% of salary cap and under such conditions dumars cant hire impact players. All what dumars has are rookie contracts and vet minimums.

What is this "Solid Personnel move" you speak of? :stirthepot:

Ratliff acquisition.
Experience? Screw experience. For chrissake, Flip, your team's getting beat up by a team that is mostly made up of playoff virgins! (sorry, just had to get that in):)

Side note: Max is good, but games like these are why I don't see him being a legit starter in this league. He's so up and down, and he needs to expend so much energy trying to make up for his lack of height that he can't produce as much when he plays more than 20 odd minutes.

Flip's a moron, but LB's no saint. The play he drew up for Rip Hamilton in Game 5 of the '05 Finals, and his decision to play smallball during Game 7, had as much to do with the Pistons losing that championship as anything else.

But he wouldn't be losing to the Sixers. I think.

Problem is you just cant throw players on the court for just "try if it works". Heck,in such cases players have no idea what they are doing, because of they are...just trying what they can do. In most cases such things wont work.And how AA or AJ play, well, they have nothing to do with how Young or somebody else plays.

Im my opinion this bench is not capable for POs leave or take it. As long as Davidson refuses to pay lux tax. Our staring 5 eats 80-85% of salary cap and under such conditions dumars cant hire impact players. All what dumars has are rookie contracts and vet minimums.

That's what a majority of coaches do. In fact the two greatest Pop, and Jackson continually do this. If you have a system and the players understand the system, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's how you find a spark.

Carney played well last game, and guess who gets min this game, even though he played in the last few min of a blowout.

As for nothing to do with Young, your whole argument was based on them being "rookies". Young is too. Seems relevant.

Mo Cheeks is coaching circles around Flip.

With LB, at least you were guaranteed a play coming out of a timeout.

I agree, LB would not be losing this series.

Because our younger guys can't get put in there against Louis Williams (26 minutes), Rodney Carney (21 minutes) and Thaddeus Young(21 minutes)?

These are guys from their summer league team. And you contend that Afflalo and Amir can't get inserted into the game when these guys are on the floor?

I'll agree with you on a lot of points but not this one. Not for one second.

To add a little matchup history to that..Afflalo has locked up Rodney Carney before, iirc, in the NCAA Elite Eight/Sweet Sixteen a few years back, the year Carney left for the draft. He was also effective in guarding Lou Williams, both in the summer league and the regular season. Just sayin'.

It may have been better just to forfeit ths game then go out there and throw up an effort like they did tonight...The Pistons were anemic 27-66 shooting and Rip and Tay made 17 of those 27 shots. Sheed, Billups, Stuckey and Hayes were a combined 5/31 shooting. Add in the 23 turnovers it was not a Pistons game you want to look at to re-analyze.. I stopped my DVR midway thru the 3rd qtr...

No Joe sightings tonight. Hopefully he was in a private suite trying to convince LB to comeback. We should have known this was going to be a loss with David Stern in the stands throwing out a hex/spell on the Pistons and ....cheering. Although he doesn't mind a Piston-Celtic ECF, the C's have to be the winner in order to asure that they are in the finals vs lakers or Spurs.

We may never put another Flip face up there on that counter and the good thing would be that Flip is gone for good!!! In fact I would fire him now and hand the coaching rains over to Curry or Porter. Maybe that will shake this team into playing some inspired basketball seeing that Joe means business!!:yellowprison:

That's what a majority of coaches do. In fact the two greatest Pop, and Jackson continually do this. If you have a system and the players understand the system, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's how you find a spark.

Carney played well last game, and guess who gets min this game, even though he played in the last few min of a blowout.

As for nothing to do with Young, your whole argument was based on them being "rookies". Young is too. Seems relevant.


Mo Cheeks is coaching circles around Flip.

um.. are they doing it during POs...amidst of total mess?

Young is Young. Amir is Amir. When young plays well it doesn't mean that amir under similar conditions does it too.

I agree, coaches try players, BUT NOT DURING PO-s!!!!!!

If you think that our one dimensional bench( AJ can jump but is foul prone, AA can defend but cant score) can be savior during POs, then you hopes are too high. Stuckey was 1-7, maxiell didnt make a shot and was 2-6 from charity line. Hayes was 1-7. What do you hope from such boys? They just do not have enough skill yet to make bad things better.

I went out to get some Mongolian BBQ. Pistons game was on the screen. I glanced up...no surprise, really.

Guys, this is a blessing in disguise. They weren't going far anyhow. Better they should lose now and that way Flip is gone for sure. Plus maybe a little shake up of vets.

Really, I'm sorry for you guys who care so much more than I do about this team. You all deserve better my friends. But I think it's best to go out in the first round than to wait for a Cleveland or Miami (inferior talents) to knock us out. I'm not exactly going to root against Detroit, but I really think it's best to go out in round one if we can't seriously compete in the later rounds.

