ECF Game 6 Celtics/Pistons Fri. May 30th, 8:30 PM

tv: ESPN

Series swings back to Auburn Hills as the Pistons enter their 1st Elimination game of the post-season.

I don't have to tell you all how huge this game is. Will this be the last charge for Flip and his immortals? Or can they finally get over the 10 win post-season hump and force this thing back to Boston for a game 7?

If they lose then all I ask is for the team to leave it all out on the court. If Boston is the better team then they are the better team. But thats not been decided yet and the Pistons are still alive.

Back in the ECF of 05 against the Heat the Pistons were also down 2-3 without homecourt in the series. Time to step it up and prove that they still are capable of winning these kinds of things.

This is it. This is what they are going to be remembered by. Its going to determine if they will be remembered as underachievers or as champions.

Hamilton uncertain for game 6
Hamilton strains elbow, uncertain for Game 6 - Detroit Pistons Basketball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/05/hamilton_strains_elbow_uncerta.html)

I concur Max.

We got to get over the proverbial 10 game hump and win # 11 and then take care of business Sunday and win #12. We were actually in the same position the last three years, down 3-2. We came back and won the won 6 and 7 as you indicated (with LB in 05). But with Flip we have lost game six and the series the last two years. Each of those two losses were on the road but this time we have game 6 at home and have to prevail.

No game 3 duplications or let downs here, no free chili for the Celtics. If they do then it so long Mr Flip and one of those underachieving vets:sssh:

Stuckey says that we got killed on the glass and need to do a better job. Then he suggested we play Amir . . .
















Ok, the second part is not true, but you know he thinks it. :hoops:

Stuckey says that we got killed on the glass and need to do a better job. Then he suggested we play Amir . . .
Ok, the second part is not true, but you know he thinks it. :hoops:
And so do I. Why not give a try ? Does it hurt ?

And so do I. Why not give a try ? Does it hurt ?

Flip's scared to death to try it
:hoops:

Flip's gone after tomorrow (I hope), and I'll be happy, for one.

you're funny here: all blames to flip who didn't play amir. Ok, he maybe could have been good enough for several rebounds but at the same time committed several fouls also, it means 4-6 additional foul shots to C's. And he is physically a lot weaker than perkins or KG or PJ Brown.

The only way to beat boston is that all starters have to play well or at least have above average game.

I know, I know, next poster asks after this: but how'bout afflalo? Isn't he savior's materal?

Joe needs to sign Flip to an extension just before the game starts. This will set the tone for the whole night. 4 years at about 18.9 million should just about do it. When we win it all, then Flip becomes a bargain. Remember...All of you who think that Flip is gone...Think... Who was the person who picked up Theo during the season? Who gave Flip the opportunity to bench Amir in favor of Theo? All Joe had to do is just watch Flip play Amir if that's what he wanted. I see Joe keeping Flip.........He's the consumate company man...

9.98 DR
Elimination game, it would only be tougher on the road.
Celts could relax and reload for home, that been there M.O.
Aside from the rebounding issues just avoid the cold shooting streaks.

9.98 DR
Elimination game, it would only be tougher on the road.
Celts could relax and reload for home, that been there M.O.
Aside from the rebounding issues just avoid the cold shooting streaks.

This is like saying, aside from the dagger in my lungs and subsequent blood filling them up... I feel fine.

you're funny here: all blames to flip who didn't play amir. Ok, he maybe could have been good enough for several rebounds but at the same time committed several fouls

Again, everybody else was getting called for fouls anyways.

At worst you make them earn the points from the stripe, and you save the starters legs and foul trouble.

Again, everybody else was getting called for fouls anyways.

At worst you make them earn the points from the stripe, and you save the starters legs and foul trouble.

That's what Flip and some persons upstair this thread don't understand.

Again, everybody else was getting called for fouls anyways.

At worst you make them earn the points from the stripe, and you save the starters legs and foul trouble.

Plus you get the opportunity to get easy buckets by getting a rebound and running the ball rather then taking it out of bounds after ANOTHER Celtic point blank put back!!!!!

That's what Flip and some persons upstair this thread don't understand.

Wrong. some starters have underperformed and our bench is not capable of covering those underperformances. Our bench are rookies and veteran minimums. Why do you treat them like world saviors?

In or current configuration it is starters job to win games. Maybe in this club are starters roles way too big? I mean, maybe dumars and flip expect too much from starters?

yeah, fact of the matter is it's the starters who aren't getting it done. the bench is capable of holding leads, extending leads, or even chipping away at leads...but you can't expect them to come back from 17-20 down.

i'll be at the game and i'll probably lose my voice again, but i fully expect a drubbing by the pistons and then anything goes in game 7.

Wrong. some starters have underperformed and our bench is not capable of covering those underperformances. Our bench are rookies and veteran minimums. Why do you treat them like world saviors?

Rax, without Stuckey, the Pistons would be fishing right now. He's a bench rookie. All year long, Stuck, Afflalo, and Amir were contributing to wins. Stuckey didn't stand out as being the superstar amoung them. These 3 players are all good and can all help, if given the chance.

The vets off the bench have been given plenty of opportunity and they are playing pretty average.

Take this for example:
Lindsey Hunter has played 52 minutes so far against Boston. He has 7 points on 37% shooting, and 5 steals compared to 14 personal fouls.

Now, what are Afflalo's perceived weaknesses? His shot can be cold and he fouls a lot with his aggressive defense? I'm fairly confidend that he can provide more than Lindsey... who I actually think has been overachieving so far.

Rax, without Stuckey, the Pistons would be fishing right now. He's a bench rookie. All year long, Stuck, Afflalo, and Amir were contributing to wins. Stuckey didn't stand out as being the superstar amoung them. These 3 players are all good and can all help, if given the chance.

The vets off the bench have been given plenty of opportunity and they are playing pretty average.

Take this for example:
Lindsey Hunter has played 52 minutes so far against Boston. He has 7 points on 37% shooting, and 5 steals compared to 14 personal fouls.

Now, what are Afflalo's perceived weaknesses? His shot can be cold and he fouls a lot with his aggressive defense? I'm fairly confidend that he can provide more than Lindsey... who I actually think has been overachieving so far.

The sad part is that we may never know.

Rax, without Stuckey, the Pistons would be fishing right now. He's a bench rookie. All year long, Stuck, Afflalo, and Amir were contributing to wins. Stuckey didn't stand out as being the superstar amoung them. These 3 players are all good and can all help, if given the chance.

The vets off the bench have been given plenty of opportunity and they are playing pretty average.

Take this for example:
Lindsey Hunter has played 52 minutes so far against Boston. He has 7 points on 37% shooting, and 5 steals compared to 14 personal fouls.

Now, what are Afflalo's perceived weaknesses? His shot can be cold and he fouls a lot with his aggressive defense? I'm fairly confidend that he can provide more than Lindsey... who I actually think has been overachieving so far.

AA instead of lenz - very minor issue and stuckey gets PT anyway. Listen, I have nothing against of playing those players, but I do not believe, as some do, that they are capable of turning things around.

As warthog said it is one thing to keep lead but coming back is absolutely another, especially in ECF and vs. Boston.

I'm in full agreement with those who say play AA and AJ, but it is in our situation IMO really small thing. We live and die depending on what starters do, THIS matters.

The bench has played 30.3% of the total playoff minutes so far compared to 69.7% for the starters.

So, yes, the starters are 2.3 times as important to our success. But 30% is too big to ignore.

The part that I will agree with is that as fans we can't do anything about any of this. We can't make our starters play better and we can't put our best bench players on the court.

Flip also can't make our starters play much better. The one thing that he has absolute contol over is which bench players to play. I think that is where our frustration comes from.

The bench has played 30.3% of the total playoff minutes so far compared to 69.7% for the starters.

So, yes, the starters are 2.3 times as important to our success. But 30% is too big to ignore.

The part that I will agree with is that as fans we can't do anything about any of this. We can't make our starters play better and we can't put our best bench players on the court.

Flip also can't make our starters play much better. The one thing that he has absolute contol over is which bench players to play. I think that is where our frustration comes from.

Correct if I'm wrong but I vaguely remember that in title run it was 80% starters mins and rest for bench.Still our, perceivable "best" bench players are not capable of correcting starters mistakes.

Still our, perceivable "best" bench players are not capable of correcting starters mistakes.

But Stuckey is and has been doing just that. He's carried us.

But Stuckey is and has been doing just that. He's carried us.

Rest of bench are not "stuckey's"...yet.

Problem is that starter can miss 4 shots in a row and he still plays.Why? Because he is capable of to hit 4 in a row after bad break.

Our starters are capable of to overcome their own bad plays. Except for stuckey, rest of bench are not able for that.

There is no way that you'd be saying Stuckey is capable of this if you hadn't just seen it first hand. Your position has always been that our starters start for a reason and our bench players are benched for reason. If we lose, it is because of execution.

That is a really stress-free way to look at things. I may have to convert.

The bench has played 30.3% of the total playoff minutes so far compared to 69.7% for the starters.

So, yes, the starters are 2.3 times as important to our success. But 30% is too big to ignore.

True, but that number is a little misleading. I think there's probably not a single minute ever when the bench is in all by itself, and there are only a few plays the entire night when anyone from the bench is having their number called on offense over any of the starters. So while the bench play is important, probably at least 95% of the game is up to the starters to make the plays. If they're not doing that, the bench is probably not going to make up for that. Now I agree we have a good bench and maybe some of them should be given more opportunities, but overall I think Flip is doing fine, and the little quibbles we have with him are not going to won the game for us.

There is no way that you'd be saying Stuckey is capable of this if you hadn't just seen it first hand. Your position has always been that our starters start for a reason and our bench players are benched for reason. If we lose, it is because of execution.

That is a really stress-free way to look at things. I may have to convert.

