On the Loose: Larry Brown (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-112/On-the-Loose--Larry-Brown.html)

The Philadelphia 76ers announced today that Larry Brown has resigned as Executive Vice President. From the press release: In January of 2007, Brown rejoined the Sixers organization as Executive Vice President, less than six years removed from coaching the franchise to the NBA Finals in 2001.
"It's rare you'll find a separation between an organization and an executive as amicable as the one the 76ers had with Larry Brown today," said Stefanski. "Larry was born to coach and this is something he and I talked about when I took the job here back in December, so it comes as no surprise to me. Working with Larry was always a pleasure and to watch him contribute with Maurice, his staff and the players was terrific."
Which means: fire up the rumor mill!
You have to think he's going to end up coaching somewhere.

Any guesses where Larry will land? Chicago? Cleveland? The Low's house?

Chicago, seems to a good place for Larry. Team full of youngsters who he can coach up, but the brass may be hesitant because LB is a carpet bagger. Chicago gets either him or Carlisle.

I don't know if I ever told this story here, but a few years ago, I found myself paired up on the golf course with a guy on the board for the Chicago Bulls. It was during the contract negotiation with Scott Skiles after he made the playoffs the year before I believe. It was when the negotiations were getting combative and Skiles was threatening to walk.

Anyways, I just remember this guy said something like "he thinks he %%%%ing Phil Jackson, he hasn't done %%%%." At that point in time, I thought that the Bulls should sign him at all costs and it was eye opening to see how the guys on the inside were really irritated with him because of his over inflated ego.

The only reason that I bring this up is because if those guys didn't like negotiating with Skiles (when he was 1 step above a nobody), then I'm not sure they'll be able to go through the process of dealing with LB, who is pound for pound the most irritating employee on the planet.

The only reason that I bring this up is because if those guys didn't like negotiating with Skiles (when he was 1 step above a nobody), then I'm not sure they'll be able to go through the process of dealing with LB, who is pound for pound the most irritating employee on the planet.

I've always wondered how much of NBA negotiations are done with the prospective employee actually in the room and how much is done with only the agent. Most people aren't all that comfortable in salary negotiations and if you're paying an agent all that money, the temptation must be to turn him or her loose and get out of the way. Does the player or potential coach even know everything that is going on?

Hmmm... Larry Brown and Ben Gordon. Uh, no.

If LB shows up, BG will get traded before camp starts.

I'm sure all of the negotiations went through the agent, but the actual person still agrees to go along with the aggressive strategy.

Those agents must be pretty relentless dudes.

That is a good point about BG. Also, I don't think LB would be a big Tyrus Thomas fan... or vise versa.

There are some other players that would really fit his system though: Hinrich, Duhon, Gooden, Sefolosha.

That is a good point about BG. Also, I don't think LB would be a big Tyrus Thomas fan... or vise versa.

There are some other players that would really fit his system though: Hinrich, Duhon, Gooden, Sefolosha.

Yeah, despite the failures of this year, there is still a good core there (Don't forget Deng.) and ample trade bait. Gordon and Thomas might get them a good big man or a strong two guard. Blend in a good coach and you never know.

I think Isiah Thomas and Larry Brown should open a school to train coaches. Some featured courswork could be:

"Don't Ever Quit: 10 Easy Steps to Getting that Buyout You Need" (taught by Brown)

"Pick 'n Roll: Pick at Everybody and then Roll to Your Next Gig (taught by Brown)

"Positive Persona: How to Convince Others You're Headed in the Right Direction Despite the Bottom Line (taught by Thomas)

"Foul! Hiding Your Indescretions by Saying the Right Things" (taught by Thomas)

The Davidson Connection: Establishing a Pleasant Relationship with the Boss (co-taught by Brown and Thomas)

LB needs to hold out and wait to see how Flip folds his cards the next 7-8 weeks.

If Flip fails, Joe and Mr D will need to just suck it up and bring back the only guy that can reel the egos back in and discipline these guys before father time takes over. After all Flip waited out in the Palace parking lot for 4 months waiting for the Pistons to can LB.:MusicBigGrin:

Most people aren't all that comfortable in salary negotiations and if you're paying an agent all that money, the temptation must be to turn him or her loose and get out of the way. Does the player or potential coach even know everything that is going on?

L.B. doesn't strike me as a "Turn him loose" type guy. I'm pretty sure that he'd insist on being very involved in any contract talks.

I really hope that the Bulls aren't interested in him and he ends up going to a team outside the Pistons' division at least. I think that Brown would do VERY well with that young Chicago team before wearing out his welcome and being forced to unceremoniously resign with a fat severance package.

The NBA expert on first and ten thinks the two most likely spots for him to end up are atlanta and denver if denver fails to win the series... he said AI and the rest of the players will ask for larry brown? That seemed like a stretch but if that talent there ever learned disipline and defense.... scary... unless brown would trade half the team away lol.