Flip sucks and the team needs a true player/leader too. Not a hot head like Sheed or an arrogant jackass like CB.

Sorry. Time for some changes. This team has become everything the 2004 team despised and destroyed on their way to the top.
I agree with you. I've become more and more apathetic to this team over the past few years. I barely even watch the games anymore because I know that they're meaningless. The results may change, but the mentality has stayed the same for far too long. I was neither shocked or upset by this loss.

I watched maybe 5 minutes total of this game, flicking back and forth between other stuff that was on. I just have no desire to watch this team collapse under their own arrogance and their coaches stupidity.

Here are some problems:

1) We may be just old. I thought the first game we weren't game sharp but this loss looks like age (obviiously way more of a concern). Who played well? Our two younger starters: Rip and Tay. Coincidence? It appears that Sheed cannot bring it every night.

1A) We just don't seem to have another gear (again the sign of age) as this happened last year.

2) Billips

3) Billips: He is being totally beated by a near journeyman in Miller. Billips simply hurts us every time he drives. His drives killed us and then he lost confidence in his jumper.

4) We have had a suspect offense for a few years now, age or no age (here I will blame the coach).


How do we get by Philly? Believe it or not, we need to start getting our jumper game going. They are waiting back for us and Billips is falling into the trap. Rip too. Only Tay seems to be able to finish. They jammed Sheed as well.

On defense, we may have to bring Afflalo in early and take Miller out of the game. The only way to win is bog Miller down as we have bogged down Andre. Then unleash the jumpers as they are giving them to us.

The trouble with our youth is that they are not accomplished scorers. So we have to use them with the starters. The coach is in a tough spot whether you like him or not.

um.. are they doing it during POs...amidst of total mess?

Young is Young. Amir is Amir. When young plays well it doesn't mean that amir under similar conditions does it too.

I agree, coaches try players, BUT NOT DURING PO-s!!!!!!

If you think that our one dimensional bench( AJ can jump but is foul prone, AA can defend but cant score) can be savior during POs, then you hopes are too high. Stuckey was 1-7, maxiell didnt make a shot and was 2-6 from charity line. Hayes was 1-7. What do you hope from such boys? They just do not have enough skill yet to make bad things better.

We were getting blown out, and yes coaches do it during the PO's.

It also doesn't mean that Amir will not play well under similar circumstances.

We don't need a savior, we just need help. I don't see how AA having the ability to lock down someone and as alexa pointed out, 2 players that are ACTUALLY in this series isn't a skill we could desperately use. AA also makes our whole defense better, and seems to energize Sheed as does Amir with his quickness/energy/rebounding.

The exact things that we are lacking in this series that we need to counter Philly with are sitting on the bench.

We are getting beat down the floor.

We are getting outrebounded.

We can't stop their guards.

Flip let this game get out of hand by leaving the starters in.

The Pho game is a perfect example of how we countered a running team with speed of our own.

Improving our defense is critical, and strangely on offense we tend to do better when we have one or two non scoring guys in the line-up.

The way the starters were playing you have to at least try the rookies. I mean we ballyhood the Zoo crew for the last two months and now in the PO's they will become the zero crew. If Cheeks can play his rookies and second year men, our coach has to believe that his are as good as theirs.

If he is affraid to play AA, then just dress Dixon and leave Hunter in a leisure suit. He has not done anything yet. The game was 20-20 at the end of one. As soon as Theo came in, the offense went out of sync because somebody put the ball in his hands. AJ would have been just in there to get boards and blocks and garbage ...like Ben did... We are playing old 34+ year old vets in Theo and Hunter vs a team that has no know over 30 playing.

Our vets shoot jumpers, their youth go to the hoop. We have to try our youth now when the vets flame out other wise they will be watching the sixers on TV in the next round with us.

since 2005, the starters being 'worn out' has been a common excuse every year. this year, that should not be the case. but the problem is, flip never orchestrated the team to peak going into the playoffs. he basically gave this team a layoff for the last 40 games of the year, with tons of rest for the last 15 games or so. the problem is, the pistons look like they havent played competetive bball in a while, which is somewhat true. its a double edged sword, and flip did not do a good job juggling it.

my compaint on this team was that you cant be back the same team every year, thats where complacency takes place. joe actually did a nice job of rebuilding a nice, young bench lately, but its clear that flip runs streight to the starters whenever the going gets tough.

i still think we win this series, unless iggy steals a game.

Scary thing about this game, Philly won with D. Detroit shot well the first half and was still down.

Why? Because Philly was playing much more aggressive-gambling D, the result: Philly got more turnovers, but Detroit got easier shots when they beat the D. But once Philly got the lead, we stopped playing our normal O, and the easy shots stopped coming, but the turnovers continued.

We were getting blown out, and yes coaches do it during the PO's.

It also doesn't mean that Amir will not play well under similar circumstances.