Life is good this way, bro! Why pull your hair out over things that you can't control and that don't personally affect your life? There are a lot more important things that I have tied to my happiness than a basketball game. :MusicBigGrin:

There is no way that you'd be saying Stuckey is capable of this if you hadn't just seen it first hand. Your position has always been that our starters start for a reason and our bench players are benched for reason. If we lose, it is because of execution.

That is a really stress-free way to look at things. I may have to convert.

Yeah, that is what I have done. Feel free to convert. My church needs members. :)

I think we're also forgetting that our biggest gamechanger this series (Dice) was strapped to bench by the refs the entire game. Mighty shady by those Boston floppers to flop Dice out of the game like that, and might unprofessional of the refs to fall for it.

Life is good this way, bro! Why pull your hair out over things that you can't control and that don't personally affect your life? There are a lot more important things that I have tied to my happiness than a basketball game. :MusicBigGrin:

You don't understand coyne. I'm actually trying to control Flip indirectly through my contribution to the general mindset of this forum, which gets read by beat writers, who then write articles echoing our sentiments. Flip reads those articles, scoffs at them, and then subconsciously incorporates them into his decision making process. Did you notice when Amir Johnson was sent to the scorer's table with 22 seconds left in the first half? You think that was 100% Flip's idea? He probably doesn't even remember doing it.

This is like saying, aside from the dagger in my lungs and subsequent blood filling them up... I feel fine.

:pound:

Also the bench can make up for the mistakes by the starters by them not being in the game. That lead would not have evaporated had the bench stayed out there. Mind you, this was against BOS' starters.

Rest of bench are not "stuckey's"...yet.

Problem is that starter can miss 4 shots in a row and he still plays.Why? Because he is capable of to hit 4 in a row after bad break.

Our starters are capable of to overcome their own bad plays. Except for stuckey, rest of bench are not able for that.

The only reason you "know" this to be true is because he was given the opportunity to "show" you. He only has 2 years of college experience at a small school.

AA has four years of experience at UCLA and final four games that his has played in. Rational thinking would suggest that AA is more qualified to have a positive contribution off the bench then Stuckey. The difference is that he has not been given the opportunity.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to know that AA or Amir cannot have a positive impact on the game!!!! :gun1:

I am watching the replay of this game on NBA TV right now and the starters lost this game in the second qtr. The score was tied at 25-25 when PJ had the flagrant foul on Max. The Pistons pushed the score up to 38-33 with Max, Rip Dice, Stuckey, Hunter and then Theo when Max got his third foul.

At the 5:40 mark, flip put all five starters back in and the Celtics proceeded to close the quarter from that standpoint with a 19-8 run including 11 in a row at one point. During that period Billups over dribbled and we only went to the paint 1 or 2 times with KG blocking one of the those Rip drives. As I said in the chat room, I don't mind the starters closing out the games, but when closing out the half their lack of desire is evident and they seem more excited about getting to the lockeroom than showing any energy on the floor. I also mentioned before the game was that the key to the game was closing out quarters which they did very nicely on the 1st, 3rd and 4th, but didn't in the all important second where they should have had 6-10 point lead instead of being down by 6. ... Dice did go to the bench with 3 fouls and then everyone's whipping boy Theo came in contributed to the lackadaisical play during the close out. I am not saying that Amir would have made any impact, but he does have the knack of grabbing boards ala Ben and Rodman...so what if he commits a couple of fouls and doesn't score......it was the lack of getting rebounds that ultimately did them in despite the comeback and close loss.

I was also really disappointed that we couldn't keep that lead that we built in the 2nd quarter. It was a bit demoralizing to let it slip away.

I think most of us here like Theo. We're just realists.

Pros-
He tried hard, and he is tall. He's a shot blocker.

Cons-
His offensive game is basically limited to dunks and he doesn't rebound well.

So i read that if Rip is out Stuck is starting. Dixon will be activated.

I don't like it. IMO, Blliups/Stuck do not play well together. I'd rather stick with what we did in the beginning of the year. I think Aaron takes care of Ray Allen doesn't let him get into a rythm, and having him on the floor forces Tay/Sheed to step it up. Knowing Flip though, he won't even play.

I like the idea of activating Dixon. Please deactivate Theo.

The bench looked great pushing the tempo. We need to run. CB needs someone to threaten him to get him to give up the ball.

I will be completely drunk for this game. :party:

I don`t believe I am saying this, but, here goes; if Aaron Afflalo doesn`t play, at least 8-10 min in this game Flip should be ashamed of himself.

He could really help, IMO. With Rip out, there is no excuse to give him some PT, just to see what he can do.

I don`t believe I am saying this, but, here goes; if Aaron Afflalo doesn`t play, at least 8-10 min in this game Flip should be ashamed of himself.

He could really help, IMO. With Rip out, there is no excuse to give him some PT, just to see what he can do.I agree completely. His D alone would be probably be worth his PT...and who knows? He might get to the rim a couple times too.

St8o, hey, no way KG shoots like he did game five. That's more defensive boards for us.
But Perkins may need to be dealt with.
-
Unfortunately no way Sheed shoots like game 5.

I agree completely. His D alone would be probably be worth his PT...and who knows? He might get to the rim a couple times too.

Also when he plays the energy of the team goes way up esp defensively. He's also someone BOS is not prepared for, and since he isn't a great jumpshooter he pushes the ball, attacks the rim. (and runs the break well).

He will neutralize Ray Allen which we need. Stuckey, for all his great qualities, can't get around a screen to save his life.

Flip can then put Stuck on the floor with Linds (who are very good together) and he won't have to play the dreaded two rookies together.

Stuck/Billups doesn't make sense since they both can't really shoot at the moment, and neither can stop penetration.

I have a feeling Rip will play though. How effective he'll be is another story . . .

It will be a big hit not having Rip. I think we can still pull this out without him but he has to be back for game 7.

With the way Hunter has been playing its hard to knock Flip for making the move for Hunter over AA. Right now it does put us in a tough spot.

Normally AA would get the start and it worked out pretty well during the season. With his lack of PT in the playoffs I am not sure it would be the best move right now. I think you have to go with the guys who have been playing.

Maybe start Stucky at the point with Billups as the SG and try combinations of Hunter, Dixson and AA off the bench to see what works.

Hopefully one of those bench guys can be our Boobie Gibson for this one game.

Anybody see this? Game 5 related.

LH and Stephen A. Smith

Hunter/Pistons Question 'Sheed's Loyalty - ESPN Video (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3417747&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2)

Odd, but i agree Sheed STOP HUGGING KG!!

Anybody see this? Game 5 related.

LH and Stephen A. Smith

Hunter/Pistons Question 'Sheed's Loyalty - ESPN Video (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3417747&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2)

Odd, but i agree Sheed STOP HUGGING KG!!

Nice find. Very interesting. Hunter referred to talking with his "other coach" Michael Curry on how they could improve the defense.

Hunter said Rip has also been pretty upset about Sheed. You definetly do not want these kinds of distractions.

Anybody see this? Game 5 related.

LH and Stephen A. Smith

Hunter/Pistons Question 'Sheed's Loyalty - ESPN Video (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3417747&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2)

Odd, but i agree Sheed STOP HUGGING KG!!
Weird. Hunter is trying to match Smith's hyperactivity, and ends up sounding really forced and fake. Has Lenz been popping those diet pills?

Anybody see this? Game 5 related.

LH and Stephen A. Smith

Hunter/Pistons Question 'Sheed's Loyalty - ESPN Video (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3417747&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2)

Odd, but i agree Sheed STOP HUGGING KG!!


It's official Curry will be the head coach next year with Hunter his # 1 assistant. Flip and Cowens are gone if the Pistons are not on a plane to Boston Saturday morning. Not sure about TP, he may get HC job or be another assistance somewhere else if Joe doesn't promise him the #1 job at the palace.

If Lindsey increases hit scoring production by 100%, he'll still have 0 points.

Can't start AA b/c he's rusty? Great reason Flip.

I think Joe would shake up the starting unit if this game results in an L and end to another season where the Stones could'nt compete for a Championship. Sort of depressing thinking about that given how long we have seen these players, even though I'd like to choke them at times.

Rip will play. Rip being Rip, he'll play. But how effective is he going to be? Psychologically, he'll tend to miss a lot of shots thinking about the arm and that's natural. And this might be trouble for us. Flip really need to think about running plays that Flip end up passing the ball to open shooters, like Dice. Rip can still be effective without shooting that much. He has to contain Allen. He can still play good D. If he has to shoot, please let those be lay ups.

Flip, play AA. I don't care even if it is for 10 seconds or less. He should be playing cause when he does in this series, the PISTONS are 2-0.

If we play with the ENERGY & PASSION, we will WIN.

LET'S GO PISTONS!

Too bad this didn't happen to Sheed instead. All that lefty practice would finally pay off.

In all honesty, we are in rough shape right now.

We have a top 5 point guard with a bad hammy.
The top midrange shooter in the game with hyper extended shooting elbow.
The "most talented player in history if he chose to use it" who is 1 tech from a suspension.

At least we are going to have the come crowd.

Rip will play. Rip being Rip, he'll play. But how effective is he going to be? Psychologically, he'll tend to miss a lot of shots thinking about the arm and that's natural. And this might be trouble for us. Flip really need to think about running plays that Flip end up passing the ball to open shooters, like Dice. Rip can still be effective without shooting that much. He has to contain Allen. He can still play good D. If he has to shoot, please let those be lay ups.

Flip, play AA. I don't care even if it is for 10 seconds or less. He should be playing cause when he does in this series, the PISTONS are 2-0.

If we play with the ENERGY & PASSION, we will WIN.

LET'S GO PISTONS!



Which brings up the question that I have been asking for weeks now.

Do you get him in the game; NO MATTER WHAT????

It may be fate, dumb luck or who knows but when AA plays; we win. Get him in the next 2 games.