The NBA expert on first and ten thinks the two most likely spots for him to end up are atlanta and denver if denver fails to win the series... he said AI and the rest of the players will ask for larry brown? That seemed like a stretch but if that talent there ever learned disipline and defense.... scary... unless brown would trade half the team away lol.

That doesn't seem too far fetched. Iverson really wants to win it all and this is probably his last and best chance (this bunch in Denver, not this year). And LB is the only guy who's gotten him to the finals before.

And you're right - way scary.

You can bet JR Smith will be gone if Larry shows up.

The NBA expert on first and ten thinks the two most likely spots for him to end up are atlanta and denver if denver fails to win the series... he said AI and the rest of the players will ask for larry brown? That seemed like a stretch but if that talent there ever learned disipline and defense.... scary... unless brown would trade half the team away lol.

Would L.B. wanna be the dude who shoves his buddy Mike Woodson out the door in the ATL?

Denver makes sense. They love him out here!

I CAN'T picture the likes of K-Mart, Carmelo Anthony & JR Smith playing "the right way" though. If L.B. makes a Mile-Migh comeback, I expect a grip of roster moves.

LB needs to hold out and wait to see how Flip folds his cards the next 7-8 weeks.

If Flip fails, Joe and Mr D will need to just suck it up and bring back the only guy that can reel the egos back in and discipline these guys before father time takes over. After all Flip waited out in the Palace parking lot for 4 months waiting for the Pistons to can LB.:MusicBigGrin:

If I were God, I couldn't make this happen fast enough.

Dallas.

That doesn't seem too far fetched. Iverson really wants to win it all and this is probably his last and best chance (this bunch in Denver, not this year). And LB is the only guy who's gotten him to the finals before.

And you're right - way scary.

You can bet JR Smith will be gone if Larry shows up.

Just curous, why do you guys always get hung up on LB trading guys away?

He's not the GM. He wasn't here and wasn't anywhere except maybe Philly where all he did there was get a one man team to the finals. He doesn't have any power to trade anybody. He can ask till his hair falls out, but the ACTUAL GM gets to make that decision. I just don't get it.

Just curous, why do you guys always get hung up on LB trading guys away?

He's not the GM. He wasn't here and wasn't anywhere except maybe Philly where all he did there was get a one man team to the finals. He doesn't have any power to trade anybody. He can ask till his hair falls out, but the ACTUAL GM gets to make that decision. I just don't get it.

No, not the GM, but surely he would have some input. You don't hire someone of that stature, and pay him the kind of money he is going to want, and not listen when he says that some guy doesn't fit in the system he wants to put in place.

B/c once he's in there, he makes his feelings known. The GM is afraid that if they don't comply, then LB will make life difficult for everyone by going on strike.

No, not the GM, but surely he would have some input. You don't hire someone of that stature, and pay him the kind of money he is going to want, and not listen when he says that some guy doesn't fit in the system he wants to put in place.

THat's like saying Saunders could have a fit because Joe didn't give him all jumpshooters once he was hired. It just seems like all these assumptions and attributes only get applied to LB, but get explained as though every coach has some sort of input.

They guy is the coach, he has no power above that. Plain and simple. No GM is terrified that their coach doesn't have the guys he wants...they'll just fire him and hire the coach that will coach the guys he has.

B/c once he's in there, he makes his feelings known. The GM is afraid that if they don't comply, then LB will make life difficult for everyone by going on strike.

That's hardly true, the guy has been a coach for over 30 years. No one is afraid of his opinion.

LB has to be one of the 1st people in history to be completely hated for succeeding and for what he may or may not could have possibly or not so possibly have been thinking or may have wanted to think if he was so inclined as to have the audacity to have thoughts or not have thoughts that might possibly be attributed to him through the talk radio, newspaper, or fan forum sphere of reality or not so much reality based on what you are or are not willing to believe based on your thoughts (or unthoughts), wishes, or desires, which may or may not revolve around your love of a particular basketball team vs. your own thoughts on what people should or should not have done based on what they really may or may not have done based on your point of view or desire to accept. That is, of course, if we were talking about something real.

That was a helluva long sentence, Low. :laugh:

I do agree with you that it's not realistic to expect that LB will come in and demand that half the roster get traded, or whatever. But I do think he and any potential GMs he talks to will consider how much he does or doesn't like the roster that's there. It wouldn't be all that surprising if (for example) he said to Denver, "I'd like to work for you, but I don't think I can make it work with J.R. Smith."

THat's like saying Saunders could have a fit because Joe didn't give him all jumpshooters once he was hired.
You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that LB is superior in record and value as a coach, and then condemn that no one claims Flip is his equal in clout.

Flip will not be paid like Brown, he doesn't have the resume of Brown, and I doubt you will find many people who will claim he is Larry Brown's equal as a coach.

Not to mention that LB is the one with the actual history of meddling in the front office, not Flip.