We don't need a savior, we just need help. I don't see how AA having the ability to lock down someone and as alexa pointed out, 2 players that are ACTUALLY in this series isn't a skill we could desperately use. AA also makes our whole defense better, and seems to energize Sheed as does Amir with his quickness/energy/rebounding.

The exact things that we are lacking in this series that we need to counter Philly with are sitting on the bench.

We are getting beat down the floor.

We are getting outrebounded.

We can't stop their guards.

Flip let this game get out of hand by leaving the starters in.

The Pho game is a perfect example of how we countered a running team with speed of our own.

Improving our defense is critical, and strangely on offense we tend to do better when we have one or two non scoring guys in the line-up.

One dimensional players cannot at the same time masterfully defend, outrebound, penetrate, etc. There were way too many holes; one or two players from bench are not capable of covering them. I'm still sticking with that: with bench on the floor sixers could have extend their lead. Do not treat bench like whatever situation it is, answer is there.If they are so good players why are they sitting on the bench? Thats it. Want better bench? Then davidson has to pay lux tax.

B-Diddly,

I thought that not having the starters game ready was why we lost game one. But it is harder to say that in game three. We are aging at key spots (guard and power forward and center) and I hope I am wrong. We just don't seem to have a playoff other gear.

Sheed is still dominant but couldn't muster up much tonight. Billips is being beated by a second tier guard. Our younger starters Tay and Rip were very good.

The Spurs are not as old as we are really. Parker runs the show at 25. Ginobli is on the cusp at 30. Duncan is 31 I believe. Sheed is now 33. Those couple of years are a lot in the NBA.

To others, our youth have not shown they can score consistently. The coach ( and I have never been a Flip fan) is really in a bind. I think he has to roll the dice and play for defense early (Afflalo on Miller). But this must be combined with opening up our offense. The drives are killing us with Billips leading the way. A coach sizes up what the opponent is doing and counters. They are waiting for us and we are obliging with Billips leading us all the way to the hoop and a block, wild toss or turnover. We need to adjust.

One dimensional players cannot at the same time masterfully defend, outrebound, penetrate, etc. There were way too many holes; one or two players from bench are not capable of covering them. I'm still sticking with that: with bench on the floor sixers could have extend their lead. Do not treat bench like whatever situation it is, answer is there.If they are so good players why are they sitting on the bench? Thats it. Want better bench? Then davidson has to pay lux tax.

B/c our coach is an idiot.

One dimensional players cannot at the same time masterfully defend, outrebound, penetrate, etc. There were way too many holes; one or two players from bench are not capable of covering them. I'm still sticking with that: with bench on the floor sixers could have extend their lead. Do not treat bench like whatever situation it is, answer is there.If they are so good players why are they sitting on the bench? Thats it. Want better bench? Then davidson has to pay lux tax.

Dude, come on. I usually agree with you, but you are going too far. Philly is playing rookies and young boys and beating us. We used to be playing our rookies and young boys off the bench, and they showed themselves generally capable of hanging with guys more experienced and more talented than the 76'ers. So it should easily follow that we should play our young players and get good production out of them. You are talking like we are playing a team of Michael Jordans, and so of course we are losing. We are playing a tough Phily team that we can beat, but are not. If the starters are having trouble, it does not logically follow that the backups can't contribute. So get off it already. Flip seems to be majorly choking here.

You say that the coach can't motivate primadonna multimillionaires. Well, every year, coaches ARE doing it, around the league. Every year, a team gets motivated enough to win the championship, and if they could do it without a coaching staff to help motivate them, then GMs wouldn't be spending money on the coaches. If the coaches can't motivate millionaire athletes, then they should be fired and replaced by the many coaches that can.




With that said, I had a great evening. While the Pistons were playing, I was eating awesome sushi at a cool place here in Provo. I'm so glad that they weren't showing the game at the bar during our dinner.

Problem is you just cant throw players on the court for just "try if it works". Heck,in such cases players have no idea what they are doing, because of they are...just trying what they can do. In most cases such things wont work.And how AA or AJ play, well, they have nothing to do with how Young or somebody else plays.

Of course you can. Phil Jackson did. If you recall, Game 2 in the 2004 NBA Finals - the Lakers' only win of the series, having found nothing in his stars, he played the then-unproven Luke Walton, who sparked a comeback, giving Kobe the chance to tie in regulation and force OT, going on to win. No one's asking these kids to be saviors, but if they can provide a spark, energize the vets - that can sometimes mean the difference between winning and losing.

LA Piston, the resting of the starters those last 5-6 games may have backfired. Instead of sitting them on the bench for two quarters, Flip should have been giving everyone equal minutes the whole game by playing 3 starters and 2 zoo and 2 starters and 3 zoo crew. Instead the two groups never played together consistently because Flip would not substitute early in the first or third quarter until the starters had played darn near 10 minutes...and then at least 2 of them..Tay and CB or Tay and Rip would play the whole qtr and then the first 2 mins of the 2nd or 4th...this was the same pattern every game unless someone was in foul trouble.

