Pistons/Magic 2nd Round Game 3 Wed May 7 8PM

tv: TNT

Series moves to Orlando with the Pistons up 2-0.

Pistons can really put Orlando into the corner if they can win that game. Hopefully they are on their "good" game habits and won't have a letdown. It helps that media adds fuel to their fire by saying that they won the game because of the officials gaffe.

By my calculations, the Pistons and Red Wings have won 11 straight playoff games. If the odds of winning each game is 1 in 2, then the odds of this happening is 1 in 2,064 I believe.

The good times can't last forever. I'm fearing fear itself.

I really really really hope they win, and not just because they're the Pistons, but ORL is pissing me off w/ all their whining.

Stan Van Gundy has apparently rubbed off on them (or were they always this intolerable and i never noticed) ?

Beat them by 1, 7, 65, i don't care. We just need to win.

Do not blame orl for whining: I do not want event to think of what could happen here if pistons would be in 0-2 position.

Just do not fool yourself here: instead of orlando (fans) you would do same thing.

Do not blame orl for whining: I do not want event to think of what could happen here if pistons would be in 0-2 position.

Just do not fool yourself here: instead of orlando (fans) you would do same thing.

I'll do it now. Damn your hypothesis! :pound:

These games are irrelevant as long as Detroit advances.

Pistons lose next round and all is for naught. Team should get busted up 6 ways from Sunday.

Flip should be put on the first thing smoking, and it should be rigged to explode the second it is out of city limits just to make sure he doesn't come back.

More Afflalo, Less Rip and Tay. More Amir, less McDyess and Sheed.

Hunter should be forced into retirement tomorrow. Dixon should be dropped off in the woods.

Sheed should be fitted with a shock-tether that goes ape-(crap) whenever he strays too far from the post.

Stuckey needs to shoot more. Chauncey needs to shoot less.

McDyess should have been traded to the Spurs, and after they won the championship his new nickname could have been "SanAntonio McDyess".

Hermanns next stint of PT should be to start a fistfight with round 3's best guy.

More Samb, less Hayes.

More Hayes, less Potpie.

Billups, Amir, Maxiel....36/24/36

that is all. :)

I need a plate of Spaghetti and some garlic breath, to go with all this whine.

Stan Van Gundy has apparently rubbed off on them (or were they always this intolerable and i never noticed) ?

They were probably always like this. There just wasn't any reason to pay attention before.

And Van Gundy... Who wears a short sleeve shirt with a suit anyway? No wonder Riley fired him. He's just sartorially unpleasant.

I'll do it now. Damn your hypothesis! :pound:

...McDyess should have been traded to the Spurs, and after they won the championship his new nickname could have been "SanAntonio McDyess".

Hermanns next stint of PT should be to start a fistfight with round 3's best guy.

More Samb, less Hayes.

More Hayes, less Potpie.

Billups, Amir, Maxiel....36/24/36

that is all. :)



This just might be the most outstanding post in the entire history of sports related forums! :good:

Stan Van Gundy apparently made his point. He complained for two days about how the Pistons were getting away with a lot of extreme physicality. Sure enough, Game 2 was called tighter than any playoff game I've seen this season -- in person or on television. Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess were in foul trouble. McDyess fouled out. Dwight Howard (22 points, 18 rebounds) shot eight free throws and he would have shot a lot more if a) the Magic had the good sense to give him the ball more (11 shots) and b) he didn't turn it over so much (5).


DETNEWS | Weblog | Pistons Blog (http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/pistonsblog/index.cfm)

Even McCoskey noticed.
:hoops:

I'm unsure what to think other than 'split' in Orlando.

No way is our bench going to play half as well on the road as they did @ home. Max has been amazing.

But Orlando is also probably not going to get that many FT attempts and Rip will likely play a hell of a lot better than he did the first 43:00 mins of game 2.

Game 2 was absolutely over early by the early 3rd if Rip is hitting his J's.

I'm unsure what to think other than 'split' in Orlando.

No way is our bench going to play half as well on the road as they did @ home. Max has been amazing.

But Orlando is also probably not going to get that many FT attempts and Rip will likely play a hell of a lot better than he did the first 43:00 mins of game 2.

Game 2 was absolutely over early by the early 3rd if Rip is hitting his J's.
It is difficult to say. If Pistons can step on the Orlando's neck and pull out a W in game 3, then I think it should be over quickly, since Orlando's spirits will be broken. A lot depends on how the contact on Howard will be called.
Also, our bench mainly played a defensive part in the 2nd game. Their offense was just a small part of their performance, so I would expect them not to be any worse playing on the road, as long as they stick to their defensive principles. Don't know if Max can go 5-5 again, but if he's at around 50% shooting, I think Pistons will take it. And he will be active, that's what he does.

I'm unsure what to think other than 'split' in Orlando.

No way is our bench going to play half as well on the road as they did @ home. Max has been amazing.

But Orlando is also probably not going to get that many FT attempts and Rip will likely play a hell of a lot better than he did the first 43:00 mins of game 2.

Game 2 was absolutely over early by the early 3rd if Rip is hitting his J's.

or if orlando only hits 50 percent of there 3's.... rooting for a 50 percent shooting... but if thats all they hit were still up 10 after 3.

i like where were sitting... and i hope orlando talks alot today and tommorrow to help us keep focus.

Nelson and Evans get ten boards between them in game 2 and that gets them running and that gets them threes in rhythm. Take away the boards from the guards and you take away a significant part of their offense. Even if Howard gets them all instead, you will have forced passes in the backcourt and you will have forced the Orlando offense into half court sets that they don't seem to be able to execute worth a darn.

My two cents... :)

Do not blame orl for whining: I do not want event to think of what could happen here if pistons would be in 0-2 position.

Just do not fool yourself here: instead of orlando (fans) you would do same thing.

It's not the general whining. It's the damn whining about the shot clock. If the Pistons were on that side i would be a/talking about that stupid 3 pointer a player took (We all know it would be Sheed or Chaunce), b/ talking about our 60 turnovers c/ wonder why Chauncey is fouling off the damn ball and d/ live by the three, die by the three, and e/ injure myself somehow in frustration (or injure my remote).

I won't be sitting here saying we got robbed b/c of a shot at the end of the third quarter.

I have respect for Howard. He's the one person who was like we lost b/c of turnovers. We had the whole 4th quarter. That play didn't decide the game.

Nelson and Evans get ten boards between them in game 2 and that gets them running and that gets them threes in rhythm. Take away the boards from the guards and you take away a significant part of their offense. Even if Howard gets them all instead, you will have forced passes in the backcourt and you will have forced the Orlando offense into half court sets that they don't seem to be able to execute worth a darn.

My two cents... :)

Good point

About the clock issue.

It is my understanding that the refs strictly followed the rules to make their determination. They didn't have the option to take points off the board and replay the 5 seconds. All they had leeway on was determining how much time should be left on the clock. Their options were anywhere between 0.1 seconds and 5.2 seconds. The more time they chose to leave on the clock, the more it would benefit Orlando. If they thought that the play took 10 seconds, then they would have to leave .1 on the clock, right?

I didn't hear many Orlando fans complaining about this rule before last night. Like most issues, nobody cares until it directly affects them.

Anyone else remember a similar play that happened to the Pistons late this season? I don't remember which game it was, but there was a play where the Pistons were inbounding with about 5 seconds on the shot clock, and somehow the shot clock started about 2 seconds before they got it inbounds. The Pistons were confused and didn't get a shot off in time, and they immediately pointed out to the refs that the clock had malfunctioned. The refs UPHELD THE TURNOVER, which was absurd, but maybe it's the same rule. Obviously the rule should change; they should have put 5 seconds back on the shot clock in that case, and last night, they should have just given the Pistons the ball out of bounds again with 5.1 sec back on the clock.

Anyone else remember a similar play that happened to the Pistons late this season? I don't remember which game it was, but there was a play where the Pistons were inbounding with about 5 seconds on the shot clock, and somehow the shot clock started about 2 seconds before they got it inbounds. The Pistons were confused and didn't get a shot off in time, and they immediately pointed out to the refs that the clock had malfunctioned. The refs UPHELD THE TURNOVER, which was absurd, but maybe it's the same rule. Obviously the rule should change; they should have put 5 seconds back on the shot clock in that case, and last night, they should have just given the Pistons the ball out of bounds again with 5.1 sec back on the clock.

