Detroit Pistons at the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets

8:00 pm Eastern
TV: WB20 / NBA League Pass
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

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~~Comments on the game?~~

Darko.

(Just thought I'd mention it in a game day thread before somebody else does. He has nothing to do with the game anyhow, so why wait until it begins to discuss his impact?)

***rolls eyes***

I don't even think there is enough left in this dead horse to fill a single bottle of Elmer's glue.

KC? you mean OK City right. They were selling out there. Had to hurt to leave such a hungry Bball pop.

KC? you mean OK City right. They were selling out there. Had to hurt to leave such a hungry Bball pop.
Fixed. Leave the Canadian alone. :mad:

I here they gotta do some work in Baton Rouge. Almost as bad as the Saints.

David West is gonna torch us.

Well the Pistons got sweep By a Utah team that just refuse to lose to the Pistons. One thing I like to look at is how we the forums react after the lose and it got me thinking and it changes my oringinal thought I had for this day. I was going to talk more about the schedule and how the 70 win talk was just to early and will not happen. I even picked them to go 44-10 for 2006 leaving their record at 68-14. I will stick with that they may come a couple short because of the league leading 12- back to backs till the end of the season.

Now how do we react after a loss is amusing at best but as I read this board for the last 2 days i see a lot of problems the Pistons have and trades they must make. now that we are 31 games into the season we see that the same things are happening as far as the bench and starters are concerned. In the papers today Flip brought up a situation that I agreed with is that subs should be a timed thing not a game situation feel. THe Utah game saw Ben and CB not sitting for the whole 2nd half and OT which may had something to do with the outcome(maybe). Flip said starting tonight they will rotate more on a clock rotation which gives the bench players a better fell of the game and what is expected.

As time changes there are more things that stay the same. WE now know that Darko will not play and any talk of him playing is saucey banter. We know that trade talks are always going to be a part of this team because it is a fade sort of speak(it happens every year) but when you look at the Pistons team the bench is still the same as last year, the only diference I feel is that it can get better without any major trades. The players just need more time to gel and with the record they have it allows time for that.

The last thing even though the Pistons still have the best record they are still being pushed by two teams out west for best overall record with the Mavericks and Spurs. They have a huge game this week with the Spurs and I perdicted a close lost wich would put the Spurs next to the Pistons with the best record. That makes tonights game with the Hornets very important even though I think they will win it will be a tough road game because the Hornets play their best ball at home. They have already beaten the Spurs, Heat, and Suns at home so the Pistons have to take care of business or they can lose. Pistons 101-89:P

I am going to the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One of my members just called with tickets. It's going to be a 7 hour drive from KC, but well worth it.

PastF, I'll pray for you.
Pistons 90
Hornets 82

Right on Pastor!! I'll tell Flip to coach for a win instead of a loss like the last time. We gotta help out the REAL fan base. haha

Chris Paul is out, this game shouldn't be a struggle at any point. I expect them to lead the entire game.

i want defense.

We lucked out with Chris Paul being hurt, Kirk Snyder will have to step up, yeah right. On a serious note, with Paul in the game, the Pistons would be in trouble, this is a well balanced team, up and coming young team. Without Paul, you have to wonder how well their O will be run. However, unlike Flip, their 2nd unit guys have gotten PT, so Snyder shouldn't be too bad.

Rip and CB should absolutely abuse Snyder and Speedy, but we need to stop Speedy and his dribble penetration. Sheed and Ben need to get there acts together, if PJ Brown and David West combine for anything more than 30 and 15, Ill be real upset.

Bottom line, our first real "Gut Check" game, we lose with the starters playing 38+ min per, expect Flip to get a real talking to from Joe, especially if we have another 4th quarter collapse.

BTW, Evans has no business in this game, there is not one player, except maybe Kirk Snyder, that he's capable of guarding.

Free Darko

OK men, time to leave hotel and go to game, but I will have to stay night over because of snow in KC.

Flip just said on WDFN that they are expecting Chris Paul to play.

Idle thoughts on Carlos Arroyo...
I think he would be a superstar in Europe or South America where the speed of the game is equal or less than his abilities... he has all of the skill level required...
Unfortunately the speed of this league is one notch higher and he has a hard time keeping up with these gaurds.
Interesting that he played so much with the starters tonight (showcasing?).... this certainly shows the difference between playing against starters or reserves.

is playing too many minutes. he shouldn't come into the game before delfino. he isn't bringing it on d and that's what he was supposed to be brought in for. he's also a non factor on offense.

idle thoughts on arroyo. people are too hard on him defensively. none of our guards are stopping penetration. chris paul and claxton are too fast for all of our guards that are currently active.

is playing too many minutes. he shouldn't come into the game before delfino. he isn't bringing it on d and that's what he was supposed to be brought in for. he's also a non factor on offense.



oh. i think i know what flip is doing is must be using a delfino 1 game and evans the next game rotation. that way they don't have to share minutes they can play lots of minutes 1 game and sit out another game.