With Rip out, there is no excuse to give him some PT, just to see what he can do.

Idk, in a do or die game like this, you dont tend to use players "to see what they can do". I hope they win this, with or without AA, but there is no time for testing.

It's just a shame the Pistons can't play with that same desperation before the situation requires it.

Btw, I dont really think Rip will be able to play. Its a shame, but the other 4 will have to step up the way he always does. Specially Rasheed and Prince.


I would like you all to read this article, I think its perfect:

Last call? Pistons need more than reputation now | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080530/SPORTS03/805300360/1051)

Syg.

Mitch Albom brings us some reality.........:stirthepot:

Tonight, they pull out the old armor, they tug on the rusty helmets, they lift the familiar swords. But if they fall, it is over. Know that. This annual drama, this thrilling but maddening Pistons attitude ends tonight if the Celtics win. All good theatre runs its course, and the Pistons Entitlement Show of the past four years has become a feisty but weary act. It might have one great performance left. It may still hold a championship. But, like a Broadway hit with dwindling box office, it is being watched by its backers very carefully.
And a curtain hangs overhead.
"We're going to come out and we're going to fight and we're going to scratch," Chauncey Billups said well after midnight following the Game (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080530/SPORTS03/805300360/1051#) 5 loss at Boston. "We're going to claw and do the things that we've been known to do."
Sounds good. Sounds strong.
But ask this tough question: What things have the Pistons "been known to do?"
Since winning the NBA title in 2004, they have been known to: 1) Steal playoff games (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080530/SPORTS03/805300360/1051#). 2) Throw away playoff games. 3) Win strong on the road. 4) Lose ugly at home. 5) Go longer than needed against inferior teams. 6) Oust challengers in seven games. 7) Watch certain stars drift off the stage. 8) Stay cool. 9) Lose their cool. 10) Face elimination. 11) Say they like the pressure. And 12) Get eliminated anyhow.
Much has been made of the six straight trips to the Eastern Conference finals. And it is impressive. But if the Pistons bow out tonight or Sunday, they will have lost four of those six.
That's nothing to hang your hat (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080530/SPORTS03/805300360/1051#) on.
And it won't let them play Kings in Exile. Not anymore.
Really better after all these years?

There has long been a feeling that these Pistons are defending champions, even when they are not defending anything more than "Eastern Conference Semifinalist." They play, act and are even chronicled by the media as if they're the San Antonio Spurs, a title-rich franchise always looming for another. But the Spurs actually have done it. They won last year and two years before that and two years before that and four years before that.
These Pistons have one crown. They're not defending it. They're remembering it.
And it's getting fuzzier.
So tonight, with Rip Hamilton, their leading scorer in the series, injured and questionable, they will wage a desperate battle with Boston not to win the conference, but to stay alive. You can go back and look at Game 1 and say they let rust beat them, Game 3 and say they blew a great chance, Game 5 and say they just missed a spectacular comeback.
But for three years, in their final round, the Pistons have had games like that and rationalizing like that. And they walk away saying, "We're still the better team."
That mantra is over. If they're the better team, they'll win tonight. They'll do it with mettle, guts and patience. And if they win tonight, you like them in a Game 7 against a team that hasn't reached the NBA Finals in two decades.
But if they lose, they will have seen, for the third straight year, a franchise that was behind them surge past for a shot at the title. And there's no reason to expect this cast and coach, left intact, would fare any better next time.
Best shots needed from big shots

So Rasheed Wallace, heard Wednesday night in the locker room cursing a blue streak, will have to play, not scowl, his way to redemption. And Tayshaun Prince, understandably tired from his defensive burdens, will have to find aggression and a shooting touch if he wants another game this season. And Billups, a puzzling force this series, will have to earn his Mr. Big Shot reputation, not just hear it. And Antonio McDyess, who never plays with entitlement, will have one more chance to earn that right.
Meanwhile, Flip Saunders, who tilts with fans between "doing all he can" and "unable to do anything," may have his job in the balance.
And if all that sounds like a lot, it is. For all the bravado, here is who these Pistons really are: a team that, like late-arriving passengers, stuffs all its baggage into one huge suitcase and tries to hoist it through a closing door.
In years past, there was always another flight. Always a feeling of next year. I don't think they can count on that anymore. Chauncey's "things that we've been known to do" needs a new interpretation. Tonight, the curtain opens or the curtain falls. Jump ball.
Contact MITCH ALBOM at 313-223-4581 or malbom@freepress.com (malbom@freepress.com).
Click here (http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckForum&plckForumPage=Forum&plckForumId=Cat%3a3d38d5ea-be26-42e1-b8c1-5c828cc9b4e3Forum%3acaf35b0e-429d-4fe0-a206-27e93663b99b&plckNumPerPage=200&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0) if you would like to comment on Mitch Albom's columns.

We've already seen what AA can do. He played 25% of available minutes during the regular season compared to 27% for Stuckey.

Also, during the first 2 rounds of the playoffs this year, he was our 8th most used player, ahead of Ratliff.

Afflalo is a known commodity. He will bring exceptional defense and unselfish offense.

We've already seen what AA can do. He played 25% of available minutes during the regular season compared to 27% for Stuckey.

Also, during the first 2 rounds of the playoffs this year, he was our 8th most used player, ahead of Ratliff.

Afflalo is a known commodity. He will bring exceptional defense and unselfish offense.

Amen, and Amen.

The top midrange shooter in the game with hyper extended shooting elbow.
The "most talented player in history if he chose to use it" who is 1 tech from a suspension.


I thought it was his LEFT elbow that he hurt. Are you S*&$ing me!?!??!? We're screwed! What's the point in playing if he can't shoot. He isn't good for much else (no offense Rip)!

I've said it before, Sheed will get that dreaded 7th T, we will win but be without himin Game 7. He can't go a game without getting one!

PLEASE Pistons, prove me wrong!

If Lindsey increases hit scoring production by 100%, he'll still have 0 points.

Can't start AA b/c he's rusty? Great reason Flip.

He said that?!!!? AA plays defense. Rusty? He's got boundless amounts of energy from sitting on that damn bench. We don't even pass him the ball! How the hell can he be rusty? :frusty:

edited to add;

That article blows.

Hamilton will play tonight.


AUBURN HILLS -- Richard Hamilton's strained right elbow is still not feeling great, but it won't keep him out of the lineup tonight.
As he was making his way off the practice floor to receive treatments, he told me "there's no way in hell I'm not playing tonight."
I'll have more later on Hamilton playing despite the still-sore right elbow in the Booth Newspapers and on mlive.com.

Hamilton will play tonight - Detroit Pistons Basketball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/05/hamilton_will_play_tonight_1.html)

No, Flip didn't call AA rusty. I just sort of responded to an earlier comment here that we can't play AA in a critical game now because he's rusty and then I blamed Flip for causing the rust.

I'll admit that he and Amir could each have that deer in the headlights look if they were actually put in now due to the length of time that they've been out and the magnitude of the situation. However, I'm a little upset that they haven't been at least been getting spot minutes to keep them involved.

I'm going to end it like this: if we can't beat Boston at home tonight, then we are not the better team. It doesn't matter if we have a couple minor injuries or if our bench isn't being utilized or if we get hosed on the calls or if our coach sucks, we should still win this game. I fully expect it to happen.

No, Flip didn't call AA rusty. I just sort of responded to an earlier comment here that we can't play AA in a critical game now because he's rusty and then I blamed Flip for causing the rust.

I'll admit that he and Amir could each have that deer in the headlights look if they were actually put in now due to the length of time that they've been out and the magnitude of the situation. However, I'm a little upset that they haven't been at least been getting spot minutes to keep them involved.

I'm going to end it like this: if we can't beat Boston at home tonight, then we are not the better team. It doesn't matter if we have a couple minor injuries or if our bench isn't being utilized or if we get hosed on the calls or if our coach sucks, we should still win this game. I fully expect it to happen.

Ahh Ok, I was looking for that article LOL.

Your better than me. I won't ever believe BOS was the better team. We're handicaped by our coach's inability. For all River's faults, he's not afraid to bench his starters, and throw people in there.

BOS will just be better due to circumstance/injury even if we lose this game which i believe we will (No Jinxing!)

ESPN Page 2 - Simmons: Coasting toward the Finals (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080530)

After six yo-yo weeks in the playoffs, nobody knows what to make of the Celtics anymore -- they play hard, they're poorly coached, and they live and die by jump shots. That's really all we know. During the first 60 games of the regular season -- you know, before Doc Rivers completely panicked, strayed from his set rotation and openly tried to defy every example of how to coach a successful playoff team -- the Celtics were getting a nightly boost from their bench guys, specifically James Posey, Eddie House, Leon Powe and Glen Davis. Then Cassell and P.J. Brown were added to the mix, and just like everyone secretly feared, Doc couldn't settled on a nine-man rotation heading into the postseason, ultimately deciding to "coach by feel," as his former broadcast partner, Mike Breen, justified it during one of the Eastern Conference finals games.

Well, here's what happens when you "coach by feel." Your bench guys lose confidence. Guys start looking over their shoulders. There's no consistency from game to game. And fans who haven't bought cigarettes for five years -- namely, me  end up driving to a seedy liquor store at 10 o'clock at night to buy a pack of Marlboro Lights.

But the game took so freaking long to play (thanks to the timeouts and too many whistles from Mike Callahan, who's the next Joey Crawford in that he mistakenly thinks the fans showed up to watch him call fouls), and the Celtics and their fans expended so much energy during the first three quarters that when Detroit finally made its run in the fourth quarter, it felt like we were already playing Game 6. The Pistons kept inching closer and closer, buoyed by full-court pressure that Flip Saunders (no brain surgeon himself) should have been using for this entire series because Boston is such a shaky ballhandling team.