I do remember that play. It sucked for us. The extreme example would be if the play clock started before the ball was inbounded and the buzzer actually went off before the ball was put in play. It would be ludicrous to let that play stand.

The NBA should probably visit this issue in the off season and come up with a fair solution. It is a difficult problem to solve, because there are so many what-have-yous.

Orlando got to see our play. What would have happened if they would have stolen the ball and made a shot themselves? Maybe if the clock would have been working properly, the Pistons would have shot the ball more quickly. Etc, etc.

If the clock starts too early, it is even more problematic. Players will freak out and shoot the ball wildly as they will be surprised when they glance at the clock.

It's giving me a headache thinking about this.

I think the only fair solution is a do-over. Reset the clock to what it was before the ball was inbounded.

I think the only fair solution is a do-over. Reset the clock to what it was before the ball was inbounded.

Imigine if they worked the clock like soccer. Never stop it and then add on an arbitrary amount of time to make up for all the pauses. Bavetta would be responsible for blowing the final whistle.

Imigine if they worked the clock like soccer. Never stop it and then add on an arbitrary amount of time to make up for all the pauses. Bavetta would be responsible for blowing the final whistle.
He'd have to hide like soccer refs do.
:pound:

I think the only fair solution is a do-over. Reset the clock to what it was before the ball was inbounded.

Yeah, the refs shoulda caught the clock problem well before Chauncey even got the ball from Stuckey. Stop the play before the outcome and give everyone a mulligan.

I guess this will give something for Stern and the rules committee to talk about this summer besides rigging games in favor of large-market teams and superstar players. :rolleyes:

"Irregardless" though, the Pistons won the game by a wider margin than the 3 points that resulted from the play so it's pretty much a moot point.

ummmmm, uhhhh, ...right???

"Irregardless" though, the Pistons won the game by a wider margin than the 3 points that resulted from the play so it's pretty much a moot point.

ummmmm, uhhhh, ...right???
http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/703-what-happened-darko-2.html#post9459

:)

You know what was really lucky for us? That Dwight Howard barely missed the timing on that final rebound that he could have jammed.

Yeah, the refs shoulda caught the clock problem well before Chauncey even got the ball from Stuckey. Stop the play before the outcome and give everyone a mulligan.
Was this any more egregious than a bad foul call?

I think if Chauncey misses, it's not even discussed again. By making the shot, Billups has likely changed the NBA rule book.

I guess this will give something for Stern and the rules committee to talk about this summer besides rigging games in favor of large-market teams and superstar players. :rolleyes:
Also their Pistons DNA re-sequencing program!

"Irregardless" though, the Pistons won the game by a wider margin than the 3 points that resulted from the play so it's pretty much a moot point.

ummmmm, uhhhh, ...right???
I'll never be able to decide, if the other team wins the tip at the beginning of the game, will it change the outcome?

The national media needs to get the story right too... they are saying the home time keeper messed up.... no the neutral city time keeper messed up.... and I am pretty sure its human error....

The clock started... then stopped, and notice that when the clock should have stopped on the basket made the clock actually started... not sure if its a button or a switch that the time keeper flips... but looks like he hit/flipped it twice when he went to start the clock.

If there going to start complaining about this as long as they have then they should start to look at every single foul call from the beginning of the game, and lets look at those.... IF it had been at the end of quarter 4 that this happened then yes orlando has the right to complain till the cows come home but shesshhh 12 mins to play 3 points won't make a difference...

I was reading a little on the Orlando fan boards. They of course all think they got robbed, more so they think that we have been getting all the calls. Some are even calling the league office and sending e-mails and stuff. Amazing.

Was anyone here thrilled with the calls in the game?

I mean it was the first game in recent history where we had multiple players in serious danger of fouling out of the game. Dyess took a really nice charge and didn't get the call. Theo blocked Dwight's shot at it's apex. Prince got the ultra rare 5-second violation. There were plenty of offensive fouls away from the ball that left everyone confused. And the most obviously poor calls were the no-calls for Rip when Dwight Howard bounced him back in the direction from whence he came.

Was this any more egregious than a bad foul call?

I think if Chauncey misses, it's not even discussed again. By making the shot, Billups has likely changed the NBA rule book.




Spot on.

Hey, what ever happened to the guy (PR fan, or something) who left the forum as soon as Arroyo was traded away? I was kind of hoping he would stop in and talk some stuff. Maybe he's waiting for the Magic to win one?

Does anyone remember a few years back when Orlando & Detroit were both fighting for the last playoff spot? I think maybe around 2000, but not sure. Anyhow, some Orlando player made the comment that "We don't even consider Detroit in the same class as us". Ever since then I haven't liked Orlando. Unfortunately, Orlando did beat the Pistons out for that last spot, but since then they've been far inferior. Anyone remember the comment or the player? He's right though. Not even in the same class...:MusicBigGrin:

DET has had 2 shot clock violations that took baskets away from them this post season when the clock started early.

I hope Flip has some time to get down to the Epcot Center when he's in Orlando. I know he usually likes to take his field trips in the conference finals, but this is too good a chance to pass up.

I 'm happy we got the win and the 3 pointer really came in handy, but since there is no precident for this, the right thing to do would have been to reset the clock back to 5.1 and start over by having the Pistons take the ball out again. I mean just think if this had had happen to the Pistons we would have had 200 post thead on this subject alone, expecially if we had lost by less than three points.

:focus:

The issue is for tomorrows game is to not allow so many wide open three's. Keep them honest inside the arc and continue to force turnovers. = Victory for Pistons

I was reading a little on the Orlando fan boards. They of course all think they got robbed, more so they think that we have been getting all the calls. Some are even calling the league office and sending e-mails and stuff. Amazing.

I saw this. It was stickied on some ORL board. I wonder if it actually has any sort of effect. I've never done anything like that, but i did write an e-mail one time to some DET beat writer to tell him his article was stupid (not in so many words, but i felt like it was a stern letter :)) He actually responded and was all trying to explain his thought process, and then i felt bad LOL.

If Detroit ends up winning the championship, I heard they are going to put an asterisk by their name because of clock gate.:stirthepot:

I hope Flip has some time to get down to the Epcot Center when he's in Orlando. I know he usually likes to take his field trips in the conference finals, but this is too good a chance to pass up.

yeah i can't wait for the flip tan!!

good point about getting hosed on that shot clock violation in the philly series.

If the clock functions correctly tonight, we could be in big trouble.

If the clock functions correctly tonight, we could be in big trouble.

Stan Van Gundy should wear a big Flava Flav type clock on the side line tonight.

I'm not looking for ALL the credit but the Pistons are 5-0 since I went to the Eddie Griffin avatar.

I'm not looking for ALL the credit but the Pistons are 5-0 since I went to the Eddie Griffin avatar.

So far this year they are 6-0 when I wear my Pistons ball cap while I watch the game, and 0-2 when I don't. I'm not one to normally think I have any kind of influence on the outcome of games, but... :sssh:

So far this year they are 6-0 when I wear my Pistons ball cap while I watch the game, and 0-2 when I don't. I'm not one to normally think I have any kind of influence on the outcome of games, but... :sssh:

You better keep wearing it from now on.

The Pistons win 95% of their games when AA plays at least 5 minutes in the first half and a total ... :sssh:

Chat is open!!!
* link removed *

I really liked the fight in these guys.
Looks like Stuck will /must emerge as star.
But if they think they can win the points in the paint and beat Or while Or drains 3s BECAUSE our interior D is so good.....good nite sweet prince !!!

The biggest question right now is 'how long will CB be out?'

Sheed was -30 tonight (edit: in 28 minutes)...sigh

Like I said...all this talk about Orlando being dead was going to be bad...

Then again, C-bill getting hurt didn't help. I'm eager to see how Stuckey does. Any word or ideas on how long Billups will be out?

While missing CB was no doubt huge, the Pistons still managed to get it down to a 3 point game to start the 4th before letting the game slip away (at a really, really fast rate).

Orlando shot very well and seemed to be able to penetrate at will. This game has no doubt given them a lot of confidence going into game 4.

I'm Sheed's biggest fan when he's playing well but sometimes he has the mental wherewithal of a child. He is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. He clearly let some foul calls take him out of his game. His head was NEVER in this one. In the playoffs, that can't happen.