Now instead of putting the younguns out there, he his going with OLD guys in Theo and Hunter and only playing Stuckey who is playing as bad as CB.....:sssh:

We don't need a savior, we just need help. I don't see how AA having the ability to lock down someone and as alexa pointed out, 2 players that are ACTUALLY in this series isn't a skill we could desperately use. AA also makes our whole defense better, and seems to energize Sheed as does Amir with his quickness/energy/rebounding.



I am glad you still have faith. Still think there is a secret weapon out there that can propell the Pistons into the Finals if only the coach would recognize it.

Me. I am not so optomistic.

LA Piston, the resting of the starters those last 5-6 games may have backfired. Instead of sitting them on the bench for two quarters, Flip should have been giving everyone equal minutes the whole game by playing 3 starters and 2 zoo and 2 starters and 3 zoo crew. Instead the two groups never played together consistently because Flip would not substitute early in the first or third quarter until the starters had played darn near 10 minutes...and then at least 2 of them..Tay and CB or Tay and Rip would play the whole qtr and then the first 2 mins of the 2nd or 4th...this was the same pattern every game unless someone was in foul trouble.

Now instead of putting the younguns out there, he his going with OLD guys in Theo and Hunter and only playing Stuckey who is playing as bad as CB.....:sssh:

I think it was a solid strategy if the starters respected it and played hard for the time they were out there instead of treating it like they were on vacation. They have flirted with the switch for so long than they may no longer be able to control it.

The quotes in the post-game pressers and papers are NOT encouraging at all.

No mention of the fact that the Zoo Crew isn't playing, and does anyone think Chauncey might be injured?

I remember reading he had a sore something, and Chauncey is the one player we have that when he has any sort of injury, it kills his game completely.

Dre,

Agreed we should have played the starters with the kids more at the end of the regular season. But this loss is looking a lot like age. I mean Tay and Rip our younger starters were up to the task. We are looking like the 2004 Lakers with key guys older. I do hope I am wrong. But I can't explain the composition of this loss on the coach (who I don't really even like), on the rotation, etc. I mean Miller is taking it to Billips early in the game. And not only Billips but Stuckey got stuffed at the rim.

To get back, we need to bring in some of our youth for defense and stuff up their offense. Flip is in a real bind if that is all certain starters have...

I would like to see us stop playing scared and take the open look. They are waiting for us down low and we don't have starters who are good drivers anyway...

Lpgrl,

If Billips is injured, he shouldn't be driving. He lost the ball, wild shot, etc. that hurt us badly. Then, he lost confidence in the best part of his game, as hi jumper left him. We are either playing stupid--driving into their bigs for nothing or scared (afraid to take the first open look).

I'm reaching. Injury would at least explain some of his performance, but i agree. He needs to pick and choose his spots. The whole team does.

So the Sixers crowd started chanting Overrated in the 4th? Ouch. Glad i didn't catch that.

The Sixers entire team plays like the zoo crew.

Sheed and Dyess = 4 points, 7 rebounds combined in about 60 minutes?

17 turnovers from our starting 5?

That just sucked. The worst part was that Philly scored on just about every mistake we made all night long. Andre Miller was cold blooded.


I'm not even going to go into my diatribe. We just need to play better.

B-Diddly,

I thought that not having the starters game ready was why we lost game one. But it is harder to say that in game three. We are aging at key spots (guard and power forward and center) and I hope I am wrong. We just don't seem to have a playoff other gear.

Sheed is still dominant but couldn't muster up much tonight. Billips is being beated by a second tier guard. Our younger starters Tay and Rip were very good.

The Spurs are not as old as we are really. Parker runs the show at 25. Ginobli is on the cusp at 30. Duncan is 31 I believe. Sheed is now 33. Those couple of years are a lot in the NBA.

To others, our youth have not shown they can score consistently. The coach ( and I have never been a Flip fan) is really in a bind. I think he has to roll the dice and play for defense early (Afflalo on Miller). But this must be combined with opening up our offense. The drives are killing us with Billips leading the way. A coach sizes up what the opponent is doing and counters. They are waiting for us and we are obliging with Billips leading us all the way to the hoop and a block, wild toss or turnover. We need to adjust.

i hope your wrong, but i think your right.

nothing ages a player like a deep playoff run every year.

i was with the people that were not happy with this draw. philly was basically a 50+ win team down the stretch, and at one point i think they beat us, boston, and san antonio all in a row. they are not a bad team. not as good as the pistons, but not bad, and we certainly need to put up a better effort than we have to baet them.

im thinking i might try to force myself to enjoy the remaining games. this could be the end of these guys playing together.

Coaches can motivate players only when player understand that he needs it and wants it. Of course, there are means, how to forcefully "motivate" but those methods may be suitable in Abu Ghairibi prison, not in NBA.