That's hardly true, the guy has been a coach for over 30 years. No one is afraid of his opinion.
No, they are afraid he will shut down on them like he did in NY, and then rape the franchise for a settlement when he gets fired.

LB has to be one of the 1st people in history to be completely hated for succeeding .........
His reputation as a carpet bagger precedes him as a winner. And that's on him. It goes back to the 80s.

I think LB is a great coach, I think he's a wildly fascinating character and really interesting to have around. But I don't think he's a saint.

Just as you feel the people who argue that everything is wrong with LB are painting him as the devil, it seems to me that you go out of your way to paint him as Jesus. In reality, he's probably somewhere in between.

LB needs to hold out and wait to see how Flip folds his cards the next 7-8 weeks.

If Flip fails, Joe and Mr D will need to just suck it up and bring back the only guy that can reel the egos back in and discipline these guys before father time takes over. After all Flip waited out in the Palace parking lot for 4 months waiting for the Pistons to can LB.:MusicBigGrin:In my ideal world, this would happen. But I wonder how excited the starters would be to have LB back after playing for Coach Powder-Puff for three years?

LB would probably enjoy teaching our group of D-minded kids and he could afford to bench a starter when they were taking the night off.

LB needs to hold out and wait to see how Flip folds his cards the next 7-8 weeks.

If Flip fails, Joe and Mr D will need to just suck it up and bring back the only guy that can reel the egos back in and discipline these guys before father time takes over. After all Flip waited out in the Palace parking lot for 4 months waiting for the Pistons to can LB.:MusicBigGrin:

Sadly, i really would want that to happen. LB maybe on the crazy side, but he's a damn good coach.

Crazy like a fox :D

If I were God, I couldn't make this happen fast enough.

Good thing you aren't.

Flip is not a good coach IMO, but LB is definitely NOT the answer. There was a reason it didn't work out last time. No way it happens.

Hmmm...I wonder what Tom Izzo is doing these days????????:MusicBigGrin:

I think we need to go in a different direction, assuming we don't make it to the Finals again which is not looking too good right now.

Seems like LB is good at relating to bubble players like Billups, Rip and Prince were when he was here but not so well suited for vets and young players.

Well, I enjoyed this team's two trips to The Finals...sorry.

Think Laimbeer will give Davidson the Company Man discount when he moves from the Shock to the Stons?

Think Laimbeer will give Davidson the Company Man discount when he moves from the Shock to the Stons?

He is not the answer.

Think Laimbeer will give Davidson the Company Man discount when he moves from the Shock to the Stons?

Well, you're counting on the fact that Dumars would re-nig (sp?) on his vow to never hire a coach without previous NBA head coaching experience, considering he got hired as gm with no prior NBA GM'ing experience.

Well, I enjoyed this team's two trips to The Finals...sorry.

Larry was through here. He lost the team.

Flip on the other hand, never had the team...

Larry was through here. He lost the team.

Flip on the other hand, never had the team...

Which is precisely why I never wanted him hired in the first place. I could deal with the fact that LB was gone, but at least look around before bringing in a proven choker to replace him.

Which is precisely why I never wanted him hired in the first place. I could deal with the fact that LB was gone, but at least look around before bringing in a proven choker to replace him.

Name me please, who were available besides flip? And did they want this job?

Fans treat all those hirings and trades as they are available on demand. They are not, low

Which is precisely why I never wanted him hired in the first place. I could deal with the fact that LB was gone, but at least look around before bringing in a proven choker to replace him.

Was he fired? Or did he quit...

I think they did look around. Nobody was out there. They wanted Nate M. I think.

I was one of the people who thought Flip would do OK. I was wrong. I admitted that long ago. I think most people here agree he not only sucks, but he seems like a jerk too.

I really think it's time to give Lambs or Izzo a chance. Personally, I really liked RC, but no chance we see him.

If Detroit exits in round one, Detroit has an excuse to fire him. No need to explain their actions.

Was he fired? Or did he quit...

I think they did look around. Nobody was out there. They wanted Nate M. I think.

I was one of the people who thought Flip would do OK. I was wrong. I admitted that long ago. I think most people here agree he not only sucks, but he seems like a jerk too.

I really think it's time to give Lambs or Izzo a chance. Personally, I really liked RC, but no chance we see him.

If Detroit exits in round one, Detroit has an excuse to fire him. No need to explain their actions.

I say give Laimbs a few years with a revamped roster.

Was he fired? Or did he quit...

I think they did look around. Nobody was out there. They wanted Nate M. I think.
If I recall correctly, Nate got hired a week or two before Flip.

If I recall correctly, Nate got hired a week or two before Flip.

We do not know whether McMillan wanted job here, though.

If I recall correctly, Nate got hired a week or two before Flip.

Yeah, I was saying Flip wasn't the first choice.

