2011 CBA Negotiations Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I believe the rookie scale reduction will meet the least resistance (already got their pie)....
    This could be a record year with kids entering the draft to take advantage of the current deal.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The thing is, rookies by scale make less than the MLE. Even the #1 pick makes less than the MLE in his first year IIRC. That kid is usually a franchise player and future all star.

    This is what unions do when they are backed up against it. They try to negotiate down entry level wages to protect the people with seniority and tenure. The league picks up half of the tab on Chucky Atkins salary, but the next Kobe Bryant is capped in his first 4 years earning at Kwame Brown levels.

    The entire system needs an enema. I don't know the answer, because these guys all want financial security in an uncertain world.

    The real question is, can the NBA afford a lockout, and a hit to their TV revenues? If they can, I think this thing is headed to a work stoppage. If not, we're going to see another patchwork deal like 2005.
     
  3. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So Roscoe, let me get this straight...Are you telling us that we may, in fact, see KGREG playing point for the Minnesota Timberwolves a year from now?
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think the league will pick up half of KGREG's salary. ;)
     
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Stuckey better look out
     
  6. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well, I can already tell that Stuckey has been playing scared...havent the rest of you!?
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Here is a little thought experiment.

    If the league diminishes rookie deals even more, will that create a greater incentive for players to bypass college, go to Europe, and return to the league as free agents?
     
  8. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think that has absolutely entered into many young mens heads as they are coming to that decision in their lifes. Especially after Brandon Jennings has had some success this past year. Get paid in Europe, then get PAID in the US.
     
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That's what Rubio is doing... he'll get his tax free salary including new house & car... then cash in on the NBA after the rookie term is done (loophole in the current CBA)
     
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    The owners are looking at cutting the top 40 salaries in the league. That's only about 6 percent of the players. The cuts would be drastic though with the top contract becoming something like 6 years at 60 million. If the league did this they would save well over 1 billion dollars over the next 6 seasons. Players would EVENTUALLY agree to this since this doesn't affect the vast majority of them, and certainly the fans don't think a 60 million dollar contract is anywhere near the poverty line. The goal now of the owners is to carve up the players union like a roast.
     
  11. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Everything makes so much sense now. Thanks for that thought.
     
  12. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    The NBA players union is done, put a fork in it. In the past, teams were happy to lose money as long as they won, those days are done. Now, teams are looking to the clips and Grizz as the model. If you win, nice, but try and make some money. And even though the Grizz are still losing money, since dumping Gasol et al, they are not losing as much.

    Guaransheed that the players get locked out.
     
  13. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Wish i could write, but I can't. Thankfully there are pros out. Bill Simmons said exactly what I was thinking:
    Bill Simmons: 2010 NBA trade value column - ESPN

    The threat of a 2011 lockout hangs over everything. It's inevitable. It pretty much has to happen. The owners need to be saved from themselves; the players need to realize that they failed to deliver on too many mammoth, long-term contracts, and that one or two clunkers can destroy a franchise for half a decade or more. In the spirit of Clemenza, the two sides will have to go to the mattresses to resolve it. Only this time, David Stern has a trump card in his pocket -- the memory from the 1999 lockout that so many of these millionaire players, as amazing as this might sound, lived paycheck to paycheck. The owners could survive a lockout. The players? That's another story. The owners will win. They always do.
     
  14. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Hopefully this will relate to lower ticket prices.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Not a chance.
     
  16. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    The greatest advantage the owners have is that the NBA Inc. has removed any other real options for employment. Once the players union passed on any deal with Zeke to buy the Continental Basketball Association (CBA Properties) with all it's infrastructure they esentially left themselves defenseless. Given the choice of playing the role of windshield or the bug, the Union chose bug..

    Stern offered Zeke $11M for his league which Zeke refused (he paid $10M in 1999). After which Stern immediately de-fanged the open market by forming the NBA owned NBDL.

    While the owners and the league wring their sweaty palms, it should be noted that they (owners) made the decision to escalate salaries in part to leverage the players. To make sure the players would live such lavish lifestyles there would be no financial way possible for the players to withstand any future strike. Instead it's the owners who will use that lavishness and the income it requires to bring the Union to it's knees.

    I don't feel sorry for the short-sighted players who have commanded outrageous amounts of money and delivered so much in the way of mediocre product.

    Nor do I feel sorry for or believe much of what the owners report as their real income. It's a collusive market that has long taken the paying public for advantage. A market that would've kissed off every average joe blow had they been able to sell out all their seats to corporate suite holders.

    Here's an old piece regarding what the Agents and players were thinking and saying in 1998 before the 1999 talks were to begin, it's the reason Zeke bought the league a year later..

    PRO BASKETBALL - PRO BASKETBALL - To Aid Players, Agents Ponder Forming League - NYTimes.com
     
  17. G-man

    G-man Starter

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  18. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Paging Mr. James - call from Europe on line 3

    Interesting Larry Coon piece on the Players potentially using the euro league to whipsaw the NBA/CBA contract negotiations back on to more equitable ground.

    "Another team executive did not see Europe as a viable threat. “The economics in Europe are just as bad, if not worse than here,” he said. “If a team paid more than the N.B.A., they wouldn’t be in business long.”

    But making less in Europe beats making nothing while locked out of their N.B.A. jobs. The players also stand to lose more money in the long run if they let the owners roll over them in negotiations. They’ll take a financial hit whether they stay or leave — but by threatening to leave en masse, they at least stand to gain a foothold in the negotiations.

    Even without a lockout, the threat of a defection provides some insurance against a deal that tips too far in the owners’ favor. If the parties reach an agreement that severely limits maximum contracts, the high-profile players still might head for greener pastures. No matter how badly the owners want to limit maximum salaries, they need to ensure that the N.B.A. remains more lucrative than the alternatives."

    Foreign Leagues May Be Players’ Trump Card - Off the Dribble Blog - NYTimes.com
     
  19. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Re: Paging Mr. James - call from Europe on line 3

    This is pure garbage. In euroleague there is 5 -8 teams capable of hiring NBA talent for NBA mid level exception(5-6 mil per yr) at best.And even then those teams can't afford more than 3 NBA midlevel salary players.
     
  20. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Ken Berger CBS Sports

    "Based upon our review and what we've done thus far, we dispute the $400 million figure," Hunter, the executive director of the National Basketball Players Association, told CBSSports.com Friday in his first public comments on Stern's doomsday prediction. "And we plan to present our rebuttal to David and the owners at an appropriate time. Our contention is that the number's overstated."

    So nearly a year after the owners and players sat down to get an early start on hammering out a new collective bargaining agreement, they still can't even agree on why they disagree. And there appears to be little hope for bargaining to resume until after the July 1, when owners and players will embark on what is expected to be the biggest free-agent signing period in NBA history without a clue as to how the financial landscape will look going forward.

    "I would hope to submit a proposal to the owners any time between May 1 and July 1, with the idea that we would obviously be available to spend a lot of time negotiating during the summer, when the players are available," Hunter said Friday.

    In the seven weeks since owners submitted their drastic initial proposal -- one that the union says would lower player salaries by $750 million in the first year alone, reduce the length and amount of guaranteed contracts and eliminate most if not all salary cap exceptions -- the union's attorneys and accountants have been reviewing a mountain of financial data turned over by the NBA. The league says these numbers prove how dire its financial position is.

    The players don't buy it, and instead see a mixture of accounting tricks, team mismanagement and the nearly two-year recession as the real culprits in a revenue decline they say is not nearly as large as Stern stated in Dallas."

    Players respond to Stern: Owners' financial losses oversold - NBA - CBSSports.com Basketball
     

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