Do not treat motivating like "secret magic of NBA coaches". If player feels no fire, then coach cant lit it agains of player's will. Plain and simple. Analysand has to understand he has a problem and then psychologist can help.

When Ron Harper was here as assistant coach he told that breaking regular season wins record was MJ's personal crusade. Zenmaster was actually against of that idea. But MJ was looking for new challenges and he found it to be good one.

As for bench: play them as you want but as long staring 5 sucks, results will be same.

Sheed, Chauncey, and Jarvis were 1 for 12 from 3-point range. That is pretty bad for those 3.

Somehow Jarvis got off 7 shots in only 9 minutes

Compare that to 6 shots for Rasheed in 34 minutes. Does that seem right?


Tay was 8 for 9. Why not shoot more? Oh yeah, the 5 turnovers.


I'm thinking that we were rattled because of all the white t-shirts in the crowd. Let's just go with that.

One last note. How unexciting was Flip's half time speech on the "wired" feature?

"guys, you don't deserve to be in this game with all the turnovers you had. You need to turn it up out there. (sound of florescent lights buzzing) So we're going to go out there and turn it up a little."


God. So many people to blame and it just doesn't make me feel any better.

I like LB and i hate Flip. But LB was not a fan of playing rookies. Max would have been another milicic.

WWLD

If Larry could get over his prima donna'ish and stayed in Detroit, no way JMax would not be starting, no way Hayes would be on the roster with his lack of D, and no way Hermann would not have earned some pt.

Stuckey would probably be a perennial DNP, but Aflalo would get some burn, AND the starters would be playing consistent hard nosed hoops.

I like LB and i hate Flip. But LB was not a fan of playing rookies. Max would have been another milicic.I don't think so. Jmax is a physical, athletic guy with collegiate experience, but Darko was still wet behind the ears. Very different. I think LB would have been happy to coach & play Jmax. Coaching Darko, as young as he was, was more of a baby sitting responsibility Joe laid on Larry.

Have mercy, Flip need some help because he won't got no any call from top notch franchise if the Pistons fail to go to ECF.

Things I am sick of...

-Chauncey's playoff no-shows (This is the 3rd year in a row he's turned into a scrub in the playoffs).

- The force-feeding of certain guys, which leads to no ball movement, and tough shots late in the clock.

- No one to attack consistently. Stuckey will be there in the future, but he has a little ways to go, and his Coach/teammates won't give him a chance as a rook.

- AJ and AA riding the pine. We need hustle and energy, yet 2 of our best hustle guys are chilaxin' on the bench.

Pistons DNA....

People talk about turn overs. Pro players don't just turn the ball over. Its the other team that does it to them. Same thing with standing around and goingISO. It takes a lot of work to execute. It takes a lot more when the defense knows what you are executing and is intent on stopping that...not just contesting your shot in the end.

You need to bootstrap and get your willpower on. The playoffs are not about execution. its about winning.

my buddy and i both had other places we had to be last night, so neither of us saw the game live. i was able to catch the score when it was 60-50, then i went to another bar and saw eli zaret interviewing reggie evans and knew it was bad. then i saw 95-75 and thought...wtf??

i'm debating whether or not to torture myself and watch. i think i will just because i need to see what is happening out there. i still think we'll win the series, but it should not be coming to this.

i don't think flip has done a great job so far in the playoffs, and if we flame out in the 1st round i won't be sad that he gets canned, but at the same time he won't be the first person i blame. it will be the players. i hope he doesn't become an escape goat (;p) on this forum while the starters are not held accountable.

to the starters: this is the f'ing playoffs, how can you not bring it every game? if you're that bored with basketball why not retire? how hard is it to play with passion for TWO MONTHS out of the year? are you really okay with being laughed at by the rest of the league, embarassed, and called out? i'm usually of the opinion that pride is overrated, but c'mon...you are crapping on your own legacy. was that ONE championship enough? if so, get the hell out of detroit because you're not wanted anymore.

my buddy and i both had other places we had to be last night, so neither of us saw the game live. i was able to catch the score when it was 60-50, then i went to another bar and saw eli zaret interviewing reggie evans and knew it was bad. then i saw 95-75 and thought...wtf??

i'm debating whether or not to torture myself and watch. i think i will just because i need to see what is happening out there. i still think we'll win the series, but it should not be coming to this.

i don't think flip has done a great job so far in the playoffs, and if we flame out in the 1st round i won't be sad that he gets canned, but at the same time he won't be the first person i blame. it will be the players. i hope he doesn't become an escape goat (;p) on this forum while the starters are not held accountable.

to the starters: this is the f'ing playoffs, how can you not bring it every game? if you're that bored with basketball why not retire? how hard is it to play with passion for TWO MONTHS out of the year? are you really okay with being laughed at by the rest of the league, embarassed, and called out? i'm usually of the opinion that pride is overrated, but c'mon...you are crapping on your own legacy. was that ONE championship enough? if so, get the hell out of detroit because you're not wanted anymore.