Well, you're counting on the fact that Dumars would re-nig (sp?) on his vow to never hire a coach without previous NBA head coaching experience, considering he got hired as gm with no prior NBA GM'ing experience.

:pound:True...

We do not know whether McMillan wanted job here, though.

Must not have if he wasn't willing to wait and see?

Name me please, who were available besides flip? And did they want this job?

Fans treat all those hirings and trades as they are available on demand. They are not, low

There was a handful of guys available at the time. I'd have to go back and research exactly who was unemployeed 3 years ago (could you do that?). Fact is, we never even talked to anyone else...this guy was named even before LB was out the door. Besides, you don't just hire a coach by opening your door and checking to see who fell in.

You DO THE LEG WORK. YOU TURN OVER EVERY STONE. YOU TRY TO FIND THE GUY THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU, NOT JUST THE GUY WHO'S STANDING OUTSIDE WITH ROSES AND CHOCOLATES.

There was a handful of guys available at the time. I'd have to go back and research exactly who was unemployeed 3 years ago (could you do that?). Fact is, we never even talked to anyone else...this guy was named even before LB was out the door. Besides, you don't just hire a coach by opening your door and checking to see who fell in.

You DO THE LEG WORK. YOU TURN OVER EVERY STONE. YOU TRY TO FIND THE GUY THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU, NOT JUST THE GUY WHO'S STANDING OUTSIDE WITH ROSES AND CHOCOLATES.


Do you really think that dumars didnt do that? Do you really think that dumars was fooled by "flips' charm"?

LB to......

Memphis
The only team he can't make worse.

Do you really think that dumars didnt do that? Do you really think that dumars was fooled by "flips' charm"?

He hired him didn't he?

We do not know whether McMillan wanted job here, though.What coach wouldn't have wanted this job back then?

He hired him didn't he?

Is it that a sign that dumars actually didnt try other options?

Is it that a sign that dumars actually didnt try other options?

ESPN.com reports that it only took about 24 hours for the Detroit Pistons to come to terms with former Minnesota Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders.

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

It is not. We will never now how many negotiations dumars had. He signed with flip but it does't mean that he didnt had more negotiatons AT THE SAME TIME.

And we do no know what Nate wanted. Theory that Nate wanted pistons but dumars decided to go with flip is purely speculation.

Yeah Nate was available but as all have indicated he was already signed by the Blazers before the finals were over. Phil Jackson was also available, and but he re-signed with the Lakers even though he secretly liked what the Pistons had on the floor.

Flip had a wink-wink handshake with Joe as soon as troubled started brewing between the Cavs GM and the NY papers regarding LB. Flip was hanging around the Palace as early as the second round.

Five worst moves during Joes tenure>>, Drafting Darko, letting LB Go, hiring Flip, letting Memo go and not demanding a S & T for Ben.

Yeah Nate was available but as all have indicated he was already signed by the Blazers before the finals were over. Phil Jackson was also available, and but he re-signed with the Lakers even though he secretly liked what the Pistons had on the floor.

Flip had a wink-wink handshake with Joe as soon as troubled started brewing between the Cavs GM and the NY papers regarding LB. Flip was hanging around the Palace as early as the second round.

Five worst moves during Joes tenure>>, Drafting Darko, letting LB Go, hiring Flip, letting Memo go and not demanding a S & T for Ben.

In case of LB dumars could't do anything: LB screwed things up.

Dumars had no means to trump Utah's offer to Memo, S&T with ben was totally excluded: again, dumars had no means to force ben's hand. And I remember that when somebody posted that ben should be traded before his contract ends, that poor poster was executed by lynch mob.

Yeah Nate was available but as all have indicated he was already signed by the Blazers before the finals were over. Phil Jackson was also available, and but he re-signed with the Lakers even though he secretly liked what the Pistons had on the floor.

Flip had a wink-wink handshake with Joe as soon as troubled started brewing between the Cavs GM and the NY papers regarding LB. Flip was hanging around the Palace as early as the second round.

Five worst moves during Joes tenure>>, Drafting Darko, letting LB Go, hiring Flip, letting Memo go and not demanding a S & T for Ben.

The firing of LB was a Bill Davidson thing. And Joe could not technically under the CBA keep both Rasheed Wallace, and Memo Okur. Not financially possible, so I have a hard time blaming that on Joe. Plus you can't "Demand a sign and trade" for a player that is an unrestricted free agent.

Drafting Darko and Hiring Flip i'll put on Joe.

The firing of LB was a Bill Davidson thing....
Drafting Darko and Hiring Flip i'll put on Joe.

That's how I see it.

Drafting Darko and Hiring Flip i'll put on Joe.

Which were two huge mistakes that have kept this franchise from winning more than one 'ship. But that will be another thread for another day. And I'm not saying Joe D hasn't done a lot of good things. He has.