It's funny to hear that Simmons' complaints about his team are the same as ours. These two coaches deserve eachother.

ESPN Page 2 - Simmons: Coasting toward the Finals (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080530)





It's funny to hear that Simmons' complaints about his team are the same as ours. These two coaches deserve eachother.

It is ironic. The difference is Doc changed the rotation, and then realized it wasn't working (took him long enough) and went back to the orginal. We have yet to see Flip do the same.

I've said it before, Sheed will get that dreaded 7th T, we will win but be without himin Game 7. He can't go a game without getting one!




Sheed does seem to lose it at the worst possible time, usually in an elimination game.

Hopefully, he can get that 7th tech in game 7, Pistons win, and open the Finals Thursday against the Palace with a win against the Lakers, without Sheed!

I will now wake up from this dream.................:pound:

You guys underestimate Sheed. I'm calling it right now. No tech for Sheed unless the game is absolutely out of reach (which ppl forget the CLE game was and Sheed had fouled out as well), I'm talking like down 20 with 3 min to go.

If there is a Game 7, he WILL be playing in it.

i'll be there and ready to lose my voice for 3 days again

GO PISTONS!!

You guys underestimate Sheed. I'm calling it right now. No tech for Sheed unless the game is absolutely out of reach (which ppl forget the CLE game was and Sheed had fouled out as well), I'm talking like down 20 with 3 min to go.

If there is a Game 7, he WILL be playing in it.

YESYESYES LET'S GO BABAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M FIRED UP!!!!!!!

GO PISTONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CB If there is evil in Orlando in the game 3 this series, 'we had already won


sorry for my english and go pistons

CB If there is evil in Orlando in the game 3 this series, 'we had already won


agreed.

pls be there

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/strifepoge/tay.jpg

:stirthepot:

:MusicBigGrin:

i'll be there and ready to lose my voice for 3 days again

GO PISTONS!!

Going to have to represent. I wish I had tickets this year.

pls be there

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/strifepoge/tay.jpg

:stirthepot:

:MusicBigGrin:

The artist formerly known as Prince

The artist formerly known as Prince

The guy who formerly could hit a jump shot called Prince. I don't know what it is with him and the ECF's. Picks a bad time to go into a slump.

Shuffle the bench and starters in and out to run and gun like 48 minutes of body punches!!!!!!!!

The guy who formerly could hit a jump shot called Prince. I don't know what it is with him and the ECF's. Picks a bad time to go into a slump.

His legs are gone. That's what the 40-40-40 will do for ya.

And PP is a pretty underrated defender when he wants to be, but then again we haven't even tried going at him really.

If Bos. doesn't perform and thinks they can go back to Bos. and invoke their HCA
we win the Con. in 7 games.
If however Bos. plays hard and loses by ,say, 5 or less. They go home and get the win.

His legs are gone. That's what the 40-40-40 will do for ya.

And PP is a pretty underrated defender when he wants to be, but then again we haven't even tried going at him really.
-
He better not foul and fall on our guys legs and stroke his ass and thighs
like some kind of loverboy !!!:yellowprison::cold:

His legs are gone. That's what the 40-40-40 will do for ya.

And PP is a pretty underrated defender when he wants to be, but then again we haven't even tried going at him really.

Why can players on other teams do it?

I'd be excited if everyone wasn't talking about the dream LA v BOS final. Did you know they played a meaningful game 20+ years ago? Really, they did. Let the reaming begin!

Why can players on other teams do it?

What you have to look at is the fact that his opposition is also playing the big minutes. If you put AJ or AA on him with fresh legs; you would see a huge disparity. They would be able to use their quickness to stay in front and be able to beat him up and down the floor consistently. The fresher legs would allow them to jump higher to get some of those rebounds we are missing. That is what the bench is for.

When you compare him to someone playing the same number of minutes; you don't notice the descrepancy(sp).

Chat is open, early. Please have a good night, and look after each other. Win or lose, be strong and proud.

http://www.pistonsforum.com/playoff-chat/

:)

Save this post:


I PROMISE YOU. THE CELTS ARE SPENT.
1. MENTALLY, THEY WILL THROW IN THE TOWEL IN GAME 6 TO KIND OF REST UP FORGAME 7. PISTONS 111-89.

2. THEY WONT HAVE ANY LEGS FOR GAME 7 AND PISTON EXPIRIENCE COMES THROUGH. PISTONS 97-90.

ON TO FINALS.

DEEEETROOOIIITT

It's been a nice run guys.

it ends tonight.

Looking forward to the draft.

It's been a nice run guys.

it ends tonight.

Looking forward to the draft.
Will a noogie tide you over until Game 7? :gun1:

Lindsey is killing us, and playing a really low energy game.

We need some heroes this game...

Lindsey is killing us, and playing a really low energy game.

We need some heroes this game...


We really need Sheed and/or Prince to step up.

Max isn't helping. Both Max and Prince seem like they are sedated.

The defense has been really undisciplined. Boston is just breaking them down at will...

Chauncey and Rip have been inspiring though.

I don't understand why Tay won't work Pierce on the block...

SHEEEEDDDDDDDDDD please.....start to play:hoops:

half 37 40 this match is impossible to lose

half 37 40 this match is impossible to lose
PREGO! :D

Hi nene! :hoops:

My dog just vomited on my foot, it was more enjoyable than that first half.

C$ and Rip are pressing. Sheed and Tay are nothing'ing.

How has Theo survived in this league so long? He makes so many baaaaaad plays....,.

How has Theo survived in this league so long? He makes so many baaaaaad plays....,.

better yet... when was the last time garnett was called for the moving pick he does atleast every other poss?

Pistons in big trouble. Down 7, 2,30 to go.

Massive 4th Q meltdown.

Fingers crossed until the buzzer...

that's it. Dumars has some work to do. But I do not believe that something remarkable happens before draft day.

That's the deal, Sheed must go and we will see JMax take his place or Amir.

Deja vu. I didn't even watch the 4th. As soon as the lead melted away, I knew it was done. I think Billups, Hamilton, McDyess and the young guys are the only ones I'd protect. Sheed and Prince whithered under pressure again. Other teams continue to pass them by. I honestly hope the Celtics beat the Lakers. You guys (and gals) may puke, but I think Garnett deserves a ring. I won't watch the games, though. The media love-fest will make me puke.

Flip has to go along w/ atleast 1 or 2 starters. The better team won in this series. Clearly not having a go to guy down the stretch is an issue w/ a team built on a balanced attack. No one can be counted on to step up and make plays and will the team to a W over the course of a series. On first blush, I would say Tay and Sheed should be considered as trade bait, but am too numb to think. Most every team in the last 30 years have had a superstar, only the Pistons have won on the team concept. The championship window with this core is CLOSED. Disappointed but not surprised, this is the limit of the Pistons ability. Can't win when your best players don't show up to play night in and night out.

To lose a home playoff game with Benett Salvatore as the ref is really something else. Losing when Tay does what Tay does best, holding the ball for no reason. Losing when Sheed leaves the O at home, when CB misses free throws and when Flip won't stand up for his players.

I have never seen so many O fouls called on players shooting jump shots like BOS was and DET still lost. DET actually looked like an NBA team with the calls they were getting at home, but it wasn't enough. "2 games is us" should be the motto next year. I am sure we'll see plenty of bravado in February.

S-U-M-M-E-R L-E-A-G-U-E! S-U-M-M-E-R L-E-A-G-U-E!! S-U-M-M-E-R L-E-A-G-U-E!!!

I at first was ready to light myself on fire thinking of the C's in the Finals, but in the end I think I am glad. The C's deserved to win in the end and DET did not. I don't remember the Bullets or Sonics strutting around in 1985 after they won in the late 70's once.

I thought the Pistons had it won after the 3rd quarter, but wow, what a complete meltdown. 29-13 in the 4th? On your home floor?!

Blame Flip all you want, but I think that quarter made it clear that this team can't get over the hump without some real changes across the board. Maybe they do need a different coach, but this group of players is obviously not good enough to make the Finals again.

The better team won this series. It's not what we wanted, but it was fun hanging out with everyone this season.

Give it up to the Celts. it looked like the ref's were gonna help the p's and they came back. the P's couldn't take advantage.

Pretty sad ending. Boston deserved to win. Congratulations to the Celtics.

Blame Flip all you want, but I think that quarter made it clear that this team can't get over the hump without some real changes across the board. Maybe they do need a different coach, but this group of players is obviously not good enough to make the Finals again.
I replied to an email from Matt Watson @ DBB this week, mentioning that Flip has finally figured out how to coach in the playoffs, but he'll probably be fired.

Go figure. Tonight was very disappointing. Dice, Rip and CB were the only vets who showed any heart. Sheed was an absolute embarassment, and Tayshaun has to go. This is the second year in a row that he has come up empty handed in the conference finals. And it's not just missing shots, but being passive and playing scared on defense.

But Sheed has to go. I'd keep Dice. He's expensive, but he has another good season in him yet. Unless he wants a trade that is.

End of an era. I have an awkward feeling of relief and disgust.

Their D was just too bad in the end. Don't let the score fool you, that is late in the series talking on the scoreboard. The C's got too much penetration and too many easy shots in the end. Like watching them play the Big Ben Bulls, DET was chasing all night long. Pierce got whatever he wanted. DET would bust their ass to get a 2 point lead and BOS would score within 10 seconds.

Game 2! Game 2!! Game 2!!!

They took the game away in the 4th. Sheed and Tay really didn't show the energy or intensity needed. Their shooting was horrendous. We had those guys by ten. Time for LaDre to put some Piston Players on the fishing boat. Start with Tay, Sheed, and Lindsey...........:)

I can already see flips press conference

"We had some good looks"
"Our shots weren't falling"
"We weren't hitting shots"...