It's sad to see our bench play such small minutes to the hornets we finally held a pf in check tonight though pj brown 3 points:whoo:

Yes, the game was played in Oklahoma. I got absolutely no love for the people of Oklahoma so greedily looking at another city's team. What if it was us? Big quake or something. Another city, in another state, hosts the Pistons for a time. Would you want that city to keep our team?

Ok, the big story seems to be Carlos Arroyo. Anyone who knows there NBA basketball would not imagine Arroyo could guard Speedy Claxton all that well, which is why I would like to see Acker involved some. I think we could have used him in this game.

But Arroyo kept us right in their with good, solid play on the offensive end. That first turn, believe it or not, was not his fault. The announcers did not want to embarrass the guy who missed the play. That should have been an Evans dunk, but Evans pulled up on the play. Next, you got a turn with Arroyo trying to feed Rip posting up. Gee, trying to feed a guy posting up is a good thing. You don't always feed the post though, as the other team surely does not want you to. One of the best steals guy in the league, Chis Paul, stol the pass. So what. I would still want Arroyo to attempt to feed Rip right there. Now, the pass to Ben, that was a bad pass. Not that the pass was not thrown perfectly, just that Ben is not yet accustomed to how good at passing the ball Arroyo is. Ben was not ready for the pass. Almost, but not quite.

Now, I see a lot of negative posts on Arroyo occurring from the first half, based on the score. Yet, when Arroyo left Billups with an 8 point lead in the 4th quarter, no props for the guy. Whats up with that.

Arroyo nailed a couple of threes. Not too surprising. Of late, he has been starting to work on his range in the games. In his full year with Utah, he made plenty of threes, at a 33% clip. Not great, but certainly acceptable.

And finally, the bump. Not much of a bump. More like incidental contact. Man, I have seen a whole lot worse. But I won't say get rid of Sheed for his temper, neither will I say get rid of Arroyo for his. Instead, I will just choose to love the competitiveness.

I won't comment too much on Evans play. He did not do much. Two steals, one a pick the ball up kind of steal where someone else knocked the ball away, and another early 4th quarter that was quite helpful. He alertly cut in and got a dunk. He got burnt by Paul, but Paul of course is much to fast for him. One missed defensive rotation I caught, and that blown offensive play. Who knows what reviewing the tape will find.

Surprisingly, Delfino did not play in this game until garbage time, and even only then because CB fouled out in the last minute. Matchups maybe? N.O. has some real quick guards. I am guessing Flip felt he needed another guard vs. a small forward in this game. Now, Flip has stated he is going to start playing his bench minutes just to get them minutes so they can get comfortable. Does this mean Evans will not play next game but Delfino will get major burn?

Rip was, well, on fire. Nailing shot after shot coming off his curls. 30 points. Dependable. Good word for Rip. He has been averaging around 20 points a game for us from the day we got him in the Stack trade. Seldom a whole lot more than 20, and seldom a lot less. Got to love him.

CB delivered a 3 dagger late. Then Sheed further buried them with another 3. I am glad the game did not stay tight at the end, cause frankly, my heart can't take that much excitement. This was one very exciting game to watch. I pegged this team to not make the playoffs, but to play near 500 ball this year. Now, I see one of their rooks is struggling, but who knows, he too might get his act together like Paul surely has. Could be quite a team by years end.

Tay was involved in the offense quite a bit. Hit a three. Another outside shot. Went inside some. Lost the ball twice going inside. Between him and Rip we had a lot of mismatches over their guards. Tay picks and chooses when to get involved, but he is absolutely shooting enough to work on his game. Make the outside shot, force them to cover you. Drive them. Standard NBA stuff. Great to see Tay develop his game before our eyes.

Sheed did some work down low in this game. Hit a midranger. Played solid D. Usual. Ben played great D, swatting Paul 3 times. Rook got to learn. Ain't those No Fly Zone signs posted clearly enough?

Dyess hit at least one shot, maybe 2? Kind of invisible for the most part. CB hit a shot here and there, got to the line here and there. Not a ton of scoring, and he was in foul trouble partly due to a pair of somewhat boneheaded offensive fouls. Bad enough he had Speed and Paul to defend. PS, note, when the other team goes small, like they did with Speedy and Paul in together, we are just fine, cause Rip can guard speedy points better than anyone on our team. Got to appreciate that versatility on defense from him.

fyi, Tay played point for the one minute Delfino played, not Delfino.