I thought Stuck played OK, but there was almost no contribution from the bench tonight. For all intents and purposes, Stuck was a starter tonight. Max was nonexistent.

Just a poor effort tonight.

How can you say that Zoo?
Or. shot 56%. lights out.
The 9 or 10 man rot. could of kept us in the game...maybe.

Got within 3, but couldn't get closer. Eh, figured them for a win tonight. In fact, They might tie up the series like Chicago last year and then we moved on.

A couple of positives to take away from tonight: Stuckey looked good replacing CB, he is the real deal, and will be the franchise pg someday; and Hermann, as spastic as he looks, can play some D. Hopefully we keep him, because he looks like a solid guy off the bench.

BTW, Evans looked worse than I remembered he looked as a Piston. What the heck is any coach, not just Flip, thinking by playing him?

How can you say that Zoo?
Or. shot 56%. lights out.
The 9 or 10 man rot. could of kept us in the game...maybe.

Yeah, Orlando did shoot well. I wasn't calling it a poor collective effort. Tay and Rip came to play. Thought Stuck was OK, but Sheed was lousy and Max was lousy.

Our guys had to know they weren't going to get the calls...and prepare for it.
Hands off.

Our guys had to know they weren't going to get the calls...and prepare for it.
Hands off.

I think Orlando was actually whistled for more fouls than Detroit tonight. It was like you said before, Orlando's shooting was the difference. They got what they wanted when they wanted it.

I'm glad i missed this game. 38 pts in the 4th?! Jesus Christ. Seriously Jesus Christ.

How bad is the Chauncey injury? ::fingers crossed::

<p>People have different opinions about our coach, Flip Saunders. If you think he can coach, good for you. Sorry, but not me.</p>


<p>We came out doing nothing right at all to start the game. This was before Billups got injured. Billups had the one layup before he went down with the hamstring pull, and that was the only bucket we had. Things did not get worse after he came out. They were already bad. Very bad. And they stayed bad.</p>


<p>What did Flip do as Orlando scored 34 on us in the 3rd quarter of the last game? Nothing. What did he do in this first quarter? Nothing. He refuses to sit anyone. This is bad. Probably no other coach in the league would do absolutely nothing as his team just stinks out there.</p>


<p>Reading people's comments about the game, and no, I have not read that many, would lead one to believe that nobody was paying much attention to the game.</p>


<p>Maxiell had a bad game? Really? One, he is guarding Howard. That is a load in and of itself. And not a bad job of it either. We got back into the game in the 3rd quarter, with Maxiell in there, playing some fine D. Back to the coaching. As things went bad in the 4th, Flip made no changes. Jason Maxiell did not come back into the game. Instead, Flip played his usual, a group that could not match up defensively with Orlando. We kept Theo and Sheed out there the entire quarter pretty much. No adjustment. Nothing.</p>


<p>Some people think Stuckey had a bad game? Again, look who led us right back into the game in that 3rd quarter. Stuckey did. Stuckey kept getting to the line. He put Nelson in foul trouble. He even hit some outside jumpers. But who says if a guy is hot he don't get a breather? Flip saw fit to play Stuckey the whole 2nd half without a break. Even though things were going real bad, Flip would not change a thing. Frozen in time. Absent.</p>


<p>From 18 down, we got back to within 3 points. But Flip made no substitutions to start the 4th quarter. Again, deciding to do nothing. He can't make a change in the 1st quarter. He can't sub when the guys are doing good in the 3rd quarter. What do both situations have in common? Flip froze.</p>


<p>11 guys played in this one. Hayes even played. And that was not pretty. Herrmann got to play quite a bit. Too slow. He can never make it to his spot for defensive rotation. He hurts us being out there. As far as I can tell, Flip would dress anyone in the stands before he would put Amir into the game. Amir, the guy who can get to his spot on defensive rotations. This is getting pretty rediculous, not having Amir out there.</p>


<p>Let me spell it out for Flip. Play to defend Orlando. If Orlando only has one big, only play one big. Note, since JMAX is quick enough to play small forwards quite well, no, he does not really count as a big. That would be your big slow guys like Sheed, (who thinks just a bit too much of himself if he really thinks he can guard Lewis)Dyess, and Theo. You only get to play one of these guys at a time. Anymore is plain stupid. Quit doing it.</p>


<p>So, you got Howard covered with the one big you are playing. Next, you got to play someone who can guard Lewis and Turk. Like Afflalo and Prince. Or Amir and Prince. Or Prince and Afflalo. Or JMAX and Prince. Or JMAX and Afflalo. Or JMAX and Amir.Hayes can't guard these guys. Quit playing him. Herrmann is too slow to be an NBA basketball player. Quit playing him. You got four choices, Amir, Afflalo, JMAX, and Prince. Have two of these guys out there. Its pretty simple. You got 4 guys very capable of defending their two small forwards, you know, the guys who are killing us in this series. That leaves you with 3 guys to put on Howard, four counting JMAX. Wow, with all that depth, it would take a moron to get it wrong So quit being quite so dense, get with the program, and match up.</p>


<p>Afflalo played fine defense when he got to play, and things started turning back in our favor while he was in the game. Why Flip then saw fit to forget about him after that point is a complete mystery.</p>


<p>Rip had a so so game. Started out cold. Got hot. Turned the ball over too much.</p>


<p>Tay eventually decided to start scoring.</p>


<p>Sheed settled for too many outside shots. Bad game all around for him. Of course, with his coach putting him in a horrid spot, trying to chase Lewis around, just how much energy could he have left for offense. Pathetic coaching, in my opinion.</p>


<p>Dyess did nothing. Again, same comments. Hey Flip, these guys are not small forwards. Hate to break the news to you.</p>


<p>Thats about it. A coach who does not coach. Why? We did not lose this game because Billups got injured. We lost because we have a coach who can't coach, or simply won't.</p>


<p>Get over your hatred of Dumars Flip. Just because he made you play the young guys this season, including Amir, he is still a very nice guy who does not deserve this kind of treatment from you. Play Amir Johnson. Play Afflalo a lot. Can the excuses. Slaughter Orlando these next two games.</p>

God, that post was depressing Lee. I was going to start in on WTF is up with AA's lack of min if we're getting killed by penetration, and the lack of Amir if we're getting killed by Lewis and penetration, but i figured i'd wait for the actual recaps since i didn't watch. Who knew i didn't even have to? :gun1:

Theo and Sheed almost the entire 4th? Kill me.


As far as I can tell, Flip would dress anyone in the stands before he would put Amir into the game. Amir, the guy who can get to his spot on defensive rotations.


Also this is very likely true.

Get over your hatred of Dumars Flip. Just because he made you play the young guys this season, including Amir, he is still a very nice guy who does not deserve this kind of treatment from you. Play Amir Johnson. Play Afflalo a lot. Can the excuses. Slaughter Orlando these next two games.

This recurring judgment that Flip has some personal vendetta against Dumars is borderline psychotic.

So far this year they are 6-0 when I wear my Pistons ball cap while I watch the game, and 0-2 when I don't. I'm not one to normally think I have any kind of influence on the outcome of games, but... :sssh:

the Pistons were 4-0 when I wore my Pistons Watch in these playoffs. I put it on on this morning hoping to offset any magical demons at Disneyworld and lord and behold Billups goes down:frusty:

I only saw the second qtr and the first five mins of the third at the Las Vegas airport and by the time my plane landed here in Cali it was over. Did not expect it to be a blow out as I thought the boys appeared to have gotten over the missing the captain despite there porous defense. Have not watched the tape or looked at the box score yet, so don't know who who did or didn't but 111 points means that they must have had a field day at the three point line or no one cared to play defense in the 4th qtr.

I don't care how good Stucco, Alf or Hunter/Dixon are, we are not going to win this series without Billups>:yell: Orlando is better than we suspected when the threes are falling...especially of we are leaving them open.

How can you say Maxiell had a good game? ZERO points and 2 rebounds tonight. Also, he got blocked twice by his man, who happened to get 20 points, 12 rebounds, and 6 blocks in total.

Maxiell, Sheed, Ratliff, and McDyess combined for 14 rebounds.

Billups- wasn't looking good, then he gets forced to do the splits
Maxiell- terrible game
Sheed- nightmare game. quick fould trouble. bad shooting. -30.
Ratliff- 0 points, 4 rebounds, 1 block in 20 minutes? Sucky.
Dyess- 0 points, 4 rebounds. Sucky.
Hayes- 0 points, 4 rebounds. I think there is a pattern here.