I also think the better team won. Early in the season, it was supposed to be the big 3, and some other guys. Clearly they put together a good TEAM. They consistently had other guys step up and make plays. This may be their only year for a shot, however, as their age showed through the playoffs. Whatever happens this year, the Lakers will be scary next year with a healthy Bynum.

I feel the worst for McDyess. He doesn't deserve this. You could argue, though, that he was closer with this team than he ever was before.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/strifepoge/hehe.jpg

Again, if this team would have won after giving a 100% effort, I would have nothing to get angry about.

Someone tell me, how could the two players (Rip and CB) who were supposed to be injured, be the only players to show up at an elimination game, at home?

Sheed`s antics has run it`s course. He was done after the game on Wednesday night. The Celtics were clearlly in his head and took him totally out of his game.

Tay is very inconsitent, he is the one Piston that other teams would show some interest in, along with Rip, but I wouldn`t trade Rip.

What a puzzling team this is, changes must be made, immediately!

Why is everyone feeling so sorry for dyess. He had a bad game. Feel sorry for the fans, who get the hearts broken for 3 straight years.

Are there chat's for the Summer League? They'll be stacked if Stuckey and AA play.

Dice was closest in 2005.

I feel really bad for him. But then I remember, I don't have a title or $8 million dollars in income this year.

So I feel a little sorry for me too. :)

somebody should update team's salaries. NOW they are everybody's interest.

I hve the same feeling i had when we were bounced out the playoffs in the teal days. NOTHING!! A piston fan? Yes! A basketball purist? Even more. There was nothing Flip did in the last 3 years to show me HE would coach this team to a Finals.

1. Flip gone. Replaced by Porter, Curry, Hunter, and Cowens, hopefully.

2. Prince, Sheed, or Dice may be gone. I'd like to see Prince as that 6th man that I think he is.

3. Next year will be last for Hamilton.

4. Will still win Central.

Let the Piston eulogy begin...Flip now 0-3 in getting to the finals with the Pistons and 0-4 all together. In other words for the 4th time in his career he was not able to win game 11, and finish losing 4-2

8 pt lead at the end of the 3rd and they come out an lay an egg similar to what they did in game 3. and on their home floor. Even the Hawks and Cavs defended their court and our chokers sheed could not get the job done. All the hoopla about Rip's arm was a ruse as he and Billups carried the team in the first half with 31 of the Pistons 37 points.

Tay was awful in the first half but came alive in the second, except for falling asleep and letting Posey still that pass that basically ended the Piston season.

Dice only took three shots????? WTF was he doing that he couldn't get open???

Sheed ^$%##$$% he should have got 2 T's in game 5 so he could have sat out this one... Maybe he didn't like to be called out by Rip and Hunter about the Hugging Garnett issue.


tonights meaningless stat > Celtics 38 pts in the paint, Pistons 11

The better team won this series. It's not what we wanted, but it was fun hanging out with everyone this season.

Yeah, and loves to yall, loves to Roscoe and loves to the whole PF.com administration. Wow it's summer holiday.

Just can't believe the Pistons up by 10 in the 4th quarter and they lose this game. The turning point was Maxiell being taken out and Dice coming back in the game. What was Flip thinking? Sheed was a big distraction tonight with all the players holding their breath to see if he was going to pick up his 7th technical. Joe Dumars does have some work to do but the core of this team is still solid and the upside the Pistons have young talent that will get their chance.

Flip Saunders refusing to play some of his better chess pieces (Amir, Affalo and Jarvis) is the nail in his coffin. The Celtics didn't exactly play much of their youth either (Big Baby, Leon Powe) but they have hungry vets that have never tasted this level of success before. The starting line-up of the Pistons just don't play with that fire in their eyes and hunger because it's hard climbing up that mountain every year especially if you've been to the top once before.

The player the Pistons should trade is Sheed, he's a high chip player because he plays great D and is a fiery player even with his propensity for Ts.

I bet Joe Dumars is going to have a busy summer fielding calls and making some deals.

I'm strangely relieved. I learned today that the Celtics were a better team this year. Incontrovertible evidence. The refs helped out the home team so much, it was unreal. And the Pistons couldn't do it. Rip was not injured, CB was not injured, noone was injured. The TEAM was not good enough. Congrats to the Celtics. They kept their composure and battled in the trenches.I thought I hated the Celtics, but after seeing their players' reactions after winning, I hate them less. They REALLY wanted to win, and the Pistons didn't.

i still hate the media for ramming Lakers-Celtics down our throats the whole season. Scott Van Pelt made comments after the game about tv execs celebrating, as if he wasn't one of those responsible for the hype machine, then a few minutes later, he practically swoons about how amazing it is that the Celtics are in the Finals. That bugs the heck out of me. Still I can't decide who I want to see win the whole thing. It's gonna take me a while to decide. It's been great to see you all in here this season. It's going to be an interesting off-season!

GO PISTONSFORUM.COM!!!!!!!!!!!!

somebody should update team's salaries. NOW they are everybody's interest.
You're nominated. PM me with the updates. :) ;)

I hve the same feeling i had when we were bounced out the playoffs in the teal days. NOTHING!! A piston fan? Yes! A basketball purist? Even more. There was nothing Flip did in the last 3 years to show me HE would coach this team to a Finals.

Yeah, I feel the same way, but I don't think I feel that way this time because of Flip. Losing to an inferior team in the playoffs is fair game for blaming the coach, generally speaking, but this time it's clear that the entire package--players and coach--just wasn't good enough.

Just want to say I HATE FLIP!

Not that I am the only one or anything like that I just need to vent to someone who cares (the wife and kids just don't get it).

Also how the hell do we come out of a time out in the fourth send the ball straight to Sheed for a 3 ball when he is shooting what 20%?


Max - edit. Its ok to vent, just keep it clean.

Yeah, and loves to yall, loves to Roscoe and loves to the whole PF.com administration. Wow it's summer holiday.

GO PISTONSFORUM.COM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks brothers. :D

Well. Before the post-season I did not think we could beat the Celts. After seeing how they melted down on the road I started to believe. Give them some credit, they grew as a team this series ( Pistons seem to have that knack ) and found ways to win on the road.

Our frontcourt was exposed. And I can't undertand how Maxiel saw such limited mins in these final 2 games after how great he was playing. With Sheed becomming more of a distraction it was pretty much up to Dyess to make up the difference.

Changes definetly need to be made. No doubt about that. I thought last year changes would be made and they were not, this time I think Dumars has to. We just cannot win with this core anymore.

Plus side.

We still have Stucky.
Amir should play.
Most of the players are still young.
New coach - Flip is in the final year of his contract. Its time to extend him or cut him, what do you think Dumars will decide?

We can still be competitive and will be competitive next yeat but its time for Dumars to dig into his old bag of tricks and pull off something that will put us over the top again.

i still hate the media for ramming Lakers-Celtics down our throats the whole season. Scott Van Pelt made comments after the game about tv execs celebrating, as if he wasn't one of those responsible for the hype machine, then a few minutes later, he practically swoons about how amazing it is that the Celtics are in the Finals. That bugs the heck out of me.

Yeah, ain't that the truth. These bloviating windbags act like they're not the ones creating all the hype in the first place!

Thank you, forum! It has been funnier than I ever could imagine. Pistons should learn from this forum how to show up every day!

Well, the Celtics choked less than the Pistons and therefore deserved to win the game and the series.

I've been saying all along Celtics in 6 and even after the last Pistons victory, I said we had seen the last victory of the year. I'm not at all surprised, but it sucks, anyhow.

I don't blame Flip for this one game, but I think his coaching methods the entire season brought the team to this point. Well...the team is largely responsible too, of course.

Flip needs to go. Is there a crappy team out there willing to do a two for one? Like two of our starters for one of their studs.

They need to let Max & Amir and Stuckey play lots more next year. There will be growing pains, but it will be a lot of fun to watch.

I really stopped liking this team LONG ago. I don't think you tear up a team that went to the ECF 6 consecutive years, but I think we need a clutch guy.

Go Red Wings and I agree with all those who said it's been fun with you guys. Great insight from the forum members all the time. Some folks will disappear for the summer. Have a great one. I'll be here talking fantasy trash and making Jammer's life as miserable as I possibly can. :MusicBigGrin:

Shout out to Roscoe and moderators/contributors for doing a great job of maintaining and promoting this forum. Even w/ the loss I feel like I have a Piston family sharing the disappointment and future expectations w/ me.

Great job by Joe D for fielding such a competitive team year in year out. Piston fans have nothing to be ashamed of. A few changes and we are good to go.

TO THE FUTURE !!

I knew they were going to figure some way to blow out the game. I didnt want to think about it, but I knew it.

Alright, Lindsey has to retire. And Sheed definitively has to go somewhere else, I dont care where, maybe in a team where being cold-hearted is a plus. Idk if Tay should go, his defensive plays are really good... but he seems to burst and choke in the ECF. Get Sheed or Tay out for a first pick. And the other one for 2 young excellent guys, like Jamario Moon, idk.

Keep Billups, definitively keep Hamilton. Dumars, do what you got to do with McDyess. And... most of all... fire Flip. Really really fire Flip, for ever.

Celtics were always better, because we played at 80%. Thats why they were better, our guys didnt know how to play at their best, or maybe they cant, so lets see some changes.

Which guys would you like to come to the pistons?

Shout out to Roscoe and moderators/contributors for doing a great job of maintaining and promoting this forum. Even w/ the loss I feel like I have a Piston family sharing the disappointment and future expectations w/ me.

Great job by Joe D for fielding such a competitive team year in year out. Piston fans have nothing to be ashamed of. A few changes and we are good to go.

TO THE FUTURE !!

Seconded.

Shout out to Roscoe and moderators/contributors for doing a great job of maintaining and promoting this forum. Even w/ the loss I feel like I have a Piston family sharing the disappointment and future expectations w/ me.