Scoring line. Basically, this game stayed close, a real heart thumper, until the end of the 3rd. We had an 11-2 run with Arroyo on the floor and took a 10 point lead. Arroyo's 2nd triple, off glass this time, sure helped. His 2nd last second triple of the game. OK,going to check out the boxscore. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Seems to me this is the second time Arroyo has blown his cool. How many times we gotta tell him...YOU DON'T ATTACK REFS!:frusty: Especially before a game against the reigning WORLD CHAMPS!:frusty: :frusty:

I'm beginning to think shopping Arroyo might not be such a bad idea. It's bad enough to witness all the "blow-bys," and missed shots (despite the two lucky threes he hit tonight). On top of that the Arroyo Fan Club is doing for Arroyo what the DHOF club did for YKW.

Anybody notice the look Sheed and Rip gave Arroyo (4th Q) when Claxton(?) blew by him for an easy layup?:mad:

Wonder what Joe is thinkin right about now?:eyebrows:

Rip played the point once CB was also fouled out.

Wow, it's an Arroyo bloodbath over at detnews. He was efficient in one area tonight: 6 fouls in 14 minutes.

Arroyo is garbage. Flat out. 6 fouls, 4 turns, 1 ejection, and 1 (likely) suspension in 14 minutes. If he hadn't hit those prayer (lucky) triples I would kick him off this team immediately. Just awful. We need a legit backup point guard if we want to win a ring this year. Flat out. We need a lindsey hunter with a jumpshot to come in behind Chauncey.

Well, one upside of the probable suspension of Arroyo is that we may get to see Acker play for the first time this season.

i saw the same problems in opponents cutting in easily, and the bad rebounding in the first half. in the second half the team locked them down. they lost the board war 33-39, but they got the boards when they needed to. rasheed shot ugly from 3 he was 2-9, but he hit 2-3 in his last 3 attempts which were all huge makes. the pistons were outscored in the paint 42-28, but when lindsey comes back he won't get taken like arroyo does.

is playing too many minutes. he shouldn't come into the game before delfino. he isn't bringing it on d and that's what he was supposed to be brought in for. he's also a non factor on offense.

idle thoughts on arroyo. people are too hard on him defensively. none of our guards are stopping penetration. chris paul and claxton are too fast for all of our guards that are currently active.

chauncey did much better stopping them then arroyo did, and i'm sure lindsey will too.

Pistonloyalist - yes we may see Acker play but I would guess the more likely scenerio would be activating Hunter early. He is supposed to comeback Monday.

I thought Arroyo got shafted with that incidental contact. Thats all I saw. Arroyo seemed to just step into the ref as the ref stopped and turned. But he did make contact so technically the league will have to look at it.

Pastor Flourney - did you make it? Seemed like a pretty good stadium - have to love the organ. Pistons brought that back on one of the retro nights last season.

Lee - I don't think NOR was drawing much interest the past 2 years wheras OAK has had mostly sellouts. I do see your point though. Back when the Pistons were drawing 14,000 a night the same thing could have been said if something happened here. But we have the history and they don't. In Oaklahoma its a novelty. Still fair is fair. The owner originally chose NOR and thats what Stern approved. If OAK is the better bball city then they should have done more research before selecting NOR as the place to move to from Charlotte.

On the Pistons D:

Let's just face it. Our defense sucks this year, unless its the 4th quarter. The blow bys, the missed assignments, bad postition, failure to challenge shots....if you haven't noticed the entire Pistons team is guilty of this behavior so far. Evans is not the only offender...Lee. Defense is effort. ..and our effort in the first couple quarters is progressively getting worse. We played our best ball at the beginning of the season. Notice how our point differental is decreasing. Each game we grow in Flip's system, the defense takes a step back apparently. All one has to do is look at tape from last year versus this year and you can see that there is virtually no energy being given on the defensive end..most of the time. No fighting through screens, no help defense and terrible positioning.

Hopefully, this improves because this level of play will not get it done against the Spurs in the NBA Finals. We will not just shoot them out the building for 4 games like we have done all of the rest of the teams in the league this year.

evans actually looked like he's been working on his footwork

I have some mixed emotions about my first Live Piston's game. I do understand now what people mean about how watching the game in person gives you better view of whats going on (I.E. people not making effort when the camera is not on them.)

Things I Loved-

1. Rip Hamilton- He goes %100 all the time. He is the greatest mid range shooter in the game IMO. If this team was the Bad Boys he would have to be JD. Why Isaiah (i.e. Chauncey) gets the bulk of the attention he quietly has just as big of an impact. If he ever gets past the Bowen Barrier he will dominate.

2. Antonio McDyess – This guy is solid and on any other team would be putting up 15 points 8 rebounds even if he came off the bench. He seems to be back in his grove, and ready to contribute in a big way.

3.Tayshaun Prince- This guy has the ability to create a mismatch most every night. I would like to see him get more involved like he did some last year. However, he had 12 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assist.