Prince played well. Rip played OK. Stuckey and Afflalo were good.

You know what? Let's just forget about this one. It looked doomed from the start, we scrapped our way back, and then we ran out of gas and they got hot.

Hopefully Billups is able to be effective on Saturday. Avoid the mood swings.

This recurring judgment that Flip has some personal vendetta against Dumars is borderline psychotic.

No its not bordeline psychotic its someone's opinion.

Whats puzzling and painfull is watching both Theo and even Walter Herman promoted above Amir. I don't know, has it worked? Who played more in the reg season Herman or Amir? Who has shown that he can play D and is capable of giving you some offensive boards and some points in the paint?

Not saying its why we lost, it just does not make any sense.

At least he put Amir in for some G/T.
Sad...Good/hopeful...sad

Notice how well Herrmann guarded Turkaglu in the first half. I thought that was a pretty good adjustment to give Tay some rest. Also, Ratliff was pretty effective last game.

I've never thought it made sense to put in Hayes AND Herrmann though, as Flip did in the 2nd half. And I will always advocate Amir Johnson.

I honestly think that Orlando is a perfect team for Amir to play against. They have some tall 3-point shooters and only 1 big man. Let Amir use his speed and length to play help defense and still be able to close out on Turk or Lewis when they pick off the primary defender.


I know that we've all pointed out Hayes' flaws in the reg season, but did anyone expect him to be THIS ineffective in the playoffs? He's making Mo Evans/ Carlos Delfino look like greener grass right now.

Whats puzzling and painfull is watching both Theo and even Walter Herman promoted above Amir. I don't know, has it worked? Who played more in the reg season Herman or Amir? Who has shown that he can play D and is capable of giving you some offensive boards and some points in the paint?

Not saying its why we lost, it just does not make any sense.

Yes, giving Theo and Hermann all of that playing time in place of Amir made no sense. A few minutes into the fourth, at the very least, Amir should have been brought into the game. Nothing else was working offensively or defensively, but Flip just was unable or unwilling to make any changes.

No its not bordeline psychotic its someone's opinion.



That opinion expressed by Lee is really out there. There is absolutely no factual basis to back up his opinion.

Flip may or may not like Dumars. But to suggest that he would intentionally do something to jeopardize his career and the team out of some petty dislike for his boss is ludicrous. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

I agree with Gazoo. Flip's just a crappy coach (my opinion). It doesn't go any deeper than that.

No its not bordeline psychotic its someone's opinion.

Whats puzzling and painfull is watching both Theo and even Walter Herman promoted above Amir. I don't know, has it worked? Who played more in the reg season Herman or Amir? Who has shown that he can play D and is capable of giving you some offensive boards and some points in the paint?

Not saying its why we lost, it just does not make any sense.

It really is baffling. I mean to the point of just being dumb-founded. While i don't believe Flip is doing it to spite Joe D,

Like you said he got PT this year, was complimented by Flip. His energy, D, and just general awesomeness was even waxed poetic by DET beat writers. The exact problems we were having are the exact things he can fix/help with.

Yet now he can't even get time in front of Hermann. You could say Flip just does not understand the value of defense which is true b/c even with the progress he's made with AA, he still can't seem to correlate stopping penetration with AA and sub accordingly, but in this type of game for Amir to not see any time ?

Amir even talked about matching up with Young. The newspapers talked about it. Flip talked about using our young athlethic players to match Philly's SF's playing PF. Hello, Rashard Lewis.

Max is great, but if Max is not great, there's someone equally (more IMO) great on the bench. This should be our strength having 2 young athletic bigs not a hinderance.

I mean it's reaching Darko levels of frustration at this point to where sometimes i can't watch the game b/c i just don't want to deal with the wacked out rotations and stress myself out.

If there was a reason, "I think he sucks, I'm allergic to him, He killed my dog" anything at this point i'd feel slightly better just knowing.

I love winning these PO games, but i can't help feeling like it's just a ticking time bomb, or a band-aid to cover up the flaws in our rotation.

When push comes to shove, Flip chokes, and then the players' talent overcomes or someone breaks their nose and we get a better line-up by default. I really don't want to see us go down 3-2, and then hear talk well maybe we should try Amir, and i really hope Chauncey's OK. I don't want to hear we lost this series b/c of that and Flip having an excuse, and i don't want to lose this series in general.

Has the PHO game been deleted from Flip's brain TIVO? b/c i'm just out of analysis at this point.

I have been quiet as I didn't want to gripe when we win. But I was not impressed with game 2. No, a team shouldn't be allowed to hit 7 straight 3's any more than Le Bron should have been allowed to go off last year in game 5. They got a bit into our offense in game 2 as well.

This game--no adjustments by the coaches. Orlando was pushing us around even before the Billips injury. And Billips was trying to do too much on that play. If he is out, we are in trouble even for this series. No, I don't feel we can really replace him right now.

No way this Orlando team should be able to score like they are. No way.

Question on all our minds: Is Billips coming back soon and at what capacity if he is?

Second, they have adjusted to us. Can our staff figure the Magic out? They are not chumps anymore. We have to make them play like chumps...

Even if it is the case Flip is ignoring Joe D's wishes regarding playing time for Amir and Afflalo, either in the playoffs as a whole or in this particular game, I agree with Darth that it is not plausible to think that Flip's motive would be "hatred" of Joe. Why not just stubbornness? Or a belief that he knows better?

I have been quiet as I didn't want to gripe when we win. But I was not impressed with game 2. No, a team shouldn't be allowed to hit 7 straight 3's any more than Le Bron should have been allowed to go off last year in game 5. They got a bit into our offense in game 2 as well.

This game--no adjustments by the coaches. Orlando was pushing us around even before the Billips injury. And Billips was trying to do too much on that play. If he is out, we are in trouble even for this series. No, I don't feel we can really replace him right now.

No way this Orlando team should be able to score like they are. No way.

Question on all our minds: Is Billips coming back soon and at what capacity if he is?

Second, they have adjusted to us. Can our staff figure the Magic out? They are not chumps anymore. We have to make them play like chumps...

This is exactly what i was worried about. Ron Jeremy is not an idiot.

Even if it is the case Flip is ignoring Joe D's wishes regarding playing time for Amir and Afflalo, either in the playoffs as a whole or in this particular game, I agree with Darth that it is not plausible to think that Flip's motive would be "hatred" of Joe. Why not just stubbornness? Or a belief that he knows better?

Does it really matter what the reasons are as the results are the same?

This is exactly what i was worried about. Ron Jeremy is not an idiot.

Yep, same story. Matching down to them. Instead of using their 2 SF's against them we are matching down.

I missed the 1st quarter. Did the Billups injury look like an accident or was Nelson trying to trip him up?

Ok I still haven't seen the game yet, but did we have anybody out there on our team that even resembled Kobe?? I mean some body who could slice to the hoop and get the basket or foul??

I did check out out the boxscore and they killed us from the paint 49-26 and beyond the arc 33-6.

Why is it our little guys are attacking Howard and getting blocked, but our bigs aren't attacking and getting him in foul trouble?? It would be eazy to neutralize him if Sheed and Dice would play and shoot around the hoop instead of the turnaround Sheed fade shots or the catch and shoot Dice shots from 15 ft away.

The Magic got off over 24 shots from the 3pt line in games 2 and 3 and hit 11 in each game. Why are we double teaming Howard and leaving Lewis open...by the way who was guarding shard tonight?? Dude hit 5-6 three balls..:yukpuke:

Don't the coaches and players know this teams MO? They will shoot the 3 as long as you leave them open. Turk will come down the floor and jack up a 3 just like CB. The defense has to recognize this and stop daring them to shoot the three. Play them tight and make them take the bad shot.

Also why do we keep going to this one on one back down to the hoop? No one ever helps out and we wind up taking a bad shot as the clock runs down.....remember I didn't see tonights game, but I did watch the Lakers pass the ball around to the open man tonight and hit them. When Prince or Sheed attempt to post up /back down their man to the hoop, the other floor players stop and watch on the other side of the hoop and NEVER come over to the other side to receive what might be a pass and an open look at the hoop.