The firing of LB was a Bill Davidson thing. And Joe could not technically under the CBA keep both Rasheed Wallace, and Memo Okur. Not financially possible, so I have a hard time blaming that on Joe. Plus you can't "Demand a sign and trade" for a player that is an unrestricted free agent.

Drafting Darko and Hiring Flip i'll put on Joe.


Well it you recall all I said was the five worst moves during Joe's tenure...yeah it some might say it was Joe, but really if i try to clean it now, it's the five worst/moves/incidents/things to happen to the Pistons organization during Joe's tenure or in the last four years.....does that clean this up?....or can somebody add some others? Some can be blamed on the owner, the GM, the coach, a player or two or the NBA it self...or even a infamous brawl and you can probably go down the the list of all teams and find their five incidents that prevented them from winning or challenging, but as ggazoo said we can start that thread if and when we are eliminated.....:sssh:

I don't want to re-hash it again but LB wanted to leave just as much as Davidson wanted him out. Who remembers all the "I may not be able to coach next season due to my health" claims that LB was making? Who recalls LB taking a couple of weeks off during the season for his surgery and not even bothering to tell Dumars or Davidson? Who recalls LB meeting with Isiah while still under contract with the Pistons?

I believe LB wanted to get fired so he could get his buyout money plus the Knicks deal and I am still standing by it.

Yes LB should have been the coach for the full 5 years. He had a chance to go down in history with his own championship squad but apparently money was more important to him.

I don't want to re-hash it again but LB wanted to leave just as much as Davidson wanted him out. Who remembers all the "I may not be able to coach next season due to my health" claims that LB was making? Who recalls LB taking a couple of weeks off during the season for his surgery and not even bothering to tell Dumars or Davidson? Who recalls LB meeting with Isiah while still under contract with the Pistons?

I believe LB wanted to get fired so he could get his buyout money plus the Knicks deal and I am still standing by it.

Yes LB should have been the coach for the full 5 years. He had a chance to go down in history with his own championship squad but apparently money was more important to him.

agreed, as there saying right now on sports reporters Detroit should have been in 5 straight finals right now, If only the pistons had what San Ant does... somebody that pushes them.

Jordan has fired Sam Vincent. RealGM is saying LB is interested in the job.

RealGM: Wiretap Archives: Bobcats Fire Coach Vincent After One Season (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52184/20080426/bobcats_fire_coach_vincent_after_one_season/hu/)

...and LB ends up in Charlotte.

He'll love Okafor, and probably use him much, much more intelligently than Vincent did. Don't know how Felton will get along with him. Richardson either, for that matter. He'll hate Gerald Wallace and Morrison and Nazr.

Wonder how long it'll take before Jordan and Brown's egos come to a head?

LB coaching Nazr :pound:

Brown and Jordan both bleed Carolina blue. I'm glad LB is back coaching. Whether you like him or not, the guy makes talking about the NBA more interesting.

Might have made it more interesting in Denver than in Charlotte though.

Charlotte seems like a good fit for LB. People who are just going by the Knicks disaster should recall in that the 11 other pro and college head coaching stops he had before that (Charlotte is his 13th), he improved the teams he coached in EVERY situation, with significant improvement in almost all of those cases. 11 of 12 is not bad. As always, he won't be a guy who sticks around for the long haul, and his ego will drive people nuts on occasion, but I'd be happy to have him if I were a Bobcats fan who hadn't had much to cheer about up until now.

Might have made it more interesting in Denver than in Charlotte though.
Yeah, Pound for Pound and the Answer.

agreed, as there saying right now on sports reporters Detroit should have been in 5 straight finals right now, If only the pistons had what San Ant does... somebody that pushes them.


How come San Antonio didn't make the Finals in 2004 and 2006 if they had such a great coach pushing the team?

How come San Antonio didn't make the Finals in 2004 and 2006 if they had such a great coach pushing the team?
Tim Donaghy.

Tim Donaghy.

LB could win with any officials, even Tim Donaghy.

Chris Sheridan of ESPN comes down on the "LB will want to trade everyone" (well, maybe just Okafor and Morrison) side of the fence:

ESPN - Expect LB and MJ to clash sooner -- and later - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=Brown-080429)

LB could win with any officials, even Tim Donaghy.

LB can fly.

Time for Chauncey to call up Raymond Felton.

(and not take calls from Stephon Marbury)

I can't believe the greater fool theory led to MJ.

I don't want to re-hash it again but LB wanted to leave just as much as Davidson wanted him out. Who remembers all the "I may not be able to coach next season due to my health" claims that LB was making? Who recalls LB taking a couple of weeks off during the season for his surgery and not even bothering to tell Dumars or Davidson? Who recalls LB meeting with Isiah while still under contract with the Pistons?

I believe LB wanted to get fired so he could get his buyout money plus the Knicks deal and I am still standing by it.

Yes LB should have been the coach for the full 5 years. He had a chance to go down in history with his own championship squad but apparently money was more important to him.