Good. Fire flip AND players or it wont work.

I think, our starting 5 feels a feel of impunity and when flip gets fired and nothing happens with starting 5, their feel of impunity only increases. Seems that dumars has not been able to tell them that they are not his "darlings".

Rax, I think this is it. Unless we ignite and blast thru the finals, we have to dismantle the core. I'd keep CB, Sheed. Trade the rest for peanuts and picks.

Good. Fire flip AND players or it wont work.

I think, our starting 5 feels a feel of impunity and when flip gets fired and nothing happens with starting 5, their feel of impunity only increases. Seems that dumars has not been able to tell them that they are not his "darlings".
I totally agree. Their is enough blame to go around right now. Flip, the players and Joe D. all have a role to play in it.

Read all of your posts and I gotta say, that was more enjoyable than watching this game.

I doubt seriously that LB gets a job back here EVER. Way too much bad blood there between the owner and Brown. I'm not sure even Brown could motivate these guys.

I'm with 'Hog, Pistons still win this thing (probably in 7), but they're screwing themselves up for the rest of the playoffs with these tough first-rounders.

And if they lose in the first round, expect a different team next season. It will be Joe D's biggest challenge to dump the dead weight and replace it with something decent.

Hopefully, Flip will be the first to go. I think Flip should go if they don't push Boston heavily in the ECF. Probably too early to be talking about the ECF at this point though.

I do like how the media have been ALL OVER this team for being lazy. It makes me smile because we've all known it for a while and finally the media have picked up on it. Good for them.

Rax, I think this is it. Unless we ignite and blast thru the finals, we have to dismantle the core. I'd keep CB, Sheed. Trade the rest for peanuts and picks.


why would you keep cb?

. . . I do like how the media have been ALL OVER this team for being lazy. It makes me smile because we've all known it for a while and finally the media have picked up on it. Good for them.

The media overhere had known it for a while too, we had only one lived Pistons game on TV since Jan. and none of PO game yet.

I usually agree with Slippy, even though he has developed the habit of being the dispenser of tough medicine.

But no way you keep CB. I am AND am not, picking on Chaunce. If he's the leader of this team as he claims to be, then the losses are on him, not Sheed, Rip or Tay.

It's not like he doesn't have talent around him, and he is in a position to directly involve them.

Philly is just too young, too energetic, too athletic, and too hungry. Last night, in Game 3 of the first round, the Pistons surrendered. From here on out, it's going to be ugly.

I am so disappointed in the way the pistons have played during this series, I can't even force myself to look at most of the game and as you have noticed, I can't even find enough strength to log into pistonsforum chat. I am thoroughly saddened by the pistons play in this series.

My greatest nightmare has come become my most obvious reality. I would just like to point out three key areas at work here. Again I am speaking for "self" and "self" only. In no way do these comments represent the views of pistonsforum.com. (smile)

1) "The Flip curse", he's never been able to get to the big dance, whether it is game planning, setting rotations, making key adjustments at the appropriate time, fear of failure, self-fullfilling prophecy i.e.

2) Last night they looked slow, old, disinterested and possessed absolutely no desire to win this game. Yes, they were outplayed, outcoached, outmanned and just totally OUT of it. If a picture is worth a "thousand words", I would love to know what Joe D was thinking when the camera flashed on his face last night.

3) Flip not utilizing the bench effectively during the playoffs, no Amir, Juan Dixon, Afflalo, Hermann, and to be perfectly honest, Flip's ability to utilize the talent on this team has always been suspect.

4) I am looking forward to next year because changes to this Pistons team is imminent.

after denver loses to the lakers in the 1st round, ship CB back to his hometown and bring in AI

WWLD

If Larry could get over his prima donna'ish and stayed in Detroit, no way JMax would not be starting, no way Hayes would be on the roster with his lack of D, and no way Hermann would not have earned some pt.

Stuckey would probably be a perennial DNP, but Aflalo would get some burn, AND the starters would be playing consistent hard nosed hoops.

Even the most die hard LB haters are realizing they were wrong.

I know it premature, but we can afford to let go the following Pistons personnel this summer

Flip Sanders
Dave Cowens
Lindsey Hunter
Theo Ratliff
Antonio Mcdyess
Jarvis Hayes
Walter Herrmann
and one of the following three (take your pick)
Rip, Sheed or Billups
and Bill Davidson sells team to a Dave Bing and Bob Lanier conglomerate..:gun1:

I usually agree with Slippy, even though he has developed the habit of being the dispenser of tough medicine.

But no way you keep CB. I am AND am not, picking on Chaunce. If he's the leader of this team as he claims to be, then the losses are on him, not Sheed, Rip or Tay.

It's not like he doesn't have talent around him, and he is in a position to directly involve them.