Somebody tell me what Walter Hermann did tonight?? 1 board and 4 points. Did he play any defense? Probably not if they scored 111 points..... Put Amir in there Flip...Yeah he might get a couple of fouls and get dunked on by Howard, but at the same time he might get 2-3 blocks himself and I guarantee 7 times as many boards as Fabio gets...Flip are you reading this!!

Ok I still haven't seen the game yet, but did we have anybody out tthere on our team that even resembled Kobe?? I mean some body who coild slice to the hoop and get the basket or foul??

I did check out out the boxscore and they killed us from the paint 49-26 and beyond the arc 33-6.

Why is it our little guys are attacking Howard and getting blocked, but our bigs aren't attacking and getting him in foul trouble?? It would be eazy to neutralize him if Sheed and Dice would play and shoot around the hoop instead of the turnaround Sheed fade shots or the catch and shoot Dice shots from 15 ft away.

The Magic got off over 24 shots from the 3pt line in games 2 and 3 and hit 11 in each game. Why are we double teaming Howerd and leaving Lewis open...by the way who was guarding shard tonight?? Dude hit 5-6 three balls..:yukpuke:

Don't the coaches and players know this teams MO? They will shoot the 3 as long as you leave them open. Turk will come down the floor and jack up a 3 just like CB. The defense has to recognize this and stop daring them to shoot the three. Play them tight and make them take the bad shot.

Also why do we keep going to this one on one back down to the hoop? No one ever helps out and we wind up taking a bad shot as the clock runs down.....remember I didn't see tonights game, but I did watch the Lakers pass the ball around to the open man.

Somebody tell me what Walter Hermann did tonignt?? 1 board and 4 points. Did he play any defense? Probably not if they scored 111 points..... Put Amir in there Flip...Yeah he might get a couple of fouls and get dunked on by Howard, but at the same time he might get 2-3 blocks himself and I guarantee 7 times as many boards as Fabio gets...Flip are you reading this!!

We did this in the 1st game and then . . .

Also Max, ppl are saying that Nelson deliberately turned his ankle so he could hook him and pull him down. I've seen the play a few times. His ankle is turned but whether that was intentional or just a result of falling i couldn't tell you.

Does it really matter what the reasons are as the results are the same?

No, it probably does not matter very much. I suppose it might be more difficult for Joe D. to exercise some positive influence over Flip if Flip were moved by hatred rather than mulishness.

Ok I still haven't seen the game yet, but did we have anybody out there on our team that even resembled Kobe?? I mean some body who could slice to the hoop and get the basket or foul??

I did check out out the boxscore and they killed us from the paint 49-26 and beyond the arc 33-6.

Well, Stuck had a few good drives and Rip made some nice short jumpers, though he also forced a few shots and hogged the ball too much on four or five possessions. Through the first three, I thought Stuck had a very nice game.

We started out badly and fell behind (I believe) 12 to 2 very early, and were behind 54-42 at the half. But then we went on a very nice run in the third quarter, closed the gap to three late in the third, and were only behind by four at the end of that period. So at the end of the third, I thought the Pistons were still in the game and would have some momentum to start the fourth. But Orlando opened the fourth with a big run, and I think we went the first three or four minutes of the fourth without hitting a single basket.

Orlando put on a real offensive show in the fourth, and they were scoring from all over the court. We were not guarding the Magic's three-point shooters as closely as we should have in that quarter, but on the other hand I don't recall many of their threes being wide-open. Dooling was very effective for Orlando in the second half, and that was a factor for Orlando too.

Lee, I'd like to see your proofs for "vendetta" - do you know how much is media ready to pay for such story?

Whatever, if some of you think here that Amir is a world saver, and can cover many holes at the same time, then be aware that even DPOY Garnett is not able for that. Most of their treys werr contested and if your bigs(dice, maxi, sheed ) are quiet, you have to make your jumpshots. Plain and simple.

Only "adjustment" was needed for that game: very good shooting night.

Lee, I'd like to see your proofs for "vendetta" - do you know how much is media ready to pay for such story?

Whatever, if some of you think here that Amir is a world saver, and can cover many holes at the same time, then be aware that even DPOY Garnett is not able for that. Most of their treys werr contested and if your bigs(dice, maxi, sheed ) are quiet, you have to make your jumpshots. Plain and simple.

Only "adjustment" was needed for that game: very good shooting night.

No one thinks Amir is a world saver. All ppl want is for him to get a chance at guarding Lewis or making an impact, but he'd have to play for those things to happen.

No one thinks Amir is a world saver. All ppl want is for him to get a chance at guarding Lewis or making an impact, but he'd have to play for those things to happen.
I absolutely do not care who played or who not. All what counts is who won and who lost.

Whining who didn't get playing time in a lost cause ( ok, they still tried to win) is a very minor issue, at least in my opinion.

Our bench can play well against of lottery teams at the end of the season, where intensity level is already low, and even then everything has work for them.

Starters didn't get it done and as long as davidson refuses to pay lux tax, our bench is filled with veteran minimum or rookie contracts.

I do not mind of Amir playing but there are more serious issues now.

A winnable game that was lost when they started doing nothing but forcing into Rip, Tay, and Sheed in iso's to start the 4th. Rip and Tayshaun were good on those at times, but when they unravel it happens fast, and Flip has to notice it. It starts with a turnover, and ends with forced shots and more turnovers. Orlando has no one who can stop Rodney from getting into the paint, yet it was always the last option.

I also think Flip needed to give Afflalo a few more minutes in the 2nd half early on. Hiss perimeter D is absolutely critical on a team that seems to constantly have mental lapses.

One more thing I will reiterate, that I have already said in the past. The mis-match at PF is not in our favor. It's time to start thinking about giving more minutes to guys like Walter or Amir, who feel a little bit more comfortable on the perimeter defensively. Guys like Dice and Ratliff are terrible at challenging Turkoglo and Rashard's 3-point shots.

Starting with the second most important thing first (perhaps) Rip, Tayshaun and Rasheed need to lose this little "club" mentality where they dominate the ball in between them and act like the other guys are supposed to be invisible out there.

Seriously, after the Magic jumped up on us by double digits I spent the rest of the game counting passes before shots, and toward the end I was pretty ticked off at the starters.

If this "mannequin offense" is what Flip is so famous for, somebody fetch me a bucket and about 10 feet of rope. I'm not even going to delude myself into thinking a championship will come out of that kind of ball movement (or lack thereof).

First and foremost this team played craptastic defense. And you know what? I happen to think that if you reward the guys like Afflalo and Maxey by passing them the ball every so often, perhaps they are content to cover your lousy perimeter defending butts when you let your guy penetrate at will.

Perhaps if the Magic truly believed that the Pistons would do something other than play two man basketball (3 tops) while the other guys stand perfectly still....
perhaps then some shots are less contested resulting in a made basket.. and you have time to actually set your defense on the other end.


Rip is a ballhog. He calls his own number like he's Kobe. He kills our rhythm every time he's allowed free reign.

And Tayshaun Prince.

Will he ever pass the ball to a teammate that is posting up?

Of course he'll pass it to Sheed, because Sheed will beat him down, but anybody else.....Tayshaun pulls the "I can't pass it to you...come set a screen for me so I can run more clock and throw up some junk....oh yea...I might throw the ball to you with three seconds to go..thanks."

Two great big continuity killers right there. And they were flying their selfish flags full mast for this little gem of a blowout.

Please someone get rid of this sorry excuse for a coach so we can get a guy in here that isn't afraid to put the bench to the behinds of these guys when they quit playing the right way.

No boards no rings. Nelson and Evans again combine for 10, and second game in a row Nelson is the second leading rebounder on the team. Pistons' guards must box out or you allow a very limited offensive team to play to its strengths.

Shooting better than 31% in the second and fourth would help a lot too.

If Rip and Tay can stay in the offense with Stuckey running the point then losing Billups for a bit won't be the end of the world. So far though, they haven't shown any inclination to let him run the team, and the sets get one dimensional really quickly with Tay or Rip at the helm.

Rip is a ballhog. He calls his own number like he's Kobe. He kills our rhythm every time he's allowed free reign.


I wasn't counting but I have one play in mind where Rip shot and missed a contested jumper...while 5 feet behind him Stuckey was wide open calling for the ball. It happens too much.

I didn't see it mentioned, skimming through the last couple pages, but what about Flip's decision to only have 2 PGs active?

Boy was that dumb. You get Amir, who can only play the 4, as the 6th big, when you only have 2PGs?

Foolish.