Great job by Joe D for fielding such a competitive team year in year out. Piston fans have nothing to be ashamed of. A few changes and we are good to go.

TO THE FUTURE !!

thirded!

How has Theo survived in this league so long? He makes so many baaaaaad plays....,.
As I was watching Theo a step slow on help, fumbling the ball out of bounds and fouling guys AFTER they make the basket, I was just picturing you seething somewhere! :pound:

The better team won this series. It's not what we wanted, but it was fun hanging out with everyone this season.
Agree 100%.

Go figure. Tonight was very disappointing. Dice, Rip and CB were the only vets who showed any heart. Sheed was an absolute embarassment, and Tayshaun has to go. This is the second year in a row that he has come up empty handed in the conference finals. And it's not just missing shots, but being passive and playing scared on defense.

But Sheed has to go. I'd keep Dice. He's expensive, but he has another good season in him yet. Unless he wants a trade that is.

End of an era. I have an awkward feeling of relief and disgust.
I agree on all counts.

Dice was closest in 2005.

I feel really bad for him. But then I remember, I don't have a title or $8 million dollars in income this year.

So I feel a little sorry for me too. :)
:pound::pound::pound: Well, when you put it like that, heck, I feel sorry for me too!

Sheed ^$%##$$% he should have got 2 T's in game 5 so he could have sat out this one... Maybe he didn't like to be called out by Rip and Hunter about the Hugging Garnett issue.
That was exactly what I was thinking. He just looked like he had given up. Completely distant and disinterested. I know that many people have said that Lindsay mentioning it in his interview was a small deal, but I think that it was completely inappropriate to mention it in public like that. Whether that was a factor in things, I have no idea, but it was unprofessional and counterproductive IMO.

Flip stays........He didn't lose this series. We lost to a better team. The only way we coulda won was to win game 1 with intensity and determination. The players don't bring that consistently and collectively to their jobs any more. Sheed will go this off season. Look for Tay to be offered in trades as well. Joe will make the safe decision and keep Flip. With 235 consecutive sellouts, he wants to keep the BOSS happy.:gun1:

Congratulations to the Celtics (the better team won)...and congrats to Stern getting his marketing matchup.

just getting back from the palace now...at 1:15 AM. i have not read any other posts in this thread, but i promise one last really good hogcap a little bit later, possibly tomorrow.

First, a great, great run by the Pistons. 6 years is a long time in the NBA. I have great respect for our players so I will not criticize any of them.

No, I will not congratulate the Celtics. Why? Because they were constituted out of thin air. It is actually bad for the league. They did it with the Heat but that took two years. They will do it again. Take any bad team and put 2 all stars and a role player (Posey) and you have a shot. Bad.

Our starting unit lacks speed, pure and simple. We are too old at key positions. Our youth is not integrated to mitigate this problem. When we beat the Lakers we were the young kids on the block. This group, while playing the youth more, would still win a bunch of games next year. But we are not at the finals level. Close, very close, but not getting closer...

Sheed and Dyss are 33. That is old for key NBA positions. Only Tay will be younger than 30 in the starting unit. So reluctantly, I have to side for those who say time for a change. We need a young, big body in the worst way. The trick will be to make the change while not sliding down a level. Very hard to do and we may only get one crack at it. A wrong move and we accentuate the decline. Yes, we have youth, but only Stuckey looks like a bonafide star in the making. I think we overate our youth...as most fans do of their teams.

Congratulations to the Celtics (the better team won)...and congrats to Stern getting his marketing matchup.
Absolutely agree d-team, the Celtics were the better team in this series.

Flip stays........He didn't lose this series. We lost to a better team. The only way we coulda won was to win game 1 with intensity and determination. The players don't bring that consistently and collectively to their jobs any more. Sheed will go this off season. Look for Tay to be offered in trades as well. Joe will make the safe decision and keep Flip. With 235 consecutive sellouts, he wants to keep the BOSS happy.:gun1:
I think that Flip had a LOT of help losing this series, but he's far from blameless. He, and a few players, need to go for so many reasons.

I don't really know what to say. Didn't get a chance to read through all the posts so all relevant things were probably said.

I'm just dissappointed. I mean i knew they were going to lose so i don't know why i even feel this dissappointed.

No AA/Amir. Theo still played. Stuck/Linds were taken out for Billups. Tay was never pulled. PP shot 8-12.

Sheed looked like he was trying to play without emotion in fear of a technical and looked tight. Tay looked not only tired, but scared.

Flip looked like his usual self. He abandoned the rotation that brought so much success all year, and coached like a p . . . word i wont use right now. Everything we supposedly worked on this year down the drain. The bench became a hinderance instead of an asset it has been b/c outside of Stuckey, and Max who inexplicably got his PT taken away, the wrong people played.

If Flip is fired, then i guess this loss will be somewhat worth it. He's just not right for this team. He got outcoached by Doc Rivers. That alone shoulkd make him re-think his coaching career.

I didn't watch any post-game. I don't think i want to.

We need a new coach. Flip is just watching a different game than everybody else. I've never seen someone with no feel and perception of anything that's going on on the court. And we need to trade Dice. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but he's just taking away time from the young bigs that have to play, and he can probably get us something of value after his performance in the ECF's.

Something went on behind the scenes before this game. This team just did not look right tonight.

This kind of shoots holes in the theory we win with our guards.

CLE/ATL took BOS to 7 games with their defense. I miss the days when we had that to fall back on . . .

CLE/ATL took BOS to 7 games with their defense. I miss the days when we had that to fall back on . . .

When we had LB even if the Pistons went ice cold like they did at the end they still could have shut down Boston and pulled out a win. Now there is so much pressure on the Pistons on both ends because their defense was being shredded and nothing was going into the basket.

What is the point of getting a new coach though? If we get a championship level coach would it be too late. Let's assume that the Pistons still have enough in the tank to win it next year. It probably takes longer than 1 year for that coach to pull out a championship. Saying that this team next year will be ready again is foolish. The bench provided much needed energy this year. However, it is the starters who play in crunch time. It is ultimately their energy that wins games. Even if the Pistons had the most energetic bench it would be the starters in the game for the last minutes of the 4th.

I wouldn't mind getting a new coach. The main goal is to win a championship though. Maybe if the Pistons grabbed a new coach 2 years ago or maybe last year that coach might of been able to get us to the trophy again. I think it is too late for that again. 3 straight losses in Game 6 of the ECF's. The Pistons might prove people wrong when they make the playoffs (some said they would not), or when they won in the first round (some said they would not, or when they got back to the ECF's (many said they would not), but they did not get over what they have failed to over the past few years again.

Disappointing

tonights meaningless stat > Celtics 38 pts in the paint, Pistons 11

Story of this team's lives.

What is the point of getting a new coach though? If we get a championship level coach would it be too late.
Flip just isn't the answer here. I don't think that our window is as small as some might suggest. I think that now is the PERFECT time to bring in a new coach.

I do think that at least 1 of our starters needs to be moved though. My first choice would be Sheed. If we move him, we've now moved our oldest starter and have shaken up the core. Tay & Rip are in their primes and CB still has a few solid years left in him.

With guys like Stuckey, J-Max, Amir & Afflalo around, I think we have a great balance of youth and experience and are setup to contend in the East for years to come. What we're missing is a solid SF to spell/push Tay and a legit C - perhaps even one that actually likes to play in the paint.

This team has been consistently 1 or 2 players away from being favourites to win it all for several years now. There's no need to blow everything up and start over and we're nowhere close to needing a rebuilding stage.

Have faith! While the end of our season has been disappointing, I don't think that this season has been a total loss. The development of guys like Stuckey (our CB heir apparent), J-Max (Ben 2.0), Afflalo (Lindsay Jr) and Amir (Darko with heart) is something to get excited about IMO.

So far in all related threads and the DetNews site its 9 to 1 Sheed and Flip have to be moved. One to another team and the other to the curb. Lets make the latter move before the draft and make the former on the draft day trading up to the 5th spot:)

We keep pushing our window open but each time age pushes it closed. When we won the title, I told a friend that the Pistons would be at the top until Ben and Sheed were 33. Well, Sheed is 33. He has slowed noticeably the last few years a bit at a time. He can't guard outside at all. He gets tired, etc.

I think we have our youth overrated as most fans do of their teams. Stuckey will be a star, ok. But our other guys are still low picks, projects, etc. Even Maxiell has never shown that he will get a lot of boards.

The irony of all this is that we are very close to the top. The same team next year while playing the youth much more would win a bunch of games. Fun, but to what purpose? We have been in the finals for 6 years. We are not getting younger to go higher.

Who has a young big that they want to trade us? It will not be easy. And if Joe missteps, our decline will be quicker and even more problematic.

When we had LB even if the Pistons went ice cold like they did at the end they still could have shut down Boston and pulled out a win. Now there is so much pressure on the Pistons on both ends because their defense was being shredded and nothing was going into the basket.

What is the point of getting a new coach though? If we get a championship level coach would it be too late. Let's assume that the Pistons still have enough in the tank to win it next year. It probably takes longer than 1 year for that coach to pull out a championship. Saying that this team next year will be ready again is foolish. The bench provided much needed energy this year. However, it is the starters who play in crunch time. It is ultimately their energy that wins games. Even if the Pistons had the most energetic bench it would be the starters in the game for the last minutes of the 4th.

I wouldn't mind getting a new coach. The main goal is to win a championship though. Maybe if the Pistons grabbed a new coach 2 years ago or maybe last year that coach might of been able to get us to the trophy again. I think it is too late for that again. 3 straight losses in Game 6 of the ECF's. The Pistons might prove people wrong when they make the playoffs (some said they would not), or when they won in the first round (some said they would not, or when they got back to the ECF's (many said they would not), but they did not get over what they have failed to over the past few years again.