Philly is just too young, too energetic, too athletic, and too hungry. Last night, in Game 3 of the first round, the Pistons surrendered. From here on out, it's going to be ugly.

CB is the least tradable though. if changes are needed in the off-season then good luck trying to move that contract. With CB we could have just re-signed the future most expensive 3rd guard in the league.

CB is the least tradable though. if changes are needed in the off-season then good luck trying to move that contract. With CB we could have just re-signed the future most expensive 3rd guard in the league.

CB can be moved. Look at Jason Kidd. A team that thinks they just need that one player might make a deal for him.

But no way you keep CB. I am AND am not, picking on Chaunce. If he's the leader of this team as he claims to be, then the losses are on him, not Sheed, Rip or Tay.


Chauncey Billups has got the fear. He is play is tentative.

In each Piston playoff run where Chauncey has been the man, the run has ended when Chauncey got the fear and the team imploded. This year Chauncey got the fear in game one, round one at the start of the second half.

The Pistons aren't lackadaisical or disinterested, they are struggling to play behind a leader who is choking. Did you see him come off of a screen for a wide open 17 footer, and miss the rim by 2 feet? Shades of Stackhouse.

But Chauncey can't be choking. He is Mr. Bigshot, he was the finals MVP.

Yes, but that was when Ben Walllace was the man. The problem is that Chauncey is trying to be something that he is not. He very badly wants to be the man but he isn't the personality type to be the man.


The long term solution is clear, trade Chauncey or bring in a player with enough cache to replace Chauncey as the team leader. Clear but not easy.

In the short term, I think we could beat Philly by starting Juan Dixon and banning Chauncey from the arena (the stink of choking must be quarantined). To be contenders again some other Piston needs to step up, call Chauncey out and take up the mantle of leadership. In retrospect I think Ben Wallace was a reluctant leader who saw this same thing happening in the Orlando series and couldn't take it.

In the short term, I think we could beat Philly by starting Juan Dixon and banning Chauncey from the arena (the stink of choking must be quarantined). To be contenders again some other Piston needs to step up, call Chauncey out and take up the mantle of leadership. In retrospect I think Ben Wallace was a reluctant leader who saw this same thing happening in the Orlando series and couldn't take it.
I wouldn't go that far, but at least dress Dixon and bring him instead of Hunter

Philly is just too young, too energetic, too athletic, and too hungry. Last night, in Game 3 of the first round, the Pistons surrendered. From here on out, it's going to be ugly.

I concur sadly. Last night when the camera panned the bench I had to blink a few times to make sure I wasn't seeing the faces of the Lakers when we beat them for the championship. It was a devastating loss for the veteran core of this team. Shock, disbelief and what looked to me like resignation. I hope they surprise me and come out and win the series, but I think there would have to be a very good psychological motivator like Phil Jackson (who lost that time in spite of his psychological motivating skills) at the helm of this team for them to pull this thing out now.

As for Chauncey, frankly I think he should be the first to go. Talented yes. Versatile no. A strong leader no. Someone in the Best Starting Four needs to be traded. Not just benched. They are so stale. Even in many of the games they won this season we were holding our breath for the bench to come in and save the day alot of the time.

The whole game reminded me of that Lakers series, actually.

my buddy and i both had other places we had to be last night, so neither of us saw the game live. i was able to catch the score when it was 60-50, then i went to another bar and saw eli zaret interviewing reggie evans and knew it was bad. then i saw 95-75 and thought...wtf??

i'm debating whether or not to torture myself and watch. i think i will just because i need to see what is happening out there. i still think we'll win the series, but it should not be coming to this.

i don't think flip has done a great job so far in the playoffs, and if we flame out in the 1st round i won't be sad that he gets canned, but at the same time he won't be the first person i blame. it will be the players. i hope he doesn't become an escape goat (;p) on this forum while the starters are not held accountable.

to the starters: this is the f'ing playoffs, how can you not bring it every game? if you're that bored with basketball why not retire? how hard is it to play with passion for TWO MONTHS out of the year? are you really okay with being laughed at by the rest of the league, embarassed, and called out? i'm usually of the opinion that pride is overrated, but c'mon...you are crapping on your own legacy. was that ONE championship enough? if so, get the hell out of detroit because you're not wanted anymore.

I personally don't think they aren't bringing it per se. And i think this whole "overconfident", "we are not trying hard enough" are just things they say because they are in denial about the fact that they are no longer dominant.

Doors | The End lyrics (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/doors/the+end_20042686.html)

This is The End....
my special friend,
.....The End

YouTube - The Doors - the end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJfw7ezitCM&feature=related)

YouTube - The Doors-The Movie (The End) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3vatb-DHj0)

Things I am sick of...

-Chauncey's playoff no-shows (This is the 3rd year in a row he's turned into a scrub in the playoffs).

