Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Jan 5, 2010.
Nate is Iverson with bigger muscles, fewer years, and less basketball smarts.
He would certainly be a lot more valuable to contending teams and thus much easier to move.
That Hamilton contract extension is such a head scratcher. I think it's Dumars' second worst move in his tenure as Pistons' GM, right behind the Darko blunder.
No need to 'Skip to my Lou' when you have a 'Freight Train' sir!
This season is why I have no faith in letting the young guys play and 'seeing what they can do.' This is also why I don't wage war on any player over the age of 29 as if he was geriatric and hurting our chances.
I'm hoping we don't have 7 years or more of this left as we could easily go back to the Teal Era when NO ONE wanted to play in DET (kind of the case now). As an organization, we don't appreciate players who perform above and beyond, nor do we reward them when they do. They are simply disposable pieces that can be replaced at a whim the minute their contracts expire. As fans, in general, we get so hyped up about the 'next best thing' that we often toss out the gems we already have.
I would think it hard to argue that anything we have (Big Ben excepted) in the paint right now is better than a 34 yr old Rasheed Wallace and addition by subtraction rarely works. All that huffing about getting rid of him will make things better hasn't really panned out as we are clearly reaping the benefits of not getting any techs. Officials show us an unprecedented amount of respect.
We never properly worked a new starting PG into place, we are overstocked at SG, understocked at PF, and playing by committee in the lane. It's not even that any of our bigs are the worst in the league, however, none of them distinguishes themselves from anyone else save Jerebko and he clearly isn't equipped to tangle with the best the league has to offer in the lane. We need to be making moves for talent, not just 'bang for the buck' or cap flexibility.
Injury has decimated this season so far and we're almost left with playing .750 basketball just to even think about the playoffs. The funny thing is, for all the bargain hunting and foreign projects, we seriously overpaid for the FA talent we're getting limited results from. People will allow you one horrid season to get things together. After that, you quickly become also-rans and laughing stocks.
It's clear that coaches will avoid this city like the plague and the coaches that do want to come here (Laimbeer) are refused for some inane in-house logic about what constitutes a worthy candidate (Clearly M. Curry knows the formula). I seriously hope Joe has something up his sleeve because it looks like his magic might be wearing off.
Wouldn't Rip's extension be OK if we wouldn't have signed Ben Gordon behind him?
I would have kept Rip, kept Afflalo, kept Amir, let Maxiell expire and used the FA money for next year.
We'd have $11M in cash for not signing Ben Gordon (less Afflalo's $1M contract) = $10M cash.
We'd have $5M in cash from Maxiell's expired contract
We'd have $3.7M in cash from Amir's expiring
We'd have $4.1M from Kwame + $1.3M from Ben Wallace + $1.3M from Atkins + $.8M from Bynum + $3.5M from Oberto.
All in, there would be $30M (less salary cap drop) to spend in FA this summer and we'd have the following players returning:
Tay/ Daye/ Summers
Gotta resign Bynum... assume $3M. $27M left.
Maybe resign Ben W for $3M. $24M left.
That leaves you with:
Tay/ Daye/ Summers
B. Wallace/ Wilcox
+ $24 Million Dollars.
For $24M, our biggest needs would be a center who is better than Ben Wallace and a PG who is better than Stuckey.
Perhaps, but I may have played with the dollars a bit to maybe sign Gordon for less and not sign CV...taking the additional cash to make a run at Bosh.
I think given the choice, I'd still take Max over Amir, but that's just me. I can't say most would do the same. Max's $5M isn't that much in the long run and we still could make a run for a great big man. If Toys is getting $4M...I can't really argue against Max getting $5M. Although when Toys plays, we are actually getting more out of that $4M than we get out of Max's $5M
Just saying that we already had Amir signed and he was set to expire this season. No need to sign a very similar player and then have to find a way to ditch the existing Amir contract.
Maxiell's contract is longer term and restricts our availability. And he's a DNP every few games on a team with a weak collection of bigs.
You make a lot of sense.
So in the spirit of being revisionist, who would these "better than Ben and Stucky" guys be?
Maybe you get one of them through the draft and the other by blowing the entire FA cash wad.
Bosh would have been the obvious choice for a big man. Offensive juggernaut. Tyrus Thomas is going to be a FA.