Disappointing

I think the window is closed or at least it will be once the Lakers get Bynum back. We don't need a championship coach anymore. Hire Micheal Curry. Let him get a trial run for 2 years. Mix the vets/rookies. Trade a starter. We will still be competitive. It just sucks our opening was wasted with a mediocre coach.

As for the second part, i don't think they have to. If your getting outplayed you sit. Max/Stuckey never should have been replaced.

I'm not pissed (I usually am)...but I am very disappointed. I really thought this squad was good enough to finally get over Flip's 4-2 hump. Guess not.

Flop needs to go. He's not the worst coach in the world, but he's a bad fit for this team, and his "I must play only starters in crunch time" mentality hurts us. It makes us damn predictable. Sheed might be going as well. The backcourt is likely going to stay as is, but that frontcourt needs a change. It's simply too old and slow (in tay's case, young but slow). Trade 'em to move up or trade 'em for someone who can help fill the void. Amir and Arron will need to be given bigger roles next year. I wouldn't mind trading Max either.

FLip is not the one to blame. This roster simply doesn't seem to be strong enough. Under these rules, you need more than one rookie- slasher. Pistons are a pure jump- shooters team and that bites back once the shots ain't falling. In the NBA of these days, you need players who attack the rim and get the call every single time. That's something the Pistons have been lacking since Stackhouse was traded. It hurts, but the Pistons are the new version of the Jazz. 6 conference finals in a row but only 2 finals appearances and 1 ship. Talk about being good, but not good enough.

Flip needs to go ASAP!!

And take Rasheed with you!!

What a pathetic performance in the 4th Quarter last night by Rasheed and Tayshaun last night.

'Sheed, KG keep hands to selves PLAYOFF TICKER | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080531/SPORTS03/805310354/1051/SPORTS03)


Boston's Kevin Garnett and Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace, who met for a controversial hug after Game (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080531/SPORTS03/805310354/1051/SPORTS03#) 5, did not engage in any pregame public displays of affection Friday, according to the Boston Globe.
"They shared a shoulder chuck," wrote Joe Sullivan. "That was it."
That's what we call embracing change.



Did Wallace have the blues or what? He didn't bounce and point to each side of the arena before tip-off, as he usually does. And during his pregame-huddle dance, he simply looked at his teammates.


Wonder what was wrong ??


• Steve Bulpett, Boston Herald, recounting a scene from Game 5: "Rough trip to Boston for Detroit coach Flip Saunders. He was up arguing a call in the third quarter when a Pistons fan sitting just a couple of rows from the court -- yes, a Pistons fan that close -- got on his case. 'Sit down, Flip,' he shouted. 'We don't like you in Detroit, and we don't like you here.'

Ouch.

'Sheed, KG keep hands to selves PLAYOFF TICKER | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080531/SPORTS03/805310354/1051/SPORTS03)






Wonder what was wrong ??




Ouch.

Yikes, some of that is just :cold:. Flipper's not a bad guy, man..now I kinda feel bad for him. And Sheed must not have liked being called out for hugging KG, "the enemy", whether "in jest" or not.

Flip does need to go for not being a good in game coach and lack of better bench integration. But just him leaving will not solve the Pistons lack of a low post player and lack of rebounds issue. Relying on the starting five is not a huge mistake as some make it out to be. The best players have to play at the biggest times and make the plays. Amir and AA may have helped a bit but their lack of PT did not lose this series. The starting five never showed up consistently as a single unit. You will not win hard fought games when only half of your starting unit shows up on any given night. Dice is right, sick of the excuses from the players.

There are some really excellent posts here regarding what went wrong in this series, and what should be done to rectify our weaknesses. Now that the series is over, the analyses are more sober and calmer then some of what was posted after bad games in this round and earlier rounds. But for that reason, the analyses are that much more convincing.

Flip is certainly part of the problem, but of course he is not the entire problem. Game 5 was the killer. A few different substitutions or smart timeouts might have changed the outcome of that game. And if we win game 5, that would have put us in the driver's seat in game 6, and probably changed the outcome of the series. When LB was here, you always got the impression that his mind was working every minute of the game, and he was thinking of every possible way to gain an advantage during the course of a game. A master tactician. You just don't get that feeling with Flip. I think we do need a new coach, and perhaps (as some have suggested) we should promote one of Flip's current assistants.

As many have said, our front line is just too old and slow. Dice and Sheed probably peaked two or three years ago, and are in the decline of their careers. The result is inconsistent performances, and games where they are beaten badly by younger players who are good, but not great (think Perkins vs. Dice in game 5). Some thought Sheed played badly tonight because he was forced to muzzle himself and control his emotions for fear of getting that next technical. That may have been part of it, but the technicals and outbursts have always been a problem that we accepted as a tradeoff for consistent excellent play. It is much harder to accept that tradeoff with a decline in play.

Tay has now shown a pattern the past two (maybe three) ECF finals of struggling badly on the offensive end when he has to guard a premier, slashing type player. It also seems as if his slight build hurts him more in the playoffs, when play near the basket is much more physical than it is in the regular season.

Joe D. seems very high on Amir (he gave him a very good contract to keep him here), but if so why didn't he insist on having Flip play him and develop him more during the regular season, and (related to that) why didn't he insist on more playoff minutes for him, especially in this series when we so desperately needed rebounding help? Joe apparently forced that kind of development of Stuckey by Flip (and the team did a very nice job of that). But why did he not do the same with Amir? Did Joe really fulfill his promise to Amir to give him lots of playing time? I don't think so.

Flip is certainly part of the problem, but of course he is not the entire problem. Game 5 was the killer. A few different substitutions or smart timeouts might have changed the outcome of that game. And if we win game 5, that would have put us in the driver's seat in game 6, and probably changed the outcome of the series.

I think Game 3 was a much bigger problem than Game 5.

Flip just isn't the answer here. I don't think that our window is as small as some might suggest. I think that now is the PERFECT time to bring in a new coach.

I do think that at least 1 of our starters needs to be moved though. My first choice would be Sheed. If we move him, we've now moved our oldest starter and have shaken up the core. Tay & Rip are in their primes and CB still has a few solid years left in him.


Perhaps I am not disappointed because I KNOW changes are going to happen. You are right. It is never good to blow it all up. Just ask the Lakers who were a low playoff tier team and who were about to trade the best player in the NBA before they got Gasol.

If we get a new coach, then I would like to see how Sheed plays under him before we make a trade. If one of the starters do not get moved we need more players off the bench that can legitimately play better than the starters consistently. I think Stuckey has done that under Chauncey this year.

We need a backup for Tay and a coach badly.

The other thing I was thinking about was that the 04 and 05 teams performed at a much higher level than this year's team and really seem vastly superior to this year's team. The dropoff in intensity and execution seems very large, even though the core players are the same.

I think Game 3 was a much bigger problem than Game 5.

Game 3 may have been a bigger problem, but I think it is harder to put that loss on Flip than game 5, unless one believes that it is a coach's job to motivate a team that is three games away from going to the finals to play hard on their home court.

The other thing I was thinking about was that the 04 and 05 teams performed at a much higher level than this year's team and really seem vastly superior to this year's team. The dropoff in intensity and execution seems very large, even though the core players are the same.

That's because we had a huge dropoff in coaching. The Pistons don't have "superstar" players but we had a "superstar" coach. We lost him though.

That's because we had a huge dropoff in coaching. The Pistons don't have "superstar" players but we had a "superstar" coach. We lost him though.

That is certainly a big part of it. And I suppose I should have said that the core is the same except that we had Ben, and had him in his prime. Maybe those are the two biggest factors, along with the age factor for Sheed and Dice (who didn't arrive until the 04-05 season). But there also seemed to be less hunger and less team chemistry this year as compared to 04 and 05.

Tay for Bynum if his knee repairs.
Sheed for one of those Joe Smith guys in Atl.
Flip for a guy that will intergrate AA, Amir, Stuck so we don't lose them in a couple years.

That's because we had a huge dropoff in coaching. The Pistons don't have "superstar" players but we had a "superstar" coach. We lost him though.

Maybe its my age. I still remember the LB who was great at developing players but could never get anything done in the post-season. He did make the Finals that one year with the Sixers but his main competition were the 50 win Bucks who could not even spell the word defense.

04 and LB were a good fit, however his choice to use Darvin Ham over Okur for the simple fact that he had issues with Okur almost ended the run there. In 05 I was not a fan of his 7 man rotation.

Flips problem is the players do not always listen to him. He is a great coach but lacks the deminer to get through to the players, then again we Sheed would be a tough cover for any coach. LB was able to get through but most would not.

Time to move on. I think its safe to say that the Flip experiment is officially over.

That's because we had a huge dropoff in coaching. The Pistons don't have "superstar" players but we had a "superstar" coach. We lost him though.

This is so on point. I was thinking about it the other day, and i think it really was LB that gave us that extra advantage. I mean he would have adjustments to the adjustments that coaches hadn't even made yet. He could adjust in game, game to game. He was what put us over the top, and it didn't matter that we didn't have a Kobe.

We did have a superstar in 04. That was when Ben was still in his heyday and had just won his 2nd straight DPY. Imagine that series if we had the 04 Ben Wallace to neutralize their frontcourt and get us those much needed rebounds.

I hear a lot of people say Flip was not a big part of the problem, but I haven't read from any one on why he should stay. The main reason Flop was brought here 3 years ago was to stabilize the defense while bringing explosiveness to the offense. If he didnt accomplish that, because the players didnt listen or what, it is still HIS fault.

As I said before, Ive been in the Army AND played organized sports and it is so important to have leadership you respect. And you 'want' to FOLLOW and win for.


Flip lost this team sometime around when Ben refuse to go back in the game. And hasnt got them back since....

I replied to an email from Matt Watson @ DBB this week, mentioning that Flip has finally figured out how to coach in the playoffs, but he'll probably be fired.