Max, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that the fact that Davidson paid LB $7 million to leave, instead of LB resigning, is strong evidence that Bill D. wanted LB out more than LB wanted to leave the Pistons. Bill D. is a savvy businessman, and he must have concluded that LB would not resign, or he would not have paid him $7 million to leave.

I do think Larry wanted a new and improved deal from Bill D., and I think he would have been unhappy without one, but I don't think he would have resigned, and I think Bill D. must have drawn the same conclusion.

I think Bill D. could have probably retained LB without giving him a better contract. But I also think Larry deserved a new contract, and that would have been the ideal solution. Keep him and keep him a happy camper. He was, as I said, the perfect coach here.

I also think that LB and his agent went too far in some of their negotiating tactics, and those tactics clearly backfired with Bill D, who apparently was deeply offended by them. But LB is not unique among players or coaches in professional sports in wanting to revise an existing contract to reflect improved market value after a championship, and I will not fault him for that.

I don't want to re-hash it again but LB wanted to leave just as much as Davidson wanted him out. Who remembers all the "I may not be able to coach next season due to my health" claims that LB was making? Who recalls LB taking a couple of weeks off during the season for his surgery and not even bothering to tell Dumars or Davidson? Who recalls LB meeting with Isiah while still under contract with the Pistons?

I believe LB wanted to get fired so he could get his buyout money plus the Knicks deal and I am still standing by it.

Yes LB should have been the coach for the full 5 years. He had a chance to go down in history with his own championship squad but apparently money was more important to him.

Good post, Max. You nailed it once again!



LB can fly.

I believe I can fly.

Good article.

Warning: Low and other Brown loyalists...do NOT read this.:cold:




"At this point, watching a Larry Brown introductory news conference is like catching the last days of Sinatra in Vegas.
There’s really nothing left to see; nothing but an old legend hanging on, so desperate for the lifestyle and applause that he’ll play the songs he knows he can’t deliver, all for a fawning audience so desperate and delusional it willingly will suspend belief."



MJ, Bobcats fall for Brown's tired act - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnpBEuCfokyYmdyrTLCJJi.8vLYF?slug=dw-brownbobcats042908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Good article.

"At this point, watching a Larry Brown introductory news conference is like catching the last days of Sinatra in Vegas.
There’s really nothing left to see; nothing but an old legend hanging on, so desperate for the lifestyle and applause that he’ll play the songs he knows he can’t deliver, all for a fawning audience so desperate and delusional it willingly will suspend belief."




Nice to see someone call Brown out. He is a bad person.

Nice to see someone call Brown out. He is a bad person.


Maybe a bad person...but a Hall of Fame coach.

Good article.

Warning: Low and other Brown loyalists...do NOT read this.:cold:

MJ, Bobcats fall for Brown's tired act - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnpBEuCfokyYmdyrTLCJJi.8vLYF?slug=dw-brownbobcats042908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Pretty harsh article, but I don't agree with its conclusion about LB being gone from there by the end of next season in another acrimonious buyout. With no title expectations and no NY media spotlight, it seems like a better fit for LB to do his well-established thing of improving a young team that hasn't done anything. I don't think whatever happened with USA basketball in '04 has much relevance to a situation like this.

I almost forgot about how LB the Great coached the US to its 1st Bronze medal in the Olympics.

I almost forgot about how LB the Great coached the US to its 1st Bronze medal in the Olympics.

Come on Max. All he had were a bunch of washed up vets and rookies with no idea how to play the right way.

Tim Duncan (not a true center), Allen Iverson (ball hog), LeBron James (no experience), Dwyane Wade (poor jump shot), Amare Stoudemire (not fundamentally sound), Shawn Marion (energy player), Carlos Boozer (screwed over a blind guy), Carmelo Anthony (drafted behind Darko, so he must be bad), Stephon Marbury (plays in cheap shoes), Richard Jefferson (only good for fast break bball), Lamar Odom (shoots with the wrong hand), Emeka Okafor (inexperienced).

It's a miracle that he medaled at all with that rag-tag team.

Come on Max. All he had were a bunch of washed up vets and rookies with no idea how to play the right way.

Tim Duncan (not a true center), Allen Iverson (ball hog), LeBron James (no experience), Dwyane Wade (poor jump shot), Amare Stoudemire (not fundamentally sound), Shawn Marion (energy player), Carlos Boozer (screwed over a blind guy), Carmelo Anthony (drafted behind Darko, so he must be bad), Stephon Marbury (plays in cheap shoes), Richard Jefferson (only good for fast break bball), Lamar Odom (shoots with the wrong hand), Emeka Okafor (inexperienced).

It's a miracle that he medaled at all with that rag-tag team.

I still haven't heard a good answer as to why Darko was left off that team.

Come on Max. All he had were a bunch of washed up vets and rookies with no idea how to play the right way.

