[2 of 2] Pistons' WORST move of the offseason

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Aug 14, 2006.

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2006 Offseason WORST Pistons' move

Poll closed Sep 3, 2006.
  1. Losing Ben Wallace to leave in Free Agency

    61.7%
  2. Drafting Will Blalock

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Signing Nazr Mohammed

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Signing Flip Murray

    4.3%
  5. Making Amir Johnson a FA the same year as Chauncey Billups

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Trading Maurice Evans for Cheikh Samb

    2.1%
  7. Inviting former Timberwolf Rick Rickert to tryout

    4.3%
  8. Re-signing Lindsey Hunter and promising him a front office job

    2.1%
  9. Losing Alex Acker to a fat European contract

    6.4%
  10. There was no WORST move

    19.1%
  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    lazy, LeBron James is the biggest offender when it comes to clearing out his man. In many cases, he is allowed to "chuck" him off like a running back delivering a stiff arm. The sick part is when the defender is whistled for being knocked away or run into.
     
  2. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Yes, I have seen LeBron do it, too, but you know who does not seem to do it much?

    Rip and Kobe. I wonder if they are quicker and can get that first step, or if they just never learned to do it.
     
  3. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Too early to tell which was the worst, but I hated losing Ben for nothing, not firing Flip, and resigning Dupree.

    Those three things have me seriously questioning Joe Dumars. What happened to the smart/cunning/ruthless/svelt/OG/GM?

    He now resembles a bumbling overweight middle-aged middle manager in a cardigan sweater who is routinely outgunned and outmanuevered by the younger smarter employees but manages to hang on to his job through blind devotion and loyalty to the Billionaire who runs the company. :P

    Giving away assets and replacing them with cheap substitutes doesn't win in the NBA. This has been a very bad off-season indeed.
     
  4. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Not so much that losing Ben was bad. If a guy wants to go then you can't make him stay. The money just was adding insult to the injury.

    Losing Ben and not getting anything in return. Now that was bad!!!! If we could have gotten something anything for Ben it would have been nice. A legit back up point guard or combo guard or a draft pick. We should have gotten something.:frusty:
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    berbs - Yes I have seen Rip doing it but he gets caught a lot more than the other guys. Typically the refs miss things so anything to gain the advantage. Rules are different for Lebran and Kobe I guess.

    Wonders - Dumars did try for a sign and trade. Chic just was not offering anything he wanted. A sign and trade with another team would have came by the Generosity of Ben Wallace. Either no other team was offering that kind of cash or he really wanted to go to Chicago.

    I have a feeling Ben is going to regret it in a couple of years. He made a quick decision, a lot of it seemed to be emotional with whole Flip thing and whatnot. Did not seem to be a well thought out decision.
     
  6. MaxieltheBeast

    MaxieltheBeast Second Round Draft Pick

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    No brainer that it was losing Big Ben.
     
  7. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Both Ben and Joe had to make some pretty quick decisions this offseason, yeah. Even as a Flip-hater by February, I didn't anticipate things would go this bad...
     
  8. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Agree x 500............it was not just losing ben........it was losing ben and getting nothing in return. no sign and trade, nothing.....look at what the pacers did with peja..........i think ben was very unhappy.........he really stuck it too joe for choosing flip over him.

     
  9. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Marc Stein's assessment of the Pistons' offseason:

    I'd love to join the Better Off Without Ben chorus. But I can't. If the Pistons still had Milicic, perhaps. If the Pistons had signed Bonzi Wells as their Wallace replacement instead of Nazr Mohammed, maybe. But they don't and they couldn't, thanks to an unlikely chain of events.
    The Pistons knew it eventually would be too expensive to re-sign Milicic and Wallace but only consented to trading Darko in February because they believed Big Ben was staying. Yet worse, in my view, was to follow Wallace's exodus: The Pistons quickly signed Mohammed as Big Ben's replacement, only for Wells -- a free agent they loved -- to fall unexpectedly into Mohammed's price range. When Sacramento withdrew its $7 million-a-season offer, Wells was suddenly available for the $5.2 million midlevel exception. But by then, Detroit's emergency fund was gone, robbing the Pistons of an ideal addition to their new 'Sheed-at-center plans.


    Full article: ESPN.com - NBA - Stein: Ranking each East team on its summer moves
     
  10. Gilmango

    Gilmango Second Round Draft Pick

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    Ggazoo beat me to adding the Stein article. For what it is worth he rates Miami's offseason the best and Chicago's the second best in the Eastern Conf. while Detroit came in at 11th (behind NYKnicks).