As far as PG's? I don't really know. Felton, Ridnour, Watson.
Bigs- Yao, Shaq, Chandler, Dirk, Gooden
Other FA's: Wade, Pierce, Allen, Manu, Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, etc.
I'd be down with Bosh.
I can't get excited about any of the other guys.
The ones I'd WANT the Pistons to sign would never come to Detroit and the ones that WOULD come to Detroit, I wouldn't want. (except maybe Joe Johnson).
...Ben Gordon doesn't look so bad after all. I think if Joe could put the right pieces next to him (a ballanced team for starters) his stock could rise big time.
The more and more I think about, the Pistons rebuild needs to be done in the draft. It's getting to the point wher I'm "TANKful" for each and every loss (note: I still root for wins while the games are being played). Trade Rip to a contender for a first-rounder and filler and let's get young and talented.
or we could just go back to denver and say we made a boo-boo and want CB back! They got ty lawson, they can use stuckey or RIP
What the hell is THAT!?!?!
Ben Gordon is one of the only pieces i would be upset about losing. He has more upside than Rip right now. Would like to keep JJ, just because he is a cheap energy player.
Aside from that, we are in much better shape than the teal years because we have some very nice trade pieces. We really do have a lot of good players, they just aren't complimentary. We are a piece or two away from having a very good team.
I prefer this season over the previous two. I'd rather watch young players playing hard than vets mailing it in.
It's hilarious if you ask me. People get too hung up on little things. Having played ball most of my life..that's just a guy being silly during a down period in front of the camera, but I know a lot of people who use that as proof of the "gangsterization" of the NBA...He's just clownin.
Mind you, I'm not saying EVERYONE here is taking it that way.
Actually, my position was that this guy is a joker for dancing around like an idiot after a lopsided loss.
However, I'm not at all sure anymore that this video was actually taken after the loss, seeing as how they are all standing around in warmups, suggesting it is pre-game. Maybe the video was just played after the game.
With that said, from what I've seen of this guy, he seems annoying enough that I'd rather not have him around.
I really don't care much about whether we keep Rip or Ben. Personally, I like both of their games and their attitudes. It's just that it is stupid to waste resources on both of them. What's the point in that? Why did Joe do that?
And I agree with JJ. Any young player who is contributing is worth more than their contract. That was why I felt pained when we dumped Afflalo. Sure, Gordon is better than Afflalo... but not $11M per year better as a backup. Jeez JD.
Oh...don't get me wrong....I think he's all wrong for DET....
Ben Gordon is dissapointing me every night.
Just look out the numbers. Last year he did EVERYTHING better.. every single stat that you look, assists, points, rebounds, shoot %.. everything is going down.
YES.. it's Kuester's fault.
YES.. It's because of the injuries and "all that".
YES.. Last year he play with Derrick Rose, a TRUE POINT GUARD with no ability to shoot the 3, but pretty well passing the ball for the open guy and "all that".. and this year he is playing with Stuckey, a FALSE POINT GUARD with no abilty to shoot the 3, AAANNDDD pretty bad passing the ball for the open guy and all that.
I think that Ben Gordon will play his best basketball when a General Floor - Point Guard comes to Detroit.
Even with Kuester still in the team I think that with one All-Star caliber Point Guard Ben Gordon will begin to show us how good he is.
It's a shame having guys like him and using them in "the wrong way".
BG's not even making his wide open shots right now. Nothing a "true PG" is going to do about that. He's obviously still out of whack from his injury. He certainly wasn't missing Rose when he was lighting it up pre-injury. (Rose is no Nash/CP3 style PG btw, he gets about 1 assist more per game than Rodney , who plays a lot of 2)
We just need to ditch Rip/Prince, get Gordon worked back into a rhythm, get the rookies back in the game, and the team will actually be headed in the right direction.
For some reason we are stuck on shipping either RIP/Prince out. I think, everyone on this team is expendable, this team is a failed experiment of two years. If CB was expendable so is Stuckey, BenGo, CV, JJ. Yes, I said JJ. Let's not wait until we try to build JJ skills, and move him out of position like we did with Stuckey. JJ has good trade value right now, use it before we loose it. I don't know why we would want get rid of Prince before any of these guys. Prince fits into a solid position/role. Daye can back him up with his clumsiness.
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