Tim Duncan (not a true center), Allen Iverson (ball hog), LeBron James (no experience), Dwyane Wade (poor jump shot), Amare Stoudemire (not fundamentally sound), Shawn Marion (energy player), Carlos Boozer (screwed over a blind guy), Carmelo Anthony (drafted behind Darko, so he must be bad), Stephon Marbury (plays in cheap shoes), Richard Jefferson (only good for fast break bball), Lamar Odom (shoots with the wrong hand), Emeka Okafor (inexperienced).

It's a miracle that he medaled at all with that rag-tag team.


Yea, that "Dream Team" was weak. Besides NBA Championships, All-Star appearances, All-NBA teams, Rookie of the Year, League MVP, All-Defensive Team, and Finals MVPs, what have any of those guys done since the Olympics? Can you say "over-rated"?

I still haven't heard a good answer as to why Darko was left off that team.

lack of an american passport?

Everyone knows they sucked because opposing defenses collapsed the paint and none of those guys can shoot the 3 with any regular consistency. Whoever selected that team thought the best players would win without any regard to matchups, positions and stengths.

A lesson they needed to learn IMO.

I still haven't heard a good answer as to why Darko was left off that team.Didn't he play on the Serbian gangsta team?

Also, they got unlucky when they were forced to play Peurto Rico, lead by Carlos Arroyo at the peak of his powers. No coach could have devised a game plan to contain him.

It was only later that LB figured out how to keep him from scoring.

Also, they got unlucky when they were forced to play Peurto Rico, lead by Carlos Arroyo at the peak of his powers. No coach could have devised a game plan to contain him.

It was only later that LB figured out how to keep him from scoring.

It wasn't overdribbling..it was a whole lot of talent.

Also, they got unlucky when they were forced to play Peurto Rico, lead by Carlos Arroyo at the peak of his powers. No coach could have devised a game plan to contain him.

It was only later that LB figured out how to keep him from scoring.

You convinced me in your last post. LB is the greatest coach that ever lived in any sport and I fully expect the Bobcats to win 74 games and sweep all the way through the playoffs.

We better get it this year before LB is back in the league again.

You convinced me in your last post. LB is the greatest coach that ever lived in any sport and I fully expect the Bobcats to win 74 games and sweep all the way through the playoffs.

We better get it this year before LB is back in the league again.


If Gar Heard is hired as an assistant, I'll second that prediction.

If Gar Heard is hired as an assistant, I'll second that prediction.

He is available? How could that talent slip though the cracks.

I still haven't heard a good answer as to why Darko was left off that team.

Darko wasn't on the US Olympic Team because Larry Brown hates Euros.

Good article.

Warning: Low and other Brown loyalists...do NOT read this.:cold:




"At this point, watching a Larry Brown introductory news conference is like catching the last days of Sinatra in Vegas.
There’s really nothing left to see; nothing but an old legend hanging on, so desperate for the lifestyle and applause that he’ll play the songs he knows he can’t deliver, all for a fawning audience so desperate and delusional it willingly will suspend belief."



MJ, Bobcats fall for Brown's tired act - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnpBEuCfokyYmdyrTLCJJi.8vLYF?slug=dw-brownbobcats042908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

I think the article is absurdly overdone. We read that Larry was all "smiles and lies" at the press conference. Nothing wrong with smiles. And the only lie identified in the article was LB's innocuous statement that there was no place he would rather be than Charlotte. Jordan is "hopelessly naive" and Brown has "bombed" in his "last few ... performances." (Really? Two trips to the finals with the Pistons is a bombed performance?) Also wrong on the facts: Bill D. did not pay Larry 18 million when he was fired. It was 7 million.

Larry was extremely successful here. The knock against him was his flirtation with the Knicks and the Cavs jobs while he was employed by the Pistons. If he met with the Knicks and the Cavs front offices while employed, then it almost surely was with the Pistons' permission. The Heat lost a first round draft pick in 1995 after being accused of tampering when they hired Pat Riley from the Knicks. Those tampering rules are taken seriously. The Pistons did not have to give Brown permission to talk to anybody, and maybe they should have just said "No."

I believe LB wanted more money from the Pistons. If he asked them for permission to speak to other teams, then that would have been a clear signal that he was unhappy with his current contract, and perhaps was getting rebuffed by Bill D. in his request for a new contract.

He is by no means a saint, and if he really did seek permission to talk to the Cavs during the playoffs, that timing would be hard to excuse, though I don't know that it would necessitate his firing by Bill D. Before I would say that it required his dismissal, I would want to know more about the conversations with Joe D. or Bill D. about his contract that preceded it. There may well be fault on both sides. I think he deserved a raise after the championship season, and I don't think he should have had to fight and claw for that.

Great post pistonloyalist.


Larry came here with baggage that the whole world knew about. The only thing we didn't know was how successful he would be as a coach.

Yep we knew what we were getting, but I think Larry expected to not win a ship his first year, and neither did Dumars..... The early win just messed everything up. Larry had done his 3 year job in a year, so he felt it was time to move on....