I was so mad about that, I was going to call the postgame radio show, then decided against getting even more worked up.

If Billups is ok, we win that game last night. Let's hope CB can come back healthy real fast. What's the recovery time on a mild or badly strained hamstring?

If Billups is ok, we win that game last night. Let's hope CB can come back healthy real fast. What's the recovery time on a mild or badly strained hamstring?

Well, arguably, it kept the Lakers from being able to be competitive in their title defense back in '89...:stirthepot: ...so we could be screwed.

Hamstring injuries can take forever to heal.

BTW, Evans looked worse than I remembered he looked as a Piston. What the heck is any coach, not just Flip, thinking by playing him?

I was thinking the same thing except about Arvis. He is just Brutal.

Seriously though....with Billups you cant tell. He doesn't handle lower body injuries very well.

To name a few, he had that ankle injury against Philly in 2003 that carried over into the New Jersey series and led to one heck of a systematic embarrassment that included Joe and Co. strutting with pride regardless of the on court pasting because.... we were gonna draft Darko...:cold:


Last year there was the calf strain that was originally projected at a week and ended up lasting for 20 days...

After that he had a thigh/groin injury that lingered on from mid-march all the way in to the playoffs.

So no...I can't say I expect him to be right for the remainder of the year based on his history.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic folks.

No its not bordeline psychotic its someone's opinion.

Absolutely right, Max, and I was expressing mine.

I just have one thing to say:

Flip, does it really look like a good match up when Sheed or Dice is guarding Shard at the three point line?

That is a match up a good coach would consistently pick and roll until he got the switch; and you are matching up that way???? That is like Tay on a small guard; can you say MISMATCH????

Play Amir and AA on Shard and Turkeyglue in relief!!!!!

Sometimes the coaching on this team is just horrific. And why the he!! aren't Porter and Cowens jumping up and down to get Flip to make the change?????

Sometimes the coaching on this team is just horrific. And why the he!! aren't Porter and Cowens jumping up and down to get Flip to make the change?????


Because it's Terry Porter and Dave Cowens.

Those guys are just as mediocre as Flip. Why should we expect greatness out of them?

Because it's Terry Porter and Dave Cowens.

Those guys are just as mediocre as Flip. Why should we expect greatness out of them?

Guess I was just thinking that at some point and time that with 3 sets of eyes watching that display; one of them would realize that it is a BAD IDEA and suggest a change?

I was thinking the same thing except about Arvis. He is just Brutal.

Need somebody to take a questionable 3 and nearly make it?

We've got your man.

Etroit Pistons Arvis Hayes.




Sit Mr Big for game 4 in a hyperbaric chamber, Go home 2-2, best of 3 with 2 @ home.

Now to fully utilize our maybe 20% chance of winning game 4.

Go smaller for game 4 and run your asses off, you aren't going to coldly out execute a team down the stretch without C$. Sheed can handle Howard. Just don't foul him early, sit Sheed at the end of the first and let him do his thing with 1 or 0 fouls the whole 2nd 5/8ths of the game.

5-Sheed/Dyess/Theo (6 mins max)
4 - Tay/Max/Fabio/Amir
3 - Rip/Tay/Afflalo
2 - Rip/Afflalo/Stuckey
1 - Stuckey/Hunter


Run, Run, Run. Stuckey/Afflalo/Tay/Rip/Amir GO GO GO. Rip can handle Lewis/Turkey for stretches, and as a bonus will run them ragged on D.

Post up Tay or Sheed EVERY TIME in a half court set, send Stuckey through as a cutter, and a shooter replace him, you really have no other options.


Every time you heard an announcer last night say "Flip feels he can play Prince this many minutes because he (sat so much at the end of the season)...

Did you want to

a) vomit in your mouth

b) kick Flip

c) finish the sentence with, Because he wants him to be completely spent in the finals and conference finals just like 05', 06', 07'

Need somebody to take a questionable 3 and nearly make it?

We've got your man.

Etroit Pistons Arvis Hayes.

Can't think of any reason he should be in uniform the rest of this post season.

Can't think of any reason he should be in uniform the rest of this post season.

especially as Dixon seems to shoot just as streaky well, and can bring the ball up and isn't going to be blown by or posted up by any of Orlando's pedestrian G's.

Flip, does it really look like a good match up when Sheed or Dice is guarding Shard at the three point line?


That match up is OK with me as long as Shard has to guard Sheed in the post on our side of the court. Unfortunately, I never saw that part of it.

That match up is OK with me as long as Shard has to guard Sheed in the post on our side of the court. Unfortunately, I never saw that part of it.

True that. Don't understand why Sheed is in foul trouble since Game 2 and Lewis is not when Sheed is 'matchup' on him on offense. Draw fouls on him like how they draw fouls on you, Sheed!

CB should not play game 4. Let him heal if we wanna go deep into the playoffs. Not the time to panic yet. We can still win Game 4 with Stuck as our starting PG. Have Tay run the point if necessary. Dress Dixon or Hunter since CB is out. Dress and play Amir for heaven's sake. Let Amir take on Lewis or Turk when he's in there. Just try him for at least 5 minutes. Hayes should be in street clothes.

Can't think of any reason he should be in uniform the rest of this post season.
Amir can't play the 3. He has no range (yes, I know about the 18 point game against Milwaukee a couple seasons ago), and he's way underdeveloped as a perimeter defender.

Hayes should be the 3rd SF, exactly as he is. Unfortunately, Flip still finds a way to play him. Jarvis has brought NOTHING.

As far as CB, I don't think it is a matter of resting him. He might be done for the playoffs. Playing him in Game 4 may not be a decision that the Pistons even have to make.

Amir can't play the 3. He has no range (yes, I know about the 18 point game against Milwaukee a couple seasons ago), and he's way underdeveloped as a perimeter defender.

Hayes should be the 3rd SF, exactly as he is. Unfortunately, Flip still finds a way to play him. Jarvis has brought NOTHING.

As far as CB, I don't think it is a matter of resting him. He might be done for the playoffs. Playing him in Game 4 may not be a decision that the Pistons even have to make.

So let Amir play the 4. Orlando plays two guys that are really 3's anyways. I think AJ's length will help him against Shard or Turkeyglue. Give him a shot. If it looks worse then Sheed flailing his arms trying not to trip over himself on a jab step while Shard drains another three; change it back. :)

The problem with Sheed matching up with Shard is we trade 2 for 3 and lose a point every time down. Then Sheed starts jacking threes to match him and it's game over. With Howard in the post; we have shyed away from going down there instead of forcing the issue and trying to draw fouls on him.

sometimes you guys kill me with being over-dramatic. let me get this out of the way - we had won 5 straight games, this is the postseason, teams are harder to play at home, orlando was bound to get all the calls after that clock scandal, we were without our all-star PG for nearly the entire game, we were due for a flat game, and we suck on wednesdays. seriously, i think some of you wouldn't be happy unless we went 16-0 in the playoffs. at least we took care of home and we're still up 2-1...if we can snag game 4 this series is over on tuesday at the palace.

let's face it, sheed sucked today. i'm sure flip didn't tell him to settle for poorly-angled turnaround bank shots near the 3-point line. and hey, i love max, but he sucked too. now do i wonder why he didn't really play much in the 2nd half? yeah, definitely...he could've at least checked rashard to start the 4th, but hindsight...yeah. and it was completely predictable that rip would have 6 turnovers...his shot was on when he wasn't trying to create for himself, which is why it sucks that he rarely realizes this.

stuck continues to be terrible at finishing layups, but he played an excellent game last night. he shot well and drew a lot of fouls while going 9-9 from the line. as soon as he learns to finish in the lane in traffic he is going to be lethal. and hey, like i said before put amir in to guard turk/lewis, but hermann didn't do that poorly. we wouldn't have won the game if amir played, and i can only imagine if he got switched onto howard how badly that would've gone.

i'll give orlando credit - they attacked early knowing they'd get the whistle. they made a lot of contested shots in the 4th quarter (and they were pretty well contested...c'mon that mo evans turn around J at the end of the shot clock? luck). they continuously ran that high pick-and-roll where howard illegally screens at the 3-point line and then shifts down low while taking out both of our defenders and it's never called, but hey if they don't call it keep doing it.

i give our guys credit for fighting back and pulling within 3, but too little too late. you can't get in a hole like that on the road and be down 10-12 all game and expect to win. let's look at the positives - stuckey got a LOT of playoff experience in a game that was a total throwaway. you saw his confidence grow as he started to post up nelson, and as he adjusted for howard's shot-blocking and shot over him. we were pretty much destined to lose once chauncey went out, so at least we got something out of it.

and yeah, maybe flip didn't do the best coaching job (how about an early timeout??), but i thought he was excellent in games 1 and 2 and has generally done a good job adjusting game-by-game in the playoffs so i'm not going to come down on him. he's already knocked jarvis out of the rotation and put afflalo back in, he's starting maxiell over dice, and he's trusting stuckey to get it done. to me that's pretty good so far.

i'll give orlando credit - they attacked early knowing they'd get the whistle. they made a lot of contested shots in the 4th quarter (and they were pretty well contested...c'mon that mo evans turn around J at the end of the shot clock? luck). they continuously ran that high pick-and-roll where howard illegally screens at the 3-point line and then shifts down low while taking out both of our defenders and it's never called, but hey if they don't call it keep doing it.


