2011 CBA Negotiations Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In the remote possibility that you are actually serious, this would never work.
     
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Then if the league isn't split into two distinct groups, the only other alternative is for players to stay out on strike. They can just go duck hunting...with just a rake...
     
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    Disgust aside on all of this. Both sides really are not that far apart. They were at 44%, 57% BRI and are now 50%, 52.5%. Owners have eased up on the hard cap and are willing to have something similar to the lux tax.

    If they can just keep emotions from boiling over they should get a deal soon. Maybe even ban KG and Dan Gilbert from the negotiations if they are causing so many problems.
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Pistons' Tom Gores 'on the fence' in NBA lockout, L.A. Times says | Detroit Free Press | freep.com


     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    Kind of makes you want to tell him to take his new team and stuff it.
     
  7. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    I truly believe that a big part of the blame for the extended lock out can be placed on the shoulders of Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Melo, etc. By them forcing a trade/signing elsewhere they have made it virtually impossible for mid/small market teams to be successful in the NBA. It seems like the owners that are playing hard ball are the mid market team owners. Since the Pistons are, what I would consider, a mid market team, I hope the lock out lasts as long as it has to in order for there to be a hard cap put in place. I am fearful that the we won't ever be in a position to win a championship again without it. We will draft a few good players and they will want to win immediately after their rookie contract is up and leave. Why can't the NBA just look at the NFL's model and use it? I think most would agree that the average NFL player has a much shorter career then the average NBA player.

    However, if a hard cap is put into place then that would suggest the teams expenses should NOT grow which should either stabilize ticket prices or reduce them. If a hard cap is agreed upon and the owners up the ticket price, then I hope the league suffers!!!

    I find it very interesting that neither the owners or players care about the fans. The only thing they bring up regarding fans is the games being canceled. I bet most hardcore basketball fans can't even afford to see their team play (especially those living in NYC, Miami, LA (Lakers), Boston, etc.). Last year, a co worker and I were looking at going to the Boston/Miami game (regular season) in Miami. Court side tickets were just under 10k EACH!!! Granted they were from stub hub..

    I am on my last nerve with the NBA and it's players. Thankfully college ball starts soon and there are a lot of good freshmen coming in and should be fun to watch (Kentucky, Duke, UNC and Baylor)..

    Does anybody know how the draft order will be determined if the season is canceled? I have emailed a few beat writers with that very question and none of them knew..
     
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Wow, that's a great question. Never even thought about that. Good post, too, DMC.
     
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Nice post DMC. I imagine they would have to use some form of lottery, based on the record of teams over the last 5 years....or something similar...
     
  10. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Probably conduct the lottery as if 2011-2012 didn't exist. Just use the end of 2010-2011 season results and go from there.

    :stirthepot:
     
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The sucky teams would win back-to-back lotteries?
     
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Yes that's a very good point and I have read about that being brought up by the small markets, namely Dan Gilbert but others are fear full as well after that. If it can happen to them then it can happen to anyone type of deal and even though there was some collusion going on the league did nothing. That's the thing, had Stern looked more into it instead of being so happy for the ratings the Heatles would draw then who knows.
     
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't understand how anyone can even remotely side with the owners here.

    I would like to see Tommy Boy be a little more out in front during this lockout when it comes to communicating with the fans.

    Saying a hard salary cap would freeze or reduce ticket prices for the fans is amongst the funniest things I have ever read here.

    Billy Hunter said on Bill Simmons' podcast that Mark Cuban proposed eliminating the salary cap in the recent negotiations. The league came out today and said the idea came from the players side. Someone is lying, but the owners have to be publicly bearish here.

    Billy Hunter also said that the players themselves often wonder why so many bad players (read: Chaz Garbage) get such big deals.

    I've been watching the '93 NBA Playoffs on NBA TV. The games seem so much better than the current swill. I love that era!
     
  14. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I agree with your points here. Just feel the only voice we hear from the owners side is Stern...and he's a baffoon. Comparing basketball now to 20 years ago is painful. The recent move to create super teams is frustrating for me.


    An interesting look at player salaries over the last quarter century...

    Year .........Salary Cap ...........Luxury Tax........... Average Salary .......Mid Level Exception

