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20 games with Iverson

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I have to say, that now that AI has been here 20 games, I think we made out like bandits on the trade. The combo of AI + Stuckey, has provided a lot more than Chauncey + Stuckey, because Stuckey would have been limited to coming off the bench, or one of them would have had to play out of position.

    While AI is a 1 in size, he's a natural 2. Can you imagine how dominating AI would be if he was 2 inches taller?

    Anyway, 20 games in, even if the record doesn't reflect it yet, I think we're better this season because Stuckey gets to play more, and the boatload of capspace in the offseason, and AI really does make the game fun to watch.

    No hard feelings to any Billups fans, but watching Chauncey play for 6 seasons had really become a snore fest.
     
  2. yes-sir

    yes-sir First Round Draft Pick

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  3. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    These first quarter leads... its why I am leaning towards saying small ball so to speak can work. I want to see how we play folks the 2nd time around before I make a more solid stance... But I think the AI and Rip can't play together is starting to go away.... if somebody goes to the bench at this point its going to have to be Prince.
     
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    Most striking thing to me is how AI talked about how good he and Rip would be together. It took some time but in the end I guess he knew what he was talking about.

    Biggest thing though is how Stucky is getting his shot. Time tables have been moved up. If he does turn out to be great then we would have had a hard time convincing him to wait it out until CB retired or accepted a bench downgrade.

    Plus, I know some don't want to heat it but I do believe that this trade has re-invigerated Billups. I don't think he would be playing this well for us.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think we've taken on some of AI's toughness. This team seems tougher now. Maybe even a little more aggressive.

    Stuckey's ability to hit the open jumper has made a load of difference for sure.
     
  6. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    2nd This.... and he's had a couple so so games in the last 2 weeks, lets see how he's playing later in the season... AI has played full out his whole career. I wonder if Billups can keep up the fountain of youth or its just a temp bump in his play.
     
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I still don't like the trade, but i feel alot better about it now than i did originally. Maybe it's b/c the small ball is so headache inducing; i don't have any energy left to think about anything else LOL

    Seriously though, i like the team going forward, and hope we learn to use the personnel better.
    They say the team's personality is a reflection of the coach. Maybe that's something Curry is doing right.
     
  8. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    The whole point of the trade was to release Stuck. It's supposed to be his team now
    [just like it was CB's, it'll be a different kind of snorefest, {for those whom winning became a snorefest}] if only the coach would give him the reigns !
     
  9. max

    max All-Star

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    Suppose its the old question of were we spoiled or justified in wanting change? When you tie the NBA record for the most consecutive Conf Finals losses its something to think about.
     
  10. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Ironically, UTAH seems to be us. Steady every year knocked out in the WCF. I wonder how their fans feel.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Head to Head (obviously wins and losses are more important, but still...)

    [​IMG]

    Statistically, looks like a wash to me.
     
  12. explosivity

    explosivity First Round Draft Pick

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    I couldnt agree more ros. It seems to me that we actually are starting to develop an identity and a system with A.I. in place. We have the whole season to "practice with A.I. in the lineup and I really do believe by the all star break or just after we will be a very tough team to beat.

    BTW, chauncey was my favorite piston by far and I still love the trade. The team is more important than any one player and sometimes leaders (joe d) have to make moves that benefit the team both long term and short term even if they are unpopular at the time. Same thing with Curry playing different players and lineups in crucial moments of the game to expose these guys to pressure situations.

    Its not about Ws and Ls right now its about being well prepared to play in the playoffs no matter who we play. I think that is the concept most people are having a hard time dealing with right now. They look at Ws and Ls for the most part and thats all that matters.
     
  13. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    The comparison isn't very apt. Since Stockton and Malone retired/moved on, Utah has only been in the playoffs twice (the past two seasons) and in the WCF just once (two seasons ago).

    Since the Pistons last made the finals, the closest comparison you could make to a western team, in terms of playoff performance, would probably be Phoenix.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Since the Pistons last made the finals, the closest comparison you could make to a western team, in terms of [STRIKE]playoff performance[/STRIKE] style of play, would probably be Phoenix.
     
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    AI out rebounds a guy 3 in. taller !
    Ah, win % please.
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    Plus it was not for lack of effort. One could not accuse them of not being motived or any type of switch. They did not lose games because they were tired or played too many mins.

    I am sure it was frusterating for them but each year they added new pieces and kept trying. They finally had a great team in 96-98 but the Bulls were better.

    I think the last team to lose 3-straight conf finals was back in the 50's or 60's.
     
  17. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

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    I think with the 20 games that he has been here, I have seen some good things with this team that will help in the long run. Like how he gets to the paint and can get fouls from the opposing teams' frontcourt or backcourt, how he is mentally and physically tough in the game and how he put his all out on the court. Also how this team is trying to become as tough as he is and how well they have somewhat adjusted to him. We won't get into the bad things I see that can hurt us in the long run....just to many to talk about.
     
  18. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    In my mind, this is only partially true and less than a third of a full wine glass.

    First, and foremost, it was to get out of huge time frame that would only interfere with flexibility to move via team changes and cap room. They do go hand-in-hand.

    Second, the ability to break a mold that took over this club's perception on how to finish. There was this dependency to feel group comfort and solidarity on finding ways of clouding adaption. To change, does not necessarily mean to embrace the new or to it's opposite, to fight it. It is in a sense to find another route, to plan, analyze and embrace what once worked. All options and this finally dawned on JD, were now closed like so many submarine modules closed because of similar compartments. And you ask why we now have no bench, or to ask who are they? Could be why Curry is throwing everything (in the beginning) sort of topsy-turvy.

    Freud once suggested that if one wished to discover the nature of a hidden impulse, one had only to frame the question in negative form: What does the dream clearly not mean? What is the least likely thing...

    Do you see what he's getting at?
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    One big difference is their eFG's, because CB maintains a higher overall % while shooting a ton of 3's... and still getting to the FT line almost as often in fewer minutes.

    Billups's eFG is .524
    AI is .461.

    So, for every 7 shots they both attempt, CB comes out 1 point ahead. Last game, AI attempted 21+ shots. That 3 point savings on offense would have helped us avoid an OT. Defensively, we may have saved some points too. We'd save about 2 points with the turnover differential between them per game on average.


    Billups currently leads the Nuggets in:
    Production
    Net production
    On court +/-
    Off court +/-
    Roland Rating.

    And it's not by a little. Denver Nuggets NBA stats and data from 82games.com

    He's about as efficient as a PG can be.

    (by the way, Samb is shooting .167 since the trade)

    AI is up there on our team in most of these categories as well. And it's not a coincidence that he is quickly rising in these silly stats as his play has appeared to improve over the last 5 games.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Grieving Cheikh Samb.
     

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