- The force-feeding of certain guys, which leads to no ball movement, and tough shots late in the clock.

- No one to attack consistently. Stuckey will be there in the future, but he has a little ways to go, and his Coach/teammates won't give him a chance as a rook.

- AJ and AA riding the pine. We need hustle and energy, yet 2 of our best hustle guys are chilaxin' on the bench.

Great Post. Pretty much summed it up.

And i agree with Roscoe, it's about to get ugly. You've given a young team all the confidence in the world, and your coach is inept at making any sort of adjustments.

I think the most disheartening thing is the Pistons looked defeated. They don't even fight back anymore.

I agree with most everyone else. Chauncey is the guy to go. Maybe try to get back a youngish center and good backup calibur PG and give the reigns over to Rodney. The time is now to change the mentality of this team.

Problem is you just cant throw players on the court for just "try if it works". Heck,in such cases players have no idea what they are doing, because of they are...just trying what they can do. In most cases such things wont work.And how AA or AJ play, well, they have nothing to do with how Young or somebody else plays.

Im my opinion this bench is not capable for POs leave or take it. As long as Davidson refuses to pay lux tax. Our staring 5 eats 80-85% of salary cap and under such conditions dumars cant hire impact players. All what dumars has are rookie contracts and vet minimums.

What do you mean "you just can't throw players on the court"? They just finished playing 82 games. Did you miss the whole regular season?

"No idea what they are doing"? I think someone else has no idea.

One dimensional players cannot at the same time masterfully defend, outrebound, penetrate, etc. There were way too many holes; one or two players from bench are not capable of covering them. I'm still sticking with that: with bench on the floor sixers could have extend their lead. Do not treat bench like whatever situation it is, answer is there.If they are so good players why are they sitting on the bench? Thats it. Want better bench? Then davidson has to pay lux tax.

So another words we should just dress 5 players for the play offs because the starters are the only players with skillz. Even though most of the players on the bench have been playing basketball since they could walk. How ridiculous.

It's a good thing there was an injury on the team Michael Jordan played for. He would have never got off the bench because he couldn't shoot a lick when he came in the league.

Down 2 to 1 to a young, tough, Philly team and everyone in here is ready to blow up the team.

I'll check back here after Sunday's game.

Down 2 to 1 to a young, tough, Philly team and everyone in here is ready to blow up the team.

I'll check back here after Sunday's game.

In my defense, I was ready to blow up the team 2 years ago. :)

Down 2 to 1 to a young, tough, Philly team and everyone in here is ready to blow up the team.

I'll check back here after Sunday's game.

Linwood, have you benn watching? This team is self destructing right before our eyes! It`s not just the fact that they are down 2-1, it`s how they got there.

You have to admit, this is embarrasing as a fan, and it should be to the Piston orginization also.

This team is self destructing right before our eyes! It`s not just the fact that they are down 2-1, it`s how they got there.


Yep. I think it will be very difficult for the Pistons to rebound and win this series. All of the psychological factors are now favoring the 76ers and are working against the Pistons.

Linwood, have you benn watching? This team is self destructing right before our eyes! It`s not just the fact that they are down 2-1, it`s how they got there.

You have to admit, this is embarrasing as a fan, and it should be to the Piston orginization also.

I have been watching. I agree that it's embarrasing to watch a team shoot over 60% and have a solid lead in the first half, only to shoot 20% and lose convincingly in the second.

But... I've seen this all before. Many times before, and I'm going to wait until it's actually over to call it over.

I have been watching. I agree that it's embarrasing to watch a team shoot over 60% and have a solid lead in the first half, only to shoot 20% and lose convincingly in the second.

But... I've seen this all before. Many times before, and I'm going to wait until it's actually over to call it over.

Ok, remember, those Nets, Heat, Pacer teams were much better teams than this 76`er team. I wouldn`t compare any of thos series with this one.

Ok, remember, those Nets, Heat, Pacer teams were much better teams than this 76`er team. I wouldn`t compare any of thos series with this one.

I think this 76ers team is under rated. They had one of the best records in the league post All-Star break.

I'm not saying the Pistons haven't played poorly... I'm just not quite ready to panic. Maybe after tonight, I'll be there with you guys. :pound:

I think this 76ers team is under rated. They had one of the best records in the league post All-Star break.

I'm not saying the Pistons haven't played poorly... I'm just not quite ready to panic. Maybe after tonight, I'll be there with you guys. :pound:

I am not in panic mode, just accepting reality. There is no way this team wins a championship. Watching these playoffs there are teams that want to advance much more than the Pistons do.

To talk all season long about being bored till the post season, then come out against a 7 seed (I don`t give a sh%$# what their record was since the all star break) and play like they did tells me a lot about the mindset of this team.

This, we been here before, we know what it takes crap is old and doesn`t fly with me anymore. The Pistons may win this series but they will not, I repeat will not win a ship, and anything less is unacceptable.