I don't know if you meant what I'm thinking, but I think I was thinking the same thing last night.

Three years ago against the Heat coming off the 67 win season the refs to a large extent took it away. Gave the ECF to the Heat and then the 'ship. I remember thinking then that the conference finals were not a good test of Flip's ability to coach.

Then last year in the ECF it became clear that things were not right. The defense was totally gone, and the vaulted offense wilted under not very strong pressure.

This year there were some stumbles against the Sixers, but if Philly had played the whole season the way they played the last half they would have been a top four seed so I could forgive that some. Coming into the playoffs they were hot. Things seemed on track again when another year of experience and the addition of Reggie Lewis only managed to make the Magic one game better in the semi's. And then six and out against Boston, who is, at least in my opinion, just a better team. If Allen had found a shooting touch earlier it would have been over sooner.

So, last year was the year to drop kick Flip into the river. Last year was the year to find an adequate backup small forward. Last year was the year to have made sure that some younger legs got some run. But that didn't happen.

This year, the bench got developed (dropped in the playoffs, but still...), starters minutes went down, the team got back a bit to some defense, and unfortunately came up against the best team bargain basement shopping from teams with nothing to lose could buy.

So, will Flip lose his job? I think so. But did his performance this season warrant the boot - maybe not so much. A little more leadership from the top at the end of last season and maybe we'd be rinsing out our jerseys today and getting ready to watch some basketball. Instead, we're going to get to watch another team with another bargain basement player stolen from a team that didn't care play a team with a whole roster of them.

Things may get shook up good in the next month or so, but it will be for the wrong reasons, and more importantly, at the wrong time. Still, change is good for the soul and in a couple of weeks I'm going to be wanting to watch some basketball again.

In an article on mlive it stated that only 1 other team in NBA history has lost in 3 straight conference finals. The 1953-55 Boston Celtics.

So this is kind of unpercidented which helps explain the frusteration we are all experiencing.

Flip does need to go for not being a good in game coach and lack of better bench integration. But just him leaving will not solve the Pistons lack of a low post player and lack of rebounds issue. Relying on the starting five is not a huge mistake as some make it out to be. The best players have to play at the biggest times and make the plays. Amir and AA may have helped a bit but their lack of PT did not lose this series. The starting five never showed up consistently as a single unit. You will not win hard fought games when only half of your starting unit shows up on any given night. Dice is right, sick of the excuses from the players.

I don't know what extent they would have helped but they did give the opportunity to do something different this ECF. Instead the zoo crew was essentially gutted in favor of Hunter and some older vet that we picked up. Same script as the past 2 ECF's really.

I don't know what extent they would have helped but they did give the opportunity to do something different this ECF. Instead the zoo crew was essentially gutted in favor of Hunter and some older vet that we picked up. Same script as the past 2 ECF's really.

The PT for AA and Amir should have been much higher during the regular season, so they would have been better equipped and more trusted for the post-season.

The PT for AA and Amir should have been much higher during the regular season, so they would have been better equipped and more trusted for the post-season.

True, especially Amir - he should have played more. But they did play enough and Afflalo even started a few games for us. Versus Hunter who hardly played at all and Theo who was added late and did not play enough. Maxiel was playing great and was pretty much taken out of the rotation for the final 2 games.

I thought that Flip sort of over matched up with the Celtics that took away from Pistons basketball and what got us there in the 1st place.

Sheed shot 26 3-pointers in the ECF. In 4 out of 6 of the games, he made 0 of them.

In round 1, he shot 29 3-pointers in 6 games. In round 2, he shot 20 in 5 games. So, a total of 75 3-point attempts in 3 rounds of playoff action. Our best 3-point shooter, Chauncey Billups, attempted 11 fewer. Why would a team have a career 34% shooting center/forward take so many 3's when we're getting out rebounded?

Sheed committed 28 fouls against the Celts and was in foul trouble in each of the last 4 games, fouling out once.

He got to the FT line ONCE in the last 4 games of the year!


Where is your big man when you need him? Late for shoot around, no-show for the actual game. I'm so frustrated. At this point, I'm almost ready to let Flip off the hook for the failure.


How come our 2 injured players were our best players?

Why would a team have a career 34% shooting center/forward take so many 3's when we're getting out rebounded?


I think he was out of control, doing whatever he wanted as usual.

Flip is a better coach now than 2 years ago. But he still is not the kind of coach that can sense the flow of the game, make quick adjustments and go with the flow when appropriate.

I just don't see how AA or Amir would have turned the tables on the Celtics. Do I wish they played some? Yes. But the key to our loss is plain old age. No loose balls, giving up offensive boards, etc., most of that came from slowness due to age. These same players were all over the court in 2004. Stuckey played but he wasn't integrated in the starting unit so his impact was not overpowering.

What if we had a young big like Hortford or Smith to throw into the mix. Or a young Ben Wallace. The story would be different.

Flip is a better coach now than 2 years ago. But he still is not the kind of coach that can sense the flow of the game, make quick adjustments and go with the flow when appropriate.

I just don't see how AA or Amir would have turned the tables on the Celtics. Do I wish they played some? Yes. But the key to our loss is plain old age. No loose balls, giving up offensive boards, etc., most of that came from slowness due to age. These same players were all over the court in 2004. Stuckey played but he wasn't integrated in the starting unit so his impact was not overpowering.

What if we had a young big like Hortford or Smith to throw into the mix. Or a young Ben Wallace. The story would be different.
I'm a little confused. You say you don't see how the young guys could have turned the tables on the Celtics, but you say that the key reason we lost is age. Wouldn't that mean that the young guys could have made the difference?

I'm not trying to argue whether it's true or not that they should have played, I'm just analyzing your statement.

I hear a lot of people say Flip was not a big part of the problem, but I haven't read from any one on why he should stay. The main reason Flop was brought here 3 years ago was to stabilize the defense while bringing explosiveness to the offense. If he didnt accomplish that, because the players didnt listen or what, it is still HIS fault.

Great Post. Lets assume the best case scenario for Flip (he did not do anything wrong)...but what did he do better than LB and Rick Carlisle?

It's a coach's job to help the team win. People should not praise Flip for not making a mistake.

Sheed shot 26 3-pointers in the ECF. In 4 out of 6 of the games, he made 0 of them.

In round 1, he shot 29 3-pointers in 6 games. In round 2, he shot 20 in 5 games. So, a total of 75 3-point attempts in 3 rounds of playoff action. Our best 3-point shooter, Chauncey Billups, attempted 11 fewer. Why would a team have a career 34% shooting center/forward take so many 3's when we're getting out rebounded?

Sheed committed 28 fouls against the Celts and was in foul trouble in each of the last 4 games, fouling out once.

He got to the FT line ONCE in the last 4 games of the year!

Where is your big man when you need him? Late for shoot around, no-show for the actual game. I'm so frustrated. At this point, I'm almost ready to let Flip off the hook for the failure.

How come our 2 injured players were our best players?
I couldn't agree any more with your entire post!

Flip is a better coach now than 2 years ago. But he still is not the kind of coach that can sense the flow of the game, make quick adjustments and go with the flow when appropriate.
I agree with you that Flip is better now than he was 2 years ago, but is still not good enough.

I disagree with you that age was the factor.

Great Post. Lets assume the best case scenario for Flip (he did not do anything wrong)...but what did he do better than LB and Rick Carlisle?

It's a coach's job to help the team win. People should not praise Flip for not making a mistake.
I think that Flip still made plenty of mistakes, but that he made less of them in the playoffs than he did in the regular season, so it seemed like he did a better job of coaching than he really did.

What I mean about the age is often we would make a stop but it took a lot of effort and then we were not quick enough to get the loose ball. Some of the rebounds were of that variety. Or, we would tip the ball away but rarely actually recover it. Who is fast enough to dive on balls in our starting 5? Who is fast enough to make a key rotation?

Look at it from this angle. Who is playing this late in the playoffs with the center and power forward at age 33? Or, who has essentially no players in the starting line up under 30? (Tay is 29).

When we took the Lakers, the Wallaces were 28, Billips 26, Rip 25 and Tay 24. Wow! What a difference!

Yes, we have youth. Stuckey is the guy but has played 1/2 a year and is not really integrated with the starters. So not a big impact. Maxiel has trouble boarding and another high pick. Amir and Afflalo are high picks who have yet to show they can really produce at a finals level and at any rate, are not integrated into the lineup/rotation.

I think we finally have to break up our starters. I hate to say it. We will win a bunch of games as is. But I can't project this team into the NBA finals a year older still.

What I mean about the age is often we would make a stop but it took a lot of effort and then we were not quick enough to get the loose ball. Some of the rebounds were of that variety. Or, we would tip the ball away but rarely actually recover it. Who is fast enough to dive on balls in our starting 5? Who is fast enough to make a key rotation?

Look at it from this angle. Who is playing this late in the playoffs with the center and power forward at age 33? Or, who has essentially no players in the starting line up under 30? (Tay is 29).

When we took the Lakers, the Wallaces were 28, Billips 26, Rip 25 and Tay 24. Wow! What a difference!

Yes, we have youth. Stuckey is the guy but has played 1/2 a year and is not really integrated with the starters. So not a big impact. Maxiel has trouble boarding and another high pick. Amir and Afflalo are high picks who have yet to show they can really produce at a finals level and at any rate, are not integrated into the lineup/rotation.

I think we finally have to break up our starters. I hate to say it. We will win a bunch of games as is. But I can't project this team into the NBA finals a year older still.
So you think the problem is that our starters are old, and even with a young bench, we can't overcome that problem? That's probably a valid argument.

The PT for AA and Amir should have been much higher during the regular season, so they would have been better equipped and more trusted for the post-season.

Which is what most of us were begging for all year.

Celtics forward Paul Pierce, on how the Pistons (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080601/SPORTS03/8060