    2007-08 ....$55.63 Million ........$67.865 Million ....$5.2 Million.............. $5.36 Million
    2006-07.... $53.135 Million .......$65.42 Million ......$5.2 Million .............$5.215 Million
    2005-06 ....$49.5 Million.......... $61.7 Million ........$5 Million ...............$5 Million
    2004-05 ....$43.9 Million ...............NA ...............$4.9 Million .............$4.9 Million
    2003-04 ....$43.8 Million ..........$54.6 Million........ $4.9 Million............ $4.9 Million
    2002-03 ....$40.3 Million.......... $52.9 Million ........$4.5 Million ............$4.5 Million
    2001-02 ....$42.5 Million............... 0................. $4.5 Million .............$4.5 Million
    2000-01 ....$35.5 Million............... 0 .................$4.2 Million .............$2.3 Million
    1999-20 ....$34 Million................. 0 ..................$3.6 Million .............$2 Million
    1998-99 ....$30 Million .................0 ..................$3 Million................ $1.8 Million
    1997-98 ....$26.9 Million ...............0 .................$2.6 Million ...................0
    1996-97 ....$24.4 Million............... 0 .................$2.3 Million ...................0
    1995-96 ....$23 Million ..................0 .................$2 Million .....................0
    1994-95.... $15.9 Million ...............0 .................$1.8 Million ...................0
    1993-94 ....$15.1 Million ...............0 .................$1.5 Million ...................0
    1992-93 ....$14 Million .................0 ..................$1.3 Million.................. 0
    1991-92 ....$12.5 Million ...............0 .................$1.1 Million ...................0
    1990-91 ....$11.9 Million ...............0 ...................$927,000 ...................0
    1989-90 .....$9.8 Million............... 0 ....................$717,000 ...................0
    1988-89 .....$7.2 Million............... 0 ...................$575,000 ....................0
    1987-88..... $6.2 Million ...............0 ...................$502,000 ....................0
    1986-87 .....$4.9 Million ...............0 ...................$431,000 ....................0
    1985-86 .....$4.2 Million ...............0 ...................$382,000 ....................0
    1984-85..... $3.6 Million............... 0 ...................$330,000 ....................0
     
  15. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Just to be clear, I said the tickets SHOULD be reduced or frozen since the expenses of the team would be constant (for as long as the agreement was signed for). Of course, I would expect tickets to go up with inflation, but nothing dramatic. I don't disagree with you, the idea of the league/owners freezing ticket prices is hard to phantom.

    I do side with owners because at the end of the day, they take the biggest risk by purchasing and funding the team. There is no guarantee that the team will profit from one year to the next. It comes down to risk; since they take the biggest risk, they should be in a position to get the biggest reward (talking specifically to the proposed 50/50 split the owners are rumored to be demanding). If the players don't like it they can start/buy their own league (although didn't Zeke try that with the CBA?)

    As for a hard cap, I am all for it. Without it, we will continue to see super teams created. It is a matter of time before we see Dwight Howard leave Orlando and Chris Paul leave NOLA unless something is done to make it more difficult to do. Personally, I think the hard cap is a good preventive mechanism.

    Obviously the players don't want a hard cap because it reduces their potential salary bumps between contracts. So it is absolutely imperative for them that the hard cap is nothing more then talk.

    The average NBA salary has increased 100s of times over inflation, for the same time period, in the last 20+ years. At the end of the day we are talking about a sport (entertainment for the fans), and if it went away we (the fans) would find something else to fill the void...

    With that said, the owners need to be careful as each week passes and games are canceled they lose a casual fan (and the potential revenue). As I stated in my original post, NCAA basketball is starting up so it will fill the void for me. Not to mention the Lions are playing well enough to justify 3.5 hours of my Sunday. Hmm... I think my interest in the NBA is slipping much faster then I originally thought!!
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    I am not siding with anyone on this. Both sides should have settled to avoid a lockout. If anyone is to blame most its Stern for letting it get to this and for over expanding over the years. Now he has teams that can't make it in certain markets demanding more profit sharing which is definetly a factor in all of this.

    I have to admint that it would be nice to have a system where CAP SPACE is not the most valuable piece in a trade. I think its safe to say that even the fans are sick of players demanding long term expensive contracts only to underperform and leave the team holding the bag. I do side with the owners on that point.

    I am all for a hard cap as long as contracts were not set in stone for 5 years.
     
  17. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Max I couldn't agree with you more.
    I am on the side of the owners because they are just trying to protect their investment. All of us have investment (stocks, pensions, 401k, cars, houses, etc) and we all do our best to protect it. I can't fault them for doing something I do..
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    How the NBA lockout compares to other league stoppages

    So the NHL locked the players out to get a 54-57% split which is pretty much what the NBA had before? And the NBA owners are modeling this lockout to the NHL's? Of course the NHL has a hard cap but the NBA is still stuck on BRI where the owners are at 50% and the players at 53% - both below what the NBA owners role models demanded during their lockout.
     
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The owners are protecting their investment when they offer the Charlie G's of the world their 5 yr 35-40 million contracts. They think it is going to help them win.

    The owners then want "protection" in the form of escaping the bad deals they created when reality slaps them in the face. That's not protection, that's a guarantee.
     
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    That's the reality here. The small restaurant owner has an 85% chance of failure within the first two years. He pours his life savings into his idea...only to see it fail for many different reasons. There is no refund from the bank if his idea goes south, nor does the taxpayer pay for his patio dining or extra parking lot.

    It's frustrating when an owner can be stupid, and now expect a free ticket out. No wonder all these guys are billionaires. They know a sure thing when they see it.
     

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