I thought all VanGundy's lobbying would work against them but I guess the refs are about as dumb as they look.

GOOD JOB, hOGG
usually a day off and a stiff drink calms everybody down....

We lost:

1. Billups didnt play in a key road game
2. We cant 'depend' on Sheed to MAN UP( I love to see him gone, but he's so dam good when he's good)
3. Flip should have called timeout after the M's first 5 pt run in the start of the 4th
4. We were not going to sweep.

Hey guys, this was just one loss, on the road, without our starting PG for the most part...

For me it would have been easier to swallow if they didn't scratch and claw their way back to within 4 to start the 4th quarter, only to go into an immediate double-digit hole. Oh well...

I thought Rip forced way too many shots as well, but Tayshaun had a great game. Who cares if he doesn't feed the post to anybody other than Sheed? He's shooting great these playoffs and seems to consistently get himself a good look.

What seemed strange to me was at one point in the game we had Ratliff, Herrmann and Hayes on the floor at the same time. I don't see how that was going to help us put points on the board. Ratliff absolutely will not look to shoot (so the D can cheat off of him), and it seemed that after Howard completely stuffed Herrmann's weak finger roll he wouldn't shoot again.

Speaking of Howard, he completely altered more shots than the 6 he blocked last night. I remember one play where a guard (Hamilton or Stuckey) drove in, dished to an open McDyess (I think) who was in great position under the basket, but who then dished again out of the paint rather than risk being blocked. Go up strong with both hands and force the issue, please!

Not to throw fuel on the Amir fire, but didn't he give up an open 3 to Rashard Lewis on the first defensive possession after he checked in? I get excited to see him come in, too, but IMO he's not ready for the playoffs this year.

Amir did get a three thrown in his face but it was his first possession in. I would like to think that it might be possible for AJ to at least alter a few shots if he got a chance to get in? It would have to be better then the Lay up line that Turkeyglue is running?

I was kind of proud of the fellas last night. They fought hard. Orlando was getting a lot of calls. It is when the fouls are called rather then the total calls.

I thought Herrrrrrman played well. The trio of he, AA and Stuckey looked good together. It would have been nice if this wasn't the first time they had played together with more than 45 seconds remaining in a game. It was pretty evident that they had no idea what each other were going to do. I think something should be done about this. The league should make the season longer so a coach has a chance to tinker with line-ups etc.

Unfortunately, this game was a reminder that DET is not greater than the sum of their parts. When Billups went down, it wasn't a problem. They simply went small did nothing and kept chugging.

What is the point of stocking your roster with combo guards when you only allow them to play one position? Anyone else remember Dixon coming onboard and Flip saying over and over that he is a 2 not a PG after playing well at the point in LA? Anyone think that is detrimental to the team when they get in this situation rather than playing guys in different spots and seeing what works?

If Billups doesn't play G4, it might be time to beef up the servers for this site. I am guessing that Amir will not dress if that is the case. Amir would not help guarding out on the perimeter. Wasn't AA lauded in the papers for his D on Lewis in the regular season?

Stuckey is going to get someone killed in the stands if he keeps driving to the hoop.

Take my word, Billups is not going to play next game, not even game 5 either. A strained hamstring takes time to heal... of course it depends on the size of the injury after the overstretch. I think that, at least, he is going to be out 5 days from now on... it could be as worse as 40 days out. What a good timing.

I thought the basketball players were able to do that. I mean, its really useful to know that kind of stretching. I guess I was wrong =/.

Talking about the game... it seemed that when we play the right way, we're just 4 points down to Orlando's starters without our main guy. I liked Herrmann (he's still playing with a practice rhythm, a slow pace). And we need Rasheed to step up, for gods sake.

Well, arguably, it kept the Lakers from being able to be competitive in their title defense back in '89...:stirthepot: ...so we could be screwed.

Yup. This is from a 1989 article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE5DC123BF932A25755C0A96F9482 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all) in the New York Times:

Johnson, whose hamstrings were recently hailed as the most valuable in the N.B.A., pulled the one in his left thigh, as he had several weeks ago. Scott, a 19-point scorer during the season, had partly torn his left hamstring during a rebound drill. Each's availability will be determined shortly before today's third game. But even if in uniform, neither is likely to perform anywhere near his best.

At their best, Magic and Lord Byron form the N.B.A.'s best backcourt. Without them, or even without them at their best, the Lakers will be lucky to prevent the Pistons from sweeping the title round. Unless some of the Pistons' hamstrings snap.

Here's the fun part:

''They can walk or run but they can't make quick moves,'' Reese said. ''And you can't see it in an X-ray. The first three or four days it might not seem too bad, but then it gets worse. It depends on the degree. Some last three to five days, some 10 to 14 days, some three to six weeks. If you can feel a hole in the thigh or if there's a lot of swelling, that's long term.''

From what we've seen so far, it looks like Chauncey's injury may not as bad as what these guys had. :fingerscr

According to WDFN; Kander says he can have him ready for game 4.

According to WDFN; Kander says he can have him ready for game 4.

Can ≠ should

Can ≠ should

I agree. Leave him in a suit until we get back to Detroit. Give Arnie the time and let him come back when the team comes back to the D. Use him sparingly in that game if possible.

Give Stuckey the green flag to run and to drive the lane. I think he needs to know from the coach that breaking down the D and drawing fouls is as good as points.

I agree. Leave him in a suit until we get back to Detroit. Give Arnie the time and let him come back when the team comes back to the D. Use him sparingly in that game if possible.

Give Stuckey the green flag to run and to drive the lane. I think he needs to know from the coach that breaking down the D and drawing fouls is as good as points.

I concur, send his ass home today and put him on oxygen.

Stuckey Gone Wild.

I agree Chauncey should rest the next game, no matter how "ready" he is to play.

Strain is better than a tear, right?

I absolutely do not care who played or who not. All what counts is who won and who lost.

You should care because in order to achieve the winning part, it DOES matter who plays.

Starters didn't get it done and as long as davidson refuses to pay lux tax, our bench is filled with veteran minimum or rookie


Our bench is fine. Our rotations suck. Even our rotations of the starters suck. There's no accountabilty for getting the best possible shot or passing to the open man either/

Starting with the second most important thing first (perhaps) Rip, Tayshaun and Rasheed need to lose this little "club" mentality where they dominate the ball in between them and act like the other guys are supposed to be invisible out there.

Seriously, after the Magic jumped up on us by double digits I spent the rest of the game counting passes before shots, and toward the end I was pretty ticked off at the starters.

If this "mannequin offense" is what Flip is so famous for, somebody fetch me a bucket and about 10 feet of rope. I'm not even going to delude myself into thinking a championship will come out of that kind of ball movement (or lack thereof).

First and foremost this team played craptastic defense. And you know what? I happen to think that if you reward the guys like Afflalo and Maxey by passing them the ball every so often, perhaps they are content to cover your lousy perimeter defending butts when you let your guy penetrate at will.

Perhaps if the Magic truly believed that the Pistons would do something other than play two man basketball (3 tops) while the other guys stand perfectly still....
perhaps then some shots are less contested resulting in a made basket.. and you have time to actually set your defense on the other end.


This is the main problem with our offense. The defense knows exactly who to key in on, and we never punish them for overplaying b/c we don't pass 3/4 of the time anyway.