4. Carlos Arroyo- Yeah, I know he has been heavily criticized on this board for his ejection and yes it will hurt if he is suspended. However, at least he showed some enthusiasm.(See things I hate below) and he didn’t get burned on defense no worse then the rest of the guards but at least he cared enough to foul them.

5. Oklahoma City Fans- These fans are not just fans of the NBA, but they are Hornets fans. I know people say they are wrong if they keep the team in OK City but that is not their call but the teams and NBA. If they are coming out to support them, then they have every right to keep them there. All of these pro teams wanted out of NO because of lack of fan base, why should they be held where fans in general (not all but many) don’t appreciate them and they will make much less profit. If you owned a company and you had a chance to make a lot more money would you not take that opportunity or would you feel you had to stay because of a storm you had no control over? Some would go, some would stay, but it’s not fans fought either way.


Things I Hated

Offensive rebounding- It seemed to me everyone was ready to run down the court to try to score before the ball ever hit them rim. I don’t know if the bright lights of more points have got in there way but, someone besides Big Ben has to rebound.

Pistons Effort most of the night- It seems that they are conserving energy for the playoff’s by not locking down, but when they have to. When they needed to play better D they were great. However, they continued to let people grab offensive boards and drive to the lane at will. I believe this is why that in their 5 losses they have been destroyed by almost 15 points a game. Why they are resting other teams are scorching them, and by them time they turn it on it is to little, to late. The bottom line is you should never take a play off and cheat the fans who spend the hard earned money to come watch you make millions playing a game.

Sheed’s misguided offensive aggression- He is shooting more shots like we need him to do, just in the wrong place. I have no problem with him shooting three’s in fact it is one of our main weapons but cut down on the three attempts and take “some” of those inside.

Flips Bench Rotation-:puke:
***However, it was the greatest sporting event of my life seeing my Pistons in the flesh

On the Pistons D:

Let's just face it. Our defense sucks this year, unless its the 4th quarter. The blow bys, the missed assignments, bad postition, failure to challenge shots....if you haven't noticed the entire Pistons team is guilty of this behavior so far. Evans is not the only offender...Lee. Defense is effort. ..and our effort in the first couple quarters is progressively getting worse. We played our best ball at the beginning of the season. Notice how our point differental is decreasing. Each game we grow in Flip's system, the defense takes a step back apparently. All one has to do is look at tape from last year versus this year and you can see that there is virtually no energy being given on the defensive end..most of the time. No fighting through screens, no help defense and terrible positioning.
i beg to differ. our defense sucks until the 4th quarter in most games bacause the pistons if there is one thing bad about them is that they don't try until they need to. you saw against san antonio they wanted to win bad, and that they needed to play good D against a good team so they shut them down. yesterday the team sucked the first half so they picked up the effort the 2nd half. when lindsey comes back there will be a lot less penetrtion, and i think the rebounding will get better. rip said that the other guys tried to help ben on the boards in the second half because they can't expect him to get all the board. i think our gaurds will try to help on the boards from now on.

i beg to differ. our defense sucks until the 4th quarter in most games bacause the pistons if there is one thing bad about them is that they don't try until they need to. you saw against san antonio they wanted to win bad, and that they needed to play good D against a good team so they shut them down. yesterday the team sucked the first half so they picked up the effort the 2nd half. when lindsey comes back there will be a lot less penetrtion, and i think the rebounding will get better. rip said that the other guys tried to help ben on the boards in the second half because they can't expect him to get all the board. i think our gaurds will try to help on the boards from now on.

I'm not a big fan of Russian Roulette 4th Quarter Defense.

The result is tired legs eventually leading to injury and an undeveloped bench. I am not inclined to rely on our offensive consitency to win the big one. Lax defense begets bad habits. I would hate to see a bad habit developed during the year show itself in the playoffs. Defense is effort and like Ron Harper said early in the season, the difference between a dynasty and a traditional championship team is simply bringing it every night. If we can't bring 48 mins of mayhem then we need to bring in substitions that can keep the intensity high. I pray that the return of Lindsey will bring us back to playing championship defense because history has exposed offensively propelled teams with bloated regular season records.

yeah i hope lindsey can somehow get the benches team defense better. arroyo gats taken to the rim a lot and then thew bigs have to get out of rebound position to help.

Flips Bench Rotation-:puke:

What's wrong with it? Our bench might suck, but I don't think it has a whole lot to do with the rotation.

We have quite a few players on our bench that can be great role players but they must be given consistent playing time. CD, CA and ME have no clue what kind of PT they are going to get from game to game. We must also begin to get some rebounding help from Darko or Dale Davis or we are going to be just like the redwings were many times “Great” regular season and a very disappointing post season. The thing that makes me nervous about their play now is after 82 games it may become second nature.