2 questions....

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by st8ofmind, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    Are the Spurs almost exactly what you'd like the pistons to be???

    And

    If Darko had fully panned out like a #2 overall is supposed to (in a draft I've seen argued as the best ever) and filled that 'Duncan Role' for us, how close would we be, or if you look at how close we were in 05, how much better would we be?

    I'd say Billups and Parker are basically a wash, each does things the other cannot do, just about equally well.

    Rip and Tay are better as a pair than Bowen and Manu.

    Sheed and Dyess at their worst are as good as bsRob and Elson/Oberto...

    And if we still had Ben (Who I've always wanted to see get a chance to play next to a monster center and be the dirty work PF he really is), how sick would that be?

    Now Insert a legitimate top 3 center pulling that burden off an undersized Sheed/Dyess and what would you have???
    :stirthepot:

    Thanks LB for not playing this kid... Thanks. I guess if you know you aren't going to be around for the long term who cares if you trash it...
     
  2. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Vienna
    Basically, I agree, since I'm a member of the DHOF club- but you have to consider the fact that it was financially impossible to keep Darko, Ben and Sheed altogether. One has to remember that Darko was traded to have enough money for Ben's contract extension.
    So, if Darko would have panned out, JoeD would have faced the ultimate decision between going for Ben or Darko. And Darko would have demanded a near- max- contract if he had panned out the way you describe it.
    But I'm still mad that LB didn't give him the slightest chance. If you think of next season and facing a scenario, in which Nazr or a 34 year old Webber would start at the C position, Darko would be one incredibly nice fit.
    I mean, who wouldn't want a frontcourt of Darko as legitimate C with nice passing skills and a formidable post play, Sheed being able to stretch the game and Tay? I mean, that would have been a huge frontcourt with 5 players on the court that could hit the 3 point shot and 2 amazing shot blockers.
    Not to forget, you'd have promising players (AJ, JMax, #15 pick) coming off the bench.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,576
    Likes Received:
    2,435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    You're joking right?

    This is very intelligent, very fair and very realistic. Excellent post.
     
  4. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    Not even a little.

    Tay is almost as good as Bowen defensively and both are worlds better on D than Manu. Both are better offensively than Bowen and Tay is borderline unstoppable vs any team except the Cavs.
     
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    830
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    watching this team fold like a lawn chair once the going got tough, I don't think having darko pan out would have made a difference. If anything it means that LB developed darko and would still be here.

    People say that Ben was the face of the franchise but really he was the heart. When he wasn't in it, there was no switch. Darko could be a talented player someday but the psyche of this team was CB, BW and LB. CB doesn't really cut the mustard as a leader. A tactician yes. Between him and flip we have that in spades. FOr leadership we got Sheed. yikes.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,576
    Likes Received:
    2,435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I like Tay. But he's nowhere near the class of defender that Bowen is.

    Tay gets by on his athleticism and size.

    Bowen is a pitbull, physical, a little dirty and relentless.

    Both disappear on offense, but you never, ever get the feeling that Bowen is soft. These 3 games against LeBron in the Finals he's been playing monster minutes (40+), limiting LeBron and only averaging 1 foul per game.

    He's an aggressive defender. Tay is a passive defender. And we all know that the aggressor is usually the winner.

    I'd also add that Manu is an underrated defender, and a much bigger shot maker than Rip. He's clutch the way Chauncey likes to think he is.

    Tay was shut down by Manu in 2005. That was embarassing.
     
  7. crumbs

    crumbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Let's not dimish what Duncan has done in the NBA. Even if Darko reached his full "HOF" potential, it's likely he still would not be in the same class as Duncan.
     
  8. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    He 'should' be somewhere between LeBron and Wade in terms of 'ability'.

    Ok lets say he's only 90% as good as Duncan.

    He is taller and left handed and a better shooter...
     
  9. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    Wow, you are really down on this team right now...

    Rip and Tay played way too many minutes in 05'. When LB would do that BS with moving Rip to 3 and bringing in Lindsey, and that was the only rest Tay got.

    How did they all but beat the spurs without HCA and giving away a game in Detroit? Was it Ben Wallace's stellar offense?
     
  10. crumbs

    crumbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    How did you come to this conclusion?



    Darko is better shooter? Are you serious?
     
  11. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    We're basing this on the fact that he was the #2 pick in the best draft ever and should be almost as good as LBJ and better than marshmelo or Wade or Bosh.

    Darko is a better shooter than Duncan, not a big stretch there. Or will be.

    Isn't Darko the same age right now as Duncan was when he was a rook?
     
  12. crumbs

    crumbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    What are you using to judge Darko's shooting ability.

    Duncan has consistently shot over 50% from the field. He's effective from the high and low post, can use the glass effectively, and has been successful even though he sees double teams regularly.

    What makes you think that Darko (as a shooter) can do these things?
     
  13. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    I'm speaking about jumpshooting and shooting with range.

    Inside of 15' Duncan is far superior. And remember we are talking about 'virtual' Darko.
     
  14. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    830
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    to paraphrase joeD, [virtual] darko can do a lot of things. just not in games.
     
  15. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,668
    Likes Received:
    493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    The jury is still out on that. He shown flashes of what he could develop into in this year's playoff series.
     
  16. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    830
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    lets get him back as a free agent.
     
  17. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,668
    Likes Received:
    493
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    And what are the chances of that happening?
    :sssh:
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,576
    Likes Received:
    2,435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    No. I'm realistic in the offseason. We don't have the best player at every position. It is possible to upgrade. Besides, everyone who votes for the defensive teams agree with me. Bowen is a fixture on the 1st team each year.

    I saw Pop play Parker, Ginobili and Barry last night. Small ball is reality. Particularly when your backup for Tay is Darvin Ham and Ronald Dupree.

    I'm much better virtually. I'm taller, have better teeth and never fart. :D

    If Darko promises to never fart, he can come back. But he's also not allowed to explode.

    :flypig:
     
  19. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    196
    Micro,

    We are right there with the Spurs talent wise. Why we don't perform that way is a many-headed problem.

    The Darko draft would have helped but I think other factors weigh in.

    We don't have Popovich or a playoff tested coach. (big factor)

    We didn't add talent for 3 years. (big factor in retrospect)

    Parker can drive Chauncey can't even though against each other is a wash as you say. (rules hurt us more than SA)

    Duncan is steadier than Sheed.

    As you say, Bowen does his defensive job better than Tay. We didn't add a perimeter defender even while losing Ben. (rules hurt)

    We added Nazi for Ben after the Spurs let Nazi go.
     
  20. NTC

    NTC First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Fixed.

    :victory:
     

Share This Page