When Rip is on the floor with the bench he thinks he has to do it on his own. It is terrible. It can't be that he doesn't have confidence in them because he has seen what they can do. Watching him plow into the middle of the lane and flop around like a fish out of water while the rest of the team waits for the pass is killing me. He is not Kobe or Bron and the sooner he realizes he needs his teammates as much they need him; the sooner we can move on to our next victim.

It is not rocket science. Move the ball until you get an open, high percentage shot. Tay and Rip backing their man into the paint is NOT moving the ball!!!!

:nerd2:

ASB talked to Kander today (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/05/pistons_optimistic_billups_wil.html):

"I've seen about 2,000 hamstrings," said Arnie Kander, Detroit's strength and conditioning coach. "I look at this as being nothing more than what we've seen in the past. Because of the slowness of the movement; because of the nature of what occurred, him being able to pull out of it and the fact that he feels this morning the same as he did last night ... that's a great sign. Usually the next morning, you feel worse."

I thought Tay was doing a pretty good job with those isolations yesterday. We ran the play about 5 times straight at one point. The shots looked tough, but he was making them.

Also, Turkoglu was 1-7 in the 2nd quarter and only had 1 rebound with Herrmann guarding him.

Until garbage time, Herrmann was +1.

i agree, i don't mind tay posting up constantly - he either gets a high percentage shot or draws an extra defender and hits one of our guys for an open look

I thought Tay was doing a pretty good job with those isolations yesterday. We ran the play about 5 times straight at one point. The shots looked tough, but he was making them.

Also, Turkoglu was 1-7 in the 2nd quarter and only had 1 rebound with Herrmann guarding him.


So who did he go off on then? Tay?

We need Billips back, period.

In the meantime:

They started to jam our offense up as far back as game 2. As usual, there does not seem to be an adjustment. We couldn't score at key times in game 3. They only have one big. There should be plenty of room on the floor to get open looks or drive.

Yes, we may as well turn Stuckey loose. But I have seen him blocked at least a few times in this series down low. At this stage of this career, he is not a star. He will have to learn quickly.

The defense has been atrocious since the second half of game 2. They are doing what they want. Howard is not that developed offensively. Certainly not enough to let them have open threes. To win without Billips, we will have to attack their offense with a defensive force. Sheed should get more time on Howard. Their guards need to be challenged, especially by the second unit. I mean scout this team. Jameer usually goes right. Hedo loves to go left. We will only prevail if we can step up and shut them down.

So who did he go off on then? Tay?

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - DET @ ORL (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20080507&game=DETORL)

See if you can tell. I'm guessing Tay, but what stands out to me is Rashard abusing Hayes... and everyone else.


One thing that I am noticing is that most of their 3-point attempts are not coming from us double teaming Howard or their guards driving and dishing. It seems to me that most of it is off of chaos (semi fast breaks, offensive rebounds, etc.) and just plain pick setting on the perimeter.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - DET @ ORL (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20080507&game=DETORL)

See if you can tell. I'm guessing Tay, but what stands out to me is Rashard abusing Hayes... and everyone else.


One thing that I am noticing is that most of their 3-point attempts are not coming from us double teaming Howard or their guards driving and dishing. It seems to me that most of it is off of chaos (semi fast breaks, offensive rebounds, etc.) and just plain pick setting on the perimeter.

Agreed, many of orlando treys were not "settled": fastbreak situation, etc 3pt atttempts are always gambling: they did not hit them in 3rd Q and pistons rallied, but luck changed in 4th Q

The only wat to control such playing style is to make high % shots or control offensive rebouns.

On the Stony and Wojo show, Flip was interviewed and said that they would make a decision one hour before game time Saturday to either play Billups or not and thay have to advise NBA officials one hour before game time who will be dressing and who is inactive.

My gut feeling is to let him sit until Tuesday's game so that he is 80% instead of playing at 60%. If he stretches or injures it more then he is gone for the series and the Pistons chances of getting swept in the next round is a real possibilty if they make it there. Yes I remember Magic's hammy tear in 1989 when the undefeated lakers became the first and only team to sweep into the finals and then get swept out by the Pistons.

We might be able to hold on to beat the Magic in 7, but I am not sure we can beat those other two beasts of the east without the CaptainBillups. If Flip wants to take a chance a dress CB then that means someone else either Jarvis, AJ or Fabio has to put on the 3 piece and sit behind the bench with Samb.... Hunter or Dixon will have to be activated and I would go with dixie cup...

Isn't the active/ inactive roster set for this series? I thought that was the rule change.

We can't dress Dixon or Hunter, right?

Isn't the active/ inactive roster set for this series? I thought that was the rule change.

We can't dress Dixon or Hunter, right?

No, that was a couple of years ago. Just for one season. Last year and now this year, its just like the regular season. You tell the refs who is going to be active one hour before each game. It can be a different set of 12 guys each game.

The rule change is that it works the same in the playoffs as in the regular season. You pick 12 of your 15 guys to be active before each game, and you can change which 12 you use from game to game.

Last year, the rule was that you pick who gets to be on the roster for the post season. Once you decide, it is final.

I thought this year would be on a series by series basis and that was the change. I'm glad that I was wrong.

It pains me to say it, but put Hayes and Amir in suits and bring in Hunter and Dixon. I'm assuming that even if CB is available, we shouldn't play him much. Amir isn't getting PT anyway, so there you go.

If Billups doesn't play G4, it might be time to beef up the servers for this site.

Dual AMD Opteron 246 Processors w/ 1MB cache each

2 GB RAM

:)

But we handled the Ben exodus with this setup, I think we can handle just about anything now... :)

Last year, the rule was that you pick who gets to be on the roster for the post season. Once you decide, it is final.



I think Lee had it correct. Last year, you could change your 12-man roster each game in the playoffs.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - DET @ ORL (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20080507&game=DETORL)

See if you can tell. I'm guessing Tay, but what stands out to me is Rashard abusing Hayes... and everyone else.


It seems to me that One thing that I am noticing is that most of their 3-point attempts are not coming from us double teaming Howard or their guards drivmost of it is off of chaos (semi fast breaks, offensive rebounds, etc.) and just plain pick setting on the perimeter.

Hayes needs to be quarantined. His bad defense is affecting other players.

---

This is pretty typical of our defense of late and Flip's defensive philiosophy. According to him our defense is predicated on our offense which while it does play a part should never be the case (and it's not so much us missing shots as it is taking bad shots; Rip, i'm talking to you)

Our transition D has been awful, and we really have no shot-blocking presence to speak or interior presence outside of Sheed (and Amir, but that's another story), who's hanging out w/ Lewis at the 3pt line. We're just going to have to either play Amir or suck it up and deal with potential foul trouble and put Sheed on Dho. Solves two problems b/c while the two SF's are killing us, Howard is quietly hurting us as well with his constant 20 points.

And for the love of god, No more Hayes, and no more Hayes/Hermann/or Theo in the game together. I don't even want to see them sitting next to eachother on the bench.

Oh and Amir will not be inactive. Flip is scared of us fans.

Some of us think Amir is a world beater. He needs to be used correctly. In transistion then around the hoop. Let some one else take his man on the perimeter.
...I thought Stuck is the man...let's see.
...And if they hit 3 3s in a row, move the D outward. 3s will kill you quicker than 2s.

Some of us think Amir is a world beater. He needs to be used correctly. In transistion then around the hoop. Let some one else take his man on the perimeter.
...I thought Stuck is the man...let's see.
...And if they hit 3 3s in a row, move the D outward. 3s will kill you quicker than 2s.

I second that. You are a tornado fighting guru.


:smoke06:

I aint fought Poo

Amir needs to be on the floor at least a few minutes in each half. He can give us some help defense at the rim and is quick enough to make things tuff on Turkeyglue. We also need to play ball denial defense on the perimeter. Let DHo get his in the paint while we keep the shooters off balance. Press up on them and make them score off the dribble. Use AA, Herman and Amir to chase them off the 3 point line. We have enough bigs to contend with Howard. Make him score 40 to beat us.

I don't think he can!!!!!

I aint fought Pooh

You shouldn't fight Pooh. He's a tough ole' bear.

http://www.silvitablanco.com.ar/winnie_pooh/winnie_pooh_6/pooh_jogando_futebol.jpg

The lil sissy Pooh, I beat up.
DD some think Amir can't defend the perimeter. He's afraid guys will blow by him. Maybe he gives up too much space.