    I think he hit the nail on the head with losing Ben AND Darko being the crux of the problem. The Darko trade made no sense except that it freed up $ to re-sign Ben without going into luxury tax land. Before making that Darko (and Arroyo) trade there needed to be a real understanding that Ben was going to resign (a signed extension or at least a handshake) and obviously that was not the case. To go from having both of those guys to having Nazr, no PT in the playoffs, Mohammed is just sad.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm just sort of wondering what moves Joe Dumars would make if he could do it over again. Not in drafting, but purely in resigning players vs. letting them go and trades.

    What if we had the following roster right now?

    PG- Billups, Mike James
    SG- Rip, Acker
    SF- Tay, Delfino
    PF- Sheed, Corliss
    C- Okur, Darko

    3rd team- Dale Davis, JMax, Amir Johnson, Lindsay Hunter

    Our total salary for 2006/07 would only be $61.5 Mill, or just under what it is now. There would only be 10 teams with cheaper payrolls and we would have a nice combination of youth and experience.

    I'm sure I'm missing a lot of complexity, but that is why I'm throwing it out there. What would have made this roster impossible?
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Our current salary is $58,349,927 + Webber.

    James wanted money or minutes. His two year deal with Milwaukee was just to create an opportunity for him to get a bigger payday.

    Okur vs. Sheed. Timeless argument. Do you trade Ben Wallace for an expiring deal to keep Okur? That's the only way you create the salary leeway to make it realistic we sign him.

    Darko. At what point was the situation beyond salvaging? With Okur in front, would he have been able to get a long term deal at the price his agent is going to ask this offseason?

    To have that roster right now, we don't use our Mid-Level Exception in 2 out of 3 years. That's very unlikely.

    It's possible when looked at as a whole roster, but unlikely when you consider how many individual decisions would have had to been made to accomplish it.

    I'm not sure that it is better than what we have today. And I'm not sure we make it back to the NBA Finals in 2005 with Okur at center.
     
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    in a heartbeat.

    darko would sign for less to stay with the pistons.

    it is better than what we have now. depending on who the coach is.

    we definitely would have been to the finals in 2005 and won it. we would have went to the finals in 2006 and won it also. big men were are weakness the last couple of years.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I guess what I am trying to assess is how much we are handicapped by being frugal. It seems like we have let some pretty good players go because we would have had to pay them market value.

    Maybe this run from 2003 through now is a bit of a fluke because we stumbled upon players who greatly outperformed their contracts.
     
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Good thinking and assessment should be made. Sooner or later you will pay the price for not having a rotation of players that allow you too adapt. The latter can be ownership, organizational, coaching, and rule changes. One or many in combination can and will make a difference on some clubs.

    Zeke would be a catastrophic coaching mistake as this current organization now stands. Once you start to nibble at the framework and how the organizational pieces behave (reinforcing or pulling apart), you start to think about historical patterns.

    The current last (7) teams per NBA Salary Report:

    (24) Detroit Pistons...........$58,349,927
    (25) Seattle SuperSonics....$57,644,508
    (26) Chicago Bulls..............$54,754,904
    (27) NOK..........................$53,185,473
    (28) Toronto Raptors..........$51,131,694
    (29) Atlanta Hawks............$45,690,622
    (30) Charlotte Bobcats........$38,032,540
     
  16. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    wow I did not think we were that cheap. How much below luxury threshold are we?
     
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    $700,000 more than the Sonics. Nice job Joe, aour bang for the buck ratio is tremendous!
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yep. I've slowly been trying to fold that info into the site. Si.com has a complete salary listing (not guesstimates, the real #s from the NBA) on their NBA home page.

    The Luxury Tax is $65.42 million. Bear in mind the # posted above does not include Webber's salary which is under a million.

    Indeed. I'm still confused about how we should feel as fans if the Pistons run with such fiscal responibility.

    I suppose, if they are creating room to make moves later, it is excellent. If they never take advantage of their salary position and continue to make cuts, then all of their moves are subject to scrutiny. Sound right?
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is exactly right.

    Isn't our only problem that we are not spending the $ on the free agents? With draft picks and trades, everything is pretty restricted and we've been playing the game fairly well.
     
  20. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    The worst move in the last two season was signing Sheed instead of Okur. Okur is coming up big time clutch for the Mormons while Sheed complains about his ankle and gets T'd up.

    Sheed helped us win in '04 no doubt. But we should not have given him a contract after that but signed Okur instead. But as I recall Sheed was signed and Okur left while Brown was still coach. Sheed was Brown's man all the way, both being North Carolina alumni and Okur is a European and we all know what Brown thinks of European basketball players. Plus Okur thought Brown was a jerk so it is easy to understand why things played out the way they did.

    But it will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

    :gun1:
     

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