I will never be convinced that he wanted to come back for a third year, and the way he went about trying to get out of detroit is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.... if he could have just said, Listen I have done all I can do with this guys and I need a new challenge and left for his next team I would have said..... "I think your nuts.... but I respect you for the honesty."

Yep we knew what we were getting, but I think Larry expected to not win a ship his first year, and neither did Dumars..... The early win just messed everything up. Larry had done his 3 year job in a year, so he felt it was time to move on....

I will never be convinced that he wanted to come back for a third year, and the way he went about trying to get out of detroit is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.... if he could have just said, Listen I have done all I can do with this guys and I need a new challenge and left for his next team I would have said..... "I think your nuts.... but I respect you for the honesty."

That would have been out of character for LB...we knew what we were getting. A doddering dinosaur...the neurotic Prima Donna. I don't understand how folks act surprised and outraged that it turned out just like everyone should have known it would. You didn't have to be Nostradamus to see it coming.

We got exactly what we paid for...and more.

That would have been out of character for LB...we knew what we were getting. A doddering dinosaur...the neurotic Prima Donna. I don't understand how folks act surprised and outraged that it turned out just like everyone should have known it would. You didn't have to be Nostradamus to see it coming.

We got exactly what we paid for...and more.

suprised at what we got? nope... ok suprised they won that fast.... yea

But just because we got what we thought we were going to get in a carpet bagger that left on his own terms... doesn't mean I don't have the right to be upset with him.... I will always be grateful for him for the 04 season and bitter at him for his antics of the 05 season.

I can't believe the greater fool theory led to MJ.
Oh I can. All of Isiah's flaws as an exec and coach are exponentially greater in MJ.

Surprised to see the LB bashing thread. I think he might give it an honest go for awhile in Charlotte, it's too close to Chapel Hill for him to muck around much with his legacy...

It seems like the common perception is that LB got us a Championship while with Flip, it's up to the players.

Either LB is getting too much credit or Flip is not getting enough blame.

I'm going to play it safe and assume that I need to attack both. :stirthepot:

It seems like the common perception is that LB got us a Championship while with Flip, it's up to the players.

Either LB is getting too much credit or Flip is not getting enough blame.

I'm going to play it safe and assume that I need to attack both. :stirthepot:

With all the LB bashing it seems like he had nothing to do with the two great years. Folks complained all the time he was here. Bottom line for coaches is winning. He won and people complain because he had character flaws.

Flip doesn't get enough credit for being a great regular season coach and an all around nice guy. The fact that he still hasn't figured out his rotations is secondary.

Davidson might be afraid of what winning a Championship at this point could do to his health. He's probably thinking that a nice stress-free flame out in the ECF with a really nice coach would be just what the doctor ordered.

Davidson might be afraid of what winning a Championship at this point could do to his health. He's probably thinking that a nice stress-free flame out in the ECF with a really nice coach would be just what the doctor ordered.

You may have a point. We shoud definitely avoid game sevens.

suprised at what we got? nope... ok suprised they won that fast.... yea

But just because we got what we thought we were going to get in a carpet bagger that left on his own terms... doesn't mean I don't have the right to be upset with him.... I will always be grateful for him for the 04 season and bitter at him for his antics of the 05 season.

Thats exactly the way I feel. Whenever I think the topic has finally been put to rest someone always seems to come up with a post slamming the Pistons for firing him as if LB had no say in the matter. It was as much a firing as a sign and trade is really a trade ( or something like that ).

Thats exactly the way I feel. Whenever I think the topic has finally been put to rest someone always seems to come up with a post slamming the Pistons for firing him as if LB had no say in the matter. It was as much a firing as a sign and trade is really a trade ( or something like that ).

I don't know Max...who was slamming the Pistons for "firing" him? LB was going to leave...that's the nature of a carpetbagger. He did his job...two great seasons and grooming Darko for future stardom.

I don't know Max...who was slamming the Pistons for "firing" him?

LB himself claimed that.

LB himself claimed that.

Well...he is a "lair".

'bills, you are in fine form today!!! :)

I swear, we talk more about LB than Darko. And if someone told me at the end of 2005, that we would talk about LB more in 2008, I would have said they were crazy.

I swear, we talk more about LB than Darko. And if someone told me at the end of 2005, that we would talk about LB more in 2008, I would have said they were crazy.

I can't speak for everyone but maybe we miss LB more than we miss Darko. :kleenex:

Personally, Flip has a certain way of making me miss Larry Brown and the baggage that came along with him.

As for Darko; Rodney Stuckey hasn't really caused me to pine for the HVC yet. I hope he never does!

To be fair...Stuckey has not suffered the blood flow problems that Darko did.

To be fair...Stuckey has not suffered the blood flow problems that Darko did.

I think the Palace camera angles are more flattering to him as well!